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ThePriest
11-14-2006, 06:06 PM
ps.: a typical vray rendering takes 30min-1h at print size here.

I don't know what kind of system you've got there, but 30 minutes to an hour.
It's a common subject at my office, that once a scene is complete, we're waiting atleast until the next morning to see the final print sized results.

lllab
11-14-2006, 06:12 PM
0,5-1h-well this is on dr on some quads and core duos...
sketchbook, please no offense please, just 15hours at sceensize is way off the usual.

cheers
stefan

lllab
11-14-2006, 06:25 PM
"obviously depending on complexity,"

..of course, there are more heavy scenes or night scenes with 100s of ligths tha take a bit longer. indoor is longer than outdoor etc. i meant an average scene here...

by the way also in FR2 i have seldom an image rendering more than 1h.(via DR arch scenes with full GI), maybe when release is done i try to do some collected optimization tips.

cheers
stefan

ThePriest
11-14-2006, 06:28 PM
We've got to clear this up;

An average interior, with furniture, reflective floor, several openings and small detailing etc.

You render that A3 (4961x3508pixels) with light cache at an average of say 2500, you're waiting atleast an hour for the light cache to complete. I wouldn't use below 3000.

Whether or not you mix up your light cache with irradience maps I don't know.
But this technique has proven the quickest with us.

With an average to high -3/0 min/max setting and some of the detailing options toned down, your talking another couple of hours to hit those passes before the engine will even consider rendering.

lllab
11-14-2006, 07:08 PM
well it is hard to judge just in writing here,
i just can saya few points:
i dont render that high resolution anymore 8megapixel is enough for me today,
and as you say it heavily depends on scene and settings. an outdoorscene also is much faster. i try to render as much as possible as buckets in dr, so this is much faster.

an GI solution can be rendered at smaller size without glas on, saved and reused for the final image, there is also the new GI material where you can set a simpel material for the GI and a complex for the shading and so on....to much for here now. i am also more fluent in FR at the moment, i am just testing in vray, but never had long rendertimes...

what i am very convinced from all my experience and testing is that vray is one of the fastest quality engines available...in relation to any other highend rendersoftware.

cheers
stefan

sketchbook
11-14-2006, 07:35 PM
well allow me to clear up the the complexity question.

14,000 SF retail space. with a bazillion poly's due to hanging product all over the place. the product is actually modeled. all the fixtures are matte, no reflection, and the floor has a slight blurred reflection for just the isles.

lit with lots of spot lights and some larger ambient lights as well. the space has extremely simple architecture, with most of the detail in the ceiling ducting, etc.

wish i could show an image, but it's NDA as typical.

based on this description, can it be rendered much faster than what i mentioned?

sketchbook
11-14-2006, 07:37 PM
i try to render as much as possible as buckets in dr, so this is much faster.


what is the key to getting the buckets to match up? we have not been able to get them to seamlessly come together.

thanks!

lllab
11-14-2006, 07:48 PM
Hi sketchbook,

i have no idea how long this takes, this would be just i wild guess. still 15h on just screeresolution sounds too much for me, even if the scene is not an average one.
but yes the bazillion polys might be a problem too...but for any renderer.

with DR i also just can guess, but it maybe indicates that there is something not perfect with the setting. or maybe the clients dont get all textures? DR runs very well normally.there should be no seems at all, that is what this is made for. very hard to tell...or maybe a max related problem?

cheers
stefan

fluffouille
11-14-2006, 08:59 PM
lit with lots of spot lights
Here you go. Bazillions of lights + bazillions of objects = render time killer, on any render engine.
Stefan is talking about the GI speed compared to quality, and these spots (I assume they all project shadows?) will slow your raytracing a lot, even if it didn't use any GI.
On FR, I know that the GIs themselves are extremely fast, but throw in there lots of shadow casting lights and some intensive materials to render (like you blurred reflections on the floor), along with a decent AA and it takes forever at these sizes.

I assume Vray is the same, and I know AR is too.

helluvapixel
11-14-2006, 09:25 PM
I will comment on this point that Sebastien just made. I just did a still image render, 1800x1200 using 2 area lights, + 8 spotlights. Both area lights casted area shadows (timekiller #1) and the materials were reflective (timekiller #2) and used ambient occlusion (timekiller #3). Originally the file was CAD so it had many objects and this is timekiller #4.

The other issue is Antialiasing, this can add loads of time.

Even at 2h-3h per render with all the above I still feel it was a bit long.

Lesson 1: area shadows = loooong render times. Use sparingly. A trick you can use is set a low intensity light with low res shadow map to give a soft floor shadow for example

Lesson 2: Unless you are tight in enough to need to see physical reflections of surrounding objects, use a blurred enviro map.

Lesson 3: is to try and render passes. Don't include occlusion in every render, even tests. Render the occlusion once and perfect your lighting/materials. If you change your POV save it for later.

Lesson 4: is consdolidate. You don't have to use a bazillion objects and if you are doing strictly stills I recommend you simply consolidate a scene based on materials. For those animated objects, treat it accordingly. Therefore you can feasibly take something like a store and consolidate to 4 materials (floor, walls, ceiling, luminous polys) which means 4 objects. Then for each object type you could have a material. This alone speeds up rendering as the object tree is short. For raytracing it's faster and more efficient to have 1 object with 1 million polygons than 100 objects totally 1 million polygons.

lllab
11-14-2006, 09:53 PM
well yes as fluffy and jclark073 say,
it havily depends on scenes.

par example i just render a a scene with FR from a big double skyscraper (360mb rhino geometry file), at printresolution, with hdri skies, area light full GI at 4000x1500px as a test @ roughly 5-6 minutes...cant show it either cause of nda, but this is a more or less finished rendering.

i admid this is an extreme fast case as only the skysraper and the water has reflective materials,
but still this is behaving in similar in vray from my experience.

cheers
stefan

helluvapixel
11-14-2006, 09:56 PM
par example i just render a a scene with FR from a big double skyscraper (360mb rhino geometry file), at printresolution, with hdri skies, area light full GI at 4000x1500px as a test @ roughly 5-6 minutes...

On how many processors?? If you say two I'm gonna cry.

lllab
11-14-2006, 10:01 PM
no, this one is on 2 quads and one dual (on the others i calculate something else;-)
cheers
stefan

helluvapixel
11-14-2006, 10:05 PM
no, this one is on 2 quads and one dual (on the others i calculate something else;-)
cheers
stefan

Phew!! Mind you, I was still using 4 cores (2 machines). So, on 10 cores that's nice and fast. I presume you are using Apple's boxes for the quads?

I wanted to also illustrate the need to stipulate # of cores (since cpus are mutli core now) for rendertimes, especially with fR and those renderers that bucket render.

lllab
11-14-2006, 10:07 PM
hehe, i know i am evil today, but next image is finished:-)
4000x1500 half of frankfurt with skyscraper, similar setting to above, rendered 7.04min on 3 machines.

cheers
stefan

helluvapixel
11-14-2006, 10:11 PM
hehe, i know i am evil today, but next image is finished:-)
4000x1500 half of frankfurt with skyscraper, similar setting to above, rendered 7.04min on 3 machines.

cheers
stefan

Awesome. Do you find you're using fR or C4D materials more?

Hope we get to see the images.

Jorge Arango
11-14-2006, 10:25 PM
Stefan,

What's the render hit for DR like. Like for two processors in AR it would around 1.7-1.8.

For FR and Vray?


Jorge Arango

AdamT
11-14-2006, 10:25 PM
Another suggestion: if you're using lots and lots of lights you probably don't need very high GI settings. Cut them way down and just use GI as a sort of uber fill light. Can't say how that translates to VRay, though.

helluvapixel
11-14-2006, 11:00 PM
Another suggestion: if you're using lots and lots of lights you probably don't need very high GI settings. Cut them way down and just use GI as a sort of uber fill light. Can't say how that translates to VRay, though.

That's a good point, as I always say GI is a compliment to good lighting not a lighting rig itself ;)

With fR using a low quality GI solution may be better than my shadowmap light suggestion, I've not tried it.

ThePriest
11-15-2006, 01:09 AM
Another suggestion: if you're using lots and lots of lights you probably don't need very high GI settings. Cut them way down and just use GI as a sort of uber fill light. Can't say how that translates to VRay, though.

Translates well for an older technique, using a skylight, direct light for sun and vray lights in windows, barely did you need GI for those scenes at all.

I think now with the physical sky and sun, people are more reliant on color mapping, with maybe a skylight here and there. It appears more natural.

lllab
11-15-2006, 07:46 AM
very good tipps here,
they translate to every engine.

in final render i try to use FR materials as much as possible. it is always better to use the native materials to the renderengine i think. in vray i use vraymaterials & shaders.

in vray the skysystem alone can be excellent light with gI,
vray might take a bit longer for the GI passes than FR, but it has a more pronouced light for my taste.

jorge that depends on scene. rendertime is cut down almost 50% with doubling cpu power, but you need some preparation time until all clients have the scene. so fast network and clients with a lot of cores are a plus...
(an example: the DR distribution takes 5 min. for a rendering that takes 20 min that a big hit. for a rendering that would normally takes 4h it is very small. dr is really efficient until 7-9 pcs i found out, that means with modern pcs 28-36cores.)

cheers
stefan

lllab
11-19-2006, 04:34 PM
answer to the last question in the main forum(was closed by srek):

Hi Holger,

in short, development is running fine. vray is integrated deep into the cinema interface now, not just a simple connection plugin, of course this was "a bit" more work.

some last things are added, most is done already...:-)
every setting and all tools are inside cinema now.

it comes closer, but i stopped giving release estimates...

hope you understand,
cheers
Stefan
VrayforC4d

RenatoT
11-19-2006, 04:49 PM
we are no far to release the first LLAUB release of it :)

We are just waiting for some deep info about C4D from the support.

Cheers
Renato

hambe
11-19-2006, 05:11 PM
Hi Renato

What is a "LLAUB release" ???

// Dan

shtl
11-19-2006, 05:18 PM
answer to the last question in the main forum(was closed by srek):

Hi Holger,

in short, development is running fine. vray is integrated deep into the cinema interface now, not just a simpe connection plugin, of course this was "a bit" more work.

some last things are added, most is done already...:-)
every setting and all tools are inside cinema now.

it comes closer, but i stopped giving release estimates...

hope you understand,
cheers
Stefan
VrayforC4d

we are no far to release the first LLAUB release of it :)

We are just waiting for some deep info about C4D from the support.

Cheers
Renato



aarrrff guys, looks like hooot !
some like it like that...?

it's geting hard to wait further ;)

lllab
11-19-2006, 05:27 PM
:-)
well the laubrelease will be my special edition, hand signitured by Renato, Danielle and Chris...

cheers
stefan

lllab
11-19-2006, 05:38 PM
"it's geting hard to wait further ;)"

..sorry, you will need a bit more patience, but i guess relativly soon i will show more interesting things...

cheers
Stefan

JoelOtron
11-19-2006, 05:41 PM
Maybe this is a super-dumb question, but just to make sure its clear...

Is this a bridge to Vray that you are creating, or is this the complete VRAY renderengine for c4d.

I'm pretty sure its a reworked version of Vray that works in c4d--as opposed to a plugin which would require users to still purchase Vray from Chaosgroup, correct?

That being the case--if we purchase vray for c4d--does part of our profit go to chaos group--being that its their render engine?

lllab
11-19-2006, 06:15 PM
ok , hope i understand what you mean, and try to answer:

VrayforC4d is a full renderengine, directly integrated into Maxons cinema 4d.

The Renderengine for all existing Vray products (max, c4d, maya, standalone, etc) is developed by Chaosgroup. it is the same as the one used in the new 1.5 3dmax connection.

Our project includes the full Vray Renderengine, plus the plugin that integrates it into cinema.(par example the 3dmax version is vray+a plugin that integrates it to max)

the vrayengine is not reworked by us, it is 100% the original chaosgroup version. they have a sdk that lets you connect it to external apps like cinema, maya, max, xsi, etc.

of course chaosgroup gets their part of the profit- it is their engine, also all vray updates will be made by chaosgroup.

such a integration is more work than just connecting it via some exporters. it is quite some work actually. chaosgroup makes a deeper connection to maya themselves par example, we do it for cinema.

so when you buy it you actually have everything you need to render in vray,
the pure vrayengine+the plugin(this is needed to see&use the engine).

hope that answered some of your questions.

cheers
stefan

JoelOtron
11-19-2006, 06:22 PM
hope that answered some of your questions.

cheers
stefan

Thanks stefan--that completely answered all of my question.

Thanks for your time.
Joel

flingster
11-19-2006, 06:47 PM
couple of questions...please excuse if already covered.

1) will there/is there a UB version for mac with c4d

2) who will maintain future releases when newer version of c4d are released or vray which cause problems with the bridge...who will ensure we can always run c4dvray?

3)What areas of vray standalone will not be supported in final release of c4dvray...eg what won't work that someone may expect to work because its been a problem to bridge?

4) does vray have bucket rendering? what is max resolution attainable

6) 64bit?

5) Is there any technical white paper i can read to learn a little more about vray please?

many thanks...and good luck with it...sounds good so far.

lllab
11-19-2006, 07:04 PM
Hi Flingster,

add1: yes, vray standalone already is ported to UB

add2: the cinema part is done by us,
the vrayengine is updated and supported by chaosgroup as the maxplugin,
minor sp free(service packs ), bigger updates paid.

add3: i think all is supported from standalone, there might be updates from chaosgroup to the standalone

add4: of course it uses buckets, only ram is your limit

add5: yes, there is a 64 bit standalone for longer time

add6: under chaosgroup.com is the official forum, after release on our page vrayforc4d.com

cheers
stefan

Ernest Burden
11-19-2006, 07:15 PM
add2: the cinema part is done by us,
the vrayengine is updated and supported by chaosgroup as the maxplugin,
minor sp free(service packs ), bigger updates paid.

I hope you are ready to continue to work on the bridge. C4D and vRay may change, thus breaking things you worked hard to make work in the first (bridge/marriage) release.


As far as how 'deeply' implemented vRay-for-C4D will be, do you think it will be less than, more than or about the same as what cebas has done with fr2/SP2?

flingster
11-19-2006, 07:43 PM
cheers for the answers and quick response..:thumbsup:

lllab
11-19-2006, 07:45 PM
Hi Earnest,

yes it is planned to continue -of course, we see this more as a long term thing going over several years.

there is very much interest already now, but vray is still growing enormously, and a lot o people get disappointed with some auto...sk products...in short- i see a growing number of people buying it specially over long term.
i think we would be very stupid not to continue it.

Renato is under maxon nda and knows a bit more than i do, so he could develop all for version 10 before it was out. the same should be with further development. also updates should not be so extremly difficult, because vray uses mainly its own structures within cinema. from the chaosgroup side we get regular updates too.

about deepness, it is not directly comparable. vray uses its own very advances brdf shader system not cinemas. and there is also no shader tree.
but beside that all is integrated full into cinema, materials, all GI&rendersetting(thats a huge tab!) lights. so it feels quite cinema like i think.

cheers
stefan

sketchbook
11-19-2006, 07:58 PM
totally excited!

as for 64 bit, that's probably not an option on our macs till the new 64bit OS comes out.

helluvapixel
11-19-2006, 08:03 PM
now that Dell has dual quadcores for like $4g, DR rendering is gonna kick ass in either vray or fR.

time to upgrade!

ngrava
11-20-2006, 04:38 AM
Hey I have a little question: I know that Cinema doesn't properly support Motion Blur. fR has to do a weird thing where they same out some kind of pre-pass motion blur data and then use that in the render. Will you also have to do something like this or is there another way around it?

Oh yeah, I guess I have another question: Will is be possible to buy just the translator and use currently owned Vray licenses? My Studio has 3 licenses for Max already. It would be great to be able utilize them as well.

-=GB=-

lllab
11-20-2006, 08:19 AM
Hi Ngrava,

motionblur is in vray, i must say i havent used it yet, will see at a later point and post...

about licenses, i will try to clear this, in theory yes you can buy only the connection, but be clear that the price of the connection is the bigger part of the vray package.when there is the release you can contact me about this and i will clear it with Vlado. you might be able to save some money, but i cant promise 100% and not how much yet.

cheers
stefan

machmirdenlukas
11-20-2006, 08:57 AM
Hi lllab!
cebas stage2 sp2 introduced ies-lights for c4d. (still buggy with shadows for transparent objects) - is vrayforc4d also going to have this feature?
thanks for your engagement!

lllab
11-20-2006, 09:10 AM
yes ies lights are in vray,
i hope it will make it into 1.0 if not in an update soon after.
(have to talk with Renato to remind him, this is an important feature for sure:-)

cheers
stefan

vesalus
11-20-2006, 11:52 AM
christmas, christmas :bounce: ?

lllab
11-20-2006, 02:20 PM
i tend to quote maxon here- "its finshed when it is finshed";-)

we definitly dont push development to fit into such "artificial" timeframes. it needs thorough testing and good cleanup, optimizing etc. some things have to be cleared with maxon support too to finish it. So i wount promise any release date here, lets see...
cheers
stefan

scanmead
11-20-2006, 02:56 PM
Well, even if it doesn't make into the first release, those IES lights have just put a big smile on my face! However long it takes, or what the price, this is the best time and money I'll be spending in a looonng time!
:bounce:

Ernest Burden
11-20-2006, 05:37 PM
IES lights would be a huge feature, even better if they work right.

lllab
11-20-2006, 05:45 PM
well i did not have the chance to test ies yet, but vray itself supports it since long time. you see that in the maxversion-there is works very well, in the web are many examples of that.

so the functunality is there, Renato has "only" to connect it. we know it is important:-)

cheers
stefan

lllab
11-21-2006, 11:51 AM
new good news,
polyselections now also work in new built with caps and extrude operators(c1,c1,r1,r2 etc):-)

cheers
stefan

SystemofaDown
11-25-2006, 04:46 PM
I dont know if this was answered yet, but how is the material manager going to work? Is it gonna be a shader tree like FR or like cinema?

Thanks, cant wait to buy this!

lllab
11-25-2006, 08:31 PM
no shader tree, it resembles cinema, some controlls in the vraymaterials are different of course due to other functions.

cheers
stefan

howzit
12-01-2006, 08:59 AM
was about to preorder but it says there is nothing for MAC OSX? did i read correctly?

very disappointing if there is no MAC version, which is 50% of the market.....

just the usual later there might be a MAC version, or we are considering a MAC version, does that mean, "sorry no mac version"?







.

howzit
12-01-2006, 09:02 AM
los angeles motion graphics industry is MAC OS........... big market.............

did i really read correctly, no VRAY+CINEMA for MAC OSX?




.

jackb602
12-01-2006, 09:04 AM
did i really read correctly, no VRAY+CINEMA for MAC OSX?

No you didn't. Read over this thread and you'll get the whole story.

JoelOtron
12-01-2006, 12:33 PM
very disappointing if there is no MAC version, which is 50% of the market.....

.

50% of the c4d market--not the 3d market. And c4d has a much smaller percentage of the entire 3d market.

ooo
12-01-2006, 01:11 PM
It has been stated several times there will definitly be an OSX-version. Not only for the bridge but also for Vray itself! So dry your tears and jump :bounce:

odo

SystemofaDown
12-01-2006, 08:52 PM
los angeles motion graphics industry is MAC OS........... big market.............

did i really read correctly, no VRAY+CINEMA for MAC OSX?




.

lol no its not. Ive visited a couple of studios theye're all swtching to PC's. We use PC's at my work too. MACs are a little too overpriced for small budget studios.

diegoto
12-04-2006, 12:12 AM
Hi Stefan,

Is there a time frame established for the release of the Mac version in relation to the PC one? or at least, it is possible to have an approximation?

In case there is a considerable time between the two releases, is it possible to buy a license to be used with boot camp, and then just switch once the Mac version is released?

I can't wait to start using Vray for 4D!

Thanks in advance for your answer,

Diego T

ngrava
12-04-2006, 03:42 AM
I'm not saying that I know it's going to be released at the same time but I do know this: There is definitely a Mac native Vray build. That's not going to be up to these guys to worry about. The only thing they need to do is make sure their plug-in works with it. The other thing I know is that a lot of the times, building a Cinema plug-in for another platform is just a matter of recompiling. So taking all that into consideration, it's likely that the PC and Mac versions will be in line with each other.

howzit
12-04-2006, 04:43 AM
lol no its not. Ive visited a couple of studios theye're all swtching to PC's. We use PC's at my work too. MACs are a little too overpriced for small budget studios.

PCs cost A LOT a lot more than MACs.

top of the line Macs are about $3500, top of the line PCs are around $5000-6000 for a decent set-up, how does tha make MACs more expensive. Maybe if you buy a mid-level PC built in a backyard its cheaper.
its the BIG studios on PCs, and they run Maya. If a studio is running PC they are probably running Maya.

Per-Anders
12-04-2006, 04:58 AM
Please keep it on topic everyone, CGTalk is not the place to have your platform wars, I would hate to have to close this thread because it descended into flames.

lllab
12-05-2006, 12:55 PM
Hi all,

vray standalone exists as macosx version, as said often here. it should be relatively easy to recompile the cinema part of the plugin for osx, lets see...

cheers
stefan

lllab
12-05-2006, 12:59 PM
p.s. and i am testing a very nice new release from Renato. we found some standalone bugs that hopefully vlado can solve soon. all aspects of vray and the interface is very well integrated now:-) feels very smooth...

cheers
stefan

shtl
12-05-2006, 01:10 PM
Hey Stefan. That would be nice from you if it's possible to show some renders from c4d, just for pleasure ?

lllab
12-05-2006, 01:26 PM
not yet;-)

Jorge Arango
12-05-2006, 01:27 PM
Hi all,

vray standalone exists as macosx version...

cheers
stefan

And how does that work? How do you export the geometry to vray? From what application? Or can you model in vray standalone?


Jorge Arango

lllab
12-05-2006, 02:22 PM
no it is just everything in osx.
UB (thats is both PPC AND Intel)
the plugin, vray, just all you need...

cheers
stefan

ps.: to be absolute clear:

you work in c4d. you use brdf materals, lights cameras etc just as normal. you select vray as renderengine, adjust the Gi and render settings and press render...

then vray renders in your viewport, or in the pictureviewer, just as AR does. this is on mac or winxp/vista

very easy, very native....:-)

sketchbook
12-05-2006, 02:40 PM
man, your killing me! in a good way

Jorge Arango
12-05-2006, 02:47 PM
...adjust the Gi and render settings and press render...



Is there a manual for the standalone (that we can read before the bridge is ready)?

Jorge Arango

lllab
12-05-2006, 03:00 PM
Jorge,
the standalone itself has NO interface.
so there is no manual.

so it only works if you programm a interface and connect it. thats what our plugin is.
overall the manual for vrayfor max shows all vrayfunctions. all engine settings and parameters are the same.

cheers
stefan

chris_b
12-05-2006, 03:09 PM
The Vray HTML manual is online here for those curious about what the settings look like. Also, in my experience, there are quite a few similarities between FinalRender's settings and Vray's settings... so that can also be of some help. Both are far deeper and more complex than AR, especially in the GI department....

http://www.spot3d.com/vray/help/150R1/

Jorge Arango
12-05-2006, 03:25 PM
The Vray HTML manual is online here for those curious about what the settings look like. Also, in my experience, there are quite a few similarities between FinalRender's settings and Vray's settings... so that can also be of some help. Both are far deeper and more complex than AR, especially in the GI department....

http://www.spot3d.com/vray/help/150R1/

Thank you Chris,

That's what I was looking for.


Jorge Arango

RenatoT
12-05-2006, 04:10 PM
Hi All,

Llaub wrote:
"then vray renders in your viewport, or in the pictureviewer, just as AR does. this is on mac or winxp/vista very easy, very native....:-)"

Have you tried the VrayBridge in the R10 Interactive Rendering (alt-r) ? :)
What about C4D Netrender?

Today Vlado sent to me the new release.. the main glass problem is fixed, now i'll test all others little problems.

Best regards
Renato T.

lllab
12-05-2006, 04:16 PM
yes you are right,
forgot to mention, of course the alr r- v10 works too!!!
netrender works already too???
havent expected it yet Renato-cool;-)

have to finish a job the i test the new release deeper:-)))

but i can say it is a joy to use it!

cheers
stefan

p.s. its cool that Vlado reacts so fast in bug fixing

nycL45
12-05-2006, 04:23 PM
The excitement is building!!! And, I am looking forward to this new arrival.

Jorge Arango
12-05-2006, 04:34 PM
netrender works already too???



Tell us a little about netrender, what is the licensing scheme?

Jorge Arango

lllab
12-05-2006, 05:27 PM
Netrender license: good question, we need to clear that with Vlado...

thanks Chris for the link,
yes there are similar GI settings in some respect of course. although i like FR much i think the shader quality of vray is far superior, especially the bumpmapping and texture mappings.#
anybody who has some experience with FR will find it easy in vray too i guess.

cheers
Stefan

dan22
12-05-2006, 07:02 PM
Sorry to be thick - but what is a brdf material? (Ducks for cover..feeling stupid...)

Cheers,

D.

Robert Glotzbach
12-05-2006, 07:07 PM
Hi Stefan,

I'm interested in the following: I saw in the feature list of V-Ray, that there is this function called "Displacement mapping". How does this relate to SPD build in to AR in terms of functioning and quality?
Also I did not see any where mentioned that the preorder period with the reduced price tag was finished; is it still possible to preorder and get the reduced price and if so, untill when?

Thank you and good luck,

Kind regards, Robert

lllab
12-05-2006, 08:48 PM
@dan:
brdf material is vrays advanced shading material. it has similar controls to a c4d material, some settings are different and some more detaled than in c4d.
it is a material that takes a lot of surface features in account. it is also bidirectional in u+v from its nature. it is needed to render in the vray engine.

easier said it is a adavanced vray-material...

@robert goltzbach:
under vrayforc4d.com you find how to preorder. preorder is still available. but it might finish in the following weeks. i will say it here a few days before it ends...
more detail info about the engine itself will come a bit later...
we are not 100% finished yet.

cheers
stefan

jsls
12-05-2006, 08:59 PM
Do we need to pre-order from VRAY or will there be a way to order through you guys?

lllab
12-05-2006, 09:18 PM
vrayforc4d.com is the only place to preorder it at the moment.
that is our site anyway.

there is a description how you can mail me and preorder:-)

cheers
stefan

kossoolli
12-10-2006, 06:44 PM
Any news so far? Is the development finished now? Is beta-testing already in progress?

RenatoT
12-10-2006, 08:33 PM
Hi Kosso, hi all :)

The develpment is at the end for the first release.
The *bridge* is 100% integrated in Cinema4D but we need to implement shader.
So, the project is coming and very good.. better than i expect for this first release :)

Cheers
Renato T.

shtl
12-10-2006, 09:05 PM
200% useless post:

arrrggg I can't stand it anymore! This is coming... coming....

I have 2 huges projects for mid-january, can I hope for it ? Is my question a bad one ? ^^

anyhow keep it up :bounce:

RenatoT
12-10-2006, 10:19 PM
200% useless post:
arrrggg I can't stand it anymore! This is coming... coming....
I have 2 huges projects for mid-january, can I hope for it ? Is my question a bad one ? ^^
anyhow keep it up :bounce:

Hi shtl,

Today you can make all job with the current VrayForC4d except to use procedural materials, so are needed only the textures but about the rest, is doing very well all.

I hope to release very soon the product but for us it's very importants that the *bridge* offert more than the customers expect. ;)

Cheers
Renato

shtl
12-10-2006, 10:28 PM
Yeah... I guess so.
Thanks very much for answering Renato. Anyhow I'll wait the right release, the working-well one, the smooth pro-workflow one, as everybody here :thumbsup:. I didn't expect your last post so anyhow I was about to work under AR as usual. But when I saw that post... !

¡que sera sera!


But this is very good news, especially coming from you. So thanks again for the great work you guys are doing. Keep it up and take care.

C-Ya next update post ^^

helluvapixel
12-10-2006, 10:33 PM
I have 2 huges projects for mid-january, can I hope for it ? Is my question a bad one ? ^^

Yes your question is a bad one. I would presume you've already quoted your work based on what you know and own and use now??? I mean really, why would you be so anxious to base your work on something you next to nothing about with bugs you have no idea of and even how well implemented the technology is to C4D.

Stick to what you know, let the Vray-for-C4D be a pleasant surprise and laboratory of rendering when it does arrive.

shtl
12-10-2006, 11:26 PM
Yop you're right, I'm some time that silly enthousiastic kind of guy. :D
If Renato says it's coming very great, I know it's gonna be great. If he says wait further, I'll wait the time needed.

And I actually do appreciate the way Stefan and Renato are running the thing.
But what do I know? When they post "this is so cool, every thing is coming great and even better" posts, I'm just jumping stoopid in front of my screen. :scream:

Ok I'll leave serious pple work arround.

But thanks again for feedback.

++

ThePriest
12-11-2006, 01:22 AM
@ 'JClark073'

I've just given an ArchViz job to a freelancer in N.J and as we discussed, the Cinema via Max to VRay route is a reality for many. Although we're anticipating a quick release for the direct connection, hoping for it and pressing Renato to work harder/faster may just pay off. :thumbsup:

helluvapixel
12-11-2006, 01:42 AM
@ 'JClark073'

I've just given an ArchViz job to a freelancer in N.J and as we discussed, the Cinema via Max to VRay route is a reality for many. Although we're anticipating a quick release for the direct connection, hoping for it and pressing Renato to work harder/faster may just pay off. :thumbsup:

All fair, just saying it's not wise to plan around 'vapourware' cuz at this moment that's all the bridge is to C4D users until its release. I hope the product comes out busting butt for all those that are Vray fans. Good luck with it!

rsquires
12-11-2006, 02:38 AM
Hi Renato

You say that the present build of the Vray to C4d bridge doesn't include procedurals. Does that relate to C4D's procedurals or to Vrays. I know I will be most likely using the Vray materials as they are optimised for the renderer, but I expect early on to be feeling my way with Cinemas materials that I know very well.

Glad it has come up better than you expected. Knowing your previous work and hi quality plugins I would expect nothing less

best regards

rich

RenatoT
12-11-2006, 03:58 AM
hi all,

rsquires:

I meant that we are working to finish the connection that will include the vray shaders.
Today, it's the only thing that need to be implemented.

The Vray materials and shaders will be seen in the standard material manager and for the final user wil be the same thing. So.. you'll put shaders in each material channel like before.
I'm a cinema 4D user, like you all :)

Best regards
Renato T.

fluffouille
12-11-2006, 04:15 AM
The Vray materials and shaders will be seen in the standard material manager and for the final user wil be the same thing. So.. you'll put shaders in each material channel like before.
I'm a cinema 4D user, like you all :)

Best regards
Renato T.
Now this is exciting! :)
Vray is not really "vaporware" as of now, but I agree that we should just all be patient and see when and how it comes along in the end. I don't doubt it will be great, though.

rsquires
12-11-2006, 10:06 AM
hi all,

rsquires:

I meant that we are working to finish the connection that will include the vray shaders.
Today, it's the only thing that need to be implemented.

The Vray materials and shaders will be seen in the standard material manager and for the final user wil be the same thing. So.. you'll put shaders in each material channel like before.
I'm a cinema 4D user, like you all :)

Best regards
Renato T.

Thanks for clearing that up. The Vray shaders/materials are very exciting from this site:

http://www.vray-materials.de/highlights.php

Is it possible that the C4D shaders will be able to do the sort of stuff that's on these pages because if so I am even more excited. It does say that they have to use Vray fur so will this be supported

sorry to keep nagging

regards

rich

lllab
12-11-2006, 12:28 PM
Hi All,
sorry i am bit ill, that why i didnt answer last days...

Yes Renato did a really great job, the releases i get are very stable and can do almost all things.
the integration is great, you see the vrayshaders (approximation) in the cinema viewport!
it renders in the viewport,also with alt-R in v10. the vray materials are in the material manager just like the c4d ones... as Renato says, this is made by a cinema user:-)

Still i have to remember we have to do some betatesting more. there are so much possibilities where tiny bugs can be hidden, and beside adding the vray shaders, which isnt a too big problem i think,
we have to make distributed rendering and ies and also the physical camera and sun/sky system from vray 1.5 work. For this it need some parts from Vlado too and get the 100% final standalone.

...so release is not too far away, but i would not plan my january projects 100% for it, we will soon also make bigger betacycles and see what comes back.
i think it is very very important to have a clean and good release. please have a bit more patience, give it the time it needs;-)

cheers
stefan

Katachi
12-11-2006, 12:35 PM
Just want to second Stefan and support this. Yes, a good beta cycle can save you lots of time retweaking load of stuff, so guys, let them work to give you what a good bridge needs: it must work!

You don´t wanna feel like you have bought a Maxwell license do you?! ;)

Keep it up! Good to see Renato is making progress.
Best
Samir

lllab
12-11-2006, 01:29 PM
thanks Samir,

here is a small teaser for now:-)
just a simpel testscene renato did, but you have an idea of the interface i guess.
the materials in the left are vraymaterials, they behave just as c4d materials, for the lights you have a vraylight tag for advanced options, you see also a very small part of the renderoptions...

have a look:
http://www.vrayforc4d.com/screenshots/LL_screen_interface_001.jpg

cheers
stefan

kossoolli
12-11-2006, 01:36 PM
That is so great, Vray comes real for C4D-Users!
By the way, I always read that using a shellac material is the best way to make carpaint in Vray, is this possible for us?

dtschultz
12-11-2006, 02:53 PM
Cool! Thanks for the preview of the interface, etc.

ooo
12-11-2006, 03:09 PM
You certainly teased me with that interfacepicture!
Way to go! :thumbsup:

odo

fluffouille
12-11-2006, 03:13 PM
Wow, looks like an integration as good as Final Render so far.
Way to go!

vbvcvj
12-11-2006, 04:12 PM
Wow, that's great, and thanks for sharing that beautiful interface screenshot.

BTW, does the bridge support VFB ( Vray frame buffer )? from that screenshot, it only shows the old C4D picture buffer, which is not as powerful as VFB.

nycL45
12-11-2006, 04:25 PM
Almost time to chill the champagne!

Nice work guys and thanks for the updates.

Continuumx
12-11-2006, 05:06 PM
Just want to second Stefan and support this. Yes, a good beta cycle can save you lots of time retweaking load of stuff, so guys, let them work to give you what a good bridge needs: it must work!

You don´t wanna feel like you have bought a Maxwell license do you?! ;)

Keep it up! Good to see Renato is making progress.
Best
Samir

Hey, ouch! I think we did a good job of beta testing the last plugin release of cinemaxwell!:)

Good work Renato and Stefan! Looks very good, good to see some great rendering options for Cinema 4D becoming more and more abundant and diverse!

Continuumx
12-11-2006, 05:27 PM
I would be curious to see some comparisons across platforms, compare the output from 3Dsmax(Vray) with output from Cinema4D(Vray). If output across platforms is good then this will be a good thing.

I am also interested in seeing higher quality output as a test as well.

lllab
12-11-2006, 06:40 PM
hi tyron,
the output should be the same as max as it is the same rendercore.

this screenshot is only to show the interface, testscenes etc will come later;-)

@vbvcvj: yes the vray-vfb is available as options with full interactive tone curve control, the same as in maxvray. as said the engine is the same as the one in max.

cheers
stefan

Continuumx
12-11-2006, 06:44 PM
hi tyron,
the output should be the same as max as it is the same rendercore.

this screenshot is only to show the interface, testscenes etc will come later;-)

@vbvcvj: yes the vray-vfb is available as options with full interactive tone curve control, the same as in maxvray. as said the engine is the same as the one in max.

cheers
stefan

Thanks Stefan,

I will be curious as usual to see these test scenes!

kossoolli
12-11-2006, 07:33 PM
WOW! Seems like we can use every little feature that the max-version has. Great!

vesalus
12-11-2006, 09:32 PM
great news, nice work so far :bounce:

osxman
12-11-2006, 09:41 PM
...The Vray shaders/materials are very exciting from this site:

http://www.vray-materials.de/highlights.php

Is it possible that the C4D shaders will be able to do the sort of stuff that's on these pages because if so I am even more excited. It does say that they have to use Vray fur so will this be supported

sorry to keep nagging

regards

rich
Yes I'd really like to clear this too. Several of these highlighted Vray-mats are 100% procedural. So:
1. will 3D noise be available (not necessarily C4D noise)?

2. what about that fur :)?

3. I'm also wondering how the license will work – will the bridge be tied to a cinema license? Is the stand-alone renderer tied to hardware (like FR2) or dongle?

Otherwise everything looks (thanks for the screenshot Stefan) and sounds absolutely bl--dy fantastic. Truly amazing work done by Renato!

Sorry for joining rsquires in nagging.

RenatoT
12-11-2006, 09:57 PM
Yes I'd really like to clear this too. Several of these highlighted Vray-mats are 100% procedural. So:
1. will 3D noise be available (not necessarily C4D noise)?

2. what about that fur :)?

3. I'm also wondering how the license will work – will the bridge be tied to a cinema license? Is the stand-alone renderer tied to hardware (like FR2) or dongle?

Otherwise everything looks (thanks for the screenshot Stefan) and sounds absolutely bl--dy fantastic. Truly amazing work done by Renato!

Sorry for joining rsquires in nagging.

Hi,

I'm implementing all procedural shaders supported in the current vray release.

Maybe that i'll do a shader to trace the my Fur and all Fur generated with the U in the width and V in the heigh. Polygonal hair can be rendered too.

I don't like dongle.. :) but we need to meet about this.

Cheers
Renato

osxman
12-11-2006, 11:52 PM
Hi,

I'm implementing all procedural shaders supported in the current vray release.

Maybe that i'll do a shader to trace the my Fur and all Fur generated with the U in the width and V in the heigh. Polygonal hair can be rendered too.

I don't like dongle.. :) but we need to meet about this.

Cheers
Renato
Wow, thanks for the quick reply!

Sorry if I'm being "thick" but I don't know enough about Vray shaders to know if your reply means that procedural 2D/3D noise will be available (for displacement, bump, etc.). An acquaintance of mine, that is a long time Vray user, once told me that the Vray standalone has no such capabilities (forcing the use of bitmaps), but I'm hoping that he's wrong(?).

I'm basically wondering if fully procedural materials like:
http://www.vray-materials.de/all_materials.php?mat=532
and
http://www.vray-materials.de/all_materials.php?mat=543
would be possible with?

When looking for more info on the subject I've found nothing. Any hints or info would be very helpful in determining if this is a product for me (I'm a very "procedural kind of guy" :))!

Even the remote possibility of fur sounds great!

I actually prefer a dongle to the FR2-kind-of-solution but a number-based solution (like Maxon's) is of course always the least cumbersome.

staraswan
12-11-2006, 11:58 PM
:thumbsup: thanks for the news

RenatoT
12-12-2006, 12:10 AM
Hi all,

these two material are very beautiful :)
I think that with the use of shaders nested like in cinema these material can be done. :)
But i don't know what's the difference of the Max Vray and the standalone.
We'll work also in a library of material and i need to investigate about this specific library.

Cheers
Renato

osxman
12-12-2006, 12:23 AM
Hi all,

these two material are very beautiful :)
I think that with the use of shaders nested like in cinema these material can be done. :)
But i don't know what's the difference of the Max Vray and the standalone.
We'll work also in a library of material and i need to investigate about this specific library.

Cheers
Renato
I'll be looking out for your conclusions :)

I'll try to get some more info about the Max/standalone differences from my friend, but if I remember correctly, I think that it had something to do with procedural noise and the likes only being available through Max/Vray-plugins. If Vlado happens to read this thread I'm sure he could enlighten us(?).

Stéphane out (Zzzzz)

vid2k2
12-12-2006, 12:24 AM
Renato,

Since you are mac, will Vray for C4D also be for UB
as well as PPC ?

And, what is the lowest # version Vray for C4D will work with

TIA.

Edit: I'd prefer no dongle, please (too much like LW)

RenatoT
12-12-2006, 12:32 AM
osxman :) I'll write email to Vlado.

vid2k2:
With the *bridge* plugin you'll get vray too and the plugin will work on both R9.6 and R10.
In fact if you have a VrayLicense you just only to install the plugin that have inside all need.


I'll start first porting test in this week.. or later :)
Is planned to release the plugin for both platform.

Cheers
Renato

ngrava
12-12-2006, 01:06 AM
Wow, thanks for the quick reply!

Sorry if I'm being "thick" but I don't know enough about Vray shaders to know if your reply means that procedural 2D/3D noise will be available (for displacement, bump, etc.). An acquaintance of mine, that is a long time Vray user, once told me that the Vray standalone has no such capabilities (forcing the use of bitmaps), but I'm hoping that he's wrong(?).

I'm basically wondering if fully procedural materials like:
http://www.vray-materials.de/all_materials.php?mat=532
and
http://www.vray-materials.de/all_materials.php?mat=543
would be possible with?

When looking for more info on the subject I've found nothing. Any hints or info would be very helpful in determining if this is a product for me (I'm a very "procedural kind of guy" :))!

Even the remote possibility of fur sounds great!

I actually prefer a dongle to the FR2-kind-of-solution but a number-based solution (like Maxon's) is of course always the least cumbersome.

Hey OSXMan,

I use Vray in Max here at work and I happen to know a little about what you are asking because I was prodding Vlado about it a while back too.

So, will you be able to produce shaders like the ones in the pictures using only procedural textures? It depends on a few things: First and foremost, what procedural textures did they use to make those examples? I would assume that in most cases they are just standard Max procedurals that have been layered and combined in vary creative ways. The Max system is very similar to C4D in the way you can combine and layer textures. I can tell you that for the most part, there is really nothing special about Max procedurals and most of the basic textures are available in Cinema too. If anything Cinema's shading system is much more advanced.
The other thing is that Vlado has made a Vray plug-in standard that includes a way to make your own shaders (as well as procedural geometry and render extensions like the VrayFur example). There are already a few avalible now. The "Fast SSS" and "Carpaint" textures are examples of custom textures/shaders that are included with Vray. So, we have a few options there as well.
The last issue is one that Renato needs to figgure out and that is whether or not he can get the C4D textures to render in Vray or if he can get C4D to use the Vray plug-ins. He did say he had one those issues figured out but it wasn't clear which it was. ;)

Either way, there will most likely be a lot of options to choose from.

I hope this helps to clear this up a little.

Per-Anders
12-12-2006, 01:35 AM
Renato should be able to sample most Cinema shaders for use in VRay by using AttachVolumeDataFake, this allows the generation of a nearly empty volumedata without it being totally filled with geometry data (which would be memory intensive, and is done by simply stopping the render process at a different point in the pipeline) but with camera data, this will allow the generation and handling of most projection methods and therefore the sampling of most shaders both 2D and volumetric, some shaders though wont work this way, as they require geometry information.

The handling of Cinema's material tag system shouldn't be underestimated in terms of potential complexity though, due to the combination not just of tags on a single object (and their options and projection handling) but tags and selections accross multiple objects within a hierarchy, and then the resulting effect for instance of combining materials with alphas differing projections and selection limits on each channel. Though it sounds as if they've already sorted all of this side of things out already.

osxman
12-12-2006, 07:10 AM
Renato, ngrava and Per-Anders:
What you have to say sure sounds promising. Hope you can pull it off Renato. If anyone can, I guess it would be you ;).

Eager to see what Vlado has to say...

Cheers,
Stéphane

lllab
12-12-2006, 10:10 AM
Dear Users,

for the first release we will support all in the sdk available vray-shaders, no c4d shaders.
i counted 25(Renato corrected me, the other plugin are not for texture or shaders) vrayshader.dlls at the moment, there are shaders for combining shaders, for blending, for sss, for some proceduals, but we first have to connect all to say exactly for what effects they might be used. the vrayshaders are also highly optimized for vray use and speed.

when i get the built with all shaders from Renato i can test and compare with maxversion shaders. what i can promise is to compare some of the nice vraymaterials there and translate them for c4d, when we have all vrayshaders in my built.

at the end you can make all kind of materials with the vray setup, maybe a tiny bit of other workflow, because we are on c4d not max.

in the end the rendercores of both max, maya and cinema will be the same. only the connections are different.
the standalone is basicly nothing but the rendercore without maxconnection with sdk.
We just have to wait that Vlado puts his latest stuff into the new sdk. he send us updates regulary.

as i said, we need a tiny bit more of patience;-)
cheers
Stefan

VICCHEN
12-12-2006, 10:26 AM
VRAY for CINEMA 4D comming!

MAC OS X verison will come out same time too?

nycL45
12-12-2006, 11:58 AM
@ Vicchen
This is the most popular question asked here and these guys have answered it many, many times. Your answer is in more than one post over the last couple of pages. In fact, it is so near that if it had teeth, it would bite you. ;)

VICCHEN
12-12-2006, 12:26 PM
I am sorry.....just cannot wait. :P

nycL45
12-12-2006, 06:35 PM
@ Vicchen, it is okay, I am with you. Renato and Stefan have worked hard on a solid bridge and in the process, whipped up the excitement.

fretshredder
12-13-2006, 12:41 AM
Stefan ... PM sent :p

RenatoT
12-13-2006, 02:11 AM
Per-Anders (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=12603):

Thanks for the info :)

Cheers
Renato

pillemann
12-14-2006, 12:25 PM
will vrayforc4d be able to render hair (hair modul,not polygonal hair)?
..if not..is it possible to do it in an future update?

lllab
12-14-2006, 02:18 PM
Hair is made specificly for AR. no other renderengine can render this without making it polygons, sorry....this would meant a total rewrite of hair.

cheers
Stefan

Jorge Arango
12-14-2006, 02:50 PM
Hair is made specificly for AR. no other renderengine can render this without making it polygons, sorry....this would meant a total rewrite of hair.

cheers
Stefan

Is there the possibility of Renato's fur plugin for vray?

Jorge Arango

lllab
12-14-2006, 03:00 PM
it might be, yes, he said somehting about such a possibility to port his hair shader, renatos hair render anyway in every renderengine., but i cant promise for the first release.

i once again want to repeat, an external renderengine is no one-button replacement for AR. (it is also never meant to be a replacement for AR!)

even the best integration will require some different workflows, new knowledge and training time and love;-).
also be clear that all AR specific renderplugins will probably not work with other engines.
it is a new peace of software within cinema that will time also take some time for all of us to integrate it in our brains.

we will try to make the very best integration possible, and it will also evolve over time, with regular updates.VrayforC4d is for us a long term project. the first release is just the start for the next years:-)

cheers
Stefan

Per-Anders
12-14-2006, 09:32 PM
Actually HAIR outputs spline guides and hair splines (and can also output polygonal geometry in the same way that F&F does) which can be converted to ricurves in Renderman compliant render engines that support ricurves and would even be able to be converted to hair primtives in Mental Ray (much as Shave is), it's down to what the render engine supports, and how the bridge is coded to deal with such objects when it encounters them. If the render engine has a suitable hair/curve primitive built in then it can be made to render HAIR, but HAIR in C4D's AR has it's own hair primitive.

RenatoT
12-14-2006, 09:40 PM
Hi all,

will be good if Vray support ri-curve like Renderman. I'll ask to Vlado because i would like to support all c4d features.
Maybe that we can render in a buffer with Hair and composite it with the vray buffer? :)
I'll ask to maxon too.

Cheers
Renato

ngrava
12-14-2006, 11:56 PM
Hi all,

will be good if Vray support ri-curve like Renderman. I'll ask to Vlado because i would like to support all c4d features.
Maybe that we can render in a buffer with Hair and composite it with the vray buffer? :)
I'll ask to maxon too.

Cheers
Renato

Hey Guys, I'm a beta tester for Hairtrix (Ornatrix/hairFX) and this is one of the areas that I have been really focused on lately. The bad news is that Vray has no hair or spline primitive to speak of. There is are primitives that can be used for accelerated hair rendering but the speed gain is only slight. We've been going round and round with this for a while. The good news, like Per pointed out, is that Cinema is like Max in that it can be called on throughout the render process to render things for the current render plug-in. So, with a little work you can get cinema to render the hair and Vray to render everything else.
The other option (that no one has tried that I know of) is to build a custom render extension to Vray that just uses Vray to render hair volumes. Luckily, Renato also has his own hair renderer. I'm not positive about this but I think it's just a matter of porting your own hair engine to Vary as a plug-in. Not sure if this would be faster or not but it would definitely be more integrated. A trick would be to see if you could render Cinema hair with your hair renderer in Vray. :)
I've see different people implement their own volumetric engines in Vray. If you check out the Vray forum, one of the guys who did this (volumetric texture engine) wrote up a little project overview. I'll see if I can dig that up...

Jershaun
12-15-2006, 08:09 AM
At the risk of being shouted at, I would like to ask Renato 2 questions.

1. Will V4C4D support RPC's
2. Will C4D 9.1 be compatible

I'm hoping for a "yes" to at least no. 2

Thanks, Jershaun

RenatoT
12-15-2006, 11:25 AM
Jershaun: What do you mean with RPC? The plugin is compiled for 9.6, i'm sorry.

Ngrava: thanks for these infos.

here a little preview:

i'm not good with these thing.. but the interesting thing is that this imase use the C4D shaders. In this case Enhance:C4D and some others mixed noise.

http://www.tarabella.it/C4D/VrayForC4d/VrayEnanche4D.jpg

Cheers
Renato T.
http://www.tarabella.it/C4D/VrayForC4d/Vray_Enanche4D.jpg

lllab
12-15-2006, 11:54 AM
Well, i just got a great demo movie from Renato:-)

i wanted to keep it as a surprice, but as he already said, c4d shaders might work too!
:-)
cheers
Stefan

p.s.-Thanks PER!

noise works!
all other surface shaders too
i hope a good christmas surpise for all:-)

Jershaun
12-15-2006, 11:59 AM
Hi Renato

RPC's = http://www.archvision.com/

At present I render them in C4D with AR. Will Vray render them as well?

Thanks, Jershaun

lllab
12-15-2006, 12:39 PM
To be more precise:

Renato made it work that in a bRDF material you can use vrayshaders AND c4d surface shaders (my beloved NOISE with all kinds too:-) at the same time to be able to use the full potential of both worlds-vray and cinema4d.

this is an extremly powerfull combination!

cheers
Stefan

fluffouille
12-15-2006, 12:52 PM
That's great news! Can't wait to mix some noise around :)

lllab
12-15-2006, 12:54 PM
well honestly i am surprized myself -
Renato did that so fast-unbelieveable....

the power of vray and still having my c4d-noises- that makes me happy:-)

cheers
Stefan

kossoolli
12-15-2006, 12:56 PM
Stefan and Renato,
your work is wonderfull! I think Vray for C4d will be a very powerfull render-solution! Thanks! My dream comes true, Vray for C4D with all it's existent features, plus the power of C4D.

neosushi
12-15-2006, 01:02 PM
Hey, that's great news :) I'm really looking forward to see this done. Anyway, are there any more Screenshots you can show, to teaser us a bit :)

cheers
::neosushi::

ngrava
12-15-2006, 05:54 PM
Hi Renato

RPC's = http://www.archvision.com/

At present I render them in C4D with AR. Will Vray render them as well?

Thanks, Jershaun
Hey Jershaun,

Aren't RPC's just texture mapped Polygons that always point at the camera? Like the "Billboard" technique? Maybe I'm missing something but, I don't see why they wouldn't render.

osxman
12-15-2006, 06:50 PM
Stefan or Renato:

Do you mean that we will be able to use all C4D noise-types as both 2D and 3D inside the Vray shaders!? :bounce:

Do they look, work and scale (in both 2D and 3D space) the same way as in AR (just asking since I believe FR2 is having (or had?) problems with this)?

I think this feature, if working correctly, would be a real killer since it means that recreating C4D procedural materials for use with Vray, should be fairly easy.
If this is true, then I'm your next customer! :love:

sketchbook
12-15-2006, 07:11 PM
oh mama! don't you even mention christmas presents and get our hopes up unless you are serious! that would be sweet!

RenatoT
12-15-2006, 07:13 PM
Stefan or Renato:

Do you mean that we will be able to use all C4D noise-types as both 2D and 3D inside the Vray shaders!? :bounce:

yes :)

The sphere that you see is mapped in UV for now with some enhance:c4d noise and some standard c4d noise.

Cheers
Renato

osxman
12-15-2006, 07:31 PM
yes :)
:drool: – looking for wallet...

The sphere that you see is mapped in UV for now with some enhance:c4d noise and some standard c4d noise.
Sorry for my ignorance but what's "enhance:c4d noise"? :blush:

ooo
12-15-2006, 07:37 PM
Sorry for my ignorance but what's "enhance:c4d noise"? :blush:

It's a new plugin from 3D-attack. Check the latest issue of the magazine for more info. More to come! :)

Some exceptional great news here guys! Beer for everyone :beer:

odo

osxman
12-15-2006, 07:53 PM
Thanks for the info odo.
Cheers :beer:
Stéphane

ngrava
12-15-2006, 08:01 PM
It's a new plugin from 3D-attack. Check the latest issue of the magazine for more info. More to come! :)

Some exceptional great news here guys! Beer for everyone :beer:

odo

What?!! You mean Vray will even render 3rd party shaders too? HOLY CRAP!! That's amazing. Really Renato. You've really gone way past what I was expecting. This is going to be so cool. I can't wait!! :D

This is hilarious though. Vray for Maya or XSI aren't even out yet and here we are just a round they bend from a release. We are actually going to be the only other platform with a working Vray port besides Max. In Vary for Maya, you can't use any of the other shaders other then the ones that come with Vray.

sunmade
12-15-2006, 08:37 PM
wow, that's just impressive Renato, great work!!!

Renato, can you tell us if the Compositing Tag will work, and "Composite Background"?

Thank you so very much Renato and Stefan!!

Exciting times they are! ;)

cheers
chris

RenatoT
12-15-2006, 09:29 PM
What?!! You mean Vray will even render 3rd party shaders too? HOLY CRAP!! That's amazing. Really Renato. You've really gone way past what I was expecting. This is going to be so cool. I can't wait!! :D

This is hilarious though. Vray for Maya or XSI aren't even out yet and here we are just a round they bend from a release. We are actually going to be the only other platform with a working Vray port besides Max. In Vary for Maya, you can't use any of the other shaders other then the ones that come with Vray.

Hi all,

Yes, i wrote a shader wrapper that ask each pixel color to the c4d shaders. Today are supported all color shaders, noise, grid, gradient, bitmap and all layer, fusion etc.

Cheers
Renato

jackb602
12-16-2006, 09:47 PM
Hi all,

Yes, i wrote a shader wrapper that ask each pixel color to the c4d shaders. Today are supported all color shaders, noise, grid, gradient, bitmap and all layer, fusion etc.

Cheers
Renato


This sounds phenomenal Renato! Dare I ask if the C4D Filter shader works as well? Can't wait to see (not to mention buy) the finished product.

Jack

RenatoT
12-16-2006, 10:14 PM
All standard 2D/3D shaders are working.
Filter, Layer, Fusion etc.. are ok :)

Cheers
Renato

jackb602
12-16-2006, 10:58 PM
Great news!

Per-Anders
12-16-2006, 11:24 PM
All standard 2D/3D shaders are working.
Filter, Layer, Fusion etc.. are ok :)

Cheers
Renato

Glad you got it working, that little tidbit was added in 9.6 by the way so unless you really check out the new features in the SDK docs it's easy to miss (someone should make sure that Cebas and NextLimit are aware of this too really... it almost needs a "so you want to bridge to your own render engine" section in the sdk docs).

sketchbook
12-16-2006, 11:39 PM
per, we owe you one!

just think of how happy earnest will be. max doens't have jack for noise, etc.

yeah!

Per-Anders
12-16-2006, 11:47 PM
Not really. Thank Maxon, they added it after all, and they want plugin developers and users to succeed, it's just down to us to make sure we're all as informed as possible and know how to use the tools (and to share that knowledge around).

fluffouille
12-17-2006, 01:48 AM
(someone should make sure that Cebas and NextLimit are aware of this too really... it almost needs a "so you want to bridge to your own render engine" section in the sdk docs).
Final Render already support all of the above, and they are greatly welcome from Maxon :)

lllab
12-17-2006, 01:16 PM
well, final render and nextlimit do not support 3rd party shaders;-)

cheers
Stefan

philhoole
12-17-2006, 02:18 PM
well, final render and nextlimit do not support 3rd party shaders;-)

cheers
Stefan

Does that mean that (for example) Darktree shaders would also work with your Vray bridge in principle? That would be cool!

I have a feeling that Darktree shaders don't work in R10 but you get my point.

lllab
12-17-2006, 02:38 PM
i am nor so familiar with darktree. id it is a shader that is used in ac hannel it might work, if it is a ´material like the old bhodinut shaders i think it will not.

but extra shaders like the enhenced 3d attack shader will work. there are also a lot of other 3rd party shaders available that are used in the channels...

and if i am not totally wrong even filters-channels might work then.

as said once again- thanks per- this is a very very nice extra for all users:-)

cheers
stefan

Continuumx
12-17-2006, 02:50 PM
well, final render and nextlimit do not support 3rd party shaders;-)

cheers
Stefan

Hello Stefan,

At the moment Maxwell supports C4D noise. I would think if the shader affects the color channel maxwell plugin can handle it. I'll test the colorchanger plugin when I have some time. As of right now, I am rendering!

I have rendered out textures from the free version of darktree via Maxwell, although I had to bake the texture, this is alright for a workflow - for the time being.

Here's a sponge render from one of the free darktree sponge textures that I tweaked:
http://digitecture.org/gallery/content/studies/simulated-materials/Natural-Sponge.jpg

LucentDreams
12-17-2006, 03:01 PM
[QUOTE=Continuumx]Hello Stefan,

At the moment Maxwell supports C4D noise. I will would think if the shader affects the color channel maxwell plugin can handle it. I'll test the colorchanger plugin when I have some time. As of right now, I am rendering!

I have rendered out textures from the free version of darktree via Maxwell, although I had to bake the texture, this is alright for a workflow - for the time being.
/QUOTE]

But thats the point, while yes may shaders can be baked, this is slightly different and would greatly improve the overall shader support for maxwell as well as improve the workflow.

RenatoT
12-17-2006, 03:47 PM
Hi all :)

Continuumx: Can i have this scene? :)

Cheers
Renato

Continuumx
12-17-2006, 03:56 PM
Hi all :)

Continuumx: Can i have this scene? :)

Cheers
Renato

Hello Renato,

This scene is actually a mxs file from Maxwell Render that Thomas An. developed. You can download the scene via the maxwell render site. Its only available in the maxwell render scene format. Do you want the texture?

RenatoT
12-17-2006, 04:03 PM
Hello Continuumx,

i'll like to have a the model to test some materials.

No probs :)
Renato T.

lllab
12-17-2006, 04:19 PM
Renato,
i send it you tomorrow, it just have to be converted to c4d.

also i am working on a good testscene for our materials libary:-)

cheers
stefan

p.s. i am back in the office in the morning, ...hear you tomorrow,:-)

helluvapixel
12-17-2006, 04:42 PM
well, final render and nextlimit do not support 3rd party shaders;-)

cheers
Stefan

??? finalRender has an SDK that you can develop any type of shader (within the limits of the SDK).

lllab
12-17-2006, 04:46 PM
..i meant for the user.
in vrayforc4d you just select a shader-also 3rd partyones- and render it!

cheers
stefan

p.s nothing against fr- i have it too- it it has a great shader tree:-)

georgedrakakis
12-17-2006, 07:18 PM
Hi all :)

Continuumx: Can i have this scene? :)

Cheers
Renato

hey RenatoT,
there is a similar test scene @ c4dtextures.com.

http://www.c4dtextures.com/uploads/mts.zip

cheers,
george

Continuumx
12-17-2006, 07:33 PM
Hello Continuumx,

i'll like to have a the model to test some materials.

No probs :)
Renato T.

Hello Renato,

There is the official vray materials scene in max format:

http://www.vray-materials.de/

Is there someone here that can convert the scene?

lllab
12-17-2006, 07:39 PM
thanks all,

i am already working on our own scene, or for internal, non public tests i rebuilt one similar to the maxwell scene , which is the best to me at the moment.

i guess thomas will not allow us to use his maxwell-scene, so i make a new one for our own:-)

cheers
stefan

Continuumx
12-17-2006, 07:42 PM
thanks all,

i am already working on our own scene, or for internal, non public tests i rebuilt one similar to the maxwell scene , which is the best to me at the moment.

i guess thomas will not allow us to use his maxwell-scene, so i make a new one for our own:-)

cheers
stefan

Great Illab, I would like to see more material test that you can show.

The maxwell scene is a maxwell render only scene that is only available "as is", no conversions, by the author, Thomas An.

lllab
12-17-2006, 07:54 PM
i am a maxwell user too- so i know,
but it is relatively easy to rebuilt in c4d, i know this scene rather well...

but as said i will make one for ourselves- i think every software should have its own;-)

cheers
stefan

p.s it is my plan anyway that after release is finished under materials.vrayforc4d.com we will have a c4d-vraytexture collections for and from us users, so i was working on such a scene anyway...

Per-Anders
12-17-2006, 09:01 PM
??? finalRender has an SDK that you can develop any type of shader (within the limits of the SDK).

He meant existing C4D 3rd party shaders (not ones specifically developed for fR or VRay or Maxwells own API's, but ones designed for C4D/AR's api, which is what this technique allows).

AdamT
12-17-2006, 11:24 PM
Not as easy as you might think to rebuild Thomas' scene (especially the UVs), but I gave it a shot. Scene is here (for R10): http://www.3danvil.com/material_scene/M~R_Material_Scn_Fake.rar
http://www.3danvil.com/material_scene/mat_scene.jpg

JDP
12-17-2006, 11:36 PM
??? finalRender has an SDK that you can develop any type of shader (within the limits of the SDK).

Have they actually released this sdk. It was one of the things I was excited about but as far as I am aware it has not surfaced yet.

georgedrakakis
12-18-2006, 02:04 PM
Not as easy as you might think to rebuild Thomas' scene (especially the UVs), but I gave it a shot. Scene is here (for R10):

there is always the ready-made scene (for c4d) @ c4dtextures.com

lllab
12-18-2006, 02:15 PM
Thanks georgedrakakis,

i have already made a nice scene, now i am calibrating it, that is the most work.
..made it a bit different to the original maxwell, so its suits best vray;-)

thanks for all the helping offers:-)

cheers
Stefan

georgedrakakis
12-18-2006, 04:07 PM
i wonder if the vray bridge will support the sky manager, or it will have it's own sky system with a (time-saver) preview available, as the sky manager does.

dan22
12-18-2006, 04:25 PM
One third party channel effect I sometimes use is Distance Falloff, in C4D9.1.
This may be superceeded by a different feature in later versions, I don't know, but if not, would Distance Falloff work in VRay for C4d, or is there a better solution nowadays?

Many thanks.

Cheers,

D.

lllab
12-18-2006, 05:18 PM
about sky i will have to test if this is a colorshader similar thing.

but vray comes with pysical sky similar to maxwell, with more adjustable parameters and beautiful light. it is superb from that point of view(no clouds yet so). it is a very cool feature.

distance fall of i will test too, just need the final built with the new functionality. i think there is also a similar finction in vray itself....

will show here.

cheers
stefan

SystemofaDown
12-18-2006, 06:58 PM
Will it support Shelac Materials (mixing two materials together)

lllab
12-18-2006, 07:03 PM
hi all,

here a small screenshot of our material testscene. a rough beta version, but it has most aspects i want to see from a material. it isnt 100% calibrated, and also has some geometry problems (modelled it in rhino because of the roundings-need to exprt with better tesselation).

it has quadrands of a sphere, flat parts, small rounded parts, reflections of lights, different thickness for sss and rough transparency and tranlucency.
will refine it more and more.

also you see the vray rame buffer, there you can adjust the unclamped(hdri) output with curves like in psd 32bit, a very nice an advanced tool , you can adjust this during rendertime or afterwards and save it of course in hdri or openxer format...

please dont judge the material, i just did a very very simpel metal(this is without any shader yet, just plain brdf) when i get the new testversion i show real materials.

screenshot:

http://www.vrayforc4d.com/screenshots/screenshot_material_001.jpg

cheers
stefan

georgedrakakis
12-18-2006, 07:29 PM
but vray comes with pysical sky similar to maxwell, with more adjustable parameters and beautiful light. it is superb from that point of view(no clouds yet so). it is a very cool feature.
cheers
stefan

that's really nice Stefan,
but is it possible to preview the vray-physical sky?
or to modify the north direction?
cheers,
george

kossoolli
12-18-2006, 08:17 PM
*sitting in corner and drinking my tea*

I think we should wait some weeks (or days?) and then there will be hundreds of beautifull previews.

AdamT
12-18-2006, 08:39 PM
hi all,

here a small screenshot of our material testscene. a rough beta version, but it has most aspects i want to see from a material. it isnt 100% calibrated, and also has some geometry problems (modelled it in rhino because of the roundings-need to exprt with better tesselation).

it has quadrands of a sphere, flat parts, small rounded parts, reflections of lights, different thickness for sss and rough transparency and tranlucency.
will refine it more and more.

also you see the vray rame buffer, there you can adjust the unclamped(hdri) output with curves like in psd 32bit, a very nice an advanced tool , you can adjust this during rendertime or afterwards and save it of course in hdri or openxer format...

please dont judge the material, i just did a very very simpel metal(this is without any shader yet, just plain brdf) when i get the new testversion i show real materials.

screenshot:

http://www.vrayforc4d.com/screenshots/screenshot_material_001.jpg

cheers
stefan
Cool scene, Stefan. Remember that the whole thing needs to have good UVs.

vid2k2
12-18-2006, 09:00 PM
[QUOTE=lllab]hi all,
(modelled it in rhino because of the roundings-need to exprt with better tesselation).

FWIW .........
Perhaps I'm too much of a purist, but, I think the model should be done in C4D rather
than Rhino. I see nothing there that can't be done in C4D as per my attachment :)

BTW, did I say I like the high tech machined look :)

williamsburroughs
12-18-2006, 09:59 PM
you are killing me over here. :) me want me want me want.

Do you guys need a case of vitamins and veggies and meats to keep you strong?

Keep up the great work!

osxman
12-19-2006, 11:50 PM
Looking at the Vray feature list (http://chaosgroup.com/software/vray/features/) 2 questions popped up (for Renato?):

1. Does "Extensible with custom geometric primitives through the V-Ray SDK" mean that you could make the "render perfect" setting for spheres work with Vray (FR2 is supposed to do this through some sort of "geometry shader")?

Or perhaps you've already fixed this? :)

I can see how this could be regarded as a low-priority request, but, although it might seem unnecessary to most of you, it would actually mean quite a lot for a couple of my future "art-:arteest:-projects".

2. Is there no support for Volumetric lights?

Also:

@Stefan:
Do you plan to end the preorder-offer before january?

Cheers,
Stéphane

RenatoT
12-22-2006, 02:18 AM
Hi All,

Here a "little" test of the Gi and some C4d shaders combined.

Cheers
Renato

http://www.tarabella.it/C4D/VrayForC4d/VrayTest01.jpg

georgedrakakis
12-22-2006, 02:57 AM
hey Renato,
aren't you sleeping at all? :)
could you also post some ies lighting setup?
cheers,
george

kossoolli
12-22-2006, 06:35 AM
Wonderfull! Could you post the rendertime please? By the way, are the blotches in the background artifacts or are these from the caustics :-)

lllab
12-22-2006, 12:06 PM
yes the combination of vraypower adn power of c4d shaders is really great!
this makes it for me better than the maxversion:-)

i am testing good and fast rendersettings at the moment, i will give a good number of presets for most common tasks, so that all people that are new to vray will be able to render good and artefact free:-)

one great set par example is to render only the gi pass in small resolution(800x600) and save it, and then render the scene at huge print size (8000x6000)very fast with the saved GI - in vray that works-without any artefacts!
in fact that us the way most pro vrayusers do it i know...

also you will get a good set of starter materials i provide like glas, metal, wood, concrete, etc, also with some of the excellent arroway textures for free.

preorder might end in a few weeks yes. we havent decided yet a date, but it can be that it end in mid-end january.

also i work on the new vrayforc4d page that have a lot more room for screenshots, info tutorials and other usefull stuff about vrayforc4d. it also will be open for release.

cheers
Stefan

georgedrakakis
12-22-2006, 12:18 PM
one great set par example is to render only the gi pass in small resolution(800x600) and save it, and then render the scene at huge print size (8000x6000)very fast with the saved GI - in vray that works-without any artefacts!
in fact that us the way most pro vrayusers do it i know...


hey Stefan,
that set is working with AR also.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=4084161&postcount=6
along with this tip:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=4071674&postcount=95
a c4d script would be handy.

is this procedure automated in vray bridge?

btw, i dloaded yesterday an evaluation version of Vray for Sketchup
to test and get to know the render engine.
Sketchup is a powerfull modeler for architects, also in evaluation version.

ps: Stefan, i think your pm list is full, and you can't get new pm's :)

cheers,
george.

lllab
12-22-2006, 02:22 PM
hi,
i tried this set in c4d over years. while it is possible it doesnt bring much speed gain and much quality loss sadly.

vray is very amazing in this, this method really can saves hours in rendertime, and i havent seen remarable qualiy loss yet, you will like it....:-)
it is not automated, but there is a button where you can say that you only render gi passes and save automaticly. the you just set your new resolution and set the gi to use the file instead, just a few clicks thats it:-)

i am a bit in christmas hurry, my sons are waiting for me...

cheers
Stefan

p.s. just got my new release with most of the c4d shaders working- this is cool:-)

georgedrakakis
12-22-2006, 03:08 PM
hi Stefan,
stop posting and be with your kids :)
i am also waiting for mine!
merry christmas to all!

osxman
12-22-2006, 03:15 PM
hi Stefan,
stop posting and be with your kids :)
i am also waiting for mine!
merry christmas to all!
Although I have no kids, I agree :).

And thanks for the update!

Merry Christmas everyone,
Ho, ho,
Stéphane

lllab
12-22-2006, 03:37 PM
Merry Christmas or Happy Hollidays to all:-)

cheers
Stefan

nycL45
12-22-2006, 04:08 PM
Thanks and the same to you, Stefan.

kossoolli
12-22-2006, 07:24 PM
Can you provide some carpiant shaders?

ThePriest
12-22-2006, 08:44 PM
If there's some way to easily export VRay materials out of Max, access to the VRay shaders website would prove very beneficial.


Amazing work so far.

scanmead
12-22-2006, 10:43 PM
ooOOooo...pretty/shiny, Renato! Cinema+VRay has got to be absolute Nirvana .. at least for those of us who are easily mezmorized by pretty/shiny.... now wiping the drool off the keyboard. ;)

Shane W
12-23-2006, 04:29 AM
yes one great set par example is to render only the gi pass in small resolution(800x600) and save it, and then render the scene at huge print size (8000x6000)very fast with the saved GI - in vray that works-without any artefacts!
in fact that us the way most pro vrayusers do it i know...

Stefan

Hi lllab, You will loose detail using that technique. You don't need to go to the trouble of doing the two step process if you just lower your settings. Are you using Irradiance map/Quasi-Monte Carlo? You can double your irradiance map min/max settings every time your resolution doubles and save render time. Will the Cinema version support most of the standard GI features like detail enhancement, Color mapping etc? Also will displacement be handled by Cinema or Vray's displacement modifier? Will Vray proxies be supported? Sorry for all the questions, I am just very curious/excited.

-Shane

JDP
12-23-2006, 06:01 AM
preorder might end in a few weeks yes. we havent decided yet a date, but it can be that it end in mid-end january.

cheers
Stefan

Stefan, I sent in a preorder just over a week ago and haven't heard back from you, just want to double check that you got it, the email address starts with jdes3d, don't want to miss out. :)

cheers,
JDP

RenatoT
12-25-2006, 07:21 AM
Merry Christmas to all from the VrayForC4d development staff :)

Renato T.

ngrava
12-25-2006, 09:21 AM
Merry Christmas to all from the VrayForC4d development staff :)

Renato T.

Merry Christmas to you too Renato!

-=GB=-

nycL45
12-25-2006, 01:59 PM
And a very Merry Christmas to you Renato and Stefan and all other staff members. Thanks for all the hard work and keeping our spirits high about VrayforC4d.

Peace in 2007.

JDP
12-25-2006, 05:08 PM
And a Merry Christmas to you all.

vesalus
01-02-2007, 09:23 PM
happy new year to the vrayforc4d team, 2007 will be your year i believe :)

shtl
01-02-2007, 10:25 PM
Yeah happy new year to all of you and espacially the Vray4c4D team:
2007 will also be our year :))

jph
01-04-2007, 02:55 PM
Not sure if it has been mentioned before...

Just asked Stefan whether c4d vray would be able to import vray max shaders..., he said they are working on it. So if it works out c4d vray would have a huge database on shaders already! This in itself is a huge argument and time saver....

He also mentioned that they will almost be able to all shaders based on the cinema sdk..., which is great (and has been mentioned before in this thread...)

_______
here is the original german email:

Hi stefan,

Bei vray for rhino funktionieren die vray 3D max materialien noch nicht..., wird es der cinema Vray version möglich sein auf die bestehenden vray shader zuzugreifen?

ciao Jan


ja, wir arbeiten drann, auf jedenfall alle die in unserem sdk verhanden sind, weiss nicht ob es 100% alle sind, aber fast alle. in updates sicher alle(Vlado arbeitet auch darann die shader ins sdk zu übersetzen...)
cheers
stefan

______

ciao Jan

lllab
01-04-2007, 03:20 PM
Hi Jan, sorry you missunderstood some parts:

1) we are working on adding all vray shaders, i didnt say anything about importing maxshaders. but there will be a vray shader collective place with a good shaderpool under www.materials.vrayforc4d.com. i will try to convert as much as possible maxvrayshaders.
but please understand that shaders that uses maxprodceduals cannot be translated directly.

2) i said that we will add all the shaders of the VRAY sdk! (not cinema).

all normal cinema4d shaders are already supported. special "hacks" like the bhodinut will not work (lumas, danel,etc). fresnel and falloffs dont work yet, but Renato sad he will make them running to:-) so most c4d shaders work nativly already, but i was talking about additional vrayshaders:-)

just to correct the things above...
cheers

Stefan

jph
01-04-2007, 03:30 PM
...sorry...

...still good news though...

(I guess it is quite anoying to react to all that communication porpperly, ..., at t least there is some valid info -on this particular subject- out now)

ciao jan

osxman
01-04-2007, 05:33 PM
Looking at the Vray feature list (http://chaosgroup.com/software/vray/features/) 2 questions popped up (for Renato?):

1. Does "Extensible with custom geometric primitives through the V-Ray SDK" mean that you could make the "render perfect" setting for spheres work with Vray (FR2 is supposed to do this through some sort of "geometry shader")?

Or perhaps you've already fixed this? :)...

...2. Doesn't VRay (and subsequently, the bridge) support Volumetric lights?... [edit: rephrased question]

...Cheers,
StéphaneJust asking again, incase you missed it Renato.

Also, since you've changed (from the original plan) the bridge to make the renderengine directly integrated into C4D – will scenes need double (or is it triple?) the "original" memory when rendering with VRay (like FR2 does)?

If so, will it still be possible to export scenes to a "VRay-format" and run them in VRay standalone without C4D running (to lower memory requirements)?

Cheers,
Stéphane

lllab
01-04-2007, 09:14 PM
Hi Osxman:

for perfect sphere you must use Fr, it is not supported at the monent, maybe later, i ask Renato.
vray , also the maxversion has no volume lights at the moment, sorry. it is on the wishlist for vlado on chaosgroup forum though.

in the standalone you cannot render as the standalone has no interface and "visible" functions. it is only visible through the framebuffer.
regarding memory this isnt necesarry, i already made tests with rendering huge files (half of franfurt city with a big skyscraper and it render very well in vray) so it has no problems with memory anyway. you can export to vraymesh if you really want though, yes.

cheers
stefan

osxman
01-04-2007, 09:32 PM
Hi Osxman:

for perfect sphere you must use Fr, it is not supported at the monent, maybe later, i ask Renato.I'll be right "here" waiting for his answer ;).

vray , also the maxversion has no volume lights at the moment, sorry. it is on the wishlist for vlado on chaosgroup forum though.Hmmm :hmm: – well you can't have everything I guess. I can't imagine Vlado ignoring this forever though...

regarding memory this isnt necesarry, i already made tests with rendering huge files (half of franfurt city with a big skyscraper and it render very well in vray) so it has no problems with memory anyway...Sounds great! :thumbsup:.

Thanks Stefan,
Stéphane

osxman
01-09-2007, 12:18 AM
for perfect sphere you must use Fr, it is not supported at the monent, maybe later, i ask Renato.Just a friendly reminder :) (to ask Renato).

lllab
01-09-2007, 09:19 AM
Hi osxman,

please some patience, we cant say that now. it depends on a lot of things and at the moment we have a long to to list for the last features and we need to solve the new c4d shader support.

my i ask why a perfect sphere is so important? i never used that (well i seldom render spheres)? i just increased the tesselation, i never ran out of memory in vray until now, also with big scenes:-)

cheers
Stefan

fluffouille
01-09-2007, 12:31 PM
Indeed, shader support is way more important for now, I think.

georgedrakakis
01-09-2007, 02:00 PM
Hi osxman,
and we need to solve the new c4d shader support.


hi Stefan,
what does this new c4d shader support mean?
is has to do with how vraybridge handles c4d shaders (a new approach?),
or is it something that maxon is planning to do on a next release?
cheers,
geogre

lllab
01-09-2007, 02:42 PM
Hi,

please read the posts before, yes this might be the possibility to support most existing c4d shaders- that wasnt meant initially planned. some addintions to c4d9.6sdk made this possible.

this we mentioned before christmas - that we found, thanks to Per and Renato, a way to support most "normal" c4d shaders. at least we work on it, it needs some points of info from maxon still, i hope we get this soon.

so layershader, noise, tiles, enhenced c4d shaders from 3d attack, filtershaders, etc might work for release:-)

cheers
Stefan

georgedrakakis
01-09-2007, 02:55 PM
it's getting better & better..:thumbsup:

osxman
01-09-2007, 02:55 PM
Hi osxman,

please some patience, we cant say that now. it depends on a lot of things and at the moment we have a long to to list for the last features and we need to solve the new c4d shader support.

my i ask why a perfect sphere is so important? i never used that (well i seldom render spheres)? i just increased the tesselation, i never ran out of memory in vray until now, also with big scenes:-)

cheers
Stefan
Sorry for nagging Stefan. I didn't realize that it was that complex. I'll try to be more patient ;).

About why it's "so" important:
I've had a couple of "projects lying in my drawer" for quite some time now (waiting for something like FR2 or Vray) that involves rendering 20000-60000 spheres at print-resolution (minimum 4000x6000 px).

Doing this with the required tesselation easily ends up with a 8-figure polygon-count. Cinema handles this very well with "render perfect" (as a sphere then equals 1 poly in memory when rendering) but the GI quality/rendering time (and the DOF) doesn't cut it.

Other than that – being a hobbyist CG/Graphic artist, selling prints and having, a perhaps perverse passion for spheres – I find that "perfect spheres", compared to tesselated ones, are a lot faster to render, always look perfect and have exact measurements.

But if you're saying that VRay can handle a, say 40-60 mil. polygon scene, on a 2,5-4,5 GB RAM machine, within reasonable time (better than AR), that's OK with me (ARE you saying that!? :bounce: ).

Indeed, shader support is way more important for now, I think.
I definitely agree. I't's just that those juicy screenshots we have been shown led me to believe that that part was almost finished.

----
Stéphane

ngrava
01-10-2007, 11:05 PM
Hey osxman,

In Max, Vray supports "proxy" objects. So, you can make a sphere and save it as a vraymesh file then reload those meshes as instances of the original and add as many as you want. Since they are just a reference to the original model, they don't take up any additional memory. I don't know if this will show up in the first version of VrayforC4D or not but you can be assured that Vray it's self supports it.

lllab
01-11-2007, 09:56 AM
"I definitely agree. I't's just that those juicy screenshots we have been shown led me to believe that that part was almost finished."

it is -almost!
we need a tiny bit of help from maxon for this still. some parts with the mapping arent doing right yet with c4d shaders.

the proxs support is definitly higher on our list, yes:-)
cheers
Stefan

osxman
01-11-2007, 10:57 AM
the proxs support is definitly higher on our list, yes:-)
OK, in that case you've got me of your back about the "render perfect" option (well at least for a while ;))!

kossoolli
01-11-2007, 12:26 PM
How does instancing work (in Vray or C4D)? How is it possible that it doesn't make a difference in memory or calcualtion speed if theres one sphere or ten thousand spheres?

lllab
01-11-2007, 05:14 PM
vray proxy-instances are real instances. you can render millions of trees with it p.e. also with lower memory.

cheers
stefan

kossoolli
01-11-2007, 07:51 PM
Yes, but how does it work in detail? Does it just copy the sphere? Can't imagine this, this would mean a higher memory consumption with every sphere. I am curious...

Shane W
01-11-2007, 08:02 PM
Hi kosso_olli,

Here are a couple links you might want to check out.

http://www.spot3d.com/vray/help/150R1/vrayproxy_params.htm

http://www.evermotion.org/index.php?unfold_exclusive=120&unfold=exclusive


-Shane

kossoolli
01-19-2007, 07:08 AM
Any news? Isn't it time for a website-update?

belushy
01-19-2007, 08:43 AM
before the storm

vesalus
01-19-2007, 09:15 AM
theres always silence before the storm

sure, be we are probably a lot whishing to see more drops before the rain, not to mention that we'd like to have a meteo bulletin also ;)

nycL45
01-19-2007, 02:29 PM
Got my ear to the ground.

AdamT
01-19-2007, 08:55 PM
dupl. post

AdamT
01-19-2007, 08:55 PM
Just noticed--over 35,000 views of this thread! :eek:

vesalus
01-20-2007, 12:48 PM
the least we could deduct from so much visit is that the connection with vray is quite expected :D

any hints for a release date from the vrayforc4d team? :)

Ernest Burden
01-20-2007, 03:53 PM
Just noticed--over 35,000 views of this thread! :eek:
Yeah, but that's from you, me and 33 other people.

georgedrakakis
01-20-2007, 04:20 PM
you can view but you cannot touch...

RenatoT
01-21-2007, 01:17 PM
Yeah, but that's from you, me and 33 other people.

Hi all,

Ernest: do you have count it all? :) if so i must stop development now eheh

Cheers
Renato

Ernest Burden
01-21-2007, 02:44 PM
Ernest: do you have count it all? :) if so i must stop development now eheh

No, no. I made a joke. Are you comfortable, can I bring you a cup of coffee? You do such fine work, you are a saint of code.

sketchbook
01-21-2007, 02:50 PM
Yeah, but that's from you, me and 33 other people.

hehe. it's the first thing i look for in the morning.

jph
01-21-2007, 10:17 PM
Yeah, but that's from you, me and 33 other people.


BOOOOY, those 33 people are constantly on this page, reading the same posts over and over again...., and making the 36.000th hit in amatter of hours...


p.s. count me in! I wanna be #34...

ciao jan

lllab
01-22-2007, 11:02 AM
i get about 35 emails a day, asking for vrayforc4d:-)
even from max users;-)

cheers
Stefan

kossoolli
01-22-2007, 01:27 PM
Well, your last post doesn't tell us anything about the progress of VrayforC4D. Has the betatest started yet? Are there any problems to fix? Is everything working as expected? Come on man, say something.
I think you could sell much more copies of VrayforC4D if you would keep us updated :-)

belushy
01-22-2007, 01:39 PM
@kosso_olli:
As i cannot tell you, this might be already an answer.

Ernest Burden
01-22-2007, 01:51 PM
I'm willing to trust the people involved in this product bridge. Their reputations suggest we are in good hands and if there was going to be a major roadblock they would tell us the project was in danger.

georgedrakakis
01-22-2007, 02:41 PM
btw, i like your new site Stefan, very good indeed.
and i must say i am impressed by your architectural skills.
keep it up :thumbsup: