Sounding the alarm on video game ratings

[PhilOsirus]

"In one of the animated games, the player scores points as a male figure gets into a car and has sex with a prostitute, then scores more points when he beats and kicks her to get his money back.

In another, the male figure blasts away at various female figures with a gun, while in another game actual video tape of strippers is featured. "

Well they could have verified their claims and mention the games specificly.

In Grand Theft Auto Vice City, you LOOSE money when you get a hooker in your car, but of course you take it back afterward as mentioned. But there is no points system involved, only cash, you know, the stuff we really have in our wallets?

As for the "male figure blasts away at various female figures with a gun" I have no idea which game that is, but the most famous of all videogame babes, Lara Croft is a woman who blasts away at various male figures with guns, various types of guns. Nobody cares about THAT of course.

Parents better watch what their kids do with THEIR money, period.

[Jhonus]

This is a very serious problem in todays society :surprised :rolleyes:

[Gentle Fury]

As for the "male figure blasts away at various female figures with a gun" I have no idea which game that is, but the most famous of all videogame babes, Lara Croft is a woman who blasts away at various male figures with guns, various types of guns. Nobody cares about THAT of course.

thats funny, thats all i could think of when i saw that was Lara. Its so funny how a man with a gun shooting at random is considered violent...........but a woman with a gun shooting randomly is female empowerment...........i LOVE double standards!!!! They make me giggle!

[monotypic]

my video games make me violent... and they're telling me to beat the hell outta people like this....

*sighs* no one ever wants to take the blame themselves... blame the music.. blame the video games... blame the internet/friends/ ANYTHING but the parents!!!!!

[sumpm1]

you got it right Mono.

Video Games, just saw LOTR last night, realized that it was like a giant video game where thosands senselessly die, and the audience doesn't need a reason, it looks cool! OHH, but the video games, how is it diefferent? Whoever puts fault in such nonsense has to look further than the media.

People have real problems, the economy, drugs, alcohol, obesity. If kids are sitting at home in front of the tube, they aren't at Johnny's house smokin weed: good or bad? hmmmmm

Not to say that everyone wants their kids watchin porno video games or learning bad language or any of the other crap that has landed in video games. These games are no different than porno, many people think that it is bad, you can't rent or buy porno videos in my county. But all video stores that have porn also have sign for the room that says 21 and over! So it isn't easy for kids to get. If you want you're kid to have it, go get it, thats you. But this isn't on the menu!

So I say that the rating system is much needed and much welcome, the adult games should be held in regard with the adult films.

[googlo]

thats funny, thats all i could think of when i saw that was Lara. Its so funny how a man with a gun shooting at random is considered violent...........but a woman with a gun shooting randomly is female empowerment...........i LOVE double standards!!!! They make me giggle!

That's because the violence in games is naturally geared towards males. As is the Laura Croft character.

Video Games, just saw LOTR last night, realized that it was like a giant video game where thosands senselessly die, and the audience doesn't need a reason, it looks cool! OHH, but the video games, how is it diefferent? Whoever puts fault in such nonsense has to look further than the media.

Because with video games there is the added element of ACTIVE PARTICIPATION.

Media does influence people despite how much any of us would like to think otherwise.

AND, the "parents should moderate what their kids do and. It's not the game companies, music producer, etc.. responsibility" While this is ideally true, in reality it's IMPOSSIBLE to do completely, unless you become Omish or literally isolate yourself from the rest of the world.

I just think there needs to be a middle ground.

Yes parents should control what their kids are exposed too, but I think companies should also be a bit more responsible in what they produce. It's denial to think that media, of any form, won't influence an individual to some degree, child OR adult.

[daevid]

I think it's sad so many really great games are sold mainly on their gore and sex factor when they would do fine without it. Two examples:

GTA 3 is in my oppinion one of the best games ever made. Driving around liberty city (or vice city) in a really fast car beats the experience in most racing games. The missions are varied and can be solved in a lot of different ways. The prostitutes and killing spree missions add quite little, if any at all, to the game, except adding to it's politically incorrect attitude that it's marketed by.

Soldier of Fortune 2 has great level design and a nice outdoor terrain engine. I honestly don't care about that the enemies can be injured in over 30 gore zones and the unique particle and texturing effects that the game utilizes to realistically portray the guts pouring out of their bodies. Most of the time it just looked goofy and distracting.

It's all about marketing, and games obviously seem to sell more the more gore it contains, unless we (the gamers) start to question if and why the gore needs to be there in the first place.

- David

PS. I hope you understand that I wouldn't want either GTA 3 or SOF to be without violence, just that it's unnecessary to focus on the most PI content trying to push the limits.

[windarr]

You wanna know why everyone blames the video games? I'll tell you why, because all the people with power in our world are old enough to not have experienced video games in their youth. They don't understand what games are and what they offer, and guess what, they don't care to find out. If you ask your parents you'll realize it happened with Rock n Roll, and I bet to an extent it happened with TV, and probably with radio too.

You say that violence is worse now than before? Possibly true, but that's because of all the parents out there. It's difficult for them to look at themselves and realize that they are the ones raising unfit kids. But they are. Most homes nowadays have parents that both go to work leaving their kids at home. And sure the kids may watch violent movies, listent to violent music and play violent games and sure it will influence them. Kids can be influenced by anything, but the most influential thing in their environment is their parents...too bad that most parents don't spend enough time with their kids to properly raise them.

The industry has a ratings system in place, if parents can't stay at home and watch their kids, then they should not buy games that are not appropriate for them. I've never heard of anyone getting pissed off at the Movie Industry when kids sneak in to see films or watch it at home on cable when Mom & Dad aren't looking. Same with music. Now it is true that stores should not sell content to minors that is not appropriate, but if they're not doing that how is that the fault of the game industry? Kids either get it that way or through parents that don't look at the content. Googlo, you say it is impossible for parents to regulate everything about their kids. True, but if they involve themselves with their kids they won't have to, because the kids will grow up with mature non-violent sensibilities. Maybe you think that they can't because both parents have to work? Well if both parents have to work all the time, then maybe they shouldn't have kids. Too many people have kids now that are not ready. Realistically adults should not have kids until they are financially ready as well as mentally prepared.

Everyone wants a scapegoat in this world, and curently games seem to be it. But on the upside, all of us will eventually be in power in this world and then very few people will look at games as being bad for society because we have experienced them ourselves. When we are all older and in power we'll probably find something else to look at as being bad for our society...not sure what, but I'm sure we'll find something.

[AAbel]

Don't those damn politicians have terrorists to catch or something?

[PhilOsirus]

That's why they are acting so fast right now. Gamers are aging, and games are spreading to an older audience, which means most of their arguments won't make half the sense it does now in a few years from now.

Games' content should not be changed, but instead it should be the same as with movies. If it says 18+ on the box, you cannot rent it if you are below 18, etc. That's where the regulation ends.

Let's not forget that all those army games and games with gun makes a lot of liberal go crazy (even tho a whole lot of gamers are either democrat voters or don't care at all about either parties). They think all the guns and soldeirs in our games will make us vote Republican.

You know what that sounds like? When they banned the game "Kung Fu Master" in North Korea because they said it was against communism and pro captialist, yet the story is about some dude trying to save his girlfriend from a bunch of thugs who kidnaped her. But the North Korean commity that was in charge of analyzing the games saw the idea of progressing from one level to the next (that is, from one floor to another), defeating all the thugs and their bosses, save your girlfriend, and get a kiss from her as anti-communist propaganda directly from Japan! Yes that must have been what went through the minds of the one or two programmers behind the game! Insane.

[red_oddity]

Not this stupid debate AGAIN!.

You know, i'm starting to get pretty friggin' tired of these so called politicians wasting tax money on something a futile as this.

Instead of trying to find a solution we always go pointing fingers at someone.
When will people just take some f-ing responsibility for their actions for once in their misserable de-railed desocialised lifes.

Yes the media has influence, but if you're gonna ban this (games), you should ban commercials as well, as they are clearly geared toward mind f-ing the public in order to sell more of their useless crap people don't really need.

Games as BMX XXX? WTF, have they never seen any of the thousands of hentai/sex games you can just download?
Oh, and now it's GTA:VC again, i played it and it isn't any different from GTA 3,2 and 1 (in sense of amount of violence).
And what about Mafia, or UT/UT2K3 or the Quake series, what about MGS, Splinter Cell or the entire Rainbow Six series?

I find this all so friggin laughable (and these guys run your country...tsk tsk tsk, shame on you people, you actually voted for these yokels?)
In the same time they still sell guns at supermarkets and the porn industry is booming and children are dying in countries people didn't hear of don't know where the hell in the world it is because your government put up trade sanctions so not even something as simple as penicilens can be imported, because, 'well, what if they make a chemical bomb out of it'.

Weird friggin' world we live in.

Anyway, i said most i had to say inthe stupid Hitman 2 thread

[googlo]

You know what that sounds like? When they banned the game "Kung Fu Master" in North Korea because they said it was against communism and pro captialist, yet the story is about some dude trying to save his girlfriend from a bunch of thugs who kidnaped her. But the North Korean commity that was in charge of analyzing the games saw the idea of progressing from one level to the next (that is, from one floor to another), defeating all the thugs and their bosses, save your girlfriend, and get a kiss from her as anti-communist propaganda directly from Japan! Yes that must have been what went through the minds of the one or two programmers behind the game! Insane.


That actually isn't insane. The concept of an INDIVIDUAL forging their own future apart from everyone else is a bit more of a capitolistic idea over communism that people who ARE more communistic or even socialistic would see and react to in the game.

American culture and all that ti's produced is much more directly related to the concept of individuality that people who live in that kind of freedom take for granted and don't really see, that people outside of that do.

it's like how many asian cultures percieve things differently than many westerners because of how their culture has influenced their brain and pscyhological development.

For instance. Many cultures in asia embrace the idea of viewing the family before the self when considering decisions etc, whereas in most western cultures, the individual comes first and that pans out in how people reason and ultimate see things and really how they think! Studies have shown this to be true.

Even cultures in africa have a unique sense of awareness different than that of western or asian cultures due to their environment.

I had a class at the univesrity about sociological evolution and it covered all kinds of fascinating aspects of this. Like how cultures influence not only how peole live, but even affect how they think, rationalize, how the brain even structures itself physicallly.

But back to the point I was getting at. I can totally see why the N.Koreans could get that kind of interpretation and influence out of the game.

A film called "high noon' was deemed communistic propaganda in the mid-1900's in the United States because the story was about a sheriff, a secular man who was going to marry a pious protestant or Quaker (I forget) woman. And in the process leave town, but before he could he found out that a criminal he put away years before was released from prison and was coming back to town to get him. He tried to get townsfolk to help him out but no one would. So in the end, the Quaker women goes against her religion and shoots one of the bad guys, marries a secular guy. And at the very end, after the townspepole and even the religious people wouldn't help him, he stops the bad guys alone despite their cowardly refusal to help and looks at them all with disdain and throws his bronze town's sheriff badge onto the street into the dirt.

Many people thought this film was putting a finger to the 'old american ways' of individuals standing together to overcome evils, uphold wholesome values, and stand together as a pioneering people against all odds.. The very heroic ideal that many people find in one of the basic principals of this country.

So it really is a matter of perspective and where pepole are coming from.

Of course I saw this movie as a kid and didn't think any of that. I just thought the sheriff was rightfully disgusted with the townspeople and just left with his new wife. But in a time when Amercian ideals were being threatened by war involving communistic countries, people were very sensitive about it what things meant or could mean.

The same is true with the N.Koreans in this example. And to a degree what they saw in that game is true, from their perspective.

[PhilOsirus]

I don't think it is at all simillar.

What you are talking about happened decades ago. Kung Fu Master came out in what, 1984? It has one music that consists of a looping beat every 15 seconds or so, enemies tha attack you in the same way from Level 1 to the last, and something like 5 levels. You can kick, or punch. End of the story. To see capitalist propaganda in this IS insane and just gives more ammunitions to those who don't like their system.

We ARE individuals and ARE responsible for our actions. Maybe if all individuals realized that we wouldn't be in the mess we are now, and videogames among other medias would not be hit on the head with a hammer while weird deviant porn and real crime is rampant.

On a side note, it's nice to see that here the media had no problem at all with make a special news report on a LAN-Party where hundreds of people were playing First Person Shooters and left aside the "horror" of seeing young people play such games and realize they were just a bunch of college kids having fun togheter, the whole thing being backed up by a few college teachers asking their students studying in networking to get involved as a learning lesson in how to maintain the network for the players.

In the end, all those kids were bright kids having fun, and all that violence wasn't any more violent than playing paint-all with your buddies. It was almost not even the main course, just what connected everyone to having fun.

[Jhonus]

Originally posted by googlo
That actually isn't insane. The concept of an INDIVIDUAL forging their own future apart from everyone else is a bit more of a capitolistic idea over communism that people who ARE more communistic or even socialistic would see and react to in the game.

American culture and all that ti's produced is much more directly related to the concept of individuality that people who live in that kind of freedom take for granted and don't really see, that people outside of that do.


Amazing, I would never have thought a computer game made for entertainment in 1984 with block graphics, limited gameplay and even more limited storyline could be construed as pro capatilist and anti-communist. I know your just trying to look at things from someone else's perspective but it still doesnt make it the slightest bit logical.

Maybe if the kung-fu master consulted his family before undertaking his mission it would be suddenly become more culturally acceptable?

I believe this to be a lame duck argument and as Phil said, it is similar to modern day in that meaning is placed where there is none.

There is a line between fiction and reality that people freely move between when discussing games and real life. It hinges on the belief that time spent gaming distorts or changes a human in negative ways and/or gaming is a representation of life and is considered so when playing and, more importantly, after playing.

[Valkyrien]

I think you have to have some serious mental problems already if you can say "I killed that guy because i wanted to act out a scene from a videogame/movie." get a grip, people!

i mean, personally, i want to kill certain people for the sake of them not being around to piss me off anymore, not because the lobby scene from The Matrix looked like something I wanted to pull off ;)

[ilasolomon]

I know that some young people with low IQ jumpd from high because they thought they could fly like superman, & you know they couldn't!
It's low IQ + Mental Illness + Stupidity matter instead of the video games power.

[the_real_cabal]

in times we say 'war is good ' everybody should shut up ........ computergames aren't real ...

but look at the daily news - war , criminal activities all around the clock ...

[noisewar]

Actually video games DO seriously affect our psyche and CAN damage our children.

You see, the increasing violence and sexual content in our games leads to the belief that such sins are ok to explore. In exploring them, we satisfy a forbidden part of needs for expressing anger, sadness, disgust, and prejudice.

What we need are wholesome games that teach family values. Imagine a future where video games, the most influential and brainwashing medium of our times, can be utilized in schools and at home to instill moral values. Infants will be potty-trained by the arcade. Children will learn to share through Teletubbies Sunshine. Teenagers learn sex education through squeaky clean channels of Serious Sam the Safe Sex Man. And even adults will learn to appreciate religious mores by politely asking zombies to sit back down in Resident Goodness Zero: Code Jesus.

In short, removing violence and sex from videogames will let us evolve into a utopia of eunuchs worthy of the 700 Club. Scientologists unite! Throw the shackles of creativity down, and cast them from your perverted minds! Let the implacable purity of the government design the games that, despite each parent's undying dedication and vigilance over their children's ethics, corrupts our mindless, manipulatable future generation!

If we can not teach them to think for themselves, then we'll teach them to think like us.

</end sarcasm>

[urgaffel]

Sen. Lieberman is making a career out of crying wolf. It's not the first time and it won't be the last.

Let's just hope they don't go the way of the greek and the south american country whos name I've forgotten that banned all kinds of gaming. (Yes, they revoked it a week or so later but still)

(Wasn't it Liebermans car Vin Diesel crashed in xXx?)

[Valkyrien]

Originally posted by noisewar
Actually video games DO seriously affect our psyche and CAN damage our children.

You see, the increasing violence and sexual content in our games leads to the belief that such sins are ok to explore. In exploring them, we satisfy a forbidden part of needs for expressing anger, sadness, disgust, and prejudice.

What we need are wholesome games that teach family values. Imagine a future where video games, the most influential and brainwashing medium of our times, can be utilized in schools and at home to instill moral values. Infants will be potty-trained by the arcade. Children will learn to share through Teletubbies Sunshine. Teenagers learn sex education through squeaky clean channels of Serious Sam the Safe Sex Man. And even adults will learn to appreciate religious mores by politely asking zombies to sit back down in Resident Goodness Zero: Code Jesus.

In short, removing violence and sex from videogames will let us evolve into a utopia of eunuchs worthy of the 700 Club. Scientologists unite! Throw the shackles of creativity down, and cast them from your perverted minds! Let the implacable purity of the government design the games that, despite each parent's undying dedication and vigilance over their children's ethics, corrupts our mindless, manipulatable future generation!

If we can not teach them to think for themselves, then we'll teach them to think like us.

</end sarcasm>

whew, glad I picked up on the sarcasm when i did, or else I would've had to start yelling without finishing reading the post;) right on!!:beer:

[Luke Werhli]

I think many games are so immersive today that kids get confused and start to make them part of their lives.

And also, since violence is so common in every media, we start thinking it´s a normal thing.

And videogames influence the way players live. You can se for example, that Gran Turismo created an demand for cars in the series in Japan. And if the positive is true, eighter is the opposite.

If it doenst influence you, how can you buy something that doenst influence you?

And If you don´t have an good family, or a religion, or something to guide you, you can be influenced badly.

We live in the culture of destruction, sex, etc, because this is primal, and this is what sells.

That already happened in the film industry and is happening in the game industry since gamers have matured.

[Jhonus]

Originally posted by Luke Werhli
I think many games are so immersive today that kids get confused and start to make them part of their lives.

And also, since violence is so common in every media, we start thinking it´s a normal thing.


Tell me about it.... i was playing Civilisation 3 the other day and after playing I started trying to take over the world.... I tried to build a temple in my garden so that my cultural influence would expand and my neighbours would come under my control.

Then I jumped in a pair of tights, built a bow and some arrows and started running around the neighbour hood trying to find looters and muggers to attack... sometimes you can find gold pieces on their bodies. Only problem is the corner store wasn't selling any armour with protection bonuses.

But then I signed up at my local Seventh Day Adventist church and got a starter pack, now my life is back to normal and I am no longer influenced by the big bad computer and TV.

Now when I walk outside my front door and see all the primal sex and destruction I can stand strong and resist the influence.

[noisewar]

I agree with Krugar.

When I was playing Warcrat it made me think I was an orc. But I'm not an orc! I'm not even green!

Imagine my surprise when I came home and said "Honey, I'm an orc berzerker now, so clean the blood of my axe, wench!" and she just told me to wash the dishes!

It's dangerous how real games are! Good thing I haven't played a game that made me think I was my own grandfather... then I'd be really confused.

[bentllama]

Killing Monsters: Why Children Need Fantasy, Super Heroes, and Make-Believe Violence

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0465036953/qid%3D1014921973/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F0%5F1/103-1396098-0663865

Violent entertainment is good for kids, and demonizing it can do great harm to their emotional development, claims Jones (Honey, I'm Home!) in this provocative and groundbreaking work. Drawing on his experience as a parent and as a creator of children's cartoons, as well as interviews with dozens of psychologists and educators, Jones forcefully argues that violent video games, movies, music and comics provide a safe fantasy world within which children learn to become familiar with and control the frightening emotions of anger, violence and sexuality. He debunks studies linking violent media with violence in society and argues that children clearly understand the difference between pretend and reality. Providing realistic and helpful advice, Jones says parents need to learn to differentiate between what violent games mean to children and what they mean to adults, and to stop imposing their understanding of them on children. Adults may be horrified at the literal meaning of a video game, but children are far more interested in its emotional meaning; "through identifying with a fantasy figure who displays intense sexuality, wields destructive power, and exudes heroism, kids can help themselves feel more control over these forces." Jones speaks to adult fears of the power of popular culture and cautions that "entertainment has its greatest influence when it's speaking to something that isn't otherwise being addressed in a child's life." To lessen the impact, adults should "model nonaggression, empathy, respect, a clear distinction between fantasy and reality, and the integration of aggression and other scary feelings."

[Go read some of Desmond Morris' work as well]

[jfalconer]

I think the game they refered to about running around shooting women was Duke Nukem, Planet of the Babes. So it does exist, and of course, they choose the worst of the medium to represent the whole.

No one in the media ever stops to ask why movies or novels are never judged by their worst offenders. What if movies were all judged by Dawn of the Dead, or Chainsaw Massacre? What if novels were judged by books by Stephen King? I mean... WTF??!

How about we start judging the media by The National Enquirer. I mean, they report on aliens and mermaid babies. I guess that means all news media is irrelevant bullshit! f'n freaks.

[Luke Werhli]

Krugar

Happy New Year for you.

I hope a better year for you.

Cheers.

[ambient-whisper]

You say that violence is worse now than before?

nah theres always been violence. its always been bad.
i dont remember the last time ive seen a hanging...or a person stoned to death...or the last witch hunt....crusifiction...list goes on.

and people say we are desensitized by games? what do people expect with such large populations?

[TorbjornO]

It's just an influential factor that is going to be present in life whether you like it or not. I am personally a believer in that, like absolutely everything else in life, media exposure affects us.

There is no one set way for how it affects us though. Every person reacts differently to it. Some use it as a means of venting frustrations in life, thereby relieving stress and anger. Others use it to fuel their anger, let their underlying wishes of wanting to hurt someone come out and in a way that probably ends up feeding those desires. For some this might lead to that they eventually want to experience the real thing. For others it will just remain a fantasy.

With or without media, there are always going to be a factor in each person's life that MAY influence them destructively. In my opinion it's useless to to try to fight these factors. You gotta do what you can to be the person you feel that people should be, hold up the values that you feel should be held up by people. If your perception is that the people in this world suck, then you're weak if you give in to it. Be what you believe should be, that's the only way things will ever matter.

Like it or not, we live in a world where there's 4 billion different wishes and views of the world. What is your perception of games might be different for others. In my youth I probably would of ended up a lot more violent if there wasn't for videogames. It can really go both ways.

The only power you have is how you influence the people around you. I believe in freedom with choice. Everyone only has the right to cause direct harm to themselves. Everything else should be allowed as long as those who doesn't want to experience, has the choice. With children, my opinion is that though scary as it is, it should be up to the parents. If those are messed up then I hope there are others around them that help them out, regardless of what role videogames play in their life.

From my perspective, unfortunately, in every day life it's all about "me". It's sad that courageous, good people only seem to come out in the spotlight when there's a great disaster. And this has everything to do with this issue, because if people would look after each other better this whole videogame issue would be moot.

Toby

[FloydBishop]

This whole thread reminds me of the guy who tried to sue McDonalds because he didn't know that eating fatty burgers would make his ass fat.

It's always someone else's fault for some reason.

Parents who do a crappy job raising their kids are trying to pass the buck.

It's a shame.

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