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PaulS2
05-09-2007, 12:00 PM
Impressive stuff. Will there be a demo that works with the demo version of C4D? I'd really like to test this C4D/Vray combo.:)

Yes, I'm also curious if there is to be a fence-sitter's demo. I haven't upgraded to C4D V10 as I've been waiting for Vray bridge to be completed first.

Another vote for a vray demo which works with the C4D demo.

kossoolli
05-09-2007, 12:04 PM
When? When?? When???

Give us a date please...

chris_b
05-09-2007, 03:10 PM
Yes indeed... it looks so close to completion, what's left?

corack
05-09-2007, 05:28 PM
Hi there

Unfortunately the video seems do be down. Could some please repost it? Im so exited.^^

AdamT
05-09-2007, 05:54 PM
" But did I see it right, that Renato used EnhanceC4D Shader?"

yes!

all shaders that are generating "texture-structures" are supported, some special thirdparty shaders might not work, but all "normal" one do work. not only enhenced c4d haders.

we just use enhenced shaders very often as they complement the c4d shaders and vray very nice....

cheers
stefan
Do you happen to know if the Reference Shader plugin works with it?

Afrowave
05-09-2007, 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by RenatoT
Another little pill.

http://www.c4dportal.com/%7Erenatot...omeVrayTest.mov (http://www.c4dportal.com/%7Erenatot/VrayTest/SomeVrayTest.mov)

Dear Renato, the file that this link points to seems to have been removed. I wouldn't be suprised since I guess everyone who keeps an eye on this thread downloaded all 79MBs. I wanted to download it yesterday and I should have...
You guys are the one people who will change our lives. With all respect to Maxon :wavey: Even Here in East Africa, I am getting the Oct-Core and C4D 10.X (maybe 10.5) and get my pre-ordered VrayforC4d (hint hint..) in June, is that ok with you?:)

NicoAdri
05-09-2007, 07:19 PM
"You guys are the one people who will change our lives..."

Hey!!! That's getting a bit too close to worship...but then again they may be my gods too...:-)

Adri

RenatoT
05-09-2007, 10:49 PM
AdamT:

i've tried the Reference Shaders. It working at 50% because can't look trought the VrayShaders.. so if you put a reference in c4d material and use it in vray material it work..
but if you try to get reference on vraymaterial is not working.

Maybe that the Shader Reference can add a support for our material. :)

to all:
i'll put a new video and i hope to make i smaller.

Cheers
Renato

Rich-Art
05-10-2007, 01:00 PM
That would be great. The reference shader is a real time saver....I use it a lot.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

Martin Kay
05-10-2007, 09:19 PM
I know you need Vs 10 of c4d to run vray, but do you also need the advanced render module, which mostly would seem to be redundant?

Martin K

jackb602
05-10-2007, 09:40 PM
Actually I believe Vray for C4D supports Cinema 9.6 and up. I'm pretty sure AR would be unnecessary.

LemonNado
05-10-2007, 10:06 PM
Keep in mind that VRay is not a replacement of AR. Hair cannot be rendered in Vray the same way it can in AR. So, you won't need AR to run VRay but you might need it if your requirements include specialised AR only functionality.
Rainer

bobtronic
05-10-2007, 10:28 PM
Hair cannot be rendered in Vray the same way it can in AR.

I think you are wrong here. It should be possible to sample the Hair renderer through the VolumeData and I believe Renato said it is working.

cheers,
Bob

stevester1
05-10-2007, 11:38 PM
Can't you convert the hair to geometry?

RenatoT
05-11-2007, 03:46 AM
Hi All,

AR is not needed to run Vray.
Ar have some special shaders effects that are supported from vray. So you can use these shaders on it.
The good is that in vray you can use all standard shaders.

About Hair i would like to support the videopost rendering and in theory can be done and i'm sure that with maxon help i can integrate it inside vray render.

Some weeks ago i made some test and this is the result:
http://www.tarabella.it/C4D/VrayForC4d/testHair.jpg

like you can see it's possible to acces to videopost hair rendering inside vray.
So after the first release of the bridge i'll work to integrate hair and all great maxon module on it.

Cheers
Renato

ngrava
05-11-2007, 04:46 AM
And yes, you can convert Hair to geometry and render it inside Vray just fine. I have a character that I have been testing with hair geometry and it seems to great. Vray is incredibly fast when rendering high amounts of polygons. The best way to do this is to choose "Flat" as the hair type under the generate tab and set it's alignment to "Look at camera". If it's OK with Renato and Stefan, I can post and image.

rsquires
05-11-2007, 04:49 AM
So after the first release of the bridge i'll work to integrate hair and all great maxon module on it.

Cheers
Renato

Does this mean on the first release that the MoGraph module won't be integrated. It would be sad if it wasn't

regards

rich

RenatoT
05-11-2007, 04:55 AM
HI all,

Galem:
this is ok for me :)

Rsquires:
Mograph module just generate a geometry and all module that generate a geometry will work.
The good things to do is to implemente the rendering instancing to do that to use less memory. This feature will be integrated in the next releases but now you can use all geometry generator included mograph, Jenna and similar things and they will be rendered exactly like c4d do.
About module i meant videopost module like hair, pyrocluster and so.

Cheers
Renato

lllab
05-11-2007, 08:12 AM
galen, post your tests, thats fine...

i also use mograph very often, and yes it works, also jenna i still love for many things and it works perfect, adn all other plugins that generate geometry.

renato meant the other "special" modules like hair and sketch and toon. with a bit support from maxon they can and will be integrated in next step.

first step is the renderengine, next step details and special integrations:-) Renato and Daniele are excellent programmers and the now have extreme deep knowledge of both vray and c4d.

so our render engine combines the best of both worlds, and we will try to make the best possiblöe vray incarnation out there:-)

cheers
stefan

RenatoT
05-11-2007, 09:04 AM
Hi All,

here a little shot with a Mblur test that is what i'm working now.
Just a nota random move :)

http://www.tarabella.it/C4D/VrayForC4d/MblurTest.jpg

Cheers
Renato

Rich-Art
05-11-2007, 09:07 AM
that looks great.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

osxman
05-11-2007, 11:09 AM
Since you are clearly spoiling us Renato, and there seem to be no limits to what you and Daniele can do, a question/request for future versions popped up :):

Although it's not a posteffect, is there any chance of having access to C4D's volumetric lighting (visible in reflection and refraction) in VRay? I'm guessing it would have to be done through som internal compositing trick.

Manual compositing is of course an option, but having an integrated solution is always preferred and would be great.

Or am I wrong about VRay not having volumetric lights??

Regards,
Stéphane

NicoAdri
05-11-2007, 12:37 PM
for those of us in Arch Viz and considering a purchase...

which bits of the new Architectural version of C4D will be VRayForC4D friendly?

http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/editions/architecture/architecture_e.html

TIA

Adri

tomglod
05-12-2007, 07:32 PM
Hi Guys,

I did a search on the thread for demo and it seems like the answer has not been given yet. Will there be a demo available?

Great job guys, I can't wait till this comes out...... this just puts C4D in a league of its own almost..... a whole new world is opening up. Thanks again guys.

RenatoT
05-12-2007, 11:46 PM
HI all,

osxman: No volumetric lights today.

tomglod: maybe that a demo will be ready, just we need to talk with chaosgroup about the vraydemo.

Cheers
Renato

tomglod
05-14-2007, 01:12 AM
Thats great news! Thanks

Erik Heyninck
05-14-2007, 08:20 AM
One probably silly question as I just discovered this thread (shame on me) and I don't have the courage to read all 70 pages: how about the learning curve? Does one need programming etc to get a good result, or is it really like CinemaAR (with add-ons)?

brammelo
05-14-2007, 10:05 AM
for those of us in Arch Viz and considering a purchase...

which bits of the new Architectural version of C4D will be VRayForC4D friendly?

There's probably a couple of typical AR-things that will not yet transfer to Vray, like Pyro (although I could be wrong). And then there's S&T, which cannot (yet?) be combined with Vray. All other things should work fine.

osxman
05-14-2007, 10:07 AM
...osxman: No volumetric lights today...
Thanks for the answer but...
...does that mean "perhaps tomorrow", as in version 1.1-1.2 or not until VRay supports it natively?

I wasn't asking about volumetric lights in 1.0. It was more of a theoretical question about the technical possibilities and perhaps a feature request.

Regards,
Stéphane

lllab
05-14-2007, 10:41 AM
@erik, no progamming skills are needed;-). the gi settings and materials have more choice, so give yourself a vew days to get into. but vray is actually quite straight forward. as said i also work on a material libary nad we give you presets for all to make start easy as possible...

volume light will be supported as soon the are in vray core. at the moment no version of vray supports volume lights. but i can imagine vlado will add this in future...

cheers
stefan

Lex1968
05-14-2007, 10:55 AM
Holy smoke. It took me 6 hours to read this entire thread.

I do have one question: I've red that VRAYforC4D supports (or works with) physical sky and a sunsetsystem. Does that mean that aerial perspective is supported? I mean the fact that things towards the horizon tend to become less saturated and take on a bluish tint. I really miss this item in C4D to achieve a realistic feeling of distance. I love the way this is done in Vue.

Cheers, Lex

osxman
05-14-2007, 11:49 AM
OK, thanks for your reply Stefan.

:),
Stéphane

v-empire
05-14-2007, 05:09 PM
More than 1 week, more than 2 weeks??

Thanks
Holger

dan22
05-14-2007, 06:27 PM
Looks like VRAY for SketchUp and Rhino have beaten us to it ?

Katachi
05-14-2007, 06:50 PM
Looks like VRAY for SketchUp and Rhino have beaten us to it ?

And TrueSpace :) Give them guys some time, better get something stable and working than a rushed release.

Katachi
05-14-2007, 06:53 PM
Holy smoke. It took me 6 hours to read this entire thread.

I do have one question: I've red that VRAYforC4D supports (or works with) physical sky and a sunsetsystem. Does that mean that aerial perspective is supported? I mean the fact that things towards the horizon tend to become less saturated and take on a bluish tint. I really miss this item in C4D to achieve a realistic feeling of distance. I love the way this is done in Vue.

Cheers, Lex

DPIT Nature Spirit has a PhysicalSky and Aerial Perspective effect. :)

lllab
05-15-2007, 07:17 AM
vray for rhino and truespace exist almost a year now( at least as beta)

so they havent beaten us-.they started a lot ealier.
actually the rhinoversion was the thing that brought me the idea to make vrayforc4d ourselves:-)
so i am very thankfull to rhinoversion!

cheers
stefan

lllab
05-15-2007, 07:18 AM
yes samirs sky is very nice too, maybe at some point he will also port it to vrayforc4d;-)?

cheers
stefan

Lex1968
05-15-2007, 09:00 AM
DPIT Nature Spirit has a PhysicalSky and Aerial Perspective effect. :)

Thanks Designer. I will have a look at this...

bluecanvas
05-15-2007, 12:51 PM
Renato,

Would it be a lot of trouble to add 'light modifier fields' to VrayForC4D?

I'm thinking of something similar to force fields in particles. As light passes through or near the modifier, light properties like color, intensity, shadow sampling, GI strength are modified in a controlled fashion and only for the area affected by the modifier field.

The primary use would be for fixing local lighting problems without having to resort to measures like increasing up the number of global GI bounces or tweaking the lighting setup for the entire scene.

Is this possible or would Vray not allow this kind of functionality to be added?

PaulS2
05-15-2007, 01:12 PM
vray for rhino and truespace exist almost a year now( at least as beta)

so they havent beaten us-.they started a lot ealier.
actually the rhinoversion was the thing that brought me the idea to make vrayforc4d ourselves:-)
so i am very thankfull to rhinoversion!

cheers
stefan

Glad you are thankful for Vray4Rhino:-) I tried it and have to say it is the most unintuative piece of software I have every used - all because it has no interface to speak of. It's results look good and in capable hands, I'm sure works well too.

I think C4D users will be fortunate in that they will have a familiar interface to use when using Vray4C4D. For example, C4D's material interface.

lllab
05-15-2007, 03:32 PM
yes i know what you mean paul;-)
, but i must say they had it harder because rhino doesnt offer as much possibilities as c4d does.

i think/hope our interface is much more fluent. i for myself forget that i am not in native renderer when using vray in c4d. i hope most will feel the same. we really tried hard to get it integrated very deep into c4d, but at the same time keep all deep features and options available. i think it is a powerfull combination with a good marriage of both vray and c4d...

cheers
stefan

PaulS2
05-15-2007, 03:57 PM
yes i know what you mean paul;-)
, but i must say they had it harder because rhino doesnt offer as much possibilities as c4d does.

i think/hope our interface is much more fluent. i for myself forget that i am not in native renderer when using vray in c4d. i hope most will feel the same. we really tried hard to get it integrated very deep into c4d, but at the same time keep all deep features and options available. i think it is a powerfull combination with a good marriage of both vray and c4d...

cheers
stefan

Yes, Rhino offers very little in cosmetic or even useful, niceties in the materials and render areas. I am using Brazil 4 Rhino with far more success as there 'is' an interface and the info feedback is just the right amount. Brazil is doing it right.

I think your idea on keeping the features intact, all the while maintaining an interface familiarity is very smart. Vray is a great render but without an interface it becomes almost painful to use.

C4D has a good interface and it's materials provide much useful info visualy - you should have a winner!

sketchbook
05-15-2007, 04:29 PM
this is no slam on the vray developers, but i think this would be nice:

can we PLEASE change the name of this thread to "coming soon: Vray for c4d" or something similar?

that way my heart doesn't skip a beat every time i look up and see this thread.

and then when it does become available, a new thread could be started "Now available: Vray for c4d" or something.

just a suggestion. :)

AnToni
05-15-2007, 04:40 PM
Vray poll:
http://asgvis.com/

I want V-Ray for...
Cinema4D ;-)

KsiKsu
05-16-2007, 08:12 AM
whats better ( better and faster render quality, specially sss and flicker free GI )


final render stage 2 or vray?

and whtas better integrated?

kossoolli
05-16-2007, 09:11 AM
I think both of them are fast, but VRay has the better image and light quality.

lllab
05-16-2007, 09:13 AM
hi,
this i can only answer as a personal opinion of course, and i am as producer not unbiased;-)

the image, GI, light, and AA quality of vray is much better, i think thats clear.
speed is about the same. fr can be minimal faster with not so much cores, but at lesser quality. vray is much faster on many cores like quad or octos and this with more beautiful image quality. overall both are very fast.

FR is integrrated very well and put a high integration standard.
but i think we have made a bit better:-) for me vray feels much more at home, most shaders work directly, even thirdparty, compositing tag works, material stacking works, the material layout is more close to c4d, no need for shader tree setups...etc...

at the end i think vray is the best combo when regarding quality/ speed/ interface. and we juts have started. 1.0 will be the first step of a longer development with ongoing development...i am very happy with the product already, Renato and Daniele did a wonderfull job.

but as said, i am of course nor unbiased in my opinion;-)

cheers
stefan
vrayforc4d

nSomnius
05-16-2007, 09:58 AM
I would really like make some use of the time before Vray for C4D is released in studying it, hitting the ground running, as it were. Is there a particularly C4D applicable source of reading material, or failing that, a solid primer?

castroman
05-16-2007, 10:28 AM
have you seen this?

http://www.spot3d.com/vray/help/150R1/index.htm

JDP
05-16-2007, 02:20 PM
Hi, I was just reading the VRay manual through the link provided above and saw a dongle mentioned in the license section. Will VRayForC4d require a dongle?

lllab
05-16-2007, 02:53 PM
no , no dongles in our version:-)

cheers
stefan

JDP
05-16-2007, 03:04 PM
Great, thanks Stefan.

stevester1
05-16-2007, 06:09 PM
Will Vray for C4D handle the Realflow mesh importer for C4D?

-I was wonderring since it uses a .bin file sequenece and I'm assuming all animation data must be transfered from C4D to Vray through the bridge.

lllab
05-16-2007, 07:00 PM
vray renders all geometry in c4d, so i think yes it should render that of course...
vray is now integrated in c4d, not a bridge:-)
cheers
stefan

LemonNado
05-16-2007, 09:47 PM
vray is now integrated in c4d, not a bridge:-)
cheers
stefan

Makes me even happier! And the wait more difficult haha.

Rainer

NicoAdri
05-17-2007, 08:15 PM
how about sketch and toon?

is this supported? not even sure if it needs to be at this stage in my learning?

this q may have been answered already, if so sorry for the repeat. I couldn't face going through the thread for hours looking.

TIA

Adri

Rich-Art
05-17-2007, 08:16 PM
Nope not supported..

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

artzfx
05-17-2007, 09:04 PM
Hi Stefan,

Just wondering if you guys had any thoughts if VRayforC4D will work with Vue 6 xStream for C4D? currently when a combined Vue xStream/C4D scene is rendered in C4D, all C4D objects render using C4D's renderer whilst Vue objects use the Vue renderer. Do you know if VRayforC4D would be able to kick in for the C4D side of things? excuse my ignorance, just not sure how VRayforC4D will integrate ie, do you set it as C4D's default renderer or do you have to stipulate for C4D to send the render to VRayforC4D each time a render is produced.

I know this question is a bit premature in your development but thought I would put it up for consideration.

Cheers,
Neil.

ngrava
05-17-2007, 10:16 PM
S&T: Actually, the shaders do work for the most part.

Vue: Sorry, this isn't possible right now. The whole way that it was done in the first place is pretty non-standard in the first place. However, it maybe possible for a future release. Renato has a lot up his sleeve but not quite enough time to implement it just yet. In the not to distant future you will most likely see support for most third party post effects and special renderers. But this isn't slated till after 1.0 is launched.

ngrava
05-17-2007, 10:18 PM
I also wanted to add that Vue can export a lot of what it does as polygon geometry. This is probably the best because then you can use it with Vray's superior renderer. :)

Continuumx
05-18-2007, 01:58 AM
I also wanted to add that Vue can export a lot of what it does as polygon geometry. This is probably the best because then you can use it with Vray's superior renderer. :)

Not always so, my last scene had over a billion polygons with vegetation and instances. I brought this into C4D using xstream. C4D crashed everytime the Vue scene would load. To convert a really rich Vue scene to polygons for input to an external render engine would require a very hefty computer system that had more than 2 Gigs of ram.

My current computer system is not capable of handling this kind of a scene converted to pure polygons where there are no instances. So for the moment these kind of scenes stay in the vue software environment.

Ernest Burden
05-18-2007, 02:12 AM
my last scene had over a billion polygons with vegetation and instances. I brought this into C4D...crashed everytime the Vue scene would load.

I wonder if Vue uses a distance-based reduction procedure when it renders. There isn't much value in having 100,000 polygons showing for a tree that's so far away it's 10 pixels. As an artist, we instinctively know that at some point thousands of leaves merge to become a tree, and thousands of trees merge to become woods. Our software should be able to do this, as well. Using distance from viewer is pretty obvious as a method to achieve the results we expect.

artzfx
05-18-2007, 02:26 AM
Thanks for the replies.

Ernest, Vue does have a option to set trees/plants from geometry to billboards depending on the distance from the camera the object is. This distance is set by the user.

ngrava
05-18-2007, 02:34 AM
Yeah, I just meant that if you export Polygons, you can render them using Vray's Materials and GI. But, it is try that using Vue can yield very high poly counts. There are some memory saving tricks that you can use but by and large Vray can handle lots of polys better them most other renderes.

I find it interesting that Vue keeps popping up in this thread. What are you guys mostly using it for?

ThePriest
05-18-2007, 06:44 AM
Have you ever scrutinized Vue's instances close up? While they're plentiful and the system that alternates them for variance is undoubtedly powerful, unless you're using Vue's camera, the option to render more detail close up is unavailable, and for me, working with Vue's camera is a waste of my time.

Secondly, I've seen VRayProxy in action and although it only writes instances to disc for an external render, it's massively powerful compared to some other solutions and of course built in.

http://upload4.postimage.org/42026/kopiez009.jpg

I think it would take somebody to write an Instance modifier plugin specifically for Tree/Plant multiplication, or maybe I'm overlooking the power of XFrog or DPIT.

NicoAdri
05-18-2007, 08:22 AM
OMG!!! I actually dreamt it had been released last night!!!

Put us out of our misery Stefan!!!

leed
05-18-2007, 09:29 AM
OMG!!! I actually dreamt it had been released last night!!!

Put us out of our misery Stefan!!!


LOL....

Tell us ........ what it was like, did you get to use it in your dream.....?
If you didn't......that would be really....really frustrating....

Lee

FredSpeaks
05-19-2007, 04:11 PM
Anyone who has used vray, how does it handle transparent object? Is it quick? I am currently working on a retail interior that has a lot of glass fixtures with glass shelves and to top it off is populated with eye glasses. I am trying to get render times reasonable and have dissabled refraction and tried to optomized AA as best as I can. Just wondering if this is something that VRay would be specialized for?

lllab
05-19-2007, 05:00 PM
glas doesnt slow down vray very much (as it is with ar), specially when using gi....

cheers
stefan

Rich-Art
05-19-2007, 05:15 PM
glas doesnt slow down vray very much (as it is with ar), specially when using gi....

cheers
stefan

That sounds promising....:)

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

FredSpeaks
05-19-2007, 05:29 PM
glas doesnt slow down vray very much (as it is with ar), specially when using gi....

cheers
stefan

Great! Because this rendering is beyound painfully slow. I have baked as much lighting as I can and it is still crawling. I can't wait for Vray now. Very excited.

diegoto
05-19-2007, 05:52 PM
I also wanted to add that Vue can export a lot of what it does as polygon geometry. This is probably the best because then you can use it with Vray's superior renderer. :)

I have tried to export Vue geometry into C4D with different settings, but the mesh does not look as good as in Vue.

ngrava
05-20-2007, 04:49 AM
Architectural glass: Glass renders a lot faster in Vray (in my opinion). One Really nice thing about the Vray Material is that it take a layered approach. Luminosity, specular 1,2 and 3 reflection, diffuse and refraction (transparency) all have their own layer. You can turn on and off each one and they all have a transparency setting so you can mix them how you like. So, what this allows you to do is simply turn on Reflections (with Fresnel) and that's it. It Renders like nothing at all. If you have windows where refraction isn't as noticeable, this technique works great. :D

Bad looking export from Vue: Yes, but this is an issue with Vue and not really C4D's fault. ;) I'm sure there will be a solution eventually. It may take some time though. My advice is to render what you need with Vue/C4D, and then composite that with the part that you want to use for with Vray. The nice thing about that is that you can compose the scene as if it was all going to be rendered as one and then just put a composite tag on the Vray stuff and set for Matt object, render with Vue, then remove the Composite tag and render again with Vray. Vray will just ignore what it can't understand and render what it does. Then, take the two passes into PhotoShop or AE or Whatever you like, and comp them back together. :) By the way, this is essentially what would happen if there was some way to render Vue and Vray together at the same time. The software would just be doing the compositing for you.

diegoto
05-20-2007, 03:54 PM
Bad looking export from Vue: Yes, but this is an issue with Vue and not really C4D's fault. ;) I'm sure there will be a solution eventually. It may take some time though.

I hope that becomes a reality some day. It would be a powerful solution for architectural visualizations! Can you imagine Vray light for architecture combined Vue vegetation variations and ecosystems?:)

My advice is to render what you need with Vue/C4D, and then composite that with the part that you want to use for with Vray.

Thanks for the advice Galen

Diego

choppir
05-21-2007, 04:34 PM
Just a queastion regarding VRay's fur option: Can you make quite long grass or hair with it or do you recon i also buy Fastfur from Renato (http://www.tarabella.it/C4D/FastFur2.0/FastFur2.html (http://www.tarabella.it/C4D/FastFur2.0/FastFur2.html))

I don't want to buy it & VRay has got it already.

Does fastfur render quick anyone?

thanks guys

choppir

ngrava
05-21-2007, 10:10 PM
Actually, the VrayFur is a Max only thing. At least for now. If you want grass, a lot of people on at the Chaos Group forums have had very good results with using noise and displacement. Vray Displacement is very fast compared to other renderers. And, you have a lot more options for noise with C4D. You could also make really great looking hedges too. :)Have a look in the image posts on the chaos group forums most of the grass there is made with simple noise and displacement mapping. But, if you want hair too, then by all means get that too. ;)

choppir
05-22-2007, 06:40 AM
cheers mate,

just one thing - can Cinema do displacement that it looks like grass?

castroman
05-22-2007, 06:47 AM
Yes you sure can, there are a number of ways to do this. Do a search on the forum

lllab
05-22-2007, 10:42 AM
i just used vray and fastfur for an archcompetition last days- works very nice.
with fastfür i made fields of huge grass(1-2m high)

cheers
stefan

pzdm
05-22-2007, 10:51 AM
i just used vray and fastfur for an archcompetition last days- works very nice.
with fastfür i made fields of huge grass(1-2m high)

cheers
stefan

Hi Stefan
wow, your words look promising, could you show us a render example?

I hope (like other) in Hair intergration, but VRay itself will be great bonus for our market, I think.

Pavel

castroman
05-22-2007, 10:51 AM
can you show us?

Rich-Art
05-22-2007, 12:17 PM
Yes I agree with Pavel.....
Thumbs up guys...

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

lllab
05-22-2007, 01:29 PM
this is an archcompetition, so i cant show sadly. it is under nda.
as said hair is not supported, maybe sometime later. but renatos fastfur workes good.
cheers
stefan

pzdm
05-22-2007, 01:35 PM
this is an archcompetition, so i cant show sadly. it is under nda.
as said hair is not supported, maybe sometime later. but renatos fastfur workes good.
cheers
stefan

NDA: of course, we understand you :-)
Hair: we know :-), but if has Renato a way for his FastFur, we can hope for a Hairsupport in future.

A mental torture continues :-)

Cheers Pavel

castroman
05-22-2007, 01:47 PM
@lllab

ok, no problem, but you gotta forgive us hungry souls. the suspense is killing me. I cancelled my 3d studio viz 2008 upgrade order until vray for cinema 4d is out. my goal is to delete the crash happy 3d studio completely from our systems.

KsiKsu
05-22-2007, 04:07 PM
i heard something about 1 to 2 months until release

kossoolli
05-22-2007, 05:04 PM
Too long! I want it to be released tomorrow!

tomglod
05-22-2007, 07:06 PM
i heard something about 1 to 2 months until release

Who did you hear that from?????? no one who is working on this has said anything to that effect, although no one said that it won;t be 1 or 2 months...... but i wouldn't accept an answer from anyone other then those who are involved.

Who is your source?

SrNutritivo
05-22-2007, 07:14 PM
Hi. (sorry for my english )

This last weeks, I'm seriously trying Cinema 4D for broadcast work, I and my team are currently working with Maya, but is a little bit frustrating for fast and crazy motion graphics projects, and cinema 4d integrates well with AE, etc etc.
At this time, the only one drawback of cinema 4d is the absence of a shader tree like way to create complex shaders... With VRay for C4D, you are planning to implement this feature? With the Xpresso editor as a basis??? With this thing, VRay for C4D become the very best and powerfull implementation of VRay!!!

Cheers

lllab
05-22-2007, 08:28 PM
well i cant say too much about vray future as we are under nda to chaosgroup.

i can just say our version is already made to be compatible to future vray developments. chaosgroup are extremly cool developers:-)

cheers
stefan

Billabong
05-23-2007, 06:52 PM
I'm really looking forward to this release, but I do have a question.

Why are product release dates such as vray,etc.. are under such hush,hush. I just never really understood the reason behind that. I mean I huess I could see one reason being maybe if it gets held back when it is due for relaease, but even then I really dont see that as a valid reason.
Im not trying to start a flame or anything, I'vve just always been curious about that. Thanks again and I can't wait till it's finally out

Brandon

LucentDreams
05-23-2007, 07:29 PM
its not a matter of keeping a secret hush hush date, its a matter of they honestly don't know, it will be released when its ready, the reason to avoid release dates is when it comes to software development its the worst thing you can do, you can't predict bugs and instability, it swhy windows has service packs, heck even cinema having X.1 releases. The better prepared your releaseis the more reliable the software will be.

Billabong
05-23-2007, 07:33 PM
Thanks Lucent, very valid point

Rich-Art
05-23-2007, 07:59 PM
better a few months later and a stable release than a few months earlier and a lot of bugs and hair pulling shut downs... ;)

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

Polofon
05-24-2007, 04:06 PM
agree....look at maxwell :banghead:

NicoAdri
05-24-2007, 07:51 PM
Stefan,

Either release it soon or I'm taking up potato growing as a profession! I've just downloaded Maxwell 1.5 and....well, you know the score there!!!

Please, please, please!!!

Adri

lllab
05-25-2007, 08:36 AM
Hi all,
i understand you are all waiting eagerly for the release, but please understand, that it needs the time it needs. i dont want to push Renato and Daniele, the thing shall be as good as possible, with as few bugs as possible.

you can be sure it is also in our interest to release it!
...but as said we try to give you a clean ande nice release.

all the best
Stefan
vrayforc4d

Jershaun
05-25-2007, 08:59 AM
Thanks Mr. Laub. I'll be waiting patiently yet eagerly. Just make sure everythings tested properly and works, especially elementry stuff, unlike you know who. http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

Jershaun

scanmead
05-25-2007, 05:06 PM
:banghead: Now I know how my dog feels when he can't have that pizza inches from his nose. (Just teasing you all.)

Rich-Art
05-25-2007, 08:37 PM
LoL, to bad we don't know how close the VRay pizza is............

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

LemonNado
05-25-2007, 08:56 PM
Maybe, just to calm the nerves, it is possible to release a percent number regarding the finishing status without attaching it to an actual time dimension? Like: We are 95% done but do not know how long the last 5 percent will take. Or... we are 5% done and do not know how long the other 95% will take...
Rainer


PS:http://www.cousins-pizza.com/ Hmmmmm!

lllab
05-25-2007, 09:31 PM
well we definitly have 95% done, but i do not predict here how long the last 5 % needs to be finished....

to not disappoint any of you i better do no estimations as they might be wrong. software development is quite nonliniar, sorry:-)

cheers
stefan

Stain777
05-25-2007, 09:35 PM
well we definitly have 95% done, but i do not predict here how long the last 5 % needs to be finished....

to not disappoint any of you i better do no estimations as they might be wrong. software development is quite nonliniar, sorry:-)

cheers
stefan

When I was in the software biz we'd say, "You do the first 90%, then you do that last 90%" Keep up the good work, I'm so looking forward to it. Thank you for taking this on.

choppir
05-29-2007, 09:32 AM
I'm looking for tutorials for VRay, but what i'm thinking is that it's all done on max.

Will it be difficult for us to learn VRay from these tutorials? I think it's gonna take months to figure this out?

I would hope some clever geezer would make a training DVD on this as soon as VRay is out. I think that will be way better than trying and frustrate myself working out what each feature does.

till la'er

choppir

Martin Kay
05-29-2007, 09:51 AM
I'm looking for tutorials for VRay, but what i'm thinking is that it's all done on max.

Will it be difficult for us to learn VRay from these tutorials? I think it's gonna take months to figure this out?

I would hope some clever geezer would make a training DVD on this as soon as VRay is out. I think that will be way better than trying and frustrate myself working out what each feature does.

till la'er

choppir

I would hope that a number of example scenes will be provided so users can assess what sort of performance they can expect from their machines and also for them to be able to see what settings have been used etc etc.

Martin K

ngrava
05-29-2007, 10:00 AM
I would hope that a number of example scenes will be provided so users can assess what sort of performance they can expect from their machines and also for them to be able to see what settings have been used etc etc.

Martin K

Yes, this will be the case. Also, Vray for C4D has a pretty extensive preset system in place. Stefan will be providing lot's of example scenes and materials as well as GI presets.

Also, there will be 3rd part training vids too.

Shilts
05-29-2007, 10:13 AM
choppir, I have consistantly heard that these DVDs from Gnomon are some of the best VRay not to mention general GI tutorials out there:

http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/cni01.html
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/cni02.html

Maybe stefan would need to clarify this, but, I would assume the 99% of the training material here would be absolutely relevant to C4D VRay, with a large majority of the options and settings being just as applicable.

Ernest Burden
05-29-2007, 12:16 PM
When I was in the software biz we'd say, "You do the first 90%, then you do that last 90%"

That's a great phrase, thanks for posting it!

I look at it like going half the distance to the goal-line. The first half is huge, the next half pretty good, but pretty soon your efforts at perfection take you closer and closer but by smaller and smaller amounts. This way you never actually finnish, so at some point you have to say 'close enough for now' and release the thing.

lllab
05-29-2007, 12:22 PM
Hi All,

i am working on the manual, it will be pdf not a dvd. i dont like those tutorial dvds too much to be honest, bought some and did not look into them fully. the manual pdf you can read on pc or print, just as you prefer. it will be free for download also for non customers.

it will have several topics, beside the functions and interface it covers GI, use of colormapping, AA, Multi BRDF Material, the use of C4d shaders withing the BRDF, Netrender, rendercrop, architectural 2 point perspectives, etc...

i also work on material settings. each brdf also has a settings panel where you can have a fast start for metal, glas, wood, conrete, plastic, velvet etc. also there will be a material libary. the same with the GI settings. You have a dropdownlist with usefull gi settings so all can start immideatly without really need to know too much about GI.

in addition you will get premade setups for studiosetup, outdoor sky setup, hdri setup, material stacking-multi brdf setups, displacement and motionblur setups.

so basicly for all settings & functions i provide you with starting examples and presets.
i think it will be the most easiest vray version available.

best regards,
Stefan Laub
vrayforc4d.com

p.s. there is also a moderated forum after start on the webstite of vrayforc4d.com ( a new site is in works too). on this forum, the developers Renato and Daniele, myself and maybe even vlado will answer questions regarding vray and you can share and exchange with fellow users.

p.s.s: and yes you can look at all max vray tutorials, the functions you can learn also from there. most settings are identical. all GI, AA, colormap etc things work the same.

Shilts
05-29-2007, 12:58 PM
Hmmm, the tension builds. VRay does seem to be getting close now - I can almost smell it :) and it smells promising :love:

Thanks for the updated info Stefan.

Two strong points - Cinema 4D workflow and VRay rendering technology. Mixed with a third ingredient of a programming team straight out of the C4D community integrating the two. Add a dash of Arch Viz and even more C4D community involvement. What do ya get??? I dunno yet, but like I said - it smells very promising!

castroman
05-29-2007, 01:31 PM
yes I can almost feel it. sat this weekend and tried out the max version, tons of settings inside the vray panel. a little daunting at first, but by following the tutorials the result where quite good. I hope the documentation is good or at least some good examples.

Ernest Burden
05-29-2007, 02:04 PM
it smells very promising!

Like walking past a bakery...

nycL45
05-29-2007, 02:05 PM
Stefan and the team have learned a lot from another sw, which will not be named here, regarding the value of providing development status updates, responding to questions, printable manual, etc. IMHO, you guys have done a great job with this vital part of the development process – 1) it builds confidence in VRayforC4D, 2) your efforts have been good for VRay and C4D and 3) the wait has been much more pleasant. Thanks.

AdamT
05-29-2007, 03:20 PM
That's a great phrase, thanks for posting it!

I look at it like going half the distance to the goal-line. The first half is huge, the next half pretty good, but pretty soon your efforts at perfection take you closer and closer but by smaller and smaller amounts. This way you never actually finnish, so at some point you have to say 'close enough for now' and release the thing.
You're describing Xeno's paradox. :)

lllab
05-30-2007, 08:00 AM
"This way you never actually finnish, so at some point you have to say 'close enough for now' and release the thing."

yes you are right Earnest, be sure i will say stop! at the right time;-)
cheers
Stefan

abrown
05-30-2007, 11:14 PM
Hi lllab and C4D4Vray team, awesome work you guys are doing.

I've been watching your development for a long time now and I can't begin to tell you how excited I am about this product (not to mention that fact that it's going to fullfill a very long standing dream to be able to finally dump 3dmax forever... yeah!!). I'm really hoping it's going to released Vray's full potential,.. in fact, I guessing it's going to have major impact of the world of CG. Anyhow, good luck and I can't wait.

Quick question... any status on whether proxy objects are going to make in for V1.0?

sketchbook
05-30-2007, 11:28 PM
i am confused by the postings as to where when this comes out, will it be available in OSX? at some point it's been said that it's been ported to OSX already, and at other times it sounds like we need to wait for chaosgroup to release vray for osx or something like that.

thanks

Ernest Burden
05-30-2007, 11:30 PM
A friend of mine works with a company that sells stuff to architectural people, software, render products, content, training. I asked him where the growth was for their business, what was driving sales. His answer was simply "Vray".

Shilts
05-31-2007, 06:01 AM
What will be interesting to see from my perspective will be how the introduction of VRay to C4D could change VRays market slightly as well. There is no doubt that VRay is king of the render engines for Architectural Visualisation, however, although it seems to be more and more common, VRay is does not enjoy anywhere near that status in the motion graphics or character animation markets.

I am not going to suggest that Cinema 4D will change the world, but I think it will definately have an impact upon other markets, because C4D covers such diverse areas of the 3D industry and there will not be competition from an inbuilt Mental Ray as there is with 3DS Max.

From this very thread we are seeing a lot of interest from people who are covering completely different industries to Arch Vis.

govinda
05-31-2007, 06:43 AM
I just wanted to be post #1121 in this thread. Oh, should I say something meaningful? Okay then: No, Adam, Xena the Warrior Princess didn't have a brother named Xeno who was a stoic philosopher, no matter that Dilbert named him with an X in the Doughnut Paradox (nobody ever eats the whole of the last office doughnut--it's always half of the half that's remaining, and thus it was named Xeno's Doughnut). It was that other guy, Zeno, Zeno of Elea I believe, and if he's right it explains why I can never fully render all 2350 frames of this animation I'm working on.

ngrava
05-31-2007, 06:45 AM
What will be interesting to see from my perspective will be how the introduction of VRay to C4D could change VRays market slightly as well. There is no doubt that VRay is king of the render engines for Architectural Visualisation, however, although it seems to be more and more common, VRay is does not enjoy anywhere near that status in the motion graphics or character animation markets.

I am not going to suggest that Cinema 4D will change the world, but I think it will definately have an impact upon other markets, because C4D covers such diverse areas of the 3D industry and there will not be competition from an inbuilt Mental Ray as there is with 3DS Max.

From this very thread we are seeing a lot of interest from people who are covering completely different industries to Arch Vis.

This is very interesting. My spidey sense is telling me that it's not going to effect Vray very much (other then just more sales). I think that for C4D it will continue to be Arch/Vis oriented and will give it a healthy boost in that direction. In my travels over the net in the C4D community it's looks to be pretty well dominated by Arch/Vis so I don't think there is going to be some sudden interest in C4D as a character animation tool. That needs to come from examples. The more people who take the jump and make short films in C4D, the more interest there will be in C4D for character animation. ;) Vray will obviously have an impact on that because the quality will be there but to tell you the truth, there needs to be some major changes in the underlaying C4D architecture for it to be taken seriously in the film industry. Also, I know it's really just fluff for those hardcore character animation guys but actually believe that a simple auto rigging system (like C.A.T. or character Studio) will have the greatest impact on generating animation customers. Right now, Cinema has some really great tools for advanced character rigging and animation. You can pretty much do anything you can do in Maya... If you know what you are doing. If however, you just want to start animating characters and don't have any idea (or interest) how to rig, those tools will most likely sit unused. So, we'll see what happens. Here's to the future. :D

Erik Heyninck
05-31-2007, 06:47 AM
The same goes for Cinema: it also doesn't get the status it deserves, mainly due to the "never change a winning team" (read: conservatism) of most companies. So these two together will make a stronger impact. It might well be a move as influential as the idea to combine core with bodypaint and vice-versa.

Shilts
05-31-2007, 07:31 AM
This is very interesting. My spidey sense is telling me that it's not going to effect Vray very much (other then just more sales). I think that for C4D it will continue to be Arch/Vis oriented and will give it a healthy boost in that direction. In my travels over the net in the C4D community it's looks to be pretty well dominated by Arch/Vis so I don't think there is going to be some sudden interest in C4D as a character animation tool. That needs to come from examples. The more people who take the jump and make short films in C4D, the more interest there will be in C4D for character animation. ;) Vray will obviously have an impact on that because the quality will be there but to tell you the truth, there needs to be some major changes in the underlaying C4D architecture for it to be taken seriously in the film industry. Also, I know it's really just fluff for those hardcore character animation guys but actually believe that a simple auto rigging system (like C.A.T. or character Studio) will have the greatest impact on generating animation customers. Right now, Cinema has some really great tools for advanced character rigging and animation. You can pretty much do anything you can do in Maya... If you know what you are doing. If however, you just want to start animating characters and don't have any idea (or interest) how to rig, those tools will most likely sit unused. So, we'll see what happens. Here's to the future. :D

For the most part I agree with you. However, I don't think that the C4D community is dominated by Arch Vis at the moment. I think it is dominated by Motion Graphics - though whether the Mograph community needs VRay rather over AR remains to be seen.

Martin Kay
05-31-2007, 07:36 AM
This is very interesting. My spidey sense is telling me that it's not going to effect Vray very much (other then just more sales). I think that for C4D it will continue to be Arch/Vis oriented and will give it a healthy boost in that direction. In my travels over the net in the C4D community it's looks to be pretty well dominated by Arch/Vis so I don't think there is going to be some sudden interest in C4D as a character animation tool. That needs to come from examples. The more people who take the jump and make short films in C4D, the more interest there will be in C4D for character animation. ;) Vray will obviously have an impact on that because the quality will be there but to tell you the truth, there needs to be some major changes in the underlaying C4D architecture for it to be taken seriously in the film industry. Also, I know it's really just fluff for those hardcore character animation guys but actually believe that a simple auto rigging system (like C.A.T. or character Studio) will have the greatest impact on generating animation customers. Right now, Cinema has some really great tools for advanced character rigging and animation. You can pretty much do anything you can do in Maya... If you know what you are doing. If however, you just want to start animating characters and don't have any idea (or interest) how to rig, those tools will most likely sit unused. So, we'll see what happens. Here's to the future. :D

Cinema also needs to look at its dismal mesh import tools and all the shading problems associated with. I'm talking about imports from Rhino or ViaCad or other nurns modeller. Cinema may be having Vray as a great rendering solution but it also needs the quality mesh to go with it and you realistically can't solely rely on SDS as a total solution.
It's why I hover between EI and c4d.

Martin K

Martin Kay
05-31-2007, 07:48 AM
The same goes for Cinema: it also doesn't get the status it deserves, mainly due to the "never change a winning team" (read: conservatism) of most companies. So these two together will make a stronger impact. It might well be a move as influential as the idea to combine core with bodypaint and vice-versa.

I think c4d is a great app, convenient and stable, but it only goes so far. As I mention elsewhere c4d needs better mesh import. Basically the various planes and blends you get from a typical nurbs model do not join up properly and smooth correctly. The phong and un phong tool don't work without optimising the mesh which in itself makes a dog's dinner of everything. What this means is that you have to put up with phong edge breaks where you don't want them. If Electric Image can solve this problem why cant Maxon? The reason Maxon don't bother with this is because most users are either hobbyists or maybe arch vis people or occasional users doing mostly Photoshop and Quark.

Martin K

lllab
05-31-2007, 07:53 AM
martin,
c4d can import rhino files very well! you just have to use custom tesselation in rhino. i use both every day. no shading problems. the important thing is to use dxf not obj! then it also keeps layers as groups and im ports object and layer colors.

by the way vray is not only used by archviz. as earnest pointed out it is the fastest growing renderengine. richard rosenman by example comes to my mind, he has done several famous commercials with it.

it is just that archviz is a very demanding area regarding GI, speed and lightquality, and thats where vray shines. but apparently those things are not bad for the others too;-)

cheers
stefan

edit: but yes martin you are right, the phong smoothing isnt great in c4d yet.

Martin Kay
05-31-2007, 08:41 AM
martin,
c4d can import rhino files very well! you just have to use custom tesselation in rhino. i use both every day. no shading problems. the important thing is to use dxf not obj! then it also keeps layers as groups and im ports object and layer colors.

by the way vray is not only used by archviz. as earnest pointed out it is the fastest growing renderengine. richard rosenman by example comes to my mind, he has done several famous commercials with it.

it is just that archviz is a very demanding area regarding GI, speed and lightquality, and thats where vray shines. but apparently those things are not bad for the others too;-)

cheers
stefan

edit: but yes martin you are right, the phong smoothing isnt great in c4d yet.

Thanks for the prompt reply stefan! I do use the tesselation tools but import obj. I'll try dx, but whether it will solve the phong edge problem remains to be seen. I'll give it a go.

Martin K

kossoolli
05-31-2007, 09:18 AM
I know various cg companies which work for the automotive industry using Vray. The results are absolutely staggering:

http://www.mackevision.de/content.php?d=23&p=c12cr

Martin Kay
05-31-2007, 09:53 AM
I know various cg companies which work for the automotive industry using Vray. The results are absolutely staggering:

http://www.mackevision.de/content.php?d=23&p=c12cr

Hmmm.... not via c4d they don't. The bog standard version of c4d doesn't smooth nurbs imported mesh properly. A definite no no. Whether or not the c4d 'Engineering package' solves this problem I don't know...

Martin K

Martin Kay
05-31-2007, 09:56 AM
martin,
c4d can import rhino files very well! you just have to use custom tesselation in rhino. i use both every day. no shading problems. the important thing is to use dxf not obj! then it also keeps layers as groups and im ports object and layer colors.

by the way vray is not only used by archviz. as earnest pointed out it is the fastest growing renderengine. richard rosenman by example comes to my mind, he has done several famous commercials with it.

it is just that archviz is a very demanding area regarding GI, speed and lightquality, and thats where vray shines. but apparently those things are not bad for the others too;-)

cheers
stefan

edit: but yes martin you are right, the phong smoothing isnt great in c4d yet.

HI stefan, I tried dxf import from Rhino and it comes in ok as far as it goes. Mesh still needs optimising. I used a setting for points only, set at 0.0 and it sorted most of the blends out. Still a few artifacts though around blend borders here and there. What dxf setting do you use out of Rhino- there are quite a few options. I used default. Cheers.

Martin K

kossoolli
05-31-2007, 09:58 AM
I never said they use C4D. They are using Max together with Vray.

jph
05-31-2007, 10:01 AM
martin,
c4d can import rhino files very well! you just have to use custom tesselation in rhino. i use both every day. no shading problems. the important thing is to use dxf not obj! then it also keeps layers as groups and im ports object and layer colors.

by the way vray is not only used by archviz. as earnest pointed out it is the fastest growing renderengine. richard rosenman by example comes to my mind, he has done several famous commercials with it.

it is just that archviz is a very demanding area regarding GI, speed and lightquality, and thats where vray shines. but apparently those things are not bad for the others too;-)

cheers
stefan

edit: but yes martin you are right, the phong smoothing isnt great in c4d yet.


I personally prefer not to use the custom settigs, but adjust them to the resolution needed..., also I prefer to use obj over dxf, since obj exports a normal tag which stores aditional information about the original nurbs surface..., that smooth the rendered surface...

ciao Jan

ngrava
05-31-2007, 04:17 PM
NURBS tessellation: This i mostly a problem with Nurbs modelers not C4D. It's a sign of a good nurbs modeler if it can export it's surfaces all joined up properly. This is a fundamental issue with Nurbs modelers when going to polygons. Nurbs guys blame polygons, polyon guys blame nurbs. It's been a round a bout argument for ages. ;) What it boils down to is that you have to be very careful when using blended/trimed/filited surfaces and make sure you join them up properly before you export. Even then, you can't be sure that there isn't going to be some little issue here and there. check out this article about nurbs rendering: http://www.hydraulicdesign.net/meshes.htm. The funny thing is that even though he is talking about rendering, you can pretty much apply the exact same issues to exporting because the same thing is happening.

PaulS2
05-31-2007, 05:09 PM
In some cases I tend to agree but not in every case.

Just personal experience - with exports from EIM to EI results in trouble-free meshes, imports of Rhino files into Max via nPower pluggins, or even directly as .obj polys poses no issues. Obj from Rhino into EI works great too....as does obj into Modo from Rhino or EIM.

I haven't experienced shading issues in any of these cases and never had to be too picky about making sure surfaces and trims were perfect....a little common sense is required though.

lllab
05-31-2007, 05:21 PM
ngrava thats not really true in case of rhino. rhino meshes open fine in most other apps. the identical mesh makes problems in c4d. phong tags i often have problems in c4d, also from non nurbs geometry. it is definitly a thing where i hope maxon will have a look at in future.

martin i use default most times, and custom tesselation. for archvisz most elements do fine. sometimes i have to trash the phong tag and add a new one. it can be managed, but you are right it takes sometimes a bit of handwork.

cheers
stefan

abrown
05-31-2007, 05:44 PM
Hi Stefan, just in case you missed my earlier question post... any status on whether proxy objects are going to make in for V1.0?

Also, I'm hoping and assuming that proxies will work with MoGraph. Do you happen to know if they will?

Thanks in advance,
Adrian Brown

lllab
05-31-2007, 06:14 PM
we have optimized alot for many objects, specially regarding instancing and mograph:-)

the proxy support for 1.0 depends on maxon support on which we wait at the moment. if not in 1.0 in 1.1 soon after. dont worry.

ies lights will be in in 1.0 quite certain by the way for those who are interested:-)

cheers
stefan

abrown
05-31-2007, 06:24 PM
Thanks a lot for the info Stefen, both bits are good to hear (ies light support is a nice surprise).

I can only imagine the power of Vray proxies w/ mograph :twisted:

lllab
05-31-2007, 06:36 PM
it will come for sure in forseable future;-)
cheers
stefan

Ernest Burden
05-31-2007, 07:40 PM
ies lights will be in in 1.0 quite certain by the way for those who are interested:-)

That would be me. But will it be able to cast shadows through a transparent material from IES lights? You wouldn't think you'd have to ask that, but that was/is a problem with FR2's IES lights.

lllab
05-31-2007, 08:14 PM
i will test tomorrow and tell you...
cheers
stefan

ngrava
05-31-2007, 08:41 PM
ngrava thats not really true in case of rhino. rhino meshes open fine in most other apps. the identical mesh makes problems in c4d. phong tags i often have problems in c4d, also from non nurbs geometry. it is definitly a thing where i hope maxon will have a look at in future.

<snip>

cheers
stefan

Thanks for clearing that up Stefan. I don't use Rhino so I'm not familiar with issues of that particular program. I usually use Maya for nurbs or more recently MOI. My experience is mostly based on getting models from clients who have no idea how to export properly. ;) I usually have to spend some time on the phone with them sorting it all out.

Still, if there are issues with shading, that's sounds like something different.

lllab
05-31-2007, 08:47 PM
" Still, if there are issues with shading, that's sounds like something different"

like what? apperently it is a problem c4d has, as other apps import the same meshes, as said also from non nurbs files correct in shading. since the long years i use c4d, smooth shading wasent c4d strength.

but this is not a phong shading thread...
cheers
stfean

Erik Heyninck
05-31-2007, 09:05 PM
No need to be farsighted though.
O well...

lllab
05-31-2007, 09:08 PM
farsighted?
lg
stefan

Martin Kay
05-31-2007, 09:15 PM
" Still, if there are issues with shading, that's sounds like something different"

like what? apperently it is a problem c4d has, as other apps import the same meshes, as said also from non nurbs files correct in shading. since the long years i use c4d, smooth shading wasent c4d strength.

but this is not a phong shading thread...
cheers
stfean

However I assume that what comes out of vRay is effected by what comes out of c4d. In which case its a relevant issue, although not the problem of those who are writing vRay for c4d.

Martin K

lllab
05-31-2007, 09:21 PM
sure, sorry i dint want to moderate by no means, thats done by others. of course ist related as many other things are....mainly i would say it can be manges in c4d. some geometry needs abit of handwork. it can be that the engineering bundle solves that, but i dont have it so i cant say.

just regarding rhino import, i get 99% of the modell in ok, and the rest of 1% i cleanup by hand.

cheers
stefan

sketchbook
05-31-2007, 10:14 PM
just wondering still about OS X.

anybody know for sure?

lllab
05-31-2007, 11:18 PM
i know;-)
renato works on it.
again it is ported by vlado, we have to implement the sdk.
cheers
stefan

KsiKsu
06-01-2007, 11:15 AM
lllab has exceeded their stored private messages quota and can not accept further messages until they clear some space.

Erik Heyninck
06-01-2007, 09:12 PM
Stefan: it will come for sure in forseable future


Me: No need to be farsighted though.

playing with words.

Like Lennon's famous " Got to be good-looking cos he's so hard to see "

NicoAdri
06-02-2007, 03:36 PM
does that mean that there will be a delayed release date for the os x version stefan?

TIA

Adri

Nixgehtmehr
06-02-2007, 04:31 PM
My thoughts about "it will come for sure in forseable future..."

Speculation mode on:

If the VRAy plugin for C4d really is that integrated (and sophisticated) as Stefan announced I could imagine that Maxon is very intersted in that and they are going to play a strong part in that game.

Reason: Maxon is in trouble to develop their "old" Advanced Render and bring it up to date. Look at the competitors. Nearly all have better/more up-to-date render engines in the core packages (That doesnt mean AR is bad, it's just out-dated).

So, do they spend a lot of effort/money to further develop AR??
Of course - No!
Instead they will pack AR into the C4D core-package and offer a new, very powerful AR modul - which in fact is VRAY!

A very good opportunity to annouce such a big deal will be Siggraph in August. And that's simply the reason why we have to wait and wait and wait....:)

Speculation mode off.


Hey, that's great - only two month to go...

laurent
06-02-2007, 05:50 PM
who'd buy AR if you can go for Vray?
They should buy a modeler while they're shopping.

georgedrakakis
06-02-2007, 07:38 PM
who'd buy AR if you can go for Vray?
They should buy a modeler while they're shopping.
i would buy Advance Vrender 3.
it's stable, straightforward and 101% compatible.

RenatoT
06-02-2007, 08:35 PM
who'd buy AR if you can go for Vray?
They should buy a modeler while they're shopping.

Remember that most AR shaders are supported in the Vray render and my goal is to support mush as possible of all c4d features and modules.

... today we completed the IES support.. :)

Cheers
Renato

Neil V
06-02-2007, 09:38 PM
Is there any chance you guys could put a few extra bits on your website> I understand it hasn't been updated for ages because you've been concentrating solely on getting the thing finished but a few extra teases would keep some of us momentarily happy I suppose.

Just my thoughts anyway.

nycL45
06-02-2007, 09:40 PM
Sketchbook, "just wondering still about OS X.
anybody know for sure?"

lllab, "i know;-)
renato works on it.
again it is ported by vlado, we have to implement the sdk.
cheers
stefan"

NicoAdri, "does that mean that there will be a delayed release date for the os x version stefan?
TIA
Adri"

Why am I getting a sinking feeling? Because Stefan's response above COULD MEAN that the Mac OS X version MAY NOT be debuting with the windoz version. Stefan or Renato or Danielle, please tell us it ain't so - that could be a HUGE let down. (Biting left hand fingernails nervously as handfuls of hair are removed by the right hand while awaiting the Team's soft reassuring words.) ;)

Neil V
06-02-2007, 09:48 PM
[QUOTE=Why am I getting a sinking feeling? Because Stefan's response above COULD MEAN that the Mac OS X version MAY NOT be debuting with the windoz version. Stefan or Renato or Danielle, please tell us it ain't so - that could be a HUGE let down. (Biting left hand fingernails nervously as handfuls of hair are removed by the right hand while awaiting the Team's soft reassuring words.) ;)[/QUOTE]

I REALLY hope this isn't the case. I've been holding out for VRay (like a lot of people) for months now. For me a non-OSX version would probanly mean me being found face down in the local reservoir.

RenatoT
06-02-2007, 10:06 PM
Hi All,

Today we made the RC release that will be sent to all betatester tomorrow.
From now my time will be used for the osx relase... but ChaosGroup still is working in the Osx sdk, so really i hope that all will be ok without too much problems.

I hope to give you all good news in the next days.

thanks all for your time
Renato

LemonNado
06-03-2007, 02:19 AM
You guys really rock! Regardless which OS is first, it will be a great achievement!
Rainer

RenatoT
06-03-2007, 07:07 AM
Hi All,

just a preview of the Ies Light panel.

http://www.tarabella.it/C4D/VrayForC4d/IesPanel.jpg

This is a preview.. somethings may change.

Best regards
Renato T.

Neil V
06-03-2007, 07:19 AM
So when can we expect an OSX release?

machmirdenlukas
06-03-2007, 07:36 AM
Hi All,

just a preview of the Ies Light panel.

http://www.tarabella.it/C4D/VrayForC4d/IesPanel.jpg

This is a preview.. somethings may change.

Best regards
Renato T.


congrats! i don`t think this feature is available for max-vray-lights? supercool.thanks!
cheers M

lllab
06-03-2007, 07:52 AM
"So when can we expect an OSX release?"

if it goes as planned iat the same time as the win version.
we just cannot say it 100% as not all depends on us. the sdk has to be refined by vlado, for both versions ,win and osx. both are in works. the c4d code is multiplattform.

cheers
stefan

Erik Heyninck
06-03-2007, 08:30 AM
I guess it is for max (don't have it):

http://www.evermotion.org/?unfold_exclusive=86&unfold=exclusive

this is a tut for interior lighting with IES light, VRay in max

lllab
06-03-2007, 08:54 AM
of course maxvray has ies lights too!
cheers
stefan

Neil V
06-03-2007, 09:24 AM
"So when can we expect an OSX release?"

if it goes as planned iat the same time as the win version.
we just cannot say it 100% as not all depends on us. the sdk has to be refined by vlado, for both versions ,win and osx. both are in works. the c4d code is multiplattform.

cheers
stefan

Phew! That's a relief. I thought us OSX users were about to be treated like second class citizens as happens far too often. I really am excited about this release. I hope it's a roaring success for everyone involved.

machmirdenlukas
06-03-2007, 04:32 PM
of course maxvray has ies lights too!
cheers
stefan

sure, i thougt it isn`t possible to filter color of ies-lights in max. but yes it is. anyway. cool feature.
cheers m

Rich-Art
06-03-2007, 06:33 PM
Hi All,

just a preview of the Ies Light panel.

http://www.tarabella.it/C4D/VrayForC4d/IesPanel.jpg

This is a preview.. somethings may change.

Best regards
Renato T.

Wow that looks real nice and promising Renato. Great job.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

nycL45
06-03-2007, 06:36 PM
Thanks Renato and Stefan for the update. From your responses, a simultaneous release of both OS X and Windows versions still sounds a bit iffy at this time. We know you guys are down stream from the ChaosGroup and doing the best you can. And doing a great job - the Ies Light Panel looks good!

laurent
06-03-2007, 06:51 PM
lllab, Renato, after all this is done and behind you (after vacation of course) coudn't you somehow integrate rhino into cinema? ;)

Ernest Burden
06-03-2007, 07:49 PM
I don't see a way to adjust the power of the light. I know most IES files include the power of the lamp, but we may want to turn it up or down, or if I create my own IES shape I would want to be able to apply a power strength or multiplier.

LucentDreams
06-03-2007, 08:09 PM
probably handled in the common settings seeing as how the tag has spot, area, sun, and ies, and all need a multiplier.

lllab
06-03-2007, 09:08 PM
yes under common:-)

you have a simple mutliplier or W, lm, W/m2, nit, etc....all kinds of photometric radiance inputs.

cheers
stefan

scanmead
06-04-2007, 02:13 AM
That screenshot by Renato is torture! Can't remember that last time I drooled so much on my keyboard....

SystemofaDown
06-04-2007, 02:20 AM
Ahh that screenshot is soo coool. I dono if this was answered yet but are you guys going to provide tutorials or a manual with the package? And will you release it before august, this will make a good bday present lol. Cant Wait!

DanieleF
06-04-2007, 03:39 AM
Just to clarify somethings about IES Lights...
The IES light use all the informations coming from the IES file, also for the power of the lamp.
You can limit the intensity applying a filter color to the light (directly from the IES tab in the VrayLightTag). Remember that this is not the final version of the IES tab, infact it's already changed to integrate some usefull presets for the color of the light (for Fluorescent, Halogen, Metal, Sodium, Mercury, etc. types of lamps) and some informations from the IES file.
All other types of lights (Omni, Spot, Area etc.), like Stefan say, now have the parameters to set the photometric unit and intensity (Watts, Lumens, etc)...great for interiors renders.
Cheers and stay tuned in the coming weeks!!!

Daniele

unseenthings
06-04-2007, 05:27 AM
My thoughts about "it will come for sure in forseable future..."

Speculation mode on:

If the VRAy plugin for C4d really is that integrated (and sophisticated) as Stefan announced I could imagine that Maxon is very intersted in that and they are going to play a strong part in that game.

Reason: Maxon is in trouble to develop their "old" Advanced Render and bring it up to date. Look at the competitors. Nearly all have better/more up-to-date render engines in the core packages (That doesnt mean AR is bad, it's just out-dated).

So, do they spend a lot of effort/money to further develop AR??
Of course - No!
Instead they will pack AR into the C4D core-package and offer a new, very powerful AR modul - which in fact is VRAY!

A very good opportunity to annouce such a big deal will be Siggraph in August. And that's simply the reason why we have to wait and wait and wait....:)

Speculation mode off.


Hey, that's great - only two month to go...
Only problem with that theory... is I don't think Vray is out for OS X, is it?? (I may well be mistaken)

nycL45
06-04-2007, 11:37 AM
Cheers and stay tuned in the coming weeks!!!Daniele

Now that should accelerate a few hearts and bring on the sweats. ;)

It all sounds very promising.

Rich-Art
06-04-2007, 12:19 PM
Wow this topic is 89,299 viewed and has 1182 post in it already....:eek:

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

Srek
06-04-2007, 12:53 PM
Wow this topic is 89,299 viewed and has 1182 post in it already....:eek:
Yes, i think meanwhile the maintainance of this thread has a serious impact on the bridge plugin development ;)

Cheers
Björn

LemonNado
06-04-2007, 03:18 PM
I agree Srek haha. But 'No noise, no sales'. So the advertising created by this thread, will offset the maintenance. At least I hope so 8))))))).
Rainer

ooo
06-04-2007, 03:35 PM
Only problem with that theory... is I don't think Vray is out for OS X, is it?? (I may well be mistaken)

Yes it is (quoting Stefan):

"So when can we expect an OSX release?"

if it goes as planned iat the same time as the win version.
we just cannot say it 100% as not all depends on us. the sdk has to be refined by vlado, for both versions ,win and osx. both are in works. the c4d code is multiplattform.

cheers
stefan

sketchbook
06-04-2007, 05:12 PM
my 2 cents:

i say when the pc version is done, release it. mac or not. i want the mac version, but i have my pc sitting here as well, and i would not want to wait, nor want any other pc users to wait for a simultaneous release.

thanks all!

NicoAdri
06-04-2007, 08:03 PM
In theory I agree, but if we already start off behind the PC it gives the impression that the platform that counts is the PC.

A couple of weeks difference is nothing but if it were a couple of months and lacking all of the the functionality of the PC version there'd be plenty of cheesed off MAC users who've been waiting for this.

I think the developers might be surprised how many MAC C4D users are out there waiting for this. They probably have a pretty good idea though!...:-)

MY 2C

Adri

leed
06-04-2007, 08:12 PM
Lets not get drawn into the' if and buts'

It has always been said that the Mac version will be ready the same time as the PC, so let us believe the developers, who have surpassed all expectation with this integration.
And hope that tdevelopments out of their hands does not impact on the Mac or Pc release date, what ever that is....

Lee

unseenthings
06-04-2007, 10:40 PM
I know that the plugin/bridge developers are developing code for Windows and OS X simultaneously and I don't doubt that at all -- my query is to whether Vray OS X Standalone is available or not. Aside from a cryptic note from Stefan, I can't find anything about that anywhere else.

RenatoT
06-04-2007, 11:59 PM
Hi all,

the plugin is developed on the windows side only and like all others plugins that i ported to osx, the vraybridge will be compiled on osx when will be ready to release. For all others my plugins the port to the apple pcs the time needed is about 1 hours but here is a bit complicated and the vray osx, that we own, is near to be ready.

We are not delay the release for the Osx because some fix and test are need for vray and the vraybridge.

We apologize about the time needed but our target it to give to all customers a good product, ready to be used in production.

thanks for your patience
Renato

lllab
06-05-2007, 05:38 AM
...and i might add, we know how important the osx version is. 50% of our preordersd are mac.

and i myself am also gradually switch to osx, i already bought some macpros. so even for myself i want the macversion, and we want to make it good of course.

as said the code is just to be recompiled, as c4d is multiplattform. both sdks win and osx are in refinement by vlado at the moment. we have sdks from bothplattforms. (we work with vray sdks not m with standalone, as it is now full integrated)

as renato said. we do as fast as possible, and we want to bring a good and solid product. this takes the time it needs.
cheers
stefan

ThePriest
06-05-2007, 06:19 AM
The waiting game began on 4/24/2006, Over 400 days ago.


Get it over with, the anticipation is becoming boring.

osxman
06-05-2007, 06:32 AM
...We apologize about the time needed but our target it to give to all customers a good product, ready to be used in production.

thanks for your patience
Renato
Please, there's no need to apologize Renato. We know that you're doing your very best to deliver. And I know what it's like to be a perfectionist. It can be a burden and a frustration but it pays off.

And even if the wait has been longer than I anticipated that is only because you've taken this project farther than anyone could've wished for. My guess is that this will be THE Vray version that all others will be compared to – even Vray for Max.

Also, the fact that you've continuously provided us with feedback and updates has made this waiting game much easier, at least for me. Sure, I've had my share of frustration but that will probably only make it so much sweeter when I get to install.

You have my patience and thanks,
Stéphane

lllab
06-05-2007, 06:37 AM
"The waiting game began on 4/24/2006, Over 400 days ago."

yes 400 days of hard work!
this is actually quite fast for a thing like our development...
lg
stefan

Rich-Art
06-05-2007, 07:38 AM
Yeah.. 400 days is not that much. a bit longer that 1 year.
I don't think that is very long for something like this.
You could have chosen not to announce this 400 days ago. and announce it 2 months ago.
Than a lot members would have said, wow you're quick.......

Now 400 day's later an hopefully near the 1st release, there will be a Vraybridge that blows anyone away.
I hope it will be a stable and well integrated bridge. But after reading the whole thread, I've the confidence that you and your team will release the Bridge that everybody have dreamed of...

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

Shilts
06-05-2007, 07:57 AM
i think you only have to look at how long and difficult a path it has been for other companies to build bridges to other renderers to see how complex a task that this must be.

Maxwell, Final Render, Mental Ray (for Maya), Vray for Maya are to name just a few that have taken a much longer time and the quality of the bridge has mostly left something to be desired for more than a few years.

ilay
06-05-2007, 08:09 AM
If you(Stefan or Renato) have the first not public release(Win32, 64?), can you answer - what are features(of cinema 4d and its components) really supported by this bridge?

lllab
06-05-2007, 08:55 AM
we have almost daily internal releases, what is implemented in 1.0 will be decided yet. what cant be implemented in 1.0 will come short after in updates 1.1 and 1.2. like DR or proxy.

a full feature list will be given at release. 1.0 is 95% the same as vrayformax. some things differ due the different host app functionalities. some features we added are not in vrayformax, and i think we have a better interface,

best regards
stefan

edit: ps edit: and after a short time we will support 100% maxvray features, of course all future maxvrayfeatures i cant say yet. and all that combined with the power and quality of c4d:-)

lllab
06-05-2007, 12:57 PM
@Earnest:
i tested IES lights and yes they do have good shadows in all conditions, also through and behind glas.

cheers
stefan

nycL45
06-05-2007, 01:07 PM
We should all understand by now that the VRayforC4D team is downstream from Maxon and the ChaosGroup and are not partners or equals. So, the team waits for changes or responds as changes are passed down to them.

Most of us are downstream from clients or employers and know how limited our control is over what is happening upstream.

The wait IS tough! But the team has the right game plan, spirit and skills. Our frustration with waiting is a personal matter with options as to how to vent that frustration.

To the team: keep on trucking! (translation: Excelsior! Onward and upward!)

Edit: post #1200 in 90,528 views!

RenatoT
06-05-2007, 01:14 PM
The waiting game began on 4/24/2006, Over 400 days ago.
Get it over with, the anticipation is becoming boring.

Hello ThePriest, hello all.

400 Days ago the vrayforc4d project was only a pure exporter to vray standalone.
Consider that the IES lighting on the standalone was add 2 weeks ago.. :)
This mean that not all max features was present in the vray standalone and today Chaos Group is working to implement all max features. For example, today we can't change the Ray depth for each material when in the max version is possible.

Could be good for us to release it 200 days ago.. and was better for us because this project is sponsored by nobody :)

best regards
Renato

lllab
06-05-2007, 01:31 PM
"We should all understand by now that the VRayforC4D team is downstream from Maxon and the ChaosGroup and are not partners or equals. So, the team waits for changes or responds as changes are passed down to them."

thats just ridiculous, how come you feel -without knowing anything- to post such strange speculations???

really please stop that.

we all are a small, but good team, the vrayforc4d team is lead by Renato, Daniele, and myself.
nothing downstream or not equal.
vlado is a great help and he is so kind helping, improving and adjusting vray to our needs.
maxon we can ask for c4d questions. they dont have anything to do with our project at all.

stefan

LemonNado
06-05-2007, 01:52 PM
Stefan, he meant well. But while we are at it:

Assumption is the mother of all screw up's, and dissapointment is the father.

Let's stop assuming and in turn being dissapointed, let's lean back, relax, and wait while we are doing other more valuable and cool things.

Cheers
Rainer

lllab
06-05-2007, 02:10 PM
ok, but still its untrue. so please dont post wrong assumptiosn here.

i understand how hard it is to wait, but please have the patience thats needed. we really do want to make this a nice product with a long future and much pleasure for all of us to use.

cheers
stefan

ernia
06-05-2007, 02:26 PM
Relax folks.

Let's let these geniuses do what they do best.

If they don't have anything by Siggraph 07, then we are completely within our rights to give each one of them an atomic wedgy [Seinfeld].

Keep up the amazing work team VrayforC4D!

ernia

lllab
06-05-2007, 02:34 PM
be sure it wont be that long...

by the way we just implemented a multiplier for ies. so although ies data has a fixed light strenght , in c4d we can now multiply it to make it stronger if needed. renato and daniele did that in 5 minutes;-)

cheers
stefan

Simon Wicker
06-05-2007, 02:56 PM
there's no need for such a harsh reply stefan.

the poster simply meant that you are downstream from vlado in that he is the sole person working on vray and any changes that you wish to happen with vray can only be implemented by him. this means that whatever changes you need to better create the vray bridge depends on vlado to implement them, you cannot make the changes yourself.

we have seen this with respect to the os X port, first it is done and it will release simultaneously with the pc version, now vlado is tweaking the os X version and the release is no longer sure to be a simultaneous release.

cheers, simon w.

LemonNado
06-05-2007, 03:22 PM
"although ies data has a fixed light strenght , in c4d we can now multiply it to make it stronger if needed."

That is a great addition as the only other way to regulate the light strength is a change of the over all scene scale. And that can have other painful side effects. To be able to 'bend' the IES definition into submission is a great asset! I'd say... a significant one. Actually thinking about it... the only way I will use (and love) IES lights. A big great THANKS for adding the option.

Cheers!
Rainer

nycL45
06-05-2007, 03:53 PM
Stefan, I think you misunderstood my post, which is probably my fault. Let me clarify. My post was 1) in defense of the team against the development time criticism and 2) based on numerous posts here by the team members that noted changes in SDKs or app versions (Apple, VRay, C4D, etc.) can/do affect the bridge development.

There was no intended criticism against any part or individual involved in this effort by my post. By the phrase equals or partners, I meant that the apps, the bridge ties into, develop in their own way and the team has little or nothing to say as to how a company, whose product the team is bridging to, is developing its product. This is generally true with bridges, plug-ins and scripts.

I have consistently supported, praised and demonstrated confidence in everything and everyone related to the VRayforC4D effort. Your extremely harsh response is puzzling.

Shilts
06-05-2007, 04:07 PM
I think there is a bit of a language barrier at work here guys. However good the English spoken here things can get mis-interpreted too easily (even by native speakers).

nycL45, I know what you mean't by equals and it isn't mean't as a derogatory term in your usage of it. Just a statement that that the VRay4C4D team are reliant upon the Vray team and Maxon to a certain extent for certain features, and therefore cannot always dictate the timings for the release of software if they want all features in. They rely upon certain features being enabled for them to do so.

I can also see how this could have been mis-interpreted, because, taken too literally and out of context the word 'Equals' ends up being confusing here.

ilay
06-05-2007, 04:08 PM
Stefan thanx a'lot for answer! ( i will be waiting for this public bridge)
I was in betatest's team of vray for sketchup (i test it from 1 to 3 betas) and when it crashed on hard model(with many polygons) and dev.team can't resolve this - i turn off from betatesting....i dislike it. And i turn on to cinema4d, i like it's oldy :) ar+gi+ao - see new Pavel Zoch's tutorials.... But in complex model i prefer cinemaxwell(for arch/viz only)

nycL45
06-05-2007, 04:10 PM
Shilts, I think you are right and it is probably my fault.

lllab
06-05-2007, 04:18 PM
it is ok, sorry, i understand it wasnt meant evil, i guess i missunderstood that.

but still what you said gives not the right picture. we do have certain influence, at least on chaosgroup, and there is a very nice relationship to chaosgroup.
vlado more than once did a lot of extra jobs, research, custom changes for the sdk to make the c4dvray version best as possible, if we need something is was always reacting very nice and fast. so i see this really more as a well working partnership.

by the way again we donnot make a bridge anymore. this is a custom integrated solution , we use a programming sdk not the standalone, this is quite different to some other solutions, and has big advantages for future integration.

anyway, thanks for your support and trying to help, also to all others who give such many nice and supporting posts here;-)

cheers
stefan

nycL45
06-05-2007, 04:58 PM
...there is a very nice relationship to chaosgroup.
This I/we knew.

so i see this really more as a well working partnership.
This I did not know.

by the way again we donnot make a bridge anymore. this is a custom integrated solution...
Yes, I now recall you had mentioned this. After the last few posts here, I will always remember. ;)

lllab
06-05-2007, 04:59 PM
@simon:

"we have seen this with respect to the os X port, first it is done and it will release simultaneously with the pc version, now vlado is tweaking the os X version and the release is no longer sure to be a simultaneous release."

hmm, why you say that?

the port of osx vray IS done
both version get tweaked by vlado as we need changes for both,
so winversion is tweaked, and macversion is tweaked. every day, since months.
when we find or need something we tell vlado, and he tweaks the sdk, send us new versions, we test again, it get tweaked,we test..and so on.

if nothing strange happens i just said today ago and renato too both will be released the same.

@lemonade: yes i had the idea of multiplier in ies this afternoon;-)

cheers
stefan

scanmead
06-05-2007, 05:03 PM
A good render engine, like a good wine, should not be sold before its time. ;)

In all honesty, it doesn't seem like 400 days, and it's been anything but boring. It's more like watching the rides being built at a super theme park, each one more amazing than the last... and I have opening day tickets. :D

Of course, when it does arrive, I'll disappear from the universe re-rendering everything on my HD just to see how it looks. heh.

lee

ThePriest
06-05-2007, 06:01 PM
I didn't intend to stir the pot, but look how the juices are flowing again.

I just want to see this bridge released, I've used the line "It'll be ready very soon" with clients more times than I'm comfortable with. I have one project far too large for conversion to Max that was setup with the intention of using VRay in Cinema 4D.

I just didn't expect this much waiting and uncertainty with release dates and regardless of how the comment is received, I personally am bored of waiting, the excitement is growing to tension at this point.

Erik Heyninck
06-05-2007, 06:44 PM
To quote Stefan:

"By the way again we do not make a bridge anymore. This is a custom integrated solution , we use a programming sdk not the standalone, this is quite different to some other solutions, and has big advantages for future integration."

So there will be no bridge. But a renderer inside cinema, just like AR.

Like Renato said: They would also want this to be ready as this is not a sponsored project. IOW: they didn't see one penny (cent,...) for their work yet.
But they continue and want quality instead of easy money.
Would someone (this is not meant at anyone personal, so please don't take it as an offence!) prefer to have paid at the start and now, months and months later, still not have a working version because the release was premature?

ThePriest
06-05-2007, 07:01 PM
Bridge, app, standalone render engine, plugin, whatevs!

Some on lookers awaiting this release can afford to express that others have patience, with nothing to lose through delays, while others have more at stake.

LemonNado
06-05-2007, 07:27 PM
"with nothing to lose through delays, while others have more at stake."

Well, well, well, quite the risk taker ehhhh? ;)

Rainer

Shilts
06-05-2007, 07:36 PM
Bridge, app, standalone render engine, plugin, whatevs!

Some on lookers awaiting this release can afford to express that others have patience, with nothing to lose through delays, while others have more at stake.

ThePriest have you promised clients a finished project which will rely upon the VRay release??

If so you must realise that no definite timeline has been given by the VRay4C4d team and therefore you are just guessing when it will be released.

I too have a project for a client that would benefit greatly from the VRay release (animated GI renders etc). However, I am having to assume that the lifespan of the project will go beyond the VRay release. Therefore, I have not made any promises that would involve me guessing on any technology being released. Sure, I would love to have the VRay release in time (and totally bug free), but I cannot afford to make business decisions based on it.

If a definite timeline had been given, well then I would have a right to be disappointed, but it would still be my fault for relying upon a third party and of no consequence to my client.

noseman
06-05-2007, 07:37 PM
I believe that the Vray4C4D team, has dealt with the whole project the best possible way.
We have been constantly given information about the level of development, we have had ALL our answers answered in the best possible way. And at the same time the development has gone forward in leaps.
For anyone that knows the difficulty of creating such a project, the time it has been done in, is a miracle.
Beeing an owner of other renato's products and having a brief, internet aquaintance, with Stefan, I can vouch with certainty for the quality of the upcoming product. In a nutshell, it may be the most amazing "gadget" we C4D users ever had.

My congratulations to all the members of Vray4C4D.

ThePriest
06-05-2007, 07:59 PM
"ThePriest have you promised clients a finished project which will rely upon the VRay release??"


Only because I asked 2months ago for a project status, whether it would be weeks or months until release. Perhaps I misconstrued Llab's words, but it seemed to me that it was very very close.

"Well, well, well, quite the risk taker ehhhh?"

The project in question is worth a significantly more if presented through VRay as apposed to Cinema 4D and if you were to research the cost of living in the Bay Area, you'd perhaps appreciate my sense of urgency.

I'm bitching like a little girl, I know what those guys are doing will blow us all away, I just wish they would hurry up and release it. When Llab said the words "Writing a manual" the other day, I had a feeling that alone would take at least a week.

franz78
06-05-2007, 08:10 PM
I believe that the Vray4C4D team, has dealt with the whole project the best possible way.
We have been constantly given information about the level of development, we have had ALL our answers answered in the best possible way. And at the same time the development has gone forward in leaps.
For anyone that knows the difficulty of creating such a project, the time it has been done in, is a miracle.
Beeing an owner of other renato's products and having a brief, internet aquaintance, with Stefan, I can vouch with certainty for the quality of the upcoming product. In a nutshell, it may be the most amazing "gadget" we C4D users ever had.

My congratulations to all the members of Vray4C4D.

total agree,
i think hte vrayforc4d team make great things with a very smal resurce.
have an idea hou many difficoult are there in this kind of project?
make a new company
find the rigth team
have the informatin from2 company
devellop and expand the project
manage the marketing
mange a web site
reply to all question on varius forum and mail
and not finaly somtime eat and selap
oops and work, because Stefan, Renato and Daniele, dont have a cent from nobody.



best
Franz

lllab
06-05-2007, 08:30 PM
@priest:

i cannot do nothing for what feeling you had. but some things i always said:
1) short before release i will officially end preorder phase
2) i will post it here when i have a date
3) there will be the new site online short before

so none of this we have posted here.
i dont know how you come to the conclusion that is will be released within days or was planned to release already. writing a manual is hard work by the way not doable in 1 or 2 weeks. at least not if one want to make it usable.

and you can believe we want this to be released more urgent than anybody else. we invested huge amounts of energy and work and we will only be paid after release. so of course we hurry up. but any pushing will not make it faster.

so i understand you want it urgent, i hope you understand we do the best we can.
cheers
stefan

Simon Wicker
06-05-2007, 09:03 PM
hmm, why you say that?

in general if something is still being worked on then i wouldn't say it was finished.

many, many pages back the mac users were told that the os X version of Vray was done (as in finished) which obviously caused much joy and celebration as normally mac users are second class citizens when it comes to developing esoteric software.

now however we are told that actually the os X version of Vray is still being worked on and may not be ready when the pc version is released. this is something that we mac users have had prior experience of and so it can't be a suprise that some people may be concerned.

cheers, simon w.

ThePriest
06-05-2007, 09:16 PM
I didn't make a wild assumption regarding a release date,
I based it upon what you said when I asked for a status update in March
and you suggested that it was 95% complete, forgive me for doing the
math and putting that at about 3weeks.

You also used the words "Weeks, not months", and it's been 2 months.

Now if the manual takes weeks to write, then I'll put my anticipation
to rest until the end of the month.

People act like I'm taking cheap shots, I'm basing it upon
an estimation that you made...

Case closed.

lllab
06-05-2007, 09:33 PM
ok its simple. we can say what current state is or we can just say nothing as others do. i start to understand why others like maxon just hide all info.

simon. the vray osx version was done by vlado months ago,that was what i said.
the port was very important as it was the first working osx version of vray, i was very happy when this was done, that was the main step, and porting the whole thing was certainly not easy to do! that this needs to be refined and tweaked, same as winversion, is clear, otherwise we would have been finished.

again you push that it will not be released at the same time- i said extactly the opposite more than one time.

again if something gets refined that does not mean something is not existing. i clearly said also the winversion is refined the same way. and nobody question the winversion?

again BOTH win AND OSX sdks is being worked on!- both exist but are not final.

i dont really get the hostility and strange or false posts here from some.
it is very easy, we can just quit giving any info, if that results of beeing open is negative.
i hope this is not what you all want.

cheers
stefan

lllab
06-05-2007, 09:38 PM
yes priest and now we are at 97,5% ;-)

i always said i will tell here before release will come with date.
and i said 100x that i cannot give any date before, software development is not linear in time.

cheers
stefan

nycL45
06-05-2007, 09:47 PM
again you push that it will not be released at the same time- i said extactly the opposite more than one time.
OS X & Windoz to be released at the same time: see post #1215, next to the last sentence.

Please continue as you and the team have; we have lived the other side and prefer the way you guys have handled updates, etc.

ThePriest
06-05-2007, 09:48 PM
97,5% of 400 = 390

So that's 10 days

I'll come back on the 15th to see the words 99.2%.

Until then........................

LemonNado
06-05-2007, 09:50 PM
I'm bitching like a little girl...
All good as long as you go easy on those girly giggles! haha
Rainer
PS:Bay Area... BAHHHH I'm in New York City... omg.... teh bancruptcy.... ;)

lllab
06-05-2007, 09:51 PM
i just say its not linear, did i? what you do is linear math.

i count the features of to do list. how long the last 3% take i cant say- once again;-)
cheers
stefan

ps. to make it easy i will post here 2 weeks prior to release ok?

LemonNado
06-05-2007, 10:04 PM
97,5% of 400 = 390

So that's 10 days

I'll come back on the 15th to see the words 99.2%.

Until then........................

Considering that it was 95% just two weeks ago, it really picked up speed. The development speed is now pretty accurate 14 znark/fortnight. And if you like to see the release date, then join me in the seminar for time travel which starts in two weeks ago.
Rainer

pillemann
06-05-2007, 10:42 PM
thats nice lllab, so i will not miss the preorder. i am right u said once with the announcement of the releasedate i still can preorder this 'lower price' package? :D

Srek
06-06-2007, 05:08 AM
Personaly i think a delayed released with a working product is by far preferable to an early release of a non production ready tool. If expected dates don't make it, so what? This is software development and if there is something i know about software development than it's that you can't realy force it without serious drawbacks.
Anyone planning to use VRAY and CINEMA 4D in a production environment should also plan some time after inital release to come up to speed with it. Deadlines are nothing you should face with a tool you haven't realy used before.

Cheers
Björn

Simon Wicker
06-06-2007, 09:58 AM
If expected dates don't make it, so what?

only programmers get away with stuff like this - in the real world we tend to have deadlines that we stick to no matter what.

'sorry, i know i promised you a series of matte paintings of 16th century london but i'm having a few problems with the last 5% - i'll have them finished sometime, maybe. you can delay the release of the show a few months can't you...'

cheers, simon w.

Srek
06-06-2007, 10:25 AM
only programmers get away with stuff like this - in the real world we tend to have deadlines that we stick to no matter what.
In general you are correct, if i were to ask a good developer to implement a known algorithm into an app he knows pretty well i would expect him to stick to the schedule. However if he has to invent new solutions on the go the real effort simply can't be determined beforehand.

The difference is that one is the application of tools and effort to a problem with a known solution while the other is the creation of realy new thing that holds problems and obstacles that were not encountered before.

Cheers
Björn

lllab
06-06-2007, 10:28 AM
ahem, Mr. Wicker,
...and we are taking about a programm and programmers- they also should get their respect.

not from you as it looks, and sorry we are not in your "real" world, but in the strange off world of software developing;-)


once again:
1) no date was ever said

2) thank you that "we get away" with this. But You are in no position to "demand" anything from me.

3) i would suggest you just do as if we never had given out inside info about our project.
so you dont even know vrayforc4d is in works, you will know when it is released.

its easy just ignore this thread if you dont like it or us...(and i will also ignore your post from now)
ciao,
Stefan

Rich-Art
06-06-2007, 10:46 AM
I hope we do not go into a fight thread.
Give the team their time they need to make a good product.
And lets not fight about a release date. When it is finished we will see it.
It is pointless to fight about a great thing in developing.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

lllab
06-06-2007, 10:50 AM
no it will not, sorry

but disrespect to Renato and Daniele is something i will not let stand here.

let me thank at this point to all good and nice support from so many here, and also for the nice and encouraging emails i got today:-)

i think Srek point it out very good, and please all dont forget, plan some time to get into it after rleease, as it is with every other new software too.

best
Stefan

v-empire
06-06-2007, 10:55 AM
Just imagine where we would be if the time that ran into answering 2 Billion questions
about release dates, would have been spent on programing and betatesting.
My suggestion is: lets stop arguing about dates in this thread,
it take so much space that its hard to filter out the messages that contain valuable info about the features.

Holger

Rich-Art
06-06-2007, 10:57 AM
Agree 100%

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

ooo
06-06-2007, 11:07 AM
I'm very sorry to find this negative atmosphere in this thread. There is absolutely no point in blaming the developers. No promises have been made, and even if they made them it's useless to deliver if it's not ready. I think softwaredevelpment si absolutely not comaparable to making mattepaintings. How creative and demanding that can be is out of the question, but you can make an estimate of the needed time based on experience. With Softwaredevelopment you cannot fall back on experience, it's a dark tunnel where you don't know when you'll reach the exit.

So once again applause for the Vrayteam!

http://www.odeontwerp.nl/images/applause.gif

sketchbook
06-06-2007, 11:29 AM
i just want to say i still have 100% respect for the c4d team. you guys rock!

dan22
06-06-2007, 11:43 AM
Simon Wicker:

I usually really respect all your posts, but I do think you are being a little unfair on the Vray team here.

We all knew the situation as far as timing was concerned, and while we would all like delivery yesterday, there is no point hassling these guys. As they have explained, they also have every interest in completing asap becuase they have done over a year's worth of work on this and not been paid yet, so they would deliver now if they could.

One of the reasons it isn't ready yet is because they have made the decision, during development, to greatly improve on the finished product via full integration as well as incorporating various other features (eg IES). Surely this must be worth waiting for?

It's not the same as one of your or my standard commissions, where time is usually of the essence. But in this case, there was never a fixed deadline for delivery, and we who pre-ordered agreed to the contract on those terms - so while frustration is understandable, we have no basis for actual complaint.

I feel the longer we wait, the better it will probably be. And if not.. well, we've not exactly lost anything.

+++++++

ThePriest:

Personally, I wouldn't plan any particular commercial project in anticiaption of VrayforC4D. Apart from the unknown delivery date, it will take time to get up to speed on the software, creating, or converting, all your materials, and (hopefully not) dealing with any bugs. Any of those could jeopardise your deadline.

+++++++

Good things come to those who wait - hard for us to believe, living in a world of instant gratification, but we could try seeing it as character-forming?

Simon Wicker
06-06-2007, 11:49 AM
my apologies to stefan and the vray team. i should stick to answering questions.

i was always told not to talk politics or religion with other people.

cheers, simon w.

lllab
06-06-2007, 11:54 AM
thanks Simon,
cheers
Stefan

JoelOtron
06-06-2007, 12:00 PM
Edited---backing out slowly---:)

Martin Kay
06-06-2007, 12:28 PM
Hey, what a storm in a tea cup!
I'm sure vRay will be great when it arrives, but life doesn't depend on it- surely...

Martin K