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dragonlair81
04-10-2006, 06:50 AM
Okay heres my quick question. I was just wondering how many studios use muscle systems in their rigs. I have seen more stuff on muscle systems lately and was just wondering how many studios use them. Just curious. Thanks

instruct9r
04-10-2006, 09:43 PM
how many studios use them.

i can't quite understand the question, but i'll try.
How they use them. They buy a muscle plug-in. Create joints for the character then attach muscles betweet 2 bones on the desired place, then instead of the joints, you must paint weight on the muscles. Then you have a lot of options like dynamics on the muscles (soft bodies, etc...) When the animation of the character is done, you must create cash cuz the simulation is little slow and youre done.

One of the best muscle plug-ins are:

Comet digital muscle system
http://www.cometdigital.com/

CgToolKit - Muscle TK
http://cgtoolkit.com/muscletk.htm

also few videos about how MuscleTK works:

http://cgtoolkit.com/muscletk/features.htm


If you buy CGToolKit The Making Of LEON you will learn a lot of using Muscle TK on a character for film resolution, and its pretty cheap

http://cgtoolkit.com/makingof.htm

dragonlair81
04-10-2006, 09:51 PM
I know pretty much how they are used I was just wondering how many studios big or small use them?

Bonedaddy
04-11-2006, 02:59 AM
If the show requires it, you use it. Any serious studio that does a lot of character animation and needs that sort of deformation uses it. A studio may use it on one show and not on another. It all depends. Some write their own, some buy licenses.

M.E.L.
04-13-2006, 02:03 AM
The answer is really simple... most studios don't.

"Muscle systems" were all the rage for probably a year and a half or two years after the whole Lord of the Rings and Hellboy rampage. What people failed to realize was the time and actual manpower needed to generate such things in their own studios and well, now the craze isn't really there anymore :) In essence, bigger studios will be able to maintain such tehcnology while the smaller guys need to be more crafty and efficient.

-s

john_homer
04-13-2006, 02:36 AM
really depends on the project, pipeline and time... etc..
we dont use them.

.j

dunkelzahn
04-13-2006, 02:11 PM
Iīm currently animating muscles by hand using a combination of driven keys, smooth binding, clusters and Lattices. Itīs for medical visualization though, so I donīt add skin on top of that, although it would work. But I guess you were asking about commercial muscle systems, which we dontīuse...

Chris

Buexe
04-13-2006, 06:40 PM
The answer is really simple... most studios don't.

What people failed to realize was the time and actual manpower needed to generate such things in their own studios and well, now the craze isn't really there anymore :)

-s

That`s what I thought (just like the hype around humanIK), but than again my insight into bigger studios` pipelines is limited. I have built dozens of mainly cartoony characters and never needed cg muscles to obtain a certain deformation effect. What I am wondering is, why do I never hear of people that use sculpt deformers as muscles? It`s built into maya and gives you this typical skin sliding effect peeps seem to demand. Any reason that speaks against them?
my 2 cent

michaelcomet
04-13-2006, 09:59 PM
I may be wrong here but I believe the following studios for sure use them:

Pixar, ILM, R&H, Weta, Tippett (they just started using cMuscleSystem actually...) and DNA.

Actually at DNA we didn't use it fully on all characters, but did for some of the ones that made sense, like the frog character shown in the trailer. Mostly just because of timing of when things were ready. We did use it for other uses on almost all of the characters though besides "muscles".

My point is muscle systems are more than just sliding. Although that's an important feature and I think something missing in Muscle TK for example, not sure, but there are other benefits such as point jiggle, possibly skin self collision depending on the package etc... Plus in general it really DOES make things look more real or pluses the deformation and motion of the rig. Does it take more work, absolutely. Is it worth it? Probably depends on the project and budget.

Like I said there are usually other benefits, as mentioned above we threw it onto many of the rigs for "The Ant Bully" because it has some useful smoothing functionality for helping with skin deformation and crunching etc...

Anyhow my 2 cents...of course I am biased... :)

michaelcomet
04-13-2006, 10:00 PM
I also forgot to mention sculpts usually are used. But they also don't neccesarily give the control and deformation you'd get from a real muscle system. For example sculpts will cause some sliding, but the shaping/quality of that mixed with the fact you'd still need to do skin pulling/tugging or jiggle some other way which is typically something you'd get with a good muscle system...

john_homer
04-13-2006, 10:42 PM
I may be wrong here but I believe the following studios for sure use them:

Pixar, ILM, R&H, Weta, Tippett (they just started using cMuscleSystem actually...) and DNA.
:)

weta digital (mainly film) use their own muscle system.
weta productions (tv series) dont.

.j

nottoshabi
04-13-2006, 11:09 PM
I worked in tv series and we used it. We did not use a full body system but pieces to help with the deformations. Not all characters had it, just the ones that called for it. Sometimes since we used only a couple of riggs for multiple characters it was easier and faster to throw in a muscle or a movable deformer then to actually go in there and set a bone or to to help with the deformation. We were a small studio, but the r&d proved that sometimes it was called for it.


My 2 cents.

_vine_
04-18-2006, 02:58 PM
I think we should get straight immediately that not every studio uses muscle systems, however almost every studio uses some form of corrective system. This may be pose space deformers, blendshapes, extra joints, etc.

Also, keep in mind many studios use multiple solution interchangeably. Personally, I use muscle systems and extra joints to create my corrective shapes then bake those off into pose space deformers. I do this because pose space deformers simulate a lot faster than muscle systems.

To each their own.

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