PDA

View Full Version : rigging with and w/o clothes


tevih
04-04-2006, 06:44 PM
Hello all! :)

Noob alert!

I have a character that I may change his costume/clothes. Do I have to wait until I'm done modelling the clothes until I rig it? What if I want multiple costume setups? Do I have to set up a rig each time?!

(Using maya 7.0)

Thanks guys!

dunkelzahn
04-05-2006, 09:23 AM
You donŽt have to finish modelling all models, as you can add several meshes to one skeleton. So you may, create a base character, rig it and then add a costume here and a costume there. However modelling the clothes as part of your character has the advantage of your costumes not crashing through your character, although it will be a bit more work. If you post a screenshot or go a bit further into the details we might be able to help you a bit more.

(Aaaah, hereŽs something important though. Always create some sort of texture map for your mesh before you use skinning to bind it to your skeleton, as you will get into trouble doing it the other way round, because your texturing will go all bonkers.)

Cheers

Chris

tevih
04-05-2006, 01:43 PM
Thanks.

The problem with making the clothes part of the character is I would definitely have to do blend shapes all over again, right?

Is there a way to fix intersection of the clothes with the character?

(thanks for the tip about texturing!)

dunkelzahn
04-05-2006, 04:16 PM
Blendshapes? Yeah, for wrinkles and stuff like that youŽll need Blendshapes.

For the intersection issue there is no real masterplan, but you have several solutions:

1.Make your clothes Softbodies that are affected by your mesh (Really heavy on your machine, and I wouldnŽt recommend it unless you are a dynamics crack)

2.Use blendshapes and driven keys to correct intersections (Easy to learn, can be automated when hooked to the joints rotation axis)

3.Do your skinning really good, use the Paint Weights tool to create exactly the same weighting on your clothes and your body (YouŽll have to do the skinning anyway, so spending some time here might not be that bad)

4.This might sound like a total N00b advice, but anyway. If anything fails, then just hide the polygons that crash through your surface. By using keyframes you can make them visible and let them dissapear from one frame to the next one)


Hope that helped

Chris

tevih
04-05-2006, 11:23 PM
I'm not yet familiar with painting weights. As I said, Noob. But it sounds like the best method. I'm into being real nitpicky and getting into the details, and it sounds like this would be that. :thumbsup:

I'd love to do dynamics but I know my box can't cut that kind of performance. Some day....

p.s. - what I meant about doing blend shapes all over (but I now understand) - I thought I would have to do "polygon>combine" to make the character and clothes work on the same skeleton. Someone else clarified for me that I don't need to make it one object.


Thanks!

dunkelzahn
04-06-2006, 08:44 AM
You can bind several meshes to th same skeleton, so there is no problem to create your base character and then add clothing piece by piece. ThatŽs a quite useful workflow for you to start learning rigging. If your costumes are modifications of each other you might as well try to export your weighting from one costume and the import it on the next one.

Cheers

Chris

Ti22
04-24-2006, 12:28 AM
Blendshapes? Yeah, for wrinkles and stuff like that youŽll need Blendshapes.

For the intersection issue there is no real masterplan, but you have several solutions:

1.Make your clothes Softbodies that are affected by your mesh (Really heavy on your machine, and I wouldnŽt recommend it unless you are a dynamics crack)

2.Use blendshapes and driven keys to correct intersections (Easy to learn, can be automated when hooked to the joints rotation axis)

3.Do your skinning really good, use the Paint Weights tool to create exactly the same weighting on your clothes and your body (YouŽll have to do the skinning anyway, so spending some time here might not be that bad)

4.This might sound like a total N00b advice, but anyway. If anything fails, then just hide the polygons that crash through your surface. By using keyframes you can make them visible and let them dissapear from one frame to the next one)


Hope that helped

Chris

would it be possible to create a, lets say, a basic version of ur model (low poly, really low poly in the hundreds or thousands), kinda like a standin and make the cloth collide with the simple model instead of the character?

then bind the low poly version to the skeleton as well. would this work? making the block in model slightly larger could also help.

tevih
04-24-2006, 02:47 AM
I don't understand the point of making a stand-in model - why would you do that? why would results be any better/worse than just running the sim on the actual model? :?

I decided to do things this way (for now):

Create the model with and without the clothes. Create the blendshapes on the naked guy. Save. Edit the model and all the blendshapes by deleting everything below the neck (except limbs), and put the clothes on that, so there'll be nothing for the clothes to intersect with. I'll skin the two models separately. Slightly tedious, but not as technically challenging or resource-demanding. And really probably not *that* tedious. :p

dunkelzahn
04-24-2006, 09:34 AM
Hey Tevi,

Yeah, I agree with that. Nothing fancy on your first try. Keep it simple, so youŽll be on the safe side. There is a book on the drawing of wrinkles by William Eisner, which covers different types of clothing. It is quite cheap, bought mine for 15 bucks. Should be quite helpful for the blendshapes.

Good luck

Chris

Ti22
04-24-2006, 10:58 AM
I don't understand the point of making a stand-in model - why would you do that? why would results be any better/worse than just running the sim on the actual model? :?

I decided to do things this way (for now):

Create the model with and without the clothes. Create the blendshapes on the naked guy. Save. Edit the model and all the blendshapes by deleting everything below the neck (except limbs), and put the clothes on that, so there'll be nothing for the clothes to intersect with. I'll skin the two models separately. Slightly tedious, but not as technically challenging or resource-demanding. And really probably not *that* tedious. :p

point of stand in model is it will be faster "theoretically" to simulate since the poly count is much lower, computing collision and such will be much less demanding.

dunkelzahn
04-24-2006, 12:20 PM
I think Tevin is talking about creating the simulation by hand, as your approach is probably outside of his time budget.

Although I agree that your approach is quite timesaving, especially with the usage of a low-poly mesh. However keep in mind, that your approach will also demand in-depth knowledge of collision detection and physical and dynamic simulations, making it highly compley compared to TevinŽs "letŽs just fix it with blendshapes". Using somethin that might shatter on a first try is a bad idea in my opinion.

However using your approach on the next try probably is a good idea, especially if the customer demands more flexible clothing.

Cheers

Chris

tevih
04-24-2006, 02:28 PM
dunkelzahn is correct, however, just for the sake of me trying to understand what you're talking about Ti22 - Having a high poly shirt interact on low poly "stand in" character will be easier to compute than the regular model?

Another question - rather than blend shapes, if I'm creative with my weighting, shouldn't I be able to create creases and wrinkles where the character bends? I think this would probably give better results than blend shapes.

And thanks for the book recommendation; I'll look into it. :)

Ti22
04-26-2006, 12:21 AM
thing is wouldn't blendshape be tedious? i mean for every pose u gotta model ur shirt out.

the thing is I am new to this whole "cloth" simulation too and i am very curios, so I wanna know as much as tevih,

the reason i suggested my solution was that tevih said his hardware was prolly not powerful enough to handle dynamics, thats why i said what i said about the low poly stand in.

man any solution u use, i request u post a screenshot here, i wanna see how cloth is handled.

tevih
04-26-2006, 02:14 AM
Well, it's going to be a shirt, and the guy who's wearing it is kind of large - he'll be filling it out pretty well. That's why it won't be so necessary to have cloth sim on it. I've decided to do it the way I mentioned previously, and use a few cluster deformers. I can get away with maybe only 10 on the whole shirt.

CGTalk Moderation
04-26-2006, 02:14 AM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.