College Good Idea Or Bad?

[ThirdEye]

I think Kaiskai for example made the right choice, he chose to study classical animation instead of learning packages such as Maya, a classical background is really important. If you wanna get into 3D learn to draw first of all ;)

[AdamT]

Based upon the want ads I see and stuff I read, if you plan on working in film or on TV shows it would be a good idea. But, it may be that a classical art or 2d animation background is as valuable as a 3D-specific curriculum. As far as 3D schools, I know that the Ringling School in Florida is supposed to be one of the best.

[CosmicBear]

yeah, i agree with ThirdEye_01 100%!
college is important, no question about it! i'm about to graduate from college and even though, i was really annoyed with alot of my classes and professors i'm still glad i stayed in. you will never get another chance to develop your own skills and creativity again in such an enviroment. it is up to you to make the best out of it.

where are you from, beechdbum? if you're from the US, i would suggest that you get some informations about CalArts (California Institute Of The Arts) near Los Angeles or the Academy Of The Arts-College in San Fransisco. Both schools offer fantastic opportunities! I took a couple of animation-classes at CalArts a couple of years ago and still wish, i would have had the opportunity to attempt the entire four years there...

and another fact, ThirdEye is right about - it's not the software, that makes the art - it's the artist. learn the traditional way of drawing and animation - it's the best benefit you can get for your 3D work. don't just draw when in art-class! draw ALL the time! ;)

[Beechdbum]

well im from san fransico and so ive obviously looked at those programs and im serioursly looking at ringling right now, the problem with the san fran is id like to live more then 10 min away from my parents and i also am kinda looking for a school that has more of a college feel as opposed to the san fran which doesnt have a real campus, as for cal arts right now im looking for more of a software kind of school, so i can figure out how i can get all of my ideas out they way i want them too, if you have any suggestions for foreign schools i would love to hear them since i am open to thos also.

[AdamT]

Yep, definitely get away from home if you can. In addition to being good for the career and creative developement--college is the most fun you'll probably ever have. At least it was for me.

[ThirdEye]

I'm at university, I live 500 km away from home, and I'm very happy about my student life, even with a bit of homesickness. Getting away from home makes you a more responsable person, no doubt about it, and yes it's often really funny. It's been the right choice I think... And about my study I chose to study architecture at university (5 years minimum), here in Italy we don't have really many possibilities with 3D, I wanted to get a stable position, it's easier to have a job being an architect than an animator here. When I will become an architect I'll consider moving to other countries, I love 3D and I'm trying improving mine ;)

[Beechdbum]

heres a question for you do you think your archetecture has helped your 3d any? you know maybe with design plans and such

[ThirdEye]

I learned to draw that is a really important think in my opinion ;)

[LucentDreams]

Being a recent program graduate, trained in classical animation, and now teaching 3D using XL 7 and a little mirai/nendo, I'll share what I have discovered.

Classical is very useful and will definitely make YOU a better artist than if you only study 3D. The reason I emphasize YOU is because you can be an outstanding 3D artist with out classical trainging, it is possible and everytime a discussion on classical versus non classical comes up there are always one or two examples on non classicaly trained (or experienced) artists who do amazing stuff. However, if those few outstanding guys took some classical traininng I guarantee that if their art doesn't at least improve, their efficiency will. Its far easier to model something from your head if you draw it on paper first. When working on a production and the director asks what a rotating pan of a room might look like, a classically trained animator or layout artist can draw a simple 360 ppan of a room in about 15 minutes with a few objects like a table andsome chairs or whatever, and it would take any 3D artist more time to open the program, model a simple room with tables and chairs and such put in a camera and rotate it, not too mention they would have to make sure they had a laptop with them if it was in a conference room. I think thats a good scenario on how it affects efficiency.

Whether you go into 2D or 3D, school is very important, but I would recommendit is a school that does not merely a final project ut actually a final FILM project. The reason for this is it gives you guidance and the time and equipment (not too mention inspiration in the mere fact of how much you paid to go to the school) toproduce yourown short film. Many artists never get that chance, especially artists who get a job in the industry right a way. Talking with all my animatin teachers, al of them have a short film on the backburner, but they simply can't find the time to do the work cause they are too busy earning paycheques doing animation at the local studios and teaching. Most animators have a shortfilm on their minds, but rarely do they ever find themselves financially secure enough to not only live unemployed long enough to do a film but also fund the film, as well as without a set deadline like you have in a studio and school, you find there is a lack of focus, things die off quickly.

So definitely go to school, my recomendation would be a school that provides both classical and 3D animation training, sometimes in the same course or as two seperate programs (they usually offer discounts if you attend another course upon graduating from one of their programs.) and also that the school offers artistic training, some schools (especially smaller schools or shorter programs) tend offer only techical training, so basically here is how to use a computer and maya, but they won't teach you a thing about composition, colour theory, or most importanly good animation.

As for particular schools I am building up a school reference slowly (you should see a thread in one of the general sections of CGtalk once I get settled into my new place) so currently won't recommend too much. My best advice is too think of what studio you want to work and and check their site, many of the larger studios offer school recommendation pages where they list schools that many of their employees are from and/or where many good portfolio's they have seen come from.

VFS, Sheridan, Cal Arts, Savahna (sp?) are four very good ones that come to mind off the top of my head.

One note about VFS from my experience is not to take their 3D program (one year offering a little classical animation but too much info not enough worktime due to its short length) but rather take the Classical/maya combo program which is about the same price, 18 months in length, one year classical, 6 months maya and offers tonnes of life drawing, colour theory, animation history, Perspective, Composition, Character design, Background design, and animation, allow you to produce a classical film, then you leanr flash and produce a 30 second flash film, and then you learn maya and do a short maya film. The biggest advantage of this program is while it is very short and the school is located in a bad community, you graduate with 3 short films all in different mediums, who wouldn't hire you as long as your films are decent.


Sheridan and Cal Arts have the best reputations to date that I know of, there many other great schools, Check the pixar, pdi, lost boys, and the Mill sites, I believe they all have school recommendations

[Beechdbum]

Wow that was a long message, but a very good one, very usefull if i could get any ones oppoin on the course at ringling, i would really appreciate it heres a link to the course cirruclum if your intersted http://www.rsad.edu/academics/ca/curriculum.shtml It looks like you dont even touch 3d animation till your second year, also calarts program, what the amount of time spent 3d vs traditinol, if you know or better yet went to either of these places please respons

[just_p]

Just a thought.

Depending on what you're aiming to do it might be worth looking into courses that look at story writing & scripting too.

Even if you can draw being able to write a good story is important too. (o:

Also, for all that classical trainging vs non-classical.
Most good non-classically trained artists have trained themselves anyway. Just because they didnt study drawing in a college doesn't mean they just sit down at a comp without ideas sketches or plans.

- Kevin

[celestine_b]

Someone mentioned the Academy of Art College in SF.

Speaking as someone whose wife taught there (in the ad program), and who knows alumni, and who's seen the work they post on the walls there, there are few greater ripoffs in education. It's extremely expensive for something that leaves its graduates behind grads from other schools. The primary idea seems to be to attract as many wealthy foreign students with the lure of studying in a beautiful city, but in fact few people out of the ad program at least were even minimally able to get a job. It's a cynical plan. Graduates' portfolios were nearly all second-rate, especially compared to Art Center. I was especially appalled at the retread hacks they had teaching in the program, despite the wealth of talent in the city (my wife excepted, and her paycheck was always late). All that imported SF working talent stayed away as if that school was a bad party.

Of course I'm talking about a different program, but the alumni of different programs at AA said the situation was the same across the board. The stink of that school attached itself to every person who came out of there and announced their presence in advance regardless of their own talent, and this was during an economic boom time with unprecedented job openings. Web design, of course, never had a bozo filter, so that's where a lot of them ended up. The lessons that apply are:

(1) Look at what's on the gallery walls at any school you look into. If the work doesn't seem good, yours won't be any better.

(2) The idea that you get out of a school what you put into it is a widely held oversimplification. If you put the same amount of heroic effort into a good school and a bad school, the two bodies of work will still differ by a LOT.

(3) Talk to an instructor first. If they're behind the times, flee!

(4) It's about the career, so what kind of alumni are out there and willing to provide internships?

Hate to slam, but I was absolutely appalled by that place, especially for what they charged.
CB

[Beechdbum]

i'd have to agree with you, they only post the best pics they have had in there portfolio which is not the norm by far

[LucentDreams]

Well thats the way it is at ecery single school, in the last graduating 3D class I saw only two that impressed me at all out of 30, and only one will likely go on, inmy class there are two or three of us that will likely go on, not just out of interest but skill too. Fact is so many people are studying 3D and classical animation now that most don't have any idea what is involved.

All schoools only show their best, its simple marketing, why show how bad of a film can be produced at your school when you can show off your good stuff. Microsoft doesn't advertise how often their OS crashes, they show the stuff that makes them look good.

I have seen 2 very good 3D films produced at Academy of Art College in SF, one prime example is Bert which was highlighted here at CGtalk, and also on animation nation, the film is as good as for the birds in many aspects, so really product is up to the student not the school, my film isn't simply because of what I learned from the school but what I contributed to it, The school teaches you how to do it, hopefully it covers artistic concepts as well, but really in the end ideas and personal talent are needed as well.

Don't forget ther are three kinds of artists, Those with Talent and no training, those with training and no talent, and those with both, I highly doubt too many at PDI and Pixar are anything but the latter.

You have to be willing to put in the time and effort, watch animation study animation read as many books as possible. I speant 14 hours at school each day including weekends, and then another 3 or 4 at home (though doing C4D and forums as well in that time at home) Most students left the school at 4 O'clock once class was over. You wonder why their films weren't very good.

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