ROBERTO'S BULLHORN: The future of FXWARS: What would you guys like to see?

[RedSquirrel]

Time wise, I think many people pulled out of the last challenge because they did not have enough time to finish it, it was really a pity I could see that there where some entries which could have been amazing.

To improve the challenges why not a "FX recreation", trying to recreate a type of VFX from a movie which is chosen by whoever. Like bullet time from the matrix :rolleyes: (lol, which has been done to death) or the when the stargate dials in, in SG-1.

I also get the impression there is an emphasis on trying to be realistic as possible when it involves modeling element's for scenes, the emphasis should be more on the fx than the models in the background.

[JB]

I think an "FX Recreation" is a good idea. And personally, I like a 1-1 1/2 month deadline.

[RFX]

I like the idea of an FX recreation, though another thing i'd like to see more is to do some cg meets live action shots, though i know a lot don't have a camera so that could conflict with some, so maybe two types of challenge could be made, one using full cg, and one cg/live action type of shots.

[Bonedaddy]

I'm looking at this forum and these challenges as basically exercises to build up demo reels. As such, I think the following principles are important:

1) Do effects challenges that one would actually see in a modern-day movie, and conceivably have to do in the industry. This has been followed pretty well so far.
2) Keep the modeling/texture work pretty minimal, and preferably based around photogrammetry.
3) Keep the skillsets involved to that of the Effects TD -- particles, dynamics, fluids, cloth, and fur.
4) Learn to deal with live action footage, and blend effects seamlessly into it.
5) Following along those lines, learn how compositing works in this pipeline.

That said, camera tracking, photogrammetry, complicated effects work, and seamless compositing in a one-man team is a pretty tall order. Especially since most effects-based stuff use the more expensive versions of the various packages out there.

My suggestion is to keep the live footage-based ones pretty simple, and focus on the compositing. It's a skill that many people here sorely lack, and even more don't realize is an integral part of this business. Many, many houses ONLY do compositing work -- no 3d.

As for the more complicated effects, I say keep them fully 3d, that way one doesn't have to deal with live action shenanigans on top of everything.

Recreating effects seen in major movies is a good idea, since lord knows I've had to do it more than once. I would say, don't directly ape it -- new camera angle, etc. Put your own spin on it. But if someone's done it once, there's information out there on the effect, stuff one can put to good use, and stuff one should probably know anyway.

[jigu]

Yeah i also do like the idea "Fx Recreation".. infact in my last challange i got inspiration from mckay's Blade Trinity work and i did try to recreate it...

I think so many ppl rarely have time to put input in this challange.

but recreation of Fx might can attract so many ppl.Like u choose any Fx scene from the movie and we have to recreate that kind of scene again with different location or blah blah ...(little mcuh upto us...) like the man disappearing effect from the war of the worlds movie, or Like running between dinos from kingkong..blah blah...

and yeah keeping it live action + CG makes the challange more interesting rather then completly CG sometimes.

[Lolec]

i also like that idea but what about... " Recreate your favorite movie Fx " and no " recreate lazersabe fight like in starwars" ....that would be cool cuz the entries will be very diverse and will be fun tu see the diferent ideas... also a " Make anything you like " ... i think that will have a lot of participation i know like 5 people that doesnt want to participate in this challenge cus they dont have any idea with the ocean... :)

[SoLiTuDe]

I think having long deadlines will definetly allow for better entries, and finished ones for that matter, but at the same time will make the majority of the community kind of throw it in the backburner -- like they'll know there's a visual fx war thingy, and see it on the front page... but then forget about cause they don't hear about it for 2 months. So I'd say post it up front more often by having small rotating battles also...
How do you guys feel about having two simultaneous competitions at a time -- the long haul one being the 2 monther, where it should be like they have been now.. well thought out projects where teams are encouraged, and then also have rotating small battles where maybe every 2-3 weeks there's a more specific technical effect people should be going after, where you could do them more yourself, like a flamethrower, or tornado or something... maybe a simple compositing exercise... and/or have those small battles related to the big war -- ie for this last one, it could've been the ocean shader (which is what turned up the most) then the next one could be realistic foam with water spray, then the next be adding a ship with wake, and realistic bouyancy or something. I think this would be kind of cool because like Bonedaddy said," a one-man team is a pretty tall order" I think that goes for a lot of it, but keeping the small battles to something a single person could do, then making the wars a full on project with the compositing and the rotoscoping and greenscreening and whatnot.

Besides that as an idea, i think a recreation is a great idea, but we should all have to do something very similar so that we could actually judge who's is better than whos, ya know? This also kind of leads into having supplied footage that we have to work with. I don't have easy access to a dv cam... so it's kind of a pain for me to get some live action footage, though I'm dying to work with some. Full cg stuff is great too, as we're seeing more and more of it being fully cg... And then this leads into what exactly is visual fx? I think the topics you've been going with are on-track for the most part of what people will actually want to do... I wouldn't want to model a person, then rig and animate that person doing something for a vfx shot... even though that's often a very integral part of vfx...

I'll shut up now... i think you guys get my points...

--Solitude:)

[RobertoOrtiz]

Ok ill try to adress some points:




Supplied Footage:
It would be wonderful to use it, but first we need sources.
Any ideas?
Fx Recreation:
I like originality and one of my concerns is that copying something that has been done to death (bullet time) will stiffle originality. Maybe we could do a challenge called : "Re-think Bullet Time".

Or do you guys prefer something called FX-TAXIDERMY and recreate some new/classic FX sequences. IE: The Predator FX, the desitegration FX of the remake War of the Worlds, Bullet time, Escape the TX FX from The Ring, The water tentacle from The Abyss .
Rotating Challenges:
What do you guys think of this ideas?
Comp Only Challenges:
For that we again need some footage.
The question is where do we get it?
Team Entries:
As Bonedaddy crealy said, soem challenges are clearly a tall order for a one man team. How do we encourage more team entries?
Great points people so far.

Lets keep this conversation going.

-R

[Dutchman]

Hi Roberto and all other enthousiast FXWar generals and soldiers! :twisted:

Some things I'd like to say about the way its going:
- The deadlines are often long enough. Nobody tells us that it is expected to do something in Hollywood quality (read: über-perfection), so the current deadlines are very reasonable. Its just about planning your stuff (something I did wrong the last time ;) ), and the level of ambition/passion you put into your work. I always want to make it to a nice end product with a story and a cinematic feel on it, but other people might have annother 'goal'/mission.
The problem on my entries is everytime just that the last few days are 'a bit more work then expected'.
- The very first FX-Wars were all on 3D-fx (like deconstructing stuff, blowing up, playing with particles), while the last ones are more on composition skills. Those things are very different, in my POV (as in a movie production the 3D-effects team is also independent from the (post) VFX-team), so it might be good to know which one we (well... in fact Roberto ;) ) are targeting for. I like the composition wars in every case better, as you then can finally bundel your creativity into a nice movie.
- The idea of a central starting point of video-stuff would be nice, as lots of people don't like the live-action stuff as they don't have people to film it. I'd possibly be interested in shooting 15 minutes of source video that the people can use (and edit in the way they want).
- I like to build a creative story/vision behind the movie - not just building a 1-shot VFX-shot, so maybe it would be nice to put something about that in the rules? Also an independent 'story' catagory on 'storytelling' would be very cool!
- I would like a subject with lots of creative freedom. Besides reproducing Hollywood-effects-shots (on which you won't have too much freedom), it could be interesting to use a cinematoghraper/director as subject. With 'Tim Burton' for instance, you could get lots of veeery cool stuff! (hmm... maybe also a bit because to me Tim is the king of the world ;) ) Other ideas for 'this people of Hollywood': Rick Heinrichs, Janusz Kaminski, Terry Gilliam, Peter Jackson, Stanley Kubrich and such 'great people' out of what you'd have a great range of originality and creative freedom.
- About the judging process: it would be even more rewarding if this went more like the CGChallenges: a CGT-members voting for the best 5, and let an industrial proffessional pick out the ultimate winner. For instance asking Dennis Muren to do that would be... amazing! And also: it would pull lots of new people to this FX-Warforum, as it'd be just veeery rewarding to get judged by 'a king of the VFX'. It's just an idea: it might sound silly, but to me it would work! :)

My fingers need a drink now! ;) I hope my vision on this challenges is valuable for the further ones! :) All the best to all fellow-FX(Wars)-people!
-Gijs

[JB]

Or do you guys prefer something called FX-TAXIDERMY and recreate some new/classic FX sequences. IE: The Predator FX, the desitegration FX of the remake War of the Worlds, Bullet time, Escape the TX FX from The Ring, The water tentacle from The Abyss .



That's an even better idea. Recreating classic FX and doing recent FX shots using your own ideas for the look.

[Bonedaddy]

I think the deadlines are more than enough time. The real world has much harsher ones -- last week, I had to learn Maya Cloth and Fur from scratch well enough to make a photoreal simulation of someone fluffing out a golf course. I managed to do it in four days, by the skin of my teeth.

This week I've got to learn Realflow and Mental Ray shader development from scratch in order to create a photoreal soda commercial. Probably by the end of the week.

It's all in budgeting your time, and learning how to best do your tests. That's the true key to being an effective FX TD. In my opinion, one month is plenty of time for this sort of thing.

[dax3d]

Lol...Bonedaddy I feel for you. A couple of weeks ago I came back from lunch, and my supervisor asked me "can you have fluid effects fire by 5:00?".

It was 2:00
I never touched fluids
We're basically an all XSI house
:eek:

[ivanisavich]

Personally I'd like to see more dynamics based challenges. I didn't participate back then...but I really enjoyed the trebuchet and rollercoaster challenges.

Also....doing a challenge with a supplied piece of footage (ie...an effect shot where the criteria is that everyone has to use the same footage) would be cool. They'd definitely need a theme or whatever, but that way everyone is on the same playing field and has access to the same raw materials (since us camera-less folk "miss out" sometimes when the other entries are able to do shoots ;))

[RockinAkin]

The FXWars need more strippers and stripper oriented challenges.

:D

Seriously though, Roberto, you've heard what I've been thinking about for the FXWars.
Major Sponsors, Organized (and Specialized) Teams, A better/more clear site interface to post our progress online (such as the CG Challenges website), And a standard bi-monthly challenge schedule (6 weeks to work, 2 weeks to post, vote, and promote).

[CobraX]

- A month for me is what the time-frame should be.
That way you might be able to have different kinds of effects to learn. Also for people who want to join but are too late to do it don't have to wait too long for the next one. And as bonedaddy stated, in the industry you don't have the luxury of time, so better get used to it now, and get motivated to make time for these challenges.

It's nice to see that the FXWars are still alive and that more people get involved in it.
I hope it grows without forgetting what is good about these challenges...short time frame to do a cool shot, on a specific type of effect. To me the CGChallenges from cgsociety are too long, 3 months...is way too long for me.


I also like the idea of a compositing challenge....as it's a major plus for whoever does FX...to integrate your own FX. Light it correctly...and composite it correctly.

Anyways, Roberto congratulations for having this cool forum still up and Long Live the FX Wars man!

I hope it goes the best way possible!!


Xavier.

[aonikoyi]

Well, I do not have that much experience in the industry but I am currently a student that I will keep on the low right now. However since Ive started which has only been 8wks now. We have worked on a few challenging projects. which at the time seemed ridiculous but I quickly found out how much work it was and how much you can do if you have the proper focus ie time etc.

I also had, the wrong idea of what and FX artist really is. I guess you can summarize it as doing the little things like greeking, photogrammetry, compositing, camera mapping, wire removal, cleaning plates etc. It more about the grimmy type of work not designing Golum and what not. I kinda see fx artists in another light now. My instructor always says it all about hacking and making it believable in the shortest amount of time.

I also think the challenges should be fun but also centered on material an employer can see on one's reel as valuable. Also it would be nice to encourage folks who are willing to do the challenges to finish it and get valuable feedback regardless if they win or not. I think it should be about the process not pretty t-shirt at the finish line.

[SoLiTuDe]

- A month for me is what the time-frame should be.
That way you might be able to have different kinds of effects to learn. Also for people who want to join but are too late to do it don't have to wait too long for the next one. And as bonedaddy stated, in the industry you don't have the luxury of time, so better get used to it now, and get motivated to make time for these challenges.

Xavier.

Another good point -- people join too late or whatever so the battle/rotating competitions would be cool... maybe 6 weeks for a finished fx war, and maybe 2 weeks for the battles... 3 battles per war... kinda works out I think... They get plugged more often (one every two weeks, with the chance to lead into the main war, and they give more chances for other people to join in. and of course I think they should maybe be related like I said earlier...

It'd still be really nice for some supplied footage. I wish there was a place online for just some random plates... It's gotta be the hardest thing to find right now. :scream:

[DoubleSupercool]

Just posting to agree on the supplied footage and live/action + fx comping. Surely someone has access to decent footage. How about getting the Reel | Stream/Adromeda guys onboard for a little cross promotion (see the 4:4:4 thread in the cinemetography forum (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=254109)- completely lossless HD footage - sweet for keying :)

[SOE digital]

Definately NOT a fan of recreating movie scenes. Where's the creativity? In the process? Boring I think.
I have no problem with the way things are being done so far.

[MasterZap]

I think the FXWars should be much more narrowly defined. Not just "do the ocean".

More like "Here is the storyboard. Car comes in frame right, rams the mailbox, crashes through the hedge, hits the house. Closeup of roof tile falling down and hitting the hood".

Define what is holy:
CAMERA ANGLE A and B a must
Define what is free:
COLOR OF CAR DONT MATTER, rooftile-fall can use "creative" camera.

And most important. ASSETS. As in "here is the car model, here is the house model, here is the hedge, feel free to fill out the neigbourhood any way you want".

And before you panic about assets you could just simply point to page XYZ on TurboSquid or something for models.

That way:

- EVERYBODY knows WHAT to do
- There is stuff to do it WITH

Todays open-ended challenges are too unstructured and forces people to model from scrach every nut and bolt..... If you are a rendering maestro but can't model beyond the max teapot (that would be me ;) ) how can you make a car crash? You can't.

/Z

[jussing]

I'm pretty satisfied with how they are run, now, too. Just didn't have time to finish this one. The timeframe was good though.

NOT a big fan of recreating exact scenes or shots from movies.

I like the idea of creating movie-ish shots though, such as "big freeze" or "ocean", it leaves plenty of room for variation.

Wouldn't like an entirely open challenge either, where one participant can do sandstorm, and another can do spaceships. It has to be the same ballgame. :)

Cheerio,
- Jonas

[RFX]

I think the FXWars should be much more narrowly defined. Not just "do the ocean".

More like "Here is the storyboard. Car comes in frame right, rams the mailbox, crashes through the hedge, hits the house. Closeup of roof tile falling down and hitting the hood".

Define what is holy:
CAMERA ANGLE A and B a must
Define what is free:
COLOR OF CAR DONT MATTER, rooftile-fall can use "creative" camera.

And most important. ASSETS. As in "here is the car model, here is the house model, here is the hedge, feel free to fill out the neigbourhood any way you want".

And before you panic about assets you could just simply point to page XYZ on TurboSquid or something for models.

That way:

- EVERYBODY knows WHAT to do
- There is stuff to do it WITH

Todays open-ended challenges are too unstructured and forces people to model from scrach every nut and bolt..... If you are a rendering maestro but can't model beyond the max teapot (that would be me ;) ) how can you make a car crash? You can't.

/Z


I like your idea, about given the storyboards, and some assets, sounds like a good idea.

[RobertoOrtiz]

Hey Boricua,

One idea that I had is to have the good folks at the Daily sketch forum provide some finished storyboards.

One idea that I wanter to try is to do some retro sci fi challenges (by that I mean Flash Gordon). The people in the art forums would do the desings and storyboards, and you guys would do the 3d assets and animations.

What do you guys think?


-R

[JB]

One idea that I wanter to try is to do some retro sci fi challenges (by that I mean Flash Gordon). The people in the art forums would do the desings and storyboards, and you guys would do the 3d assets and animations.

What do you guys think?


-R


That's the best idea I've heard so far Roberto. The main thing I don't want changed is the timeframe, I think it should be 1 month, 6 weeks at the most.

[blasphemy3_d]

I agree with the idea that everybody has only a few free time so I think that providing the plates is a great idea. Anyway I know that it is very difficult to get good plates. they are very expensive.

[jjstanley]

Personally I like to see creativity pushed to the limit and I don't think that recreating scenes does that. I would like to see something similar to the PhotoChop contest at 3DBUZZ. We could be supplied with a one or two selections of stock footage and then anyone can create any kind of effect out of it that they can imagine. I am always amazed with the PhotoChop contest how diverse the final products are.

I would be happy to shoot some footage and I know there are a few others around the forum with cameras too so I'm sure we could get some interesting footage. It would be really fun to see what people envision taking place in the scene and watching it come to life!

[RobertoOrtiz]

One thing,

I never ever look at contest on other sites.

That way we can keep things original in the site.

:)

Having said that,
we need all the free footage we can get.

-R

[charleyc]

I really like the idea of provided footage (especially the 4:4:4 footage idea :D ) As was mentioned, a lot of people have access to cameras. Perhaps a call for theme footage (maybe even with provided story boards) can be made a week or whatever proir to a challange and a quick vote could pick the best footage for the challange. The more time that can be spent on the creativity of the effects and not on all the rest of a production, the better the results should be on everyones part. Another idea going along the lines of models and such, perhaps someone willing could be chosen early to create/find a few models that would be provided to the entants as desired. So if I want to model my own UFO, or just focus on something else and use the provided one, it would be up to me.

As for time frames, I don't mind long time frames, but I prefer the shorter ones. I really like the idea of running either 2-3 sub challanges in the process of 1 overall war. Or, shorter, non-related challanges running concurrent with longer challanges. One of my problems is that sometimes I am not interested in a current challange, but by the time one comes along I want to participate in, I am too busy to do so. So more smaller ones could allow for more opportunities to participate as well as greater variation overall.

[destruct007]

hey I just found this thread, and I'm in, sounds fun! I saw the oceans one... The forums a little cluttered, with so many ideas. What and when the next?

I'm up for anything, I kind of don't want to even sugest something because there are already a ton of good ideas.

[Lolec]

i`m not shure. I mean i like a lot the liberty to do what you like on a challenge. I love the retro sci-fi idea... should be the next challenge. i try to participate in the colaborative challenge but is hard to do work in an idea that is not yours... you can do that when you work . but the cool things about challenges is that you can learn a lot from sketching to rendering. just my 2 cents

[RobertoOrtiz]

Another idea that i want to try is to push the idea of trying different methods to do fxs.

for example people could use toy models or creative use of photos.

-r

[prestonChuckles]

I like to just look at this kind of stuff since I am learning it as I go and I like to see what people are doing. Having said that, I'm sure this idea will be shot down, but maybe have the winners give a little presentation on their winning pieces and how they were done. Nothing spectacular, unless that person wanted it to be, but just some simple instructions on how to recreate the scene.

*shrug* just my 2 cents. Someday I will enter these.

[MasterZap]

i`m not shure. I mean i like a lot the liberty to do what you like on a challenge. I love the retro sci-fi idea... should be the next challenge. i try to participate in the colaborative challenge but is hard to do work in an idea that is not yours... you can do that when you work . but the cool things about challenges is that you can learn a lot from sketching to rendering. just my 2 cents

Retro Sci-Fi is like my most favourite topic ever.

I used to have a band (http://www.BeatSymphony.com) 100% dedicated to it.

Steampunk. Hoverblimps. Computers made of cast iron and brass gears. Mmmmm.

/Z

[mdillender]

I like the current timeframe (6 to 8 weeks) for challenges. I also love the idea of a movie/tv fx remake. Makes it easier for those of us with less imagination as well as gives us a good reference. Why not emulate those that are already in the biz!


Martin

[jussing]

Why not emulate those that are already in the biz!IMO, putting an obviously plagiarizing shot on a reel is not a good idea.

Cheers,
- Jonas

[Lolec]

roberto that will be very cool !!! to use stop motion and that kind of stuff... i like it , looking forward to this one .

[mdillender]

jussing, i agree you on the reel part but it's a great way to keep learning...plus, this might give me the opportunity to pull out an old movie.

Maybe we could even have the challenge around a subtle FX that people don't really think about.

Martin

[DoubleSupercool]

I like to just look at this kind of stuff since I am learning it as I go and I like to see what people are doing. Having said that, I'm sure this idea will be shot down, but maybe have the winners give a little presentation on their winning pieces and how they were done. Nothing spectacular, unless that person wanted it to be, but just some simple instructions on how to recreate the scene.

*shrug* just my 2 cents. Someday I will enter these.

Absolutely! Winners should give a walkthrough of how they achieved results. Obviously they don't have to give away their secrets or *exactly* what they did, but it would be interesting to see the process.

[RobertoOrtiz]

Ok one thing,

shhould we create "a pool " of life action foottage for each of the challenges?
If so, where do we get it?

-R

[charleyc]

How about setting up a few generic story boards and let those with cameras submit what they can based on those.

[JB]

I have a DV camcorder, nothing special but I could possibly provide footage if the subject was right. Just don't ask for blue/green screen footage :eek:

[SoLiTuDe]

...maybe i could put up a bulletin at my school...

[RFX]

I also happen to have a Panasonic PV-GS400.

[charleyc]

I have a friend that has a fairly decent DV camera (I beleive it is the Sony AG-DVX100), it is a lot better than my basic camcorder. I have a greenscreen, but sometimes lack the on screen talent (I will not get in front of a camera) to get things done. But having done a bit of DV keying, it would be a lot of fun to get better footage for that. Perhaps a general call could be made to a larger group of the CGTalk community for that sort of thing?

[eek]

Id like to see more invisible effects challenges.

add snow to a scene
replace all the vehicles
make a city look abandonded
etc etc

[RFX]

Id like to see more invisible effects challenges.

add snow to a scene
replace all the vehicles
make a city look abandonded
etc etc


I also like this idea.

[JB]

So...when does the next one start? :D

[RFX]

So...when does the next one start? :D

I agree with that :D

[DoubleSupercool]

Perhaps an "official" request email from el Roberto to the Reel | Stream guys or on their webboard. Of course all entries would credit the person supplying the footage.

[CobraX]

When does the next Challenge start : :D

[RobertoOrtiz]

People give me at least a week until I bulletprrof the rules.


-R

[SoLiTuDe]

interesting... did they just change the front page? I now see FXWARS under Mini Competitions... that's pretty cool...

[jigu]

interesting... did they just change the front page? I now see FXWARS under Mini Competitions... that's pretty cool...

yeah i thought this section is closed....but everything is changed. now more ppl can join this..

[CobraX]

For improving the forum, i would suggest that the threads should be under a FXWars Challenge folder, so that each challenge has its folder.

Meaning, if you have a volcano challenge:

It goes like this

CGTalk > Mini Challenges > FXWARS Forum > Volcano FXWars Challenge > Volcano: CobraX's entry.

So that under FXWARS Forum you would have:

FXWARS Forum:
--->Open Ocean FXWars Challenge
--->Volcano FXWars Challenge
--->Deep Freeze FXWars Challenge
--->Earthquake FXWars Challenge....and so on.

Xavier.

[RockinAkin]

Yeah, I agree, there should be a folder for Archived FXWars entries.
And this forum will contain all of the current challenge's entries.

That will clean up a LOT of the clutter.

[destruct007]

agreed, that's a must!

[RobertoOrtiz]

Ill ask for it, but no promises...


BTW I will announce the topic of the next challenge tonight.

One clue..
It is a SEQUEL to an older challenge.

-R

[JB]

Ill ask for it, but no promises...


BTW I will announce the topic of the next challenge tonight.

One clue..
It is a SEQUEL to an older challenge.

-R


Car Crash II, Electric Boogaloo?

[Lolec]

retro car crash ? make a carcrash with retro tequniques :) ... just dreming...

[RobertoOrtiz]

The retro thing is another challenge...


(Keep in mind, I am organizing a couple of FUTURE challenges at the same time)
:)
-R

[Lolec]

:D cant wait ! :drool:

[CobraX]

Ok people lets talk.

I would like for this subforum to continue to do well, and for that I need to hear you input.

What can we do do improve the forum?

For improving the forum, i would suggest that the threads should be under a FXWars Challenge folder, so that each challenge has its folder.

Meaning, if you have a volcano challenge:

It goes like this

CGTalk > Mini Challenges > FXWARS Forum > Volcano FXWars Challenge > Volcano: CobraX's entry.

So that under FXWARS Forum you would have:

FXWARS Forum:
--->Open Ocean FXWars Challenge
--->Volcano FXWars Challenge
--->Deep Freeze FXWars Challenge
--->Earthquake FXWars Challenge....and so on.

Xavier.


I just thought organising the threads might help improving the forum Robie. :)
You are doing a great job man!

Cheers!

Xavier.

[RobertoOrtiz]

It begins...

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=341356


-R

[Nando3D]

Roberto Why Race Car CRASH again ??

I mean this is more modelling and animation than dynamics and simulation... you can't simulate the crash you have to key animated... i dont think is the righ topic for FX wars challange .

Just my opinion. I will prefer more real life topics, erathquake, tsunami, hurricanes etc..anyway good luck every one

Chao

[charleyc]

I disagree. In a normal car crash you typically have speeds from 30-80 mph (not sure how that translates to kilometers). You get a lot of crumpled metal, broken glass/plastic and perhaps a bit of rollover and such. But with a race car (especially think indy style) you can have speeds of 200+ mph. At that speed, the car can nearly disentigrate making for all sorts of flying debris, rolling/flipping/cartwheeling of the car, and very often flames. This is a quite good scenerio for an FXWar challenge I think.

[RobertoOrtiz]

I disagree. In a normal car crash you typically have speeds from 30-80 mph (not sure how that translates to kilometers). You get a lot of crumpled metal, broken glass/plastic and perhaps a bit of rollover and such. But with a race car (especially think indy style) you can have speeds of 200+ mph. At that speed, the car can nearly disentigrate making for all sorts of flying debris, rolling/flipping/cartwheeling of the car, and very often flames. This is a quite good scenerio for an FXWar challenge I think.

To expand that point here are some videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eptCg-fLJqA&search=indy%20car%20crash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3SZZBrMeEk&search=f1%20car%20crash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01RO_U2mfuo&search=f1%20car%20crash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAwyKojqvp4&search=f1%20car%20crash

This challenge will be REALLY hard.

-R

[destruct007]

Roberto Why Race Car CRASH again ??
I mean this is more modelling and animation than dynamics and simulation... you can't simulate the crash you have to key animated...
Chao


yeah there is modeling, I'm going to get a 2 cars from 3dcafe tweak them a bit, make one more model of each roughtly smashed the and rest is debris and smoke, maybe fire. I'd probably not even have a blend frame to the smashed version, just sump to smashed car, and see parts and crap going flying ... look at the art work done to help you think of crashes that won't have as much modeling.
if all else fails just make good looking smoke/fire to "hide the suck in a firey ball of flames..."

[charleyc]

Check out www.turbosquid.com (http://www.turbosquid.com) (do a seach for race car) and you will find some pretty decent free models

[ACantarel]

edit: deleted :)

[charleyc]

ACantarel - While that is all good and true, the point of the challenge is the effects. While in some studios it is not uncommon for the effects artist to also model/rig/texture everything in a shot, there are a lot that do not and as such many effects artists cannot do all of that well. If the point of the challenge (in terms of voting) be placed on the overall of the effects, and due credit is given, I see no reason why this should matter. In a team effort, perhaps all one person did was model. Think of that here.

In fact to even go further, I wouldn't mind seeing the challenges such that all models are provided. Therefore the playing field would be leveled quite well.

[CobraX]

Also, you might want to check out the free models offered by the CGSociety... :)
They have been posted a while ago but are not bad.

Enjoy!

http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=1115&page=

[Dutchman]

Whoohoo, really cool to see a next FXWar on the run! :) Unless I really like the fact that it is finally getting some more interaction with the other forums (Speedpaint-forum), I won't be participating.

Reason 1: the theme is creatively not challenging enough to me (as liveaction stuff and roto/compositing stuff won't be very nessecary, and as you don't have as much creative freedom as with previous challenges).

Reason 2: I've been doing the previous FXWars twice, because I had no interesting CG projects on the run. On this moment I have the 'Journey Begins', VFX for a short movie and the script and developing of another short of my own. And besides that I have to design some industrial stuff for my study. So Roberto: I'll leave you alone on this one! :twisted: ;)


The suggestion of an 'FXWars-archieve' is a very cool one. Also we should once make a compilation of all FXWars-entries till now! I'm sure you can almost fill a 2 hours movie with it! Would be cool, aint it? :shrug: :bounce:
All the best luck to the entrants, and congratulations to Roberto for finally getting the interaction between the other forums better! :)
-Gijs

[prestonChuckles]

I was really looking forward to doing a challenge, but I have to agree with the comments from some of the others. Albeit I am not a huge part of this forum, I just thought I would throw in my two cents.

I went to turbosquid and found alot of models that cost money, but none free. Maybe I am a retard and couldn't find them, though. Also, pretty much all of them were not in a Maya compliant file type.

I have to sit this one out, it seems, since I don't have time to model a race car or the environment for it or anything. The thoughts about having models provided for something like this would be very useful. But I think that this challenge steers (heh, get it?) away from a vfx theme and more into an animating and environmental field.

Roberto, I love this forum and hope to work on future challenges, but this one isn't really what I was looking forward to.

[destruct007]

http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Index.cfm?intMediaType=2&intCategory1=20057&INTFILETYPE_3=0&INTFILETYPE_2=0&BLSHOWCATEGORYSELECT=TRUE&BLSEARCHGAMEREADYONLY=FALSE&ISTSEARCHKEY=&INTFILETYPE_1=0&INTRATINGCOUNT=0&BLKEEPCHECK=y&INTBUNDLEID=&ISTINCAUTHOR=&ISTEXCAUTHOR=&FUSEACTION=ProcessSmartSearch&FLTRATING=0&DATEBEFOREPUB=&STGBOOLEAN=L&INTMAXPRICE=&STGTYPE=&DATEAFTERPUB=&INTSTARTROW=1&ISTEXCKEY=&INTMINPRICE=&stgAD=15J244404040441&stgOrderColumn=A5&intSortOrder=1&blViewType=1&blViewTypeTip=y&intMaxResults=50

free cars, lots of them...

I can't belive some people are shying away from this one! I'm tempted to do this challenge w/o modeling a single thing! Just download 2 cars and go to town. Sheesh. if you want to just do fx make a car explode, just make a car explode, then if you have time add debris, if you have more time add a tire, if you have more time key frame it driving into a wall before your explosion. done.
This is very creative challenge. You just have to see it as such, think of a camera angle to best show off what you want to show, and hide what you need to hide, that's movie making since the begining. buildings that are just the front with no back, cars exploding that shouldn't explode, it's fun, if you can be creative and work with it.

this is an fx challenge, war even. Please don't make excuses for not doing it. You're not talking a stand against something, everyone isn't always going to be happy with the challenge. I just can't see why anyone feels this is too much modeling. DON'T DO THE CRUNCHING METEL if you don't want. I'm also not going to texture any of it for more than a half hour if that.

for me I'm thinking of a mix between CarlWahl (explosion) and DeeVad's (crash set-up/layout)... but we'll see how ti all turns out

[CobraX]

destruct007 is riiight!!

Make no excuse!!

...so where is that Car Crash No2 Thread???

I hope my entry gets to Luma Pictures!! :D :p....probably i need more practise....

Cheers!

Xavier.

[rakmaya]

http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Index.cfm?intMediaType=2&intCategory1=20057&INTFILETYPE_3=0&INTFILETYPE_2=0&BLSHOWCATEGORYSELECT=TRUE&BLSEARCHGAMEREADYONLY=FALSE&ISTSEARCHKEY=&INTFILETYPE_1=0&INTRATINGCOUNT=0&BLKEEPCHECK=y&INTBUNDLEID=&ISTINCAUTHOR=&ISTEXCAUTHOR=&FUSEACTION=ProcessSmartSearch&FLTRATING=0&DATEBEFOREPUB=&STGBOOLEAN=L&INTMAXPRICE=&STGTYPE=&DATEAFTERPUB=&INTSTARTROW=1&ISTEXCKEY=&INTMINPRICE=&stgAD=15J244404040441&stgOrderColumn=A5&intSortOrder=1&blViewType=1&blViewTypeTip=y&intMaxResults=50

free cars, lots of them...

I can't belive some people are shying away from this one! I'm tempted to do this challenge w/o modeling a single thing! Just download 2 cars and go to town. Sheesh. if you want to just do fx make a car explode, just make a car explode, then if you have time add debris, if you have more time add a tire, if you have more time key frame it driving into a wall before your explosion. done.
This is very creative challenge. You just have to see it as such, think of a camera angle to best show off what you want to show, and hide what you need to hide, that's movie making since the begining. buildings that are just the front with no back, cars exploding that shouldn't explode, it's fun, if you can be creative and work with it.

Really interested in this. Will try my time as much as i can on this one. Anything with such effects ar ethe most fum for me.

Thanks for the link man.

[destruct007]

I'll post the cars I'm going to use on my site when I convert them to maya and clean them up... textures.... ah maybe we'll see how much that is to do. I can tell you right now I'm planning on useing the "toyota celica gt4 wrc" and the "Mercedes CLK.3ds.max.zip" if the geometry sucks I may change. I want to do a rally race crash so I can add dirt/sand into the equation. if you're thinking f1 I might clean on of those up quick, we'll see I'll let you know tonight.

[rakmaya]

Thanks a bunch destruct. Yeah F1s are what I am going for. Thinking about mixing it with a real race track scene. I am off to looking for some race track. I am asking my friend if he could get some shots from the Deleware track there. If he can't, might end up modeling it but wanted to try all else before getting to that point.

[destruct007]

I don't think I can post the turbo squid models now that I think about it. You'll have to do that yourself. I have a link for importing max files into maya below.

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/236924

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/290772

importing max files.
http://www.arch.columbia.edu/index.php?pageData=49897

[Bonedaddy]

Man... if I had a copy of Maya at home, I'd probably do this one.

[RobertoOrtiz]

To those reading this thread.

You guys are getting a head start.
I will post the rules soon.

BTW the races can be historic, or fantasy.


-R

[destruct007]

are those the only choices? historic or fantasy? or in addition to all kinds of races?... ok ok I'll wait for the rules :)

[aeres]

Historic or Fantasy?

Does that mean the cars doesn't neccesarily have wheels?

[Bonedaddy]

Dude! Ben Hur! Horse ragdoll dynamics!

Schweeeeeeeet.

[Nando3D]

ok I didn't want to start a WAR here... I'm maybe not good enough to modell a full car... but as some people sugessted free models are avalible...
great idea destruct007 i will try that .....

good luck everyone

[RobertoOrtiz]

I am slowly posting the support threads.
The rules should be up before Friday

THE RACE CRASH SIGNUP LIST: Post here those who are looking for partners/teams (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=317330)

BTW I stronly encourage more TEAM entries for this one.
Also I added the cathegory of VFX Supervisor for team entries.
(and yes, if someone wants to do a charriot race, they can do it/ BUT it has to have a crash)

-R

[destruct007]

(and yes, if someone wants to do a charriot race, they can do it/ BUT it has to have a crash)

even better if in the charriot race crash there's a big explosion!

[JB]

even better if in the charriot race crash there's a big explosion!

Exploding horses? Now that's a challenge! :beer:

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