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jeremybirn
04-02-2006, 02:36 PM
Lighting Challenge #3 is on-line! It consists of a rabbit and a terrain model. Models are available for download in both NURBS and polygonal versions here:

http://www.3drender.com/challenges/

In professional lighting work, a lot of projects involve hair, fur, or vegetation, and the lighting process works somewhat differently than if you only needed to light smooth, bald things. The goal of this challenge is to add hair or fur to cover the rabbit and the ground (for the ground it would be grass and vegetation), and then show how well you can light and render this scene. You can use any software you want. It can be any season, weather, time, or mood.

Edit: This is an old challenge now. This thread is being archived. If you scroll down to the Challenge #3 section of the downloads page, you'll see that the models can still be downloaded for your tests, and also that a gallery has been made of top entries.

-jeremy

floze
04-04-2006, 08:18 AM
Heh, I thought the challenges got cancelled, glad you just moved it in the right place! ;)

Cant wait to get my hands on the bunny!

sonicstrawbery
04-04-2006, 11:18 AM
Those challenges are very interesting, thnax for bringing us this opportunity to practice guys !

I will try this one if i have time, i need to practice fur for my Journey so i will start here :)

Dan Wade
04-04-2006, 11:58 AM
Cool, another challenge to keep us all busy!
Good luck everyone.

Dan W.

Cypher666
04-05-2006, 04:45 AM
Great idea for a challenge, I'm in. I just finished readin Jeremy's book (Which was brilliant) and i'm ready to put some of that theory into practice. Two cyphers on the one challenge, kinda scary.

herbertagudera
04-05-2006, 09:34 AM
oh yeah! count me in...im excited...

sonicstrawbery
04-05-2006, 08:15 PM
Two cyphers on the one challenge, kinda scary.

haha, well let's see if our fur engine is bugging or no :D

sunshinebetter
04-05-2006, 09:20 PM
well i'm new in this particulary part of forum.. but i'll participe too..

neuromancer1978
04-06-2006, 06:29 AM
I will give it a shot. I tried to do FXWARS challenges, and even though I love effects, I just didn't have time. This however, I can do pretty well. Gotta love fur. Now the question remains.... Maya render, or Renderman??? hmm....

gorillapanse
04-07-2006, 08:35 AM
hey nice idea... thanks for this challenge... :thumbsup:

jorust
04-07-2006, 05:01 PM
Great challenge Mr. Bird.

Never done any furry stuff, so this I have to try.

MasterZap
04-08-2006, 06:44 AM
Are we doing the "single thread" thing again?

Regardless, lets just say my 1st try wasn't exactly.... successful... L O L ;)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f366/MasterZap/harebrain3.jpg

/Z

jeremybirn
04-08-2006, 03:21 PM
OK, half a point for being the first? :)

If you're moving forwards into developing the look of the fur, a great source for rabbit reference pictures is pbase.com (http://www.pbase.com/) . Search there and you get hundreds of people's pictures of rabbits. If you click on "original" resolution under them, a few people's rabbit galleries are high-megapixel shots that show exactly how rabbit fur looks up-close.

-jeremy

Ravix
04-08-2006, 08:57 PM
Hello! cg addicts! hehe ,, Jeremy this is a hard one , specially i never tried fur before , as far as i remember it doesnt cast the light very well, anyways i hope to have some free time for this interesting challenge ..

thanks again!

Ravix
04-08-2006, 09:01 PM
Are we doing the "single thread" thing again?

Regardless, lets just say my 1st try wasn't exactly.... successful... L O L ;)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f366/MasterZap/harebrain3.jpg

/Z


Lol buddy that looks more like a dog !!! hhehe i shouldnt laugh probably its so hard to do!

MasterZap
04-09-2006, 10:43 AM
Still not too great...

but...

...I also can't make up my mind if I'm gonna do a day hare...

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f366/MasterZap/harebrain7.jpg

...or evening hare...

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f366/MasterZap/harebrain6.jpg

/Z

Hamburger
04-09-2006, 01:16 PM
The evening looks more interesting.

MasterZap
04-09-2006, 04:05 PM
Oops, sorry guys, I was working so late on this image, I had to use the flash...

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f366/MasterZap/harbrain9.jpg

/Z

CourtneyCasper
04-09-2006, 06:25 PM
Hi there! I am new to posting on this forum, but here is my attempt with the bunny. Would love any critiques I can get.

Thanks!
Courtney

http://www.thefilehut.com/./userfiles/ccasper13/CCasper_bunny01.tifhttp://www.thefilehut.com/./userfiles/ccasper13/CCasper_bunny01.tifhttp://www.thefilehut.com/./userfiles/ccasper13/CCasper_bunny01.jpg

http://www.thefilehut.com/./userfiles/ccasper13/CCasper_bunny01.tif

francescaluce
04-10-2006, 12:43 AM
Oops, sorry guys, I was working so late on this image, I had to use the flash...:):)


ciao
francesca

TiskO
04-10-2006, 06:27 AM
Hey Jeremy cant wait to take you on :bounce:! Just downloaded the scene. ill pay with it when i have a couple of hours free

SheepFactory
04-10-2006, 06:43 AM
My god its the bunny from my nightmares! just when i was starting to forget this , damn you jeremy! :p

delpadre
04-10-2006, 07:52 AM
Here is what I have so far, let me know what you think. Thanks!

http://www.delpadre.com/bunny.jpg

sonicstrawbery
04-10-2006, 07:58 AM
CourtneyCasper : Man this one is beautiful ! :thumbsup: The fur looks so realistic, What is it made/rendered with ?

jeremybirn
04-10-2006, 08:26 AM
delpadre - Good start! We should talk about what you're doing with the lighting. Right now the shading on the fur looks very flat, and I can't see much variation of brightness or shadow. It would be good if some areas like inside the ears weren't as furry as other parts.

Perhaps there's something strange about the way the scene is rendered and composited, too, because there's a black edge around a lot of the rabbit, and the front of the rabbit's head and nose look transparent, as if the edge of the ground and sky were visible through the rabbit's head?


Courtney - I've seen your stuff before, but for the record it looks great - very good integration of the paint fx and fur colors with the backdrop.

Your rabbit has a thinner black edge than delpadre's, but it's still there. When the Maya renderer composites the fur image into the main rendering, it uses z-depth info that isn't anti-aliased, and makes those edges. Getting background grass, rabbit, and foreground grass rendered as separate layers with their own alphas, and compositing them in Shake or Photoshop would probably look better than letting Maya render it in one pass.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
04-10-2006, 05:48 PM
My god its the bunny from my nightmares! just when i was starting to forget this , damn you jeremy! :p

OK, now we've got to see a rabbit rendering from Ali!

-jeremy

delpadre
04-10-2006, 06:05 PM
Thanks for the comments Jeremy. I am having some weird problems. If I move the lighting around or change the light properties it will render the grass in front of the rabbit as if the paint effects cover the entire rabbit. I also canít seem to get rid of that black border around the rabbit, I assumed it was something to do with the lights shadow setting but I canít seem to pin it down.

Also,when I try and use the paint effects artisan brush to reduce the amount of fur around the ears and other parts of the rabbit it affects the whole object, not just the part I am painting. Very strange.

Maybe I will try and render and composite it in Photoshop later as you suggested. I will mess with it again tonight; any suggestion on lighting would be appreciated!

SoLiTuDe
04-10-2006, 06:24 PM
quick question... when does this competition end? I didn't see it posted on the main page, and would like to participate if at all possible :)

jeremybirn
04-10-2006, 06:30 PM
Test render without shadows to make sure the black is really caused by the shadows, it could be an internal comping problem. Shadows of maya fur only work with tightly aimed spot lights (not other kinds of lights), with dmap shadows, but without dmap autofocus turned on, with fur shading/shadowing attributes added to the light and set for shadow maps. Then if you tweak the bias just right you can get pretty good shadows. (Hey, this is supposed to be a "challenge" :twisted: )

You should be able to paint the baldness without affecting all of the fur, if you're using the NURBS model. On the polygon model you'd probably need to do some UV assignment before painting would work. If you paint the length, the moment it adds a fur attribute map for the length, you need to set the map multiplier under length details or all the fur will jump shorter into the 0-1 range of the map.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
04-10-2006, 06:34 PM
quick question... when does this competition end? I didn't see it posted on the main page, and would like to participate if at all possible :)

There is no deadline, and you can do any challenge at any time and post your work. However, if you do the challenge this month while it is the latest challenge, you are likely to get more feedback and have a chance to get your work in the challenge gallery.

-jeremy

SoLiTuDe
04-10-2006, 07:16 PM
thanks mate... ya know.. it's really easy to get hair of a ball, but applying to this darn bunny is just a pain in the ass =)

delpadre
04-10-2006, 08:21 PM
Thanks jeremy!:thumbsup:

ShadowM8
04-11-2006, 04:34 AM
Iím really interested to see what I can do with this challenge. Never really had a chance to light scenes with hair/fur so this should be interesting. Since XSI does have any real presets for fur of any kind I am spending some time with a fur ball getting reasonable look I can go with for the bunny as well as exploring how it would react to light and shadow.

C&C are always welcomed.

MooseDog
04-11-2006, 03:57 PM
Posted for C&C. Lightwave with SASLite for fur and grass. Because of this, lighting was restricted to three spotlights with shadowmaps (no raytracing), and no G.I. Minor c.c. and sky in post. Great challenge!

http://www.mdogstudios.com/private/rabbit_002.png

herbertagudera
04-12-2006, 12:44 AM
...but applying to this darn bunny is just a pain in the ass =)

that being said...it really is a pain.. its been almost 2 weeks since i downloaded the scene. and tried applying the fur on the hare..i've never been lucky enough to get what i want..painting maya fur is harder than i thought it would be..so i resorted in using different 3D packages and plugins. unfortunately, that didnt help...but i'd still try to make it work..

anyway..nice work moosedog..

posting to subscribe...=P

jeremybirn
04-12-2006, 03:52 AM
i've never been lucky enough to get what i want..painting maya fur is harder than i thought it would be..so i resorted in using different 3D packages and plugins. unfortunately, that didnt help...but i'd still try to make it work..

If anyone wants to post some WIP or test images, or ask specific questions, I'm sure you could get some help. Especially if you happen to be using Maya Fur, that's been used on this model before...

-jeremy

ShadowM8
04-12-2006, 05:55 AM
Done further R&D on the shader, still with a fur ball. Made a run through of different coloring techniques. Iím thinking of controlling the color placement based o vertex color info; this would avoid the need to unwrap and add an extra texture map. I also added secondary hair emitter for coarse hair strands. Next step would be to break into passes and go through the comp process involved. Then comes the rabbit itself.
C&C are welcomed.

MasterZap
04-12-2006, 06:09 AM
Here's another try.... better.... but still needs work.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f366/MasterZap/harebrain12.jpg

It's mr hair primitives for grass and rabbit fur.

The AEC "foliage" plugin for max made the shrubbery (that plugin is pretty cool, totally procedural fractally based trees!)

All lit by a single area light (sun) and FG (from HDR sky).
(I.e. 100% real physics and GI, no oldschool "bounce light" mumbo-jumbo here ;) :twisted: )
All straight from the render, no "comp" work or post touchups.

One "trick" I tried is that the wabbit doesn't actually have all that much fur... it's actually an anisotropic shader on the rabbit "skin" itself to "simulate" a basic fur, and the added actual hairs is more to make it "read" as mor "fur" than there really are...

/Z

delpadre
04-12-2006, 07:25 AM
Here is an update, a little better but it still needs a lot of work. I was able to get better results with the Nurbs model. Let me know what you think.

http://www.delpadre.com/bunny3.jpg

jeremybirn
04-12-2006, 03:39 PM
ShadowM8 -

Good start. Try to cover the skin completely. Test what you can do to increase coverage without an insane hair count, like maybe the thickness can go higher on each hair, longer fur length, more bending/curling, tips can taper out by reducing tip opacity instead of just thickness, or just better fur shadowing to darken the skin.

-jeremy

ShadowM8
04-13-2006, 05:56 AM
Thanks for the feedback Jeremy.
I will try to increase my fur/surface coverage via the techniques you suggested.

Right now the color of my sphere (skin) is fairly light as is the real skin. But from some of my reading about hair rendering techniques it seems common for artists to choose a skin color very similar to the final look of the hair they are going for. Which tends to allow for lesser densities of hair. I am not sure if this is a right approach or not...

I've done further R&D with color. The use of vertex_rgba to interactively paint color variation works great. I am however finding it difficult to control the color values itself as it gets adjusted when it is actually rendered on hair, so I am going to need to allocate some time for color correction for the bunny.

I am not really happy with how much control I have over specular behavior, especially when it comes to the overall body of hair and not the individual strands. I would like to have my spec as a separate pass to have an extra level of control in comp but that has proven a bit of a challenge.

Cheers.

jeremybirn
04-13-2006, 06:13 PM
delpadre -

Glad if its working better. The image still looks flat, as if it is lacking is shading and shadowing. Try rendering it lit by one spotlight somewhere above the rabbit, so you can clearly see that the rabbit and the fur are casting shadows onto themselves and onto the grass.

-jeremy

delpadre
04-13-2006, 06:43 PM
Here is where I left off last night, trying to get the ear looking better and the fur less bushy. I also tried adding some whiskers but as you can see they donít really look like whiskers yet! I will try moving the spotlight from behind the camera to above the rabbit like you suggested. I was trying to go for that Flash photography look like Zaps render but I guess I donít know how to do it or itís not working for this image.

Thanks for your help and comments.

http://www.delpadre.com/bunny4.jpg

jeremybirn
04-13-2006, 06:44 PM
from some of my reading about hair rendering techniques it seems common for artists to choose a skin color very similar to the final look of the hair they are going for. Which tends to allow for lesser densities of hair. I am not sure if this is a right approach or not...

There's a place for shading/texturing the surface under the fur to look like fur. Imagine if you had a really large terrain and in wide-shots you didn't see every blade of grass, you'd want a flat grass texture over parts of it, and only turfs of grass near the peaks and edges and in the foreground. The same goes with distant characters.

But I think for a close-up of a rabbit, the rabbit should be covered with real fur. Texture mapped surfaces, or even textures on little cards as in Ice Age 1, would not hold up well enough in close-up, and wouldn't even cast correct shadows. Inclose-ups, in areas where skin would be covered with a thick pelt of fur in real life, it comes out looking wrong if you see the original outline of the rabbit surfaces.

MasterZap was just doing interesting tests along those lines, and you can see the results: Even though highlights on fur have an anisotropic quality to them when you put enough hairs together, giving the rabbit a shiny anisotropic shader doesn't make him look good with thinning hair.

( Maybe some really clever shader development could change my mind about this, if it did the self-occlusion from a polynomial texture map based on real rabbit fur and some kind of edge mapping in the render and the shadow maps, but I haven't seen it yet. What I've seen, in my limited experience with hair and fur, is that only real strands of fur that can individually cast and receive shadows end up looking like fur in a close-up. )

-jeremy

jeremybirn
04-13-2006, 06:47 PM
Here is where I left off last night, trying to get the ear looking better and the fur less bushy. I also tried adding some whiskers but as you can see they donít really look like whiskers yet! I will try moving the spotlight from behind the camera to above the rabbit like you suggested. I was trying to go for that Flash photography look like Zaps render but I guess I donít know how to do it or itís not working for this image.

Thanks for your help and comments.

If you want a flash photography look that's great, but no matter what angle your light comes from do some tests to make 100% sure your shadowing is working. I don't see the shadowing, that's all I meant, it looks like shadowing is turned off or not working.

-jeremy

lazzhar
04-13-2006, 07:17 PM
Just to not let Zap winning this game and try to spice things up I'm posting a wip:
Here is how I designed the shot, the grass made of FUR and some PaintFX:


Early tests of the fur, I'm still painting and painting:
http://i2.tinypic.com/ve6ngk.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/ve6mox.jpg

arcus
04-13-2006, 10:09 PM
Hello,

nice challange. Here is my work, done in Lightwave with sasquatch full in about 5 hours.
Hope to have some comments.

Marcus

jeremybirn
04-14-2006, 04:12 AM
Marcus -Welcome, looks good! The colors and tone look a bit like that default Windows XP backdrop. At once very happy and very soothing.

There seem to be some stripes on him, especially on the rear leg and a little on the ears. I wonder if they are shadow bias issues, or if they would be present in the fur even without shadows? Maybe it's just that the bias needs to be higher.

The grass is a little bit regular, maybe the scene would be more interesting if there were some variety to the vegetation. Or else maybe the lighting could be more late in the day with a low sun angle making some variety in how it hits different parts of the scene?

-jeremy

ShadowM8
04-14-2006, 06:07 AM
Thanks for the feedback.

Tonight I did some work on different shadowing methods. I have gotten very interesting results with volumic shadow maps that I am happy with for now.

I decided to split the rendering into 3 passes: color, specular and shadow. However at this point they do not comp to produce the same result as the beauty pass, so I need to look into some other options and methods.

Last thing I would need to do is run some speed tests to figure out the optimal settins for couple of options like the BSP Tree.

Cheers!

arcus
04-14-2006, 09:59 AM
Thank you for your comments Jeremy,

you are right with everything :). I will change the background and the daytime.
The stripes are comming from my fur settings in sasquatch. I will change this too.
Hope to see many people joining this mini challange.

Thanks again

Marcus

gorillapanse
04-14-2006, 02:13 PM
hy everybody,

i know its a litle late.... but i`d like to join the challenge...
i`m watching it since 2 weeks but i had no time to participate... (lots of work)
so i hope it is not to late and i`d be happy for c&c

this is my first...
and its the first time, messing around with fur... hope you`ll not kill me for this

jeremybirn
04-16-2006, 05:48 PM
ShadowM8 - Your fur ball is great, it's starting to looking like something people would ID as rabbit fur even when seen on a sphere. There will be a lot more looks dev to do once it's on the rabbit, with continuity between limbs, maintaining density, varying areas such as inside the ears, etc. so I hope we can see it on the rabbit!

lazzhar - Can't wait to see your scene take shape.

gorillapanse - Not too late at all, this challenge is taking a surprisingly long time to really get started (I think the next challenge will go back to something simpler to render...) so we welcome new entries. Your fur is off to a good start, I hope you can get the fur shadowing too.

-jeremy

meanlebh
04-17-2006, 12:15 AM
Here is my first attempt. First time really playing around with hair in xsi...wish that I could have played around with it a little bit more, but for right now I have run out of time and other projects need my attention...maybe later this week I will get some time to revisit it...anyways, there are certainly areas that could be improved upon so please feel free to critique away :)


Also, Jeremy, I just wanted to say how great these lighting challenges are. This is the first one that I have actually posted anything for, but I have been following them from the beginning and it is the perfect way for people to get good solid feedback and critique on their lighting, no matter how good it may already be. So again....thanks! Hopefully I will get a chance to participate a little bit more in the future.

-Brian

jeremybirn
04-17-2006, 05:54 AM
Brian -

Welcome! Good start. First impression: the black area to the left of the rabbit confused me at first, I thought it was a body of water. I guess it's just a side of a hill that goes very dark, but the corresponding side of the rabbit is very bright, so I don't see how that difference came to be. Maybe a little more fill or bounce on the hill, and a little more contrast on the rabbit? The ground could use some more shadows as well, especially in the lower left where the grass should cast shadows. Another issue: the rabbit fur looks flat in places, instead of sticking out and covering all the surfaces like real, fluffy fur.

-jeremy

lazzhar
04-17-2006, 03:47 PM
Thanks Jeremy.
I'm still working on, paintined a little bit the FUR properties and some additions. It's Maya software rendering without shadowing and I'm planning to switch to MR when I finish it.
http://i3.tinypic.com/vq2zoj.jpg

I think that setting up FUR is a little bit tough and needs time, this is what's keeping this challenge slow. Not sure if it's a good idea, but I'm thinking if someone could setup the fur to start up shading and lighting it would attract more people frustrated by doing and redoing the slow process.

meanlebh
04-17-2006, 10:15 PM
Thanks for the feedback Jeremy, I will try to get some time later this week to revisit it and make some of the changes that you suggested. Thanks again!

Lazzhar, huge improvement from your original post in my opinion! a few things that are bothering me still though are some of the darker areas on the top/back of your rabbit and also on the edge of the grass behind him...for such a sunny day I wouldn't really expect to see shadows in those areas (mainly on his back and the backsides of his ears....unless these are colorations in the fur?)....anyways, nice update! keep them coming.

-Brian

slatr
04-18-2006, 05:37 AM
I wanted to give this one a try, I think my rabbit looks more like a toy though. :)

http://i3.tinypic.com/vrrr6x.jpg - right from Lightwave

http://i3.tinypic.com/vrsbnt.jpg - heavy contrast in Photoshop

Rod Seffen
04-18-2006, 11:01 AM
Done in lightwave with sasquatch.

http://www.pixelwerks.be/pictures/hare_render.jpg

arcus
04-18-2006, 02:25 PM
Wow oDDity,

best entry so far (my opinion). I would only increase the subdivions of the grass a little bit.
Are you using GI lighting? I assume you have used a color UV map for the fur.
Would be nice to read something about your workflow on this nice work.

Marcus

Rod Seffen
04-18-2006, 02:37 PM
No GI, just good old 3 point lighting with spots.
Yes, I textured the model first and then used that texture as a colourmap and blended it with the base fur colurs. That also means you don't have to make the fur as thick, which increases render times a lot.
It's broken up into 9 surfaces (nose, head_top, head_bottom, ears_inside, ears_outside, back, belly, legs and tail), with grayscale lengthmaps and separate combing.

I deliberately go for slighly angular grass stems, it looks like broken and ragged blades.

slatr
04-18-2006, 03:15 PM
Looks like you could reach out and try to touch your rabbit and it would run away :)

arcus
04-18-2006, 07:55 PM
Hello,

here is an update of my bunny images/icons/icon7.gif...
I have worked on general colors and fur.

Marcus

Rod Seffen
04-18-2006, 08:09 PM
The fur strands are too long and too fluffy. Hare's have short, coarse fur. I think you need sharper colour and tonal variety in the fur as well.

3DDave
04-18-2006, 09:04 PM
Arcus,

It would be nice to see the fur detail sharpened up and remove those really bright grasses or dull them down a bit so more focus is on the rabbit.

Oditty,

Great job.

the only suggestion is try and remove the bent grass. I think there is a setting in SAS for that. it's nice for a few, but there are too many like that.

kary
04-19-2006, 03:01 AM
Preface: I haven't done much with hair before. I've looked at the max demo material, but haven't done much more then press render on the samples :)

I was surprised when you get past the oddities of the interface (shave's on top of max is bit different) it was fun -- I'm aching for a faster computer, but fun. I missed pretty badly on my first attempt here, but I'm going to keep plugging away.

---

Stones in the back are out of scale with the rabbit, grass needs to have a lot more colour variation in it, rabbit hair is to long, rabbit hair colour is a bit mucked up, and there are some funky things going on with the lights atm (ironicÖ for a lighting challenge?), but all and all not a bad evening considering I'm pretty new to this.

Image (http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/04/hairyhare.jpg)

ShadowM8
04-19-2006, 04:56 AM
Great entries everybody, very impressive.
I took a break during the holidays and started applying the fur to the rabbit itself. Now fighting with the combing tools in XSI hasn't been easy as it's pretty much a manual strand by strand process, so hopefully I'll have something decent on the bunny soon enough.

delpadre
04-19-2006, 06:51 AM
Here is my update, cant get good lighting and shading. I dont know whats going on. It looks a little better than the last. Let me know what you think. Thanks!

http://delpadre.com/bunny8-copy.jpg

jeremybirn
04-19-2006, 07:33 AM
Done in lightwave with sasquatch.

http://www.pixelwerks.be/pictures/hare_render.jpg

That's great! When I first saw that one here, I thought "the game is afoot."

The fur colors look terrific, and the eye looks very eye-like as well with a nice reflection. If there are things to improve, the rabbit's ears could look more like translucent skin if places where they are going black were more pink. Also, having the horizon clipping in and out along the top edge doesn't really do anything for me, I'd rather push in and skip the horizon, or else move the camera down and in so the horizon comes about a third of the way down the shot.

The grass is off to a good start as well. I like the overall colors and design of the grass. Besides what others said, the white flowers look a bit too white, lacking in texture or shading in places, and the depth of field doesn't look photographic. Again, really nice work! Show us more!

-jeremy

jeremybirn
04-19-2006, 07:35 AM
delpadre -

That's a nice, interesting image, but I'm worried about whether the shadows are working. Can you post an image with the rabbit lit by just a spot light from above, to show how the rabbit and its fur cast shadows onto the fur and grass?

-jeremy

Rod Seffen
04-19-2006, 08:28 AM
That's great! When I first saw that one here, I thought "the game is afoot."

The fur colors look terrific, and the eye looks very eye-like as well with a nice reflection. If there are things to improve, the rabbit's ears could look more like translucent skin if places where they are going black were more pink. Also, having the horizon clipping in and out along the top edge doesn't really do anything for me, I'd rather push in and skip the horizon, or else move the camera down and in so the horizon comes about a third of the way down the shot.

The grass is off to a good start as well. I like the overall colors and design of the grass. Besides what others said, the white flowers look a bit too white, lacking in texture or shading in places, and the depth of field doesn't look photographic. Again, really nice work! Show us more!

-jeremy

Those are fair comments. It's all about how much time I was prepared to put into it I suppose.
I felt the important parts of this render were the quality of light and the fur, and those things I'm happy with and can't really improve much. The rest is just frippery. So yeah, I could have modeled the flowers instead of using a disc with a daisy pasted on, etc, and spent time setting up real DOF instead of fakng it in PS, but once I get the important stuff sorted out, I tend to get lazy and throw the reat together as quickly as I can)
Still, this is the first fur I've ever done, and I'm glad to have used this opportunity to aquaint myself with it. I've got the buzz for it now and am already doing a wolf)

A few quick tweaks in PS can fix a few things at least..

http://www.pixelwerks.be/pictures/hare_render2.jpg

delpadre
04-19-2006, 05:09 PM
http://www.delpadre.com/bunny9.jpg

i moved the spot I was using behind the camera above the rabbit. Any help or comments would be great. I am using the follwing settings:

Intensity 224
Decay Rate: Quadratic
Cone Angle 110
Penumbra Angle 10
Dropoff 10

Depth Map Shadows
Reolution 1024
Use Mod Dist on
Use Auto Focus Off
Focus 90
Filter Size 7
Bias .174
Fog Shadow Intensity 5
Fog Shadow Samples 20
Disk Based Dmaps Off
Use Single Dmap on

jeremybirn
04-19-2006, 05:12 PM
So this is in Maya? Did you add fur shading/shadow attributes to the spot light? Are they set for shadow maps?

-j

delpadre
04-19-2006, 05:22 PM
So this is in Maya? Did you add fur shading/shadow attributes to the spot light? Are they set for shadow maps?

-j

Yes its Maya and I have the defualt fur shading attributes added to that spot light, they are set to auto self shadow.

delpadre
04-19-2006, 05:43 PM
So this is in Maya? Did you add fur shading/shadow attributes to the spot light? Are they set for shadow maps?

-j

Hey I just pre-ordered your book at Amazon, it looks great! Cant wait to get it. Good luck with it.

jeremybirn
04-19-2006, 05:47 PM
Yes its Maya and I have the defualt fur shading attributes added to that spot light, they are set to auto self shadow.

If fur shading/shadowing is set for auto-shade (the fake tip to base darkening) instead of shadow maps, then that's the problem.

-jeremy

delpadre
04-19-2006, 07:31 PM
If fur shading/shadowing is set for auto-shade (the fake tip to base darkening) instead of shadow maps, then that's the problem.

-jeremy

Thanks, here is the result with the correct setting. I just dont think this "Camera Flash" thing is working for me. I might try something else.

http://delpadre.com/bunny11.jpg

jeremybirn
04-19-2006, 07:52 PM
I'm sure you can get shadows working if you do some more tests. Can you not get any fur to cast or receive shadows? What does the scene look like without fur, are your shadows perfect then?

-jeremy

kary
04-20-2006, 01:22 AM
Second shot: The body fur is closer, while the face is a little bit of a disaster :). I have to do a few box and sphere tests to get a handle on how the settings and how they tie into their maps.

Image
(http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/04/hairyhare2.jpg)

ShadowM8
04-20-2006, 06:10 AM
I knew there'd be tweaks needed when I apply fur to the rabbit, but so far I had to tinker with every setting I got for the fur ball :) A lot of settings either had to be scaled down or up, the styling also made huge changes to how the fur reacts to specular and shadows. Next time I'd be sure to do all the R&D on something that resembles the final target as closely as possible.
I also found out quickly enough that XSI + my PC doesn't make best friend for huge fur renders :) So I have decided to cluster of the body and work/render in parts (torso, head, limbs) XSI seems to handle multiple emitters better than larger surfaces and more hairs.

Anyways Iíve started working closer with a reference to set the general look I would like to go for. Here's a wip of where I am with the bunny now, still a lot of work to do but I really would like to have a finished look for him.


Ref: http://www.pbase.com/crocodile/image/53287471


Cheers!

Rod Seffen
04-20-2006, 06:39 AM
That fur is looking nice. Thee only crit is that it should become softer and fluffier on the underside.

lazzhar
04-21-2006, 04:36 PM
Nice works guys.
I just made a small update to test the Fur using Mental Ray. Basicly I'm after something like that:
http://i3.tinypic.com/w1efpd.jpg
Any suggestions are welcome.

kevb3d
04-22-2006, 03:40 AM
lazzhar,

I like where you are going with this. Looking at it, I think you should soften the whiskers a bit and you have a few errant bits of fur on the feet. I love where it's going though, stylistically.

Kev

delpadre
04-22-2006, 08:10 AM
I think I got the shadows finally working.


http://www.delpadre.com/bunny14.jpg
http://www.delpadre.com/bunny13.jpg

lazzhar
04-23-2006, 11:53 AM
lazzhar,

I like where you are going with this. Looking at it, I think you should soften the whiskers a bit and you have a few errant bits of fur on the feet. I love where it's going though, stylistically.

Kev

Hi Kev, thanks for the comments.
Well here is the latest:
http://i3.tinypic.com/w8vu47.jpg

900x486 version (http://i3.tinypic.com/w8vy2q.jpg)

I will post breakdown of layers and passes I used here.
Hope you like it.

jeremybirn
04-23-2006, 02:25 PM
Lazzhar -

That's really great! I like how you opened the scene up by adding the ocean in the background. The vegetation keeps looking better each time I see it. I like the deep focus; it keeps the scene open and sunny looking. The ground is looking good too.

A few places are going close to black in the vegetation. Those pink flowers in the foreground look as if they could be thin and translucent, so they shouldn't be looking black on the shadow side. Maybe inside the rabbit's ear or some shadow areas on the rabbit also could use some more fill. On the other hand, the white fur looks really, really white, so the sunlit parts of the front paws and and nose might be getting clipped and overexposed. Maybe "white" fur should really be a more medium gray.

I look forward to seeing your pass breakdown too! I suspect that some levels adjustments could be made in the composite.

One of my personal favorite quality checks on a scene is to bring it into Photoshop's Adjust Levels, and isolate where are all the darkest tones are in in the scene, then isolate where all the lightest tones are in the scene, and think about whether those all make sense.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
04-23-2006, 02:32 PM
delpadre -

That's looking good! I like the surreal, magical look to the nighttime shots. In terms of what it resembles, it looks more like slow-exposure night shots than a flash, so I don't know if having the light come from so close to the camera really helps the scene. I guess of the two you posted I like the lower one, maybe because the one with the moon behind him I would expect rim light on the rabbit and trees and more of a backlit look.

I like all the little vegetation, it's as if you have some species of paint effects that I hadn't seen before. I hope when you're done with this you post some kind of a breakdown as well, especially after a lot of testing with different settings you probably have some things to say.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
04-23-2006, 02:35 PM
ShadowM8 -

The little bits and peices you keep posting are a great "teaser" for what you're going to produce. Looking forewards to more.

-jeremy

delpadre
04-23-2006, 11:36 PM
Thanks Jermemy, yes Im done so I can move on to something else. I will post a breakdown soon or I was even thinking about writing a tutorial if I have time for anybody that might find it usefull. Thanks for your help.


delpadre -

That's looking good! I like the surreal, magical look to the nighttime shots. In terms of what it resembles, it looks more like slow-exposure night shots than a flash, so I don't know if having the light come from so close to the camera really helps the scene. I guess of the two you posted I like the lower one, maybe because the one with the moon behind him I would expect rim light on the rabbit and trees and more of a backlit look.

I like all the little vegetation, it's as if you have some species of paint effects that I hadn't seen before. I hope when you're done with this you post some kind of a breakdown as well, especially after a lot of testing with different settings you probably have some things to say.

-jeremy

Sciortino
04-24-2006, 09:33 AM
Here's my attempt. I would like to have rendered in mental ray, but some of the fur attribute maps seemd not to work in mr, so it's rendered with Maya Software renderer. To say this has been a learning experience would be such an understatement.... It's so much much work, but it's so very cool.
-Paul

http://incblots.com/images/cgtalk/lighting/rabbit-01-95-comp.png

lazzhar
04-24-2006, 10:20 AM
Thanks Jeremy for all inputs. You are right about the white FUR, I've kinda lost control on that areas. I'll try to fix it later with probably an additional pass of the flower's translucency. For now here are the breakdowns as promised:
First I have separated the scene into 3 layers: the close grass and flowers, the rabbit and the ground with the rest of vegetation. All rendered several times in several passes.
http://i3.tinypic.com/wb6noo.gif


Then I've used a Directional Light representing the Sun here, castig Shadows using Detailed Shadow Maps in Mental Ray.
http://i3.tinypic.com/wb6nvc.jpg

Then as a Fill -Ambient lighting I used several lights.
http://i3.tinypic.com/wb6plz.jpg

I have no clue why I've got some white spots on the rabbit so I rendered it again with shadowing using new lights set:
http://i3.tinypic.com/wb6pw5.jpg

I liked the idea so I added another pass as back lighting for the rabbit:
http://i3.tinypic.com/wb6q7s.jpg

I've thought also to render the highlight spot on the its eye alone, and another one for the reflection and a last to get some translucency on the ears. All composed in here:

http://i3.tinypic.com/wb6qhe.jpg
Finally I've got the idea to render an AO pass(as it's in fashion these days). To get contact shadows for everything.. hmm it's not that slow as I excpected.
http://i3.tinypic.com/wb6r28.jpg

It was a great and tough exercise honestly !!
Enjoy everyone.

lazzhar
04-24-2006, 05:05 PM
Update:
I added a slight blur for a DOF effect. I couldn't match the exact colors as the first one because I did the second compositing in Photoshop while the 1st one was done in Combustion.
http://i3.tinypic.com/wbe3dd.jpg (http://i3.tinypic.com/wbe6ut.jpg)

michael-fd
04-24-2006, 10:19 PM
Just having some fun:)

http://fd.pbnet.ru/bunnys.jpg

vijaybundela
04-25-2006, 02:29 PM
HI Jermy,
this is first time i was working over hairs, my comp is not able to give me freedom to do experiments with the hairs due to its low configration. but i was highly intersted to do this challenge,here is my efferts, comments are most welcome from all users.

This is my hare in clouds

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f363/vijaybundela/cloudy.jpg


This is my Hare under an electic pole
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f363/vijaybundela/underpole.jpg


This is my Hare in a bright sunny day under open sky
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f363/vijaybundela/sunny.jpg

Jittik
04-26-2006, 01:02 AM
Hello everybody.
This way this mini challenge will continue a bit longer, but I would really like to get some feedback on my first attempt to do some thick fur renderings.
Because I've been looking at it for to long...

It has all been done in 3dsmax, scanline renderer. couple of direct lights and a spot for shading.....thanks.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Jittik/bushyhare03.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Jittik/bushyhare04.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Jittik/bushyhare05.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Jittik/bushyhare07.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Jittik/bushyhare09.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Jittik/bushyhare10.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Jittik/bushyhare11.jpg

dax3d
04-26-2006, 02:22 AM
Jittik, I like what you so far but I do have a question. I don't know the hair system in Max, but I'm guessing there's some sort of transparency value? It seems like some of your foreground grass is a bit see-through. Also, you may want to increase the hair density in those areas where it looks like you can see the ground plane. If you plan on a ground texture or something then disregard that last statement.

Overall I like your progress so far, and the rabbit is looking better.

ShadowM8
04-26-2006, 05:58 AM
Great entries everybody, nice to see the participation level growing.

Michael I really enjoyed your piece, great look and feel to it!

I've been busy with work lately so I only manage to do a little very night, it's moving along all right though. I got the look down for now and am concentrating on blending the different areas that I had to separate. I won't post any "teasers" :) for now but as soon as I have the full rabbit done I'll get it up here.

Cheers!

jeremybirn
04-26-2006, 06:22 AM
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Jittik/bushyhare07.jpg

That's great. I think especially this one has great colors in it, nice overall impression. dax3d already mentioned some good points.


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Jittik/bushyhare05.jpg
This one does really well along the top of the rabbit's back. The back doesn't look flat in the outline, and isn't a dark line, it looks fluffy and irregular like real fur.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
04-26-2006, 06:34 AM
Just having some fun:)

http://fd.pbnet.ru/bunnys.jpg

Wonderful! It looks like you posted a painting.

The rabbits are a bit small so I can't say much about the fur, but that backdrop with the sun there could really motivate a strong sense that everything is back-lit. The grass, the rabbits' ears, anything that can show translucency or rim light, could be getting some in a scene like that. (I wonder about how blown-out the sun is in the background, too, if a little more color and detail worked into the blown area would complete the painterly look...)

Again, great job anyway.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
04-26-2006, 06:39 AM
HI Jermy,
this is first time i was working over hairs, my comp is not able to give me freedom to do experiments with the hairs due to its low configration. but i was highly intersted to do this challenge,here is my efferts, comments are most welcome from all users.

This is my hare in clouds

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f363/vijaybundela/cloudy.jpg

Hi Vijay -

That's a good start. You've clearly done a lot of work already.

If you are working on an old computer without much memory, I hope you can focus on rendering different layers separately, so you just do background and background grass, then render the rabbit, then render foreground grass, and composite all of those scenes together. You've clearly done a lot of work already, but the low-polygon terrain and large triangular shaped grass is a bit distracting, it would be better to render just a smaller portion of your scene at a time.

-jeremy

Tak Tak
04-26-2006, 10:18 AM
This is very cool thread with true feedbacks. I'll join you when next challenge starts because I'm going to 2 weeks holiday now :p Good times with fur guys and see you soon!

vijaybundela
04-26-2006, 02:20 PM
Thanks jermy,
i will try layer rendering and try to produce some more good results.

dax3d
04-26-2006, 09:39 PM
Hi Vijay,
What are you using to create the grass? Unless you are trying to create a stylized look, maybe decrease the width of the grass at the root?

michael_fd I really like your work so far. Definitely very nice, and painterly like Jeremy pointed out. What are you using to work on this?

vijaybundela
04-27-2006, 04:49 PM
Thanx dax,
now i really think i should work more over grass.
Well i made my work in 3ds max 8, render with mental ray using GI. once again thanks for all comments, next time i will try to deliver some more good results.

dax3d
04-27-2006, 06:38 PM
Hey Vijay,
What are you using in Max to create the grass though? Is it a plugin or geometry?
I'm not sure if what you're using allows it, but maybe experiment with transparency on hair tip and a little maybe on hair root.

It's a good start, I'll see if I can dig up my first attempt at grass....ouch

SoLiTuDe
04-29-2006, 08:53 AM
hehe... here's my go at it for now... (obvious errors like the ears, and overall fur length and everything is just default for now...didn't spend too much time on it yet)

http://www.innersolitude.com/tigerbunny.jpg

michael-fd
04-29-2006, 10:46 AM
Thanks everyone for crits and comments.

Wonderful! It looks like you posted a painting.

The rabbits are a bit small so I can't say much about the fur, but that backdrop with the sun there could really motivate a strong sense that everything is back-lit. The grass, the rabbits' ears, anything that can show translucency or rim light, could be getting some in a scene like that. (I wonder about how blown-out the sun is in the background, too, if a little more color and detail worked into the blown area would complete the painterly look...)

Well, i thought it's more about lightning/color and composition after all, rather then fur:) So you are completely right about the paintarly look, because i didn't wanted to spend hours tweaking and rerendering the fur, so I've just made a realy quick renders of the grass and the rabbit, just "as-is", and got the final picture in compositing.

michael_fd I really like your work so far. Definitely very nice, and painterly like Jeremy pointed out. What are you using to work on this?
Thanks again:)
It's Maya and as i said before mainly compositing - Shake.
Here's a little "making-of":

http://fd.pbnet.ru/making-of.jpg

vijaybundela
04-29-2006, 04:25 PM
hi dex, i use hairs to produce grass in max 8.

dax3d
04-29-2006, 08:46 PM
Hey guys, very cool stuff.

Vijay I haven't really used Max that much (just the particles), so I didn't know they had built in hair system.

Michael, is that Maya hair/fur or are you using shave and a haircut? Sorry, I should have been more specific. I went to school for Maya, but use XSI at work so I'm using XSI hair (shave and a haircut). So I was interested in comparison. Definitely great so far.

slatr
04-29-2006, 09:34 PM
Thanks again:)
It's Maya and as i said before mainly compositing - Shake.
Here's a little "making-of":

http://fd.pbnet.ru/making-of.jpg

This is so nice. It immediately made me think of Watership Down.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078480/

kevb3d
04-29-2006, 10:02 PM
After seeing all these cool postings, I decided to give it a try. I've never used Maya Fur or Paint Effects before other than playing around, so this was a challenge to learn. Maya is clunky feeling to me coming from XSI and Lightwave, but I'm starting to feel much better with it. (It can do almost anything except feed the cats and clean the dishes) I just hate when things "break" for no reason, like fur descriptions, etc...LOL.

Here's my first attempt...
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/3470/kevb3dbunnyrabbit9qw.jpg

Thanks,

Kev

michael-fd
04-29-2006, 10:19 PM
Michael, is that Maya hair/fur or are you using shave and a haircut? Sorry, I should have been more specific. I went to school for Maya, but use XSI at work so I'm using XSI hair (shave and a haircut). So I was interested in comparison. Definitely great so far.

Yup, its shave + native software render.

This is so nice. It immediately made me think of Watership Down.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078480/


Thanks, but unfortunatly never saw this movie :(

SoLiTuDe
04-30-2006, 04:15 AM
Hey guys, very cool stuff.

Vijay I haven't really used Max that much (just the particles), so I didn't know they had built in hair system.


Yeah -- max now has shave & a haircut built in

pleasent
05-02-2006, 10:52 PM
delpadre (member.php?u=206001)
i Like ur Camera Flash Light Effect i just wana know how u achieved it ? what sort of light is placed and what setting would be thankfull to u

kaelmd
05-03-2006, 01:32 AM
Hi All,

Nice Thread, I really appreciate this kind of friendly C&C challenge. I decide to give a try to mental ray fur. I try 2 different mood. I personnaly prefer the second one though I think it seems perhaps a little bite underlite.



http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/okaelo/lapinDOF.jpg



http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/okaelo/lapinNuit.jpg



Hope you like those.

ps: sorry for my terrible english

delpadre
05-03-2006, 03:38 PM
delpadre (http://member.php/?u=206001)
i Like ur Camera Flash Light Effect i just wana know how u achieved it ? what sort of light is placed and what setting would be thankfull to u

Hi I will post some screen shots and info tonight.

kary
05-03-2006, 08:50 PM
I went back into this for a bit this afternoon and some of the hair stuff (so close to writing hare there) finally clicked. For a still it doesn't seem fantastically complicated, but it plays out as the type of tool that you must have a 'back to front' grasp of before you can make a lot of progress. Combing is one of the parts where experience would play a big role -- experience and a fast computer ;).

This is darker then I had in mind originally, and is sort of aching for the lack of bounce and ambient. On the amusing side the harsh key with almost takes a feel of film noir, on a bunny. The angle isnít kind either, it seemed interesting in the beginning, but as I went on it wound up more of a handicap then I expected. The narrative would run along the lines of him working his way towards the dark then hearing something that freezes him, or if you're less kind he just noticed his own shadow :)

http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/thefinalhare.thumbnail.jpg (http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/thefinalhare.jpg)

Iím applying what I got out of this to another scene right now and itís started off well ó this was a great exercise to head into fur for the first time.

There is a lot of good work in the thread, and it's reassuring to see everyone making progress together ;) michael_fd's painterly version is really remarkable, nice one :)

--- Edit: A little less gloom in this (http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/reallythefinalhare.jpg) one.

pleasent
05-04-2006, 11:32 AM
Hi I will post some screen shots and info tonight.

THnkx I Will Be waiting for that :)

mp5
05-04-2006, 06:57 PM
Nice lighting and composition.

lazzhar
05-05-2006, 06:10 PM
Wow guys nice stuff !!
kary, I like your new composition a lot, very nice ! Shadows are working great.
kevb3d, good start. Now just put one light enable shadowing and let us see what you get. good luck.

kaelmd, very nice too, maybe the depth of field is too strong I guess it toke ages to render out right?
SoLiTuDe I've just seen your tiger-bunny looks cool lol.


I've thought it's interesting to try the night scene setup, here is what I got http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/7808/greenblue1fb.gif http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4968/fire017jq.jpg




Keep it up guys.

jeremybirn
05-05-2006, 07:31 PM
Hi Kaelmd -

Nice work!

The night one is a little too uniform in tone, and have a very saturated blue that doesn't quite work.

The day one is really nice, but the composition doesn't really lead your eye as gracefully as it could to the rabbit. I feel as if my eyes settle on the orange center-foreground areas, where the ground looks soft and fluffy. Maybe the rabbit could just be bigger and taller, so his back cut into the bright orange area that is a few inches above his tail now, that could make him read as a more integral part of the composition?

-jeremy

Hi All,

Nice Thread, I really appreciate this kind of friendly C&C challenge. I decide to give a try to mental ray fur. I try 2 different mood. I personnaly prefer the second one though I think it seems perhaps a little bite underlite.



http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/okaelo/lapinDOF.jpg



http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/okaelo/lapinNuit.jpg



Hope you like those.

ps: sorry for my terrible english

jeremybirn
05-05-2006, 07:36 PM
Hi Kary -

That's looking good; I especially like the first one (the one you attached as a thumbnail.)

The part that looks dark to me is not the environment, it's the rabbit, especially in the dark triangle above his eye, and the brightness of the eye highlights and reflections. If that dark spot could get brightened, and a nice eye highlight helped his eye read a little more clearly, I wouldn't think it was too dim at all.

There's something glowy about the one you attached, even in the darkest cracks of the brick wall or under the grass there is an ambience that doesn't seem to come from anywhere. Maybe something somewhere in between, with special attention to the rabbit eye area and getting occlusion under things that touch the ground?

-jeremy

I went back into this for a bit this afternoon and some of the hair stuff (so close to writing hare there) finally clicked. For a still it doesn't seem fantastically complicated, but it plays out as the type of tool that you must have a 'back to front' grasp of before you can make a lot of progress. Combing is one of the parts where experience would play a big role -- experience and a fast computer ;).

This is darker then I had in mind originally, and is sort of aching for the lack of bounce and ambient. On the amusing side the harsh key with almost takes a feel of film noir, on a bunny. The angle isnít kind either, it seemed interesting in the beginning, but as I went on it wound up more of a handicap then I expected. The narrative would run along the lines of him working his way towards the dark then hearing something that freezes him, or if you're less kind he just noticed his own shadow :)

http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/thefinalhare.thumbnail.jpg (http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/thefinalhare.jpg)

Iím applying what I got out of this to another scene right now and itís started off well ó this was a great exercise to head into fur for the first time.

There is a lot of good work in the thread, and it's reassuring to see everyone making progress together ;) michael_fd's painterly version is really remarkable, nice one :)

--- Edit: A little less gloom in this (http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/reallythefinalhare.jpg) one.

jeremybirn
05-05-2006, 07:41 PM
Hey Lazzhar -

That's great!

Nice nighttime feel to it.

The bright area on the horizon really seems to highlight that thing (I think it's a flower) sticking up there, maybe if the bright area were moved to fall behind the rabbit's ears then they wouldn't look too bright and the scene would look more like a portrait of the rabbit.

When it comes to eye highlights, I don't expect to see them on the very edge of the eyeball where reflections would be blocked by the hair (like eyelashes in a human) around the eyes. Maybe that highlight could be smaller and farther in towards the center of the eye?

-jeremy

Wow guys nice stuff !!
kary, I like your new composition a lot, very nice ! Shadows are working great.
kevb3d, good start. Now just put one light enable shadowing and let us see what you get. good luck.

kaelmd, very nice too, maybe the depth of field is too strong I guess it toke ages to render out right?
SoLiTuDe I've just seen your tiger-bunny looks cool lol.


I've thought it's interesting to try the night scene setup, here is what I got http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/7808/greenblue1fb.gif http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4968/fire017jq.jpg




Keep it up guys.

lazzhar
05-05-2006, 08:16 PM
Yes you are right. I think it would be a better composition, I've just matte-painted the highlights on the eye as an ultimate solution :D
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1760/fire022ci.jpg

kevb3d
05-06-2006, 06:34 AM
Lazzhar,

I like the progress you've made on this thing, and I really like the night lighting you have there with the rim light on the fur. I also want to thank you for your input on mine. The shadows made a difference, I just had to find them and use them without getting too much contrast hahahaha.

Here's my second attempt, I'm going for an early morning feel:

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/2032/kevb3dbunnyrabbit29iw.jpg

jeremybirn
05-06-2006, 01:36 PM
kevb3d -

That's great!

Nice colors and variety in the veg, great detail on the rabbit's head and nose and eyes.

The fog is working well. I wish the sky were a little brighter, and maybe that it wrapped around the ears a bit more (that's an easy thing to do in the comp).

There's one part of the rabbit, the ears, that keeps catching my eye. They have these hard edges in them that don't look as organic as the rest of the image, and the smooth pink area isn't textured like the rest of the image (it's more saturated too), and I'm wondering if there are fixes that can be made with the fur (like some tweaks around the edges, and a new fur description that just adds some light peach-fuzz to the bald area?) or if the texture could be fixed, or if there are things that could be done in retouching to fix them?

-jeremy

kary
05-06-2006, 08:30 PM
Lazzhar, tx for taking a look :) I really like the night scene that you've come to, the rim across the back is especially good. Jeremy's point about the light tone on the horizon makes a lot of sense, I wonder about the flower on the left being in a warm colour and that near the front of the frame. Since it's warm in a cool comp with a complex shape it really seems to pull the eye back into a small section of the piece.

kevb3D, nice and dreamy feel. Really good work on the foliage, great variety etc. As per what Jeremy said the inside of the ear jumps out at me.

---

http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/utterlyfinalhare.thumbnail.jpg (http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/utterlyfinalhare.jpg)

Great critque on my trials with fur guys, thanks.

As the eye is very small in this I went with a straight white highlight, it seems to read ok.

To combat the darkness of the rabbit I added in a soft warm light from camera left, it gives a hit of definition to pull the leg out of the shadow and add a light line at the front of the chest. I also turned the model a smidge and got a better highlight on the left cheek and the barrel of the body at the back leg.

I'm doing a diffuse glow and keeping everything pretty warm -- I wonder if it would be more effective to have the rest cool and the rabbit warm. I hope to be able to get the rabbit unwrapped tommorow tommorow and play with some variety its his colour -- tried to drive them with a quick vertex colour system earlier and they were extremely blown out for some reason. Looking at it now the SSS on the ears is over the top, and the defintion on the front leg and chest could be stronger as well. Definately one more time round I guess ;)

kevb3d
05-06-2006, 08:48 PM
Guys,

THANKS for the critiques! The ear is bugging me, even after looking at reference photos, but now I have a direction. Jeremy, I wish I had your eye for detail "right now", but I guess that comes with time and LOTS of practice. I looked at one of my cats, and there isn't much fur on the inner part of the ear, but there is fuzz, which another fur description could cover. Also, you nailed the texture issue. I was trying to get it translucent, but I still need work on that. Maya is a beast, but comp is where the magic happens. I'll do your suggestions and I'm sure it will help those darn ears LOL!

Kary, thanks for the positive comments, and you're right about the ears too. I really like the direction that your image is going in. The wall and grass adds to the image and helps to draw the eye to the rabbit (subject). You're nailing the translucence and sss on the ears, and I like the hard shadow due to time of day. The thing that gets me still is that the rabbit is a bit dark and very fluffy. If you look closely, and I didn't nail this either in my first pass, a rabbit's fur in the wild is more matted and exposed to the elements. Maybe rough it up a bit. Possibly make the fur a bit wider at the base or a bit more roll, etc... just a bit though...experiment. You're doing that anyway though as per your post. I'm psyched to see where this one goes. It's looking great.

Kev

delpadre
05-07-2006, 06:10 AM
Hi, sorry this took so long but I have been real busy. I am posting some screen shots and settings as I spent a lot of time on this and put my new Dual Opteron Boxx through the ringer.

I have 2 spotlights in the scene one in the back of the bunny and one directly behind the camera to simulate a flash photography look. Iím using Fluid effects for the clouds and environment fog. The grass is done with a variety of paint effects.

http://www.delpadre.com/ss5.jpg

For the Flash spotlight behind the camera I changed Decay Rate to Quadratic.
I increased the intensity to about 378 and I increased the cone angle to around 110 and the dropoff to 44.

I used Depth Map Shadows with a resolution of 1024 with Use Auto Focus Unchecked, filter size 2, bias 0.001 and fog shadow intensity to 1. I added Fur Shading to this spotlight and used Shadow Maps for fur shading Type.

http://www.delpadre.com/ss5.gif

http://www.delpadre.com/ss4.gif

Position the Flash spotlight and group it in the center of the camera as shown in the image above. Middle drag the spotlight onto the camera in the outliner.
This will group them to the camera ensuring that when you move the camera the light and reflector will follow.

http://www.delpadre.com/ss3.gif

In the Maya Software Render global enable the options shown under Paint Effects Rendering Options.

http://www.delpadre.com/ss1.gif

http://www.delpadre.com/ss2.jpg

http://www.delpadre.com/bunny13.jpg

pleasent
05-07-2006, 08:55 AM
Yay ! Thankx Man This helped me alot :) Thnkx for sharing ur Knowledge and 10x for describing in detailed way :)

ihabbob
05-17-2006, 08:12 AM
Hi guys,

This is my first shot at fur using maya. Tell me what you think.

Cheers,

ihabbob
05-17-2006, 08:16 AM
hi guys,
http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=95689&stc=1

Wipix
05-31-2006, 06:44 AM
Hi,

is this challenge over.
I think so.
I would have liked to take part ... maybe next time.

jeremybirn
05-31-2006, 07:27 AM
Hi,

is this challenge over.
I think so.
I would have liked to take part ... maybe next time.

You can post new rabbits in this thread whenever you want. The gallery will go up soon though, and most people are working on the latest challenge #4.

-jeremy

Malene
09-12-2006, 04:22 AM
Hey Jeremy,

This is my version of the Hairy Hare Challenge. How can I improve this image?


http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k37/babysanga/MaleneAllen_Bunny1.jpg

jeremybirn
09-12-2006, 06:40 PM
Malene -

That's looking good! The lighting direction on the fur should make the front of the rabbit brightest, try to find out why the fur is going so dark near his nose and get a nice brighter area along the front of the ear fur and head. The lighting on the nose skin, ear skin, and eyes looks a little bright in comparison, maybe that could be brought down a litte? Otherwise it's looking really solid./

-jeremy

qqlan
12-14-2006, 03:49 AM
My try on the rabbit. Hope you like it :)
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/9540/rabbitlanoi3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

jeremybirn
12-14-2006, 12:15 PM
qqlan -

Terrific work! That's one of the best here! Congratulations!

-jeremy

jeremybirn
01-21-2007, 05:36 PM
This thread is archived and not accepting new posts. If you scroll down to the Challenge #3 section of the downloads page, you'll see that the models can still be downloaded for your tests, and also that a gallery has been made of top entries.

-jeremy