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sketchbook
04-21-2006, 02:10 AM
hi all,

i know some of you eitehr have purchased this and was wondering if it's usable? i just talked to someone who is using it with great success (if you have time to wait 12 hours for a render). what are your opinions?

is it worth investing in for add jobs here and there? is it stable and does it work well on a mac?

thanks

Matariki
04-21-2006, 07:49 AM
I admit it, I am one of those who got it. Version 1.0 final is apparently coming out on the 26. April. Apparently because one has to be careful with these kind of statements :-[

I use it on a mac, when I use it. I have done some very nice picts but due to the idiosyncrasies of the plugin-renderer interface, particularly the materials editor, have I not used it that much. You can create very nice lit picts but I haven't got the time to sort out a software interface that is in motion. I therefore have decided to wait till the final release and then when the software has stabilized I'll use it. Till then I doodle occasionally.

vesalus
04-21-2006, 08:24 AM
hi, at the current state of the plug in the fact is that its quite boring to set things up if you 've got complex scene to get all your objects ready to render, but as matariki said we'll have to wait the release next week (if theres no further delays) to see if the cinema plug has been updated efficiently ( things like stacked material for exemple) but i maintain that its a promising app, just check the maxwellwebsite to see whats coming, thing like their emixer function EMIXER (http://www.maxwellrender.com/files/Emixer_IF.avi) is so promising :bounce:

for the production part,sure its quite slow to render but quite fast for setting up the light, if you've got the money you can still stack a bunch of computers and MERGE MULTIPLE MXI, that means that you could render the same image on a bunch of computer for one hour for example and then mix all images to get the best result as if it had render for hours on one...

anyway, we do have 4 renderer at our disposal from cinema, the default one, AR, Final render and Maxwell, it remains available toolset, we'll see and talkback in the coming weeks :)

Opelfruits
04-21-2006, 12:00 PM
wait 5 days and then lurk around the forums to see how many bugs there are in version 1

seco7
04-21-2006, 12:57 PM
I concur with all the above statements ...

12 hours to render, I wish it was only 12 hours. Maxwell seems to take a huge hit on render size. We do a large amount of work for print and large format and I'm not sure even v1.0 will be able to render much larger than 3000 x 2000 depending on the complexity of the scene. A beta tester did mention memory management was improved in v1.0 and he was able to render a pretty simple scene at something like 3500 x 2500.

In short, my opinion is that it will be a v1.0 software that has had a rough development cycle and all that intails.

sketchbook
04-21-2006, 03:38 PM
yeah, i would post on the maxwell forum but they will not allow it being that i have not paid for the beta version.

thanks for the help everyone. it does look promising.

i would love to set lights up and not have to worry about tweaking this and that, bla bla bla.

AdamT
04-21-2006, 03:44 PM
I concur with all the above statements ...

12 hours to render, I wish it was only 12 hours. Maxwell seems to take a huge hit on render size. We do a large amount of work for print and large format and I'm not sure even v1.0 will be able to render much larger than 3000 x 2000 depending on the complexity of the scene. A beta tester did mention memory management was improved in v1.0 and he was able to render a pretty simple scene at something like 3500 x 2500.

In short, my opinion is that it will be a v1.0 software that has had a rough development cycle and all that intails.
It depends a lot on the type of scene. Interiors at print resoution can *easily* take over 100 hours, and that's not likely to change with 1.0.

Image size is another big question mark. NL claims they've done very big renders, but someone asked them what type of scenes they rendered, and whether it could handle high-poly scenes at large sizes, and there was no response. Usually when that happens it means the answer is "no", but NL doesn't want to admit it.

lllab
04-21-2006, 03:48 PM
well, without a rendeerfarm forget it...

cheers
stefan

seco7
04-21-2006, 04:50 PM
well, without a rendeerfarm forget it...

cheers
stefan

That is what I'm banking on too. Sorry to threadjack, but I did have a network render question I have never gotten a straight answer to...

I might have missed something, but has anyone read anything conclusive about the impact of each cpu on the final render quality in a farm setting? I read that the impact of each cpu in the farm has a relatively small 10% hit each, but I mean render quality. My understanding is that in this implementation each cpu works on the same scene in its entirety with the hope(?) that in combining the lower sl images together, they produce a cleaner image. But to what degree? Do two renders to sl 10 equal a sl 20 render? I don't know Maxwell inside out or anything, but I do know some aspects (caustics, complex reflections, etc) don't show up until the higher sl's. Realistically, would you still need to run each render to 18 -20 range on each cpu to get a complete image?

AdamT
04-21-2006, 06:18 PM
That is what I'm banking on too. Sorry to threadjack, but I did have a network render question I have never gotten a straight answer to...

I might have missed something, but has anyone read anything conclusive about the impact of each cpu on the final render quality in a farm setting? I read that the impact of each cpu in the farm has a relatively small 10% hit each, but I mean render quality. My understanding is that in this implementation each cpu works on the same scene in its entirety with the hope(?) that in combining the lower sl images together, they produce a cleaner image. But to what degree? Do two renders to sl 10 equal a sl 20 render? I don't know Maxwell inside out or anything, but I do know some aspects (caustics, complex reflections, etc) don't show up until the higher sl's. Realistically, would you still need to run each render to 18 -20 range on each cpu to get a complete image?
According to NL, the combined effect doesn't require that each render reach the same level, and they also claim that two equal computers rendering a frame for one hour is very close to one computer rendering it for two hours. Not so easy to translate into sample levels, as they progress arithmatically rather than in a linear fashion (each new levels takes twice as long to render as the previous level).

Even if you have 100 computers and they each only reach level 2, you should still get good caustic effects because the combining process involves more than a simple blending of noises. I think that's true, as I saw something of this in one of the few net renders I was able to complete in the beta (they crashed 9/10 times).

sketchbook
04-21-2006, 07:17 PM
over 100 hours?

it's one thing to render a pretty bathroom with 5 objects, or a room with a couple pieces of furniture, but my renders are 5000 square foot fully merchadised retail spaces. thousands and thousands of small shoes, apparel, etc. all with fairly heavy poly counts.

i can barely get AR to render half the time.

AdamT
04-21-2006, 07:27 PM
over 100 hours?

it's one thing to render a pretty bathroom with 5 objects, or a room with a couple pieces of furniture, but my renders are 5000 square foot fully merchadised retail spaces. thousands and thousands of small shoes, apparel, etc. all with fairly heavy poly counts.

i can barely get AR to render half the time.
Eek, I'm thinking Maxwell is not for you. It's not that slow for product rendering and some exteriors, but interiors, especially with very heavy scenes ... not so much.

OTOH, if you can wait 3-4 days it looks damned good. :)

flingster
04-21-2006, 09:33 PM
It depends a lot on the type of scene. Interiors at print resoution can *easily* take over 100 hours, and that's not likely to change with 1.0.

Image size is another big question mark. NL claims they've done very big renders, but someone asked them what type of scenes they rendered, and whether it could handle high-poly scenes at large sizes, and there was no response. Usually when that happens it means the answer is "no", but NL doesn't want to admit it.

do you know what this was one of the big things i wrote and asked them about pre-purchase so i'm v dissappointed about that...also whatever happened to displacement another thing i wrote and asked about?

btw what codec is that emixer thing in? a link anyone?

Opelfruits
04-22-2006, 06:54 AM
they are keeping quiet about displacement, and i think this is the codec http://www.techsmith.com/download/codecs.asp

AdamT
04-22-2006, 01:16 PM
Well, it's clear that displacement won't be in v1.0, and it's not even listed as an item for a 1.x update. OTOH, NL's rep said that listed 1.x features aren't exclusive, so it's possible.

Ernest Burden
04-22-2006, 01:30 PM
Well, it's clear that displacement won't be in v1.0, and it's not even listed as an item for a 1.x update.

Does the new MoGraph module in Cinema allow for 'baking' SPD? I realize its not exactly the best way to get displacement out of Maxwell, but will we have the 'brute force' option with C4D?

JamesMK
04-22-2006, 01:40 PM
Does the new MoGraph module in Cinema allow for 'baking' SPD? I realize its not exactly the best way to get displacement out of Maxwell, but will we have the 'brute force' option with C4D?
Basically, yes, you can bake displacement using the Displace deformer and a 'current state to object'



.

Ernest Burden
04-22-2006, 03:29 PM
Basically, yes, you can bake displacement using the Displace deformer and a 'current state to object'

That's really good to know. Thank you! I look forward to buying the module for many reasons, but that's high on my list.

And depending on what functions can be built into a vRay bridge, 'state to object' on displacement could be useful for that engine, as well. Though I'm going OT to the thread.

ooo
04-22-2006, 08:20 PM
So is this displacement deformer any different than the existing options like displaceview/ditools/dpit? would be interesting!

odo

AdamT
04-24-2006, 05:24 AM
So is this displacement deformer any different than the existing options like displaceview/ditools/dpit? would be interesting!
It's a hella lot faster for one thing. It also has all of the falloff options available in MoGraph.

ooo
04-24-2006, 07:26 AM
Ok I know it's the wrong thread, but that sounds really great. Thanks Adam!

odo

dann_stubbs
04-26-2006, 05:34 PM
wasn't today the next date for a maxwell release? i seem to remember the emails i got last week stating so. (and also the freebie licenses being given out too i think)

dann

Opelfruits
04-26-2006, 05:38 PM
wasn't today the next date for a maxwell release? i seem to remember the emails i got last week stating so. (and also the freebie licenses being given out too i think)

dann

next limit like to use every last minute of the day for releasing something, it will probably be close to spanish midnight before they release it

jackb602
04-26-2006, 07:38 PM
It's now almost 10pm in Madrid. If it isn't ready now, it ain't ready.

Jack

seco7
04-26-2006, 07:43 PM
It's now almost 10pm in Madrid. If it isn't ready now, it ain't ready.

Jack

I really thought this time would be different ... stupid me. Anyone have any swamp land to sell, will trade for "lighting simulator".

EDIT: Is the Maxwell forum going down a good sign or a bad sign?

jackb602
04-26-2006, 07:48 PM
EDIT: Is the Maxwell forum going down a good sign or a bad sign?

They're just banning the few paying customers they hadn't gotten around to yet.

seco7
04-26-2006, 07:59 PM
My optomistic side is leaning toward them releasing v1.0 and re-organizing the message boards all at the same time. Starting off with a clean slate. Why they wouldn't annouce this ahead of time to reduce frustration, I don't know.

The pessimistic side says that they are completely over there heads, a horrible company, and we are looking at another 3 months of development to implement the FAT light flares.

nycL45
04-26-2006, 08:19 PM
I got banned from the forum for needling about NL's approach to business ethics and methods but, I have a feeling something is going to pop out of there in the next two hours couched in their unique style of flare. The proof is in the pudding - that is let the pros use it for a few days to see what they have hatched. One thing is they have taken the spirit out of the release for many on the euro side, tho.

BeccoUK
04-26-2006, 09:47 PM
Turn on Advanced Renders global illumination with high quality settings, throw in some some blurry reflections and sprinke some good caustic settings and Maxwell compares very well in terms of render speed and is mostly better with image quality. For a good quick simple render though, its probably better to stick with AR.

As a slight aside, only the management of Next Limit could botch up release of Maxwell 1.0 today. As usual they treat customers with contempt and disreguard. Perhaps things will be better for the release of Maxwell 2.0

seco7
04-26-2006, 11:28 PM
Turn on Advanced Renders global illumination with high quality settings, throw in some some blurry reflections and sprinke some good caustic settings and Maxwell compares very well in terms of render speed and is mostly better with image quality. For a good quick simple render though, its probably better to stick with AR.

I really don't want to get into an AR versus Maxwell discussion and I agree about the quality of Maxwell in terms of doing what it does, but the speed I just don't see. The simple cornel box example from 1.0 the other day rendered for 10 hours at a low rez and still had noise. I've had interior scenes render for days in Maxwell that never really cooked long enough with the same scene in AR at about 2, maybe 2.5 hours with everything cranked up (no optimizing the GI settings). I mention this because I keep thinking it is something I'm doing in Maxwell to get such slow renders. I don't think so, but, maybe it is just me.

I cannot wait to try v1.0, though it looks like to download will take all evening...

Steve

macray411
04-27-2006, 01:47 PM
I bought Maxwell more than a year ago, when it was still cheap compared to today, but it has not much changed since then considering the time they had.


The final version works, but still has a lot to do on it. Especially using the PlugIns for Cinema (I see all the topics popping up in the maxwell forum considering other plugins and m~w studio.).
They couldn't even rename the plugin to v.1. It still has the name Maxwell Render for Cinema4D 0.7b.
There are still some issues and problems to be solved but it works. The AGS is working as well and also the problem with the sun is solved - it is accepting month settings now.

I'm not satisfied with it and for me this is really RC and not final version 1.0. They did a good job and Maxwell can do a lot and gives very fine results, but for a final release... I don't know.

BeccoUK
04-27-2006, 01:54 PM
I agree that this render engine is better than that one is pretty much a waste of time. They all have strengths and weaknesses. The biggest weakness with Maxwell is the way its development has been ineptly managed. Perhaps Maxon should buy Maxwell from Next Limit and develop the thing properly.

seco7
04-27-2006, 03:11 PM
I agree that this render engine is better than that one is pretty much a waste of time. They all have strengths and weaknesses. The biggest weakness with Maxwell is the way its development has been ineptly managed. Perhaps Maxon should buy Maxwell from Next Limit and develop the thing properly.

I completely agree.

dann_stubbs
04-27-2006, 04:20 PM
has anybody managed to get it downloaded and installed yet?

i tried about 3am but the server was so slow to get in i just figured i'd try later

dann

Other3DMaster
04-27-2006, 04:48 PM
couldn't tell you... as the mac version has been listed as "available in a couple of hours"... it was listed that way last night, and still was this morning...

so again, nl to mac users... you are not the first on our list... no, i'm not surprised... but come on, how can you say this is the official release for both platforms... then tell the mac users... oh, but not for you... you wait a couple of extra days...

nl is truly the most ass backwards company i have ever had the displeasure of dealing with

ThePriest
04-27-2006, 07:08 PM
Downloaded and installed last night, works like a charm. But the intergration is still poor in Cinema, much nicer to work with exported models in Max, if you have it.

ooo
04-27-2006, 09:03 PM
We should be happy now, shouldn't we?
I still don't know if i will use my time to download this thing, or that I forget about this alltogether. Do I really want to use this thing? I think I'll put my faith in VRAY4C4D. Ok, now I feel happy! :)

odo

Matariki
04-27-2006, 09:11 PM
We should be happy now, shouldn't we?
I still don't know if i will use my time to download this thing, or that I forget about this alltogether. Do I really want to use this thing? I think I'll put my faith in VRAY4C4D. Ok, no I feel happy! :)

odo

Couldn't agree more. I too will wait for vray. M~R will probably be a professional product by the time vray4c4d will be available. I know I am an optimist :lol:

Continuumx
04-28-2006, 03:46 AM
Installed and working fine here!

BeccoUK
04-28-2006, 08:37 AM
The Maxwell fiasco continues. I can still ony download at a speed of 1.69KB/Sec which I find very insulting and would take an estimated 11.5 hours to download so I'm not bothering. It seems that friends of friends are doing some unauthorised distribution - real school playground stuff this.

Never again will I commit to pre-ordering software from an unknown quantity. Looking back I would have sooner waited and then determined if Maxwell was worth paying full price for. Which personally I don't find justifies a price tag of almost $1000.

iamjens
04-28-2006, 09:43 AM
is not worth to download maxwell. renderspeed and everything else sucks, still much more noise.

bye

Matariki
04-28-2006, 10:11 AM
the downloading fiasco is another example of NLs excellent customer relationship. I wouldn't have expected anything less.

But this

is not worth to download maxwell. renderspeed and everything else sucks, still much more noise.

bye

is a generalization. You can make very nice renders. Ok, they take longer but the results I've seen done by others and a few things I've done were very good. Ok, I can't speak for the new latest beta version.

It is not the rendering that takes long, downloading the renderer takes long. :-[

Continuumx
04-28-2006, 01:29 PM
Give it some time guys, there are a lot of people downloading this and there were some huge texture packs made available so you can imagine this is quite unprecedented.

Maxwell has proven its worth through its quality, noise is not an issue in the test that I have seen and conducted with others. I find this interesting when you have not installed V1 yet. But that is fine, Maxwell Render will be fine, as there are others who have the wherewithall to understand that unlike some of the other render engines, this one has a huge user base that spans multiple platforms software wise and os-wise.

I am actually quite pleased with this 1.0 release, it is powerful, you actually have a lot of a toolset under the hood that you may not be aware of. Where else can you render full ior files?

I understand that a lot of you are not happy, have not been this way for some time about Maxwell Render, but it is not going to change the software. The developers understand how you feel, and I can guarantee you that they are already on the ball to not let up on what has been accomplished so far with this 1.0 release, expect to see much more!

ooo
04-28-2006, 01:49 PM
Whoever is happy with this be happy! I'm not happy, but that's my problem.
BTW does anybody know if it possible to transfer or sell my license (or two if I accept NL's goodwill-gesture)? Whatever is promised, I have no confidence in a healthy future for MW so that means my license will gather a lot of dust here. So if it is possible to sell this, it would make me happy again. :)

odo

Continuumx
04-28-2006, 02:52 PM
Whoever is happy with this be happy! I'm not happy, but that's my problem.
BTW does anybody know if it possible to transfer or sell my license (or two if I accept NL's goodwill-gesture)? Whatever is promised, I have no confidence in a healthy future for MW so that means my license will gather a lot of dust here. So if it is possible to sell this, it would make me happy again. :)

odo

You should take this up with support at the maxwell render website, I doubt you will get an answer from anyone on the sales staff of Next Limit from this forum. That pretty much goes for any software.

ooo
04-28-2006, 03:00 PM
Thanks Tyrone, I mailed the salesdept to find out.

odo

Rochr
04-28-2006, 07:44 PM
Usable for simpler scenes, but almost useless for anything complex.
The biggest limitation right now is rendersize. If you need high quality prints, you can pretty much forget about Maxwell, at least until NL make hd-option available god knows when.

dann_stubbs
05-30-2006, 08:51 PM
Usable for simpler scenes, but almost useless for anything complex.
The biggest limitation right now is rendersize. If you need high quality prints, you can pretty much forget about Maxwell, at least until NL make hd-option available god knows when.

anybody get their "bonus" maxwell license yet?

what the heck is up with that? that should have been an easy promise for them to fulfill yet they still seem to have dropped the ball on that!

anybody get theirs?

dann

AdamT
05-30-2006, 09:09 PM
anybody get their "bonus" maxwell license yet?

what the heck is up with that? that should have been an easy promise for them to fulfill yet they still seem to have dropped the ball on that!

anybody get theirs?

dann
I just got mine this morning.

flingster
05-30-2006, 10:23 PM
anybody get their "bonus" maxwell license yet?

what the heck is up with that? that should have been an easy promise for them to fulfill yet they still seem to have dropped the ball on that!

anybody get theirs?

dann

i got it pretty soon after i asked for it a few weeks ago now i think as they also sent an email out saying you'd be out of time or at least thats the way i read between the lines.

dann_stubbs
05-30-2006, 10:44 PM
i got it pretty soon after i asked for it a few weeks ago now i think as they also sent an email out saying you'd be out of time or at least thats the way i read between the lines.

i sent my original request on april 7, and a follow up on may 8. so i just sent another follow up today... i guess if adamt just got his maybe it is still in progress... i just like to get these things done and "off the plate" of things to try to remember.

any updates on the distributed rendering anybody?

dann

Ernest Burden
05-31-2006, 01:17 AM
I never even bothered to ask for it. Them, actually.

AdamT
05-31-2006, 04:33 AM
Nothing new on distributed rendering AFAIK. They announced that they've made a bunch of improvements to the C4D plugin, but for some reason they're not going release it until Maxwell version 1.x is out. :/ Meanwhile they've already released updates to 2-3 plugins.

Rochr
05-31-2006, 04:46 AM
The same old story.
Itīs probably going to be some bs update (ability to switch color on the tags or similar) while Studio suddenly have 5 completely new features nobody but the most fanatic fanboys ask for.
And theyīll probably break something thatīs working today in the process.

flingster
05-31-2006, 09:02 PM
The same old story.
Itīs probably going to be some bs update (ability to switch color on the tags or similar) while Studio suddenly have 5 completely new features nobody but the most fanatic fanboys ask for.
And theyīll probably break something thatīs working today in the process.


ah another disappointed fan i see...heh heh. but some of what you say obviously rings true from previous experience on all things maxwell release related...

vesalus
05-31-2006, 10:30 PM
still waiting for the license but anyway the cinemaplug doesnt allow to work with the stuff in production condition... ( not to mention the rendertimes )

dann_stubbs
05-31-2006, 10:51 PM
still waiting for the license but anyway the cinemaplug doesnt allow to work with the stuff in production condition... ( not to mention the rendertimes )

i sent maya at next limit an email and today got a prompt response and my updated license.

for me nextlimit has always been pretty good at responsiveness - i'll just assume my update request was misplaced in the shuffle which can happen...

i'm looking forward to the updates to maxwell that will let it network render and hopefully improvements to the c4d plug too... but at this point they are actually up on FR2 despite their seeming great start - now they are pretty unresponsive and seem to be focusing on other platforms and interests too - i'd sure like to get my copy from osx - pretty far from their original quote of a couple weeks after the XP version - quite untruthful when months later users found out they were actually just starting their osx port.

maybe the last out of the gate VRAY will jump them both and be the best solution... with renato on the job i'm pretty optimistic : )

hey - what ever happened to maxon's production bundle etc i figured we see a connection to PRM or 3Delight or AIR by now...

dann

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