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pzdm
04-05-2007, 06:08 AM
It is only my own speculation :-): this thread has been started 24.4.2006, I have some champagne in my refrigerator for first anniversary, I hope we will get a fantastic gift :-)...

Have a nice day, Pavel

ThePriest
04-05-2007, 08:25 AM
More info on VRayforC4D Training- USB (decided to go with USB for practicality reasons)

http://www.priest3d.com/

Sale will be $60 (including p&p outside of the US) or slightly less if I can re-negotiate a bulk price. Tomorrow I'll include a pre-order form to collect the names of those interested.

No money required!

*llab, check your cgtalk inbox - quick question :)

pzdm
04-05-2007, 08:40 AM
More info on VRayforC4D Training- USB (decided to go with USB for practicality reasons)

http://www.priest3d.com/

Sale will be $60 (including p&p outside of the US) or slightly less if I can re-negotiate a bulk price. Tomorrow I'll include a pre-order form to collect the names of those interested.

No money required!

Hi there,
nice, do you plan some demo-preview files? Will Illab or Maxon itself (like Janine and Mathew DVDs) distribute your DVD?

thx Pavel

ThePriest
04-05-2007, 08:44 AM
Hi there,
nice, do you plan some demo-preview files? Will Illab or Maxon itself distribute your DVD?

thx Pavel

Sure, I'll no doubt show some medium *Res footage from the video tutorials.

I haven't spoken to llab, but I'll likely distrubute through the company providing the
USB drives.

midnightgreen
04-05-2007, 11:20 AM
Hullo. I geekisly read through the past 50 pages or so, and as i gathered that as vray is vray, you wont have C4D's HAIR. Which is kind of a blow if you plan to do anything other than Non-Organic scenes. Someone mentioned that you could do try to render them as a separate passes and then try to put them together in a post app like AE or Photoshop, but i see a number of problems with that. Although this approach might work for a module such as the Sketch&Toon as that is an abstract look from the start, but with HAIR it just simply wont look realistic, as it was rendered under completely different conditions, Vray treats everything a whole lot differently than AR, i am just thinking about lights for example, it just simply wont look as it belonged in the same scene. Its like rendering a character without hair in Vray, and then try to put hair on it but under different lighting conditions, maybe i am missing something but that wont really look believable.

Also, I might be wrong about this, but as Vray can use various camera effects such as DOF and other real camera characteristics etc that C4D's cant, then even if Vray's camera was pixel perfectly in the same spot, the picture will turn out quite differently (spatial/geometric distortions etc), and that would in effect make any post processing composition tricks impossible.

The most viable solution i see for this would be to somehow include a bridge for C4D's HAIR, maybe in a subsequent release...?

AAAron
04-05-2007, 12:13 PM
Now I don´t have the hair module, but as I understood it you can convert the hair to polys if you want to, of course it will give a higher poly count. But that would be a way or?

Srek
04-05-2007, 01:39 PM
midnightgreen: You are aware that you can let Hair create polygons? That way VRAY should be able to cope with it.
In general volumetric Hair needs a dedicated shader, it's usualy not possible to pass hair shader information from an app to a renderer, you have to use the hair shader the renderer provides.

Cheers
Björn

lllab
04-05-2007, 01:44 PM
@midnightgreen: every engine has its pros and cons, why dont you just use Ar when you need hair? ;-)

vray is a thirdparty engine and doesnt support such modules of course nativly "only" as geometry. also not in max(max doesnt have a hair solution like cinema). still great things are done with it. as said very often here vray is not meant as a competitor to ar, more a good compagnion....

of course for compositing one always takes the same camera available in both engines.

if an implementation would be so trivial for sure we would support hair and vue and so on...
but just see maxons own AR development-AR is also developed quite slow as they have to support all aspects of the software. the obvious disadvatage is that they cannot update ar just so easiliy.

maybe in future we support things like hair, but first let us bring out the main package. be sure Renato is a very creative head, and if things are possible he will bring it to us c4d users....

but please understand we have limited recourses and can only make one step after the other.

we started one year ago in trying to make a rough bridge connection to vray standalone- and now we already have done much more in making it an integrated rendersolution for c4d even supporting most c4d & thirdparty shaders (a plus to maxversion)-all direct in cinema, no need to go outside the app anymore.

cheers
stefan

ThePriest
04-05-2007, 06:27 PM
Llab, I have receipt of you having read my message and I mentioned it here.
Could you afford me the courtesy of a reply?

lllab
04-05-2007, 07:04 PM
sure...:-)
st.

ThePriest
04-05-2007, 07:06 PM
sure...:-)
st.

Thanks, just wanted to clear that up.

NicoAdri
04-05-2007, 07:08 PM
Priest,

Looks like you're ready to go with this and I'd like to book a copy now! However, waiting for VrayForC4d is beginning to get very very painful!

I'm loving every minute I spend with C4d but at the moment I can't compete with the other renderers in our office who are using 3DS + VRay. They are probably better at it anyway.

We're in an Architectural practice that uses almost exclusively Macs and if we could get C4D+VRay then the last PCs would (possibly) be ditched. But until the case can be made then I'm p*ssing in the wind.

Will the Mac version of VRayForC4d be released at the same time as the PC version? I'd bet there'd be a lot of Mac practices out there that would take it up!!!

TIA

Adri

RenatoT
04-05-2007, 10:05 PM
Hi all,

Today easy effects like Lens Flare are working on vray rendering because are just post effects. The hair integration is just the sum of Hair post rendering (that it's make at first) and the vray render.. just it's a deep compositing.. and david can correct me if i wrong.

Our goal is to make a perfect integration with cinema 4D in all cases.. where possible :) and i'll try to integrate hair with the vray rendering.

thanks you all for the patience.
Renato T.

helluvapixel
04-05-2007, 10:51 PM
I did a search on 'price' in this thread but I wanted to get clarity that the price (correct me) $670 pre-order is Euros and regular price is Euros too.

ThePriest
04-05-2007, 11:28 PM
I believe we'll see 1000's of user migrating to Cinema 4D upon this release. You have a Gold mine of opportunity with this product. Ultimately it sounds much more tightly integrated into the app than currently available with Max. Even if they're on par with one another, the user friendly world of Cinema 4D is more attractive from many perspectives.

midnightgreen
04-05-2007, 11:30 PM
thats great news, i didnt mean to be a killjoy, all i wanted to hear was....., well basically what Renato just said, i didnt expect it to be in the 1.0 release 100% bugfree working, just something that would be done maybe in the first update. Until then animators just have to render bald people : ) I think it will be best if the bridge will include Maxon's HAIR, as that plugin has the most support, biggest community, training etc, and its something that will always be developed further by Maxon.

Cheers

lllab
04-06-2007, 08:40 AM
good news renato:-)

jclark073: yes , as we are placed in europe, all prices are in euros and without local taxes ( tax is only for eu citizen)

cheers
stefan

NicoAdri
04-06-2007, 09:01 AM
So once we have this, what (apart from the more user friendly interface/modelling) will be the advantages of C4D with V-Ray over 3DS Max with V-Ray?

Price?

OS X? ...big one for me but I fear it will come much later if at all. Renato/Stefan, could you comment on this?

Anything else?

TIA

Adri

lllab
04-06-2007, 11:37 AM
the first and main advantage of course is that it runs within Maxon c4d!
- that is nice for all people who prefer cinema for one or the other reason. or for those who use both c4d and max (or c4d and maya) and want to have similar renderengines on both. cinema is the plattform of choise for more and more people, growing faster than the competitors. vray might even boost this a bit as the availability of renderengines is a big plus for an animation package and for big studios.

the next advantage is that vrayforc4d supports the very nice c4d noise shaders and also the great c4d-enhenced shader set from chris- (we recommend them to everyone!), also most other procedual shaders from 3rd party groups, the c4d layer shader alone in combination with all c4d proceduals is gold worth i think. at least for me:-)

one advantage for me is our material layout that doesnt hide certain functions of vray. it is exactly made like vray works internally following the logic of vraybrdf. it has also a bit more control over settings i think, in combination with all c4d shaders the possibilities are endless:-)

other small things of course like we linked the physical sky to the c4d sun expression(optional) for extremly easy controll of outdoor renderings- i love this very much. just adjust day, time and region, and render, with enhenced ogl you see shadow preview in realtime. it supports the interactive renderregion of c4d wich i like too often.

osx of course for all mac users (i think the maya version will be also osx in future)

we suppoert unlimited NET which is a bit easier to handle than max's backburner.

i am sure i have forgotten quite some things;-)...

technically seen the 2 vray version are the same. after a few updates this year i guess both will be also identical from functions, each plattform having its pros and cons depending on the base system and taste. 3dmax like functions combined with the easy and fun to use within c4d is our goal!

overall vray for max is developed over many years now, and also max did get a lot better and more stable over time. so i dont want / can't to say any bad about it.

everybody has to decide for him/herself, but the important thing is that we CAN decide what animation package we use along with vray:-)

cheers
stefan
vrayforc4d

brammelo
04-06-2007, 02:29 PM
Well Stefan, you did forget one thing.

Max has a rather impressive price tag, while you can combine Vray with the standard version of C4D - which in itself costs you around €685 without taxes. Of course, it's better for MAXON if users would combine it with one or more modules (and for most users, it's also better if they do), but if you really want you can can have a kick-ass rendering performance for only a fraction of the Max price.

Cheers,
BaRa

lllab
04-06-2007, 02:36 PM
:-)
yep
Brammelo you are right- this is one advantage too...

cheers
stefan

LemonNado
04-06-2007, 03:10 PM
What nobody should forget is also that VRay does NOT have an 'EASY BUTTON'.
It is as easy to make a 'bad' render in VRay as it is in AR, FR, MR...
Getting a good result out of VRay takes AT LEAST the same effort and knowledge as it does on the other engines. But you can! soon... sometime... in theory... 8).
Rainer


PS:Looking at the euro exchange rte right now makes me feel sick.... Good I still have my German account... And a few Euros in there. It's becoming rather expensive in US$... with the $ loosing rapidly in value...

ThePriest
04-06-2007, 04:52 PM
What nobody should forget is also that VRay does NOT have an 'EASY BUTTON'..

Precisely

It's a tricky render engine with a wealth of options and it's a case of a lot of individual trial and error before it works for you.

There's so many issues that while I'm sure the solutions are scattered around the web in various forums, there's not really a practical 'tried and tested' guide that always points you in the right direction.

For example: If you're using numerous lights for a interior shot and decide to use 'Light Cache for glossy rays', you're going to run into huge issues with Artifacts.

There's no single way or single preset that will save your render,
it's an engine you have to learn through and through.


http://www.priest3d.com/cgtalk/example1.jpg

VRay Settings (http://www.priest3d.com/cgtalk/vraysettings.jpg)

JoelOtron
04-06-2007, 05:18 PM
Are there any Vray books published per chance that one might reccommend?

rob rhodes
04-06-2007, 05:22 PM
Just looking at those settings makes me more concerned about the complexity of Vray and Priests comments about numerous test renderings also worries me a bit. I know Vray is fast but is there a lot of time spent tweaking all those hundred and one settings with deadlines approaching! I do tweaking with AR and it can drive you mad and waste a lot of time, i was hoping vray would solve a lot of this with its superior GI. My friend uses Vray with max and says its pretty easy - just doesn't look that way to me! What would be great is to have the simplicity of AR with the GI power of Vray or even better a happy medium that gave you some extra options but didn't swamp you with settings - something you don't need when its getting late.

Is there a way to get basic/medium/advanced settings so we can at least ease our way into it? It will be great when we have a handel on everything but just might get a bit frustrating in the process.

LucentDreams
04-06-2007, 05:30 PM
thats the issue from day one that most people neglected to consider, the same thign happened with Final render and its the same thing we jsut discussed ina thread about Renderman with cinema. many of these renderers can produce quality renders and are know as being especially goood for certain types of things, but having a reputation of good quality doesn't mean its a simple click and render solution. Of course like any GI renderer thered are a plethora of options that can greatly change results. You'd be surprised how simple cinema's GI is to use in comparison to both FR and Vray, but its simplicity in lack of features and options is also what hinders it from getting super fast results of higherquality etc.

ThePriest
04-06-2007, 06:02 PM
I've got to run to a green-screen shoot,
but I'll quickly say;

Don't let those settings become a deterrent,
like anything, once you know it, you know it.

The reason I want to create these USB Intructional
videos, is to show you 'screw ups', show you VRay
not doing what you thought it would and how to remedy it.

Tutorials/Guides such as the VRay Help page
shows you 100% correct way to do things,
boggles your mind with words and concepts that
we're new to and generally doesn't make life easy.

The practical approach from my perspective is
to say; "Here's a scene, here's what it looks like now.
This is how we make it the best it can be"

..
Good day

lllab
04-06-2007, 07:24 PM
yes of course as with all engines one has to learn it. there is no make pixar movie button;-)

we will provide sample materials and preset-settings for all to start. for outdoors it is very easy, indoors you should know some things about the settings.
vray gives you wide room to experiment and to adjust your settings to ones need- it is a pro-engine no toy. still i find it very intuitive and fluent to work with...

and we will open a vrayforc4d-forum where renato, daniele and i will be too, and users can exchange, also with info sections for rendersettings, materials, interface etc.

also thanks priest there will be very soon good thirdparty material to learn...
(there are no books about vray-but endless info on the net)

cheers
stefan

NicoAdri
04-06-2007, 08:51 PM
Well,

I was on the tearful verge of ditching C4D and going back to learning MAX because I was worried about how the development of VRayForC4D was going. But on having read the responses to my post I feel happy to continue my C4D learning knowing that the product is in safe hands.

I'd be interested in knowing how much work is involved in porting the VRay code over to OS X. Stefan, has Chaos given you the source code to convert to OS X or did they already have this in hand? I'd imagine that it would involve some considerable work! I was a programmer in a previous life and I'm sure there's lots of issues in porting to OS X.

TIA

Adri

machmirdenlukas
04-06-2007, 08:56 PM
Precisely

It's a tricky render engine with a wealth of options and it's a case of a lot of individual trial and error before it works for you.

There's so many issues that while I'm sure the solutions are scattered around the web in various forums, there's not really a practical 'tried and tested' guide that always points you in the right direction.

For example: If you're using numerous lights for a interior shot and decide to use 'Light Cache for glossy rays', you're going to run into huge issues with Artifacts.

There's no single way or single preset that will save your render,
it's an engine you have to learn through and through.


http://www.priest3d.com/cgtalk/example1.jpg

VRay Settings (http://www.priest3d.com/cgtalk/vraysettings.jpg)

hi thepriest,
i think your scene would benefit from not choosing caustics and an other colormapping mode.
cheers.

lllab
04-06-2007, 09:25 PM
Nico,

the osx version of vray is ready, vlado made it;-)
we do "only" the c4d side...

cheers
stefan

NicoAdri
04-06-2007, 09:36 PM
:-)

That's great news Stefan!

All we need now is a..........

...release date!!!

:-)

ThePriest
04-06-2007, 10:02 PM
hi thepriest,
i think your scene would benefit from not choosing caustics and an other colormapping mode.
cheers.

The settings I posted weren't related to that particular scene.
The caustics you thought you were seeing are splotches from the IES
lights not having had enough samples to compute.

Personally I try to avoid color mapping and strive more for a well balanced
lighting setup. If I need it at the end, then it's useful of course,
but IMHO shouldn't be the 'do all, end all' for scene lighting.

NicoAdri
04-06-2007, 10:09 PM
what is colour mapping?

doh!!!

ngrava
04-06-2007, 11:11 PM
Well, I just have to pipe up here on the subject of ease of use and other renderers. I've used Vray for four years now so it's often second nature to me. I know this doesn't make me a very good judge of ease of use but bare with me please: First off, to me, it all depends on your previous experiences with other renderers and your expectations of Vray. Don't be so quick to think that Vray is just like all the other renderers.

For instance, if you are used to PRenderMan, Vray will make no sense at all and it will be very hard to get good results. Most RenderMan TD's "Paint with light". This is a technique where you add small, very focused lights to illuminate all the separate parts of the image independently and often coupled with using non-shadow casting lights for fills. People often think that this give them the ultimate control. Ultimatly this is based on your expirience and perception of what is good lighting. For a very experienced lighting TD, this may be the case but, You can't do that in Vray. Or rather, your shouldn't do that in Vray. ;) It's meant to simulate light. It's best to let it do the thing it does best. Many people start lighting a scene like that and then turn on GI as an "effect", which turns into horrendously long render times and often looks like crap anyway (never use non-shadow casting lights!). This usually leads to the opinion that GI is not ready for prime time which is obviously not the case. With Vray and just about any other GI renderer, you need to start backwards from the usual painting technique. Let the GI fill in the space, pay attention to the environment and, if needed, add more lights. It's a good general rule of thumb to try and make the most out of one or two lights before adding more. this all goes to crap with Arch/Vis unfortunately, due to all the little lighting fixtures that are usually in a house. In some cases, you can actually use a single light with a cutout "cucaloris" map that makes it look like a bank of lights. Never tried it myself but it should work in theory. :)

If you have only used Mental Ray, you can get caught up in Mental Rays solution to slow rendering: Avoiding ray tracing. When you try and render without ray tracing (using reflection maps, shadow maps and such), you are having to resort to fakes. Vray is setup to be as realistic as a biased (interpolated) GI engine can be. When you try and trick it, it often bites you with unexpected resutls. You are far better off using real reflections, transparency, blurry effects and so on then clever tricks. Those tricks work in other renderers because you are trying to compensate for something that's laking. Often times, Vray is actually "that fast" and can handle a huge amount of rays. Until you actually use Vray and come to fully understand just how many rays are being traced, and compare that with other renderers, it just not a good idea to say that Brazil and finalRender are just as fast. ;)

Here's a funny little story: When the beta for 1.5 came along people noticed that the old version was slightly faster with the exact same settings with the same scenes. As it turns out Vlado, let it out of the bag that 1.5 was significantly faster. So, instead of just leaving it at that, he decided to up the default maximum number rays. When you went to render an old scene, the render time was a little more but the results where stunning.


Here's some tips to get you thinking:

Vray often relies on real-world surface properties. So, many people are confused by the wording in the materials. First off, you need to think about how things work in the real world. For instance, all objects reflect light (unless they are black). So, in reality, there is no surface property call specularity that controls highlights. Specularity is a property of reflection. Surface reflection is based on a value that slides between perfectly defused (matte) and perfectly specular (mirror). Therefore, it's a good idea to always have reflection and use glossiness to slide between the two. You might be thinking that that sounds like to much but I can assure you that it will add that little something extra to your scenes that will make them stand out. Also, Vray has a switch for Fresnel reflections. unless you are trying to make an actual mirror, Use it. If you really need to control "Specularity", you can always "decouple" the Highlight property from the reflection.

Another confusing material property is 'Refraction' and 'IOR.' For some reason Vlado decided to call transparency, Refraction which, as far as I knew was the effect of light bending through a transparent surface. Well whatever is correct terminology, just remember that when your looking to make objects transparent in Vray, just use 'Refraction'. To complicate things more, the property IOR stands for "Index Of Refraction" which is what people usually think of when they are looking for refraction.

In the Vray render panel in Max, there is a drop down menu for irradience map presets. I don't know if they are going to make it into VrayforC4D but I hope so. If so, use these. They where created by Vlado and he understands the renderer better then anyone. ;) I rarely ever fiddle with the actual irradience map settings. However, changing the maximum H-sphere (hemisphere) rays can really speed up test renders.

Lastly, don't forget about the colors in your environment. Often times I have tried to light a room that is made up entirely of dark colors and I just can't seem to get the light level up enough to seem normal. Remember that light bounces off of bright colors and gets absorbed by dark ones. If need be, you can always bounce light off of "white" cards or add more light directly, but most times you can just leave out the wall behind the camera and use a bright sky color. Sky/BG color is your friend.

Happy Rendering!

ThePriest
04-06-2007, 11:40 PM
In the end, information is key to getting people involved, interested
and ultimately sharing their knowledge.

So on that note and as I'm in a charitable mood.

I've decided to create a dedicated website with the
videos - pdf tutorials I had in mind readily available without charge.

lllab
04-07-2007, 07:31 AM
dear priest and ngrava,

you can use our future vrayforc4d forum for such details, we havent even yet released and you already discuss render setting details;-)

ngrava you are right vray is as physical correct as a biased solution can be, and you have very deep control to adjust all you want.

By the way our material is different, we call it refraction layer not transparency- and we also have weigting to each layer, "simple tranparency" is actually part of each weight layer. i think this is much better than the maxmaterial, and is like vray calculates it internally.

i just might add, if you have at least some experience of renderengines, starting vray isnt too hard. i dived in and feel at home after few hours. of course there are some parts, specially with clamping hdri values where you have to look to make the right. thanks to priest and also our website people(also beginners) will find all info they need:-)

sure we will give settings not only for iradiance map, but for all common types of gi combinations - the art is to combine good GI settings (the irradiance map settings are quite easy to understand, i find by the way)

cheers
stefan

NicoAdri
04-07-2007, 07:48 AM
Nice One Priest!!!

I need to stop thinking about V-RayForC4D! Might be months yet!
;-)

cristiantumiati
04-07-2007, 08:11 AM
Hi Stefan,

Little question...... I have a workstation of new generation (2 x intel quad-core 5355....therefore 8 cpu).

With FRY render and AR are used all the CPU while with FR-2 I can exploit only 4 cores.

I hope that with V-ray can be exploited to full the new conception of CPUs that will have more and more core, even in 2008 also 16 cores for Workstation.

Have you made a will v-ray also on this type of computer?

RenatoT
04-07-2007, 10:00 AM
Hi all,

Cristian: of course :)

Vray support N-Cpu, the bridge too.

Cheers
Renato

lllab
04-07-2007, 10:36 AM
yes as renato says vray is extremly efficient with more cores:-)

the more cores the better, through the bucket system you have a like small renderfarm in one machine, also for lightcache many cores are good.

the new 8 core macpros are ideal vray machines:-)
and if we have 16 cores net Year even better...

also the vray licence system has no limitation regarding cores per workstation.

cheers
stefan

nycL45
04-07-2007, 01:53 PM
In the end, information is key to getting people involved, interested
and ultimately sharing their knowledge.

So on that note and as I'm in a charitable mood.

I've decided to create a dedicated website with the
videos - pdf tutorials I had in mind readily available without charge.

Very generous of you, Priest. Thanks.

(ThePriest + Bad Ass + charitable mood = ?)

ngrava, thanks for the preview.

Renato + Stefan, it all sounds great but, giddyap guys - carefully. ;)

shtl
04-07-2007, 02:20 PM
Thanks Ngrava and ThePriest!
For thoose who haven't yet worked on Vray, it is very usefull I think. For my part, I allready
started hunting tutorials here and there, but since they are for max... ultimately having c4d users but with strong experience with Vray helping out with guidlines is very precious for me (us ?).

And since I'm arround, thanks again and again and again to all Vrayforc4d hard workers :thumbsup:

So if I got you right, there will be a dedicated forum?

lllab
04-07-2007, 04:19 PM
"giddyap guys - carefully"

?
what does that mean?

" So if I got you right, there will be a dedicated forum?"
yes i already prepared it- it will be public to all vray users with first day of release.

cheers
stefan

Ernest Burden
04-07-2007, 04:31 PM
"giddyap guys - carefully"

?
what does that mean?

giddyup refers to getting a horse to move, careful refers to being on a horse that has started moving--maybe a lot faster than you would like.

lllab
04-07-2007, 04:34 PM
edit: ok think i got it;-), but thanks Earnest...

cheers
stefan

lllab
04-07-2007, 05:31 PM
any way, i wish all nice weekend and good easter weekend to all who celebrate it:-)

cheers
stefan

midnightgreen
04-07-2007, 05:55 PM
Hey lllab, what about the rest of the modules, would you care to share with us which of the original C4D modules will be supported and to what extent by VrayforC4D? such as:

HAIR
Dynamics
MOCCA
Thinking Particles
Sketch and Toon
Mograph

RenatoT
04-07-2007, 06:30 PM
Hi All,

midnightgreen:

Dynamics, Mograph (shaders too), Thinking Particle and Mocca are working on Vray.. they don't are rendering dependent.

About Hair and Sketch and Toon i'll try to implement but can be done from a first view.

Cheers
Renato

Ernest Burden
04-07-2007, 07:04 PM
About Hair and Sketch and Toon i'll try to implement but can be done from a first view.

Hair would be good to include, but Sketch&Toon is it's own little engine. How do we see this combining with vray? Does FinalToon for Max work with vray?

Neil V
04-07-2007, 07:11 PM
Wow. This all sounds very promising.

Hi All,

midnightgreen:

Dynamics, Mograph (shaders too), Thinking Particle and Mocca are working on Vray.. they don't are rendering dependent.

About Hair and Sketch and Toon i'll try to implement but can be done from a first view.

Cheers
Renato

lllab
04-07-2007, 07:14 PM
hi earnest,
sketch and toon and hair are both its own little engines, they do some kind of heavy intern compositing if i understood right. both are not rendering in "normal" way. renato meant he can do it with hair, maybe with s&t.

well, but for updates, not for the beginning;-)

in max final toon or so is not working within vray.

hair is a great thing maxon did, hope we finally will bring it in, it is good not only for hair but for grassfields, plants etc...i think pavel did show some amazing non hair hair here:-).
(that would be a HUGE plus in comparence max-vray;-)
cheers
stefan

lllab
04-07-2007, 07:30 PM
by the way the sketchshaders work partly too, i just tired the spotshader. for pop art like images this is nice for raster effects...

cheers
stefan

kossoolli
04-08-2007, 09:36 AM
Does vrayforc4d support the fog-object? Will there be a list on release about what is working and what not?

ThirdEye
04-08-2007, 10:51 AM
Does vrayforc4d support the fog-object? Will there be a list on release about what is working and what not?

what's the fog object? the environment object you mean?

nycL45
04-08-2007, 01:54 PM
"giddyap guys - carefully"

?
what does that mean?

" So if I got you right, there will be a dedicated forum?"
yes i already prepared it- it will be public to all vray users with first day of release.

cheers
stefan

Stefan,

Ernest did a good job of explaining what I had intended to be casual wit with this undelying meaning: all the vray/bridge this, vray/bridge that is so exciting that it is *wished* the development could be accelerated ("giddyap", a.k.a. giddyup) but everyone knows *it has to be done right* ("carefully"). Yep, it is a contradiction and as has been said here before, all feel the team is doing the right thing with the VrayforC4D development. Vray quality/C4D integratiion, the positive tone of the posts here, you guys developing the bridge and that the waiting will be over "_ _ _ _" (word banned due to misuse by _~_) made me do it. Hope you did not mind. Do keep up the good works.

L.

kossoolli
04-08-2007, 02:45 PM
Yes, the evironment object.

lllab
04-08-2007, 05:06 PM
no problem nycL45:-)
some times its also the language barrier, i talk here in a second language not my native one- so sometimes i simply dont understand all or misunderstand it;-)
i think now i understand what you mean, we try to make a good release not to far away.

kosso olli, i dont think the enviroment object i supported., but you have similar settings in vray enviroment-they also suppport hdri. for fog vray-brdf supports real volume-this can also be used with c4d 3dnoise par example. i guess you can make pretty good fog with it, i made a small test and it renders nice and fast also with gi on.

nice easter sunday to all!,
cheers
stefan

kossoolli
04-08-2007, 05:24 PM
Thats nice to hear.

Rich-Art
04-08-2007, 09:41 PM
Hi Stefan,

Will Vray render a bit nicely on my "old" AMD Athlon x2 4600+ too?
I only read about renderfarms with 8 or more cores.
I don't have that much cpu's I can use. :sad:

Happy eastern everybody.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

lllab
04-09-2007, 06:48 AM
hi rich-art

actually on evermotion some of the very good examples are made on older p4 and amds .
you just need a bit more time:-)

so they show what still can be done with older cpus an x2 isnt to bad anyway....
cheers
stefan

Rich-Art
04-09-2007, 07:20 AM
Hi stefan,

I will take a look at the site. I know an AMD64 x2 4600+ dual is not that bad. And it is not that old too. But it goes so fast. I have this system for 6 months by now.
So I must do with it for at least the next 1.4 year.

Anyway, thanks for your reply.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

RenatoT
04-10-2007, 12:15 PM
Hi all,

i think that the good workstation will be the core 2 duo quad.
My friend that help me on development have Core 2 Duo 3.4 Ghz render the same scene in 1 mins and 15 secs when i render same in 2 mins and 23 secs.. and my setup is 2.4 ghz X2.

We'll setup a standard C4d benchmark for it :)

Cheers
Renato

Rich-Art
04-10-2007, 12:18 PM
wow time to participate a lottery I guess. :)

Peace,
Rich_Art. ;)

LucentDreams
04-10-2007, 02:05 PM
Hi all,

i think that the good workstation will be the core 2 duo quad.
My friend that help me on development have Core 2 Duo 3.4 Ghz render the same scene in 1 mins and 15 secs when i render same in 2 mins and 23 secs.. and my setup is 2.4 ghz X2.

We'll setup a standard C4d benchmark for it :)

Cheers
Renato


Not sure what your scene is exactly, but for me any render in ten minutes is a good render ;)

rob rhodes
04-11-2007, 09:57 AM
Yeah actually would be good to see some speed comparisons of vray compared to c4d engine. I know a direct comparison is hard due to different lighting/materials and quality is subjective but at least we can get a rough idea on how much faster vray is at an internal gi rendering or something. Are we talking x2, x3 or even 4 times as fast?

lllab
04-11-2007, 03:36 PM
it very very much depends on szene and quality.


but i can only remember where i rendered some images in AR that needed 30+h per image on a 20 amdX2 cpu machines renderfarm.
i did upates for the same project some weeks ago and also tested it with vray and the similar image rendered about 1h on one macpro in higher quality than ar.

but i want to say overall vray is not only about speed but about quality! the much nicer light quality is what i love on vray. that it is also fast is fine of course too.

cheers
stefan

Rich-Art
04-11-2007, 06:49 PM
but i want to say overall vray is not only about speed but about quality! the much nicer light quality is what i love on vray.

Second that, I really love the nice light quality that you often see in a Vray render.

Peace,
Rich_Art. ;)

rob rhodes
04-12-2007, 02:16 PM
600 hour render (30+ hours on 20 machines!!) Down to one hour on a mac pro!! Now that is worth shouting about!! I also agree on the Vray quality - too many of my AR renders look a little plastic almost (something i think people have said before about AR).

lllab
04-12-2007, 02:40 PM
that was an extreme example, because of combination of gi, hdri, arealights, blurry metals and multilayered glas fassade-something AR hates;-)

normally speed difference will be nice but not so drastic, it really depends on your setup...

cheers
stefan

RenatoT
04-12-2007, 10:32 PM
Hi All,

In fact i've get camera cafe' scene.. just removed all materials then added a diffuse + specular + reflection material in c4d for all geometry and added the same in vray.

I tried to render the scene (2.000.000 polygons number) in the c4d and vray with similar setup and used 1/2 of resolution for cinema on Gi.

Vray rendered this image in 12 mins and cinema traced first 4 lines of red pixel after 44 mins.. then i stopped.

I think that these engine have different use and differents results.

For my motion graphics jobs C4d is perfect but i think that for photorealistics and complex scene vray it's really a great engine that need a bit of experience to be used and we are working to semplify the use on C4d.

EDIT:
Remember that i'm not Gi expert.. so maybe that i wrong setup in cinema 4d. :)

Cheers
Renato

noseman
04-13-2007, 08:34 AM
A question about speed. Does the use of motion blur and/or DOF add to rendertimes in Vray?

I do quite a lot of car animations, and use scene Motion blur in C4D. The minimum scene motion blur setting is 5 and if you want good results you should use 16. That automatically means that in order to get adequate motion blur you need at least 16 times more time.

ThePriest
04-13-2007, 08:41 AM
Well firstly there's 2 methods of using Motion Blur in VRay
There's the Physical camera method, using shutter speed
and then there's analytical motion blur that calculates in
3D space within a single render.

While Yes, both DOF and MotionBlur add significant time
to renders, maybe as much as 3x in some cases, it's
certainly much faster than the approach used by 'Scene Motion Blur'

This took just over 1 minute to render..(With glossy reflections)
http://www.priest3d.com/cgtalk/motionblur.jpg

The shutter speed technique gives much more control,
but with longer exposures, the render times go up.

tcastudios
04-13-2007, 08:56 AM
I do quite a lot of car animations, and use scene Motion blur in C4D. The minimum scene motion blur setting is 5 and if you want good results you should use 16. That automatically means that in order to get adequate motion blur you need at least 16 times more time.

Just a note on SMB in Cinema that might be good to check.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=312056&highlight=SceneMotionBlur

Cheers
Lennart

Simon Wicker
04-13-2007, 09:29 AM
That automatically means that in order to get adequate motion blur you need at least 16 times more time.

don't forget that cinema integrates the frames together so many effects can be turned down MUCH lower and still render smoothly - this goes for all sampling effects like stochastic mode gi (set between 2 - 4 samples), glossy reflection/refraction (min 2 max 4), AO (min 2 max 4), area shadows (min 2 max 4) turn off AA completely, render at 25 times SMB, etc.

the thing that cripples SMB is that it clamps values to 100% so any superbright areas are eliminated - so you can't do long exposures at night and get proper streaking lights for instance.

cheers, simon w.

ngrava
04-14-2007, 04:18 AM
More nerdy information and opinions that you probably didn't need to know:

I also wanted to point out that Vray uses a totally different approach to motion blur then Cinema's SMB. So SMB, as we all know, renders multiple images of the scene at different time slices and comps them back together. You almost always get some kind of strobing/stuttering in the end and that's the main drawback if this technique (that, and the fact that it has to render each frame up to 16 times!). With Vray it happens in a single pass. When a sample is taken for a particular pixel on the screen, the Motion Blur sampler sends out multiple rays into the scene. But, the object is assumed to be in a random position somewhere in between the previous and next frames. So, each sample is of the object at a different point in time. Then, all the different pixel color values are averaged together to make a single pixel. The nice thing is that it's adaptive meaning, it only uses more rays to sample time if it hits an object that's moving and depending on the amount of movement. If the object only moves a tiny amount then it only need a few rays, if the object moves a lot, then it's going to need more rays to fill in that space. The image above is not something that you'll see very often. Most of the time objects don't move that fast in the average character animation. Also, Vray defaults to a rather high number of pixel subdivisions for motion blur (well, in Max that is) so I usually wind up turning it down and also turning down the overall effect (the amount of time that the shutter stays open). In my experience, it usually adds about a 2X speed hit. which is much better then just about all the other renderers out there excluding RenderMan. Speaking of which, Vray is the only renderer that I have used that has as high a quality of motion blur as PRRenderMan. :D But, if you are used to REYES renderers which don't add more time to a render with blur, then yeah, Vray will seem slow. ;) If however, you are used to Mental Ray, finalRender and AR then you will love Vray. ;)

noseman
04-14-2007, 09:40 AM
I tend to turn off any AA when using SMB for animations. I cant afford the time overhead.
It works quite well. When I buy my new 8 core mac pro, I'll worry less :)

Thanks for the replies guys.

Jershaun
04-17-2007, 07:11 AM
Hi Mr. Laub and team



Recently I upgraded to C4D 10 but now I owe the post office, in South Africa, a huge amount for VAT and collection (which never happened when I bought C4D 9).



My question is, how will your product ship to clients and if posted, how will the invoice be made because this affects custom duties. Or will there be a download version which avoids all these unnecessary costs.



TIA, Jershaun

lllab
04-17-2007, 07:58 AM
Hi,
Vray is a downloadable product:-)
no post or extra costs fpr shipping needed...

you get an invoice by me, for all people outside eu this is without tax.

cheers
stefan

Jershaun
04-17-2007, 08:05 AM
Thanks, you've put my mind at rest.

bmd3d
04-17-2007, 09:33 AM
you get an invoice by me, for all people outside eu this is without tax.


i don't understand this, is the tax-system for software different ?
we never pay taxes on products between 2 european countries on invoices,
is this different for downloading software ?
if i buy (download) something from Dosch there's no tax on the invoice
(invoice with an VAT number on it)
Have to check but I think there was no tax on the Maxwell invoice

Another question :
is there already a Mac version of Vray commercially available (for maya or sketch up ?)
can't find anything on the Net about it, don't worry i'm stil going for the C4Dbridge.
Just wanna know (see) how it works/looks (abit more than the screenshot from Vlado) on a Mac.... Or will the Vray/c4d bridge be the first Vray for Mac OSX (big selling point if so !)


Thx for making this possble, keep up the good work and keep teasing us with info and picts, we love that ;-)

lllab
04-17-2007, 10:52 AM
with VAT number you dont have to pay tax of course in europe too if you are not in austria where i am, yes you are right.

about osx. yes there is a vrayosx core ready by vlado. i am sure it will be used for maya too at a later point. sketchup i dont know...it is the same as windows version.

i think we are the first to use the vrayosx version. so our version will be the only commercial available osx verison for next time.

cheers
stefan

bmd3d
04-17-2007, 11:42 AM
i think we are the first to use the vrayosx version. so our version will be the only commercial available osx verison for next time.


Cool !!!

thx for swift response

ThePriest
04-17-2007, 05:37 PM
Are you still months away from completion Llab?
Weeks, days, years?

Could you divulge just a little?
A glimpse of a hope?

Please, on behalf of 1000 excited people.. :scream:

ThirdEye
04-17-2007, 06:08 PM
Ditto, what ThePriest said.

kossoolli
04-17-2007, 06:12 PM
I still hope it is released on 20th of April this year... The thread is open since a year then...:beer:

lllab
04-17-2007, 10:08 PM
hi all,
release is defintiltly not far away.
also we added some features recently requested here-we hear to our customers...;-)

we are talkin about weeks not month...
best
stefan

ThePriest
04-17-2007, 10:22 PM
Joy... Thank you..

tonare
04-17-2007, 10:24 PM
Yea, that's awesome!

scanmead
04-17-2007, 11:34 PM
:bounce: :applause:

rsquires
04-18-2007, 12:27 AM
we are talkin about weeks not month...
best
stefan

I'm excited!!

rich

vbvcvj
04-18-2007, 12:57 AM
Please stop adding new features right now.
Releasing it ASAP is what most customers here needed.

williamsburroughs
04-18-2007, 01:21 AM
Yes....

Hope it's avaialble for OSX as well when you guys ship. :)

Keep up the good work. You will be rewarded greatly for all your hard work. ;)

vesalus
04-18-2007, 01:23 AM
great news indeed :)

Jershaun
04-18-2007, 08:23 AM
hi all,
release is defintiltly not far away.

Hope it's not according to Next Limit time. http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon10.gif


Sorry, couldn't help myself.:D Thanks for all the hard work vrayforc4d team.

Jershaun

lllab
04-18-2007, 09:05 AM
"Please stop adding new features right now."

...yes we try our best:-)
but the thing we just added is really worth it -Renato and Daniele did an amazing job!

but yes we will soon freeze it, and we are testing all parts since weeks.

vray is as i understood it built in a very clean plugin-architecture (each function is a plugin), where adding one feature doesnt hurt or break the others.

cheers
stefan

Other3DMaster
04-18-2007, 10:28 AM
Hope it's avaialble for OSX as well when you guys ship. :)

It would really be frustrating at this point if the OS X release was not at the same time.

Anyway, best to all the vrayforc4d team members. My wallet is open and ready.

ooo
04-18-2007, 11:19 AM
It would really be frustrating at this point if the OS X release was not at the same time.

Anyway, best to all the vrayforc4d team members. My wallet is open and ready.

Who said the OSX version will be delayed? Better yet, first release the OSX-version and let the PC-users sweat a bit ;)

No kidding, I'm following this thread from the start and are really excited that the final release is drawing near now. Well done boys and girls!

odo

Simon Wicker
04-18-2007, 12:13 PM
hi stefan,

as the release date approaches i think that it would be nice to provide concrete information about when the pre-order will run out so all those sitting on the fence will get a chance to fall off one way or the other. i know i'm still dithering about whether or not to get vray as i still feel slightly stiffed over maxwell. however knowing that the pre-order will run out in x days and then vray will be released y days later would probably induce me to get the check book out.

cheers, simon w.

lllab
04-18-2007, 12:20 PM
hi simon
i will post here some days before the preorder ends...
so all can decide themselves if to take a preorder or not.

cheers
stefan

laurent
04-18-2007, 03:46 PM
Gees! this thread is so long! I can't find info in it anymore.
dear lllab, you must have already answered those so excuse me:
if one gets a PC licence does the bucket renderer will use available Macs near by or will it be restricted to PCs? will there be typical scenes (outdoor / indoor) with tutorial for us to reverse engineer? if the renderer is identical in functions with the max versions, will we be able to use their tutorial materials?.

Thanks

lllab
04-18-2007, 05:03 PM
for dr i cant say this yet, i have to ask this. basicly yes i would say, but for dr we still have to work. for net mixed enviroment works for sure.

yes we will give testscenes, and also "readytogo" setups for gi, physical sun and sky, studiosetup, hdri dome, etc...
and we also give a fine number of materials like wood, stone, metals, glas, frosted glas, conrete, plastic, wax, skin, tiles, walls, carshaders, etc to learn how all kind of materials can be setup.

and yes you can use all kind of existing vray turorials as the functions and settings are the same and apply as well to c4d version as to maxversion.

cheers
stefan

Rich-Art
04-18-2007, 06:30 PM
Hi Stefan,

This all sounds real good to me.
two thumbs up for you, and your team as well of course.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

tonare
04-18-2007, 09:06 PM
and yes you can use all kind of existing vray turorials as the functions and settings are the same and apply as well to c4d version as to maxversion.

cheers
stefan

That roX! ;)

NicoAdri
04-18-2007, 10:52 PM
Just to get things clear.

I'm not sure if when we purchase VRayForC4D we are getting just the plugin or the plugin and the rendering engine.

Also, one thing that will be very useful for me at least is whether there will be a facility to network render. In my office there are loads of quad core (soon to be 8 core) MACs that could be harnessed into rendering duties. Would a single purchase also include the ability to render on multiple machines?

TIA

Adri

lllab
04-18-2007, 11:11 PM
yes the plugin is the renderengine integrated into c4d. there is all you need included.
and yes you will be able to render over 10 nodes per license.no cpu limit.

cheers
stefan

williamsburroughs
04-18-2007, 11:58 PM
no it is just everything in osx.
UB (thats is both PPC AND Intel)
the plugin, vray, just all you need...

cheers
stefan

ps.: to be absolute clear:

you work in c4d. you use brdf materals, lights cameras etc just as normal. you select vray as renderengine, adjust the Gi and render settings and press render...

then vray renders in your viewport, or in the pictureviewer, just as AR does. this is on mac or winxp/vista

very easy, very native....:-)


Searched the thread and found this.

So it appears OSX is destined for the same rlease date as the PC yes? :)

woot woot, can't wait!

laurent
04-19-2007, 07:36 AM
thanks lllab,
for the dr what has to be installed on the networked machines, a vray render node? a maxon net render node?
"but for dr we still have to work." do you mean that dr is one of the things still holding you up or that it will be for a futur release?

Robert Glotzbach
04-19-2007, 09:04 AM
Hello lllab,

Will it be possible after preorder to not immediately purchase after release, and if so how much time could be in between?

It would be nice to know, I don’t have always :D money available, but I know I will have over a certain period of time.

I will feel more free to preorder if possible.

Thanks, Robert

lllab
04-19-2007, 09:18 AM
@robert actually not.
´please write me a mail if it is just a "shorter" time after....i will see if possible.

for dr you will need a c4d folder plus plugins, but we still have to clear some things with it. it might come in the 1.1 update ca 6-8 weeks after 1.0. good news is ies-lights will be already in 1.0. the release will be in 3 steps 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 so that we dont have to wait for features that didnt make it in 1.0. each step will be about 6-8 weeks.i think/hope this is a good balance so that all dont have to wait too long.

cheers
stefan

choppir
04-19-2007, 12:12 PM
Hi llab,


I've sent you a few emails re: a pre-order.
Looks like you haven't received it.

So, can i please pre-order VRAY.

Have a good day!

choppir

osxman
04-19-2007, 02:28 PM
...for dr you will need a c4d folder plus plugins, but we still have to clear some things with it. it might come in the 1.1 update ca 6-8 weeks after 1.0. good news is ies-lights will be already in 1.0. the release will be in 3 steps 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 so that we dont have to wait for features that didnt make it in 1.0. each step will be about 6-8 weeks.i think/hope this is a good balance so that all dont have to wait too long.

cheers
stefan
That sounds very good :thumbsup:. I'd rather have an 90% feature-complete (and, of course, stable) VRay in a couple of weeks, waiting a while for the rest, than having to wait x months for a 100% complete one. A very good and reasonable decision.

I don't know if I missunderstood you but to me it sounds like you're saying that we'll need a complete installation of C4D on every DR rendernode. To me, that sounds strangely unnecessary. Why not have a rendernode-software receive vr-mesh data output by the VRay plugin on the master computer?

This brings me to another question. I might have asked this before but if so, I don't think you could give me an answer at the time. If you did answer it – I'm sorry for repeating myself (I have seen other signs of my brain and especially the memory parts of it degrading lately ;)).

Will it be possible to export a scene in vrmesh-format e.g. for transport and standalone rendering on a renderfarm that has VRay installed but not C4D (perhaps even of some other "standalone flavour" like Maya or Max)?

Another reason could be to simply lower the memory requirements, if needed, and speed things up.

And just one last thing:

:bounce::)
--
Stéphane

lllab
04-19-2007, 03:18 PM
hi choppir,
edit: i know see you wrote to my personal adress, not the vray adress.
please send it again to the adress below

send me you mail, full adress, full name to the preorder[at]vrayforc4d[dot]com adress.
lets try again- i watch it...


cheers
stefan

lllab
04-19-2007, 03:26 PM
thanks osx man.

yes you can export to vrmesh.
but i am not sure what kinds of standalones are or will be available...

with the dr, the vraydr is different to the fr dr.
also in max you have a maxinstallation on each node. of course one c4d license is only needed for the main machine. it is a bit like for net. i am no programmer but i think it is needed for plugins modules and other c4d functions etc.

cheers
stefan

osxman
04-19-2007, 03:40 PM
OK , I see :).

Can you then also render from an exported vrmesh-file directly with VRayforC4D (perhaps even without starting Cinema)?

BTW, thanks for the swift reply Stefan!

--
Stéphane

lllab
04-19-2007, 03:50 PM
vrayforc4d is part of cinema it cannot run without it...
only the vray standalone runs without, but has less functions(no c4d functions, no interface)

cheers
stefan

Ernest Burden
04-19-2007, 04:13 PM
vrayforc4d is part of cinema it cannot run without it...
only the vray standalone runs without, but has less functions(no c4d functions, no interface)

The concern, and I'm sure you've addressed it somewhere on page....?.. before, is whether we will be able to save a vray scene so that it could be rendered by vray stand-alone without C4D running at all. The obvious advantage is memory footprint.

Also I'm wondering about being able to have a vray scene to a Max user and have them able to pick up where we left off in C4Dvray. Being able to work more closely with the mass herd of Max people would be a real step forward for us.

osxman
04-19-2007, 04:24 PM
OK, so can you run the vrmesh file through the standalone, that is part of VRayforC4D – or isn't it included as a standalone (commandline) app? For an interface it would only need perhaps open, save and/or export (with some fileformats to choose from) commands to be useful (right?).

The OSX screenshots that Vlado once released showed an interface, didn't they?

This is definetely not a biggie and certainly does not have to be part of the 1.0 release (or even 1.1-1.2) but could be useful don't you think?

Wouldn't a "true" standalone version of VRay that opens and renders vrmesh files from any 3D-app that can export them be great. If necessery it could even be a separate product (with a hefty discount if you already own a VRay-license of some sort) – Perfect for renderfarm services and when you're out of RAM.

Just thinking that it shouldn't require that much programming since the standalone is already finished(?).

Hey look, I've even got Ernest on my side ;)!

Sorry for nagging, just ignore me, for now, if you've got more important things to do...

lllab
04-19-2007, 04:30 PM
hi earnest,

first thing might be possible, dont know yet. but with also 64bit vray i hope there are no memory problems. as we support many things vray doesnt have nativly you might loose all c4d shader support with standalone.

to open a c4d scene in max is not possible, sorry. those software packages are too different, have both unique parametric files etc...you might be able to open a vrmesh in future in max, but i cant confirm this yet nor do i know how this file will look like if imported. again you proably loose all c4d shader parameters.

you can of course setup similar materials in c4d and max(also they look different) and export the geometry to max and then swap there just all materials. in max this can be done with exchanging libaries in one ot two steps. the rendersetings can be setup identical on both.

cheers
stefan

lllab
04-19-2007, 04:47 PM
well in first step we planned a pure raw standalone connection. this would have been a very very limited thing in comparence.

Most users wished to have a integrated variant, with support of as many c4d functions as possible. (and it was hard work to do so...)

also vlado said we should make a real vrayversion like the max is and the maya version will be. so thats what we made -a real c4d-vray version.

the standalone variant would have had maybe some small memory advantages but MANY other limitations...
the standalone is also not yet availbale in public. as i have it here, it has no interface, no netrender, no dr, or anything realy to use for an average user. one has to programm an enviroment around it.

edit: the standalone has no interface-what you have seen is only the vrayframebuffer. that is the only visible thing in standalone. the vrayframebuffer is also available in c4d, it has nice realtime 32bit colorcorrection and curve editing functions for use after or while rendering.

cheers
stefan

machmirdenlukas
04-19-2007, 05:20 PM
Y E S S S S S . congrats!

osxman
04-19-2007, 09:41 PM
well in first step we planned a pure raw standalone connection. this would have been a very very limited thing in comparence.

Most users wished to have a integrated variant, with support of as many c4d functions as possible. (and it was hard work to do so...)

also vlado said we should make a real vrayversion like the max is and the maya version will be. so thats what we made -a real c4d-vray version.

the standalone variant would have had maybe some small memory advantages but MANY other limitations...
the standalone is also not yet availbale in public. as i have it here, it has no interface, no netrender, no dr, or anything realy to use for an average user. one has to programm an enviroment around it.
If those were your choices then you have definitely chosen the right path!

As for the hard work – what you are doing is probably going to be remembered as one of the greatest breakthroughs in C4D's history. It should significantly boost Cinema's userbase like nothing else or at least very few things before it.
edit: the standalone has no interface-what you have seen is only the vrayframebuffer. that is the only visible thing in standalone. the vrayframebuffer is also available in c4d, it has nice realtime 32bit colorcorrection and curve editing functions for use after or while rendering.

cheers
stefan
What I suggested would "only" need the framebuffer, an open command (for vrmesh) and save/write capabilities for the result (which is perhaps already in the vrayframebuffer?) and DR (which seems to be the tricky part). Since this would be more of an addition to the application-specific VRay-packages, making it a reality would probably be more of a thing for Vlado/Chaos. I just think it's a way to enhance the usability of an already great product. Perhaps for VRay 1.6?

Also – part of my suggestion was based on the belief that all the C4D-specific "things" were translated to something that was "VRay-native" so that a vrmesh-file would be renderable in any standalone-based VRay package (like VRay for Maya etc.). What you are saying sounds like you are you adding C4D-specific functions to the VRay standalone-version given to you by Vlado and not only building a bridge(?). Or is Vray asking C4D for information (like for C4D-shaders) during the rendering?

Just remember – I'm not complaining. I just stumbled into "a brainstorm" – it'll probably pass after a good nights sleep ;).

Good night,
Stéphane

lllab
04-19-2007, 10:07 PM
thanks stephane,
please dont forget Renato and Daniele they do the actual coding-this is real hard work!

regarding the vray- we are not using the standalone, but the full vraysdk (as maya p.e.).
also maya is not standalone.

beside that different base systems make different things possible. so will the maya version be different to the maxversion and the c4d version different to maya etc...overall if you know one you can use the others.
c4d makes some things more difficult and others more easy. we have one brdf feature that is not available yet in max in this way for example...;-) and we have the procedual power of the c4d (bhodinut) shaders ...

of course vray will go its evolution and there will be improvements as much as we can with each step:-) so keep your suggestions, we will here all wishes, and also vlado is a very helpful person and will surely be open to good improvmnets on vray-core side.

this is just the start...
cheers
stefan

osxman
04-19-2007, 10:13 PM
thanks stephane,
please dont forget Renato and Daniele they do the actual coding-this is real hard work...
Of course not :)!

...this is just the start...
Amen!

Jershaun
04-20-2007, 07:25 AM
Hi Mr. Laub

I'm not sure how far you're with the manual but I was hoping you could make the manual as simple as possible something like a "Vray for Dummies" manual. With explanations about everything in layman's language. Things that might seem simple to you might not be to others for example DR (I know, I'm stupid. Don't shout at me).

I'm not as gifted as other C4D users so stuff like that don't come easy to me so if it's not too late I'd like to request a very informative manual for dummies.

Thanks, Jershaun

lllab
04-20-2007, 08:17 AM
we try to make it as simple as possible.

you also get materials to learn how to setup metal, glas, plastic, wood, silk, velvet, stone, displacment, alphamaps, carshaders,..., our material is very powerfull, with the examples you will see how good materials can be easily made( or just transform our preset at beginning)

you will also get example scenes for GI, physical sky &cam, dof mblur etc.

...and if all that not helps there is the vrayforc4d forum where we will be present to help as good we can.

i understand that a new renderengine is not easy for everyone, and we try to make it as simple for all users:-)

cheers
stefan

Jershaun
04-20-2007, 08:37 AM
Thanks You. Much appreciated. :thumbsup:

Jershaun

kossoolli
04-20-2007, 10:47 AM
Mmh, I am still waiting for the surprise of the day...

leed
04-20-2007, 11:02 AM
You mention on the pre order page that you will get a special code once pre ordered.

I have pre ordered but do not have a special code. Just an e mail from you. have they been issued?

Yours excitedly.... waiting patiently....

Lee

lllab
04-20-2007, 12:27 PM
"Mmh, I am still waiting for the surprise of the day..."

hmmm? i said i wont takes moths but nobody said something of today.-sorry.

thats maybe for all who preordered, we had to change the automatic system due to massive spam, so all who preordered got a mail from me and we saved here all by hand....the confirmation email is enough- we have all data stored here too.

cheers
stefan

kossoolli
04-20-2007, 12:39 PM
I just thought it will be released today...


Anyway, I think I can wait some weeks...:scream:
No, I can't.

fretshredder
04-20-2007, 01:44 PM
Man this is exciting! Just so I understand....the preorder price is 670 EUROS (which is currently ~910.40 USD (ouch, the dollar sucks right now))? With that we get the bridge and the VRay renderer together as a plugin to be integrated into our core C4d installations?

Can I write the help docs, and get a discount or something? (only half joking) :-)

Cheers!

lllab
04-20-2007, 01:56 PM
you get one plugin.
this plugin has all you need for vray in it....

cheers
stefan

Stain777
04-20-2007, 02:18 PM
Hi Mr. Laub

I'm not sure how far you're with the manual but I was hoping you could make the manual as simple as possible something like a "Vray for Dummies" manual. With explanations about everything in layman's language. Things that might seem simple to you might not be to others for example DR (I know, I'm stupid. Don't shout at me).

I'm not as gifted as other C4D users so stuff like that don't come easy to me so if it's not too late I'd like to request a very informative manual for dummies.

Thanks, Jershaun

Actually Jershuan the docs at the ChaosGroup site are very in depth. There's a very good forum there that's already deep into any issues that you may need to address. From DR and caustic solutions, to squeezing every bit of speed out of your machine. They have forum themes such as: Vray Problems, Render theory, tips and tutorials, and image uploads. It's a very, very active site where you can get new information daily, almost hourly. Any questions you may have will probably get a pretty quick answer there.

Besides all of that, they have a very good set of online docs that address each section of the render dialog, along with supporting tutorials and scene files that help to understand what's going on under the hood. Vray really demands that you understand why your using certains settings in order to tweak for the best quality, and shortest render times.

Vlado even has a "Universal setting" laid out to get you going. It's pretty good overall and will get you most of the way there for any given scene, but it's a bit slow as it's a "belt and suspenders" kind of approach.

I can't wait for the C4D version, there are things about Max that drive me nuts. ;)

lllab
04-20-2007, 04:07 PM
some quite nice vray-made archviz interiors i saw on evermotion before:

http://evermotion.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=59154

the mw like noise is because he lowered the normal qmc settings (he made this on a very old pc...)
cheers
stefan

paulselhi
04-21-2007, 06:49 PM
, but it's a bit slow as it's a "belt and suspenders" kind of approach.

;)

Did you mean "belt and braces" or maybe not.. m'laud :D

Jershaun
04-23-2007, 07:28 AM
Thanks Stain777. I'll keep this in mind.

Jershaun

noseman
04-23-2007, 12:18 PM
Something for speculation.

I am a proud owner of a dual G5 1.8 Mac and thinking of upgrading to a 8 core Mac Pro quite soon.
Vray for C4D is on the top of the list of purchases.
It would be nice if anybody with sufficient experience can speculate as to whether this 8 core monster would be an adequate rendering station compared to 3 or 4 dual proc PCs (or mac minis) to be used with Vray. I am planning to do a lot of animations with Dof, Moblur and GI (cars and other products).
Having read some initial speed tests about the octa core Mac at http://barefeats.com/ I am getting a bit concerned as to how efficient this computer is compared to some alternatives solutions that will cost as much (a basic Mac Pro 2xQuad core with 8GB RAM costs just under 4,000 pounds whereas a mac mini costs 840 pounds with 2 GB ram and 160GB HD, so 4x840=3,360 pounds).
I know that network traffic can slow things down when data comes and goes, but a gigabit ethernet switch can take care of that quite efficiently.

What is your opinion as to the ideal Vray rendering companion? Mac Pro 8core, or Mac mini (or other PC) renderfarm?

Thanks

rob rhodes
04-23-2007, 12:19 PM
those last vray images really show how good Vray is - thanks for that Illab. It does have a real quality of light and I really like the grain generated in those images - just the right amount. I have put my eggs in the Fryrender basket at the moment so waiting to see how that turns out but Vray is deffinately top of the software list now! I think a hardware upgrade is above that though and then actually starting a business!! Would still appreciate some rendertime comparisons just to get an idea of how fast it is though!

EDIT: +1 on Nosemans questions.

lllab
04-23-2007, 02:33 PM
thanks all:-)

noseman i can teall you in a few days.

my octomac is on its way to test vray;-) as far as it looks it might be the best machine for vray you can get at the moment....

cheers
stefan

noseman
04-23-2007, 03:44 PM
Thank you very much Stefan. I'll be on the watch...

Thanks

noseman
04-23-2007, 03:45 PM
double post... sorry

castroman
04-25-2007, 07:17 AM
I came across this page concerning Arch viz over at cgarchitect, it has tips and tricks concerning viz in vray and also other arch viz related things.

http://www.cgarchitect.com/upclose/VI/default.asp

I havent gone through it all, a lot of information, mostly Max related but still worth a look.

NicoAdri
04-25-2007, 12:22 PM
today?

Stefan?

osxman
04-25-2007, 12:30 PM
License question:

I'm still on C4D 9.6 and while I might upgrade to R10, I'm likely to wait for 10.5 as I'm saving the money for VRay. I'm guessing that when buying VRay "now" and tying it to my 9.6 license I'll need a new serial number for it (VRay) if/when I upgrade to R10/10.5. Will there be a fee and if so, do you have any idea how much?

Will future compability upgrades (no new features), if needed (like for R10.5 or R11) be free?

Any other news of progress are – as always (no pressure) – welcome ;).

Regards,
Stéphane

lllab
04-25-2007, 02:19 PM
no not today and not the next days, its still more weeks...sorry:-)

no we will not charge for giving you a new key number...

compatibility updates for c4d part will depend on diffculty, but i cannot imagine that they will cost much, mostly i guess they will be easy and be free too.


cheers
stefan

osxman
04-25-2007, 03:53 PM
Apart from the first paragraph ;) that was an excellent answer :) .

Thanks!
Stéphane

ThePriest
04-26-2007, 06:27 AM
So many questions, sorry to add to the mayhem!

Have you guys run into any high polygon limitations?
I've seen VRayProxy is useful for these problems, but I've
yet to run any tests.

If so, what has been your limit on a 32bit machine?

I've personally pushed 3million through Max/VRay
and that wasn't without endless crashes before I got
anything resembling a result.

Thanks

lllab
04-26-2007, 10:49 AM
well i did render a archviz scene of frankfurt with some skyscrapers in it, which has around 2 million polies, that was very nice & fast. made also a gi-testanimation with it ,with physical sky and cam, rendered extremly fast on a quad macpro. (was some month ago with older beta-version).
bigger scenes i have not tested yet. dont know higher scenes now, but will test

but we will also trying to add vrayproxy (instancing) in 1.1 - this will be specially good for mograph things:-).

cheers
stefan

Garin
04-26-2007, 01:03 PM
Tell me please, if there will demo-version or we'll get only final product? When can we get it & how much will it be cost ???

castroman
04-30-2007, 09:33 AM
@Garin

I believe it has been said many times, but this thread has become so big, so unless you have been following this thread since it started, you may be a little lost.

The price is 799.- € excl. Tax but if you preorder now you can get a special preorder price of 670.-€

They have said that it will be around in a matter of weeks. As for a demo, I doubt that this will be out until they have released the final product. Don't know if a demo will be released at all, but seeing as vray has had a demo for max I find it very likely, but that is not for me to say. Illab?

You can find more info here: http://www.vrayforc4d.com/start.html

ngrava
04-30-2007, 08:56 PM
So many questions, sorry to add to the mayhem!

Have you guys run into any high polygon limitations?
I've seen VRayProxy is useful for these problems, but I've
yet to run any tests.

If so, what has been your limit on a 32bit machine?

I've personally pushed 3million through Max/VRay
and that wasn't without endless crashes before I got
anything resembling a result.

Thanks

Hey Priest,

Since Vray does it's own memory management separate from the host, you should see exactly the same results from the VrayBridge as you see within Max.

v-empire
05-04-2007, 06:17 AM
Hi,
since I have to start a new project by the end of next week,
one last question:

Days or weeks to go?

Thanks
Holger

brammelo
05-04-2007, 07:59 AM
Well, both are true: 4 days is still half a week ;-)

(no, I don't have inside info, I'm just kidding around)

lllab
05-04-2007, 04:50 PM
hi all,
we work hard on it, but it is not in next days...

just got my new 8x macpro--man thats fast!
for easy scenes i get almost realtime gi preview in the interactive renderer in vray:-)
hehe

nice weekend
cheers
stefan

williamsburroughs
05-04-2007, 05:06 PM
hi all,
we work hard on it, but it is not in next days...

just got my new 8x macpro--man thats fast!
for easy scenes i get almost realtime gi preview in the interactive renderer in vray:-)
hehe

nice weekend
cheers
stefan


You big tease!

Now if we could just get our machines to sync up over the net for "REAL" power. :P

Get back to work and stop playing. :p

Keep up the great work guys!

osxman
05-04-2007, 05:44 PM
Your teasing is killing us Stefan! :argh:

ThePriest
05-04-2007, 05:59 PM
You'll support 9.6 won't you? Not just 10 I hope, I haven't made the transition.

lllab
05-04-2007, 06:07 PM
9.6+...
cu
st.

STRAT
05-04-2007, 06:22 PM
crikey, i'm still on 9.5!!!

lllab
05-04-2007, 06:32 PM
any reason you dont did the free upgrade to 9.6?
cheers
stefan

STRAT
05-05-2007, 12:07 PM
no need to. i'm only in it for the renderer.

but then, with the release of Vray we'll probably upgrade to 10.

brammelo
05-05-2007, 08:56 PM
While we are on the topic of speed: I got a photograph from a friend, which I found pretty amazing. I won't tell who it is, nor will I tell where the computers are located, but you have to admit this is one blast - and they're all octo cores :) And yes, he is using it for C4D.

kromekat
05-05-2007, 10:22 PM
While we are on the topic of speed: I got a photograph from a friend, which I found pretty amazing. I won't tell who it is, nor will I tell where the computers are located, but you have to admit this is one blast - and they're all octo cores :) And yes, he is using it for C4D.

Now that's just obscene! :scream::thumbsup:

lllab
05-06-2007, 12:14 AM
nice chair he has;-)
guess he will have real-realtime rendering with vray with those setup:-8

cheers
stefan

ThePriest
05-06-2007, 02:01 AM
Dude needs a desk, unless those are just for rendering.

RenatoT
05-08-2007, 01:34 AM
Hi all,

Today, vray render on cinema is fully supporting most AR advanced Shaders Effects.
Only the proximal and spectral shaders are not working... yet.

Cheers
Renato

ThePriest
05-08-2007, 01:56 AM
So how does a complex multi layered object with Fusion look?
Does VRay like Maxwell write the procedural texture to disc upon
calculation, or is it intergrated like with AR?

RenatoT
05-08-2007, 02:17 AM
Hello,

In this vray implementation you can use all shaders included layer and fusion.
You can drag and drop on vray material the entire shaders tree of cinema... or use the material converter that will do this for you with an interpretation of all c4d material parameters.

Bake the textures is not working now because the bake texture look for standard c4d channels.

So is integrated like in Ar.

Cheers
Renato

sketchbook
05-08-2007, 03:13 AM
great news.

helluvapixel
05-08-2007, 07:46 AM
Hello,

In this vray implementation you can use all shaders included layer and fusion.

Does this include the BhodiNUT Danel, Nukei and other shaders?

RenatoT
05-08-2007, 08:13 AM
Hi Jclark073,

i prefer to call these "shaders" materials.. this would sound like to use c4d rendering engine through vray.

Is not planned because you can do these things with Vray.

Cheers
Renato

Rich-Art
05-08-2007, 08:14 AM
Sounds cool to me. :)
Great job Renato.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

robodesign
05-08-2007, 08:46 AM
Hello!
I've been following this thread for a looong time, since it was having only 10 pages ;). But now, I have a question of my own...

I would like to be curious if and how, does it handle... let's say 3 millions of polygons? I mean, I created scenes with such a high amount of polys in C4D and AR renders them OK, slow, but sure, even if the whole scene got about thousands of different objects. It doesn't crash. I've read here on CGTalk that fr2 starts crashing with over 1,5 millions of polygons. I've been toying with Maxwell demo to see how it handles the situation... and, the plugin causes a crash of C4D by not being able to transfer the data to M~R. So, the final ideea is, v-ray will have these issues?

I would be curious if you guys have done any tests in this particular circumstance.

rob rhodes
05-08-2007, 09:05 AM
So is VrayforC4D going to be the most tightly intergrated version of Vray ever? I've not used the max version but it seems like we will have pretty much everything we know and love about C4D but with the power of Vray - very exciting. I take it this is an even tighter integration than even you were hoping for at the beginning?

Will we be able to use the c4D compositioning tag or does vray have its own more advanced one?

RenatoT
05-08-2007, 09:30 AM
Hi All,

we are working to use all features of c4d.
The compositing tag is implemented for all vray supported features.
About how is integrated.. i don't know max integration but here i think that in c4d is very deep :)

I've made some test to get Hair post rendering integrated in vray and seem to be working.
After the first release i'll work to implement it with the Maxon help.. and i hope that they will not be busy like in these months.

robodesign:

i've made a test for you. No 3GB switch.
http://www.c4dportal.com/~renatot/VrayTest/3MillionsPoly.mov (http://www.c4dportal.com/%7Erenatot/VrayTest/3MillionsPoly.mov)

cheers
renato

lllab
05-08-2007, 10:07 AM
hehe so its out the box;-)

ok a view things here:

1) vrayforc4d is the most stable release. renato said i shall try to crash it. i tired now for 4 days...and guess what i didnt manage! no single crash even if i want to:-)

2) the c4d shader support is unbelievable for me. renato and Daniele did en excellent job here.
it is easier to say which shader do not work: proximal, old 3d bhodinut(you can do that better in vraybrdf), backlight/chanlum ( again you do this MUCH better in brdf), splineshader.

all others work:

>> lumas (yes is does:-)
>> all noisetypes 2d and 3d
>> layershader
>> fusion
>> distorter
>> projector!
>> all Surface shaders
>> filter
>> colorizer
>> fresnel
>> falloff
>> 2d and 3d gardients
>> AO
>> normal
>> 3rd party enhenced c4d shaders ( they are great- you miss something if you dont have them)
>> most other 3rd parts shaders
.
.
.

all these shaders work without hacks, they just work as you like them in c4d, directly in vray brdf material.
i tried wierdest combinations of multilayered-fusion-projector-distortion shaders...
they just work- they are fully integrated, all animatable:-)


3) you can now stack material!

we heard you- material stacking works now with as many vraybrdf materials you want!
you can mix them via textures, alpha, bitmaps, shaders, gradients, slider etc....hehe, this i love very much:-)

4) our vray brdf is a very powerfull materialeditor, it has functions you know from c4d and fuctions from the highend engine vray like real anisoropic, real translucency, volume transparency ( so in depth it get less tranparent, like thick glas, milk, dirty water , wineetc..). the bump is of extrem high quality, you have also great displacment for gras, bucxhes, carpets etc..., you have 3 layers of specular like we love from 3d bhodinut, great for satin, carpaint, velvet, silk, ...

5) i will give you material-presets for all kind of materials, so you will learn the materialeditor fast:-)

6) you have physical camera, and physical sky and sunsystem for beatifull skies. this comes with realworld camera distortion, f-stop, dof, iso, shutter speed. this also easily controls the illumination of the whoile scene

7) you have high quality tonemapping controls in vray of all kinds, again you will get some cool presets for that

8) you have the fastest AA in extreme quality. vray has superb antialiasing, you can use 1x-50x and still render in reasonable time.

...ok enough teasing for today....
more info to come;-)

cheers
stefan

Rich-Art
05-08-2007, 10:10 AM
That's all there is??
:thumbsup: Wow this sounds like little angels singing in my ears.
Great job guys.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

lllab
05-08-2007, 10:11 AM
"I take it this is an even tighter integration than even you were hoping for at the beginning?"

..yes indeed! much more we ever imagined ourselves:-)
cheers
stefan

RenatoT
05-08-2007, 10:16 AM
Hi Stefan,

you have older release.. i'm waiting you.

Backlight seem to be working, subsurface scattering, spline too.
The effects shaders that are not working are Proximal and Rain (i must try).

Cheers
Renato

lllab
05-08-2007, 10:19 AM
...man you are fast!
ok so those work too:-)
cheers
stefan

kossoolli
05-08-2007, 10:59 AM
No words! Absolutely stunningwork, I can't wait to get my hands on it.

lllab
05-08-2007, 11:01 AM
just tested c4d sss, rendered in 2 sek with full gi...and it interacts with gi correct:-)

cheers
stefan

castroman
05-08-2007, 11:05 AM
come on, not fair, post some images for us hungry souls

RenatoT
05-08-2007, 11:12 AM
... 2 secs.. on 8 core mac.. :)

My 3millionspoly test was done on 2.45 ghz X2 A64.

I think that the 64bit environment will be good to render millions polys without the Xp 32 limit.

Cheers
Renato

kossoolli
05-08-2007, 11:14 AM
Yeah, some pictures woulkd be nice. But I said that a few times now, didn't I?

Shademaster
05-08-2007, 11:24 AM
Aargh! This is too good to be true! Great work everyone!

robodesign
05-08-2007, 11:28 AM
Ok, thanks Renato for the test. It seems that it will work just fine. Congrats on making all the C4D shaders work and for the ubber-tight integration.

Any release date? ;) Sorry to ask, hehe.

Jake-L
05-08-2007, 11:30 AM
I feel faint.....! A mindblowing effort from you guys.....congratulations!

Searched the thread, but I just wanted to check up upon a couple of major shortcomings of other renderers. Does VrayC4D's PSD support include layersets..and is the layer mask supported in C4D layer shader?

Cheers

/J.

Other3DMaster
05-08-2007, 11:44 AM
Man, I am excited.

Sorry, if I missed this somewhere, but I saw mention on the chaosgroup site of a toon effect. I didn't know if this was refering to vray for max's toon system, or is there a toon shader system in vray itself?

Anyway, thanks to all for this hard work.

lllab
05-08-2007, 12:03 PM
jake, yes all layershader aspects are supported,reagarding psd file i cant say yet in detail.

regarding toon. at least at the moment vrayforc4d has no tooneffect. sketch and toon is far superior for this. we strongly recommend S&T for such things.

cheers
stefan

NicoAdri
05-08-2007, 01:03 PM
when?

it's getting almost annoying monitoring this thread every day...

RenatoT
05-08-2007, 01:22 PM
NicoAdri:

when the Vray Osx will be released by ChaosGroup. :)

cheers
Renato

vbvcvj
05-08-2007, 01:31 PM
when?

it's getting almost annoying monitoring this thread every day...

Same feeling here. And again, when ?

MrBraun
05-08-2007, 01:31 PM
Really impressive work here!! My compliments to the developer Team: Renato and Daniele! ;)
Tnx Stefan, also, for the nice preview! :)

RenatoT
05-08-2007, 01:37 PM
Another little pill.

http://www.c4dportal.com/%7Erenatot/VrayTest/SomeVrayTest.mov

Cheers
Renato

NicoAdri
05-08-2007, 01:41 PM
I thought we were told that VRay for OS X is already done...

That not the case?

belushy
05-08-2007, 01:50 PM
Thanks renato seems there has a lot happend since my last visit to stefan.
Looks like perfect integration.

all thumbs up
cheers belushy

fluffouille
05-08-2007, 01:58 PM
Geez, you did a hell of a job, guys!

fretshredder
05-08-2007, 02:02 PM
Geez, you did a hell of a job, guys!

quoted for COMPLETE agreement. You all have done and continue to do a stellar KICK-ASS job with this. I'd love to preorder immediately but it's a bit outside my affordability range right now (baby on the way). Hopefully I'll be able to get onboard though, this is too good to pass up knowing the quality work Renato does.

lllab
05-08-2007, 02:04 PM
nico, it is running, but the sdk needs to be final updated to be equal the winversion...
cheers
stefan

Katachi
05-08-2007, 02:07 PM
Multo bene Renato & Daniele. Good work for the community. :thumbsup:

Rich-Art
05-08-2007, 02:08 PM
Thanks for the videos Renato. Nice to see Vray in action in the C4D shell.

Great stuff.......

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

LucentDreams
05-08-2007, 02:11 PM
nice feature list, but what about motionblur. Sadly the whole thing is useless to me without motionblur.

lllab
05-08-2007, 02:16 PM
yes motion blur will be in too...(that feature list was just a small excerp;-)
cheers
stefan

machmirdenlukas
05-08-2007, 02:31 PM
awesome! perfect! subbidubbi!
at last i was right to stay with c4d and not to switch to max because of vray.
a happy day. thank´s folks
cheers m

marshalartist
05-08-2007, 02:34 PM
What do you get for one license? how many machines/processors can you render on?
Does it support Bucket Rendering? Sorry if all this has been covered but there is rather a lot to search through.

lllab
05-08-2007, 02:42 PM
you get:

:::the vrayfor c4d renderengine
:::good for unlimited cpus per workstation
:::good for unlimited workstations with unlimited cpus for c4d-net ( you need a net license of course too from c4d)
::: DR (in 1.0 or maybe 1.1) for 10 pcs, with no limit of cpus per pc, this could be 10 octo macpros par example making an dr up of 80 cpus!!!

cheers
stefan

marshalartist
05-08-2007, 02:51 PM
Wow that sounds good!
could I part exchange my rusty old FR2 :)

castroman
05-08-2007, 02:58 PM
this is a major stepstone for cinema 4d, I think we will see a lot of good stuff come out of this vray connection. hopefully people will stop whining about what 3d studio max has for a little while :)

FredSpeaks
05-08-2007, 03:01 PM
I want, I want! I need, I need! Great job!:thumbsup:

LucentDreams
05-08-2007, 03:07 PM
good to hear, is there a simple bal motion test or even a still we can see with motionblur? theres been very little discussion of it, granted I think many in this thread are also more into archviz type stuff, but this is where my concern is. and it took cebas two releases to get something I just wanna make sure vray will have it reliably.

ooo
05-08-2007, 03:11 PM
You guys rock! Amazing job!

:beer:

I love you all!

odo

lllab
05-08-2007, 03:32 PM
lucent
just search for vray motionblur on net, there are millions of example of it.
vray motionblur is said to be of very high quality.

our motion blur is exact the same as the maxvray- so you can judge the qualiyt by maxexamples. i cant show you in c4d as we havent connected in yet. vlado makes an sdk update for that (we all work parallel)

before release we will show of course examples made in c4d:-)
it is very easy, just animate, adjuts camera setting render....

cheers
stefan

v-empire
05-08-2007, 03:44 PM
"DR (in 1.0 or maybe 1.1) for 10 pcs, with no limit of cpus per pc"

Hi,
what´s the difference between DR and the c4d Netrendering

i preordered 2 licences because I thought the 10 machines limit was valid for any netrendering?

Thanks
Holger

lllab
05-08-2007, 03:49 PM
netrendering is like in c4d.

dr split up one image via network rendering in buckets(little squares)-this is very fast for highrez images.

cheers
stefan

NicoAdri
05-08-2007, 04:09 PM
OS X.

So if the SDK isn't done does that mean that we MAC users are going to have to wait longer than the PC community?

Looks excellent btw.

Cheers

Adri

lllab
05-08-2007, 04:13 PM
both sdks are still changing win and mac. we "just" exchange them....
vlado gives us updates all the time.

cheers
stefan

rob rhodes
05-08-2007, 04:28 PM
Is it dongle activated or serial tied? sorry if its been asked before!!

Awesome tests by the way, really nice to see it in action. Looking fast!!!

AdamT
05-08-2007, 04:39 PM
Amazing stuff! My hat's off to the development team!

lllab
05-08-2007, 04:49 PM
thanks Adam:-)
Renato and Daniele did excellent programming, and of course vlado is a master.
hope you will like it.

rob, no our version needs no dongle, just serials.

cheers
stefan

ernia
05-08-2007, 04:53 PM
Looks amazing, guys. Can't wait for the release. Good job!

Just checking: are all transparencies and DOF combinations supported, too?

ernia

williamsburroughs
05-08-2007, 05:00 PM
I am jumping up and down over here. I am jumping up and down over here!

http://www.fmft.net/Kool-AidMan.jpg

lllab
05-08-2007, 05:22 PM
ernia, yes vray does dof physical correct...

williamsburroughs, you will love that on your octo;-)


cheers
stefan

ThePriest
05-08-2007, 05:25 PM
That video has made my day.
The ease of use of Cinema 4D with VRay built in,
nothing comes close to that experience.

LucentDreams
05-08-2007, 05:42 PM
lucent
just search for vray motionblur on net, there are millions of example of it.
vray motionblur is said to be of very high quality.

our motion blur is exact the same as the maxvray- so you can judge the qualiyt by maxexamples. i cant show you in c4d as we havent connected in yet. vlado makes an sdk update for that (we all work parallel)

before release we will show of course examples made in c4d:-)
it is very easy, just animate, adjuts camera setting render....

cheers
stefan

Thats more of the answer I was looking for, its planned, its not there yet. I don't like hearing something is possible till its actually possible. I'm more than aware of what vray is capable of, what I'm concerned with is vray for c4d. I know what final render is capable of, but doesn't mean all connections are the same, and the first release of fr, motionblur didn't work properly. I've been a part of enough different software developments to know whats planned and whats there are two very different things.

ernia
05-08-2007, 05:45 PM
PREORDERED!

Awesome.

ernia

Robert Glotzbach
05-08-2007, 05:51 PM
This is all to beautifull, I also got excited and could not resist to Preorder.

Poor children,......... no new shoes for them,:blush: (kidding ofcourse)..

Robert

ooo
05-08-2007, 05:53 PM
Sorry but I have to say it again: you guys are amazing!
You had the guts to start this project, took all the time that was necessary and are about to deliver an awesome product.

http://www.odeontwerp.nl/images/applause.gif

scanmead
05-08-2007, 05:54 PM
oh man oh man oh man oh man... C4D interface with VRay light-handling and render! One could literally rule the universe! (Did you see those buckets go?!!)

I'd tell you how good this looks, but I'm afraid you'd raise the price! Yes! I admit it! I dream about VRay.. heh..

Rich-Art
05-08-2007, 06:00 PM
I can feel the tension in this thread... Everybody is so excited. :bounce:

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

lllab
05-08-2007, 06:02 PM
thanks all;-),

-lucent-its easy-then justs wait.

vray is different built than FR. all renderaspects already exist- and they work!
it is not planned it is there. the code is already made and proved by many many users.

so if it works it works, no matter if we have connected it yet or not. so if you really want to see how it works now, you can look for examples as i suggested. if you dont believe me, you can wait for 1.0 release;-)

cheers
stefan

VICCHEN
05-08-2007, 06:06 PM
no more word..... just give me the Vray for C4D!:bounce:


you are the best!

sketchbook
05-08-2007, 06:13 PM
send me the beta and let me try and crash vray.

20,000 SF department store full of merchandise is ready for testing. blurry floor, shiny metal, high poly everything. 3 million polys sounds like childs play.

has ernest b who does the big cruise ship renderings tested vray? that would be a good test.

lllab
05-08-2007, 06:23 PM
i did render the new ezb highrize in frankfurth with half the city in vray. i think it was also around 3mio polys. renderer very fine and fast. the original file was a 250mb rhino file...

cheers
stefan

Katachi
05-08-2007, 06:40 PM
Kai, this is a bridge, so it´s a matter of passing the parameters & data to the renderer and the renderer will do the job the same it does for any other bridge, no matter which app is connected to the bridge. Something like the old Shave for C4D bridge, if Shave does it, it will do it for all apps the same. It´s a matter of support, not of algorithm. :)

This is good because whenever there is something new and the API offers access, it can be fastly integrated into the bridge and users can get fast support of new functions. Downside is, if the API doesn´t evolve the bridge won´t either, but Vlado is, as said, a pretty genius guy from what I have seen from his work, so I don´t see much problems there.

tntx
05-08-2007, 06:50 PM
this is a BIG REVOLUTION!!

such amazing work guys

♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥


wonderfull logo for vc4d.

LucentDreams
05-08-2007, 06:54 PM
as is the final render a bridge, and it passed information wrong as it worked fine with max, and it is partially an issue with the translator as it has to send the motiondata, which is typically wrong bad in cinema. Both FR and Cineman have had issues with this so for anyone to think it will be a simple line of code and its done isn't aware either. I may not be a coder and know whats required coding wise, but I do know from expereince as a user that I've seen two very talented programmers do it wrong after a few tries.

Having dealt with two render bridges already from cinema both with littered history of troubles with motion data translation for motionblur, I wanted to make sure it worked, not promises that it will. yes I will wait, just asked and after a clarified response, I know its not possible yet and to continue to wait and observe the progress.

lllab
05-08-2007, 06:57 PM
yes exactly samir:-)

vlado is getting us almost weekly new sdks, he is very nice, and i think he never sleeps...
also he makes all sdk also for the maya version, so there is deep interest to make all vray accessable to sdk,

also vray is made of seperate kind of "plugin-elements". so it sometimes did take just few hours to add new functions, and no change of existing code has to be made. i am no programmer, but it looks to be made extremly efficient and intelligent.

cheers
stefan

edit: no prob kai, you can test it when we release...

bluecanvas
05-08-2007, 10:23 PM
Another little pill.

http://www.c4dportal.com/%7Erenatot/VrayTest/SomeVrayTest.mov


Impressive stuff. Will there be a demo that works with the demo version of C4D? I'd really like to test this C4D/Vray combo.:)

Stain777
05-09-2007, 05:17 AM
You guys have done a fantastic job!!!

I'm using Vray for Max right now and it's no where near as fast, or as intuitive as the two clips that you've shown. The fact that you've implemented all of the C4D materials, that C4D is so great at, is going to be amazing. I can't imagine what's gonig to come out of just that feature. I can't wait to get my hands on it.

Again, well done. You guys deserve a warm thanks from everyone in the C4D community.

rsquires
05-09-2007, 05:29 AM
Thanks also from me. It looks so well integrated and the speed is fantastic. Obviously it's hard to see the quality of the renders but the videos were nonetheless impressive. I'm interested to know on what machine these were done and if the movies were realtime captures?

I want to get up to speed with Vrays material editors, lights and things in general so I found this which is a very thorough look at what Vray has to offer.

http://www.spot3d.com/vray/help/150R1/index.htm

Will Vray for Cinema4d have some of the more esoteric vray materials like Vray Fur and Vray Dirt or is this something for later on?

regards

Rich

lllab
05-09-2007, 06:30 AM
thanks all:-)

the videos where made by Renato, i think he has done that on a normal dualcore notebook.

speed is really really great. i will show all later speed on my 8 core machine! that is even faster;-)
renato gave me some testscenes and they all rendered in 1 or 2 seconds! (gi+sss and gi +ao)

as you might have noticed renato implemented the level of detail control that now also works for gi rendersettings. thats great for previrerendering. one can fat adjust the detail of rendering with lod. just press cmd-d and adjust it:-) very handy....

cheers
stefan

Rich-Art
05-09-2007, 07:13 AM
I think you and your team have a chicken with golden eggs in your hands.
Congrats with that. Real great job.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

Walli
05-09-2007, 07:40 AM
looks amazing!
But did I see it right, that Renato used EnhanceC4D Shader? I mean, are even third party shaders supported by this bridge? Or is EnhanceC4D a special case?

best,
Walli

ooo
05-09-2007, 08:23 AM
looks amazing!
But did I see it right, that Renato used EnhanceC4D Shader? I mean, are even third party shaders supported by this bridge? Or is EnhanceC4D a special case?

best,
Walli

This is what Stefan wrote about 3rd party shaders:

>> 3rd party enhenced c4d shaders ( they are great- you miss something if you dont have them)
>> most other 3rd parts shaders

all these shaders work without hacks, they just work as you like them in c4d, directly in vray brdf material.
i tried wierdest combinations of multilayered-fusion-projector-distortion shaders...
they just work- they are fully integrated, all animatable:-)

lllab
05-09-2007, 08:29 AM
" But did I see it right, that Renato used EnhanceC4D Shader?"

yes!

all shaders that are generating "texture-structures" are supported, some special thirdparty shaders might not work, but all "normal" one do work. not only enhenced c4d haders.

we just use enhenced shaders very often as they complement the c4d shaders and vray very nice....

cheers
stefan

davedavidson
05-09-2007, 08:48 AM
/me picks jaw off the floor
very nice work and im getting more interested in trying this now, congrats to the team

v-empire
05-09-2007, 10:42 AM
Is it possible to use materials as they can be found on www.vray-materials.de ?

Or is this just max stuff?

Regards
Holger

lllab
05-09-2007, 11:01 AM
no those are maxmaterials.
you can do the same (and nicerbecause of c4d shader support) with the vrayforc4d materialsystem. i will also give many good presets.

cheers
stefan