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Vizfizz
03-27-2006, 09:58 AM
Hello Everyone. I've been given permission by the Igors to make an announcement here on CGTalk about the release of Mr. Revolver for the Electric Image community on Monday, March 27.

I am so excited about this product. First off, this a plugin that has been designed for the community by the community. Throughout Animator's history, EIAS has been reliant on obtaining geometry through an outside modeling source. Whether its EIM, Silo, Form Z or some other software package, EIAS had no real method of modeling within Animator itself.

With the advent of Mr. Revolver, this has now changed. Though not intended as a complete modeling solution, Mr. Revolver provides users with the abilty generate hard surface geometry quickly and easily. When combined with its sister plugins, Mrs. Bebel, Encage, and EIAS' own internal deformation system, a number of shapes and forms can be created without the hassle of jumping in and out of another software package.

In addition to its modeling capabilities, Revolver also provides a number of animation channels including the abilty to animate a model down to the individual control point level. This is a first for EI.

Revolvers key tools include:

1. An internal cross section editor capable of generating outlines for revolving or surfaces for extruding when combined with Mrs. Bebel.

2. The ability to revolve imported child line objects.

3. Adjustable revolve resolution for both Animator and Camera.

4. Partial revolve capabilties. (Which can also be animated)

5. Section control. Create a shape through a partial revolve and then replicate that shape around the Y axis.

6. Offset functions. (Which can also be animated)

7. Custom smoothing controls, normals control, and automatic UV coordinate generation,

8. Capping functions for both U and V directions.

9. RangeU. This tool allows users to define where along the cross section's U direction to actually generate geometry. This value can also be animated.

10. Time Travel. This tool allows a user to manipulate a cross section over time and position resulting in the ability to generate spirals and other custom effects.

11. Internal graph editor with a number of tools helpful in aligning and distributing points. Mirror functions, equidistant offseting tools, 2d point scaling capabilties and more.

Pricing Information for Mr. Revolver:

Introduction Price (First Month):
$75 - For Mrs. Bebel Users
$125 - For All Others

Final Price:
$100 - For Mrs. Bebel Users
$150 - For All Others

Comments, questions and additional information can be obtained by contacting the Igors, Konkeptione or myself.

Information and ordering on Konkeptoine's website will be available shortly.

http://www.konkeptoine.com

Vizfizz
03-27-2006, 10:02 AM
More Pictures

Vizfizz
03-27-2006, 10:03 AM
More Pictures

Vizfizz
03-27-2006, 10:05 AM
Additional Pictures

Vizfizz
03-27-2006, 10:27 AM
And oh.. one more thing. :) I've created 5 demo videos which are being uploaded to the server for review. Stay tuned to see Revolver in action.

Vizfizz
03-27-2006, 06:12 PM
Hi Everyone.

In addition to the samples above, I took some time last night to whip out a couple of demo movies on Revolver. I couldn't get to EVERY function, but at least it gives you a better idea of what the plugin can do.

The files are qt mpg4 files that should stream quickly and efficiently. Their resolution is 1152x600, so set your screens accordingly.

Take a look and enjoy.

http://homepage.mac.com/cake_or_death/Revolver1bp.mov
http://homepage.mac.com/cake_or_death/Revolver2bp.mov
http://homepage.mac.com/cake_or_death/Revolver3bp.mov
http://homepage.mac.com/cake_or_death/Revolver4bp.mov
http://homepage.mac.com/cake_or_death/Revolver5bp.mov

I'm working on my screen presence.. so no jokes about how I look or talk!

Vizfizz
03-27-2006, 06:50 PM
More Images

tjs61822
03-27-2006, 09:30 PM
Brian, these are great! Nice addition to Konkeptoine's manual. Really like how you show that the plugins are designed to work together. Looking forward to seeing more.

Tim

evant
03-28-2006, 12:50 AM
so here's my take on this:

it looks absolutely great. definitely a worthwhile plug.

i think the price is too high - i mean, silo is $109. i'm all for supporting developers, it just seems high to me. also, why have a separate price for ms. bebel users? to get people to buy ms. bebel? maybe come up with a bundle price that is reduced if you buy both on top of the current pricing.

here's what i'd like to see in a future release:

1. image underlays that can be traced over.
2. import of illustrator splines. maybe get wes' old xSpline functionality in here.
3. bezier curves. we have them in EI already, they should be in here too :)

i'm loving what i'm seeing in the sample pics. anyone have sample movies of the animation features of the plug?

Vizfizz
03-28-2006, 02:34 AM
so here's my take on this:

it looks absolutely great. definitely a worthwhile plug.

i think the price is too high - i mean, silo is $109. i'm all for supporting developers, it just seems high to me. also, why have a separate price for ms. bebel users? to get people to buy ms. bebel? maybe come up with a bundle price that is reduced if you buy both on top of the current pricing.

here's what i'd like to see in a future release:

1. image underlays that can be traced over.
2. import of illustrator splines. maybe get wes' old xSpline functionality in here.
3. bezier curves. we have them in EI already, they should be in here too :)

i'm loving what i'm seeing in the sample pics. anyone have sample movies of the animation features of the plug?

Hi Evan,

Thanks for the compliments. This is a v01 release and we've talked quite a bit about what you've suggested. Let me address just a couple of your questions.

1. Price. This is obviously going to be a bit of a sticking point for some people. Your argument is sound. Why pay anywhere between $75 - $150 for a plugin when I can purchase a dedicated modeler for $109? Well I can give you a couple of reasons.

- Price is relative to the size of EITG's market share. There are less EI users to market to compared to the broader appeal a modeler like Silo can muster. The programmers need to make a living too. ;) Smaller user pool = larger price tag. Its easy for us to say, "just lower the price"...you'll sell more. When in reality, that may not be true. Supporting the programmers means supporting the community which ultimately means more product development and sales of EI in the future.

- Compatibility: With Revolver and Bebel you'll get 100% compatible models because its generated within EIAS itself. Silo exports its fact models. So most of the time, compatibility wont be an issue. However, if you do not use Silo, translating with Transporter is in your future. The two plugins are positioned together because they compliment one another. Revolver can produce surface geometry that can be extruded with Bebel. Its part of Konkeptoine's mini-modeler solution.

- Speed: Generating geometry within the host package is quicker and more efficient. UV generation is also automatic.

- Animation: This is a big one. Dedicated modelers are unable to modify the construction of their geometry within Animator on the fly. With Revolver you have access to a number of animation channels including animation down to the individual control point.

- Variable resolution: Need more geometry? Up the resolution. With outside modeling packages you're stuck launching another program, retesselating, and reexporting. You'll have to swap out models in Animator, which can be a pain, and anything could potentially go wrong in any one of those stages.

Don't get me wrong. There are plenty of reasons to use a dedicated modeler, but Revolver is marketed towards those who need internal geometry generation quickly and easily. More complex organic modeling is obviously going to require an outside modeling package.

Feature requests:

Underlays: Unfortunately this is not possible with EIAS current plugin API. Doesn't mean it couldn't be a future feature if EITG lends a hand.

Illustrator Support: This is a great idea, but one that takes a considerable amount of resources to muster. Don't count this one out...but don't hold your breath either. Its gonna have to wait for the future and by then, we might have better solutions in place.

Bezier Support: This is actually more of a possibilty than Illustrator support at this time, however again, not something that was feasible within the programmer's timeframe for a v01 release. If Revolver is a success.. I could see this in v02. In the meanwhile, the programmers have given us Path2Line. A supplemental free plugin that converts motion path curves into geometry that can then be revolved with Revolver as a child object. Its a decent compromise and can be edited on the fly. By using Path2Line, you can then "draw" in EIAS' main work windows.

halfworld
03-28-2006, 09:01 AM
i'm loving what i'm seeing in the sample pics. anyone have sample movies of the animation features of the plug?

There are some on http://www.konkeptoine.com/

It's great to have this function inside the animation workflow, and as the Igors have said: Maya can't even do some of the things this plug-in can.

And we all like getting one over on Maya don't we ;)
Ian

Igors
03-28-2006, 09:59 AM
Hi, Evan
i think the price is too high - i mean, silo is $109. i'm all for supporting developers, it just seems high to me. also, why have a separate price for ms. bebel users? to get people to buy ms. bebel? maybe come up with a bundle price that is reduced if you buy both on top of the current pricing.Well, we heard a lot about a big deficit of "integrated modeling tools", but when one of them is here.. you remember about silo $109 :) Looks like you need a very cheap or, better yet, free integration :)
About Mrs+Mr price. Here are no any plans/wishes to use Mr to get people to buy Mrs. All (or absolute most) who wanted Bebel plug-in have bought it long ago. Thus for most users the price is $75. Look at all EI plug-ins' history, and we aren't sure you can find such balance of features/price as in MrRevolver.

Ok, but what if nevertheless you are not a Mrs user, or you want to buy plug-in later, when your project needs it? That's absolute normal approach, but in this case the price is bigger (but absolute in range of normal prices for EI plug-ins and not near high for concrete prj - especially for a rush prj).

A few words more about "price aspect". First, you can hear "high plug-ins' price" anywhere and with any host, not in EI only. Second, market has its laws and kicks anyone who violates them. An escapade like "MrRevolver $50" would have only sad consequences for developers and users as well, sure!

here's what i'd like to see in a future release:

1. image underlays that can be traced over.
2. import of illustrator splines. maybe get wes' old xSpline functionality in here.
3. bezier curves. we have them in EI already, they should be in here too :)
All those themes were discussed in public beta-testing. Let us answer with a question. Now, March 28, you see the ready plug-in with rational functionality. Yes, without features you listed. Imagine they are added, BUT you'll see the result, say, in middle of next June. And, alas, with significantly higher price. What do you prefer?

About "future releases". Yep, it's better to be "health and rich", not "ill and poor":) It would be nice to have powerful new products and also cool upgrades same time. But practically we need to select: a new plug-in OR upgrade. And, IMO, a new plug-in is the right choice now.

i'm loving what i'm seeing in the sample pics. anyone have sample movies of the animation features of the plug?Yes, you are right. The cause is the game that Ian and we played :) : use "MrRevolver only". Here are only a few exceptions: Brian and Mike used Mr+Mrs combo, "The Engine" sample uses Fire plug-in. Of course, Ubershape planes were used here and there. All others models were done with MrRevolver, without any additional modeling tools.

evant
03-28-2006, 05:09 PM
Hi Igors,

This plugin looks great. Please don't take anything I say badly - I think what you have built here is absolutely needed for EI's workflow. You have created a winning plug-in.

Hi, Evan
Well, we heard a lot about a big deficit of "integrated modeling tools", but when one of them is here.. you remember about silo $109 :) Looks like you need a very cheap or, better yet, free integration :)

Let me say first that I was just comparing prices. Your plug-in is not out of line with other plug-ins for EI. The issue is that there are quite a few things that EI is lacking and for those of us that have owned EI for a very long time, the plug-ins that keep coming along with great new features add to the overall cost. It just keeps adding up! If I was a flying logo guy, I would probably buy this plug-in in a heartbeat. But since I'm not, at least right now, I wanted to voice what I thought would add lots of benefits to the plug-in.

About Mrs+Mr price. Here are no any plans/wishes to use Mr to get people to buy Mrs. All (or absolute most) who wanted Bebel plug-in have bought it long ago. Thus for most users the price is $75. Look at all EI plug-ins' history, and we aren't sure you can find such balance of features/price as in MrRevolver.

Ok, but what if nevertheless you are not a Mrs user, or you want to buy plug-in later, when your project needs it? That's absolute normal approach, but in this case the price is bigger (but absolute in range of normal prices for EI plug-ins and not near high for concrete prj - especially for a rush prj).

A few words more about "price aspect". First, you can hear "high plug-ins' price" anywhere and with any host, not in EI only. Second, market has its laws and kicks anyone who violates them. An escapade like "MrRevolver $50" would have only sad consequences for developers and users as well, sure!

I understand your point. Dwindling user base is daunting to developers. It's also daunting to the users that have poured $ into this thing we love called EI.

All those themes were discussed in public beta-testing. Let us answer with a question. Now, March 28, you see the ready plug-in with rational functionality. Yes, without features you listed. Imagine they are added, BUT you'll see the result, say, in middle of next June. And, alas, with significantly higher price. What do you prefer?


Don't get me wrong, I think this is a worthy first offering. Lots more functionality than in lots of first offerings. I was just pointing out a natural upgrade path.

You have done great work here, and in what seems a very short amount of time.

Igors
03-28-2006, 07:55 PM
Hi, Evan
Please don't take anything I say badly - I think ..Don't worry, Evan, it was not hard to understand you cause your letter is normal requests of normal user. And, of course, it's your solution to buy the plug-in or nope and when.

We wanted only to say that not all bunch of problems can be (and should be) solved immediately, that a modest, but concrete steps forward is what you and we need IMHO

halfworld
03-29-2006, 08:11 AM
I understand your point. Dwindling user base is daunting to developers. .

There is nothing dwindling about the EI user base!

Things are on the up n up!
Ian :)

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