Boot Camp Windows is fast- But it won't run 3DS Max.

[toonman]

Well, in the Autodesk support forum, someone has been posting for several days results from benchmarking 3ds max on a Mac Book Pro... I guess the guys that wrote the review had some problems with the installation..

[markdc]

They're using max 5.1 which I think uses the old licensing software. Maybe the other guy is running max 8.

[chesterlampwick]

Just a point of interest. A friend of mine has XSI running on a 20" imac - says it runs like a dream! The max thing certainly sounds like a licensing issue.

[mmkelly011881]

hows this for another reason not to jump yet

link::
Some customers are complaining that they're not able to get back into OS X once they load Windows. Some say they've had to reformat their hard drives. (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=345198)

[spacefrog]

the benchmark on the official max forum runs max 8

i did the test with my AMD X2 4400 machine for about €1100
( compared to the MacBook Pro/iMAC Core Duo for about €2000)

and my machine is about 25-35% faster in all of them...

[salmonmoose]

the benchmark on the official max forum runs max 8

i did the test with my AMD X2 4400 machine for about €1100
( compared to the MacBook Pro/iMAC Core Duo for about €2000)

and my machine is about 25-35% faster in all of them...

Yeah, but i bet your machine doesn't look like a bar of soap :)

[Phelix]

the benchmark on the official max forum runs max 8

i did the test with my AMD X2 4400 machine for about €1100
( compared to the MacBook Pro/iMAC Core Duo for about €2000)

and my machine is about 25-35% faster in all of them...

I was just wondering if that €1100 included the price of a monitor?

[Gunnah]

I was just wondering if that €1100 included the price of a monitor?

not to mention, you cant dual boot in to osx on that amd machine ;)

[Apoclypse]

Yeah, but i bet your machine doesn't look like a bar of soap :)

LOL. You guys are all crack ups. :)

[CupOWonton]

I was just wondering if that €1100 included the price of a monitor?
You can get a big high quality screen for $300 and under. It'd still be cheaper.

[spacefrog]

not to mention, you cant dual boot in to osx on that amd machine ;)
hmmm i believe to remember that there's an nonofficial OSX out which runs on Intel...
does it NOT run on AMD's ?

price is with 19"CRT monitor - but all self selected and assembled ;-)

did a quick checkup with europrices (in austria)


CPU AMD X2 4400...........470
HD 160GB...................80
DVD RW.....................35
RAM CorsairXMS 1GBKit......95
MB MSI/Neo2Platinum.......110
Case+PSU...................40
CRT Syncmaster 19"........180
Keyb, Mouse, etc...........60
---------------------------
Sum.....................€1070,-

[Phelix]

hmmm i believe to remember that there's an nonofficial OSX out which runs on Intel...
does it NOT run on AMD's ?

price is with 19"CRT monitor - but all self selected and assembled ;-)

did a quick checkup with europrices (in austria)


CPU AMD X2 4400...........470
HD 160GB...................80
DVD RW.....................35
RAM CorsairXMS 1GBKit......95
MB MSI/Neo2Platinum.......110
Case+PSU...................40
CRT Syncmaster 19"........180
Keyb, Mouse, etc...........60
---------------------------
Sum.....................€1070,-

I was just wondering if that €1100 included the price of a copy of Windows XP and OS X?

[Phelix]

I think a machine that's been built by yourself is always gonna be cheaper. Plus those pesky MacBook Pros (worst name ever) are kinda/sorta designed as notebooks so the price will always be a bit of a chunky fellow.

iMacs are in all honesty consumer computers. It's why they come with things like remote controls and webcams built into them (which you pay for). If you was going to be buying a rendering machine, you wouldn't really be going for a laptop or a consumer computer.

But this thread's about running 3DS Max on one of em, so we shouldn't go too far off topic.

[magan3D]

I have one simple four letter word that sums up everybodies problems with bootcamp.


B E T A



Yep, you heard it here first folks. This isn't a full release, its still in "testing"






(I was laying the sarcasm on pretty thick if you couldn't tell:D)

[williamsburroughs]

3dsmax 8 runs fine on the MacBook Pro running Windows SP2. I downloaded the demo of 3dsmax last week and ran a few rendering and modeling sessions...and well...it felt just fine on the machine...aside from 3dsmax's natural 'bloat' feeling we have all come too love and accept. :)

C4D, XSI, 3dsmax and Maya all seem to run as usual on the MacBook Pro laptops...but if it were me...i'd just wait until the summer when the Intel 64bit mobile chips are released...cause, heck, ya know...they'll be first in the MacBook Pro machines. :)

[eek]

OK, i just had an apifany! - i watched the final cut pro 'profile' videos and was blown away that david fincher is now using it. Seriously i think im gunna go a buy a powerbook at the end of this year, final cut,shake. I mean for say around 7,000$ your set! Its unbelievable! And with boot camp- just load max/maya onto xp!!

eek

[stew]

With BootCamp, an Intel Mac runs XP just like any other PC would. Which is why I bought this MacBook :) - developing for Windows and OS X on just one laptop, what more could I want?

So far, everything that runs on my Desktop PC runs also on the MacBook - Shade, Blender, Poser, and that yet-to-be-released application X - no complaints. The only bummer is that it still has only one button on the trackpad, so I need my Microsoft mouse to get serious work done.

[eek]

With BootCamp, an Intel Mac runs XP just like any other PC would. Which is why I bought this MacBook :) - developing for Windows and OS X on just one laptop, what more could I want?

So far, everything that runs on my Desktop PC runs also on the MacBook - Shade, Blender, Poser, and that yet-to-be-released application X - no complaints. The only bummer is that it still has only one button on the trackpad, so I need my Microsoft mouse to get serious work done.


what about the mighty mouse?

eek

[maX_Andrews]

you mean a macbook? just so you know final cut is already a universal binary and shake is going universal next month, so all of apple's pro apps are running at native speed on the macbook pro.

Final cut and associated apps really are great. I picked up final cut in about a week and have always looked forward to using it. Sometimes I open it just because I am feeling creative :)

[nuclearfessel]

Just a point of interest. A friend of mine has XSI running on a 20" imac - says it runs like a dream!


those are good words to my ears... i was hoping that XSI would run on BootCamp...

i take it he was able to install it without any hitches?

[stew]

what about the mighty mouse?
I can't work with the Mighty Mouse. The tiny scollball gives me cramps, and the "squeze" button lacks tactile feedback so I often press it accidentally. In terms of mice and keybard, I prefer Microsoft over anything else.

[maX_Andrews]

I don't like that weird scroll ball on the mighty mouse either. It's not so much that I don't like the idea but it feels chalky and it just plain hurts my finger to use. It's a shame because otherwise I like all of mighty mouse's features.

Ohhh i just got a cool idea:
apple mouse with built-in ipod-style clickwheel to control music without switching applications. Wheel surface would function as an omni-scroll control in every app, and play/pause/next/previous/enter buttons would be user-programmable per-application, like the griffin powermate. There would be a thumb-activated force switch that would toggle the controller between per-app controls and itunes control. So to select and edge loop you would just press, for example, the next track button, and to change the song playing in itunes you'd press a little hrder with your thumb, and press the same button. I like it.
OOOOOOOOOh even cooler...pressing the thumb force switch would pop-up a small itunes "widget" on the left or righthand side so you could scroll through songs and select playlists etc.
I like it more.

[stew]

then you might like this:

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/nulooq/

[maX_Andrews]

Ahh yes I have seen this, but it's like $150 and is not a mouse. Since apple gets the click wheels for under a dollar each to use in the ipod, I see no reason why they don't just put it and its associated electronics into a damn good mouse. The silly/painful scroll ball goes against their design philosophy in nearly every way possible.

Tell me you don't want one:
http://www.3dfightclub.com/~madmax/uploads/clickmouse.jpg

So the thumb side button activates itunes controls over application controls, and the menu button brings up a mini-itunes interface if the thumb button is also pressed. Instead of the touch buttons for clicking i'd rather just have a rocking design, so that clicking toward the left is a left-click and clicking toward the right is a right-click. That leaves the fingers free for the click-wheel. If apple makes this i'm soooo suing them :-P

[JDex]

Ick... Mice have 4 standard buttons and a scroll wheel/button... if it doesn't meet this configuration it is a relic or a gimmick. :D :beer:

[CupOWonton]

My mouse is from the space age. 7 butons and a scrollwheel.

[norritt]

did anyone try running XSI or Maya on a parallels or vmware WinXP? Working with WinXP in virtualisation sounds also interesting.

[stew]

Buy me a Maya or XSI license and I'll be happy to try it out for you. ;)

[TopherMartini]

Buy me a Maya or XSI license and I'll be happy to try it out for you. ;)
You can always try Maya PLE (http://www.alias.com/glb/eng/forms/maya_ple_form.jsp) and the trial of XSI Foundation (http://www.softimage.com/downloads/default.aspx?downloadid=1) :thumbsup:

[norritt]

You can always try Maya PLE (http://www.alias.com/glb/eng/forms/maya_ple_form.jsp) and the trial of XSI Foundation (http://www.softimage.com/downloads/default.aspx?downloadid=1) :thumbsup: gogogo! :applause:

[TonyEdwards]

gogogo! :applause:
Agreed. I'd be interested in hearing about these results...

XSI specifically.

[John-S]

The mighty mouse is the best of my four or so mice I've tried. The scroll ball took a week to get used to but now its UNBEATABLE in my opinion. The side buttons activated on accident? What??? You have to squeeze the things...they are touch sensitive but not that kind of touch sensitive. You have to actually apply pressure to do anything.

Maya (or whatever 3d app)
Small Monitor (or any but the small one proves my point)
Tons of open windows

Mighty mouse
Side buttons > Expose
Left Right click > Normal
Scroll ball clicker > Middle button

Its a lifesaver : )

-it does make my wrist hurt after 5 or so hours though-

[salmonmoose]

My mouse is from the space age. 7 butons and a scrollwheel.

11 buttons, and a tilting scroll wheel, and an extended range.

[CupOWonton]

What the hell are you using? Does it have 3 buttons per left/right button on a standard?

[rls669]

Heh. I used to use my CH Pro Throttle for 3d apps. 20 controls altogether on a comfy ergonomic handle, 3 buttons mapped to CTRL, Shift and ALT and the other 17 to other keys. Depending on how configurable the app was I could have one command programmed for each control by itself, one for ALT-control, CTRL-control, Shift-control, ShiftL-ALT-control . . . well you get the idea.

Sadly, the old hardware doesn't function under XP and I haven't been able to justify the cost of upgrading.

[salmonmoose]

What the hell are you using? Does it have 3 buttons per left/right button on a standard?

It's the Logitech MediaPlay

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=3,CONTENTID=9340

It was bought with the intention of being a makeshift remote for a media PC, but then I bought an Xbox (and then a 360) So it's now my work mouse, coupled with my Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 (http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=043) the only keyboard I've ever seen that tilts backwards.

[Saturn]

Well xsi work very well on the Macbook pro.

Only one issue, and a big for me :

No delete key on the keyboard.

[ThomasMahler]

Well, then use something like Sharp Keys to remap a key that you'd normally not use. Issue solved.

[jason-slab]

great news:surprised

[Fess]

I really don't understand the pot-head logic of jobs or who's ever incharge over at apple.

They discontinue Shake for Windows, leaving users with the ridiclous options to buy a mac>to learn shake.....

Now, debut's "Boot Camp".

STOP SMOKING 20 SACKS!!! :argh:

Glad the last "mac" i owned was a commodore 64 :cool:

Fess

[John-S]

or linux....

[pixelmonk]

or linux....

or linux what? Unless you're referring to the fact that Shake runs on it? Completion.

[pixelmonk]

I really don't understand the pot-head logic of jobs or who's ever incharge over at apple.

They discontinue Shake for Windows, leaving users with the ridiclous options to buy a mac>to learn shake.....

Now, debut's "Boot Camp".

STOP SMOKING 20 SACKS!!! :argh:

Glad the last "mac" i owned was a commodore 64 :cool:

Fess

yeah Apple has always been all over the map. One Mac commercial claims it supports devices better than the PC, however, Apple has support on the PC side for their myriad of Ipods. Also, they force people to install iTunes with Quicktime on the PC that includes that lame Ipod service. Yes, I know about the non-published link for the NON Pro version of QT on their site but most people don't. They claim the OS works better and has more functionality, yet they come out with Boot Camp so people can boot to XP and to top it off, they went with Intel for their core, which for years was a competitior to Apple (for it's involvement in PCs). Jobs waffles more than that chicken head person in politics. I laugh every time I see an Apple commercial, all of which are completely inaccurate and look like the fat kid on the dodge ball court saying "pick me.. pick me!". It makes for good fantasy. Meanwhile, it's competitors just say "Hey.. this is what I can do for you.....", dissing the competition by not even recognizing them. I know why they do it... for the chance at getting that one or two extra .05% market share. It's still laughable and mockable. :)

[beaker]

I really don't understand the pot-head logic of jobs or who's ever incharge over at apple.

They discontinue Shake for Windows, leaving users with the ridiclous options to buy a mac>to learn shake.....Yea, they have no idea what they are doing. Thats why at the last 3 Shake user group meetings since Apple bought Nreal, the amount of people there has quadrupled. I went to the very first one in 99 and there were maybe 75-100 people there.

There are now dozens of medium sized shops running 90% osx now for their workstations. They would have never switched to it if Shake wasn't dumped on windows. Warner Bros for example is moving 150 Shake licenses from linux to osx.

I'm not agreeing with Apples decision to dump windows, just pointing out that their gamble paid off pretty handsomly. Also Motion/Apeture(1.1) are the result of many people from the Shake/Sgrail/Chalice team.

[CupOWonton]

Yea, they have no idea what they are doing. Thats why at the last 3 Shake user group meetings since Apple bought Nreal, the amount of people there has quadrupled. Technicaly all that means is shake as a program was desirable, not Macs.

[chadtheartist]

Well xsi work very well on the Macbook pro.

Only one issue, and a big for me :

No delete key on the keyboard.

This is a keyboard remapping utility designed for Win XP on the MacBook Pro.

http://www.olofsson.info/

I haven't tried it myself, but I will once I get the MacBook.

[almux]

Yea, they have no idea what they are doing. Thats why at the last 3 Shake user group meetings since Apple bought Nreal, the amount of people there has quadrupled. I went to the very first one in 99 and there were maybe 75-100 people there.

There are now dozens of medium sized shops running 90% osx now for their workstations. They would have never switched to it if Shake wasn't dumped on windows. Warner Bros for example is moving 150 Shake licenses from linux to osx.

I'm not agreeing with Apples decision to dump windows, just pointing out that their gamble paid off pretty handsomly. Also Motion/Apeture(1.1) are the result of many people from the Shake/Sgrail/Chalice team.

Well nothing to wonder so much about. All these deals and commercials are just a common $-£-€ war. The ever ending war for monney.
Windows does everything to blind and dump customers... and Apple is just about giving the small change back. No mystery.
It's surely a pitty... but mankind is just still so far from becoming human...

[Fess]

Yea, they have no idea what they are doing. Thats why at the last 3 Shake user group meetings since Apple bought Nreal, the amount of people there has quadrupled. I went to the very first one in 99 and there were maybe 75-100 people there.

There are now dozens of medium sized shops running 90% osx now for their workstations. They would have never switched to it if Shake wasn't dumped on windows. Warner Bros for example is moving 150 Shake licenses from linux to osx.

I'm not agreeing with Apples decision to dump windows, just pointing out that their gamble paid off pretty handsomly. Also Motion/Apeture(1.1) are the result of many people from the Shake/Sgrail/Chalice team.


Point taken. But still bully tatics non-the-less......

Its clear that "Apple" attitude is introverted with "Shake", with little regard for the "individual" user.

I'll kick my goose to lay a few golden eggs>dash to the mac store buy a G5 with Shake>.........NOT!

Fess

[CupOWonton]

I wonder what would happen to Apple if Adobe pulled the rest of its software off of macs.

[williamsburroughs]

I wonder what would happen to Apple if Adobe pulled the rest of its software off of macs.

Well...not much really. Apple showcased some serious Image Editing tools over the past several years which I am sure have made Adobe angry...ergo the delay on releasing UB versions of their existing CS line.

Just imagine Motion as a still image editor. :)
Or a fully realized Pages application (iWorks suite)

[maX_Andrews]

There is also a very new application called lightzone for OSX that is aiming to be a photoshop replacement. It allows you to manipulate light zones within a photograph which is something that photoshop sorely lacks, and is neccessary for black and white photographs.

http://www.lightcrafts.com/

[John-S]

Apple pull adobes software off the macs? I went to the first release of the new adobe studio in LA (which I didn't care for the software with the exeption of after effects) with the main guys of adobe and they stated it being thier decision to pull some of the software off the mac. They might bring some of it back but since apple makes equivelent software, the apple users are going for the apple software since they feel it is superior. This makes it hard for adobe to justify some mac software. Especially since apple is such a threat to adobe lately.

[almux]

I work with Adobe's apps since my beginnings with comptuter stuff (Mac classic b/w 9"). Yet, like sad before, more and more OSX apps are replacing most of Adobe's offerings.
The Final Cut Pro suite is, to my opinion, far better than AE and so forth... The only dark point, with Adobe getting away from Apple, is by the fact Macromedia has been eaten off.
Now, will Adobe really play the game of loosing a growing crowd of customers? This is just another question.
On the other hand, macusers don't have to fear lot about applications running on windows "only" since everything will perfectly run on any Mac supporting next Leopard OSX (1° Parallels kind of thing built in the OS and 2° The EFI script will be built within the OS, making useless to install windows on a Mac. Most probably sooner than expected)

[CupOWonton]

There is also a very new application called lightzone for OSX that is aiming to be a photoshop replacement. It allows you to manipulate light zones within a photograph which is something that photoshop sorely lacks, and is neccessary for black and white photographs.

http://www.lightcrafts.com/

That realy only replaces photo EDITING, but as a program, photoshop is used for more than simply tweaking existing image. Honestly, a lot of work done in graphic design on a mac centralises around Photoshop And Illustrator.

[John-S]

Apples suite does not replace after effects. Motion can handle alot of 2D stuff better then After Effects but After Effects lets you work in 3D etc. I have a feeling we will see a motion pro but until then. Nothing Replaces After Effects in the Apple Suite unless Motion is all you need. I do not : ( After Effects is a must for me : )

Apple could make a photoshop challenger but I doubt that would be for a couple years. Apple don't want to scare adobe users off. Thats why the call motion a complement to After Effects basically. Its all a gradual process. Photoshop is a must on a mac for a long time to come : )

Don't get me wrong...I'm a die hard Final Cut Studio User and think all the Studio programs smash Adobe's with the exeption of After Effects : )

(I do prefer motion for whatever I can use it for though)

[eek]

Photoshop has lasted nearly 25 years, its not going anywhere in a while, both parties adobe and apple would be nuts not to support each other.


eek

[beaker]

I wonder what would happen to Apple if Adobe pulled the rest of its software off of macs.Apple would buy some little app that has potential and really smart programmers but not the financial backing. If there is a windows version they will kill it :). Then turn it into a killer apps and kick Adobe's ass. FCP, Dvdstudio, Motion, Shake, Emagic, etc... anyone?

Adobe who dropped Premiere on mac is now porting it back to osx. How about that for ironic.

[John-S]

beaker, did you go to Adobe's Studio launch at the MGLA meeting this year? It was pretty funny I thought (although I did enjoy the meeting). Adobe shows up to promote their product etc and its a room full of a couple hundred Apple users. I seen the point in the After Effects demo but otherwise......

(post not meant to badmouth Adobe or MGLA in any respects)

[beaker]

I don't understand what you mean? AE runs on osx, so everyone there can run the software. MGLA is mostly AE users (trish and chris meyer run the group). I haven't been to one in a couple years but Adobe sponsered MGLA meetings.

[Lone Deranger]

Actually.. it's more like 19 years give or take... and about 16 years commercially. :thumbsup:

Photoshop has lasted nearly 25 years, its not going anywhere in a while, both parties adobe and apple would be nuts not to support each other.


eek

[John-S]

beaker, your right. I said I seen the point in After Effects....trish and chris meyer are running the show....they are all about AE (and write good training resources for AE). I was just meaning that Adobe was there to sell the studio and show it off. I heard most people either wispering or plain out stating that they are Mac users and Premier etc isn't available for mac.....whats the point in listening to a speach on Premier if its not avail on the Apple Platform? Given there were a few PC users but from what I heard from people was...."let us know when there is a mac version". Even then, most are FCP users : )

Adobe sponsers the show and were really nice people (as well as the MGLA), it just would have been nice for more people to hear more about After Effects then Premier since the odvious reason. I think alot of people at that meeting sent in their questioneers to adobe requesting a mac version of their products. Adobe said that they listen to their customers, so maybe thats part of the reason we will probably see Premier on the mac again.

In my opinion Adobe shouldn't have denied Apple years ago in creating the pro software together. Now Adobe will have to reap the consequences or take it up a notch : )

(at least in the mac enviroment)

[DoubleSupercool]

It will be interesting to see how Eyeon's Fusion goes. They are starting to push it more and the word is getting out. I wouldn't compare AE to Shake, I think Fusion is a more comparable app (and quite possibly more robust for film). Still Shake is flavour of the month and Macs have cool ;) Seriously though, a Shake/FCP machine is pretty darn powerful, but there are equivalents on PC as well.

[CupOWonton]

Apple would buy some little app that has potential and really smart programmers but not the financial backing. If there is a windows version they will kill it :). Then turn it into a killer apps and kick Adobe's ass. FCP, Dvdstudio, Motion, Shake, Emagic, etc... anyone?

Adobe who dropped Premiere on mac is now porting it back to osx. How about that for ironic.

Ah yes, because Apple is so awsome for buying FC from Macromedia and killing off the PC version before it ever hits shelves so they can shaft everyone who was waiting for it to hit PC. Yeah, THANKS ADOBE, YOU ROCK FOR BEING SO SICKENINGLY ELIETIST. :rolleyes:
Im surprised they havent already tried buying out one of the better freeware photoshop-ish programs already.

[almux]

Apples suite does not replace after effects. Motion can handle alot of 2D stuff better then After Effects but After Effects lets you work in 3D etc. I have a feeling we will see a motion pro but until then. Nothing Replaces After Effects in the Apple Suite unless Motion is all you need. I do not : ( After Effects is a must for me : )

Apple could make a photoshop challenger but I doubt that would be for a couple years. Apple don't want to scare adobe users off. Thats why the call motion a complement to After Effects basically. Its all a gradual process. Photoshop is a must on a mac for a long time to come : )

Don't get me wrong...I'm a die hard Final Cut Studio User and think all the Studio programs smash Adobe's with the exeption of After Effects : )

(I do prefer motion for whatever I can use it for though)

Mainly it's a matter of having the $ to achieve Shake to top on FC suite... Than things get quite a bit further...
I also have to admit that my AE license stoped at the time Apple came to PPC cpus... Last year at school (further education) i only could play a short time with AE... So certainly not enough to have a very objectiv overview of features... Yet, so far, there's nothing missing to my uses with working with Apple's cutting, compositing and post-production apps.

PS Back on my forlast post: i'm clearly no dev-ingeneer, so be kind to replace "EFI" by "API", thought the latest news would rather mention that Apple will leave to third parties devs the job of creating the mythical "Red Box" making all windows apps work on a Mac without windows installed (mainly because Apple isn't in a position to declare an open war to M$)...

[John-S]

almux, for some reason I'm not understanding what you are trying to say? However, Shake is way over AE from what I heard. I only know how to use AE though. I would imagine if Apple lowered the price of shake and included it into the Final Cut Studio....I would be stoked! Thats not going to happen though...(although there was a rumor of apple putting out a higher end FCP that would cost thousands, but that was a rumor a long time ago)

I believe Apple at some point will/should make a Motion Pro to eliminate Apple users from having to use AE. First they would need more people comfortable with Motion (which is growing rapidly), add all the features of AE and some....including 3D, get a million 3rd party plugins ready! Apples motion is far more user friendly in my opinion then AE, so I really hope this happends at some point soon.

You said 2 very true things...

1. MONEY (the root of all evil behind everything...LOL)
2. So far, there's nothing missing to my uses with working with Apple's cutting, compositing and post-production apps. (if you have shake, your probably right there, however with only Motion....your limited and just haven't discovered it yet : ) Apples Final Cut Pro Suite is miles ahead of any of the other software I've used. Its almost the perfect workflow. (once they include a fully featured compositing program with it...it will be perfect)

[Nicodemus]

Ah yes, because Apple is so awsome for buying FC from Macromedia and killing off the PC version before it ever hits shelves so they can shaft everyone who was waiting for it to hit PC. Yeah, THANKS ADOBE, YOU ROCK FOR BEING SO SICKENINGLY ELIETIST. :rolleyes:
Im surprised they havent already tried buying out one of the better freeware photoshop-ish programs already.

Actually, macromedia started down the road but decided against trying to market it since they had changed there minds about delving into the video market with all the changes that were taking place.

They sold it to Apple and were happy to be rid of it. Apple saw the potential, did further development of it and FCP was the result. I am not going to sit here and say apple has never put a foot wrong, but I am not going to fault them for recognizing and opportunity either.

I believe jobs did the same basic thing when he recognized the potential of Pixar and purchased it from Lucas. Again, he was looking at making a profit.....just worked out bettet than he thought.

Leslie

[CrazyAnimator]

So far there is limited amount of software, I guess the New Macbook/iMac news took the world by storm. Slowly the developers are working on this. I guess the developers had to dip into the XXX espresso when they got the news on Mac Hybrid. :D

But its nice to have a hybrid computer available again, it been too long since the Commadore Amiga with the daughter boards. So far, I'm quite impress with the Macbook Pro. And able to switch from Mac (darwin), X11 and Windows apps.


But I will not make the jump entirely **patting the PC** :thumbsup:

Richard Broza
Vancouver BC

[beaker]

In my opinion Adobe shouldn't have denied Apple years ago in creating the pro software together. Now Adobe will have to reap the consequences or take it up a notch : )Adobe was making a crap product and decided to redesign it from scratch. FCP was kicking their ass and they cut their losses and saw the opportunity to make more money by going after the windows crowd. It's a simple numbers game and the fact of doing business. I would have done the same thing.

[pixelmonk]

Adobe was making a crap product and decided to redesign it from scratch. FCP was kicking their ass and they cut their losses and saw the opportunity to make more money by going after the windows crowd. It's a simple numbers game and the fact of doing business. I would have done the same thing.

...and Premiere Pro 2.0 is starting to look and feel more like FCP. I'd say 1 or 2 more versions and who knows what will happen.

[John-S]

Adobe was making a crap product and decided to redesign it from scratch. FCP was kicking their ass and they cut their losses and saw the opportunity to make more money by going after the windows crowd. It's a simple numbers game and the fact of doing business. I would have done the same thing.

beaker, I was refering to this part of an article that Fortune Mag wrote with Steve Jobs:

"Apple assumed the Microsoft deal would inspire other developers to renew their comittments to the Mac, but when Apple solicited Adobe in 1998 to develop consumer-targetted software for working with home video or digital photos, Adobe "said flat-out no," Jobs recalled. That surprise decision, given Adobe's history with the Mac, is what prompted Apple to more agressively pursue the applications space and develop its own software. "We said, 'Okay, if nobody wants to help us, we're just going to have to do this ourselves,'" Jobs said."

I agree going to a widows software back then was what seemed to be the wiser choice back then, I think I would have done the same also. I'm just saying that Adobe has alot of software but isn't exactly leading in inovation these days. They have a huge customer base for a good reason but Apple is Growing very rapidly making little jabs back and forth with them until I believe we will see an All out WAR if Apple Releases a Photoshop, Illustrator and AE Challenger. If you notice they poked with Final Cut, They Poked with Motion, They poked with Soundtrack, They poked with Aperture, etc. They are dancing around Adobes main software it seems just waiting to strike. Not to mention iweb. Its a nothing program now but it shows they just may begin with web programs since they got such good response. All of this is my personal view on things, However if Apple continues....Adobe will be thinking twice about their decision in 98.

************added**************
as for premier looking like Final Cut, adobes whole suite is starting to replicate apples. All the programs matching and just working in harmony with eachother. Real odvious whats going on there isn't it....LOL
The problem being that Adobe may be a step ahead with AE (not to mention photoshop etc) but as for their video suite, they seem to be a year or two behind apples video suites features. So it may look the same now, but Apple will release its next version very soon and adobe will be lacking again for how long??? The same goes for the next few rounds....

[beaker]

as for premier looking like Final Cut, adobes whole suite is starting to replicate apples. All the programs matching and just working in harmony with eachother. Real odvious whats going on there isn't it....LOLAdobe's suites have been around for years before the FC studio one. Not that it really matters because all it is is a collection of apps with a slightly cheaper price. Premiere has been around for atleast 15+ years, Premiere pro was a rewrite of the original Premiere.

BTW Integration between Adobe apps has been there for over a decade. I remember when these abilities were a big selling point in the early 90's. Now, it is a given.

The problem being that Adobe may be a step ahead with AE (not to mention photoshop etc) but as for their video suite, they seem to be a year or two behind apples video suites features. So it may look the same now, but Apple will release its next version very soon and adobe will be lacking again for how long??? The same goes for the next few rounds....Yes, but it's still competition. Without competition, things become stagnant. Even Apple will stop innovating if there isn't any competitors. Premiere pro, Avid Xpress/DV/Composer are all good things and previously suffered from feature drought before FCP came around. Luckily they can all keep each other on their toes.

I don't care if they are a year behind or a year ahead, Competition is good.

[John-S]

Adobe's suites have been around for years before the FC studio one. Not that it really matters because all it is is a collection of apps with a slightly cheaper price. Premiere has been around for atleast 15+ years, Premiere pro was a rewrite of the original Premiere.

BTW Integration between Adobe apps has been there for over a decade. I remember when these abilities were a big selling point in the early 90's. Now, it is a given.
I am very aware of Adobes apps, history and integration methods. I have been using them for quite a while also. However I did notice a big difference in their video apps on this latest update. I agree they have been selling products as suites and integrating them for a long time, but this set of updates seemed to change the look of the GUI too look a heck of alot like another suite I know and the way the integrating is working on this round is a bit better. In my opinion Apple Created thier suite to look like no other and to have a workflow that wasn't achieved yet by adobe. They did the same with ilife. So I agree that this has been a selling point for adobe for years however I believe Apple kicked it up a notch and now Adobe is trying to catch up.

Yes, but it's still competition. Without competition, things become stagnant. Even Apple will stop innovating if there isn't any competitors. Premiere pro, Avid Xpress/DV/Composer are all good things and previously suffered from feature drought before FCP came around. Luckily they can all keep each other on their toes.

I don't care if they are a year behind or a year ahead, Competition is good.
I really couldn't agree more. Without competition things would really suck. I don't mind piggy backing on the leader, but if I believe there is a better product....I'm going for it! Since I'm a big Apple person right now though, I am glad of all the competition! It keeps the word Inovation around and that makes me happy : )

[almux]

almux, for some reason I'm not understanding what you are trying to say? However, Shake is way over AE from what I heard. I only know how to use AE though. I would imagine if Apple lowered the price of shake and included it into the Final Cut Studio....I would be stoked! Thats not going to happen though...(although there was a rumor of apple putting out a higher end FCP that would cost thousands, but that was a rumor a long time ago)

I believe Apple at some point will/should make a Motion Pro to eliminate Apple users from having to use AE. First they would need more people comfortable with Motion (which is growing rapidly), add all the features of AE and some....including 3D, get a million 3rd party plugins ready! Apples motion is far more user friendly in my opinion then AE, so I really hope this happends at some point soon.

You said 2 very true things...

1. MONEY (the root of all evil behind everything...LOL)
2. So far, there's nothing missing to my uses with working with Apple's cutting, compositing and post-production apps. (if you have shake, your probably right there, however with only Motion....your limited and just haven't discovered it yet : ) Apples Final Cut Pro Suite is miles ahead of any of the other software I've used. Its almost the perfect workflow. (once they include a fully featured compositing program with it...it will be perfect)

Well, i'll try to be a bit more precise.
a) I do work mainly at home where I only have one Mac G4 dual 1ghz. This machine is upgraded to work well enough with "light" stuff = Final Cut suite, graphical and small 3d production.
b) For heavy tasks, I drive to a professional studio (the less I can, because every hour has it's price) and work on Maya Unlimited to had fur and stuff or on Shake for effects I can't have done on Motion's simulated 3d tricks

Yet, most of the time, I will find the turn arounds to get the needed final visual results with what I got at home. But, with money been made, no doubt I will get more done at home! ;)

Now going back to the question of Shake going cheaper and Motion getting in a pro version... The question of a "magic" merging is on lips (at least of those who do beta testing) for more than a year...
What price is concerned... everything has already gone so much cheaper these last years!
Also, the question of middle ranged prices is often sticking to middle ranged products and to my opinion, for things like 3d, compositing and postproduction, middle ranged stuff is rather a no-no.

[bluemagicuk]

Run any 2 os's at the same time ... swop by alt + ctl .

http://www.parallels.com/en/products/desktop/

[beaker]

yes, but at the moment parallels and most other VM don't support opengl or any type of 3d acceleration from the video card. So running 3d apps through it is kinda slow.

[almux]

...someone still will read this : http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/95175/apple-mac-pro-is-crowned-the-fastest-pc-in-the-uk.html
Boot Camp has it's own benefit to run apps for windowsfans... ;)

[salmonmoose]

That article would carry a lot more weight if it actually showed what they were comparing against.

I'm willing to bet it doesn't hold a candle to the Apexx8 for instance.

[almux]

That article would carry a lot more weight if it actually showed what they were comparing against.

I'm willing to bet it doesn't hold a candle to the Apexx8 for instance.

Can't be compared. Many things different:
1) number of CPUs
2) number of ram
3) Size
4) Price

Of course there are faster computers... but here is the talk of performance/price range...

[beaker]

I'm willing to bet it doesn't hold a candle to the Apexx8 for instance.Multithreading really drops off between 4-8 processors. I remember having a 8 and 32 processor Onyx's and the rendering difference was pretty small. So the Apple will probably perform pretty close to the same as the Apexx8.

It's really in the boat of the application programmers to make their apps more parallel. Until then, your 8-16 processor machines are almost a waste. Maya 8 was the first release that did anything for multithreading beyond rendering.

[beaker]

Oh, btw, a fully configured Apexx8 is $US 70k.

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