tutorial for Eye Area and Eyelid ? ...not the eye

[Nikodemus]

you all understand what i am asking? or you need pictures?

[seantree]

man, if you come across any tuts on this area let me know. I'll do the same. I have tons of trouble getting this area correct. good luck, and sorry i was of no help.

[FallenSwordsman]

I usually tend to be okay with eyelids, its just things like noses and the rest of the face that throws me off.
I start off modelling the eyeball (sphere with corneal bulge poking out)
Then I will create about twelve points in the shape of the eyelid in front of that and bevel it out a couple of times.
The next step is to bend the mesh you've created around the ball of the eye. Its best to be patient with this bit because accurately rounding out the rim of the eye to accurately match the eyeball can be tricky. If you're looking for realism, the top eyelid should sit slightly over the corneal bulge so it actually sticks out that little bit more than the lower eyelid as seen from a side-on view. Also make sure that the inner corner of the eye doesn't bend around quite as much as the outer corner. The tear-duct, when correctly placed, should make up for the lack of inner corner rounding.
Usually, at this stage, I will place in the forehead and the nasion and glabella of the nose (the nasion is the dip at the top of the nose, the glabella is the bit above it) then at least you have something to aim at when you're bevelling the rest of the eyelid outward. The top eyelid should curve outwards until it hits the superciliary arch of the forehead.
Remember that the forehead is rounded (you can get some cross-sectional shots of the human head off the web and see exactly how rounded if you like as reference). If you've correctly modelled out the curve of the forehead, then creating the eyelids should be made a lot easier.
The top eyelid also has a crease in it for the skin that comes down over your eye when you close them. I usually add another row of points for this crease and pull them inward into the face. Don't pull it too far though otherwise the eyeball will poke through.
The lower eyelid has a much more subtle crease right underneath it plus, if you feel around your own eye-socket, you should be able to feel where there is a much more prominent crease right under the lower eyelid curving down from near the nasion.
I'm slowly writing a tutorial for all of this including complete anatomical details and anthropometric measurements, but that is still some way off. Might be worth checking out some of the plastic surgery sites on the web as well for anatomical details.
Hope this helps.

[Nikodemus]

wow yeah ! thanks FallenSwordsman ! :)

i will copy paste all this to my resource section so i can have a good read and real time help while i work ! i will have to post up some attempts too that i use for the model im doing !

yeah will definately look into your tut when its done !

thanks for the help :cool: much appreciated

[FallenSwordsman]

Just as an after-thought...what kind of cartoony eyes are you doing? Cartoony eyes tend to be round a la The Muppets or Wallace and Gromit, however you do get some which tend to have more of a oval shape as well. I think the non-round eyes are more difficult to deal with especially when it comes to trying to build an eyelid that can come down over the eye (if the character needs to blink)...but I would definitely recommend building the eyeball first, then creating the eye-socket around it.
Have you got any concept sketches of what you're aiming for? Of course, you could always cheat and build a character where the eyeballs just sit on top of the head without needing sockets

A couple of things I forgot to mention before....although not necessarily useful to modelling a cartoony eye...the eye socket itself should have a rim to it. I usually build this afterwards then move the eye slightly back to accomodate it; this way the eye socket has more depth to it and doesn't look so goofy when looked at from odd angles. Also, if you're looking to build human eyelids, keep in mind the actual boney socket. The outer edge of the eyebrow should line up with the outer edge of the cheek bone, so this will give you a good idea of just where to bend the cheek bone around underneath the eye.

Cheers

:bounce:

[seantree]

Fallen, I'm really lookin forward to that tut. These eyelids are kickin my ass. If I could get around them it'd be smooth sailing. Keep me posted as you progress on that tut. thanks

[FallenSwordsman]

The tutorial itself is only about 50% complete at the moment; I've got a first draft of it so far but there's still a lot I need to tidy up on before I can release it to the expectant world.

Let me turn the question back to you - in a tutorial such as this, what would you like to see?

My idea is to have a full head tutorial (yeh I know, plenty of them around) but I'm breaking it down into sections - eyeballs, eyelids, nose, mouth, ears, cheek etc. However, what I tend to find is that most tutorials don't really pay much attention to anatomy and I think its pretty useful to have a knowledge of anatomy before you get going with the modelling. How can you model something if you don't know its there? Since I'm a Lightwave user, its mainly aimed at Lightwave, but I'm sure anatomical detail will be useful for everyone. On top of that; I've managed to get hold of some anthropometric statistics - average measurements of the human head as well as standard deviations; which I'll also be including. But do people also want something that goes into cartoony looks as well?

[ivo D]

dallenswordsman.. contact me if you will .. msn or mail (ivo_lightning@hotmail.com i am very interested in the tutorial.. and your way of work.. im making my second head now.. maybe i an point out some.. probs that i come along with.. to indicate in your tut

[seantree]

Swordsman, I'd appreciate both realistic and cartoony tuts, or one tut that has a side note about cartoon eyes etc.. The other aspects of your tut sound great. thanks in advance!!

[fabman]

There's plenty of 'around the eye' modeling, mmmm, but quite hard to find just one for the eyelids, I don't know if any of this ones could be useful for you, check them out:

realistic:
http://www.maxoncomputer.com/tutorial_detail.asp?tutorialID=145

cartoonist:
http://canimation.com/tutorT002.html

[FallenSwordsman]

Okay the update since I've kept a bit quiet so far.....
The tutorial is still in the process of being made - somehow I've managed to produce about 60 pages so far and I'm not finished yet, but thankfully most of this is screen captures rather than raw text.
Things covered so far:
Anatomy discussion
Rim of the eye
Upper eyelid crease
Tearduct
Forehead and top of Nose
Upper eyelid

Still to be covered:
Lower eyelid
Cartoon eyelids

So not far to go now guys....

[seantree]

great! looking forward to it :)

[Nikodemus]

hello! :wavey: im back at school now.. after a 17 hour drive and days of unpacking etc etc..
more replies oh boy :)

thank you guys.. now i must start concepts for my CGchallenge... im so far behind ACK

look for a wip challenge sometime soon :cool:

[FallenSwordsman]

Sorry for the delay on the tutorial guys - just started back at work again and so I can only realistically work on tutes at the weekends. Hopefully shall have something completed by the end of the weekend though.

[ivo D]

oke dont worry..take your time.. it just has to be good.. :)

your the one who's putting all the effort in it..

*is that special??!* - yes it is hehe..caus if it wernt than 99999 other good 3d artist would make tuts to..

and than we wouldnt have this crap of grabbing in the dark to learn the know how..:)

so good luck to you.. and may your tut come out the way you wanted it to be..

I cant wait...

[gnarlycranium]

Oooh, this could be awesome. I'll be watching for the results here, FallenSwordsman-- and that idea of providing average head measurements is GREAT. Knowing the basic relative scale of things is really important, especially when you're trying to work from photographic reference and need to figure out how big to make the reference templates you're working from. Size problems can screw up EVERYTHING down the road.

[FallenSwordsman]

Okay, eyelid tutorial now sorta complete although I could probably keep tweaking it until the cows come home. Now all I have to do is find somewhere to stick a 12MB pdf - sorry its so big but I prefer to have things detailed. Oh and its a bit Lightwave-centric too, but I'm sure others can use it.

Measurements have been taken from a free publication from the UK Department of Trade and Industry.

[ivo D]

12 mb//aah man dont worry...

3d total or some other sites.. i think day woul like to provide you the disk space...

and lightwave..pff..well i hate that ab..but .. oke im sure of it that i and others can use it to :-)

[gnarlycranium]

I don't know of good webspace myself, I'm bumming it off a friend, but I can ask around-- good to hear you got it done, looking forward to seeing it!!
:thumbsup:

[ivo D]

start an ftp to set it up..

let people download it..

than other with there own 3d site can..ad it to there stuff for others to download to.. bet your name and email is somewhere in the pdf...so than all is allright..concerning the copyright..

otherwise buy some webspace..it aint expensive a domain..

30euro a month.. for 250 mb.. lower costs is possible

[seantree]

damn, no webspace here or i'd offer to host. hope you find hosting soon. can't wait to take a look at this tut

[FallenSwordsman]

Hi all

No cartoony eyelids yet (still working on that bit) but the main tutorial is at:

http://users.wmin.ac.uk/~brownp1/eyelid.zip

Not even a webpage I'm afraid, just a downloadable file. I'm not going to leave it there for too long because its stuffing up my account a bit, but hopefully when I've taken it down, I'll have something better to show for it.

Cheers

[ivo D]

its looks oke.. but the part..uhmm..where your tear drops come out..you know..

that part doesnt look good at all

maybe you shouldl ook into that..for the rest..it looks really oke

[FallenSwordsman]

yeh, I have played around with the tearduct a bit, I could bevel it out a bit but it gets difficult to explain in pics. It should look better with a texture as well. Maybe its time for a bit of a reworking!

[ivo D]

srry for my comment.. i think it is.. hard enough to get such worked out tutorial finished.


but maybe coppy the tearduct shape you have now..and make it separate..with some more polys.. get a close picture or look in the mirror.. it doesnt matter if it takes 30 min to modell.. caus eyes are the most important thing..

eyes say it all.. and a bunch or tri's there doesnt matter..so just slice away on the tearduct

[FallenSwordsman]

Yeh, I'm not overly fond of three point polys myself because they can lead to pinching. As I say, selecting the poly and bevelling it may be an improvement because at least it gives it a bit more depth, but you're right, might need a lil work yet :)

[ivo D]

oke i toyed a little..mostly i dont make the tearduct..

but i looked in the mirror..and this is about it..

it could be a little better but i used your poly..

just let the two lines go over it from the eyelid.. youll get 3 polys than.. (and use the last extruded row of polys that go inword..to make the tearduct.. caus it lyes deep in the eyes..

than just extrude the middle..en move it down a little..
mostly its allmost in the middle ..it can also be at the botom..of the eye..

well with some wet texture and a little bump..it will look oke i think..

[ivo D]

this an oke tut to.. i think.. saw it when surfing the web

http://www.primadonnas.co.uk/3D_WebSite_Tree/Nose.htm

[FallenSwordsman]

Good job so far Ivo!

I've actually done a bit of a nose tutorial myself - again its one of those incomplete things that will eventually grow, but I can post that somewhere if you want...

[ivo D]

yea post it plz.. than ill look into it.. there is a nice nose tut on 3d total but its splines..best way is poly by poly modelling i guess..

but yea post it plz do..

im sick now..got the flue:(..baaah..so im off to bed again..swetting like hell baah

[seantree]

just checked this thread and found the link swordsman. grabbin the tut now. thanks for your hark work and time :) appreciated.

[FallenSwordsman]

Thanks all - I'm still working on tutes at the mo - the nose will be put up this week (forgot to bring it to work today) one word of warning about the nose as it stands - the nostrils are slightly too wide but that's easily repaired. When I've got everything the way I like it, I'll probably stick them all up on my own website - but its all going to take time.

[Pauldls]

any chance someone could put it up somewhere ?

:)

[FallenSwordsman]

Ha ha - I still have all of this in an unfinished form. Over the last few weeks I've been studying hard for exams - now I've got those out the way, I'm back on track with the tutorial. I'm still a bit reticant to release stuff in an unfinished form though - I think I'm on something like third draft at the moment and its a lot improved over second and first draft. I'll see what I've got in place tonight and see if its worth sticking somewhere.

Cheers!

[cat_dancing]

i am sure some of you guys saw it.....

joe buzz hv a great vtm( video training movie) on modeling the eyelid with preparetion to amination and methods how to twig the mesh to the right place using the reference image.

its for max but its 3d fondemental so it can be use on any aplication


great tutorial its highly recomended
look for 3dbuzz site

[ivo D]

you mean the alien right.. ?

but that aint much help.. and its really easy.. we are going for photorealism.. anatomicly correct human eyes..with eyelids lashes etc..that is much harder

i hope this tut will show an easy method..
i followd the draft to check it out..and its pretty oke.
kindah the same as i do it in max.. only how the forhead is created ,is very irritating

[cat_dancing]

if that can help

go to Lunatique home page
he posted there few images of his princes ruu mesh befor smoothing whice makes a great reference for how a great cleen human head looks like

http://www.enchanted.prohosting.com/3d/ruu/ruu.htm

[krisippa]

Can we have that tute up somwhere? it sounds really cool.

[Mikp11]

Try the teoretical Sub-D thread in the max scetion. 3DZealot had a good technique for making eye sockets. He used a cylinder with 3 cap segments, then deleted the central faces of the cap and all the other faces to leave a a one side circle with the center faces removed. He then placed a sephere in the center and deformed the cap to fit the circle.

Here's a link the example image he posted.

http://www.cgtalk.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=373067

and here's a link to the start of the thread.

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40373

The thread is max specific but there is loads of stuff there that can help no matter what app you are using.

MP

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.