PDA

View Full Version : New MoGraph Module


Pages : [1] 2

Srek
04-18-2006, 02:18 PM
Hi all,
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=3464331#post3464331

Cheers
Björn

JoelOtron
04-18-2006, 02:26 PM
What other 3d package has THIS?
Maxon's gonna make a huge splash at NAB this year.

Awesome work--can't wait to start using this.
Checkbook is out...

spirozero
04-18-2006, 02:39 PM
This is really great. My checkbook is out as well.

Congratulations Maxon on another fine addition to C4D!

tcastudios
04-18-2006, 02:55 PM
Absolutely great. If this does work as described its going to make Cinema scream.
Looks as most bits and functions ,now only possible using loads of different plugins and workarounds , are more or less covered.

Give S&T, Hair et al, -this- Module is taylor made for my work:)

Cheers
Lennart

LucentDreams
04-18-2006, 03:03 PM
What other 3d package has THIS?
Maxon's gonna make a huge splash at NAB this year.

Awesome work--can't wait to start using this.
Checkbook is out...

Are you goign to be at NAB Joel? I'll be at the main Maxon booth demoing most the time look forward to seeing you or anyone else interested in seeing MoGraph.

AdamT
04-18-2006, 03:08 PM
Are you goign to be at NAB Joel? I'll be at the main Maxon booth demoing most the time look forward to seeing you or anyone else interested in seeing MoGraph.
Ditto! :)

GruvDOne
04-18-2006, 03:08 PM
Spectacular! I am so excited about this as Motion Graphics stuff is a pretty big part of what we do. Looks like those folks who missed out on Response and Jenna (and for that matter, those who didn't) have something to cheer about.

I have a couple of questions though for Srek..... In a thread posted I believe last week, there was a discussion on Cinebench showing improved OGL performance on Macs. It was revealed that while Cinebench did in fact have some improvements in OGL implementation, they do not exist yet in C4D. Does the 9.6 release include these improvements?

Also, with regard to 9.6.. will it be available as a free downloadable update, or does one have to purchase this module? And will the Mac version only come in UB flavor?

Cheers, and good work all.

robotbob
04-18-2006, 03:10 PM
looks like a nice trick set - but thank the monty christo that cactus dan exists for his character animation super powers.

9.6 looks really nice for mac users so thanks for that too. ( but i am hoping that will be free )

ThirdEye
04-18-2006, 03:11 PM
Also, with regard to 9.6.. will it be available as a free downloadable update, or does one have to purchase this module?

I guess the 9.6 update will be free, except the module which will be additionally sold as usual.

slouchcorp
04-18-2006, 03:12 PM
just thought id pop in as a tester and someone who does motion graphics for a living,

these are the best tools to enter cinema since v6, IMO not only for animations, but modeling aswell, and VFX, you will be able to do a lot of things you allways wanted to do with TP but could never figure it out.
the tools are simple to use but the possibilitys are infinate with the way it works stacking effectors.
i cant rate them high enough the guys did an awsom job, kudos to maxon for these sweet tools

ill put togeather some tutorial videos as soon as my new server is online.
Mike

imashination
04-18-2006, 03:13 PM
The openGL improvements are included with 9.6, take a look at the current R9 product page linked from the front of maxon.net

Srek
04-18-2006, 03:13 PM
It was revealed that while Cinebench did in fact have some improvements in OGL implementation, they do not exist yet in C4D. Does the 9.6 release include these improvements?
Yes

Also, with regard to 9.6.. will it be available as a free downloadable update, or does one have to purchase this module?
9.6 will be a free update for all users of R9.5

And will the Mac version only come in UB flavor?
No, it will be available as a code warrior version too.

MoGraph and 9.6 will become available as 32 and 64 Bit versions on Windows and Intel/PPC Universal Binary as well as Codewarrior PPC version on OS X.
Cheers
Björn

Cheers
Björn

GruvDOne
04-18-2006, 03:18 PM
just thought id pop in ...
...ill put together some tutorial videos as soon as my new server is online.
Mike

Mike! Great to see ya bud! Still waiting to hear from Bernd about what server repairs are gonna cost, so I can do what I can to get our portal back up ;)

Looking forward to seeing what you put together as tuts!

Great news about the Update, thanks Srek :)

AdamT
04-18-2006, 03:24 PM
Mike is the God of Mograph, btw. :)

Newstream
04-18-2006, 03:27 PM
You know, this is really a great (if not responsible) initiative by Maxon to consolidate several much needed, key functions previously only available via a plug-in jungle which (as we all know...) hasn't been the most dependable at times.
Furthermore, if some of the more "Jeenaesque" functions of this new module eventually find their way into the 64-bit version of C4D, it would be über-cool to say the least.

/ Alex

LucentDreams
04-18-2006, 03:35 PM
You know, this is really a great (if not responsible) initiative by Maxon to consolidate several much needed, key functions previously only available via a plug-in jungle which (as we all know...) hasn't been the most dependable at times.
Furthermore, if some of the more "Jeenaesque" functions of this new module eventually find their way into the 64-bit version of C4D, it would be über-cool to say the least.

/ Alex


the whole module works in the 64 bit version just fine ;)

moka.studio
04-18-2006, 03:43 PM
the exemples look fun, what would be nice though would be to see exemples of the interface, or how the effectors actually work, and how the hierarchies are actually set up.
Beta Testers?

JoelOtron
04-18-2006, 04:00 PM
Are you goign to be at NAB Joel? I'll be at the main Maxon booth demoing most the time look forward to seeing you or anyone else interested in seeing MoGraph.

Unfortunately...NO :(

Working for a studio fulltime now--and they/we have no plans to go to NAB this year.
Maybe Siggraph....

Newstream
04-18-2006, 04:00 PM
the whole module works in the 64 bit version just fine ;)

Ooo-rah. ;)

jkirk01
04-18-2006, 04:03 PM
Any word on pricing for MoGraph? Just curious...

GruvDOne
04-18-2006, 04:12 PM
Any word on pricing for MoGraph? Just curious...


From the press release:

The module is available individually for US dollar 395, pound 259 or euro 327 , or bundled with CINEMA 4D for a special introductory price of only US dollar 995, pound 699 or euro 862.

Pretty fair price, if you ask me. :)

JoelOtron
04-18-2006, 04:12 PM
Any word on pricing for MoGraph? Just curious...

from maxon.net:

As is the case with all MAXON products, MoGraph will be available for Windows (32-bit or 64-bit) and Macintosh systems (incl. Universal Binary). MoGraph will ship in May, and requires CINEMA 4D R9.6 or higher. The module is available individually for US dollar 395, pound 259 or euro 327 , or bundled with CINEMA 4D for a special introductory price of only US dollar 995, pound 699 or euro 862.

(edit--GruvDOone beat me to it)

jkirk01
04-18-2006, 04:19 PM
Yea, and so did Maxon. I looked and didn't see it, but perhaps they came in behind me??? Anyway, thanks...

JamesMK
04-18-2006, 04:20 PM
these are the best tools to enter cinema since v6, IMO not only for animations, but modeling aswell, and VFX, you will be able to do a lot of things you allways wanted to do with TP but could never figure it out.
Have to second that!

And, this is worth emphasizing, the functionality goes beyond what it says on the box, so to speak, in that no matter what particular flavour of modeling or animation you do, you will definitely find a way to use and/or abuse the MoGraph module. Pretty much like Hair, it's useful for lots of things it wasn't originally intended for. The only downside is that some things that usually are a pain in the rear to create, end up being so simple to do it's not even funny.


.

lllab
04-18-2006, 04:27 PM
wow! one thing more to make cinema4d unique!

excellent maxon:-)
can we preorder?

cheers
stefan

rizon
04-18-2006, 04:28 PM
*o*r*g*a*s*m*
Thank You Maxon!!!

slouchcorp
04-18-2006, 04:31 PM
The only downside is that some things that usually are a pain in the rear to create, end up being so simple to do it's not even funny.

.

can anyone say tank tread:) allways a nightmare, now so easy i can cry, see vid. techsmith codec needed!. under 3mb

http://www.slouchcorp.com/stuff/tank tred.avi

MIke

AdamT
04-18-2006, 04:49 PM
Here's a quick video showing the most basic use of the cloner, plus the random effector and a couple of falloffs: http://3danvil.com/Mograph/mograph_mostbasic.html

Direct link to the flash movie: http://3danvil.com/Mograph/mograph_mostbasic.swf

I may have to take it down after a while if my bandwidth starts disappearing--need some for work stuff. :)

seco7
04-18-2006, 05:02 PM
Here's a quick video showing the most basic use of the cloner, plus the random effector and a couple of falloffs: http://3danvil.com/Mograph/mograph_mostbasic.html

Direct link to the flash movie: http://3danvil.com/Mograph/mograph_mostbasic.swf

I may have to take it down after a while if my bandwidth starts disappearing--need some for work stuff. :)

Thanks Adam, it looks fantastic. This isn't probably the time, but one quick question. Are the effectors tied to a single object tree? Can you have multiple effectors working on separate objects independent of one another?

kevin3d
04-18-2006, 05:03 PM
from maxon.net:

The module is available individually for US dollar 395, pound 259 or euro 327 , or bundled with CINEMA 4D for a special introductory price of only US dollar 995, pound 699 or euro 862.

(edit--GruvDOone beat me to it)

For some time I've been thinking I'd like to see an alternative to the XL bundle that was more oriented towards motion graphics, and the introduction of MoGraph accents that. For instance, I'd rather have Sketch & Toon than Advanced Renderer, and now I think I'd like to swap MoGraph for TP or Pyrocluster.

That said, the intro price stated above is fair.

GruvDOne
04-18-2006, 05:03 PM
Here's a quick video showing the most basic use of the cloner, plus the random effector and a couple of falloffs: http://3danvil.com/Mograph/mograph_mostbasic.html

Direct link to the flash movie: http://3danvil.com/Mograph/mograph_mostbasic.swf

I may have to take it down after a while if my bandwidth starts disappearing--need some for work stuff. :)


Wow... to quote Napoleon Dynamite.. "Luckyyy!" ;) I can't wait.

vid2k2
04-18-2006, 05:05 PM
Thanks Adam,

Looks amazing !

AkaKico
04-18-2006, 05:07 PM
Woooooo! Fun stuff!

Nice demo stuff there Adam!


*excited*

lllab
04-18-2006, 05:10 PM
is there something like allie in jenna?

cheers
stefan

sketchbook
04-18-2006, 05:19 PM
my question is will this be part of the studio bundle or separate like hair?

AdamT
04-18-2006, 05:26 PM
Thanks Adam, it looks fantastic. This isn't probably the time, but one quick question. Are the effectors tied to a single object tree? Can you have multiple effectors working on separate objects independent of one another?
If I understand the question, you can have multiple effectors affecting the same clones. There's a weighting system so you can interactively adjust the influence they have. It's also dependent on their position in the cloners' effector list.

Also you can use the same effectors to affect separate cloners. This really highlights the different uses of "effect" and "affect", doesn't it? :)

seco7
04-18-2006, 05:31 PM
This really highlights the different uses of "effect" and "affect", doesn't it? :)

Yes it does. I need to bust out my old High School English book. Laughing. Thanks.

AdamT
04-18-2006, 05:59 PM
is there something like allie in jenna?

cheers
stefan
You can control the placement (and size/scale/rotation/color/etc.) of clones with textures by way of the Shader Effector.

AdamT
04-18-2006, 06:02 PM
btw, has anyone mentioned that Mograph works with Cinema's built-in particles, as well as Thinking Particles. It can even *generate* thinking particles!

GruvDOne
04-18-2006, 06:04 PM
btw, has anyone mentioned that Mograph works with Cinema's built-in particles, as well as Thinking Particles. It can even *generate* thinking particles!

AHHHHHH!! the more I hear and see of this. the more sanity I loose!!!

AkaKico
04-18-2006, 06:06 PM
btw, has anyone mentioned that Mograph works with Cinema's built-in particles, as well as Thinking Particles. It can even *generate* thinking particles!

Nope, no one had mentioned that :D yay!

marcom
04-18-2006, 06:09 PM
quick question:
does the mograph module replace the "core particle tools"-functionality?
i am especially missing the particle 2 spline thing.

and... this thing looks fabulous! :)

slouchcorp
04-18-2006, 06:10 PM
btw, has anyone mentioned that Mograph works with Cinema's built-in particles, as well as Thinking Particles. It can even *generate* thinking particles!


not only that particles and any object can be used as falloff for any effector:)

imagine particles hitting a mesh and causing a deformation

mike

spirozero
04-18-2006, 06:10 PM
btw, has anyone mentioned that Mograph works with Cinema's built-in particles, as well as Thinking Particles. It can even *generate* thinking particles!

Can you show us some examples? Please. I can't wait until May.

I'm surprised TimC hasn't chimed in yet. He must have been a beta tester as well?

slouchcorp
04-18-2006, 06:12 PM
quick question:
does the mograph module replace the "core particle tools"-functionality?
i am especially missing the particle 2 spline thing.

and... this thing looks fabulous! :)

never used CPT, but tracer can trace particles or anything, and create a spline from the trace

Mike

Srek
04-18-2006, 06:12 PM
I'm surprised TimC hasn't chimed in yet. He must have been a beta tester as well?
Have to go and look for the welding torch to seperate Tim from MoGraph so he can post again :)

Cheers
Björn

AdamT
04-18-2006, 06:13 PM
Also :) did anyone mention that many of the mograph effectors can also be used as deformers on polygonal objects? Ever wish for a "crumple" deformer with total control over falloff and other parameters?

ooo
04-18-2006, 06:25 PM
Wow, I was away for a few days and now this Maxon-BOMB has fallen.
Looks spectacular, so I have a bit of reading to do and watch some example vids, but this a really great surprise! And great to hear about 9.6 too! Nice to be back :)

odo

TimC
04-18-2006, 06:26 PM
MoGraph is awesome!!!

You will love it.

The matrix object is great as you can use it to generate thinking particles, then control them with MoGraph effectors, but.... there is a constrain parameter that allows you to blend between the TP particles being controlled by Xpresso (PGravity, PDeflector etc..) and being controlled by MoGraph. Imagine the possibilities.

I've even worked out a really simple way to use MoGraph to bake your TP.

Animation Offset is another feature I love. It allows you to animate an object, then clone the object. Then if you use a step effector and animation offset you can adjust the time when each new clone appears and starts animating (think forests growing).

and.. and.. LOL

cheers
TimC

p.s. I'll have a few examples on my site for download when it is released.

marcom
04-18-2006, 06:27 PM
never used CPT, but tracer can trace particles or anything, and create a spline from the trace

Mike

yeah!
good news indeed. makes me want to spend some cash...

guypapyrus
04-18-2006, 06:28 PM
can anyone say tank tread:) allways a nightmare, now so easy i can cry, see vid. techsmith codec needed!. under 3mb

http://www.slouchcorp.com/stuff/tank tred.avi (http://www.slouchcorp.com/stuff/tank%20tred.avi)

MIke

:eek:

Here's a quick video showing the most basic use of the cloner, plus the random effector and a couple of falloffs: http://3danvil.com/Mograph/mograph_mostbasic.html

:eek:

Sorry, a little hard to be articulate ATM :D

So much progress and competition among 3D apps in general these days, but Maxon really seems to be taking the lead, or sharing the lead at the very least (I consider Maxon and SoftImage the leaders; Pixologic and perhaps Luxology too... if their new versions ever come out :rolleyes: ). One of the nice things about being a C4D user. :)

AdamT
04-18-2006, 06:35 PM
Also, did anyone mention that Mograph includes an interactive spline boolean object? :)

AkaKico
04-18-2006, 06:40 PM
Also, did anyone mention that Mograph includes an interactive spline boolean object? :)

Buh?



and.. and.. LOL

cheers
TimC:)


Making it harder to wait Tim! :bounce:

DMJ
04-18-2006, 06:43 PM
The thing that makes me itch a little is that this is the second time that Maxon tries (and probably successfully) to rob me of my money ;). The first time was with the Hair module, and now they do it again.

One question, how do you people keep projects like this secret?
Is it becuase you make them so interesting that everyone of the development team is so busy with it, and unwilling to let it go to post anything about it on the official channels?
I mean, it's like hiding a skyscraper under a napkin, and then when you remove the napkin, you are given something so big it's mind boggeling.

Consider this module ordered.

unseenthings
04-18-2006, 06:45 PM
btw, has anyone mentioned that Mograph works with Cinema's built-in particles, as well as Thinking Particles. It can even *generate* thinking particles!

Sweeeeeeet.... I was going to ask about that... Jenna's ability to create TP always fascinated me, but I could never get very far without it crashing Cinema.

I'm really looking forward to this!

AdamT
04-18-2006, 06:45 PM
One question, how do you people keep projects like this secret?
When you agree join the beta team you also agree to have a chip implanted in your brain. 2000 volts if you even *think* about telling. :)

jkirk01
04-18-2006, 06:45 PM
...So much progress and competition among 3D apps in general these days, but Maxon really seems to be taking the lead...

No kidding! A lot of people are waiting for enhanced CA tools and in the mean time we get hair and mograph. Each, of course, are making people ecstatic. But in the background of my mind I'm thinking, "If Maxon can do this for Hair and MoGraph, what the heck can we expect from a Mocca update?" The bar and anticipation is indeed high. I need to start making some money with this stuff, it's getting expensive! :hmm:

spirozero
04-18-2006, 06:45 PM
I'll have a few examples on my site for download when it is released.

Great! That's what I was hoping for. Thanks Tim.

I'm already dreaming of a revamped timeline in R10. :drool:

basilisk
04-18-2006, 07:25 PM
there is a danger that C4D users will start feeling a little bit smug. RIP Jenna, it was nice knowing you.

This is my complete motion graphics shopping list, with loads of things I hadn't even thought of.

I feel my debit card twitching.

150% speedup in GL on Macs R9.6, now does that meen that the new speed is 1.5x the old speed, or is it 150% increase, which would be 2.5x the old speed?

All these goodies would justify calling it R10, I hope there is something left in reserve!

ollle
04-18-2006, 07:32 PM
Did someone mention the spline-wrapper? With this you can deform objects along a spline. Very nice deformer!!

JamesMK
04-18-2006, 07:34 PM
And... did anyone mention that you can use the Fracture Object and any number of Matrix Objects to get complete control over (for example) each and every bit of a polygon object that has been blown to pieces by an Explosion FX deformer?

----> http://web.telia.com/~u48040664/megamorph.mov


.

AdamT
04-18-2006, 07:36 PM
I'm getting a 404 error on that page, James.

TimC
04-18-2006, 07:38 PM
I'm getting a 404 error on that page, James.

that's the effect!! (404 effector)

Tim

ThirdEye
04-18-2006, 07:39 PM
LOL Tim. It works here anyway.

JamesMK
04-18-2006, 07:39 PM
Yeah, cool, isn't it? :D

Have no idea why though. Works fine from here... Damn crappy cheap hosts :shrug:

TimC
04-18-2006, 07:40 PM
works here too, just being a fool..

Tim

AkaKico
04-18-2006, 07:45 PM
I was gonna ask where the details were on 9.6 update, but I found them!

Material Matters
Working with animated textures is easier than ever in CINEMA 4D Release 9.6. Procedural and image-based animated textures on any object now display animated previews within the editor view. Further the MPEG1, MPEG2 and MPEG4 movie files can now be utilized directly through QuickTime, and the duration and framerate of all animated textures are now automatically detected and applied. Finally, most procedural noise types can now be looped seamlessly.

Other Sweeping Enhancements



The Sweep NURBs object has been enhanced to allow both start and end growth, as well as scaling and rotation throughout the sweep.
A new Sudivided spline interpolation mode makes deformation of spline-based objects a piece of cake.
Text splines have been re-engineered to support more font types on Macintosh and honor the font's built-in kerning options on all platforms.
“Only Select Visible Elements” option within the Create Polygon tool
Xpresso sound node now supports FFT analysis
User Data can be edited and reordered, new interfaces for in/exclude lists and drop-down options
Available in May 2006.




Woooooooooo (http://maxon.net/pages/products/c4d/960features_e.html)!

3DKiwi
04-18-2006, 07:49 PM
Thanks for the excellent examples Mike and Adam. I can't wait to get my hands on this baby!!

3DKiwi

GruvDOne
04-18-2006, 08:05 PM
I have to say, the improvements in in the free update alone are enough to get me all giddy. A couple more that weren't mentioned above like the improved AE Integration, Matte Objects, and Vector Multi-Pass are just lifesavers.

There are many who complain about it when Maxon releases paid updates like 8.5 and 9.5, but these free upgrades that contain MASSIVE improvements need to be applauded as a sign of Maxon's generosity to its user-base.

Thanks Maxon :)

Other3DMaster
04-18-2006, 08:19 PM
Silly question... but when objects are cloned along another object, can it be made so those cloned objects deform/hug to the target object.. like mesh deformer?

BTW Maxon is just amazing. You have my order.

soccerrprp
04-18-2006, 08:20 PM
SWEET! Darn happy that I decided on C4D to learn 3D! I have been nothing but dazzled by Maxon's over-all response to its user-base.

**Xpresso sound node now supports FFT analysis**

Okay, so, does this mean that I can use the sound node for music driven animation? Say it's so!:eek:

AdamT
04-18-2006, 08:29 PM
Silly question... but when objects are cloned along another object, can it be made so those cloned objects deform/hug to the target object.. like mesh deformer?

BTW Maxon is just amazing. You have my order.
No, I think that's one trick it can't do. AFAIK.

Jonj1611
04-18-2006, 08:33 PM
Hi,

Module looks great, will need to update my 8.5!! Time to raid the piggy bank :)

Jon

JamesMK
04-18-2006, 08:38 PM
Okay, so, does this mean that I can use the sound node for music driven animation? Say it's so!:eek:
It's so, it's so

Other3DMaster
04-18-2006, 08:42 PM
No, I think that's one trick it can't do. AFAIK.

Adam,

But if I undersand correctly, it does have a path/spline deformer that acts like Renato's path deforming plug? If so, could you project a spline onto a target object and then use this function to "fake" a mesh deform... maybe it wouldn't work at all, or just in some cases. Not a deal breaker by any means, just really curious.

Thanks for the info.

AdamT
04-18-2006, 08:47 PM
Adam,

But if I undersand correctly, it does have a path/spline deformer that acts like Renato's path deforming plug? If so, could you project a spline onto a target object and then use this function to "fake" a mesh deform... maybe it wouldn't work at all, or just in some cases. Not a deal breaker by any means, just really curious.

Thanks for the info.
Yep, you could do that, but it would only deform along the direction of the spline.

I suppose if you have Renato's plugin they mighy work together--or worst case--you could bake the cloner.

slouchcorp
04-18-2006, 08:49 PM
ok heres a quiky tute on how to make this

http://www.slouchcorp.com/mograph/101.mov


link to tute, again techsmith, and rubbish audio dont take the piss out of my bad, kiwi pom accent:)

http://www.slouchcorp.com/mograph/mograph101.avi

hope my bandwidth holds!

mike

alona
04-18-2006, 09:00 PM
First post here at this forum :)

I do quite a bit of mograph work, and have been eyeing C4D for a while. I'm an avid XSI user and I don't think I'll ever drop XSI, but this here little C4D+mograph beast may just be the last straw - I have a strong feeling Maxon just got themselves a new client.

I went over all the videos posted in this thread (thanks guys!) and this seems to be a flexible and well thought-out system. I'm literally itching to try it out and I haven't even used C4D before (except a little dabbling with the demo). Most of this stuff is not impossible to achieve by other means - I believe I can recreate most of it using a little bit of scripting and expressions in XSI, and probably in C4D as well - but it's going to take a tremendous amount of work, and the end result probably won't be nearly as flexible.


Way to go Maxon. :thumbsup:

- A. A.

GruvDOne
04-18-2006, 09:01 PM
ok heres a quiky tute on how to make this

http://www.slouchcorp.com/mograph/101.mov


link to tute, again techsmith, and rubbish audio dont take the piss out of my bad, kiwi pom accent:)

http://www.slouchcorp.com/mograph/mograph101.avi

hope my bandwidth holds!

mike

Cheers Mike! You tha man ;)

slouchcorp
04-18-2006, 09:05 PM
First post here at this forum :)

I believe I can recreate most of it using a little bit of scripting and expressions in XSI, and probably in C4D as well - but it's going to take a tremendous amount of work, and the end result probably won't be nearly as flexible.


Way to go Maxon. :thumbsup:

- A. A.

you wont regrete trying it, you probly can do most of it in xsi but no ware near as fast and easy:), cinema for motion graphics is a leathal combo.

mike

VestanPance
04-18-2006, 09:05 PM
Very nice Mike. Why do all the Kiwis ive heard sound like they just woke up from a nice, long nap?;)

3DKiwi
04-18-2006, 09:05 PM
Awesome Mike. Thanks for that. I didn't detect any Kiwi accent in there :)

3DKiwi

spirozero
04-18-2006, 09:07 PM
ok heres a quiky tute on how to make this

Absolutely beautiful! Thanks Mike.

I can't wait until May!

slouchcorp
04-18-2006, 09:08 PM
Awesome Mike. Thanks for that. I didn't detect any Kiwi accent in there :)

3DKiwi

arr bollo0ks! dont say that, means ov been away from home way to long!(10 years) doh!

sean paul thats cos were such a chilled bunch:)

mike

ghopper
04-18-2006, 09:16 PM
ok heres a quiky tute on how to make this
...
hope my bandwidth holds!
mike

Nice one - thx. In case your bandwidth doesn't hold, I've mirrored the AVI here:

mograph101.avi (http://tinyurl.com/r8up8)

slouchcorp
04-18-2006, 09:18 PM
Nice one - thx. In case your bandwidth doesn't hold, I've mirrored the AVI here:

mograph101.avi (http://tinyurl.com/r8up8)


legand cheers!

mike

ThePriest
04-18-2006, 09:26 PM
All looks great, but I have to grumble on the spending more money side.

*Wait for it*

Grrrrrmmmmbbbbbllllllrrrreee:argh:

Ok, I'm done.

danb
04-18-2006, 09:32 PM
For the love of God, is there anything Maxon can't do? And all this before SIGGRAPH, what's next?

Srek, will there be demo for this?

I'd really like to try before i buy and i really want to buy. :) I can't wait to try those deformers out for modelling and animation.

AkaKico
04-18-2006, 09:39 PM
Srek, will there be demo for this?

CINEMA 4D R9.6 demo available soon. <----- Maxon Site


The question is when!

spirozero
04-18-2006, 09:43 PM
Well, I just pre-ordered the Mograph module. There goes my tax return money!

telnoi-c4d
04-18-2006, 10:15 PM
And another mirror
100 mbit
Techsmith codec
http://cinema4d.be/mograph101.avi (http://cinema4d.be/mograph101.avi)

moka.studio
04-18-2006, 10:18 PM
thanks for posting the exemple, Adam, James, Mike.
looks really versatile! -

TimC
04-18-2006, 10:19 PM
Here I create Thinking Particles on a sphere using the matrix object. Then add a simple PGravity node. Adjust the constrain parameter to blend between mograph control or Xpresso (gravity). Then add a mograph random effector and blend between the two.

http://www.hypa.tv/tims/misc/TP_MoGraph.mov

cheers
Tim

jkirk01
04-18-2006, 10:54 PM
Cool stuff Tim. I guess Srek's torch failed to separate you from mograph?;)

Billabong
04-19-2006, 01:36 AM
is anyone else having a problem viewing Mike's little tut

VestanPance
04-19-2006, 02:00 AM
Brandon, Do you have the Techsmith codec installed?

Billabong
04-19-2006, 02:22 AM
yeah, it will play, but it skips like crazy and the screen is all messed up

Zendorf
04-19-2006, 03:01 AM
Wow, really cool stuff...though it is was not really a surprise that these kinds of features were coming(via the cgtalk rumour mill), it is quite welcome! I did tend to think that these sort of tools would make it into the core version, and admitedly I can pull off most of this with existing tools (Ditools, Response, Jenna, etc). But having it all in one package is more convenient and will give me more piece of mind...especially with the actions of some 3rd party devs!

Also, just as excited to read the new 9.6 features! Animated materials in the viewport is a dream, especially impressive that procedurals will also be updated live. The new AE options and the fft node also sound sweet. So, while C4d can't touch XSI/Maya for CA work, Cinema is just streets ahead for mograph work. While this new module is aimed at the Mograph crowd , it will also help for general fx work, especially when the dynamics module is updated....:love:

spirozero
04-19-2006, 06:29 AM
Adam, James, Mike, Tim,

Any text examples or tutorials? I'd love to see more of what mograph can do with text.

Are the text examples in the mograph demo reel fairly easy to duplicate?

neosushi
04-19-2006, 06:44 AM
Adam, James, Mike, Tim,

Any text examples or tutorials? I'd love to see more of what mograph can do with text.

Are the text examples in the mograph demo reel fairly easy to duplicate?

It's so easy you won't believe it.

a.) Use a Text Object
b.) Add an Effector of your choice
c.) set 2 keyframes (for example pos a -> pos b)
d.) render you final movie

not more not less.
You're able to use any effector on the Letters, Words or Lines. This will give you unlimited power of controlling your Typo animation.

cheers
::neosushi::

Rich-Art
04-19-2006, 08:16 AM
Great examples.

This makes me hungry for more..........

Peace.
Rich-Art. :thumbsup:

mt_sabao
04-19-2006, 09:40 AM
Wow.
Would just like to jump in the wagon and say good work maxon! Can honestly wait to play with this one!
Cheers
-lu

Duffdaddy
04-19-2006, 11:11 AM
Holy Cr*p! I've been holding off upgrading from 9.1, but Maxon have just given me a reason not to wait for 10.
This looks like a must have package for me,... and nearly everyone for that matter.
The combined potential makes my head hurt just thinking about the possibilities. I feel like a giddy school girl.
Having used Jenna and CPT for a long time, this looks a worthy replacement. Being able to reliably combine these tools will also be a pleasure I hope. Can the beta testers who used Jenna & CPT previously fill me in on the improvements with the Motion module?

basilisk
04-19-2006, 12:08 PM
Holy Cr*p! I've been holding off upgrading from 9.1, but Maxon have just given me a reason not to wait for 10.


I have been in the same postition - software upgrades have to pay for themselves and it was difficult to justify the 9.5 upgrade. Now with the Mac speedups promised in 9.6, and the Mograph module I reckon there is time to be saved and money to be made with the upgrades.

Duffdaddy
04-19-2006, 12:20 PM
I have been in the same postition - software upgrades have to pay for themselves and it was difficult to justify the 9.5 upgrade. Now with the Mac speedups promised in 9.6, and the Mograph module I reckon there is time to be saved and money to be made with the upgrades.

Yep, cept we'll have a bit more competition now eh. I can see a few more people jumping into mograph design now Maxon have made it that much simpler. Still, you need good design sensibilities to make something pleasing, and the experience to do it on time and in budget.

JamesMK
04-19-2006, 12:27 PM
Still, you need good design sensibilities to make something pleasing, and the experience to do it on time and in budget.
Very, very good point. If you know what you're doing, these tools make everything a lot easier.

But if you don't have a clue in the first place (like me for instance), no tools, no matter how great, will be able to save your ass.


.

AdamT
04-19-2006, 12:52 PM
But if you don't have a clue in the first place (like me for instance), no tools, no matter how great, will be able to save your ass.
Yes--quite apparent looking at what Mike and TimC (excellent mograph artists) put together in testing compared to me (not so much). :)

ooo
04-19-2006, 01:28 PM
So what's the deal with these new shaders? Do they only work with Mograph? What is the difference with other shaders? Just curious...

odo

rsquires
04-19-2006, 02:29 PM
I have to say I am blown away by this. I think about every job I have done in the past few years has at some point or other used Jenna, CPT, DiTools, and more recently some of Renato's excellent plugins. And yes I know I shouldn't rely on plugins but these ones became essential because of their very nature.

This makes upgrading to Universal Binary and purchasing a new 17 inch (when it comes out) Mac Book Pro now a great deal more feasible. I was torn before as I do rely on these plugins, and was thinking I would have to stick it out in PPC land for a while. But the existing 15" mac book gets a better Cinebench than my Dual G5 2 Ghz! So maybe it's time for me to buy my first lap top.

This is a fantastic developement and although I think people will get all uppity about the lack of character tools this will propel C4D into it's rightful niche, that of the must have tool for motion graphics. I was also looking at the 9.6 update and it finally allows PSR data for objects to be exported to AE something I have wanted for ages. Good going Maxon truly a wonderful surprise today.

regards

rich

PS It would be interesting to know if the OGL speed increases for mac also apply to the PPC version. I assume so but this may just be the UB version.

ooo
04-19-2006, 02:38 PM
PS It would be interesting to know if the OGL speed increases for mac also apply to the PPC version. I assume so but this may just be the UB version.

Just try the new Cinebench (the version that was released on april 7) and see for yourself. 9.6 will also give this OpenGL-boost on recent PPC-macs.

tcastudios
04-19-2006, 02:43 PM
Does the new Include/exlude in 9.6 mean that they are independent?.
That is, a light can include a object(s) -and- exlude one or several other objects.

Would surely help alot.

Cheers
Lennart

bhealy27
04-19-2006, 02:46 PM
my question is will this be part of the studio bundle or separate like hair?

Doesn't look like Sketchbok ever got his answer.

I think this is a great upgrade and plan on shelling out my money but I thought when I finally broke down and bought the Studio Bundle it was going to be all inclusive. Unless Hair and MoGraph are added to the version 10 Studio Bundle upgrade it's going to be Stuio Bundle + Hair + MoGraph... hope this isn't the start of a new pricing model.

Brian

Jorge Arango
04-19-2006, 03:00 PM
PS It would be interesting to know if the OGL speed increases for mac also apply to the PPC version. I assume so but this may just be the UB version.


It does: 1503 (speedup 5.3) vs 2256 (speedup 7.53) in my G5 2.0 with ATI 9600




Jorge Arango

marshalartist
04-19-2006, 03:05 PM
These new tools look fantastic, but I would love to know more detail.
How does the Group Effector work, does it let you have a variety of child objects to be cloned for instance? What choices do have to distrubute along splines? Can you create a matrix with a Brick Repeat so it offsets each row? More Details Please :-)

LucentDreams
04-19-2006, 03:24 PM
Does the new Include/exlude in 9.6 mean that they are independent?.
That is, a light can include a object(s) -and- exlude one or several other objects.

Would surely help alot.

Cheers
Lennart

Don't see how splitting them up would do any good you can't exclude some obejcts and include others, its a yes/no kinda thing, its either included or not, the reason yu can change to either include or exclude at al is jsut to allow you to choose which route is easier, excluding a few objects or including a lot, or vice versa including a few, excluding a lot. you can' have 20 objects, include five and exclude 5, where do the other 10 go?

No all that section means is that Custom userdata now has access to additional data types that it didn't before, like I can now make my own Include box for costom xpressions rather than having to use a link list node etc.

LucentDreams
04-19-2006, 03:33 PM
These new tools look fantastic, but I would love to know more detail.
How does the Group Effector work, does it let you have a variety of child objects to be cloned for instance? What choices do have to distrubute along splines? Can you create a matrix with a Brick Repeat so it offsets each row? More Details Please :-)

Group effector lets you link effectors to it and then simply link that single group effect to amograph object, rather than each individual effector going straight to that object. Seems kinda pointless at first, but let me give you two simple examples of how this can be handy.

First of all, in mograph you have the ability to use multiple effectors, and control their strength of effect on an object so one effector can have 50% influence while another one has 100% influence (they are additive of course) if I'm using the same effectors on 5 different objects and need to affect them all the same amount, I"d have to change those strength values 5 times, once for each object. Thats repetitive and slow workflwo, instead I coudl put all the effectors in a group effector link list, then put that group effector in all five objects. then whenever I want to change the strngth I can do it in the group effector and it changes all five objects at the same time.

Another use which I'm sure everyone will see used a lot in the demo and in the additional content released with morgaph, is for presets. Lets say I have a complex effect using many several effectors, that is something I want to use often. I'd make this a preset I can load anytime. however that means having to load several effectors into the object I'm using etc. The group effector simplifies this as I jsut have to link the group effector to my new obejct and the aniamtion is done just like that.

Oh that reminds me, did anyone mention the huge preset library??? There are files that are literally insert text here kinda preset template for logo effects and the likes.

LucentDreams
04-19-2006, 03:36 PM
Doesn't look like Sketchbok ever got his answer.

I think this is a great upgrade and plan on shelling out my money but I thought when I finally broke down and bought the Studio Bundle it was going to be all inclusive. Unless Hair and MoGraph are added to the version 10 Studio Bundle upgrade it's going to be Stuio Bundle + Hair + MoGraph... hope this isn't the start of a new pricing model.

Brian

This isnt' an official maxon answer, simply logical speculation from me:

As with previous mid release modules like sketch and toon, they'll likely be added to a new priced studio bundle when R10 is released, til then they want to maintain their prices so the two modules are kept seperate from the studio price.

rsquires
04-19-2006, 03:36 PM
It does: 1503 (speedup 5.3) vs 2256 (speedup 7.53) in my G5 2.0 with ATI 9600




Jorge Arango

I too have the same machine as you do. I think I have the same card as well. That's great news.

AdamT
04-19-2006, 03:40 PM
These new tools look fantastic, but I would love to know more detail.
How does the Group Effector work, does it let you have a variety of child objects to be cloned for instance? What choices do have to distrubute along splines? Can you create a matrix with a Brick Repeat so it offsets each row? More Details Please :-)
The group affector lets you set up presets out of selected effectors.

There are lots of options for distribution along a spline; any specific requests?

You can great a matrix with a brick repeat by way of effectors, e.g., use a shader effector (with no shader in it) affecting position x, then set falloff to box and scale it so it affects the row(s), column(s) you want. By using multiple effectors you can achieve virtually any offset you want.

benytone
04-19-2006, 03:43 PM
wow, This is fantastic news, :applause: but the Price 379,- Euro??? :argh:
someone can give me money?! :banghead:

TimC
04-19-2006, 04:05 PM
The group affector lets you set up presets out of selected effectors.

There are lots of options for distribution along a spline; any specific requests?

You can great a matrix with a brick repeat by way of effectors, e.g., use a shader effector (with no shader in it) affecting position x, then set falloff to box and scale it so it affects the row(s), column(s) you want. By using multiple effectors you can achieve virtually any offset you want.

Adam, it is much easier than that. you can do it with one shader effector, use a tiled gradient to offset every other row of clones.

http://www.hypa.tv/tims/misc/bricks.jpg

cheers
Tim

AdamT
04-19-2006, 04:08 PM
Adam, it is much easier than that. you can do it with one shader effector, use a tiled gradient to offset every other row of clones.
Well yeah, shows how versatile the module is. Smartypants. :p

marshalartist
04-19-2006, 04:12 PM
Thanks Adam, Kai and Tim, that does look very powerful and flexible. What kind of alignment options do you get when distrubuting along a spline are there any gimbol lock problems?

Srek
04-19-2006, 04:14 PM
Doesn't look like Sketchbok ever got his answer.
And i doubt he will any time soon.
I can only say that the content of bundles has never been changed during a major release and future releases are neither fixed nor will their content be announced prematurely.
Cheers
Björn

ChrisCousins
04-19-2006, 04:17 PM
Adam, it is much easier than that. you can do it with one shader effector, use a tiled gradient to offset every other row of clones.
cheers
Tim

Looks like a lot of fun! Still not quite sure how the heirarchy works, can the Effectors sit anywhere? Do Effectors just apply to Clone objects? I'm sure it will be much clearer once I get my hands on this, but at the moment it's all a bit opaque...

Also, unrelated question - does the sound driver node have any sort of GUI, or do you have to use trial and error to isolate a particular frequency?

Seeyou - Chris

JamesMK
04-19-2006, 04:24 PM
Looks like a lot of fun! Still not quite sure how the heirarchy works, can the Effectors sit anywhere?
Yes, they are tied to their right place using link fields. If you use an Effector as a deformer however, the hierarchy works just as any regular deformer.

Do Effectors just apply to Clone objects?
They apply to all sorts of MoGraph objects (text/matrix/extruder etcetera etcetera), and also work as regular deformers.

Also, unrelated question - does the sound driver node have any sort of GUI, or do you have to use trial and error to isolate a particular frequency?
The Sound Effector has visual feedback (the expected frequency graph thingy)


.

tcastudios
04-19-2006, 04:30 PM
Don't see how splitting them up would do any good you can't exclude some obejcts and include others, its a yes/no kinda thing, its either included or not, the reason yu can change to either include or exclude at al is jsut to allow you to choose which route is easier, excluding a few objects or including a lot, or vice versa including a few, excluding a lot. you can' have 20 objects, include five and exclude 5, where do the other 10 go?

I have to say I'm very tired and overworked atm so I might not think totally straight :), but I've ecountered a few situations where I would have liked to Include a hierarchy but exclude a few objects within that hierarchy (and vice versa)-without- breaking the hierarchy or moving objects out of that null.

Mainly to keep the scene clean but also sometimes objects can't be moved (controlled by other means, selection options etc).

Cheers
Lennart

sketchbook
04-19-2006, 04:44 PM
And i doubt he will any time soon.
I can only say that the content of bundles has never been changed during a major release and future releases are neither fixed nor will their content be announced prematurely.
Cheers
Björn

no worries. for what its worth, i talked to rafi and she said that whether you buy now or get it as part of the upgrade later, you pay the same amount. i don't think that's fully accurate, but you will get some type of discount on the upgrade if you buy early.

atomic22
04-19-2006, 04:57 PM
So is the 9.6 update going to be released in May as well? Just wondering when people thought that will come out.
Sorry if I missed it in a previous post.

LucentDreams
04-19-2006, 05:02 PM
Can you create a matrix with a Brick Repeat so it offsets each row? More Details Please :-)

No one else too the challenge so I did, might not be the best way to do it, but I'm nto as experienced with mograph as many of the other testers (I'm a TD character animator after all) one effector for the offset, another for the random brick coloring. The two cloners are the two walls, they only contain a single cube. took about 8 minutes to setup I think including figuring out the method in the first place, and the nice thign is I can easily make this a 1000 brick wide wall now.

http://lucentdreams.net/brick.jpg

AdamT
04-19-2006, 05:08 PM
No one else too the challenge so I did
No one except me and Tim?

flingster
04-19-2006, 05:10 PM
claps at maxon and the devs involved in this.
c4d has a history of mograph work with all the plugins like ditools/jenna/CP/xfrog which were never available elsewhere..with the loss of jenna/CP it hurt...bad. i'm glad to see maxon has taken this up...was thinking because wasn't available native in other 3d apps there was no chance we'd see it in c4d...but how wrong can i be. the cloner/iteration tools were sorely needed for a long time..but good to see deformation/spline/tp type stuff also wind its way in there by the early looks of it. it beginning to look like an update to ditools and jenna to me which is all good. ya didn't get the money out of me to upgrade from 9 to 9.5...but you're gonna get the money outta me for this module...
the only time i've ever wished i was a beta tester was when i saw this module so i could have had some input into its development...as it looks now it not a worry from what i can see. good work guys....and a very very heartfelt THANK YOU.
i don't know how the adamt fella ever kept quiet when i was banging on about maxon updating cloning/iteration..but to his credit he did.


one thing in the back of my mind is can one of the betas please test. proximal in array type objects as it never used to work...has this been fixed...without making the array editable???? v important if you're still working on it.

like the throw back to ditools cloner naming...the only way to go!

fletchman
04-19-2006, 05:36 PM
First Hair, then Mograph now C4D 9.6! I just reached into my bare wallet and finally upgraded my copy of XL 8. Maxon, you guys rock!!!

medula
04-19-2006, 05:43 PM
Well, I just pre-ordered the Mograph module. There goes my tax return money!

Where did you pre-order it? I don't see it? Are you pulling my leg? Come on man, what gives?

URL me please!

ghopper
04-19-2006, 05:58 PM
pre-order by phone - I don't think it's on the website yet.

TimC
04-19-2006, 06:50 PM
one thing in the back of my mind is can one of the betas please test. proximal in array type objects as it never used to work...has this been fixed...without making the array editable???? v important if you're still working on it.


How would you use proximal in this instance? I would say that proximal is not needed as all the effectors have falloff. You can also use things like particles to define the falloff (falloff has a source link so you can drag other objects, particles etc and use them to define the falloff). Proximal is really a shader effect so the shader effector with falloff would match this (in principle).

Depending on how you intended you use proximal. I could give you an example that matches the effect (probably).

cheers
Tim

JoelOtron
04-19-2006, 07:06 PM
How would you use proximal in this instance?
cheers
Tim

Hi Tim

Perhaps this is the srt of thing flingster is talking about?
Proximal shader is only seeing the center point of the gridarray object--not the generated instances.

http://www.betatronstudios.com/surg/b.jpg

http://www.betatronstudios.com/surg/a.jpg

AdamT
04-19-2006, 08:01 PM
Joel,
In your example, Proximal is just use the grid array and is ignoring the cloned spheres--which is exactly what happens with Mograph's cloner.

Now, if you want to use all of the clones, you can use a shader effector on the plane in deformer mode, and use the cloner as the falloff source:

AdamT
04-19-2006, 08:16 PM
Further, you can use a shader in the effector, along with the falloff, to control the effect however you like:

basilisk
04-19-2006, 08:56 PM
Release in May? that could be just over a week off, or six weeks off. Anyone got a feel for how close we are? I could be using this today! :drool:

williamsburroughs
04-19-2006, 09:07 PM
Maxon has once again stepped up to the plate and given us a solution that we didn't know we needed (well we did, but once again they over delivered). First came Hair with it's revolutionary workflow and features...and now this MoGraph set of tools.

These tools rock and i've had a chance to see them at work, and well...all I can say is that it's sick sick sick and I can't wait to see what everyone does with them.

Congrats to the team over @ Maxon for some great vision.

I know people will ask how it compares to Jenna, and all I can say is that Jenna pales in comparison to Mograph. Jenna served a purpose...but Mograph fills a void.

Everyone is gonna love these tools.

Great work Maxon!!! Rock the show @ NAB!

Weeeeeeeeeeeee

http://www.policarpo.us/movies/gross.zip

flingster
04-19-2006, 10:12 PM
my question was exactly really as joel pointed out...i'm guessing that by the replies it still doesn't work the way joel points out...HOWEVER....adam's solution kinda more than makes up for it really...i guess this effector type shader will be the way to go..thankie for checking guess its something that bugged me before with xfrog and it turned out it was c4d array not working with proximal ..whatever its not biggy but a pain if you don't want to make objects editable and be able to mograph them..heh heh. the fact you can do it makes me happy thankie...if i don't have to use proximal to do it then thats fine..cheers to all in helping out.

edit: was thinking about using proximal in changing colours on impacts or proximity etc...but deforming also is the similar application...the key was recognising the instance or cloned objects individually with the target.

also what about dicloner >result type results..eg merge/separate/instance/spline sort of features available in jenna interator>construction eg merge/separate/instance/spline/tp
presumably this sort of thing is possible?

also what methods of surface cloning are available?

Per-Anders
04-19-2006, 11:21 PM
It should be fairly (very) easy to make a shader that uses the mograph falloff (and that does see most things, tp, splines, editable geo verteces, motion graphics particeles, c4d particles) using the C++ SDK, or even make one using xpresso and vertexmaps driven the the falloff xpresso node in in MoGraph. Maybe at a later point I can put together a step by step for making that (for those who feel the desire). Of course the deformatino already has access to this stuff, so if it's just for the sake of deforming things then that's already there without the need of shaders.

Proximal itself should (in theory) work with the Matrix object (though I'll have to double check it), and that makes all the same shapes as the cloner object.

spirozero
04-19-2006, 11:44 PM
Where did you pre-order it? I don't see it? Are you pulling my leg? Come on man, what gives?

Yep, by telephone. Just call Rafi.

JoelOtron
04-20-2006, 12:16 AM
Further, you can use a shader in the effector, along with the falloff, to control the effect however you like:

yeah, but bet you cant you pop a wheelie with no hands on the bars.
;)

Thats looking great--thanks Adam.

AdamT
04-20-2006, 01:26 AM
yeah, but bet you cant you pop a wheelie with no hands on the bars.
No, and I have the scars to prove it. :)

JIII
04-20-2006, 01:57 AM
I just want to post a big huge thank you to everyone who has ever gave me hints on how to make proximal work. I can usually do most things reasonably well but actually making proximal do ANYTHING, has eluded me for years, don't ask me why, but suddently, I got it , and proximal is doing things for me :-).

Cheers,

-J3

flingster
04-20-2006, 01:58 AM
No, and I have the scars to prove it. :)

oh adam don't sell yourself short buddy...we all know you're the king at swallow diving backflipping face dives....ewhhhh grit face....
:eek:

LucentDreams
04-20-2006, 02:03 AM
No one except me and Tim?posted while I was making my post

Johnny Jpeg
04-20-2006, 02:50 AM
I'm just glad Maxon does things like going back and fixing problems that are versions old (the animated texture in the viewport thing). Lots of companies won't bother fixing existing problems when they can add a new feature they can sell (even if said feature adds no value and is primarily hype). Even one company doing things like fixing legacy problems, giving away significant upgrades for free (9.6), and releasing Universal Binary versions of their software in such a timely fashion makes an impact on the whole industry. Maybe Maxon's example will sway some other companies away from their semi-passive adversarial stances against their own customers.

Thanks.

MJV
04-20-2006, 03:47 AM
I'm just glad Maxon does things like going back and fixing problems that are versions old (the animated texture in the viewport thing). Lots of companies won't bother fixing existing problems when they can add a new feature they can sell (even if said feature adds no value and is primarily hype). Even one company doing things like fixing legacy problems, giving away significant upgrades for free (9.6), and releasing Universal Binary versions of their software in such a timely fashion makes an impact on the whole industry. Maybe Maxon's example will sway some other companies away from their semi-passive adversarial stances against their own customers.

Thanks.

Agreed. It would have been a slightly hollow victory if Maxon had given us this great new Mograph module and not addressed what was arguably the biggest impediment to using Cinema for motion graphics, the no animated textures in viewport thing. Instead, Maxon stepped up to the plate and hit one out of the park for a late inning come from behind victory to put them first place in the standings. Cinema should just kill at NAB this year with this package because there is little else in its league that even compares.

GruvDOne
04-20-2006, 04:15 AM
I have to echo the sentiments of Johnny Jpeg and MJV. Maxon is one of the best companies around for listening to their customers. Something as small as finally being able to animate start and end growth of Sweep NURBS is a HUGE deal.

Just recently I was making a lower 3rd element for an interview we did with RZA and the lengths I had to go through to achieve what should have been fairly simple was ridiculous. This one simple fix solves that problem for me for future projects.

I can also think of no other 3D software with such an aggressive update cycle. I mean it seems we were at version 7. And it's not just that they update so often, but the features that have been added in that time have been incredible. It hasn't been just a bunch of silly bolt-ons. I am pleased I stuck to my guns with Cinema at a time when everyone was telling me that if I wanted to be serious about 3D, I had to go to Maya. But, I had a feeling that C4D was going to make itself a force to be reckoned with, and it seems my hunch is proving more and more true all the time.

Hurry up May! ;)

AkaKico
04-20-2006, 04:31 AM
Just agreeing with Will. Everyday I find more things that make me glad I'm a c4d guy, everything Maxon does and this great community here.



Something as small as finally being able to animate start and end growth of Sweep NURBS is a HUGE deal. ;)

Such a small thing! And something I've wanted sooo bad for a long time. That alone makes 9.6 a must have :D

JIII
04-20-2006, 05:18 AM
Defintely, Maxon uses these forums and user input not as a way to stroke the companies ego, or to hype up their products, but as a tool. Most companies have their CEO or someone running around here saying 'amazing' things that never realllly seem to happen fully, or on time. I haven't seen maxon do that yet, despite the fact that I am pretty sure they have the largest group of staff here using the forums.

Go Maxon :-)

-J3

AdamT
04-20-2006, 05:26 AM
Yep, it always impresses me that they don't make excuses. If someone asks Srek, for example, if they can do xyz, and you can't do it, he'll just come right out and say it. No hemming and hawing or trying to baffle you with BS. Not that there's much you can't do with Cinema these days. :)

Erik Heyninck
04-20-2006, 05:52 AM
The next module will be called (shake your) Moneymaker. Codename is "Miss Moneypenny" as, at the moment, it only produces pieces of one Europenny.
Problem will be the price tag. How much more can you get out of it than that you invest in it? Word goes it'll come in several flavours, ranging from basic (for one puter) over rentpayer to infinite (for huuuuge renderfarms).

Jokes aside, I'd say: "You have been well trained, Darth Maxon. They will be no match for you."

One question: is there something like Ralf in it? (Or is it a first step towards Icecoffee, Maxon's own fluids module?)

Sneaker
04-20-2006, 06:40 AM
wow that looks great.
I have one question that I'll find out anyway as soon as MoGraph is available ;).
Can the Falloff Deformer be used to deform a single mesh,
like the falloffs in modo to create morph targets etc..?

-Michael

Per-Anders
04-20-2006, 06:44 AM
Not sure what you mean there, you can restrict the deformation of deformers in MoGraph to a single mesh if you want (just like with any deformer in Cinema). There's no "falloff deformer" as such. The Effectors have falloffs, the Displacer deformer has a falloff, and the Falloff Xpresso node obviously has a falloff. How and where you use them is up to you, it's a procedural modeling toolset. Once youre' happy with a shape you can of course do Current State To Object, and that will create a version of your mesh with the deformation "frozen".

If you're proficient with Xpresso then you can if you want rig the falloff to drive a vertexmap using xpresso and use the to restrict deformation of... well anything that allows vertexmap restriction (so most deformers etc).

Incidentally for those intersted in the development side the falloffs are exposed in the API so you can build new falloff types and use the falloff mechanism in your own plugins (and as new falloff plugins are made they will become available throughout every tool that uses these falloffs), an example of a new falloff type is in the SDK.

ooo
04-20-2006, 07:51 AM
Weeeeeeeeeeeee

http://www.policarpo.us/movies/gross.zip

A genuine Policarpo again! So Mograph will be good news for all of us, even if we only make gross movies ;)

odo

LucentDreams
04-20-2006, 12:01 PM
One question: is there something like Ralf in it?
nothing like ralf in moGraph as its not focused on better support and contorl over real flow simulations, Ralf is definitely a unique plugin in that its suits a very powerful specific need.

That Said one thing not mention if the Motion vector pas which allow you to render passes for Reelsmart motionblur and such so between that and the passes already added for 9.5 Vixol users are completely covered.

robotbob
04-20-2006, 12:04 PM
That Said one thing not mention if the Motion vector pas which allow you to render passes for Reelsmart motionblur and such so between that and the passes already added for 9.5 Vixol users are completely covered.

very nice ! - is this a 9.6 upgrade or a mograph module export option.

LucentDreams
04-20-2006, 12:15 PM
I believe its part of 9.6

mustardseed
04-20-2006, 01:46 PM
Kai, does 9.6's Motion Vector pass handle overlapping objects better than Vixol?

cornel
04-20-2006, 02:09 PM
yeah yeah nice, but what about my hat-module??? :-)


couldn´t resist.

bobtronic
04-20-2006, 02:17 PM
yeah yeah nice, but what about my hat-module??? :-)

wait til siggraph :p

Bob

unseenthings
04-20-2006, 03:10 PM
Incidentally for those intersted in the development side the falloffs are exposed in the API so you can build new falloff types and use the falloff mechanism in your own plugins (and as new falloff plugins are made they will become available throughout every tool that uses these falloffs), an example of a new falloff type is in the SDK.

That sounds great... while we're on the subject of the SDK... will there be an Effectors example in there somewhere, so we can code our own??

thanks!

Byla
04-20-2006, 04:13 PM
This module definatly rases the bar for the next major Cinema release at siggraph. I am now even more certain that we will see huge improvements in timeline and character animation, perhaps even node based material editor and action recorder. Now, that would we sweet as!

Apart from that, congrats to Maxon.

LucentDreams
04-20-2006, 05:56 PM
Kai, does 9.6's Motion Vector pass handle overlapping objects better than Vixol?

Not sure waht you mean, waht issues were there. do not e alot ofthe issues you'll find when overlapping objects or parts of objects is thatthe whole precess is somewhat limited, I mean theres no data underneat an object to blur against so if one object if overlappin another it sgoing to blur the two together :/ Motion vector passes are not flawless by anymeans.

Per-Anders
04-20-2006, 05:58 PM
That sounds great... while we're on the subject of the SDK... will there be an Effectors example in there somewhere, so we can code our own??

thanks!

Yes, there are two in fact.

Antosha Marchenko
04-20-2006, 06:45 PM
GREAT news !!!

it is deciding reason for me to migrate to Cinema4D (from MAX)

unseenthings
04-20-2006, 07:48 PM
Yes, there are two in fact.

Killer! Thanks for the info...

squidinc
04-20-2006, 09:57 PM
wow... just.. wow :applause:

destro80
04-21-2006, 01:25 AM
Great to see the motion graphics functions from the plugins being move inside of C4D. :thumbsup:
Now we just need the Timeline tidied up (Hint, Hint) and I'll be in motion graphics heaven.

mustardseed
04-21-2006, 01:40 AM
Not sure waht you mean, waht issues were there. do not e alot ofthe issues you'll find when overlapping objects or parts of objects is thatthe whole precess is somewhat limited, I mean theres no data underneat an object to blur against so if one object if overlappin another it sgoing to blur the two together :/ Motion vector passes are not flawless by anymeans.

Yes, those are the issues I was referring to - where objects overlap it doesn't blur accurately(if at all). When I last wrote to Revision about this they said they might have found a fix and might be working on it, so I was hoping Maxon got to the problem first.

Another question, how exactly does Matte Objects differ from Object Buffers?

Thanks again!

destro80
04-21-2006, 03:08 AM
I just noticed....this thread started just 2 days ago and already has over 10,500 views...

boxy
04-21-2006, 08:58 AM
For the love of God, is there anything Maxon can't do? And all this before SIGGRAPH, what's next?

Mocca 3, the Motionbuilder Killer? :D
Boxy

soccerrprp
04-21-2006, 11:25 AM
Mocca 3, the Motionbuilder Killer? :D
Boxy

YAH! But, let's not forget about Cactus Dan's current AND latest rigging solutions (soon to come). They may well be the foreshadowing to what R10 may be aspiring towards???

CD, please, when will your latest additions to CDIKTools be ready?!

These are great days for c4d users!:bounce:

wuensch
04-21-2006, 11:27 AM
Mocca 3, the Motionbuilder Killer? :D
Boxy

with the recent development considering Motionbuilder since Autodesk bought Alias this would be VERY desirable.
Shame on Autodesk for ruining an excellent software that was platform-independent and plugged into all the main 3d apps---

Kaydara R.I.P. (they were a really customer oriented company, *sigh*)

robotbob
04-21-2006, 11:38 AM
motionbuilder 7 is so good mocca 3 will be hard pressed to compete.

dans new tools ARE amazing and i cant wait to get them but motionbuilder's one click rigs have to be seen to be believed.

i dont think maxon will beat CD for CA anytime soon so my advice is put mocca out of your mind and invest in CD.

pedro

michaeli
04-21-2006, 11:40 AM
Mocca 3, the Motionbuilder Killer? :D
Boxy

Let's wait and see.... :bounce:

moka.studio
04-21-2006, 11:45 AM
with the recent development considering Motionbuilder since Autodesk bought Alias this would be VERY desirable.
Shame on Autodesk for ruining an excellent software that was platform-independent and plugged into all the main 3d apps---

Kaydara R.I.P. (they were a really customer oriented company, *sigh*)

Which is the reason I will not purchase Autodesk prodcuts.
They definitely are not the kind of company that I would like to support.
Why is it that FBX made with earlier versions used to import fine, while the latest ( for exemple those coming out of Max 8) cannot be read?...
I really dislike these corporate juggernauts...

marshalartist
04-21-2006, 11:57 AM
What has all this got to do with MOGRAPH, let's see some more examples please!

robotbob
04-21-2006, 12:00 PM
conversations are not always strictly linear my friend.

wuensch
04-21-2006, 12:40 PM
motionbuilder 7 is so good mocca 3 will be hard pressed to compete.

dans new tools ARE amazing and i cant wait to get them but motionbuilder's one click rigs have to be seen to be believed.

i dont think maxon will beat CD for CA anytime soon so my advice is put mocca out of your mind and invest in CD.

pedro
Having played with Hash-Animationmaster & the setupmachine (originally developed for Hash) or Messiah:Animate Iknow that there are other very good solutions for animation & autorigging/rigging, -- only they dont plug into Cinema as MB does .


Oh-- and marshallartist, you are right-- this has nothing to do with MoGraph (isn't it time for someone to bash the pricing of MoGraph, as it usually happens when maxon publishes a new modul?).

But it has a lot to do with the direction c4d is heading (which i like a lot).

Olli

marshalartist
04-21-2006, 01:02 PM
Oh well just carry on then, don't mind me :-)
just hungry to see more

wuensch
04-21-2006, 01:06 PM
Oh well just carry on then, don't mind me :-)
just hungry to see more

so am I ;-)

TonyL
04-21-2006, 01:21 PM
With the speed that Maxon are producing first-class Modules, some of the big guns must be looking over their shoulders. Newtek must be getting worried at least (note their recent price drop). Surely, it is time to reconsider the position of C4D in the field? Its ease of use means work produced faster, and therefore a more viable choice when it comes to studio software; at least studios must be considering putting it into the workflow and multi-training their people.

As for Maxon "poaching" ideas, if you asked someone to think up a means of carrying people great distances, you'd probably come with the idea of a car with 4 wheels. That doesn't mean that you have poached someone else's idea.

Ask those in the field what their idea of motion graphics is and you would probably get a rough idea of what Mograph "should" offer in facilities. The fact that these facilities come close to those in Jenna is coincidence only. How different should those facilities be before the poaching remark is no longer applicable, and then how useful would it be to motion graphics people?

Whatever next? -- TL

LucentDreams
04-21-2006, 06:04 PM
funny you should mention that wuensch, I am rather surprised no serious complaints about pricing or screwing plugin developers at all really, after how the hair release went (and R9 with the modeling tools vs mesh surgery I was expecting more complaints, but hoenlsty this is the best reaction I've seen to a cinema release since R8, very positive.

Just wanted to point out, based on Tony's good comment, in regards to maxon's module system, while some may hate the pricing system and hate that new modules aren't included int he studio bundle pricing till the next major release, the best part about maxon's modules is that they can release an huge toolset mid way through major versions, which jsut doesn't happen anwhere else. I mean all the apps seems to have the occasional patch to fix bugs and add a few features like XSI's recent 5.1 upgrade, but no one release entire huge new tool sets between wholve version numbers. Maxon's released Hair and MoGRaph. Pretty Darn good if you ask me, and if this is what comes out inbetween full versions, imagine what the ful version will have to offer.

Overall a nice thign to think that one didn't have to wait months or possibly even years for MoGraph simply because of how long the next full version takes.

flingster
04-21-2006, 08:32 PM
funny you should mention that wuensch, I am rather surprised no serious complaints about pricing or screwing plugin developers at all really, after how the hair release went (and R9 with the modeling tools vs mesh surgery I was expecting more complaints, but hoenlsty this is the best reaction I've seen to a cinema release since R8, very positive.


well darf decided not to comment which is understandable, and as for remo its hard to say his thoughts...also hard to say what it can/can't do incomparison with something like ditools how much further remo can take or wants to take ditools is anybodies guess. i still think cloning should have been in c4d awhile ago so very happy to see it...there was always a user need for jenna type plugs and given darf moved on from c4d dev maxon i guess decided to give it ago since everyone was pretty unhappy at loosing jenna long term. one other thing which is good about this module is the ability to do this stuff 64bit which currently no plug services and has just made me rethink my move.

there is an animation/example of objects cloned on the surface of a face...i'm assuming they are aligned via polygon what other options are available? and secondly is it possible to get less patching to it or less obvious placement to polygons...what are you talking about i hear you shout. right simply the placement is very dense around the mouth and eye areas of the mesh...this is because of the dense polys in this area...and yet very sparse in the larger single poly areas like forehead or cheek etc....i want to know whether its possible to get a more smooth uniform placement of objects...i wouldn't expect it to be able to do this since jenna/ditools etc etc can't currently...but would like to be able to in the future...a sort of relative proportionality to poly scale if that makes sense..maybe over an area or poly grouping..dunno how you would do it..but want to...so look less mesh topology based and more surface curvature based.

bobtronic
04-21-2006, 08:43 PM
right simply the placement is very dense around the mouth and eye areas of the mesh...this is because of the dense polys in this area...and yet very sparse in the larger single poly areas like forehead or cheek etc....i want to know whether its possible to get a more smooth uniform placement of objects...

you can also distribute the clones in a random fashion, think hair.

Bob

slouchcorp
04-21-2006, 08:44 PM
so am I ;-)

ok heres a few quily renders i did while playing with the beta nothing fancy

http://www.c4dportal.com/Slouchcorp/mgvids.zip



ill start some tutes this weekend, hit up for any requests for what youd like to see

mike

AdamT
04-21-2006, 08:46 PM
there is an animation/example of objects cloned on the surface of a face...i'm assuming they are aligned via polygon what other options are available? and secondly is it possible to get less patching to it or less obvious placement to polygons...what are you talking about i hear you shout. right simply the placement is very dense around the mouth and eye areas of the mesh...this is because of the dense polys in this area...and yet very sparse in the larger single poly areas like forehead or cheek etc....i want to know whether its possible to get a more smooth uniform placement of objects...i wouldn't expect it to be able to do this since jenna/ditools etc etc can't currently...but would like to be able to in the future....
You can do this already. :) When cloning on a poly object you can align the clones to points, polys, edges, or surface, which distributes the clones randomly as you requested.

http://www.3danvil.com/temp/megclone.jpg

JamesMK
04-21-2006, 08:51 PM
You can do this already. :) When cloning on a poly object you can align the clones to points, polys, edges, or surface, which distributes the clones randomly as you requested.

Exactamundo. And this (and the other modes) can be further controlled using set selections:

TimC
04-21-2006, 08:53 PM
there is an animation/example of objects cloned on the surface of a face...i'm assuming they are aligned via polygon what other options are available? and secondly is it possible to get less patching to it or less obvious placement to polygons...what are you talking about i hear you shout. right simply the placement is very dense around the mouth and eye areas of the mesh...this is because of the dense polys in this area...and yet very sparse in the larger single poly areas like forehead or cheek etc....i want to know whether its possible to get a more smooth uniform placement of objects...i wouldn't expect it to be able to do this since jenna/ditools etc etc can't currently...but would like to be able to in the future...a sort of relative proportionality to poly scale if that makes sense..maybe over an area or poly grouping..dunno how you would do it..but want to...so look less mesh topology based and more surface curvature based.

you can choose vertex, polygon centre, edge or surface. Surface is a random placement. You could also control this via a texture using the shader effector and a good UV map (then you could control transformations very accurately over the surface)

cheers
Tim

edit : soo sloow

flingster
04-21-2006, 09:05 PM
ok cool...can you scale the clone to fit the polygons size?

AdamT
04-21-2006, 09:07 PM
ok cool...can you scale the clone to fit the polygons size?
No, try builder for that. :)

flingster
04-21-2006, 09:10 PM
No, try builder for that. :)

cheers adam what's builder? like a mesh array thing or something...more infos please?

spirozero
04-21-2006, 09:17 PM
What has all this got to do with MOGRAPH, let's see some more examples please!

I agree. More examples!

Anyone?

AdamT
04-21-2006, 09:29 PM
cheers adam what's builder? like a mesh array thing or something...more infos please?
Oh sorry, that was the beta name for Astrofish's FusionThing plugin. I can't change the name in my brain. :)

flingster
04-21-2006, 09:35 PM
can you tell me some more about cloning on a spline also please?

spirozero
04-21-2006, 10:11 PM
ill start some tutes this weekend, hit up for any requests for what youd like to see

How about some fancy text & TP examples?

slouchcorp
04-21-2006, 10:13 PM
How about some fancy text & TP examples?

text i can do:) TP ill leave to people like tim i dont know anything about TP

mike

AdamT
04-21-2006, 10:23 PM
can you tell me some more about cloning on a spline also please?
Here's a quick runthrough of the basic spline clone options (techsmith codec): http://www.3danvil.com/Mograph/splineclones.avi

spirozero
04-22-2006, 12:29 AM
text i can do:) TP ill leave to people like tim i dont know anything about TP

How about covering some of the techniques you used in the mgvids clips? I especially liked render2, room1, and trendflower1. Flower1 is really nice, too.

aigle
04-22-2006, 06:52 AM
ok heres a few quily renders i did while playing with the beta nothing fancy


Hey slouchcorp, are you kidding ;)...tz nothing fancy...man these "quickly renders" are great.
Really looking forward for your tuts.

Ciao

ooo
04-22-2006, 07:14 AM
Hi Sloughcorp, thanks for these really cool examples. :thumbsup:
This Mograph thing is so impressive! I wouldn't be surprised if this forum gets flooded with new C4D-users in the coming months.

odo

laurent
04-22-2006, 08:45 AM
Mike! those are super cool! you got shit load of talent man, I realy loved "render2" (you might want to choose better names for your work dud:)

flingster
04-23-2006, 03:35 PM
Here's a quick runthrough of the basic spline clone options (techsmith codec): http://www.3danvil.com/Mograph/splineclones.avi

thanks adam good of ya...whats that blend mode doing?
like some of those results very cool. also presumably you can clone to the actually spline point positions so you could just distribute the clones to the point location. very cool maybe i've missed that looks more that capable but maybe just missed it.

JoelOtron
04-23-2006, 03:51 PM
Have the TS codec--but not working for me. Maybe because its an avi...

ooo
04-23-2006, 03:58 PM
Have the TS codec--but not working for me. Maybe because its an avi...
It only works fo me (mac QT7) when I download the file. It won't play from the browser. dunnowhy

odo

flingster
04-23-2006, 03:58 PM
Have the TS codec--but not working for me. Maybe because its an avi...

i just went and downloaded the top link
http://www.techsmith.com/download/codecs.asp
techsmith screencapture codec and worked fine for me..whether its mac/intel whatever didn't check to be honest and doesn't say.

JoelOtron
04-23-2006, 04:10 PM
It only works fo me (mac QT7) when I download the file. It won't play from the browser. dunnowhy

odo

yup--that worked.

Thanks odo

guypapyrus
04-24-2006, 01:46 AM
Pardon the continued off-topicness, but...

Having played with Hash-Animationmaster & the setupmachine (originally developed for Hash) or Messiah:Animate Iknow that there are other very good solutions for animation & autorigging/rigging, -- only they dont plug into Cinema as MB does

Olli, I thought Messiah was designed to function as a plugin to C4D, among others? From their site:

messiah:animate/studio can be used as a stand-alone animation package or as a powerful addition to Maya, 3D Studio MAX, LightWave and Cinema 4D. One of messiah's many unique capabilities includes the ability to set up an animation and, through messiah's host connections, run that animation and use it in any of the host programs messiah can connect to.

http://www.projectmessiah.com/x4/products_main.htm

AdamT
04-24-2006, 05:10 AM
thanks adam good of ya...whats that blend mode doing?
like some of those results very cool. also presumably you can clone to the actually spline point positions so you could just distribute the clones to the point location. very cool maybe i've missed that looks more that capable but maybe just missed it.
Blend isn't really appropriate for the scene I had there, since the objects were completely different. But if you have, e.g., cube primitives with different parameters it will blend between them. Also works for lights, which is pretty cool.

AFAIK you can't place clones on spline points directly, but there's are ways to do it if that's what you really want.

Per-Anders
04-24-2006, 05:28 AM
Blend will blend editable splines too (not just primitives), and as Adam stated any objects of a similar type basically. Oh and it works in all the clone modes, and you can control the blend explicitely using effectors and their falloffs (just as you can control which clone goes where using the effectors in the other non blend modes).

Cloner doesn't have an option for cloning directly on the splines verteces, however in "Count" mode it distributes according to the splines own divisions (the other modes use realworld units for distribution), therefore if you set teh spline to be linear and have none for intermediate points (and set the clone count to the same number as the points) then the result is clones on the points themselves. There are other ways to do this too, and of course you can go the other way around using tracer, and make a spline that goes through all the clones (with a point in the center of each clone), or through a bunch of objects, so the objects/clones control the spline.

rsquires
04-24-2006, 07:32 AM
It's all looking very exciting indeed.

One of the first things I want to try is a lightdome with MoGraph. Anyone done this and how easy is it to set up HDRI images to colour the lights?

regards

Rich

ollle
04-24-2006, 08:07 AM
It's all looking very exciting indeed.

One of the first things I want to try is a lightdome with MoGraph. Anyone done this and how easy is it to set up HDRI images to colour the lights?

regards

Rich

I tried it with lights (when you use the shader effector, you can even color the lights), the blending with cloned lights works also (the colors are blended).

wuensch
04-24-2006, 08:24 AM
Pardon the continued off-topicness, but...



Olli, I thought Messiah was designed to function as a plugin to C4D, among others? From their site:



http://www.projectmessiah.com/x4/products_main.htm
[/size][/size]



I am not up-to-date what the Messiahs-bridge concerns-- In the past (like: a year ago or so, i wont even talk about 3 years ago where i owned messiah 3) a usable connection to c4d was only possible with quirks and tricks-- it worked, but was nor what i would call a reliable solution-- there was talk about pointoven to be used as a more reliable solution-- really dont know , could be that all is fine these days .

Dont want to do them any wrong.

Messiah is an extremely powerful CA app by the way, far surpassing the possibilities of MB in many respects and witha lot of unique concepts (like re-usable pseudo-weightmaps and the possibility to change your weighting at any time during animation-- even add a few bones while animating , also the stunning solution to use more than 1 skeleton to deform your character in a hirarchical way 8i.e: one for the motion, one that only fixes certain deformation problems)-- good and usable import of mocap and nice ways to edit the data--Motionbuilder might be slightly ahead there but not toofar---- I was really fond of it but put it aside due to the never-solved bridge problems.

Messiah was designed as a plugin for Lightwave (thats where it shines). All other connections were not nearly as usable AFAIK.

If they really have a good and stable workflow for c4d these days i would really like to know.

Suricate
04-24-2006, 09:52 AM
I personally use both messiah and C4D. I haven't used the plug-in connection recently, but think there are still some quirks. I rather use MDD files for exporting the deformations from messiah and import them into C4D with my own free 'MDD Reader'/'MDD Writer' plug-ins. In its latest version, messiah has MDD support natively built in, so you don't even need PointOven.

In general, I think that C4D and messiah is a powerful combination, even though the workflow is quite different between these apps, messiah is more like LW in many respect. However, C4D and messiah complement each other well, C4D is very strong in quite some areas : Hair, clothilde, bodypaint, non-photorealistic rendering and (to get back on topic :)) in motion graphics, while messiah excels in CA. So, especially when you are a freelancer or in a small studio, this is a powerful combination.

flingster
04-24-2006, 03:38 PM
Blend will blend editable splines too (not just primitives), and as Adam stated any objects of a similar type basically. Oh and it works in all the clone modes, and you can control the blend explicitely using effectors and their falloffs (just as you can control which clone goes where using the effectors in the other non blend modes).

Cloner doesn't have an option for cloning directly on the splines verteces, however in "Count" mode it distributes according to the splines own divisions (the other modes use realworld units for distribution), therefore if you set teh spline to be linear and have none for intermediate points (and set the clone count to the same number as the points) then the result is clones on the points themselves. There are other ways to do this too, and of course you can go the other way around using tracer, and make a spline that goes through all the clones (with a point in the center of each clone), or through a bunch of objects, so the objects/clones control the spline.


crikey this sounds cool...another question though...stop me when you've had enough.

lets say in the past you emitted particles and with CP/loco/ditools you then used ParticleSPLINE / ParticleTRACER /Xspline....eg spline linking all particles or spline generated from source emitter...particles linked together in one long spline or particle with there own individual splines...then would this sort of thing be possible? also could you clone on the spline being generated from the emitter BUT to those spline points on it as you wouldn't know the amount of points as it would be changing as the spline is being emitted. does this make sense.
inshort.
emitter...create linked spline from emitted particles (ala particle spline)...clone on splines points

spirozero
04-24-2006, 03:56 PM
Bummer. I was hoping the weekend would produce some more videos and/or tutorials.

I wonder if Maxon will be showing off new Mograph videos at NAB? Adam & Kai - we'll be expecting hourly updates ... with lots of photos! :)

JamesMK
04-24-2006, 04:03 PM
particles linked together in one long spline or particle with there own individual splines...then would this sort of thing be possible? also could you clone on the spline being generated from the emitter BUT to those spline points on it as you wouldn't know the amount of points as it would be changing as the spline is being emitted. does this make sense.
inshort.
emitter...create linked spline from emitted particles (ala particle spline)...clone on splines points

Something like this?

Per-Anders
04-24-2006, 06:41 PM
crikey this sounds cool...another question though...stop me when you've had enough.

lets say in the past you emitted particles and with CP/loco/ditools you then used ParticleSPLINE / ParticleTRACER /Xspline....eg spline linking all particles or spline generated from source emitter...particles linked together in one long spline or particle with there own individual splines...then would this sort of thing be possible? also could you clone on the spline being generated from the emitter BUT to those spline points on it as you wouldn't know the amount of points as it would be changing as the spline is being emitted. does this make sense.
inshort.
emitter...create linked spline from emitted particles (ala particle spline)...clone on splines points

hi, sorry i never used cpt or loco (though i did test a very very early beta of the particle tracer, i seem to recall it could only trace the paths of the particles at the time), and with ditools i've not used it in a long time since i bought it at 1.0, but then didn't upgrade it when remo increased the version numbers. i can't remember what xspline did exactly, so I'm having a hard time picturing exactly what you mean here.

like i said the tracer object can make a spline that goes thorugh particles and objects connecting them together or it can trace their paths. so it can connect multiple objects or particles into seperate splines per object/particle group/mograph generator, or into a single big spline (in addition to it's normal tracing), you can then clone on the generated spline, however as i said there isn't a mode of the cloner that clones directly on the splines verteces. there are modes that use a count and modes that use a realworld step, but there's no vertex clone for splines. in this situation with a single big connecting spline (if that's what youre' getting at) then this doesn't make much sense anyway, as there are already clones/particles at the vertex points of the spline.

sketchbook
04-24-2006, 08:31 PM
Just wanted to point out, based on Tony's good comment, in regards to maxon's module system, while some may hate the pricing system and hate that new modules aren't included int he studio bundle pricing till the next major release, the best part about maxon's modules is that they can release an huge toolset mid way through major versions, which jsut doesn't happen anwhere else. I mean all the apps seems to have the occasional patch to fix bugs and add a few features like XSI's recent 5.1 upgrade, but no one release entire huge new tool sets between wholve version numbers. Maxon's released Hair and MoGRaph. Pretty Darn good if you ask me, and if this is what comes out inbetween full versions, imagine what the ful version will have to offer.

Overall a nice thign to think that one didn't have to wait months or possibly even years for MoGraph simply because of how long the next full version takes.

never thought of it that way. good point. it's also financially beneficial for maxon, which is good.

mercy, severity
04-24-2006, 09:18 PM
Bummer. I was hoping the weekend would produce some more videos and/or tutorials.

I wonder if Maxon will be showing off new Mograph videos at NAB? Adam & Kai - we'll be expecting hourly updates ... with lots of photos! :)

haha well honeslty I'm on my small break right now, cause honelsty its been sooooooooo busy here, mogrpah seems to be very popular,especially with the after effects plugin pavillion

Keep an eye out for any articles or video From Ko though, I'll find out form hiim hen his stuff wil be online and post it for you guys.
.

aaaaaand apprently I didn't log amanda of so I'm posting as her now :D This is Kai

LucentDreams
04-24-2006, 10:15 PM
posting in the right account now :)

I'll post a video later, I can't get the link to work.

Thats the video, adam is taking lots of photos but we'll have to find time to upload.

williamsburroughs
04-24-2006, 10:42 PM
posting in the right account now :)

I'll post a video later, I can't get the link to work.

Thats the video, adam is taking lots of photos but we'll have to find time to upload.
Let me know if you need space to post it, I can place it on my site.

Is this video from NAB?

Hello Maxon!!! :)

Duffdaddy
04-25-2006, 12:21 AM
sorry to change topics yet again, but just wondering, Srek, were these last frames of the show reel done in the motion module?
I'd do this kinda thing a number of ways currently. If I was C4D I'd use Jenna/Iterator or I might use DiTools and simply animate/scale an object along a spline. Of course I could also do it in AfterEffects.. Was it done MoGraph? If so what effectors were used?
I'm asking because I'm curious about the solid pattern effect.
I know if I use a spline in C4D my patterns would be hollow.

AdamT
04-25-2006, 12:23 AM
Yeah, very sorry guys, but I forgot to load PS or *any* damned image editing app on my laptop, so all I have right now are huge jpegs. I'll try to offload them onto Kai's notebook so he can do something with'em. Also switching the camera over to RAW + *small* jpeg so I can post future pics directly. Still three days to go, so plenty of opportunities. :)

In the meantime, anyone know of a free image editing app for download that I could use to resize the big jpegs?

So far people seem really impressed by MoGraph--as they should be!

Jorge Arango
04-25-2006, 12:26 AM
Yeah, very sorry guys, but I forgot to load PS or *any* damned image editing app on my laptop, so all I have right now are huge jpegs. I'll try to offload them onto Kai's notebook so he can do something with'em. Also switching the camera over to RAW + *small* jpeg so I can post future pics directly. Still three days to go, so plenty of opportunities. :)

In the meantime, anyone know of a free image editing app for download that I could use to resize the big jpegs?

So far people seem really impressed by MoGraph--as they should be!

Photoshop demo? (Don't know if it's allowed for that use).


Jorge Arango

Per-Anders
04-25-2006, 12:26 AM
sorry to change topics yet again, but just wondering, Srek, were these last frames of the show reel done in the motion module?
I'd do this kinda thing a number of ways currently. If I was C4D I'd use Jenna/Iterator or I might use DiTools and simply animate/scale an object along a spline. Of course I could also do it in AfterEffects.. Was it done MoGraph? If so what effectors were used?
I'm asking because I'm curious about the solid pattern effect.
I know if I use a spline in C4D my patterns would be hollow.

I can't say as I don't know where it was made, however if it was done in Cinema then it would be done using the spline mask in the motion graphics module.

Per-Anders
04-25-2006, 12:28 AM
Adam your best bet it to try www.versiontracker.com or www.downloads.com

bobtronic
04-25-2006, 12:35 AM
In the meantime, anyone know of a free image editing app for download that I could use to resize the big jpegs?

Paint.NET

http://www.eecs.wsu.edu/paint.net/


cheers,
Bob

Duffdaddy
04-25-2006, 01:41 AM
I can't say as I don't know where it was made, however if it was done in Cinema then it would be done using the spline mask in the motion graphics module.

Thanks Per. Can I ask...How does the spline mask work?

And AdamT - how bout Gimp?

Per-Anders
04-25-2006, 01:57 AM
Spline Mask is like the boole tool but for splines, so path controls essentially, it optionally allows you to make a cap on the resulting single spline, I believe Tim showed some basic examples earlier on in the thread and Mike's examples showed it's use too.

Duffdaddy
04-25-2006, 02:02 AM
Spline Mask is like the boole tool but for splines, so path controls essentially, it optionally allows you to make a cap on the resulting single spline, I believe Tim showed some basic examples earlier on in the thread and Mike's examples showed it's use too.

Cool, I'll have a look for them. Ta.

Duffdaddy
04-25-2006, 02:35 AM
Nope. can't see anything on the spline mask specifically, and one of Mikes threads is now no longer working...

Per-Anders
04-25-2006, 03:03 AM
oh well, i could have sworn someone posted a simple example. anyhow here's a quick example:

http://www.peranders.com/general/splinemask01.jpg

unseenthings
04-25-2006, 03:03 AM
Paint.NET

http://www.eecs.wsu.edu/paint.net/

cheers,
Bob

I've heard a lot of good things about Paint.NET as well... though I think it requires the .NET framework (I know, I know... DUH!) -- if you don't have that, try the (fully functional) 30 day free trial of Photoimpact at http://www.ulead.com (http://www.ulead.com/pi/runme.htm) -- it's an excellent graphics program. It's not photoshop, but it's been around a while and is quite good. I've used it as my primary 2D app for years.

michaeli
04-25-2006, 03:14 AM
oh well, i could have sworn someone posted a simple example. anyhow here's a quick example:

http://www.peranders.com/general/splinemask01.jpg

Wow , the ultimate spline boolean tools ? It's magic ! :eek:

Duffdaddy
04-25-2006, 05:11 AM
oh well, i could have sworn someone posted a simple example. anyhow here's a quick example:

Ah, cool, thanks - that helps. So simple and so nice.

Srek
04-25-2006, 06:15 AM
sorry to change topics yet again, but just wondering, Srek, were these last frames of the show reel done in the motion module?
It was made using MoGraph.
Cheers
Björn

Duffdaddy
04-25-2006, 06:37 AM
It was made using MoGraph.
Cheers
Björn

Ah, Srek, there you are. Can you explain how? Was it with the spline masks? How are the path lengths animated using MoGraph?

slouchcorp
04-25-2006, 06:40 AM
Ah, Srek, there you are. Can you explain how? Was it with the spline masks? How are the path lengths animated using MoGraph?

you use the spline mask inside a loft. if youve done any compositing its like using animated masks, using one to revel the other, so you have spline 1, the design. spline 2 a mask that covers it all, and you animate the spline2 move accross spline 1 to revel it.

HTH Mike

Duffdaddy
04-25-2006, 06:51 AM
thanks Mike. that's kinda like how I'd do it in AE..

neosushi
04-25-2006, 08:10 AM
you use the spline mask inside a loft. if youve done any compositing its like using animated masks, using one to revel the other, so you have spline 1, the design. spline 2 a mask that covers it all, and you animate the spline2 move accross spline 1 to revel it.

HTH Mike

Absolutely Correct :) Spline Maske was used to reveal the final shape of the Ornaments. Before that i, worked the ornament a bit. In Cinema4D i added a Guidspline (<-That's my term for the spline which the reveal spline will follow :)) It's simillar to AE. The main difference is that you are able to animate the Camera, plus you have more controll over the F-Curve as in AE. I really love that feature, btw :) *well one of those are there :)*

cheers
::neosushi::

Duffdaddy
04-25-2006, 08:35 AM
hmmm, really interesting David. That's what made me curious. When I saw it, I thought it's "AE", but got wondering if it's now possible with MoGraph, then there are added possibilities with complex camera and spacial animation. Can't wait to get my copy of MoGraph.

neosushi
04-25-2006, 10:58 AM
hmmm, really interesting David. That's what made me curious. When I saw it, I thought it's "AE", but got wondering if it's now possible with MoGraph, then there are added possibilities with complex camera and spacial animation. Can't wait to get my copy of MoGraph.

Just another small Information on the Spline Mask Object:
SplineMask Movie (http://www.wicked-design.de/mograph/splinemask.mov)
&
Object Manager Setup
http://www.wicked-design.de/mograph/splinemaskom.jpg

ghopper
04-25-2006, 11:04 AM
In the meantime, anyone know of a free image editing app for download that I could use to resize the big jpegs?

Quick and painless: http://www.irfanview.com/

Zendorf
04-25-2006, 12:20 PM
Oooh yeah, that splinemask is gonna be so useful!

I would love some info on the new extrude effect and spline wrap...any takers?

Is the displace deformer more like Nickl or does it show displacement realtime ala Displaceview?
Also, is the fft sound node in Mograph only or will it be in the core version of 9.6 like the standard sound node?

Cheers...