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michaelhughes
12-22-2002, 07:00 AM
Good afternoon. The team I am heading up is working on a first person shooter utilizing new technology that will allow us to have an exciting adventure using characters of twenty to fourty thousand polygons as well as environments of up to ten million polygons. Currently we have several publishers interested, however, before any commitments are made all have asked to see a small playable demo in addition to cinematic trailer. We are currently looking for individuals to fulfill the following roles in hopes of finishing these demos up by the end of January 2003. Since we are working on the demo right now, the only payment option available is royalties/equities. All work can be utilized in a portfolio. Principals have worked on past projects such as Bridge Commander, Omnikron, Soul Reaver, projects at Sega, as well as others. If interested please contact me and we can further discuss the positions.

3D Animator/Modeler
1. 4 Years Experience in 3D Modeling/Animation
2. Solid knowledge of Maya.
3. Strong modeling, animation, and texturing ability.
4. 2 Years Industry Experience [Recommended]
5. Special emphasis in facial modeling and animation a plus.

Cinematic Artist
1. 4 Years Experience in 3D Modeling/Animation
2. Solid knowledge of Maya.
3. Working knowledge of the storyboarding process.
4. 2 Years Industry Experience [Recommended]
5. Special emphasis in facial modeling and animation a plus.
6. Special emphasis on fluid transitions and high polygon count a plus.

Concept Artist
1. 4 Years Experience in Concept Drawing
2. Solid knowledge of Photoshop.
3. Working knowledge of storyboarding.
4. 2 Years Industry Experience [Recommended]
5. Ability to draw a variety of concepts from vehicles to people.

Environmental Artist
1. 4 Years Experience Designing Levels
2. Solid knowledge of 3D Studio Max
3. Ability to design interesting levels.
4. 2 Years Industry Experience [Recommended]
5. Strong mapping skills.

Lead Artist
1. 6 Years Experience in 3D Modeling/Animation/Concept Art.
2. Solid knowledge of Maya.
3. Solid knowledge of Photoshop.
4. Solid knowledge of 3D Studio Max.
5. 4 Years Industry Experience
6. Working knowledge of storyboarding.
7. Ability to draw a variety of concepts from vehicles to people.
8. Strong modeling, animation, and texturing ability.
9. Strong Management Skills.

Programmer [AI/Back-End/Network]
1. 8 Years Experience in Programming.
2. Solid knowledge of C++.
3. Solid knowledge of DirectX.
4. Solid knowledge of OpenGL.
5. Solid knowledge of Direct3D.
6. 4 Years Industry Experience [Recommended]
7. Ability to create realistic reactions/actions [AI Programmer]
8. Ability to create new features for engine [Back-End Programmer]
9. Ability to create smooth running net play [Network Programmer]

Michael Hughes
mhughes@13gaming.com
13th Floor Gaming
408-460-1043

Ian Jones
12-22-2002, 12:46 PM
...and you'd be assuming ppl like this are what? lounging around on the couch? ppl like that have jobs.

Sorry to be so negative. I just don't think they are realistic expectations.

lildragon
12-22-2002, 01:30 PM
Those are extremely demanding requirements, ESPECIALLY for "free" collab work. As Ian said peeps with those credentials either have killer jobs or looking for their next "paying" position.

Way to demanding for non-pay work bud

salud

jeroentje
12-22-2002, 02:45 PM
Jeez... I thought this discussion was finished Michael.
This is a place to have fun and for students and newbe's to learn from each other. I told you before: you have to pay people if you want to start a bussiness with professional employees.

skello
12-22-2002, 07:03 PM
"characters of twenty to fourty thousand polygons..." sweeet!:buttrock:
Bring on the concept art.!!...(will model sweet ones only)...i've got time to kill

dmonk
12-22-2002, 11:05 PM
I wanna see some concept art!

You won't find anyone withthose qualifications to do this.

Flog
12-23-2002, 06:18 PM
Ouch, those are some mean demands. That much experience. If someone has that much experience and no job, I'd say they probably were not that good enough to get a job or between freelance jobs

I'd just go with whoever I can get, and whoever is good!!! I mean experience doesn't mean anything if you are the worlds best modeller who just does it as a hobby and not professionally.

You might want to put this in the hiring area.

NelsonInomvan
12-23-2002, 11:38 PM
Lol those are extremely high requirements. Sorry but just answer me who is this guy whit 4 years expiriance and he is a freelancer ( i mean the good artists) And secod even if he/she is a freelancer hi will run just because you sad to your company !

I think that there are much 3d/2d artist that are under the requierd level but they have the talent and if you have the brain you will hire them.

I'm green yet :rolleyes: There is very much i must learn from guys like Fellah,Lildragon,wiro and others like them but oneday i'm gonna reach my dreams :cool:

Can you please post some concept arts ?

Tommy Lee
12-24-2002, 12:36 AM
Do it by yaself dood...:rolleyes:

michaelhughes
12-24-2002, 03:31 AM
We will work with individuals who do not have those requirements as well. We take it on a case by case basis. And we have had a fairly high amount of responses to our request. Concept pieces I will post a link to shortly to look over or will post one here. Right now they are far too big to post under the forums. In response to several comments:

- We will take people without those requirements, however, many people we have meet all or part of those requirements.
- We have posted in hiring section. This is why a collaborative forum was created.
- We are growing on a daily basis. We are doing something right.

<michael hughes>
employment@13gaming.com

lildragon
12-24-2002, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by michaelhughes
Concept pieces I will post a link to shortly to look over or will post one here. Right now they are far too big to post under the forums.

I really don't understand this statement :curious: so you're saying that you have no way to compress/resize scanned/digital concept art?

What I don't get is that you found the time to prep your needs, but a simple request for pre-production work makes you dance around the bush...

Just insteresting is all :shrug:

salud

jeroentje
12-24-2002, 07:16 AM
Like I said; we allready had that discussion here (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31597).

Tommy Lee
12-24-2002, 07:47 AM
Give me a contract where is a promise that I get paid when ya sell the game. Then I am in....Seriously!!!!

IŽll wait for the concepts ya show...sooooooooooooon.

jeroentje
12-24-2002, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by michaelhughes
(...)
Programmer [AI/Back-End/Network]
1. 8 Years Experience in Programming.
(...)[/B]
ROFLMAO a lot of people here hadn't even learned how to write that 8 years ago hahahahaha :D

unLevel
12-25-2002, 12:32 AM
michael, even I would like to see some concept work, although at least more than one person seems to have joined your project, by the number of new members that seem to lurk around the forum I provided for you...

Again, I need you to email me at htsmith_7@hotmail.com because I have new, PERTENANT information for you...

Tommy Lee
12-25-2002, 09:02 AM
LOL@Jeroentje...Ya right dude...haha!!!!!:beer:

michaelhughes
12-26-2002, 07:47 PM
- We can compress the pictures just getting around to doing them is the question.

- Tommy Lee send me an email to employment@13gaming.com with your info and I will send you over a contract and nondisclosure.

- And I must say thank you to jeroentje and the other critics. Their persistence has resulted in many people actually becoming attracted to us. Thanks. :buttrock:

<michael hughes>
Patience is a Virtue

Kirt
12-26-2002, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by michaelhughes
- We can compress the pictures just getting around to doing them is the question.

- And I must say thank you to jeroentje and the other critics. Their persistence has resulted in many people actually becoming attracted to us. Thanks. :buttrock:

<michael hughes>
Patience is a Virtue

1. I can compress and resize an image in under 30 seconds, what's the problem with your software?

2. If you have that many people working with you already, why can't you get a one or two of them to commit a day to preparing the concept work to be displayed. Even if they're monkeys or "intuitively challenged" individuals I would expect it shouldn't take more than a day.

:shrug:

unLevel
12-26-2002, 08:18 PM
Mr. Hughes, I would like to see some work done by you and/or some of your colleages.

And as I am hosting your project, I would like some work either done, or at least some positive interest shown in your project...

I regret that I might have to respond so negatively, but you have brought this upon yourself by such posts and replies.

michaelhughes
12-26-2002, 08:48 PM
>>> In regards to >>>>

Mr. Hughes, I would like to see some work done by you and/or some of your colleages.

And as I am hosting your project, I would like some work either done, or at least some positive interest shown in your project...

I regret that I might have to respond so negatively, but you have brought this upon yourself by such posts and replies.

>>> We have work that is being done, but it is distributed internally. In addition if you feel that it would be in the best interests to not host the project feel free to drop the forum. We can add one to our own site at a later date.

>>> And in regards to >>>

1. I can compress and resize an image in under 30 seconds, what's the problem with your software?

2. If you have that many people working with you already, why can't you get a one or two of them to commit a day to preparing the concept work to be displayed. Even if they're monkeys or "intuitively challenged" individuals I would expect it shouldn't take more than a day.

>>> Yeah we could actually have it done in a matter of seconds as well. But see here's the thing. Since concept art is for development of models, environments, and so forth, we are content to distribute the files internally. The files for external consumption, eg. screenshots or at the very least max/maya renders, will be displayed once we make them available, good day.

<michael hughes>

unLevel
12-26-2002, 08:58 PM
Mr. Hughes, I do believe that I will keep your forum on my space for now, I just would like to actually SEE something...especially since it's -being distributed internally-

I do believe that your project is a valid one, I just think that there might be better ways to acquire projecteers, as this is the team works forum, NOT a -submit your application here and we'll think about letting you in- forum.

We'll see how this goes, and as you DID point out, this discussion, albeit it seems to more of a validating arguement to the validity of your project as a whole, as we have no information about the actual PROJECT whatsoever, HAS brought interest to your vague project...

Per-Anders
12-26-2002, 09:44 PM
>>> Yeah we could actually have it done in a matter of seconds as well. But see here's the thing. Since concept art is for development of models, environments, and so forth, we are content to distribute the files internally. The files for external consumption, eg. screenshots or at the very least max/maya renders, will be displayed once we make them available, good day.

How are you hoping to get people to model for you for free without showing concept artwork in the public eye though?

If everything is held internally then it's no more of a collaboration than any production agency hiring in a few artists. The only difference is you're not paying your artists. Collaborating isn't the same as working for someone, not even for free. How is what you're doing a collaboration? Why does it deserve to be held under this category?

This industry is billed by the hour, the minute and even the second. If an artist "works" then it's for money, billed in that way. If you don't have the confidence in your own project to stump up the capital to pay your employees, either by interesting further investors or whatever other means... then why should others show that same confidence? Why should your employees show that confidence?

Better that you would pull a full pitch together and sell the idea of your "company" producing the game, or maybe even selling the game concept on to one of your "interested parties" than you produce the whole game then try to sell it on (which correct me if i'm wrong, appears to be what you desire to do). This is just common sense. If you are worried that you wouldnt be able to pitch to a company that you can pull it off when you have no team, well, you just gloss over that, say you have the means to put together exactly the right team for this job, out of your selection of choice artists who you work with (hell it's what production companies do we make a custom team from the cream of the industry..."). Really learn the art of the pitch and then when you have the backing to be able to pay people to work for you, well, i'mm sure you'll be everyones best buddy on the board if you were to do that :)

Kirt
12-27-2002, 01:53 AM
Well ... what is it? First you would post the images, but there's the question of time to compress and upload. Then, you have the images but they're being witheld from the forum because ... (I still don't get the point here).

Why bother posting here in the first place? I'd hardly call it a co-op if you're unwilling to share with this community what you're doing. I believe what you're looking for is slave labor not someone to co-op a project with you.

:thumbsdow :shame:

Grooveholmes
12-27-2002, 05:56 AM
Well, I tried working with these guys and found it extremely SHADY! Just like how Mister Hughes is so shady about posting images.

So I stopped.

Being unemployed at the moment with massive student loan payments and facing possible eviction I just don't have the time or $$$ to invest all my time and effort into something that isn't likely to pan out. ESPECIALLY when once on the team i could never get a straight answer from anybody regarding questions about the project or much more than a two-worded response from mister Hughes regarding projects. WHen asked about programmers or who these alleged people are that worked for these upscale companies they 'SUDDENLY have to leave and/or change the subject (with a snide laugh'). Let me let all of you in on a little secret that Hughes is keeping. NO ONE on that team with the exception of one or two people HAS ANY TRUE PRODUCTION EXPERIENCE AT ALL WHAT-SO-EVER. Most of them JUST graduated OR haven't even graduated yet.

Michael Hughes will get Zero percent or the work from me that I did for them. Sorry. But Fair is Fair.

So, I would have to strongly advise anybody who is even CONSIDERING joining these clowns to stay VERY far away. They're trying to take advantage. Its people like them that are hurting our industry right now. We all need to have the resolve to band together and not let crooks like this jerk people around. We're all in this together.

Think realistically for a bit people. How many free laborers do you think hughes has recruited across the country? You don't know. There's not anyway for someone to know. He could have assembled a team of 100 people and have gotten ALL THIS FREE WORK all the while promising all these great things in the future for all these hapless people who were just looking for a break. Yet once funding comes you never hear from them again because then he can hire his real team and all the people who slaved trying to make Hughes' dream a reality get ****ed, left out in the cold.

Just honestly think about it guys.

skello
12-27-2002, 06:06 AM
Are those images copyright protected?...if so then whats the fear?
It won't hurt to show even one of your rejects, just to give us a peek of what we are getting into....cmon!:bounce:

michaelhughes
12-27-2002, 11:57 PM
That's why there is a thing called contracts. If you have read the contracts they state that once the funding comes through you will be compensated for all work you performed. In addition the contract states that when funding occurs you will also be offered a full time position, automatically. And its not that we're trying to be shady, its merely that before we have had unfortunate experiences. Concept artwork from the title will be posted. And let me take a couple points that are inaccurate:

1> NO ONE on that team with the exception of one or two people HAS ANY TRUE PRODUCTION EXPERIENCE AT ALL WHAT-SO-EVER. Most of them JUST graduated OR haven't even graduated yet.

> Fact > Actually in the software production category, far more than one or two people have true prodution experience

2> ESPECIALLY when once on the team i could never get a straight answer from anybody regarding questions about the project or much more than a two-worded response from mister Hughes regarding projects. WHen asked about programmers or who these alleged people are that worked for these upscale companies they 'SUDDENLY have to leave and/or change the subject (with a snide laugh').

> Fact > Anyone on the team who has a question can feel free to ask and I answer to the best of the abilities. I always have left my cell phone number available if someone has questions to call me and as several of the team members know I will take as much time as it requires to answer their queries. Suddenly leaving or changing subject I don't know about. And honestly those questions I never recall Joshua clearly stating to me otherwise I would have answered them.

3 > Yet once funding comes you never hear from them again because then he can hire his real team and all the people who slaved trying to make Hughes' dream a reality get ****ed, left out in the cold.

> Fact > As I stated before, that is why I have contracts in place, to protect both parties. Anyone who signed the contracts, their work is protected, they are guaranteed payment once funding comes through, and all work stays their property.

<michael hughes>

Laptop
12-28-2002, 12:40 PM
if you have to give jobs like this tell us what is the paiment. I think here are many great artists with experience of these, who wants work for money on an project like these.(they spend timt and have to know what is the payment when they want live and eat) But if you want do without payment think about that you do something that destroy the cg industry, and we all wants jobs in the future with payment. :thumbsdow

Per-Anders
12-28-2002, 07:52 PM
This thread is bunk. Firstly this isn't collaboration, this is asking for free work. There are no guaranteed returns on any project like this and there is no set returns should any money every come in, any artist getting involved and hoping to make money out of this is in all likelyhood going ot get burnt.

This stuff is like a pyramid scheme, so long as no-one breaks the chain then the chain goe's on. I'm going to be campaigning for the MOD's to ban "something for nothing" work threads (as they do over at highend3d). This is degrading and abusive. You don't get the idea one day that you want to open a hotel, then try to get builders, architects etc to come and do all the work for you for nothing but the promise of "a bite out of the apple when the money comes in".

Sorry everyone but this stuff disgusts me. This certainly does not belong in the collaborations area, working for someone isn't a collaboration, and i dont think it belongs anywhere on this site. It's exactly the same as the "Earn $$$$ from the comfort of your own armchair" threads and emails. It's no way to do business.

Gentle Fury
12-28-2002, 10:16 PM
first off, my view on this particular thread is DELETE IT!!!!!!

This is NOT what this forum was meant for!!!! and it is abuse!

COLLABORATIVE means that people in the community get together and share ideas and start a project together!!! All the work that is done is shown in the forum....that is what makes it a collaberation!!! It is also for the education and entertainment of the community.......when one is started the person that starts it should post the story and the concept art thus far.

then as people jump on (not people with 15 years experience at ILM required.......ANYONE THAT CAN HANDLE IT!!!!) they post what they have worked on!

THIS is looking for slaves.

I was decieved by one of these CG slavers when i just finished school too, and believe me it put a perspective on the industry i could not have gotten on my own....i guess in a way it was a good thing.......as i am a LOT less trusting now and know what to ask for.

The project i got shafted into and out of was a lil project called BFE (in case they are still around and looking to screw any artists in florida) We started working on concept art, had one character drawn out and painted, we were coming up with storys and it was one of those, work on it then when we sell it to comedy central you will make a lot of money and have an immediate spot in the company......i even met and went out with the people that were doing it, they said they were going to buy us all computers to work on it and that would be the compensation until it sold (at least they were creative and TRIED to at least say we would get something.) I got together some of the best artists i knew and we got started.

Then came the day...........they started getting shadier and shadier and noone really trusted what we were hearing. So, i stood up and said, we cant work on this anymore until we see the contracts. They said, of course we should have them soon...........and that was the last we ever heard of them.

I know i am NOT alone in this........im sure that every artist out of school gets the oppurtunity of the lifetime to make an awesome short/game/tv show, then come to realize it was a big scam to try and get free work.

There is a legal version of slavery and people even do it willingly, its called an internship.......but the reason that is an acceptible form of slavery is because A: An internship at ILM or Pixar looks REALLY good on a resume........B: If they need people when your time ends and they think you are good you can get a REAL job!!!!!