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Taoizm
05-03-2006, 02:54 PM
Who's tried it? What kind of results are you getting? Is it worth the expense? Discuss amongst yourselves. :)

http://www.nvidia.com/page/gelato_download.html


Looks interesting to me so when time permits I'll be checking it out.

DangerousCliff
05-03-2006, 03:51 PM
oops, should have looked here first... posted this in the main forum in my haste.

i read it last night, rushed in this morning to install it here at work- don't have a Quadro at home.

so far, i've been able to lock/crash max with it. it does not seem to like it when the material editor is set to Ammeretto.

once again, in my haste, i jsut pulled up a scene i was working on yesterday (20 min render in MR) to test, and immediately crashed out.

looks like i'll take my own (and countless others) advice and go RTM...

P.S. from re-reading your post, i noticed you asked about the cash. the Gelato 2.0 has a free version, that looks to have just a few minor limitations (multithreading and tech support most notably missing). the free version is licensed for commercial use, so there is no reason to DL the free one and try it out- put it through production- buy it when you need multithreading and tech support. :)

SoLiTuDe
05-03-2006, 07:06 PM
SWEEET!!! This is great -- I was waiting for Amaretto to come out so I could try it... but this is great. I've had my quadrofx (midrange) for a few years now, and this is great... I can't wait to try it. (in a few minutes)

I wonder what will happen if somebody tries to use it on a soft-modded card...? I have a friend that will try it probably...

SamSed
05-03-2006, 07:25 PM
Will it work with ATI graphic cards ??

i don't use ATI though, just out of curiosity.

SoLiTuDe
05-03-2006, 07:27 PM
nada -- It's made specifically for quadro fx cards

JohnnyRandom
05-03-2006, 07:37 PM
I wonder what will happen if somebody tries to use it on a soft-modded card...? I have a friend that will try it probably...

It is supposed to work with some of the cards in the geforce range

Compatible NVIDIA GeForce boards
Gelato can be run on the following hardware in lieu of NVIDIA Quadro FX. Note that Gelato Pro is not certified or supported on these boards:

GeForce 7800 / 7800 GS / 7800 GT / 7800 GTX / GTX 512
GeForce 7300 LE / 7300 GS
GeForce 6800 / 6800 XT / 6800 XE / 6800 LE / 6800 GT / 6800 GS / 6800 Ultra
GeForce 6700 XL
GeForce 6600 / 6600 VE / 6600 LE / 6600 GT
GeForce 6500
GeForce 6200 / 6200 LE / 6200 SE TurboCache™ / 6200 TurboCache™
GeForce FX 5950 Ultra
GeForce FX 5900 / 5900 Ultra
GeForce FX 5800 / 5800 Ultra
GeForce FX 5700 / 5700 VE / 5700 LE / 5700 Ultra
GeForce FX 5600 / 5600 XT / 5600 Ultra
GeForce FX 5600
GeForce FX 5500
GeForce FX 5200 / 5200 LE / 5200 Ultra
GeForce Go 7800 GTX
GeForce Go 6800 / 6800 Ultra
GeForce Go 6600
GeForce Go 6200/6400

SamSed
05-03-2006, 07:38 PM
wait a sec , it's says not only for the Quadro FX cards but also , the standard cards up from 5200 version, here's the list

Certified and Supported NVIDIA Quadro FX boards
Gelato Pro is certified and supported on NVIDIA Quadro FX graphics hardware. The complete list of certified and supported boards is as follows:




NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4400
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4000 / 4000 SDI
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4000
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3400
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3000 / 3000 G
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3000
NVIDIA Quadro FX 2000
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1300
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1100
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1000
NVIDIA Quadro FX 700
NVIDIA Quadro FX 600
NVIDIA Quadro FX 500
NVIDIA Quadro FX 540
NVIDIA Quadro FX 330
NVIDIA Quadro FX Go1400
NVIDIA Quadro FX Go1000
NVIDIA Quadro FX Go700
Compatible NVIDIA GeForce boards
Gelato can be run on the following hardware in lieu of NVIDIA Quadro FX. Note that Gelato Pro is not certified or supported on these boards:


GeForce 7800 / 7800 GS / 7800 GT / 7800 GTX / GTX 512
GeForce 7300 LE / 7300 GS
GeForce 6800 / 6800 XT / 6800 XE / 6800 LE / 6800 GT / 6800 GS / 6800 Ultra
GeForce 6700 XL
GeForce 6600 / 6600 VE / 6600 LE / 6600 GT
GeForce 6500
GeForce 6200 / 6200 LE / 6200 SE TurboCache™ / 6200 TurboCache™
GeForce FX 5950 Ultra
GeForce FX 5900 / 5900 Ultra
GeForce FX 5800 / 5800 Ultra
GeForce FX 5700 / 5700 VE / 5700 LE / 5700 Ultra
GeForce FX 5600 / 5600 XT / 5600 Ultra
GeForce FX 5600
GeForce FX 5500
GeForce FX 5200 / 5200 LE / 5200 Ultra
GeForce Go 7800 GTX
GeForce Go 6800 / 6800 Ultra
GeForce Go 6600
GeForce Go 6200/6400




and for the ATI's i think it won't work too



edit: yay , beaten !

SoLiTuDe
05-03-2006, 07:41 PM
seems pretty buggy -- lots of maxscript errors just when pressing buttons, so I have yet to enable GI, though I can render if don't touch anything.... and I've crashed max quite a few times. I'm using Max 8 SP3... if that has anything to do with it....

Tried again after a fresh restart -- looks like there won't be any gi for me... "--Unknown property: "setBoolProperty" in <Interface:Amaraetto>"'


Edit: That's sweet about the geforce cards! They really try and push the quadro part on people =)

Also -- looks like any of the setBoolProperty lines in the maxscript (a lot of the "enable" buttons" don't work for me for some reason... guess I'll have to wait till the next build to come out to use any of the "advanced" features like GI

SamSed
05-03-2006, 07:48 PM
working fine for me ,using max7 and geforce 6600 GT , i just hit the render button (render directly to Gelato) no tweaking

SamSed
05-03-2006, 07:59 PM
you're right about that setBoolProperty bug thingy . maybe Bobo can give us some hints :)

SoLiTuDe
05-03-2006, 08:01 PM
if anybody is having the same issue I am: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=14055&hl=setboolproperty

DangerousCliff
05-03-2006, 08:44 PM
i spent about an hour locking/crashing max this morning- Max8 sp3, Quadro FX 3000 (installed the very latest drivers as recomended in the sys req)

after reading the help files, i've gotten Gelato standalone to work, just not Ammeretto... i too keep getting the SetBoolProperty


ehhh.. deadlines mean i'm Mental Ray's boy today... can't wait for the weekend!

SoLiTuDe
05-03-2006, 08:52 PM
it's a real quick fix with the amaretto setbool property... just do what it says on the nvidia forum

i got it to work, but obviously since it's a beta it's going to be prone to problems... I can't get the envlight to work worth a damn -- looks horrible and I don't know what if any settings to change to make it work... here are my renders so far =)

Gi Off http://innersolitude.com/GelatoGi1.jpg
GI ON:http://innersolitude.com/GelatoGi2.jpg
GI ON + EnvLight:http://innersolitude.com/GelatoGi3.jpg

DangerousCliff
05-03-2006, 09:12 PM
yeah, quick fix. so i'm not getting the SetBoolProperty error anymore, thanks!


i still can't get a render. if i hit render directly to gelato, it just hangs at 0% render indefinitely. actually, it does that no matter what "render" button i hit.

and then, if i try to preview a Gelato material in the medit, it gives me an error saying that "the current production render is not set to amaretto. do you want to set Amaretto as the current renderer?"

if i say no (knowing that Amaretto IS the currently set renderer) it goes on not doing anything, if i say 'yes' then it tries to set Amaretto to the current renderer and promptly bombs. i think it does this because it list it as "Amaretto (Beta)" in my list of renderers, and not simply "Amaretto" or whatever its looking for, i think "AmarettoRenderer" from the look of the error.

but i'm not a gear head scripter, so i could be totally off base...

SoLiTuDe
05-03-2006, 09:15 PM
dunno... I had that issue come up once, but I restarted max, and haven't seen it since. So if you just open up max, make a plane, and a sphere then set your renderer and hit render, will it render?? (without opening the mat editor?) what version of max u using?

DangerousCliff
05-03-2006, 09:25 PM
nope, just hangs. i've even tried rebooting...

i can hear the fan on my Quadro card speed up when its trying to go though :)


max8 sp3, Quadro 3000 latest drivers.

Update:
about one in three tries to render Norton pops up to tell me it blocked a worm- i.e. amaretto sending info to Gelato.

so, i've added both to the exclusions list, and have even completely disabled my virus protection, but it still hangs. i really thought it might have been Norton for a second- i mean, Norton is my arch nemesis when it comes to network renders...

DangerousCliff
05-03-2006, 09:31 PM
my technical issues aside, i would be really interested in hearing some actual numbers from users.

Scene A took X amount of time to render in e.g. MR, and Y ammount of time in Gelato...

SoLiTuDe
05-03-2006, 09:42 PM
ditto about rendertimes and images -- but i gotta figure out how to work this crap first... i'm really curios about the gi and lighting (sorbetto would be sweet, but i don't think this free version comes with it) ... the shaders look like fun... but a nightmare at the same time. We'll see!

havokzprodigy
05-03-2006, 09:46 PM
Can somone point me in the direction of a gallery of renders of Gelato.
So far I havn't seen anything even remotly impressive but maybe I missed something. I have seen the gallery on Nvidia.com.

SoLiTuDe
05-03-2006, 09:57 PM
the one on nvidia's website is the only one i know of as well -- There isn't anything amazing in there, but hopefully that will change soon now that they've made it freely available. The idea behind it is probably a little more impressive -- it actually uses the GPU in conjunction with the CPU to render the images, no longer does the gpu ONLY do the viewport stuff.. It should in theory (hopefully it will) prove to be fast with the GPU's haulin' so much ass.

Myliobatidae
05-04-2006, 12:28 AM
could someone post the corrected maxscript, I'm still getting the setbool thing, and I've changed a whole bunch already, kind of tedious...thanx

SoLiTuDe
05-04-2006, 01:15 AM
I just used replace... worked really well in wordpad. Anywho... i would post them if i could get into my damn ftp... but it's not working very well right now...

edit... took me 5 minutes... but i'm in! http://www.innersolitude.com/amarettoscripts.zip

extract to C:\Program Files\Frantic Films\Amaretto\scripts and make a backup of your old ones first! I take no responsibility for it not working correctly! :deal:

Myliobatidae
05-04-2006, 03:26 AM
Thank you, Thank you, and thanx for the tip about wordpad, never knew about replace, pretty cool !!!

SamSed
05-04-2006, 04:35 AM
it says TheManager -> GetImageInfo crashed , possibly due to c:\DOCUMEN~1\..............\temp\amaretto_preview.tif being corrupt
iget this error for every slot in the MatEditor and then it just freezes max.
any idea?

Myliobatidae
05-04-2006, 04:56 AM
Yes, change the medit renderer to scanline in the assign renderer dialog...

So I've been playing around and am doing something wrong I would imagine, I switched on GI and got a really awful pic...so I raised the global shading quality rate and it did improve, but not much, and it took like 30 min. to render, not exactly a race car...so I must be doing something totally wrong, if anyone knows the solution it would be great to know, thanx

SoLiTuDe
05-04-2006, 06:48 AM
heh... this is too much fun trying to figure out this BS =) are you using the "envlight" ? or what for the lighting? I used the envlight and it looked like that too... hopefully they add a real skylight real soon or the ability to use the photometric lights

JeffPatton
05-04-2006, 01:22 PM
I had a halfway decent looking render going, but it was painfully slow with the high settings I used so I had to stop it.

So, I know it's using my video card to render...but it also uses the CPU as well right? Well, in my tests it appears to only be using one CPU. I tested it on a dual hyperthreaded Xeon system (normally appears to have 4 CPU's with hyperthreading enabled). The CPU performance task manager showed a 25% CPU load when I would hit render. Soooo, is there a setting I missed to enable multi-threading with Amaretto/Gelato? Maybe that's simply disabled in this free version.

andrewjohn81
05-04-2006, 02:03 PM
it looks to me that the free version will only use one thread. You have to pay for it to use more than that.

If they are smart they will just give it all away free until they have a following. Then start paying for new features. Most companies limit size or something, not your processing power. It's hard to know the real power that way.

Myliobatidae
05-04-2006, 02:29 PM
It has to be a simple adjustment of some settings, because any renderer out there, even at its highest settings wouldn't have taken that long or come out with such bad results, so I have confidence I will get much better results as soon as I figure it out, I mean its being marketed for its speed and quality, unlike Maxwell which you know right from the beginning that its going to take a while...I wonder how much of a difference its going to make betwwen my 6500 and someone elses 7900...

DangerousCliff
05-04-2006, 02:45 PM
I had a halfway decent looking render going, but it was painfully slow with the high settings I used so I had to stop it.

So, I know it's using my video card to render...but it also uses the CPU as well right? Well, in my tests it appears to only be using one CPU. I tested it on a dual hyperthreaded Xeon system (normally appears to have 4 CPU's with hyperthreading enabled). The CPU performance task manager showed a 25% CPU load when I would hit render. Soooo, is there a setting I missed to enable multi-threading with Amaretto/Gelato? Maybe that's simply disabled in this free version.

yeah, the free version is not multithreaded- the Pro version ($1500/license) is fully multithreaded, and network capable.

if you are only getting 25%, then you might want to temporarily disable hyperthreading on your Intel chip for these test- at least that way you'll get at least one full processor.

anyone seen any tutorials?

DangerousCliff
05-04-2006, 02:51 PM
well, i finally got it to render. now, i did two things (i know, only one thing at a time when bug squashing, but i got impatient) i uninstalled everything, then re-installed. and i switched my monitor setup.

the Gelato documentation says that dual monitors will really slow it down that you should switch to using "span" mode when using multi monitors. i ran the Gelato test program, and it warned me endlessly about my monitor setup, so i switched to span on my monitor.

apart from some oddness in that setup, general work-flow issues, i can now get a render. i think that the dual monitor setup might have been slowing it down, though its hard to believe that i could go to lunch and come back and it still be hanging on 0% render... that slow from the monitor setup?

Myliobatidae
05-04-2006, 03:11 PM
Well I'm not all that disappointed about the multithreaded thing, after all the power of this thing is supposed to be in the GPU, which has to count as at least another processor, in fact the way people used to talk about the idea of using the GPU, that it would be far superior to the CPU in terms of raw power...

So if that is not the case I will have lost nothing really, except a little time...

Daniel-B
05-04-2006, 07:29 PM
Well, I must say I'm quite impressed. I did some motion blur tests last night, and man, Gelato renders true 3D motion blur MUUUCCCCHHH faster than mental ray. It was awesome. It also preserves highlights during motion blur, giving them a realisitc streak through the motion.

I also tried to do some sub surface scattering tests, but my object just rendered pure white. It looked like an alpha channel, ha ha.

Now, alot of it is still very buggy, but I do see the potential for this to be a fine product. They just need to fix the bugs on Armaetto, and it will be awesome.

DangerousCliff
05-05-2006, 12:03 AM
before i go home and pour a glass of Disaronno (the amaretto i have a true grasp of...) i thought i would post some renders, render times, and the quick max scene i made for the test.

the "target" scene was rendered in MR, with caustic photons set to default, and FG with 100 samples 3 bounces. total render time, 2:28 on a dual Opteron 2.2 GHz w/ 2 GB ram, Quadro 7000.
i used MR shaders for the metal and glass, and a MR area spotlight.

the Gelato rendered image came in at 2:17 a frame, and looks, well like i don't have a clue what i'm doing... :)
i replaced the MR glass and metal with GSO glass and metal, and used a standard spotlight.

feel free to use the attached max scene to tweek and play- and post results and times.

amaretto test max scene (http://www.leapoffacliff.com/cgtalk/amarettoscene.zip)

Myliobatidae
05-05-2006, 05:35 AM
So has anyone using Maya got any info, it seems that the Max implementation is not yet together, but its on version 2.0 so it must be working somewhere with some software, right ?

SoLiTuDe
05-05-2006, 06:08 AM
I tried it with maya (mango) -- and it worked fine. Amaretto seems like more of a beta than anything right now.... but it still works. Amaretto also seems to have more options, but I didn't really go too into detail with either yet. I really wonder how Frantic Films have applied in their pipeline and whether they actually use it for production rendering or not yet.

tecsun
05-05-2006, 07:47 AM
I tried to uninstall it today (don't really like it) but the installer cannot clean it from my system. My max & maya both retained its path and give me error when startup. I've fixed max but maya still have problem. Can point me how to clean it completely in maya?

Myliobatidae
05-05-2006, 01:51 PM
I tried it with maya (mango) -- and it worked fine. Amaretto seems like more of a beta than anything right now.... but it still works. Amaretto also seems to have more options, but I didn't really go too into detail with either yet. I really wonder how Frantic Films have applied in their pipeline and whether they actually use it for production rendering or not yet.

I am assuming that mango should show up in the choices for renderer, but it doesn't for me, it does show up in the plugins, and has been checked to load and auto load...you don't sound overly impressed by Gelato and Maya...

Menge
05-05-2006, 10:18 PM
For those of you with "low samples" problem, go to the Raytracing/Global Illumination/SubSurface Scattering panel and increase the samples on the Occlusion section. throw it up to 64 or 128 :)

this thing isn't quite as good as I thougth it'd be. at least on my FX5200 :( the Amaretto plugin doesn't integrate that well with Max's settings... the material editor feels slooooooow when editing things. the Gelato engine might be good... but the Amaretto max integration is VERY precarious right now... pre-alpha stage :\

gonna do some tests if I'm able to produce some meaningful "benchmarks", I'll post back

Myliobatidae
05-06-2006, 04:28 AM
Thanx for the tip, it would have taken a long time to narrow down that parameter, its still not great but it does render much faster and better...

SoLiTuDe
05-06-2006, 06:50 AM
I am assuming that mango should show up in the choices for renderer, but it doesn't for me, it does show up in the plugins, and has been checked to load and auto load...you don't sound overly impressed by Gelato and Maya...

Hehe... well so far Gelato definetly seems like it should be free... of course it's beta, but I guess we'll just have to get used to it and see how good it really is :) It's really too soon to say much, especially because amaretto is a beta and well.. there really isn't a whole lot of documentation like there is for Mental Ray or Vray especially.... Gelato is still under-developed i think... but so was vray and brazil and whatever when they first came out. I'm looking forward to watching it progress! GPU's haul ass... so it should be interesting... In fact when i found out they were giving it away for free i nearly pissed myself i was so happy -- being able to use the gpu to render. When i first heard about I didn't think they'd ever do a public version at all.

As for Maya... it's alright, but I'm definetly more of a max guy... still getting used to some of the stuff in maya. I say all the things about maya that maya guys say about max. :) I'm not one of those anti-maya peeps for sure... i respect it and it occasionaly respects me back. The mango interface in maya seems quite a bit cleaner layed out too. I'm glad they kept the same terminology between mango and amaretto... at least seems like it. Like with mental ray a few things i had to figure out between the two... but no biggie (like accuracy in maya vs max number of photons per sample in max) at least i think that's the two that are probably the same...? I dunno...

Oh yeah -- it should show up in your choices for renderer and there should also be a gelato toolbar. .. i didn't have to do anything either -- i just installed it and the everything showed up like it's supposed, so that's wierd that it's not workin for ya.



Menge -- i think it goes slower in the material editor because it actually has to send it out of program then bring it back in... kind of like when you hit render it opens up the image viewer app. I think it uses the same interface (semi out of program) to render the material previews. actually a quote from the help file "A MAXScript Function Publishing Interface has been developed in MSVC++ to provide an Abstraction Layer between 3ds max and Gelato." so it seems like there's more to it than something like the mr connection or a built in plugin. -- and thanks for the tip!

Edit... in the help file under gso shader preview
"Currently, the sample rendering is a bit slow.It is recommended to disable the feature unless really needed. In addition, the Update Active Only option in the Material Editor Options could be checked to avoid updating all 24 samples."

Daniel-B
05-12-2006, 09:14 PM
So I guess people gave up on this, eh? I can't get it to work correctly either.

DangerousCliff
05-15-2006, 12:10 AM
well, i tried Menge's suggestion of upping my samples and still got the exact same results out of my render...

tight deadlines at work have meant that i don't get a chance to try to figure it out there, and i have an ATi card at home...

so, i'll just have to wait till the beta-bugs are squashed, and those that seem to have endless time to tinker with new settings come out with some suggestions.

its disappointing- i really wish i had time to play with it.

SoLiTuDe
05-15-2006, 03:29 AM
hehe yeah -- I already gave up. Until it's fully featured and actually has speed enhancements that are noticable WITH quality then I see no reason for myself to use it. :)

robotman757
06-24-2006, 02:41 AM
I have set my display driver to opengl (not that that matters) and I have rendered several scenes with the default scanline renderer and then the gelato through the amaretto plugin and it is extremely faster (very very very faster!!) than the scanline renderer. The only issues so far are the scenes that have a dreamscape plugin. I am looking into that to see if I can find out what the problem is there...I know it says it should not work, but I have not been one to always believe that and I can always reload if I really mess up!! I am curious about a few things though...For me I just select ameretto from the assign renderer section and then click the render button and it always says my maps are not found. Not sure where to put the maps. Also I guess I do not know where the meterial editor gelato thing is either or maybe I am just blind. This is on an xp 64 bit system with 3 gigs ram athlon 64 x2 4200+ with an ATI X800 256mb pci express card. Any thoughts...

SoLiTuDe
06-24-2006, 09:34 PM
The material editor for gelato is just the material editor in max. As for you using an ATI card you said you've rendered with it? I don't see how as gelato is said to specifically not work with ati cards especially since it's made by nvidia... but that's crazy if it does!

robotman757
06-24-2006, 09:40 PM
Yeah I see what you mean. Yes, I am using it on an ATI Radeon and it works a lot faster with scenes that have no plugins. I can not get it to work with scenes that have plugins..I do have a lot more work to do as I am just starting out with this and really trying to learn how to model...

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