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Mikkel Jans
12-20-2002, 02:32 PM
Whats the different between Mental Ray and Brazil?

ThirdEye
12-20-2002, 05:02 PM
What's the difference between Ferrari and Porsche?

Mikkel Jans
12-20-2002, 06:52 PM
Okey, so there isen't a big different between the 2?
I have just heard alot saying that Brazil should be alot faster and better..
Maybe it's just becouse i talked to Max Users :)

ThirdEye
12-20-2002, 10:13 PM
Mental Ray is a lot faster than Brazil (I'm not talking about the Mental Ray 2.1 for Max, I'm talking about Mental Ray 3.x, the XSI one)

drewbie
12-21-2002, 12:04 AM
I think it would be hard to compare, since MR3 isn't available for MAX, and Brazil isn't available for XSI. Both are fast, but you're not really going to get a great comparison. The best users of each renderer are going to be able to squeeze every last bit out of the renderer, so in the end it's all down to how familiar you can become with the software, and what suits your needs. Running XSI? Problem solved--you have MR3. Running MAX? Maybe not solved, but you narrow down your choices of rendering solutions.

Mauritius
12-21-2002, 12:57 AM
MentalRay is a high-end renderer. Its most important feature is true programmable shading. Furthermore, it knows high-level primitives. Until all these lastRender and Rio De Janero renderers have at least the former feature, you can't really compare them.

Brazil is a very nice renderer nevetheless. I have no doubt that in a few years it may well play in the same league as e.g. MentalRay.

.mm

Refracted
12-21-2002, 06:16 AM
brazil does have programmable shaders :) .. It's SL is rather in it's infancy.. but it's there. Not as accessible as say.. renderman's SL (which you can easily compile into a shader), but the plan is to make it accessible (to my knowledge).. we'll see what happens in the future..

Mauritius
12-21-2002, 02:56 PM
Hmm, I cant' find this on Brazil's feature list.
Additionally, Brazil lacks displacement mapping -- at least in a way that is comparable to what RMan renderers offer. Here, all our high-res models are detailed using procedural and texture-based displacement shaders. Without this feature, our entire pipeline would be void. We had to go back using polygons as in the early 90's, create high-res geometry and use proxies for animation that get swapped somewhere before the scene reaches the renderer.

What many people often forget is that in RMan, lights are also shaders and w/o this features programmable shading is almost useless; given the visual demands of today's productions.

I remember a private correspondence with one of the Brazil guys, "Captain Video", a year or so back though, where he said it that fully programmable shading (which would include lights and all other sorts of shaders) was on their todo list for an unscheduled future release.

.mm

mlykke
12-22-2002, 02:13 AM
http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/b_technology.php3

Orchid - scripting / shading language
All of Brazil will be driven by the scripting language Orchid. Orchid will provide full RenderMan compliant shader support, plus extended Brazil specific shading features. Orchid will also drive Tiki, Echo, Banshee or any of the system components, so an entire new rendering system could theoretically be scripted.

So some info is on the site :)

Khepri
12-23-2002, 09:18 AM
hi there!

Mauritius: Additionally, Brazil lacks displacement mapping -- at least in a way that is comparable to what RMan renderers offer.


this is a quote from the splutterfish public webboard:

Scott Kirvan:
"Displacements are working and are in the internal builds (QA hasn't even gotten to play yet) :) These are true displacements - not modified heightfields or anything like that - and are showing off some really cool techniques that I haven't seen in anything other than prman. "

link to thread (http://forums.splutterfish.com/forum/public/cgi-bin/FVwMsgThr.cgi?fid=public&tid=General_Discussion/Brazil&mid=280)


cheers

P.S. I agree with you that there are major feature-differences between the high-end rendering systems, but, they are all very different(scanline/raytracer wise) in the way they work.

derelict
12-23-2002, 09:41 AM
hahahahaha!

brazil is in the same league with mental? Hahahahahahaha!

Er sorry bout that. Just had too much tea.

Georgy
01-01-2003, 10:39 PM
Sorry, that i'm not about theme.
But, Derelict who is it ?- on your picture(photo under nick)?
Jast very nice girl, who is she?

Maya4fun
01-02-2003, 04:16 PM
hi, mental ray Vs brazil...mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
well, i have testing same scene with mental ray 1.5 and maya4.5
and resulting are AWESOME...... Brazil are really great powerfull about the light but so long for production....result : mentalRay 40% speedup with a same scene....Voilą
PS : If U render u're scene with MAX i propose for you VRay that's great rendering speed CU man

Mauritius
01-02-2003, 05:57 PM
This 'Orchid' and displacement stuff indeed does sound very nice.
Experience as a long-time beta tester of a few high-end RMan compliant renderers, however, tells me that until a feature existent in some internal build enters a release build often many months or even years pass by.

But I know that many developers of the Brazil rendering system are lurking on the 'highend3d rendering theory mailing list'. They should be quite aware of the features needed to play in the same league as e.g. MRay ... ;)

.mm

Khepri
01-03-2003, 03:03 PM
Mauritius: I do believe they are yes ;)


Maya4fun: you used the public version, so no comparison can be made really.:shame:

I used MR(8cpu's distributed) and Brazil(the pre-release version at that time)on the same dual setup in the max enviroment and I can only say that brazil won every arealight/ raytracing/ GI/ quality test we put it through.

so I dunno... :surprised


the thing is that alot of people think/are under the impression that Brazil public version is the same as Brazil 1.xx which is totally not the case.

and if you look at the (small selection of companies) online clientlist (http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/sf_gen_page.php3?page=ClientList) at splutterfish.com

you might start to think why those companies bought Brazil if it was "slower than the rest"


but I better stop this battle against "not fair to judge something by its beta stadium/ripped from alot of features version" opinions.


:D

cheers and happy newyear!

Maya4fun
01-03-2003, 04:21 PM
Judicious, Mr Khepli, in any event I think that for the moment it is too early to come to a conclusion about such or such engine. And then, each engine with these qualities and these weaknesses, ESSENCE it is that one can ALL "burst oneself" like animals with the faires to evolve/move in the good direction. Voilą....:beer:
-------> soz for my baaaaaad "french" english.........
And just peace ;)

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