Animation: Handstand anim.

[Chan]

Hmm... I like it. But it isn't perfect. A couple of times the creatures' hand and foot went through the floor. Sometimes it seemed that one of his hands wasn't on the ground but it was supposed to be. And one time his head went through his arm.

[pigbelly]

I will fix

/Tommie

[XerC]

Looks good so far.
Maybe it's due to the camera's position but everytime he waves his arm, he is totally out of balance and should fall onto the floor.
Hm. Understood, what I mean? :shrug:

Greetings,
XerC

[pigbelly]

Well..I understand what you mean but I don't agree:-))
I don't "feel" the problem!!

is it the first hand thing or the second??

/tommie

[XTitan]

I love this type of animation. I think everything is great, except there are times when both the knees are bent excessively and it looks very unstable. Try to streighten them a bit more. I think it's very possible to wave and stay in a handstand but you have to try and transfer the weight over the hand that's on the ground so that there is a balance. I've done a lot of handstands and I know pretty much what you can and can't do. Overall, it's a very good attempt and it went quite well except for a few things. Very good work.

I'm thinking maybe you can make him breakdance next. I'd love to see that. Go to www.breakdance.com and check out some videos under the MOVES section. And once you're done I'll look it over to see if it runs smoothly, cause I'm a BBOY myself and know how almost all the moves should look.

Great work keep it up.

[XerC]

is it the first hand thing or the second??

I think it's a "whole body problem". As long as only one hand has contact with the ground, the other hand has to be placed in the middle of the body in order to avoid a fall, right? I think ther is too much time in which the character neither moves, nor is in balance.

Argh! It's hard to explain in words (and in another language;) )
I'll just show you, what I mean:

The right pic shows what I think you did. The body is without balance and it is rather obvious that it will fall.
In the right image the character is more or less in balance. (It's very exaggerated, i see now) It looks more natural.
http://home.arcor.de/x.e.r.c/balance.JPG

What do you mean? I'm not a character animator (yet) so don't rate my oppinon too high :D

Greetings!

[pigbelly]

I see your point here!
This is a camera view problem!! I have been very careful about the line of balance....
And been checking it now for 30min and the bugger is in balance!! But that’s no excuse, it has to look right.....I will look careful at it again and decide what to do.-))

I have fixed the hand…had some very big problems with my rig, the hand moved around by it self when I moved my Polevector Constraints!!!!
I did a panic rebuild and it works like a charm…thanks for pushing me in the right direction!!!

/Tommie

[XerC]

Hi! Me again!:wavey:

I've watched the animation for about five times now, and everytime I like it more!
I would be glad if you'd answer some of my questions, for I'm thinking about starting character animation myself...
1.How did you come so far. I mean: did you read books (if so: can you give me the title(s) of a/some good one(s)?) or did you learn it at school? Or everything just learning by doing?
2.How long are you doing CA now?
3.What programs do you use for the animation?

Thanks. :)

[pigbelly]

Books..
All you can get your hands on but formost 2D animation books they rule!!
The animators survival kit, super book!!!!!!!!


I have been animating 3D characters for about 3-4 years now!
Something that i feel was very useful for me was my comic illustrator skill...it has givien me a sense of poseing I thing.


I use Maya but started out in Max....

XTitan:
BreakDance is a wonderful idea!!!


/Tommie

[XerC]

Thanks Tommie!

I think, I'll just start animating :rolleyes:
By the way: I've seen your website. Great suff man! You really have skills! The painted images are awesome and the cow animation is just perfect (laughed my ass off :beer: )

Greetings

[webfox]

It works as far as a cartoony handstand walk goes. I do like it and I love how he lands, flips his arms and walks out of the shot. Really excellent there.

As far as the realism of the walk, though, there are some things to keep in mind...

(I used to practice gymnastics and no, my avatar is not a picture of me...)

The picture attached is a frame where the handstand is irrecoverable. Frame 176, I believe. Both elbows are bent and he's way off balance, even if the feet are counterbalancing, it would take way too much strength to keep up. He'd likely sink to his chin and fall out of the stand at this point.

To me, most of the animation looks like he's got a rope tied to himself to keep from falling down... like he's held up and the wire has been removed in post production by an effects editor.

People trying to walk on their hands usually hold their bodies very rigid and the direction of their motion leads with their heels. The legs shouldn't swing about so, though if they do, the hips will be pulled to a spot midpoint between the feet as the mass of the legs pull the overall mass of the body around.

One arm must be locked at all times as the arms are much weaker than the legs and cannot be bent while supporting the full weight of the body. Xerc's drawing is correct. The supporting arm must be much straighter and under the center of mass. Only when both hands touch the floor can both elbows be bent.

I looked it over in a video editor and here's my breakdown. I hope it helps.

Frame 30: definitely will fall

Frames 50-82: excellent! very realistic

83 - 104: Hips should jut past head more and both hands would be forced to stay on ground while he forces his feet back into alignment with his body.

Frame 134: He'll break his neck. The weight of his body coming down and bent supporting elbow mean that he'll continue to come down on his head.

152: around this frame the motion and poses are very nice.

176: after this frame, his hips seem to be pulled by a rope most here. His movement is more magical than caused by outside forces like gravity.

My only suggestion to intuitively understand this better, short of learning to walk on your hands and videotaping it is this:

Take a rod, cane, stick, whatever... something about 2/3 of a meter long and try to balance it on your fingertip. Watch how you follow the far point of the stick after it tips out of alignment... the motion will lag a bit until the mass of the stick is also starting to really shift. The stick stays rigid, while the fingertip wiggles around trying to counter the fall - this is where the hands will plant in the ground to keep up with the ankles. I think you'll find that this is what it looks most like when someone walks on their hands. The body is mostly rigid and the hands keep changing their positions to accomodate the loss of equillibrium.

Like Xerc, the more I watch it, the more I like it because there is something about it that grows on you, but at first viewing, it doesn't seem right, and it has to seem right at first viewing.

I know I'm sounding picky, but I really do like it. There are some parts, like I pointed out, that are really very good. It's just that I've spent many hours upside down on my hands in a gym and feel that the other places I mention could be improved upon.

Take care and keep up the great work. Love your art and your website!

[pigbelly]

Thanks Webfox.

I hope you don’t think I’m trying to defend myself here.
My goal with this animation is to bend the rules, not to mimic reality!!
BUT!! You are right It should “feel” right in either case!.

I will look it over but I wont make it more real! I will probably exaggerate something instead:-)
The strange thing is the part I like most is the jpg you sent:-) All I can hope for is that you are too aware of the handstand technique:-)

Anyway…many thanks.

I’ll post an update soon

/Tommie

[XerC]

Sorry for interupting again.
I just wanted to say, that if one could rate comments, webfox would recieve 5 of 5 stars! Never seen such a thoughtful and good comment before.
Just had to say this :beer:

Looking forward to see an update! :airguitar

XerC

[pigbelly]

Absolutely.......6 of 5!!

/Tommie

[webfox]

Thanks guys. :)

I know that my comments were based on trying to walk correctly on one's hands, and that the posted animation is more comical, so not everything I mentioned applies. Walking on hands is difficult to do because your center of gravity is above your head for a change, you're using something weaker than your legs to accomplish it - not just legs, but fingers are weaker than toes, too- and your perspective is skewed because your head is straining to be upright, though, at best, it's facing the floor, so you have a limited range of visibility. (Limited visibility means you can't see the corners of the room or many reference objects to help your brain figure out if you're starting to tip over. You rely very heavily on peripheral vision to see if you're tilting.)

After posting I started to think about clowns and schoolyard kids playing around with walking on hands and they do swing their legs more and bend their knees a lot. This might be a situation where you practice a shorter animation to get the motion right for a formal handstand and walk, and then, later, add swinging legs and feet, and see if those will move the balance off enough that you have to modify the character's motion path.

(I feel like Cliffy from Cheers right about now...)

[pigbelly]

hahaha!!

Great man!!

And Your input is super!!
I don't know if I can get all that into my anim, but I'll try..

Thanks again!!

P.s your fingers must bleed by now?? :-)

/Tommie

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