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worx3d
04-19-2006, 01:04 AM
I also posted this at the postforum:

I have a few questions about Onyx Tree Storm and EIAS. I was just asked to make a project involving an animation of a growing tree (a broadleaf tree would be the kind of tree needed I believe).

The main subject of the animation is going to be the tree, so the model needs to look good, not physically extremely accurate, but look very natural, and the growth must also look natural. Wind would look good too but I wasn't asked for it.

I would love to see an animation if anyone has one of a growing tree, I couldn't find one on the Onyx site.

So, can I make a tree grow from a small plant to a full tree with Onyx storm? does it look natural or does it look kind of mechanical if you know what I mean?

I don't care if the model is too high poly, the scene will be basically only two trees, with one of them growing from being a small plant to a big tree.

What I need is to grow a tree during the period of the animation (aprox 2 minutes), I need the tree and the growth of the tree to look very natural (realistic, with textures and all), and I will be following the growth of the tree (new branches, etc) with the camera. Perhaps I'm asking too much of the plugin, but the problem is that I was given very little time. The thing is that someone (an animator) bailed out at the last minute and the animation still need to be done, and the deadline is very very soon (about 1 week). I haven't agreed to do it because of this, and that's why I'm asking you guys, onyx users, for this information.

Anything that you can give me, or tell me to make a good decision will be appreciated.

Thanks

Joel

Vizfizz
04-19-2006, 01:16 AM
Hi Joel...

I don't have onxytree (though I eventually plan to). However, I'm aware that EIAS treestorm supports animated growth of bamboo...but I'm not so sure about broadleaf trees. According to Onxy's website one of the key features of EIAS Treestorm is: Growth. (But does that apply to broadleafs? I don't know)

Do you already have Onyxtree or are you seeking to buy it? I also believe that Vue Infinite has the ability to animate growth of broadleaf trees. Treestorm and Vue 5 are about the same price.

Vizfizz
04-19-2006, 01:25 AM
Not to try and push Vue over Onyx, but Vue's demo reel does include growth animation in case you want to see.

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_5_infinite/video/Vue_5_Infinite_480x270.mov

I'd like to know if Onyx could do that same too..

worx3d
04-19-2006, 01:36 AM
Thanks Brian...

I don't have Onyx tree storm yet, I was planning to buy it. I would really love to do this animation on EIAS, because the animation also involves rain and other effects that I know how to control in it.

Unfortunately, Vue has a terrible problem, animations flicker horribly. I have even tried with the highest AA settings and it helps a little, but it's still there. EIAS delivers beautiful renders with speed and can handle the millions of polys I might be moving, so I'm really hoping to do it in EI, and that's why I'm asking about Onyx Storm.

If Onyx can't grow broadleaf then I guess it's not the right tool for this project :(

I'm thinking about not accepting this project. Time is a big player and I'm not very experienced with trees in EIAS, but I still would love to hear if anyone has something to say in Onyx favor ;)

Joel

Vizfizz
04-19-2006, 01:53 AM
Well.. unless they are paying a pretty penny for the rapid turn around.. and you can live without.. I'd say to move on. Nothing worse than frantic clients with short deadlines. I'm assuming you need to show growth from a seedling to fully grown? If not, I guess one idea you could do is use a model of a tree and combine it with the Tailor tool (render booleans) and animate the reveal of limbs that way.

worx3d
04-19-2006, 02:05 AM
I have to have an answer by tomorrow morning, and it will probably be a no, but I still want to explore the options. I will set the price for the job and it will be according to the rush. This animation is set to be presented by the president of an transnational company at the most important event they celebrate every year, so I guess the pricing is not a problem for them. The thing is, it really has to look good and that's a little worrying due to the short time given, it seems the animator who has been working on the project for a month in Maya had a family problem (must be a big thing huh?) and dissapeared from the face of earth, and it seems the project and all is with him.

I need to animate from the tree being a small plant to a full, big powerful tree (the company is the tree). And that's the easy part hehehe, I need to animate raindrops with names of people stuck on them somehow, hitting the tree as it grows, being absorbed by the grow and the roots and making the tree grow stronger. One week for one guy and with the level of quality they want... that's worrying hehehe. The thing is, if I say no, someone's head is coming down and if I can help in anyway without making it my head the one rolling down hahaha.. then I would.

anyways, thanks a lot for your help Brian..

J

tjs61822
04-19-2006, 03:07 AM
I don't think onyxtree broadleaf has tree growth. Bamboo is the only plant with growth. Trees have wind movement. I did a quick growth test for a soybean plant using bamboo, but never finished it since the job was cancelled. Here's a link:

http://www.soltec.net/~articol/extras/soybean%20plant.mov


Tim

FYI->I posted this reply on PostForum before I saw your post here.

worx3d
04-19-2006, 04:26 AM
that looks great Tim. I guess growing it to a full tree could be a problem, being the bamboo plugin. I guess I will have to discard this project, too rushed to give a proper solution.

Joel

Igors
04-19-2006, 08:29 AM
Hi, Joel

I need to animate from the tree being a small plant to a full, big powerful tree (the company is the tree). We experimented with different "non-linear scales" for Onyx trees with multiply branches and leaves. It was like 7 years ago, so it's possible our experience is obsolete. But our conclusion was: it requires custom/specialized tool(s), and, even with this, it's too complex and too unsafe. Say shorter, it's not for real practice
I have to have an answer by tomorrow morning, and it will probably be a no, In our opinion "no" is only one possible answer here
And that's the easy part hehehe
Oh, yeah, very easy :) LOL

threedeworks
04-19-2006, 04:07 PM
I don't think onyxtree broadleaf has tree growth. Bamboo is the only plant with growth. Trees have wind movement.

(...)

Tim

i can confirm. joel, did you try to contact the developers at onyx for this? they usually are kind to answer any questions. maybe they have some sort of solution for this, who knows...

a more tricky solution could be to export a tree grow sequence as objects from cinema 4d. here you could use xfrog or dpit for the tree growth simulation.

cheers

markus

FelixCat
04-19-2006, 04:10 PM
Hi, Joel
At first glance i run away of this rush works, never ends well. The client allways hopes for something like ILM fxs and done in a week (i think ILM has the same problem BTW). But if you like danger, why not ask directly with VUE how to eliminate the fliker?.
Good luck. You will need it. :)

FelixCat

worx3d
04-19-2006, 05:33 PM
Thanks for the info guys. I decided to not do it. As Felix says, they will be expecting a high level of quality and I don't think it can be provided in the time given. Unfortunately I don't have Cinema and Xfrog, and even if I could buy them, I don't have any experience with either program, so that would be against the time and me.

I made a project a few weeks ago with Vue. I tried every solution I was given to eliminate the flicker, but all I could do was reduce it a bit. Users say it's a bug in the current version and that perhaps an update may fix it. It seems inherent to the render engine so I don't think it will be that easy, but hopefully they'll get around that soon. But I will make a few tests to see what can be done.

I don't want to get into this problematic project, so I guess I'll just say no this time.

Joel

Vizfizz
04-19-2006, 06:02 PM
Well....despite the fact that ILM picked up VUE in their pipeline, I doubt they will focus any energies on the renderer. ILM has their own solutions there. If Vue wants to fix that, they will have to do it themselves.

bbuxton
04-19-2006, 09:00 PM
You won't be able to animate the tree (wind) directly within the plugin, but you could save out a series of models of the tree (keeping the same random seed but adjusting the the parameters for trunk, bough, branch & leaf size a small amount at a time) and use model cycling to animate the effect. Using the mesh controls on export you can ensure that there is enough resolution to apply a deformer linked to an effector to animate for wind.

Use lots of 3d motion blur to smooth out the animation. Maybe cycle the leaf textures to indicate passing seasons.

Could be a bit tedious ...... but certainly possible.

BB

halfworld
04-20-2006, 09:55 AM
Brian!

Nice to see you here! :)

SteveW928
04-20-2006, 10:38 AM
but you could save out a series of models of the tree (keeping the same random seed but adjusting the the parameters for trunk, bough, branch & leaf size a small amount at a time) and use model cycling to animate the effect. BB

I was thinking about something like that too... maybe that with the soybean type animation for close-ups of branches or something. But, I see he already said 'no' (which I would have too)... and I'm not sure I'd want to try something like that under that kind of deadline.

I've thought about trying this technique a couple times just for fun, but never have got around to it. I'm wondering how well it would really work.

That Vue demo reel looks pretty cool. I'm curious what the interaction between the apps is... can that stuff be exported out and brought into EI for renderings easily? I'm guessing to take most of the advantage of the atmospheric stuff, etc... one would have to stay in Vue.

-Steve

bbuxton
04-20-2006, 03:25 PM
Funny, I've not had too many probs with Vue renders flickering.
But Vue renders are painfully slow and the look/feel a bit like Strata or Bryce.
I'm waiting for the Vue Xstream plugin for Lightwave, pity not to get one for EIAS.

Vizfizz
04-20-2006, 03:51 PM
Keep asking for it on their website. There have been a number of users who have and Vue is considering it. If we keep bombarding them.. they might do it.

bbuxton
04-20-2006, 04:36 PM
In the meantime we have placer-deposit (my favorite EIAS plugin)!!!

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