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Simon
04-24-2006, 10:46 PM
Digital Anatomy Sculpture 1! The human hand - With Simon Roth


Starting Tuesday 25th : Ending Tuesday 9th of May

Hi Guys,

I think its about time we started getting some Z-brush anatomy lessons on the go. This workshop will be open to everyone, from Newbies, to seasoned pros, to learn, practice and perfect their skills and understanding.

The aim of the workshop is to explore the anatomy of the hand and lower arm, looking at the skeletal structure, the muscles and the full hand.

We will focus on modelling the hand in 3d sculpture applications such as Z-brush (or conventional packages), however we welcome all valuable inputs such as annotated sketches and photos.

For those of us who are lacking, or have misplaced their hands. I have provided some high Res photography of my own to help you on your way.

1 (http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/1.JPG) 2 (http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/2.JPG) 3 (http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/3.JPG) 4 (http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/4.JPG) 5 (http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/5.JPG) 6 (http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/6.JPG) 7 (http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/7.JPG) 8 (http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/8.JPG) 9 (http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/9.JPG)

I have also produced a low Res base mesh to work from for people who can't model their own, or are having difficulties attaining reasonable proportions


.OBJ (http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/base_mesh.obj)

.ZTL (http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/base_mesh.ZTL) - For the demo users!

For high skilled modellers, I expect you to make your own. If your feel your base mesh is an improvement on mine feel free to contribute it to the thread.

For people who have never used z-brush or do not own a copy a free 30-day trial is available from their site. here (http://pixologic.com/order/demoselect.html)

How to navigate the interface (http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/tut1.swf)


Rules

1. Although I will be giving comments and critique throughout the thread and helping with technical issues, the thread is about a community input to help each other develop our skills in a constructive group critique and interaction. Flaming is not allowed.

2. This thread is about sculpture. We are not looking at your mesh flow, etc. Keep it focused on the anatomy and not the technical aspects of creating a 3d mesh.

3. Please limit the SIZE of your POSTS to 800 pixels WIDTH x Appropriate pixel LENGTH. No huge images, please!

4. You can create as many different models as possible, but avoid flooding the thread, just post your best work. Everyone should at least try a complete hand (with skin), then we can start experimenting with modelling what lays beneath the skin.

Begginners aims - To create a basic hand in a relaxed pose with correct proportion.
Pro aims - To produce realistic detailing, weight and posing.

5. Lets make this fun!


Lets get started!

Rebeccak
04-24-2006, 10:48 PM
Great to see this Simo! Shall I advertise this, or shall you? :) Personally, I think it might be better if you posted to a few of the different forums an ad for your Workshop ~ perhaps on the ZBrush and some of the 3D forums, as well as General Discussion and Modeling.

Looking forward to watching this develop! :thumbsup:

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Simon
04-24-2006, 10:49 PM
Edit: Start posting people! :) I want to know whos onboard!

Rebeccak
04-24-2006, 10:49 PM
Ok, done! :thumbsup:

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

erilaz
04-25-2006, 12:50 AM
I'm in, definately. I need to improve my Zbrushing.

Oh, just to those using the DEMO version of Zbrush: You cannot import meshes or your own textures into the trial edition. The .ztl base mesh that Simon has provided should work however.

Simon
04-25-2006, 12:56 AM
I'm in, definately. I need to improve my Zbrushing.

Oh, just to those using the DEMO version of Zbrush: You cannot import meshes or your own textures into the trial edition. The .ztl base mesh that Simon has provided should work however.

Cool man. This should be really fun! This and the Sp thread might kill me.. lol. ah well.

Good point on the ztl file, I should point that out above! :)

FurnaceFace
04-25-2006, 03:46 AM
Oh man, any chance to learn a little Z-Brush. Sold.

LoTekK
04-25-2006, 09:18 AM
Whee, I'm in! :)

SpiritDreamer
04-25-2006, 10:40 AM
Just found out about this today....count me in.

Glenn

Simon
04-25-2006, 11:58 AM
Thanks guys! Be sure to spread the word, as the more people we get the better. I'm going have a go using my base mesh tonight and see what I can come up with. I'm also going to produce some diagrams of the muscle structure in the hand.

If anyone needs help with z-brush specifics I'll be happy to help. Again if you've got any questions just ask. :)

CgIcecube
04-25-2006, 02:19 PM
Count me in:bounce: I have recently finished Figuratively speaking workshop with Rebecca and this would be a great add on to apply all the gained knowledge in zbrush...i just know basics of it and would like to learn some more...

alifarmer
04-25-2006, 03:23 PM
Yea, i'm interested in this. Definately could do with brushing up on ZBrush and at the same time learning about some human anatomy.

Nice one. Would love to see any of your ZBrush models Simon. Got any links?

Cheers,

Ali

SpiritDreamer
04-25-2006, 03:25 PM
Hi....Simon
Is this the thread where the work will be posted, just want to make sure that I am in the
right place....new to Z BRUSH...just renewed my demo version....don't want to miss the
beginning of this class. should I make a hand in two and a half D and go from there,...I think I might be able to get that far, I have only done a few faces so far using Z BRUSH ...posted them on the last three or four pages of my anatomy thread.... or is there
a set procedure that you have planned....step by step kind of thing....just curious....
THANKS for doing this work shop by the way....am really looking forward to learning Z BBUSH...
TAKE CARE
Glenn

Simon
04-25-2006, 04:59 PM
Glen: Best we keep it all in this thread just post your Wips in here once you've made some progress, or hit a problem. This thread is my first workshop, and I don't want to limit us to any set format, so just get posting your stuff and if I feel we need more direction I'll jump in and take the reigns!

Ali: At the NCCA! I've been accepted for a place on the animation course, hehe my z-brush stuff impressed them enough, I guess. :) (the selection was pretty harsh though). I'll try and find some z-brush stuff that isnt under NDA to post. All the models on my site probably have z-brush in there. such as the bunker etc.. But that stuffs all pretty old now.

CgIcecube: Hey welcome to the workshop!

Is there anything specific that anyone wants me to cover?

I'm going to start modelling the hand now. :)

Lets get going!

Simon
04-25-2006, 06:11 PM
Ok lets start on the anterior view of the hand. Heres a quick 20 mins.

Start by looking at where the bones fall within the hand and adding the creases. Think of it as a collection of cylinders.



Start low res to get the proportion right and then slowly work up. The above image is still at very low res.

Your best friend and worst enemy is the smooth (shift) tool. You want be careful, to avoid the z-brush blobbyness that starts to creep in, and to keep the form.

SHIFT-Ctrl drag is also very useful to hide what your not working on (like the rest of the arm.. or the other fingers)

Use the set pivot point to centralise the pivot to where your working otherwise rotation will be a pain.

-Si

Rebeccak
04-25-2006, 07:52 PM
Simo,

Perhaps you could show some step by step screen shots and explanation of how you got to this point, and maybe some tool pointers for beginners. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Simon
04-25-2006, 07:59 PM
I'm just uploading a flash video tutorial of how I got to that point. ;)

Rebeccak
04-25-2006, 08:00 PM
Awesome! Thanks! :)

alifarmer
04-25-2006, 08:12 PM
Hey Simon,

Cool you got into the NCCA. :thumbsup: They are currently building all brand spanking new labs for our course next year with swish new little bars and cafes. Unfortunately, am in my final year so will be missing out on that :sad:

Anyway... back to the workshop.

Have you made the base mesh in Maya first or did you build it from scratch in zBrush?

I'm no expert on anatomy but the proportions of the hand look to be a bit off. Most noticeably the thumb is too high up, which kind of makes it look a bit like a monkeys foot. If you look at the distance between the start of the forefinger and the start of the thumb, its generally a lot longer than in your model.

The palm is quite bloated at the bottom, while there is more muscle mass there, it doesnt come so far in the middle bit of the bottom (if that makes sense). The little finger seems like it could be a touch too long, normally it will end about the second crease of the ring finger is. I think it looks worse than it is because of the large distance between the two creases in the little finger.

I know you've just started so there's no point being too nitpicky, but the last thing i've noticed is that the fingers seem pretty fat at the bottom -there is adefined crease between the fingers and palm, but on a hand with the fingers straight up there is barely any crease at all.

Just my thoughts from looking at my own hand :shrug: Very busy with project work at the mo but really want to try out modelling my own hand and get some zBrush practice at some point. Will be good to learn some useful tips from this thread before i start my own. :)

Simon
04-25-2006, 08:27 PM
Hey Ali

Thanks for those crits,

The hand is (or was meant to be) slightly tensed (clawed, like you are holding something), but the screenshot has no shadow so it impossible to really see the curves in the fingers which perhaps need to be reinforced (as they appear too straight). The little finger is bad and just goes to show what happens if you rush.. :D . It isnt as curved as it should be and as you said the creases are way too far apart.

Thanks for the input. When these uploads stop failing I'll build one a bit slower and get it right this time!

Si

CENOBITE
04-25-2006, 09:31 PM
Is your model done entirely in Zbrush?

Simon
04-25-2006, 09:49 PM
Is your model done entirely in Zbrush?

It started off as a few simple cubes in lightwave. Then got the z-brush treatment.


Hmm the tutorial came out at 30 meg as a swf.. :wip:

Simon
04-25-2006, 10:51 PM
Flash Video part one

Importing the model and understanding the basics of the interface.

play here (http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/tut1.swf)


Notes: For navigation.

Press spacebar, click and drag to move your canvas around.

+ and - to Zoom I/O
0 to 100% zoom
ctrl 0 to Half sized AA zoom

E to scale
R for rotate

Rebeccak
04-25-2006, 10:56 PM
Hey that's very cool Simo! Thanks! :)

You may want to update all (or select) Workshop Announcement threads as you post new material such as your video tuts.

Here are links to all the Announcements I posted:

General Discussion (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=349982&highlight=Workshop%3A+Digital+Anatomy+Sculpture+human+hand+Simon+Roth)

Anatomy Forum Tutorial Ideas Thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=341006&highlight=Workshop%3A+Digital+Anatomy+Sculpture+human+hand+Simon+Roth)

Autodesk 3D Max Forum (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=349998&highlight=Workshop%3A+Digital+Anatomy+Sculpture+human+hand+Simon+Roth)

ZBrush Forum (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=349994&highlight=Workshop%3A+Digital+Anatomy+Sculpture+human+hand+Simon+Roth)

Anatomy Forum Main Page (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=349993&highlight=Workshop%3A+Digital+Anatomy+Sculpture+human+hand+Simon+Roth)

CGSociety General Discussions (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=349990&highlight=Workshop%3A+Digital+Anatomy+Sculpture+human+hand+Simon+Roth)

Alias / Autodesk Maya Forum (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=349989&highlight=Workshop%3A+Digital+Anatomy+Sculpture+human+hand+Simon+Roth)

Modeling Forum (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=349984&highlight=Workshop%3A+Digital+Anatomy+Sculpture+human+hand+Simon+Roth)

Oops, looks like we both posted ads in the two of the same forums. :D I can delete one or the other if you like. :)

EDIT: I'll leave them up, as I don't know which threads people may have subscribed to.

What I would do is to post to a select number of these threads text something along the lines of, "Subscribe to this thread to hear about updates including new video tutorial material". Make sure to bookmark the threads you've posted this message to. Then when you post an important set of updates to this Workshop thread, go back to each of those bookmarked threads and announce your update (only once). Once people become aware of this thread, they'll just subscribe here. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Simon
04-25-2006, 11:03 PM
Hehe got another 5 to edit together! Just to cover the basics of getting sculpting!


EDIT LMAO I didnt see we'd done that. Whoa.. I also didnt notice you'd posted so many! Thanks!

I best get those videos done quick!

Corvax
04-25-2006, 11:17 PM
Hey Simon.

So now, I'm thinking of how to go about this, and something sprung to mind:

Is it possible to take a mesh into Zbrush, sculpt it, then take a low sub-division back into my conventional 3d pagage and repose it, take it back into Zbursh and have the detail in the higher sub-divisions remain intact?

I have no Idea if this is possible, hw its done or if my question even makes sense. :)

anyway I would appreciate any help.

--David René.

Simon
04-25-2006, 11:24 PM
Hi

You would be able to take the low subdivision model back to a 3d app but you would lose the higher levels of subdivision.

You could export the highly detailed mesh to your 3d app but a mesh of several million polys would kill most conventional apps.

An option would be to export the low res mesh with a displacement map to retain the details, and then detail it by painting that map.

..hope i'm making sense..

-Si

Corvax
04-25-2006, 11:39 PM
Simon:

thanks for the quick reply .. nah exporting a displacement map was not what I had in mind .. I was thinking more of being able to modelling the general detail with the hand in a more uniform pose, and then reposing it and doing the more specific stuff in the final pose..

I'll browse around for a while and see if I can come up with something anything along those lines .. or I'm just gonna have to model the whole thing in the final pose. :)

--David René.

LordMcGoat
04-25-2006, 11:39 PM
Hey Simon.

So now, I'm thinking of how to go about this, and something sprung to mind:

Is it possible to take a mesh into Zbrush, sculpt it, then take a low sub-division back into my conventional 3d pagage and repose it, take it back into Zbursh and have the detail in the higher sub-divisions remain intact?

I have no Idea if this is possible, hw its done or if my question even makes sense. :)

anyway I would appreciate any help.

--David René.

Actually this is possible, and a really useful feature of Zbrush. You can import any mesh at any subdivision level as long as the vertex count and order remains exactly the same. That's crucial. But it's so handy especially for people who are used to modelling in a conventional 3d app - say you get stuck in with some nice details in Zbrush, then sit back and realise your proportions are screwed, you can take the lowest res mesh out (just with the export option), adjust the proportions using the 3d app you are comfortable with, say using a lattice to modify things, take it back into ZBrush and your higher subdivision levels will be exactly the same, just offset to accomodate your new mesh.

If you need to model a hundred corrective blendshapes or something it's invaluble.

I can only speak for maya because it's what I use, but when you import go to import options and for "Create multiple objects" hit false. This will preserve your vertex order. Verrryyy imporrrtant when you have ZBrush in your pipeline i've shed so many tears over my vertex order getting changed...

Corvax
04-25-2006, 11:50 PM
Lord McGoat:

Ahh excellent.. so I'm pretty sure I can get the obj-exporting from Maya to work. Im more curious as to how it would work in Zbrush.. would I have my tool active an then go the sub-division I exported ad and then re-import it..? I'm a bit shaky on the Zbrush part- would you mind doing a really quick tutorial or pointing me to where I might learn more about this?

--David René.

Simon
04-25-2006, 11:50 PM
ACk yeah. *looks shamefully at the floor*.

Hadn't thought about that, I guess I have a habit of overlooking things I can't do with my toolset.

pisano
04-26-2006, 12:07 AM
My desktop should be up and running in about 2 or 3 dayz, any tips on how to prepare my self till all is well again?,

btw, i'm for this shop as well, so in the words of mr hankey "hiighdeehoeeee", i love x-mass pooh.

also, i haven;t ever touched Z brush yet, so i might be a lagging a bit behind you guys.

LordMcGoat
04-26-2006, 12:12 AM
Lord McGoat:

would I have my tool active an then go the sub-division I exported ad and then re-import it..?

--David René.

Yup that's exactly it :) Not sure whether I need to elaborate more than that really, but just so it's all clear -


With your tool active, go the subdivision level in zbrush you want to export
Go tool -> export
Import your mesh into maya with "Create multiple objects" set to false in import options
Do anything you like without changing the amount of edges, verts, or faces
Back in Zbrush, with your tool still active, make sure you're at the correct subdivision level
Hit tool->import, and import your mesh
As a side note, this will also import the uvs, so you can do your full model in Zbrush, and if you want the uving done somewhere else, just take the model out and back in again with its new uvs.

Simon
04-26-2006, 12:12 AM
My desktop should be up and running in about 2 or 3 dayz, any tips on how to prepare my self till all is well again?,

btw, i'm for this shop as well, so in the words of mr hankey "hiighdeehoeeee", i love x-mass pooh.

also, i haven;t ever touched Z brush yet, so i might be a lagging a bit behind you guys.

No problem, join whenever, I'm going to cover all the basics in videos and tuts. (that you will need for the thread). I'm a bit rusty on z-brush myself as I've been strictly 2d for the last 4 months. (lol why did I volenteer!?).

Rebeccak
04-26-2006, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by Simo: I'm a bit rusty on z-brush myself as I've been strictly 2d for the last 4 months. (lol why did I volenteer!?).
No one knows everything about a program. ;) The beauty of these Workshops is that you get a lot of different perspectives. There are certainly tons of better artists than me participating in the OFDWs. It's just about learning from each other. :)

Cheers,

~Rk

Corvax
04-26-2006, 12:27 AM
Lord McGoat:
thanks of help.:thumbsup:
Just tried it out.. works like a charm ..:applause: Bloody brilliant in my opinion.

--David René.

pisano
04-26-2006, 12:35 AM
Big up for cg talk, learners playgorund.

Simon
04-26-2006, 12:50 AM
Ok cutting video was hurting my head so I did a quick rundown of some of the tools in the transform menu that will be handy for this thread. (contributions welcome ;) )

http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/Sculpting%20tools.jpg

argonaut
04-26-2006, 03:04 AM
I'm in. Love me some zbrushin' . I made a hand about a month ago, so it will be interesting to see how I am able to do this time. a question: Is it okay for me to post my 2d paintings if they dont have anything to do with anatomy in this forum, as I am trying to learn how to use color and make 2d stuff digitally. Would I put this in a personal sketchbook thread? thanks. Hopefully I can also scan in some of my traditional stuff to.

Rebeccak
04-26-2006, 03:38 AM
Originally posted by argonaut: Is it okay for me to post my 2d paintings if they dont have anything to do with anatomy in this forum, as I am trying to learn how to use color and make 2d stuff digitally. Would I put this in a personal sketchbook thread? thanks. Hopefully I can also scan in some of my traditional stuff to.
Hi argonaut, welcome to the Anatomy Forum. :) I'll endeavor to answer this part of the question (Simo is likely asleep now anyway, being in the UK and whatnot). ;)

Personally, I really don't mind your posting non~anatomy work here, but typically the place to post non~Anatomy work is here:

WIP/Critique: 2D, Illustrations and Concept Art (http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=31)

Where you will get a lot of advice and feedback from a generally active community. :)

However, many people choose to keep personal threads both there and here on the Anatomy Forum, and that is more than fine by me.

Here on the Anatomy Forum, the place to post your own thread is here:

Personal Anatomy & Sketchbook Threads (http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=200)

See this thread for basic info. regarding setting up your own Anatomy Thread:

FAQ: Can I Create My Own Anatomy Thread? (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=341167)

If you are interested in drawing / painting people, either digitally or traditionally, the following Workshops are recommended:

I5 Minute Sketchathon - Thread 2: Sketches (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=295498)
For fast, gestural studies.

Open Figure Drawing Workshops (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2602753&postcount=3)
For long term studies (2~4 weeks) where we are lately doing Master Copies. The lastest OFDW is OFDW 016 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=349580), which just started and will continue for the next 4 weeks. I always encourage people to participate in the latest OFDW, so that people can work as a group.

Anyone may create their own Anatomy Thread and join / leave the Workshops at any time. Hope to see your participation! :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

depleteD
04-26-2006, 06:33 AM
Yea I'm tottaly down for this. I'll start tommorow

Simon
04-26-2006, 07:53 AM
Thanks Rebeccak, yeah I was alseep then.. annoying time difference!

Andrew : Welcome to the thread!

erilaz
04-26-2006, 12:49 PM
Little work built from my own base mesh:

http://www.artfuloddities.com/3D/Studies/Zbrush/Hand001WIP001.jpg

Long way to go!

Simon
04-26-2006, 01:24 PM
Good start! The part of the hand on the right looks a bit wide, (after the 5th metacarpal), but I have no real crits now as its pretty early on. Keep going!

You doing a Sp today Martin?

SpiritDreamer
04-26-2006, 11:38 PM
Hi
This is my first attempt at a hand using Zbrush. Still trying to get the feel for these new brushes. Far from perfect - alot of mistakes. But had a blast doing it. Think I will stick to the 2.5D til I get used to these brushes.

Simon: Can you please write a little something or do a little demo on how to work the symmetry part - I would like to be able to automatically do the other half of the faces so I can spin them around. If that is possible.

Take care
Glenn


http://artbyglenngallegos.com/images/FIRST_HAND_4.jpg

Simon
04-27-2006, 12:37 AM
Hey Glen

Don't worry it takes a while to get used to z-brush as it can feel very alien at times. Thats a good start, i made something pretty similar when I first downloaded the demo.

If you want to activate symmetry on an object in edit mode just hit X Y or Z and the symmetry will be activated hit the key again and it will be deactivated. You can also have more than one activated at once. You will see red vertices where the symmetry will apply your brush.

I hope that helps.

gimmie a shout if you need more help!

-Simon

ryankingslien
04-27-2006, 04:37 AM
Well, how can you pass this up! Thanks for making me even further behind in my workload and getting me another few hours into ZBrush. :twisted:

The image:

http://www.numinous3d.com/temp/handZsphere.jpg

And, because I think you guys are sooo cool, the ZScript (http://www.numinous3d.com/temp/handSculpt_Zscript.zip). :)

Done in zspheres. Notes have been added to the beginning part. The rest is all sculpting and it is long! About 45 minutes work or so. Much more work needs to be done but its a start! :)

Thanks again for the thread and the practice.

Cheers,

Ryan

Rebeccak
04-27-2006, 07:45 AM
Hey, you know when Ryan Kingslien shows up on your thread, your Workshop is not going so badly, Simo. ;)

Great to see you here Ryan!

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Simon
04-27-2006, 07:58 AM
Hey, you know when Ryan Kingslien shows up on your thread, your Workshop is not going so badly, Simo. ;)

Great to see you here Ryan!

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Ryans jsut helped me out with getting notes into z-scripts, it means I can now forget about bulky videos. :thumbsup:

Thats great stuff Ryan, thanks so much for contributing!

Rebeccak
04-27-2006, 08:07 AM
Nice! :) Ryan's a very generous guy. It's not surprising that he'd lend a hand Simo.

Cheers,

~Rk

CgIcecube
04-27-2006, 09:11 AM
For this workshop...can i use an exported low poly mesh?..or should i create it with zspheres?..Although i m soon going to upload here my lowpoly model of hand, but if for this workshop we need to create it in Zbrush then,plz guide us Simon for creating a hand in Zbrush with Zspheres...with a demo:)

Simon
04-27-2006, 01:59 PM
For this workshop...can i use an exported low poly mesh?..or should i create it with zspheres?..Although i m soon going to upload here my lowpoly model of hand, but if for this workshop we need to create it in Zbrush then,plz guide us Simon for creating a hand in Zbrush with Zspheres...with a demo:)

Hey

Sure you can use a poly mesh you've modelled one. Remember we are learning anatomy, and creating art, do what ever you feel comfortable doing.

Creating a hand with z-spheres is relatively easy. I think Ryans workflow above shows how. Just run his z-script in z-brush. I'll create a tut for using z-spheres when I get home tonight if you need one. :)

Simon
04-27-2006, 04:28 PM
Just finnished watching Ryans..

Great workflow there!

I'll get one recorded asap. I think a clenched fist would be interesting.

Simon
04-27-2006, 06:48 PM
http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/Clawed%20hand.jpg

Heres a z-sphere model for you guys to play with. It should be very accurate. Be sure to click "Show actions" if you want to see the how its made.

The script (http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/Sculpting_hand.zip)


Edit: adding another z-pheres a few increments up from the base of each finger might give you a nicer mesh to work with between the fingers.


Cheers

-Simon

Simon
04-27-2006, 08:37 PM
Heres an update, but adjusted a few things to make it better.

(just the ztl)

Download Link (http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/base_mesh.ZTL)

Simon
04-27-2006, 11:01 PM
http://www.machinestudios.co.uk/Hand/hand2.jpg

Needs more work on the wrist.

Rebeccak
04-27-2006, 11:07 PM
My precious! :D Wow, Simo, that rocks!

Simon
04-28-2006, 09:45 AM
Just checking in. Hows everyone doing? Any new models people?

CgIcecube
04-29-2006, 06:57 PM
Simon: Hey thanks, gr8 to see the hand demo in Zscript!..
Here posting a base mesh frm 3dsmax, will be importing it in Zbrush and later will also update you with work done with Zspheres...

Simon
04-29-2006, 08:20 PM
Hey no problem Richa! Its great to see that people have been working on their meshes. :)

I look forward to seeing what you come up with. :)


I'll try and get another hand model done tonight. (once I've got some 2d portraits done)

When more people have got some models done I will do some tuts on creating your own alphas to add the creasing in the hands.

-Simo

SpiritDreamer
04-30-2006, 12:06 AM
Hi Simon

This is what I came up with today. In between power failures that ruined three pieces that I was working on...
Used the cylinder shape - kind of stretched the hand out from it -
trying to do a fist this time.
Thanks for the instructions. Will be trying them out shortly.
Take Care
Glenn

http://artbyglenngallegos.com/images/HAND_SCULPTURE_6.jpg

Simon
04-30-2006, 02:03 AM
Good stuff Glen. They are losing focus a bit on the top.

I'd reccomend if your going to work from primatives to work from a cube or sphere, because the cylinder's topology makes it difficult to work on the top. (eg the cap on will always become triangles radiating out from a single vertex) If you do another try with them, and see if it works better. :)

I look forward to your next updates!

-Si

Jack Shannon
04-30-2006, 12:46 PM
Wow, I want to do this, I have never tried 3d before, but it looks fun, how can I get started?

Simon
04-30-2006, 01:46 PM
Hey jack!

Just download the demo on the first part. And follow the video tut I made for getting the base mesh model into the program. :)

Goodluck!

SpiritDreamer
04-30-2006, 04:46 PM
Hi Simon
Tried the cube and sphere couldn't get a hand will try again
Worked from the cylinder again this morning. Feels more like the rounded wedge shape of the upper portion of the hand to me. My goal with Zbrush is to try to adapt what I am learning with it to what I already know in Painter 9. Want to end up with a Zbrush/Painter 9 combination painting technique. I don't have any 3D or animation goal - yet. That's a little out of my league at the moment.
Really appreciate all the help you have been giving me. Proving very useful.
Take care
Glenn

http://artbyglenngallegos.com/images/HAND_STUDY_2_7.jpg

Simon
04-30-2006, 05:03 PM
Hey Glen

Hows it going?

as for what shape you are going to carve out of, If it works for you then no problem. That study is looking pretty good.

As 2d tool, to use alongside painter z-brush definately wont dissapoint. :thumbsup:

I don't have any 3D or animation goal - yet. That's a little out of my league at the moment.

Well your hand studies are getting good, I would say give it a bit of practice and you'll well be able to make some nice 3d stuff!

-Simon

fx81
05-01-2006, 06:11 AM
very cool thread, should have found it earlier.
dont have anything to post yet but i have a base mesh of a hand and the rig to pose it.
ill get them ready for download soon so everyone (using maya) can pose it and export it to zbrush for sculpting.

Simon
05-01-2006, 09:39 PM
For a bit of fun.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1c/Polydactyly_01_Lhand_AP.jpg

ZaKKoS
05-03-2006, 08:11 PM
Oh well...still needs a lot of work but i'm quite happy being the first time i'm using zbrush :)

http://www.toolbox67.com/zak/ZHand.png

side effect - thread bumped :buttrock::p

Simon
05-03-2006, 08:57 PM
First time using z-brush?

Thats great!

The third finger looks a little thin on the image from above the hand.

Keep going!

-Si

ricma
05-03-2006, 09:31 PM
Hi guys, I have just bumped into this thread :) Well, here is a hand model i did some time ago. It was done in Maya, nurbs patch model...I am aware that there are areas which need a lot of improvement, but besides concentrating on the overal shape, I payed a lot attention to the patch modeling technique which I`d like to master...

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/783/hand0pf.gif

Oh, I have now realised that this a a z-brush thread...sorry guys for posting in the unappropriate thread

Rebeccak
05-03-2006, 09:43 PM
ricma,

No worries. :) I don't think Simo will mind your using the software package of your choice. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Simon
05-04-2006, 05:41 PM
Hi guys, I have just bumped into this thread :) Well, here is a hand model i did some time ago. It was done in Maya, nurbs patch model...I am aware that there are areas which need a lot of improvement, but besides concentrating on the overal shape, I payed a lot attention to the patch modeling technique which I`d like to master...

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/783/hand0pf.gif

Oh, I have now realised that this a a z-brush thread...sorry guys for posting in the unappropriate thread

Hey!

No problem about the software, this thread is more about nailing good anatomy.

Its a great model, the proportions seem great! Maybe the wrist could do with a little more detail. :)

Thanks for posting that. How long did it take?

Sorry about my slow replies guys, I've been trying to get a dissertation ready in the last few days. I'll extend the deadline also, as one and a half weeks went in a flash!

-Simon

ricma
05-06-2006, 10:39 AM
Hi Simon,
thanks :) I can`t say for sure how much time I spent on this model, but lets say it was a day. Now I belive I`d do it in a few hours. Basicaly I started from a cylinder for a finger, tweaked it to get a decent shape (added isoparms where needed as well) and then coppied it for all other fingers and adjusted accordingly. The rest of the hand is also a cylinder roughly modeled in desired shape and then cut into patches.
I also scanned my own hand (palm side) and used it as a reference image plane.
The part I don`t like are the knuckles, hand looks flat from the side view.
That is a model I did a long time ago, came to this point and never got back to it to refine it...

Oh, and good luck with your dissertation.

Take care.

SpiritDreamer
05-08-2006, 11:20 PM
HI Simon

Another hand study. Concentrating on the thumb joint mostly.
Hey
I have a question:
When I am in the 3d mode, I can't figure out how to use the other brushes without losing the 3d capability of spinning it around....
If you have time could you do a little step by step on how to use the other brushes and keep the 3d going at the same time?
Probably something simple...I just can't figure it out.
Thanks.
Take care
Glenn

http://artbyglenngallegos.com/images/Zbrush_HAND_STUDY_3L.jpg

Simon
05-08-2006, 11:58 PM
Hey glen.

Great to see you back here. :)

When you are talking about brushes where do you mean?

If your talking about the ones in the tools menu, I could create a tut for the use of them in projection master?

SpiritDreamer
05-10-2006, 04:07 PM
Hi..Simon....I was wondering if it is posible to use the tools and textures in Z BRUSH, at the same time
that I am in the 3D MODE, WITHOUT having to go out of the 3D mode and do just a section at a time....kind of ruines the momentum that way...having to stop and start all the time.
Would like to be able to just spin it around, so I can work on piece from all different angle's
without having to stop every two seconds...flatten image out, work on it a little, then go back into 3D, spin it to new angle, stop flatten out again...ect. ect.
Does the Z BRUSH program allow for working on peice cotinually with all the tools and textures while in the 3D mode
Also...how do I get my piece back into the 3D mode, once I save it, and shut the program off.

That tut that you mentioned of how to use the tools in projection master, sounds great to me,
that is if you have the time...know you are pretty busy most of the time, but I really could use
the help in understanding this program better.
Just posted my first 3D FACE AND NECK in my anatomy thread...check it out, if you have the time...talk to you later...
TAKE CARE
Glenn

Womball
05-12-2006, 02:51 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/mayaman2/handspart1.jpg

This took me about 2 hours. :eek: Hopefully I will get faster with more experience, I want to try to become a professional modeler even though I'm an animation major. Needs a lot of work but I think it can be made into something nice. I tried the zsphere approach however when I create a zsphere and hit A to preview the geometry I only have half of a sphere displayed! This creates weird looking objects when you link the zspheres.
The current hand I built a simple hand in blender of about 100 or so polys. Than I exported that as an obj file into z-brush.

Simon
05-13-2006, 12:34 AM
Nice contribution Womball, welcome to the thread!

The thickness of the finger perhaps varies too much, but for a beggining in z-brush thats pretty good! Keep going with it. :)

2 hours isnt half bad for a begginner. Thing is with z-brush is once you get into it the time just flies by. :D


I promise I'll update this thread more soon guys.

-Simon

Womball
05-13-2006, 05:11 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/mayaman2/hands.jpg

Another 2 hours. THis is a zbrush render using sokar's skin material and lighting. I hope you don't mind, but I mirrored this over at zbrushcentral. :eek: Hopefully that wasn't a bad idea. Um I have the original mesh in an obj file. How would I upload that here?

Luis Faus
05-13-2006, 06:17 PM
Hello there;

I saw womball thread in zbc with the link to here, and i was reading through and my only question is, does it need to be a human hand? or can be a breed of a human hand, like for example a creepy human hand with long nasty nails?

Womball
05-13-2006, 06:30 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/mayaman2/handsday3.jpg

Day 3 slight touch ups, about another 2 hours maybe less. The forms are almost there, I turned off the shader so you could see the forms better. I am going to photograph my hand to create alphas for the tiny wrinkles. I'm finding it to to hard to manually paint, and with project master it would be much easier. The trick with PM is to not paint near the sides of a projection. This will cause annoying projection mistakes that require either smoothing or color corrections which can become complex depending on the area. I use the scale brush so I can scale the wrinkles to fit the hand. I'm using Mahlikas (sic) the Black's lighting. Default lighting obscures a lot of details. I also have a model of the hand I did for class which I built from the bones up. No skin though.

Simon
05-13-2006, 08:24 PM
Thats great man, its really come along since your first image.

The thing that jumps right out at me is strength of the crease in the centre of the hand. Particulary on the top image it looks like the hand is caved-in at the base of the hand and inflated on the right and left of it. Perhaps reduce the amount it sticks out running down from the palm. -hope that makes sense.

But nice work none the less. :) Keep going!

Simon

mic
05-13-2006, 09:54 PM
Thought I'd join the fun.

http://myhome.mweb.co.za/~20417550/temp/hand_01.jpg
http://myhome.mweb.co.za/~20417550/temp/hand_02.jpg

Womball
05-13-2006, 09:58 PM
That looks better than mine! Very nice job! I probably should pose mine it too, then I could model the tendons easier. I was thinking of rigging it, but to get the tendons to work right is just frightening.

Simon
05-13-2006, 10:07 PM
Michor thats fantastic.

You model that 100% z-brush or did you bring in a base mesh? How long did that take? :)

I like the skin folding below the 5th finger. nice touch.

-Simon

ricma
05-13-2006, 10:09 PM
mic,
what a great model!!! It looks very realistic, the bone structure is just awesome, and the flesh deformations are amazing!
:thumbsup:

argonaut
05-13-2006, 10:54 PM
arggg, too much school work..

I need to fix somethings with general structure then im gonna use projectiion master to refine the wrinkles. Made from zspheres

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f251/argonaut2/Modeling2hand.jpg

Simon
05-13-2006, 11:56 PM
Hello there;

I saw womball thread in zbc with the link to here, and i was reading through and my only question is, does it need to be a human hand? or can be a breed of a human hand, like for example a creepy human hand with long nasty nails?

Hey.

Yeah you can do what you want. :) Obviously not too OTT, but if its working off a human hand then it will be fine.

Heh.. My reference is pretty creepy. :p

mic
05-14-2006, 09:33 PM
Michor thats fantastic.

You model that 100% z-brush or did you bring in a base mesh? How long did that take? :)

I like the skin folding below the 5th finger. nice touch.

-Simon

Thanks Simon.

I did the low poly base model in XSI then took it to Zbrush for everything else. It probably took me about 3 hrs to get to this point.

Womball
05-15-2006, 03:16 PM
Hmmm about half as long as mine took. I was looking at your gallery you seem to have a very strong grasp of anatomy! The picture is stunning!

Corvax
05-17-2006, 07:44 PM
blub.. and David joins in the game .. better late then never. :)

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/covax123/Zhand.jpg

-David René.

pisano
05-18-2006, 11:14 AM
blub.. and David joins in the game .. and aidan is finally here, finally got up to speed with my life and attempted my first Zbrush model, did get pretty weird and wirey at first but i did it again and again, heres something i cooked up:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/celeste_malta/hand.jpg

I also recoommend using teh CTRL+SHIFT FEATURE which bounds up the area you wish to work on so not to mess up the rest. Once i figure out how to inc the poly count i 'l start adding details and repost. Thankz for you patience Tweek, i mean Sim. I'm off to the gym might catch the spinning class , great chance to study fat gravity and motion :).

pisano
05-18-2006, 02:50 PM
its mostly based on my own hand , which i love dearly for the torture it goes trhough everyday from sketching, to writing to barbell and dumbell burns. tell me what my future is so far :

Simon
05-18-2006, 02:57 PM
Nice one aiden. Glad to see you here. :)

Thats very good! I guess your still working on the higher res.

From one angle the little finger looks rather thick. Perhaps it needs thinning down a little.

-Si

Simon
05-18-2006, 03:53 PM
Oh, I missed your post david.. strange I usualy get emails..

Thats a good start, perhaps work on the fingers more now?

can't wait to see what everyone comes up with!

Womball
05-23-2006, 10:49 PM
Sorry I haven't worked on the hand lately. I'm trying to finish my Journey 3d entry. I think the deadline is either this Friday or Saturday. I'm aiming for finishing everything on Friday.

argonaut
05-26-2006, 02:01 AM
still a lot of work left to do...



http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f251/argonaut2/Modeling3-hand.jpg

Simon
05-28-2006, 09:07 PM
Argonaut.

thats nice work!

My first crit is that some of the creases look a little broken up. How are you sculpting them? I can help you get them smoother.


Edit: Eeek times up people!

That went way too fast!

Womball
05-29-2006, 06:47 PM
Seems like I will continue my hand in the wip section! Or a womball anatomy thread (doesn't have a ring to it). I want to try master sculpting the hand. So I'm going to take my time with it. Muahahahaha no deadlines!

Simon
05-31-2006, 12:04 AM
Seems like I will continue my hand in the wip section! Or a womball anatomy thread (doesn't have a ring to it). I want to try master sculpting the hand. So I'm going to take my time with it. Muahahahaha no deadlines!

Well at least keep us updated here. ;)

Rebeccak
05-31-2006, 12:28 AM
Simo,

Thank you for running this Workshop! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Simon
06-01-2006, 12:49 AM
Simo,

Thank you for running this Workshop! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Thanks Beccak!

I wish I had had more time to contribute. A few weeks goes very fast! I had so much planned. :P

Its good to see how much Glen got into 3d sculpting in z-brush. :) This thread doesnt really do justice to the amount of people that got modelling through emails and PM's.

Cheers

-Simo

Rebeccak
06-01-2006, 07:00 AM
Simo,

It would be great to see you participate in the OFDWs! :) Hop aboard, there is still til June 18th for OFDW 017 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=360025). I seem to remember your saying you wanted to participate in one of these! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Flydesign
08-22-2006, 08:55 AM
I thought that this was a cool thread and wanted to jump in and share. I think I'm weak on my hand skills in ZBrush and was looking forward for some advice. I created the base mesh in Maya and then of course imported into ZBrush.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/mattdesign/Hand.jpg

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