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View Full Version : HARDCORE MODELING!: THE DAVID: Body Part (Head or more)


maxedwin
04-26-2006, 05:17 AM
hello,

this is my attempt :)

Latest render:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/maxedwin/Davidrendertest2.jpg


WIPs:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/maxedwin/david1.jpg

MrPositive
04-26-2006, 06:01 AM
Ok so I posted in another thread that his head was the best work so far.......uhm nope. hehehehe

zem
04-26-2006, 06:10 AM
Oh, crap! That's some superb work. I just wish that we could have seen more of the progress as the head took form. :cry:

fx81
04-26-2006, 06:15 AM
really good modeling :thumbsup: keep going

you should make a target like full body or upper body and not keep it open ended. i am sure you will be able to finish either way by the looks of your modeling

you natalie portman looks stunning and beautiful

ps. can you show wireframes of the base mesh for david ?

Gabe
04-26-2006, 08:51 AM
That looks insane!

How did you model the hair?

maxedwin
04-26-2006, 09:50 AM
hello,

thx for the comments :)

just a quick update for today, fixing the hair....they're not exactly like the statue, because it's kinda hard to do that...

image:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/maxedwin/david2.jpg

and the zbrush wireframe (kinda mess :P):
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/maxedwin/davidframe.jpg

:)

Dennispls
04-26-2006, 10:27 AM
sweet work

Rod Seffen
04-26-2006, 10:38 AM
A word about the hair. Don't rely too much on the scanview model, becasue details like the hair scrolls are softer and more rounded than on the actual sculpture, which has quite sharp edges on the hair.

Staszek
04-26-2006, 11:15 AM
generaly very good work! its very slimar to David. - there is some c&c:
in the nose in the upper part seems to have to much agresive shape on the right side and the shape of the left part neck - in the oryginal is more round.
its wip so i think you fix them well:) and the result will be greate(even more) !! - there is time so you can try to make hairs like oryginal - from this what i see- its not a problem for you :)

fx81
04-27-2006, 07:01 AM
i compared your screenshot with david i have have to say that your work is amazing. the only thing i would say is your over all mesh has a little bumpyness, that zbrush feeling. once you refine that you are there. the likeness is also very well done. i wish you showed us how you started modeling this from the begining because right now you are almost at the final tweaking.
ps. i dont think the hair needs to be perfectly copied from david since Michelangelo didnt copy it from somewhere else. he made a random hair too. and its much harder to copy a random art than create a new one.

maxedwin
04-28-2006, 06:53 AM
hello,

thx for the comments guys, really helpfull :)

right now I'm trying to go as far as I can, maybe I will try to make a full body. So I won't worry too much about the little detail :P

here is the current proggress, still very rough sculpting:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/maxedwin/david3.jpg

I turned on the perspective on all the pics, just to see what it's look like.

:)

Rod Seffen
04-28-2006, 08:31 AM
Thats fantastic.
I'd really like to have a go at sculpting this in zbrush myself, just for a comparison to modeling it in lightwave.

brianclark
04-28-2006, 04:22 PM
looks great so far, zbrush has gotta be the way to go for the hair, yours is looking cool

Staszek
04-28-2006, 05:10 PM
your work is greate!! - please show us the progress to this step.

gaiXyn
04-28-2006, 05:28 PM
Whoa ho ho hoo!! that's amazing!! Here I'm thinking I only have oDDity and Staszek to worry about, lol :D I guess you make three. Great job man, for real!! :thumbsup:

6foot5
04-29-2006, 05:25 AM
another top drawer entry.

RobertoOrtiz
04-30-2006, 03:44 PM
TWO WEEKS TO GO! (MAY 15th):Hardcore Modeling Challenge: THE DAVID! (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=352022)
Just a reminder

-R

maxedwin
05-01-2006, 05:16 AM
here is the current proggress:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/maxedwin/david5.jpg

still long way to go...

oDDity - thank you, I think you will do great job using zbrush, especially with your modeling skill :)

Staszek - thx, I will post the proggress pics later on. I used edge looping method to expand the mesh, so it quite basic actually.

:)

gaiXyn
05-01-2006, 05:23 AM
WOW MAN!! that's awesome!! and so fast too!! I admire your speed and your skill.

fx81
05-01-2006, 05:32 AM
amazing!
i would say you are on the top right now.
only thing you need is better documentaion of your work.

Staszek
05-01-2006, 01:32 PM
Geate work - you did really good job - there is some diferences - but im sure you now - you have nice 2 weeks to finnish it perfectly - :)

Rod Seffen
05-01-2006, 05:17 PM
The stance has something wrong with it, he looks like he is hunched or crouched over a little, but it's hard to teel with only a front view.
Can we see it from all 4 sides?

Fingernail
05-01-2006, 08:59 PM
Can I ask what your method with ZBrush is?

Did you start with Zpheres to make the whole body and pose, and then an adaptive mesh and model from there, or was it all pulled out of a sphere or other shape (unlikely)?

maxedwin
05-02-2006, 02:31 AM
hello,

Binder - thx, but I don't think i'm fast, maybe it's because I use zbrush...

fx81 - I made a new save file everytime I expand the mesh, so maybe I can make a picture showing from start to finish later on :)

oDDity - yep, the stance is still quite messed up :P, I will post the 4 sided picture later on today.

Fingernail - I actually started with the head, because I wasnt going to make a full body at first, then I use edge loop to expand the mesh one by one....not a smart move hehe...

6foot5
05-02-2006, 02:49 AM
amazing work, working with edge loops in zbrush must be painstaking.:thumbsup:


can you use image planes in zbrush?? how did you get the head so accurate?

gaiXyn
05-02-2006, 05:49 AM
can you use image planes in zbrush?? how did you get the head so accurate?

That's a good question. I would like to know the answer to that myself.

maxedwin
05-02-2006, 06:07 AM
hello,

image plane? you mean putting reference images as a background ? well, I think there is a plugin for zbrush to do that...but I don't think it's gonna work.

I just do alt-taping back and forth all the way when I use zbrush.....

here is the 4 side ortho picture:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/maxedwin/4sideortho.jpg

and this one with perspective turned on:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/maxedwin/david6.jpg

:)
ma

rasmusW
05-02-2006, 07:41 AM
hey maxedwin!

this is really good. not much else to say...
i'm looking forward for your progress pics.

-r

maxedwin
05-03-2006, 08:13 AM
hello,

here is the latest render:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/maxedwin/david7.jpg

Looks like I manage to keep the poly count around 700k, so it's possible for me to render using 3dmax later on with disp map...

any comments are welcome :)

Rod Seffen
05-03-2006, 09:04 AM
The only major thing I can see from this distance is the abdominal muscles are too pronounced. You have four perfectly square muscles above the navel which aren't there in the statue.
I'd like to see a close up of the right hand, it's looks a little odd from here.
Overall, it's really great work.

brianclark
05-03-2006, 02:08 PM
This is looking great. So you just kind of eye ball the reference? I think that is something that zbrush needs is the abiltiy to bring in a reference image behind the model. You seemed to not need it though. Really nice model.

maxedwin
05-03-2006, 02:44 PM
hi,

oDDity - yes, you r right about the stomach, seems like I got tricked by the lightning :P. I just though they r kinda cool compared to the statue, thats why I leave them like that. But hopefully I will try to make it as close as posible to the statue.
As for the hands and feet, they are still very rough, missing nails and stuff.....which I'm not sure if I will make them in good detail, because i'm trying to save the poly count =P

brianclark - there is a plug-in available for that, I just think they are kinda distracting....and hard to use too.

maxedwin
05-04-2006, 11:06 AM
hello,

Looks like I miscalculated the poly count.....which cause me to do partial renders to make it work using 3dmax.

here is the test render, using 1 area light, and final gathering turned on (I'm really bad with rendering things...so pardon me hehe)
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/maxedwin/davidrender1.jpg

I tried to fix his body area, its almost final now, but seems like that there a bit problem with the abs muscle :P

Rod Seffen
05-04-2006, 11:52 AM
I think this latest render may be a little blown out, too much bloom or whatever you have on there.
Also, because of the lack of detail and lack of sharp definition places, you don't really get a sense of scale, this is a huge statue, but your's looks more like a minature ordamental version casted from porcelain.

maxedwin
05-04-2006, 01:08 PM
yep, hopefully I'll able to create all the small details next time.....but it will require a bit more poly. Looks like the ground stone will cause me quite trouble :P.

also, any idea for the material best used for this statue? I used SSS on it right now, cuz it looks kinda cool =P

Rod Seffen
05-04-2006, 01:12 PM
Yeah, the sss does look good, but it's a bit too bright and over-bloomed. Make it just a bit more subtle.

Fingernail
05-04-2006, 05:04 PM
I read that as the ass looks good.

Which it does, the whole thing is an awesome example of ZBrush.

I get the edge loop tool you used, but did you use Zspheres at all to make the shape of the head to begin with (the eyeslots and stuff)?

I really get put off by the shapes they create at first.

gaiXyn
05-04-2006, 06:00 PM
I read that as the ass looks good.

I must say that I was a lil confuse at first when I read that, but I guess you mean sss.

And it does look good, but like what oDDity already pointed out, it's a lil blown out.

Fingernail
05-05-2006, 06:31 PM
No, you misunderstand.

I know Oddity wrote "sss" but on first glance it looked to me like "ass".

gaiXyn
05-06-2006, 05:29 AM
No, you misunderstand.

I know Oddity wrote "sss" but on first glance it looked to me like "ass".

no worries man, it only confused me for a second. I know what you really mean, don't worry about it.

PhuongDPh
05-06-2006, 11:49 AM
very nice Zbrush model
that's interesting !
Good luck !

maxedwin
05-07-2006, 03:21 PM
Hello,

Test render:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/maxedwin/Davidrendertest2.jpg


the model isn't finished yet..., also ignore the spliting in the middle.


Fingernail (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=109874) - yes, I used zsphere for the head, 3 spheres (head, neck, and ears) and edge loop the rest...


any comments are welcome :)

Fingernail
05-07-2006, 04:16 PM
It's awesome - I'd say it's between you and Oddity at the moment for the full figure, and it's really tough because you used such different techniques.

Yours is sculpted which is more to the style of Michaelangelo but on the other hand Oddity's subpatch skills are just incredible.

fx81
05-07-2006, 04:17 PM
model looks really like the master piece except the smaller deatils.

render looks realistic, great work on that

how are you creating edge loops, im not familiar with that in zbrush

also, if you can create edge loops cant you just create more loops for the smaller deatails only and work on them and then you wont have to worry about polycount for the whole thing.

Rod Seffen
05-07-2006, 05:42 PM
That's definitely better lighting than the last render.

Staszek
05-07-2006, 06:32 PM
render looks very good!,
i have little critics - i now that you didnt finish it yet but maybe it help a little.
- there is some diferences - gentle - ;left calf is much different from right- the mass ; some muscles in the upper part of chest are to 'big'(to extrude,pull out), foot seems to be too 'fat', and somethimg in the face - generaly looks greate but i think oryginal nose is little longer and lineral -more 'clasic'
some of things looks diferent in the another views and maybe some of my critics are not helpfull - if you can show the sides and back of model.
sorry for my english - i just cannot find words for some cases what i want to tell.

overall your work is greate - and for sure you are close to finish it outstanding!!.

maxedwin
05-08-2006, 02:42 AM
hello,
Fingernail - yeah, we r using different apps, that's why I think it's not fair to judge only by the end result...

fx81 - edge looping in zbrush is a little bit tricky, since we can only do edge loop in the lowest mesh resolution, random edge looping just to raise the mesh density will end in a bad topology. Unless you choose to delete the lowest res for more control, but it's undoable after that =P.

Also it will raise the poly count everytime you do edge loop. Zbrush can handle 2 million poly easily, but I don't think its useable in other apps. Right now my model has 700k poly at the highest res, which is actually 1.4 mil triangle (half is spent on the face haha, my bad)

oDDity - thx, doing testing renders is painfull, I'm just glad I did alright :)

Staszek - thank you for your critics, I really appreciated it :). It always hard to duplicate things, perspective distortion is perhaps the biggest issue....too bad Zbrush perspective isnt accurate, otherwise I wouldnt waste time running back and forth with 3dmax....

:)

arshlevon
05-08-2006, 03:50 AM
looks fabulous, really makes me wnat to finish mine.

RobertoOrtiz
05-08-2006, 04:08 PM
FYI

ONE WEEK TO GO :The Hardcore Modeling MINI-Challenge #1: The David (MAY 15th) (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=354766)

ROBERTOS BULLHORN: Expanded RULES for the FINAL RENDER (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=354104)

-R

rasmusW
05-09-2006, 01:24 PM
hey maxedwin!

-really admire your zbrush skills. i'm currently doing a bit zbrushing on my own entry. -i was wondering if you would share some tips/tricks?

-r

maxedwin
05-11-2006, 08:24 AM
hello,

here are some tips, hope this help:

1. use low intensity (4-10) when drawing =P
2. sometimes it's hard to see the shape clearly, that's why it helps if you use a material that have a little bit spectacular. In this case I use the basic material for the overall modeling. And use the toy plastic (with 0 spec) for tweaking
3. adjusting the lighting always help, most david images use lighting from top right corner...
4. looking at the wireframe also help to see the shape movement and stuff.
5. maybe you already know this one, make sure your mesh is big enough so the draw size is actually fit, so then you can draw at the smallest detail.

maybe thats all....sorry I can help that much...

anyway, It's been 2 days since I'm not able to work, if this continue then I might not able to finish it on time.....hope not =P

rasmusW
05-11-2006, 12:06 PM
hey maxedwin!

thanks, for taking the time to this. it helps, even though i work i way very similare to yours.
hope you'll get to finish this. it's beautyful.


-r

maxedwin
05-16-2006, 02:30 AM
hello,

seems like I have to post into the WIP section....

I might take some time to finish this when I'm feeling better, just to practice....especially the rendering :)

thx for anyone that give critics and comments :)

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e174/maxedwin1/DavidFinalrender800.jpg



800x1600:
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/...alrender5xh.jpg (http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/6267/davidfinalrender5xh.jpg)

front and back ortho:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c...n/frontback.jpg (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/maxedwin/frontback.jpg)

Left and right ortho:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c...n/frontback.jpg (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/maxedwin/frontback.jpg)

proggress image:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c...edwin/steps.jpg (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/maxedwin/steps.jpg)

WIP thread:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=350499

maxedwin
05-18-2006, 11:06 AM
hello,

Finally, I recovered and able to get back....

So, this time is for personal work, not for the challenge :)

first step is lightning (rendering), and after doing some studying this is the closest I can get right now:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/maxedwin/davidlightning1.jpg

The trickiest part was the shadow under the slingshot....it's sharp but not dense....

One thing keeps me wondering is the colors and the illumination for the wall behind, maybe I should add a fill light (but isnt that what GI does?)

any commets or suggestion are welcome :)

Rod Seffen
05-18-2006, 11:12 AM
You should be wary of trying to copy the colours of a photo though, because there are many different photos of david and the lighting and colours are not always the same.
I've never been to see the real thing, so I have no way of knowing what it actually looks like in reality.
For example, this photo of David looks completely different from the one above. You would think it was a different statue.
http://www.pixelwerks.be/pictures/David.jpg

maxedwin
05-18-2006, 12:54 PM
hmm, I also never seen the real one...

but based on the pictures on the net, the lightning came from the sun through the window ceiling, so it changes everytime. But direct lightning from the sun doesnt create shadow like that, so I guess it must be something to do with the window (or perhaps it's really cloudy over there =P)
Still, the lightning still came from similar spot, as you can see that both picture have similar shadow.

The statue still look the same though...I dont know.....it looks much sharper, we can see the small details on that one

thx for the comments :)

gaiXyn
05-18-2006, 02:08 PM
So, this time is for personal work, not for the challenge :)

Yep, that's how I feel about my model now, but you did a great job on yours as is. Then again, I guess it can always be better :thumbsup:

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