What happened to FinalRender Stage 1?

[KiboOst]

Have a look here : http://www.finalrender.com/forums/fR_main/YaBB.pl?board=general;action=display;num=1040478070

These are the last officials words.

Kib

[wgreenlee1]

Only members allowed..is it a secert?????????

[Sgt.ArchAngel]

dont worry it doesnt say anything about when its release is comming
its jsut some jerk around BS post to ease some of there board members
it has no specifics on stage-1 release


I would like to clear up some things and tell you what is going on with the release of finalRender Stage-1 and finalToon.

First of all i can understand your frustration about the lack of information we lately offered to you. Right now there is not much I can tell you in detail. We are preparing a great new product along with a never seen before support and quality assurance. No other renderer on the market will be able to match the full range of functionality and support when we are ready and have sorted out all the needed things.
I have to be a little bit "unprecise" here as we are in negotiation with several companies right now who will add even more on top of the whole package!

Everything looks fine and promising and you will soon understand that the extra waiting makes completeley sense and it's worth the wait!

For now, please accept my apologies for not being able to tell you more about the upcoming great changes in the way of rendering with 3ds max! It just became a big "monster" and we are involved in so many things with different people. It just takes more time as expected to coordinated all those things between so many parties.

We expect to tell you more in detail within the next 2-3 weeks. For now I wish you all a peaceful christmas and happy rendering with STAGE-0 which is in fact also a great product and used in many production work right now.

Also all orders placed, have not been charged and will be secured with this special price as long as finalRender Stage-1 and finalToon starts shiping.


personaly i cant stan companies that keep there customers int he dark...

[googlo]

I wouldn't take it too personally, it seems like most software companies do this. They never are on time with their releases dates and when they do meet them instead of finishing the product like they should it's super buggy (particularly computer games!).

[chrisdejoya]

so when this thing does come, will it be an essential upgrade? because I just got stage-0...and I'm using max 5.

[googlo]

No, it will be way more than an upgrade, it will be like the next new version of FinalRender, that you can upgrade too if you have Stage 0.

It's going to have some awesome new things in it.

Instead of being like an enhancement to Max's scanline renderer, it will completely replace it.

You can have multiple computers contribute to the rendering of EACH frame via bucket rendering.

Here are some page links with info on some of the features and video demonstrating them

http://www.trinity3d.com/productinfo/siggraph2002/Sig_MovieGallery.shtml

http://www.finalrender.com/products/products.asp?UD=10-7888-35-788&PID=37

http://www.cebas.com/products/feature.asp?UD=10-7888-35-788&PID=36&FID=301


Here are some feature listing pages:

http://max3d.3dluvr.com/news.php?n_id=504

http://www.nms.be/pages/products/discreet/finalrender_stage1.htm

I think it was supposed to be released in December. But there hasn't been much info released about it, not even expos on finished features so far, etc. The same kind of thing was happening with Brazil. People were growing really impatient for new information and waiting for a concrete release date.

You know like how it is with World of Warcraft right now :)

[yog]

The original deadline was last October. It came and went without comment from the developer until 21st Dec.

This is a good example of why most companies don't give deadlines, you tend to look disorganised when you miss them ****cough**Messiah Studio**Cough***

Quite ironic when you consider Cebas (FinalRender's developer), caused a stink by publically ridiculing other companies for missing deadlines and labelling them "vapour ware".

[megaflaizer]

i tried finalrender

now i use brazil

hmmm....

[3dsmax5]

Snowfly: You're supposed to get a free upgrade if you buy stage-0 now.

[KiboOst]

http://www.finalrender.com/forums/fR_main/YaBB.pl?board=general;action=display;num=1043836519 :bounce:

Kib

[3dsmax5]

finalToon™ and finalRender®- Now Certified by Discreet

Eppelheim, Germany-- Monday-- January 29th, 2003
cebas Computer GmbH announced today that they are one of the first partners chosen by Discreet and Turbo Squid to become part of the new Discreet Certified 3ds max Plug-in program (described online at www.discreet.com). Two of cebas’ products, finalToon and finalRender, were selected for this honor and were able to pass the rigorous testing and certification process necessary to carry the Discreet Certified 3ds max Plug-in logo.

Products Covered
The Discreet Certified 3ds max Plug-in program ensures that developers follow strict guidelines in creating a certified plug-in. Including a unified installation and licensing procedure, strict beta testing and a searchable online manual. The program ensures that all certified plug-ins provide a consistent, high quality user experience.
Selected from cebas’ product portfolio are:

• finalToon™ ( available on January 29th) is one of the first Discreet Certified 3ds max Plug-ins to ship. Already one of the top choices for 3D artists looking for NPR (Non Photo Realistic Rendering) solutions, artists now have further assurance as to the value and robustness of the plug-in. As part of the Discreet Certified 3ds max Plug-in program, finalToon will be available from Discreet sales channels including authorized dealers, Turbo Squid and the Discreet online store.

• finalRender Stage-1 has also been selected for the Discreet Certified 3ds max Plug-in program. finalRender Stage-1 has grown to be one of the most complex 3ds max plug-ins ever sold and the rigorous testing process to achieve certification ensures longterm compatibility. Shipment of finalRender Stage-1 as part of the Discreet Certified 3ds max Plug-in program, is expected in Q1, 2003. For further updates on availability, visit www.turbosquid..com/DCP.

New Discreet Certified 3ds max Plug-in Service and Support Scheme

cebas Computer GmbH plug-ins that aren’t part of the new Discreet program will still be handled directly by cebas. All Discreet Certified 3ds max Plug-ins developed by cebas will be handled and supported through the official sales channel set up by Turbo Squid. An official Discreet Certified 3ds max Plug-in forum on Turbo Squid’s web server will enable users to get support any where, any time.

Other cebas Products
ProOpticSuite, ThinkingParticles, psd-manager and all other products developed by cebas Computer GmbH are not currently part of the Discreet Certified 3ds max Plug-in program but may be in the future. In the meantime, sales and distribution of cebas plug-ins will continue through the known cebas sales channels.

Pricing and availability
As a plug-in to Discreet's modeling, animation and rendering solution 3ds max 4 and 5, finalToon has a suggested retail price (SRP) in North America of US $495. finalToon is available from local Discreet resellers and will be available January 29th , 2003 at the Turbo Squid online store: www.turbosquid.com/dcpstore or some time later on the Discreet e-store: www.discreet.com/purchase . Visit Turbo Squid at: www.turbosquid.com/dcp or Discreet at www.discreet.com/dcp or call 800-869- 3504 or 514-393-1616 for more information.

About cebas Computer GmbH
cebas Computer GmbH is a German developer of advanced 3D software for 3ds max and other 3D applications, based in the Heidelberg area. With its 14 years of experience in software development for the 3D market, cebas has become renowned for their quality and unique software products they offer to graphics and animation studios around the world.

contact information
__________________________
cebas Computer GmbH
Lilienthalstr. 19
69214 Eppelheim Germany
Phone: ++49 6221 76 00 38
Fax: ++49 6221 76 00 39
email: info@cebas.de

[urgaffel]

So? All that says is that Discreet likes their software. And using Turbo Squid? I haven't heard much good about that...

Even Splutterfish has posted images of features for Ver 2.0, isn't it time Cebas updated? I mean... They wouldn't want to be labeled a vapour ware company? ;)

[googlo]

urgaffel,

Yeah but c'mon. People were complaining about Brazil when it was taking forever to be released, and their website wasn't updated with new info even when Brazil 1.0 WAS made available to the public. I even found info on their website that was like a year old! It eventually was changed and everything seems current now. I don't think people should be ragging on Finalrender for inability to communicate and meet it's deadlines and then act like Brazil wasn't like that. There are some images and even video demonstrations of stage 1 out already. Cebas should be communicating more, but so should have brazil, so should Discreet, etc.. I think people are using a little bit of bias here and software favoritism to fuel their ranting. I've been dying for the FinalRender people to release at least some new info or images, etc.. I didn't like and don't like it when other software companies do this either; but they ALL do it. ALL of them need to get their acts together!

[Aaron Moore]

Tubo Sqeak is TOTALLY BS! They have a crappy support team, their system for selling models is CRAP, and their pricing is way off in the out field.

:shrug: I have no reason to support Tuble Squibble and I hope this new "Certification" crap doesn't affect us much more...

What is their "certification" thing for anyway? Who gives a fly hoot if its ISO9k, Microsoft backed, quality insured, for a frickin plugin! I’d rather have the developers focus on working on their plugins then trying to get things “certified” with “proper documentationalizationalsim quality asuuration confirmation” bull!

BTW u guys are aware of the incredible amount of model theft and plagiarism that is going on at Titty Spit right? :bounce:

:shame: Can u see I'm not too happy with TS?

:beer:

[googlo]

Turbo squid is odd to me, but the Discreet certification thing sounded cool.


cebas Computer GmbH and DCP FAQ
Q: What is DCP?

A: The Discreet DCP program was designed to identify and bring “best of breed” plug-ins for 3ds max to market. Under the Discreet alliance, Turbo Squid will oversee the manufacturing, marketing and distribution of DCPs. Only the highest quality plug-ins will be included in the DCP program. The certification process involves a proprietary quality-control process. Turbo Squid will market approximately 15 plug-ins during the first year of the program, all of which will be best-of-breed in their space, i.e. rendering or particle systems or other functions.

Q: Did Discreet buy cebas?

A: NO!

Q: Did cebas buy Discreet?

A: NO!

Q: How are DCP plug-ins delivered?

A: DCP plug-ins will come with a professional DVD packaging including manuals and a searchable online manual. Also you can buy all DCP plug-ins direct online at the Turbo Squid or Discreet store

Q: Are all cebas plug-ins DCP approved?

A: No, right now finalToon and finalRender are the only DCP approved plug-ins. There may be further products following the DCP road.

Q: Why did cebas choose to put finalToon and finalRender into DCP ?

A: cebas was always committed to develop outstanding 3ds max plug-ins with the best support possible. Experience tells us that increasing numbers of plug-in sales need an enormous amount of sales power and people to back up the expected support and service level. By choosing Discreet as sales and service power behind our plug-ins, we are more than confident that this is in the best interest of every user of our plug-ins. Further we think it will help all users, experienced and beginners, to have a unified “look and feel” for DCP products. Once you learned how to install and train on a DCP product, you know all of them! Another important thing for cebas was that even it is a Discreet controlled and monitored program we still have the freedom to implement our well known advanced ideas and features. And we can do this with guaranteed and advanced support from Discreet like no one else gets, outside the DCP program.

Q: What about the orders I already placed?

A: All orders you may have placed with your dealer are still valid and you need to do nothing about it. Your dealer is the best contact for your needs and this will stay the way it is. The only difference now is that your dealer will get the Discreet approved product from Turbo Squid. There will be no price changes for pre-orders or upgrades and such.

Q: Will the prices now be higher?

A: No, the pricing structure we used is also valid for the DCP program. However, future versions of products may always show different prices.

Q: When is finalToon shipping?

A: January 29th, please allow several days for shipping to your place!

Q: When is finalRender shipping?

A: finalRender will ship in Q1, 2003 depending on the DCP approval process and adoption procedure.

Q: Will DCP products use a Hardware Lock?

A: All DCP products will use a unified authorization mechanism in its final appearance. This protection method is defined by Discreet and will be a software solution similar to the one used for CS4.

Q: Will cebas still sell products with Hardware Locks?

A: Yes, cebas will offer their non DCP products protected with a Hardware Lock. Also the floating license manager developed by cebas will be sold for products like ThinkingParticles, psd-manager, ProOpticSuite, MatterWaves etc.

Q: How does Discreet guarantee the future of the plug-in?

A: One of the big ideas behind the DCP program is the guaranteed survival of the DCP plug-ins for the coming years of 3ds max versions. All DCP approved plug-ins/developers must enable Discreet to keep on developing the plug-in under all situations, even if the developer goes out of business or loses interest. DCP products will be alive as long as 3ds max is going to be alive- Guaranteed!

Q: After a while, won’t be all plug-ins DCP plug-ins?

A: No, this will not happen for sure. The expected total amount of DCP plug-ins is estimated to be around 15 for a long time. The testing and qualification procedure along with the strict rules Discreet has given, makes not every plug-in a candidate. Only those which meet these high standards will get the DCP logo and as you can easily imagine, only “best of the best” get approved.

Q: What about the other cool stuff from cebas?

A: Non DCP plug-ins like ProOpticSuite, MatterWaves, PyroCluster® , psd-manager, maxVR.qt etc. … will be still available from the cebas online store and their dealers.

[Refracted]

googlo, true brazil 1.0 was prolly rather slow in coming, but it's the fact that Cebas was raggin on it, calling it vapor-ware, that makes the difference here. Now it's cebas's turn to look like it has vaporware on it's hands, but you dont see splutterfish ragging about that, and i doubt you will, since no one has stooped as low as cebas up to now in their marketing strategy. Splutterfish has probably learned from it's past to show more updates, and they have.. you can see some beautiful brazil 2.0 images on the site, and even a nice timeline of whats been done and whats to come from splutterfish, and brazil 2.0 itself is still a long ways away. Cebas doesn't seem to be learning much though, keeping in the dark like this. They're ending up the target of their own words at this point.

[halo]

one thing...given its bug record, why does discreet certifying a plugin make it any better than one that isnt...?

[uday]

Originally posted by 3dsmax5


all this still didnt answer the original question.
secondly...IMHO discreet certified means didly squat if you look at the non discreet certifiedplugins available that are indispensable...
at the rendering end...Brazil/Vray/Mental Ray even entropy (until it was killed) and a host of new Gi supporting caustics tauting renderers for MAX are doing well and will do well. (I hope so).

FR needs to be faster and better that the above mentioned.more BANG for the BUCK!
discreet just says a lot of things...dont mean that much when you look at some crappy products they have put out.

EDIT is apparantly discontinued.
COmbustion has Node view which is nonsense compared to shake
or digital fusion.
Cleaner....laf!!!

and ya...MAx boolean went through some real hard core testing
before it made it into Max.
List can go on forever.....
I LOVE MAX still......
but all the rest is just hogwash.
(by the way the FR demo videos personally made me go to sleep....maybe its that guys voice or something)
oops...thats a bit too personal i think...

[urgaffel]

Refracted, that's exactly my point. The marketing bs from cebas usually leaves a bad taste in my mouth...

As for cebas signing up for the dcp deal, I can see why. They have many plugins, and having someone else take care of sales and support must be worth a lot financially. Less people to hire etc. For companies that don't trust discreet, Turbo Squid or think that they aren't capable of high quality support, they wouldn't sign it. At least that's how I see this...

[googlo]

Refracted
Yeah I totally think Cebas people are too lippy, to the point of being offenseive at times, but that doesn't mean everyone else has to jump on their case when their down, especially when the Cebas people have to eat their own words! It's just too 'grade school' you know? Especially in light of all the other companies out there who fail on what they say but still make cool stuff.

I still haven't decided on which renderer to plan on getting. I'm waiting for stage 1 to come out. Brazil looks cool, but there are features that it hasn't implimented yet that Stage 1 will have and even some that stage 0 already does have already, I think. Like volume lights and even volume caustic lighting. But then, what makes Brazil interesting to me is it's promised programming ability, I think it's called Orchid right now. But then again, Finalrender is a little cheaper AND you don't have to get additional licenses for more rendering nodes, while with Brazil you do (beyond whichever package you buy).

But then Brazil seems to be more accepted in the states, or at least seems like it, whereas I don't hear much of Stage 0 here, I guess because Cebas is a European country (so is it used more outside the states?) or is because Stage 0's interface allowed for too much control making it overly complicated compared to Brazil so people feel more comfortable with Brazil?

ugh
:)

[urgaffel]

Googlo: the reason I brought it up is only partly to gloat. Mostly it's to point out that cebas has a tendency to make lofty promises and bash everyone else. Now that they are in the same seat as the ones they bashed a year ago, I don't see any gloating posts on Splutterfishs or Vrays site. Also, the impression I got from Stage 0 was that it was more of a mix between a beta and the final product. I mean, it's called Stage 0 for crying out loud. They also had the volumetric technology earlier. Bunch Of Volumes was it not?

Personally I like Brazil better since it's a well laid out, you can easily see what the different spinners do etc. And the new lights and cameras are sweet... Not to mention the materials :)

[Refracted]

Of all the 3dsmax renderer developpers, i'm tending to respect splutterfish the most that it can create a stable and usefull renderer. They have the longest track record with max integrations of raytracers (heck, they're the ones that made it possible for max to even raytrace with rayfx, though at the time, splutterfish didn't exist, so it was just 2 programmers (scott and steve) at blur that took the task of creating a raytracer for max). From what i hear, the shader api is coming along nicely, and the new skin shader is proof of that, as it was built with it. Also, when brazil became version 1.0 (and boy did that take time), it deserved to be called 1.0. I've never used fR, but from what practically everyone tells me, it's pretty darn buggy. (ie, the remark about it being half beta, half final product) and it's integration in max is horrible. It places files all over your 3dsmax directory, and even slides itself into your max files even if you dont use fR as the renderer. From this behavior, it almost sounds like a virus. (again, this is all still stuff i've heard from people who've used it).

Sure stage 1 might be better, but it's like flipping a coin.. will they do it right? what exactly is in it? there are NO recent technology previews of it's features, etc. Last i saw, their "micro triangle super poly displacement whatever" looked horrible. i dont know how anyone can trust that stage 1 will be all that it claims, and i dont see how people can put down money for it. It's basically like making a bet, not knowing what exactly you're going to get.

I myself got Brazil, and every day i'm happier and happier of my decision. I dont see anyone complaining about it crashing/whatever on these boards, only people questioning how to use it (who have obviously not read the manual or looked at the tutorials).

And since i got brazil, i'm not "missing" any features that fR might have.. Volume caustics? who even uses that in production? Any tool i could ask for is included with brazil, for me anyway. And rendering licences? i have 3 computers here, and the artist bundle lets me render with all of them. If i have more than that, i think i can afford a couple network licenses. I mean c'mon, a renderer pays itself within a few contracts anyway. Unless you're a hobbyist which happens to have 10 computers, i dont see how this is all that far-fetched to ask for more money for more licenses, most highend renderers do anyway and no one complains.

I didn't mean to turn this post into a brazil vs fR, but tell me if i'm mistaken in anything i've said? i find this all very logical...

[googlo]

Well I don't mind peoples opinions when they are legit, I actually want to hear them. I just don't like emotional or favoritism-for-the-sake-of-favoritism-or-loyalty (can I use that many hyphens :) ) arguements or comments.



Unless you're a hobbyist which happens to have 10 computers, i dont see how this is all that far-fetched to ask for more money for more licenses, most highend renderers do anyway and no one complains.

I just wanted to comment on this, it's not really about the topic though.

I think it's totally wrong that someone should have to pay more for number crunching just becuase they are able to add more computers into the fray. It seems totally unfair, like useree or something, that people should have to pay for more software licenses just because they want to add more computers to contribute with the rendering.

It doesn't really matter to me if the big renderer companies have done it that way, to me that just means it started off wrong in the first place.

It seems more like just an excuse for getting more money. It's like people are being jacked because they can! (this isn't meant to be Brazil specific either)

Does it seem fair to you? I buy one license to USE the software on a workstation, but if I want to add more computers to COMPUTE the solution for the rendering, I have to pay a fee for that?! It's almost unethical!


Volume caustics? who even uses that in production?

The more possibilities there are for creativity, the better in my opinion! It's like having more kinds of paintbrushes to use or more kinds of textured paper, etc, kind of get what I mean?

Sure stage 1 might be better, but it's like flipping a coin.. will they do it right? what exactly is in it? there are NO recent technology previews of it's features, etc. Last i saw, their "micro triangle super poly displacement whatever" looked horrible. i dont know how anyone can trust that stage 1 will be all that it claims, and i dont see how people can put down money for it. It's basically like making a bet, not knowing what exactly you're going to get

I agree. I complained about the same thing with Brazil though. I almost get pissed that they don't have more info out (cebas) because 1) it was supposed to be out already 2)it was supposed to be out already.

If the release date was set, then surely they must have had most of the new features neraly worked out that they could AT LEAST show us some things and give us some details. Ok, now i'm going to need some aspirins..

[uday]

o ...i know...apparantly they are jumping off all the "common" renderes list .Infact heard PIXAr is replacing PRMAN with FR in their next production.;)

[3dsmax5]

BTW finalRender has 10 free render licenses unlike other more expensive renderers. I think the reason they couldn't show any features was because of the deal with discreet.
And those videos on www.trinity.com are practically show the whole UI and the main features of fR. So I'm pretty happy with cebas. OK they have said some rather wierd things in their PR, BUT I have never heard it pointed directly at brazil or vray. Correct me if I'm wrong.
:beer:

[Khepri]

!!!>before you start readin: this is not an attack/flame on anyone in particulair, just try to give my view over this all.<!!!

ok, I aint gonna comment on all the things said before except for three.

1.
Does it seem fair to you? I buy one license to USE the software on a workstation, but if I want to add more computers to COMPUTE the solution for the rendering, I have to pay a fee for that?! It's almost unethical!


do you think a render-engine is written/programmed over night or something? it takes ALOT of TIME to create a app that is advanced, but it takes blood sweat and tears to create a app that is stable(!!!!), production ready(!!!!), flexible(!!!), and user friendly(!!!!).

there are people who do not sleep for days trying to make it all come together and make it functional. Those people do not only put time in their work, but sacrifice loads and loads of things to make it all happen.

they make the software so good/fast/userfriendly that you wouldn't need 10 extra computers to calculate it all because you would have won that time in the production process.

a good renderer is not about features like"volume caustics", or 3 billion poly renders. its about helping you to create stuff you want to create. and in order to do that it has to be solid.


2.
But then Brazil seems to be more accepted in the states, or at least seems like it, whereas I don't hear much of Stage 0 here, I guess because Cebas is a European country (so is it used more outside the states?) or is because Stage 0's interface allowed for too much control making it overly complicated compared to Brazil so people feel more comfortable with Brazil?

first of Cebas is not a country(germany is though), if a program is good, everyone over the whole world will love it, look at Mental Ray(also from Ceba.. GERMANY) great tool, great power, and great flexabillity.

lastly I'd like to doubt that FR has more control over stuff than brazil offers saying things like that is like saying your the marketleader and every company is following your lead......

which brings us to my last point

"bad PR techniques". I have only one thing to say:
if you have time to write such silly press-releases as Cebas did, you obviously have a luxury called "time off", and that reflects on the quality of the product.


take care now! Bye bye then!

[KiboOst]

AHAHAH funny stuff to read here. Hay who cares about marketing ? When you buy your car, you read the commercial ? Ah ok, now I understand.... Sorry I personnaly prefer to test it before buying it hey.

About video of Stage1, there are many things that don't show here... These video was taken with an early alpha version.

Anyway, use what you want, just make cool images !

Kib

[Khepri]

AHAHAH funny stuff to read here. Hay who cares about marketing ? When you buy your car, you read the commercial ? Ah ok, now I understand.... Sorry I personnaly prefer to test it before buying it hey.


I never read a commercial, I watch it, and everyone prefers to test stuff before they buy. so whats you point?
there is no demo of FR(as far as everyone/I know(s)).


so how to test it?

look at the vids?

funny stuff to read indeed!:applause: :hmm:

[KiboOst]

My point is specially saying to test it :rolleyes:

And you know there is other way than demos, for test before buying of course, don't take me wrong. :shame:

And yes it's a shame there isn't any fr demo. But afaik it should be one soon after stage1 is released :bounce:


Kib

[Jon_Pran]

All I can say is that Cebas better come out with a kick ass product soon! When I first started using fR it seemed it was alone, got great reviews with Computer Arts, etc., then Brazil and VRay started making headway (esp. Brazil). Now everyone talks about Brazil, and to be honest, I am beginning to like the idea. If it weren't for knowing fR already (somewhat, anyway) I'd go for it.
I pray it's worth the wait.

[Lord Tyrion]

This is from the fR Support Forum.

Im to upset to make comments about "garage 2 man programmer shows". It´s clear that this goes out to the Splutterfishes again.

:(


Hmm, I checked the information there and it contains many false things and assumptions. Also this is normal I woudl say as the DCP has juts started and it just needs a little bit time to get fully known.

It is clear that some developers (especially smaller ones) might have a problem with getting a DCP certification. However, on the other hand as far as I know Sitni Sati isn't really big either and managed to get onto the DCP program.

Everyone who thinks DCP is just a sticker, has an absolutely weird idea about the program Discreet has planned! The program is in fact about quality and better plug-ins. The whole idea to have a certification would be otherwise just nonsense.

The difference is, one product is in the DCP and the other one isn't. It is a fact that DCP products will survive independent of the devleopers survival. This means that plug-ins will be still available for max 6 max 7 or even max 10!

So when you look into the renderer market as an example, the user might want to buy a product that will be available for a longter time than only one or two years. Especially nowadays, with such a tough economic situation it is more than likely that those garage 2 man programmer shows might dissapear really fast. And in fact not only those smaller 2 man or 3 man shows dissapear - it even happend to a big new startup renderer (everyone knows it). Imagine you had invested several US$ 1200 into this product! All lost now. No more ongoing development! So DCP is all about quality and productivity for the professional user, nothing else.

Any developer who is trying to talk this idea to death is either afraid of it or does not fully understand what it takes to get a product out to the professional user of today.

This is my personal opinion, how we see this whole certification thing.

edwin

[Flyby]

Originally posted by Lord Tyrion
Im to upset to make comments about "garage 2 man programmer shows". It´s clear that this goes out to the Splutterfishes again.


and/or the V-Ray programmers team, Peter and Vlado....
As far I know, the finalRender team isn't that much bigger either.

[Lord Tyrion]

Thanks Robert for your concerns about other developers. Did you read the DCP discussion at all? I was talking about the link posted. I tried to explain the DCP idea from our side as we see it as the developer.

Your comments do not really show any real argument, I explained the basic idea about the new DCP program and why it was initiated by Discreet. A strong point about this program is that the plug-ins should have a certain standard and they are gauaranteed to survive. I feel I'm repeating my self....

Anyhow, it is a fact that Entropy (EXLUNA) dissapeard as a 3ds max plug-in. I do not know why you think that the other developers you mentioned will not survive or handle the market?? I have no knowledge of that. For finalRender i can say it's guaranteed by Discreet which is not a 2 man company.

If you do not agree with the DCP program and its advantages for the users you are not forced to buy any DCP product or even show up here in our forum which is in fact a cebas Product forum.

edwin

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.