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xeav
03-21-2006, 05:23 PM
FinalFantasy XII Intro download

[download] (http://ruliwebfile.dreamwiz.com/mpeg3/square_enix/ruliweb_ff12_prg.wmv)

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/6359/gr8qg.jpg

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/1103/artashe23we.jpg

slaughters
03-21-2006, 05:43 PM
Is it me - or are the costumes just getting weirder? :)

umfridus
03-21-2006, 05:49 PM
Is it me - or are the costumes just getting weirder? :)
So are the names. :D

Clanger
03-21-2006, 06:00 PM
Well that was certainly impressive but as I'm not familiar with the Final Fantasy Universe I have some questions, apologies if they're stupid:

1. Why does the main girl look like Buffy
2. Why are they riding Giant Chickens
3. Why are they fighting with swords/bow and arrows when they obviously have advanced technology
4. What's with that spinning top propulsion system

P_T
03-21-2006, 06:03 PM
Actually, the way the katakana's read is more like A-Che not "ache" as in pain.

lol @ clanger's questions. It's not that they're stupid, it's just weird, didn't think anyone's THAT ignorant about FF. The giant chicken or "chocobo" is one of the iconic creature from FF universe.

tozz
03-21-2006, 06:18 PM
SE does it again, mind blowing. As if the wait for the game wasn't hard enough before :D

PaulAdams
03-21-2006, 06:18 PM
Nice intro, usual FF type of affair. It didn't immediately grab me like some other intros, but man I love their rendering and overall style. It's all so visually rich and the characters totally have the FF stamp on them... allot of the men have quite feminine looks.

Hope the game is good, seems like forever since the last FF (XI doesn't count ;)).

slaughters
03-21-2006, 06:29 PM
2. Why are they riding Giant Chickens
Funniest thing I've read today. :thumbsup:

albedo4800hp
03-21-2006, 06:35 PM
Is it me or does the FF franchise get worse and worse with every new installment. And I thought we already saw the bottom with X-2. Jare, jare

My Fault
03-21-2006, 07:02 PM
Mocapalicious! :)

Wow, that was actually realllly boring. Normally I enjoy these but between the hideously bad camera work during the fight scenes and the fact that no character seems to be able to elicit even the most basic emotion, I wouldn't tell anyone to waste their time watching it. Shame as a lot of it was really well rendered and obviously a lot of hard work went in to it.

thomaspecht
03-21-2006, 08:14 PM
the lack of expression seems to be a cultural thing if i recall right from previous discussions. doesn't make it look more appealing to me, too. technically it's all very nice, but i totally dislike the star wars influences in the visuals and music. reminds me of an ugly flick about clone wars ;) brrrrrr...

but bring on the game. gameplay videos are more interesting than an intro anyway. so far it seems they have really changed the battle system. not yet sure about it, i enjoyed FFX's turn based combat very much and disliked FFX-2's hectic realtime fights.
any release date for the PAL version yet?

Frank Lake
03-21-2006, 08:41 PM
Is it me or does the FF franchise get worse and worse with every new installment. And I thought we already saw the bottom with X-2. Jare, jare
I don't believe that it's just the FF franchise though. Ever since Enix & Square came together ALL of their games have become 'questionable'. When you can't easly relate to a character then the design is "iffy" at best. Frankly I think SquarEnix is trying far too hard to appeal to the female market and is completely missing the point and losing thier audience because of it.

Another thing that has begun to bug me is their environmental and 'style' city/building designs. It's feel like it's devolved into the same coastly broque style for every game. That's fine when it's once in awhile, but not every stinking game!! Yeah I know it's style is bias, because of the national mind bend of blue water/beach = paradise, but gods enough with the freaking coastal towns, vast crystalline blue ocean and clear blue sky! It makes it kinda emotionally pointless when winning the game doesn't "grab you" with awe like it did 5 minutes into the game 50 hours before. Damn you Star Ocean 3!!

RockinAkin
03-21-2006, 08:51 PM
I played FF way back on the super nintendo with FF2 - all the way through to FF9.

This intro video intrigues me - looks like they're going back to the FF roots - I just might have to pick up on the series again.

CIM
03-21-2006, 08:53 PM
FinalFantasy XII Intro download

[download] (http://ruliwebfile.dreamwiz.com/mpeg3/square_enix/ruliweb_ff12_prg.wmv)

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/6359/gr8qg.jpg

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/1103/artashe23we.jpg

Is she picking her nose?

-Vormav-
03-21-2006, 09:05 PM
I played FF way back on the super nintendo with FF2 - all the way through to FF9.

This intro video intrigues me - looks like they're going back to the FF roots - I just might have to pick up on the series again.
Hehe. I think people say that every time they come out with a new FF (except for maybe FFX-2...). When FF9 was coming out, Square was "going back to the roots." When FFX was coming out, Square was "going back to the roots."


But that had some pretty nice CG work (although I'd agree with the comments about facial expressions). Must say though that I'm getting just a bit sick of SquareEnix's character design style...

slime
03-21-2006, 09:59 PM
I played FF way back on the super nintendo with FF2 - all the way through to FF9.
Then you would know that the Final Fantasy II released in North America was actually Final Fantasy IV. Also Final Fantasy III in North America was Final Fanasy VI. Therefore you probably only played IV, VI, VII, VIII, IX, which is less than half of the series.
I enjoyed a lot FF X and although at the beginning when I played the demo of FF XII I was a little dissapointed, because they tried to get a "MMORPG" feeling, now after playing the actual game I think it's a masterpiece; extremely well crafted.
About the intro, technically great, although I didn't feel as excited as with the previous titles. I think the inbetween movies are better, though.

RockinAkin
03-21-2006, 10:01 PM
Hehe. I think people say that every time they come out with a new FF (except for maybe FFX-2...). When FF9 was coming out, Square was "going back to the roots." When FFX was coming out, Square was "going back to the roots."
Dunno about other people, but when I saw FF8, I was like "WTF is that?"
I enjoyed FF9, it was a bit closer to the roots experience.
10 and anything else after I never was interested in at all.

RockinAkin
03-21-2006, 10:03 PM
Then you would know that the Final Fantasy II released in North America was actually Final Fantasy IV. Also Final Fantasy III in North America was Final Fanasy VI. Therefore you probably only played IV, VI, VII, VIII, IX, which is less than half of the series.
Yeah, I'm aware of the whole crazy numbering system.
I've played IV, VI, VII, VIII, IX... I think thats enough to say I'm a veteran of the series. :D

tozz
03-21-2006, 11:33 PM
I really like the architecture in the video, the battle was a little too much star wars for me to, but at least they keep it to the basics in the ground combat. It would be great if the 13th installment would go back to the FF7 charcter style, something like the FFVII Tech Demo on PS3, that would be awesome. As for emotions, I find this trend going through everything, from movies to games, it's hip to be cold. However, FFX shared the same "problem" but the characters expressed their emotions through actions and dialogue instead of facial expressions, I found it very rewarding for the player (me) to go that way instead of painting it on the screen. Guess it's a matter of taste, but as long as the story and interaction is good, there's really no need for facial expressions to be overly obvious.

Apoclypse
03-22-2006, 12:50 AM
I was never a fan of the ff8 team. I'm not sure, but I think ff8 and ffx had the same t9am of developers, they the same feel. I'm a fan of the series and was really trying to avoid buying a ps3 just to play the games as I wasn't going to get one otherwise. Anyways I'm so disappointed with the game, after all that hype i was execting something better than ff9 and 7, instead I got ff8 with voices and a different story. Of all the ff's, eight is my least favorite. I haven't even finished ffx and instead i am playing kingdom hearts. Thats never happened to me before, I've played almost all the ff's since IV and the only ff's i can't stand playing are ff8 and 10, otherwise I'm like a fiend I hardly sleep. When ff9 first came, I was still playing ff6 and I promised myself I wouldn't touch ff9 until I beat ff6, luckily I was at the end and I was able to beat it that night and played ff8 all the way till the next day.

DDS
03-22-2006, 01:05 AM
I was never a fan of the ff8 team. I'm not sure, but I think ff8 and ffx had the same t9am of developers, they the same feel. I'm a fan of the series and was really trying to avoid buying a ps3 just to play the games as I wasn't going to get one otherwise. Anyways I'm so disappointed with the game, after all that hype i was execting something better than ff9 and 7, instead I got ff8 with voices and a different story. Of all the ff's, eight is my least favorite. I haven't even finished ffx and instead i am playing kingdom hearts. Thats never happened to me before, I've played almost all the ff's since IV and the only ff's i can't stand playing are ff8 and 10, otherwise I'm like a fiend I hardly sleep. When ff9 first came, I was still playing ff6 and I promised myself I wouldn't touch ff9 until I beat ff6, luckily I was at the end and I was able to beat it that night and played ff8 all the way till the next day.

ok u like 1 game, but are not a fan of the series, there's no problem with it. I actually like any Final Fantasy they put on my face, all of them have a great story, and characters/music captivates me more than anywhere else.

I like this FFXII, ok its not FFVII, but just think what would happen if all of them were like FFVII, instead of complaining for not being clones of FFVII, they would just complain that they don't have imagination.

I played FFXII demo and the change is really big, and I LOVE IT, but if you're looking for a return to the past, at least in gameplay/music, u'll be disappointed.

My 2 cents...

Frank Lake
03-22-2006, 01:12 AM
Then you would know that the Final Fantasy II released in North America was actually Final Fantasy IV. Also Final Fantasy III in North America was Final Fanasy VI. etc
Then you should also realize when he said Super Nintendo he was talking about the english version and not the japanese one, with was the Super Falcom so he was quite techniqually(spl) correct. But that's neither here nor there.

I also liked FFX, but for the more mature story and it's better battle system. Unfortunatly it suffered from FF's run of 3 "romance" titles and it's ending only marginally helped to avoid that. It also badly suffered from the overblown use of island locales. Like the 'evil' of the world only inhabits the most tropic of temperate zones. FF4 & 5(not a happy ending in sight and yet it keeps such a large fanbase) are still the series best with only 7 being the only reasonably descent one in 3D.

-Vormav-
03-22-2006, 01:21 AM
I was never a fan of the ff8 team. I'm not sure, but I think ff8 and ffx had the same t9am of developers, they the same feel. I'm a fan of the series and was really trying to avoid buying a ps3 just to play the games as I wasn't going to get one otherwise. Anyways I'm so disappointed with the game, after all that hype i was execting something better than ff9 and 7, instead I got ff8 with voices and a different story. Of all the ff's, eight is my least favorite. I haven't even finished ffx and instead i am playing kingdom hearts. Thats never happened to me before, I've played almost all the ff's since IV and the only ff's i can't stand playing are ff8 and 10, otherwise I'm like a fiend I hardly sleep. When ff9 first came, I was still playing ff6 and I promised myself I wouldn't touch ff9 until I beat ff6, luckily I was at the end and I was able to beat it that night and played ff8 all the way till the next day.
The team involved is actually the only reason I'm even remotely interested in FF12. In the hands of Yasumi Matsuno (the guy that did Vagrant Story and Final Fantasy Tactics), I think it at least stands a chance. Just as long as they don't get too obsessed with pop appeal. And from what I've seen from SquareEnix lately, I have my doubts on that point... :shrug:

PhilOsirus
03-22-2006, 01:31 AM
Famitsu gave it a 40/40. Less than 10 games have ever had that rating, and one of those was Vagrant Story (same team). Can't wait for this one, looks great. It would be nice to get a FFT on PS3.

slime
03-22-2006, 01:35 AM
he was talking about the english version and not the japanese one, with was the Super Falcom[...]
Super Famicom :rolleyes: [ family computer ]
FF7 is the worst one in my opinion., althought it was extremely successful in United States.

slime
03-22-2006, 01:40 AM
. And from what I've seen from SquareEnix lately, I have my doubts on that point... :shrug:
Front Mission 5, Kingdom Hearts 2 are fantastic games. Also Dragon Quest VIII, although was developed by Level 5.

P_T
03-22-2006, 01:45 AM
Man... Quit whining about the air combat. All aerial dogfight look like that, it just happened that the design for the airship resembles spaceship and that's probably why some people associate it with star wars, replace them with F-16/15 etc and you'll probably say they look like Top Gun or Independence Day. :rolleyes:

The only cliche I have a problem with in the intro is the "bunny ear". Damn, Japanese sure love them don't they?. That is sooo fanservice... probably for the cosplay.

Oh I love Front Mission series altho the random body part damage is a bit annoying sometime specially when you're trying to salvage a particular mech. I wish they'd let you target a specific part.

ArtisticVisions
03-22-2006, 02:31 AM
Hmm... maybe it's just me, but I've noticed that everytime a new Final Fantasy comes out, the fans seem to find something about it just sends their "Bitch-O-Meter" into overdrive. :rolleyes:

As for me, I really like the demo of FF12 that that came with Dragon Quest 8 and I absolutely love Matsuno's previous work (Chrono Cross and Vagrant Story are among my top 10 favorite RPGs), so I'll be looking forward to this new FF.
(although I do think that the main character Vaan looks WAY too metrosexual... :eek: )

Bonedaddy
03-22-2006, 02:46 AM
As for me, I really like the demo of FF12 that that came with Dragon Quest 8 and I absolutely love Matsuno's previous work (Chrono Cross and Vagrant Story are among my top 10 favorite RPGs), so I'll be looking forward to this new FF.
(although I do think that the main character Vaan looks WAY too metrosexual... :eek: )


Too Metrosexual? You like Vagrant Story. Where the big, masculine hero is smooth as a toddler's tush and named Ashley. ;)

(disclaimer: I loved VS as well, but man oh man was there some homoerotic tension going on there)

As for FF12, hopefully I can find enough time to play it, and actually keep hold of a PS2 long enough to get to the end -- my last 2 were stolen right before I got to the end of two other RPGs (Disgaea, Dragon Warrior 8).

RobertoOrtiz
03-22-2006, 05:15 AM
I am surprised that no one has brought up the the fact that certain shots were lifted directly from SW episode one.

Hell there are some characters that reminded me of Jar Jar.

tozz
03-22-2006, 07:09 AM
Hehe, there's always something or somebody who reminds someone about something ;)

They should do another 2d/sprite game, then nobody would complain about ppl looking metro, but I guess then the whole "they don't look real" would be the issue of the day :)

Array
03-22-2006, 07:33 AM
I think this will be the first game in the Final Fantasy series which I will be skipping (Yes, I played 1 through 10). I'm not at all a fan of the world of Ivalice which was establish in previous games, and the FF12 demo which came with Dragon Quest 8 was just abysmal.

For me, SquareSoft has lost a lot of its magic. I hope Mist Walker studios can live up to its hype.

bleumoon
03-22-2006, 07:41 AM
I am surprised that no one has brought up the the fact that certain shots were lifted directly from SW episode one.

Hell there are some characters that reminded me of Jar Jar.

I was just about to comment on that. I mean, if any one of those buggers says "Misa" I think I'll go into seizure <eye twitch>. Other than that, it seems like it has a pretty deep story, which I have always enjoyed from the FF series.

In the end they can show us all the intro's and pre-rendered material, but I'm going to refrain from commenting on any of it until I get a taste of the gameplay. After all, that's what really matters . . . . right?

gaiXyn
03-22-2006, 07:57 AM
I have to agree with some of you that this one doesn't have that "flare" I came to feel when a new FF was coming out, and the color isn't as vivid like it use to be, or maybe it's my monitor settings. Never the less I'm still going to get and play this one b/c I just love the eye candy involved. One of my favorite FF titles are 8 and FF tactics, those I just love. FFX and FFX2 just didn't do it for me, I do like however in FFX2 the fact that the characters don't appear in the usual 3 on one side and the fiends on the other side kind of setup. Hey, just to go off a lil here, but have you guys ever notice that kimahri in FFX looks alot like the final GF in FF8? ( for those of you that didn't play FF8, GF stands for "Guardian Force", the same as Aeon ) You know, the one you fight at the end, the one that witch summons and then merges with? Even down to the wings. I think FF8 is the future of FFX and kimahri became a GF/Aeon somewhere inbetween that period. I've always wondered what if all the FF are connected. All in the same world but at different times. I mean every single one have chocoboos in them, not to mention that Shiva and Ifrit are also in every one, so it must be the same world right? lol.

albedo4800hp
03-22-2006, 09:15 AM
Famitsu gave it a 40/40. Less than 10 games have ever had that rating, and one of those was Vagrant Story (same team). Can't wait for this one, looks great. It would be nice to get a FFT on PS3.

Famitsu are totaly FF biased so I would not give a shit on their rating when it concerns FF, they have no clue. Hence if you really want to stick to a good RPG get Xenosaga or Shadow Hearts series its way way superior to anything Square has put out since FF VII

Phrenzy84
03-22-2006, 09:22 AM
i will buy buying it, i wouldnt consider myself a hardcore FF fan, since ive only played FF since FFVII, i skipped 8 because of the review from my friends (dunno if tha was a good move) but i got 10, and i really enjoyed it, my favourite by far. Ive got 10-2, bit hard to get into, played it, then left it for a year, playing it now, but it seems ive left it again lol.

Im sure the artist working on these FMV's wont lie to you by saying they directly or paid homage to some of the big blockbuster movies ie Star Wars and LOTR. If you gonna do a bit of a space fight who better than to reference and if there is an battle going on who is the grandaddy.

I see the term "back to roots", i understand what you guys mean but if enix didnt try other things im sure you would be asking them to. I value them as one of the best story developers simply for the fact they want to try new things.

my two cents i guess. :)

edit:// binder thats a cool thought, same world different time.

aeres
03-22-2006, 11:26 AM
Is she picking her nose?

Lol

I just crap myself laughing...:applause:

Crin
03-22-2006, 11:38 AM
I'm a proper FF addict, I'm putting all work and social arrangements on hold when this comes out, as is my girlfriend, until we've finished it, twice!

Edit:: and just for the record, I think it's very easy to jump on the "Oh FF isn't like it used to be blah blah blah" bandwagon like pretty much all of you have. Why don't you actually PLAY the game before you start preaching to the world about how apparently awful it is.

thomaspecht
03-22-2006, 12:04 PM
Man... Quit whining about the air combat. All aerial dogfight look like that, it just happened that the design for the airship resembles spaceship and that's probably why some people associate it with star wars, replace them with F-16/15 etc and you'll probably say they look like Top Gun or Independence Day. :rolleyes:

can't speak for others but my association with star wars is not solely based on the aerial combat. it's the music which seems very similar and this mix of fantasy and scifi which is very naboo-esque ;) also the army crowd scenes to me look like taken from clone wars.

now let's see the game. hopefully one can skip the intro. :D unlike the non-skippable FFX-cutscenes.

6foot5
03-22-2006, 12:15 PM
Ive never really followed FF so this has probably been said before but why do all the charachters look scandanavian??
I thought this was made by a japanese company.

rakmaya
03-22-2006, 12:25 PM
The only concern of mine is that please let be not another FFX or FF8. Other than that i rly enjoyed the battle system.

All FF intros are like that, a little difference if any was to the FF8 intro but the game su*cked so bad. But the in game cenematics are really awesome when connected to the actual story line.

AND no i don't watch these cenematics b/c it spoils the fun i get when i put my dvd in the ps2 drive.

Phrenzy84
03-22-2006, 01:41 PM
Ive never really followed FF so this has probably been said before but why do all the charachters look scandanavian??
I thought this was made by a japanese company.

its all part of design my friend. It happens all the time in games and movies, drawing from other influences, be it from art or cultural references. :)

colt
03-22-2006, 02:46 PM
From a technical standpoint it's really great work. They sure do know how to render. I like how Square still uses fmvs, they keep getting rarer and rarer these days with all those ingame graphic cutscenes. Fmvs, and especially those in FF were always a big reward when playing, something that made it even more rewarding to play through the story.
I will play through this part, like I played through all of them. Hopefully they won't change too much. Even though it's an old game play system, it's still one of my favourites.

aeres
03-22-2006, 04:47 PM
Because of Jar jar now everyone is prohibited to create a creature that has floppy ears? Will any sort of scenes involving massive armies scream "Attack of the Clones" or "LOTR"?

Why didn't anyone give credit to the things that are actually unique/nice to look at in this cinematic, instead of blasting it because of a couple of passing similarities?

P.S: For the record, the same could not be said for the SUN, which is clearly a rip off.

gaiXyn
03-22-2006, 04:56 PM
YEAH!! LOL, like the cool fact that some of the ships they were flying look like knight chess pieces, others look like pawns. I thought that was nice, and what about those two hot black chicks in the beginning with the long ears, very nice too. :)

P_T
03-22-2006, 05:02 PM
Most if not all Korean RPGs have that western look, shame if the SquareEnix follow suit with their future games. The hero armour in that intro look like generic western RPG medieval armour. The bad guys armour has more of a Japanese style to it though.

Bonedaddy
03-22-2006, 05:02 PM
I think this will be the first game in the Final Fantasy series which I will be skipping (Yes, I played 1 through 10).

Then wouldn't the first you skipped be 11?

I dunno, I'll probably play it. This is just the backstory, the rest of the story may be quite different. Large armies moving against each other has provided some interesting backdrops to previous FFs. I don't particularly dig the flowery armor and faded pastel color scheme, but I'll give it a shot.


And for all of you complaining about the Star Wars bits, come on, let's not forget the font of creativity this is REALLY springing from! They were clearly ripping off Lord of the Rings.

:D

aeres
03-22-2006, 05:12 PM
Most if not all Korean RPGs have that western look, shame if the SquareEnix follow suit with their future games. The hero armour in that intro look like generic western RPG medieval armour. The bad guys armour has more of a Japanese style to it though.

I havent play any of the FFs, but I do recall a good number of them having based on medieval themes?

Correct me if I'm wrong though :)

P_T
03-22-2006, 05:16 PM
And for all of you complaining about the Star Wars bits, come on, let's not forget the font of creativity this is REALLY springing from! They were clearly ripping off Lord of the Rings.

:D

pfft... everyone knows massive army sequences are all copied from Ray Harryhausen.

aeres, that's why I thought they were going good breaking out of the medieval mold with FF7,8 and 10. Too many of those medieval stuff.

IceKatze
03-22-2006, 05:19 PM
hi hi

I've been a fan of the stylistic qualities of final fantasy games, but seriously...PANTS!

Spritemare
03-22-2006, 05:31 PM
FF 1 -- now that was a great game. Let's go back to those days.

poly-phobic
03-22-2006, 05:45 PM
what a bore...

the fighthing scenes were almost like they were not fighting scenes.. there was no mood,

i was watching as if nothing was happening.

over done... over hyped....

FFVII FO' Life foo' my last FF game. the best imo.

--------------
i dont think ill play anymore FF games... i dont think they should release anymore FF games... in the states at least. cant congress do something about that

P_T
03-22-2006, 05:59 PM
Funny how some people decide that FFXII gonna be crap just by watching the intro clip... but hey, to each his/her own.

If this game has romance in it, I'll play it. Same reason as why I played FF7 to 10-2, love that characters relationship aspect of the story.

I haven't played any great western RPG since Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Fallout. any of you got any suggestion?

Milho
03-22-2006, 06:02 PM
I am surprised that no one has brought up the the fact that certain shots were lifted directly from SW episode one.

Hell there are some characters that reminded me of Jar Jar.

You are so right, it looked influenced by EP1 alot for me, too.

PhilOsirus
03-22-2006, 06:04 PM
Famitsu are totaly FF biased so I would not give a shit on their rating when it concerns FF, they have no clue. Hence if you really want to stick to a good RPG get Xenosaga or Shadow Hearts series its way way superior to anything Square has put out since FF VII

If Famitsu was totaly FF biased they would not have given a mere 28/40 for Final Fantasy VII: Dirge of Cerberus. Oh and thanks for telling me Xenosaga is a great game, last I played it it was terribly boring, a Star Trek RPG with no original gameplay and terribly long and boring cutscenes.

As for this looking like Star Wars, what do you expect, if it has flying ships battles expect it to look like Star Wars, especially when Star Wars has openly been known as a source of inspiration for the FF teams.

Once again, good CG is brought down by a bunch of cg "artists" for anything else than the quality of the CG.

Apoclypse
03-22-2006, 06:37 PM
The intro looked oretty good. I actually liked vgrant story and I love the tactics games those are great.

ThomasMahler
03-22-2006, 06:47 PM
I don't know if this'll work out, but this is just the intro, so let's not jump the gun yet.

What I do miss is this certain feeling that I had when playing games back then, especially 'big' games like Final Fantasy. Anyone here who actually remembers how it was back then to start something like Final Fantasy VI for the first time? I was pretty young back then, saved all my money so that I could afford the import version of the game (cause it's never been officially released in europe) and it was just a blast. I still remember so many scenes of the game, so many musical tracks - I'll never ever forget that opera sequence. Or the train. Or this rainy city. It just had some magic to it that I completely miss nowadays.

The good thing is that the same guys who were responsible for Final Fantasy Tactics are responsible for XII, right? FFT is still one of the best videogames I ever played. Let's hope that there are some similarities.

PokeChop
03-22-2006, 07:37 PM
Okay, I just chugged an entire bottle of Dimetapp. Now let me watch it again to see if I can make sense of it...

Julez4001
03-22-2006, 09:07 PM
Man the facial features are dead stone. When the prince(?) was lying in the casket it looked like the entire rest of the intro. Why do they never put facial expressions on the characters and how about different sise noses, lips, cheeks. The husband and wife look like clones and the the bearded guy look like the prince with a beard.

poly-phobic
03-22-2006, 09:38 PM
Funny how some people decide that FFXII gonna be crap just by watching the intro clip... but hey, to each his/her own.

If this game has romance in it, I'll play it. Same reason as why I played FF7 to 10-2, love that characters relationship aspect of the story.

I haven't played any great western RPG since Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Fallout. any of you got any suggestion?

i was talking about the intro just fyi.

and as for judging that FFXII will be crap, i made that assesment long ago..... i didnt need an intro to figure that out:D

voivod
03-22-2006, 10:25 PM
and as for judging that FFXII will be crap, i made that assesment long ago..... i didnt need an intro to figure that out:D

Maybe...
1. You should stop judging games here... Negative feedback (in my opinion) should be at least constructive for others to possibly learn from... and...
2. You may need to read the "Before Posting" rules.

Have a wonderful day Hoss

Oh, One more thing... I do play FFXI right now on a regular basis, and have never followed FF before this version. Info. for all you fun-flamers to work with ;)

Diogenes
03-22-2006, 11:40 PM
Brought up a good point that the husband and wife look very similar, along with a few of the side characters. I seem to remember reading somewhere a long time ago that they would often look to celebs or just otherwise good-looking people for inspiration. To me it seems they had a favorite look and wanted it on as many characters as it would "work" with, without a specific idea for any specific character (small nose, sexy perfect lips, cold cool eyes). Though, I have to admit the bunny chick looks an awful lot like Phoebe(sp?) from the show Friends.

DoubleSupercool
03-23-2006, 12:06 AM
Is she picking her nose?

I am pretty sure she is pointing to herself. Japanese people touch their nose when they say "I/me" etc, like Westerners would touch their chest.

P_T
03-23-2006, 12:27 AM
I am pretty sure she is pointing to herself. Japanese people touch their nose when they say "I/me" etc, like Westerners would touch their chest.

Mate, shhh... don't tell him... didn't you know that ignorance is bliss? let him think he's funny. :D

PhilOsirus
03-23-2006, 12:34 AM
Brought up a good point that the husband and wife look very similar, along with a few of the side characters. I seem to remember reading somewhere a long time ago that they would often look to celebs or just otherwise good-looking people for inspiration. To me it seems they had a favorite look and wanted it on as many characters as it would "work" with, without a specific idea for any specific character (small nose, sexy perfect lips, cold cool eyes). Though, I have to admit the bunny chick looks an awful lot like Phoebe(sp?) from the show Friends.

It's called having to model a bunch of 3D characters in a limited time. So they re-use the same models (mesh, UVs, etc) and then modify them just enough so the facial rigs/morphs don't have to be remade.

ghZaaaRK
03-23-2006, 12:42 AM
As somebody else, i was bored by camera, we almost see nothing, about rendering, maybe compression is the cause, but colors seems pretty cold/desaturated :/
Anyway, technically there are good designs, a lot(overload) of detail, an huge amount of polygon, but as annoying as StarWars Prequel or LOTR.

another day, why not...

Array
03-23-2006, 12:53 AM
Maybe...
1. You should stop judging games here... Negative feedback (in my opinion) should be at least constructive for others to possibly learn from... and...
2. You may need to read the "Before Posting" rules.

Have a wonderful day Hoss

Oh, One more thing... I do play FFXI right now on a regular basis, and have never followed FF before this version. Info. for all you fun-flamers to work with ;)

Lets try to keep the tone in this thread civil.

Array
03-23-2006, 12:54 AM
Then wouldn't the first you skipped be 11?

I dunno, I'll probably play it. This is just the backstory, the rest of the story may be quite different. Large armies moving against each other has provided some interesting backdrops to previous FFs. I don't particularly dig the flowery armor and faded pastel color scheme, but I'll give it a shot.


And for all of you complaining about the Star Wars bits, come on, let's not forget the font of creativity this is REALLY springing from! They were clearly ripping off Lord of the Rings.

:D

11 doesnt count. That game was just a cash-in on the franchise name. They should have called it "Final Fantasy: Online" because that is what it really is.

Array
03-23-2006, 01:00 AM
Funny how some people decide that FFXII gonna be crap just by watching the intro clip... but hey, to each his/her own.

If this game has romance in it, I'll play it. Same reason as why I played FF7 to 10-2, love that characters relationship aspect of the story.

I haven't played any great western RPG since Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Fallout. any of you got any suggestion?

As mentioned earlier, playing the demo of FF12 as well as other games set in the background of Ivalice was enough to put me off from wanting to buy this game.

Most FF games have a semblance of a romantic story, barring FF1 and FF3 for the NES. It just seems that, lately, the focus has been more on the romance and less on the epic adventure. Somewhere between FF7 and FF8, the formula which made Final Fantay appeal to so many people was changed.

As far as some Western RPG's, I hear that the Morrowind series is quite good. You may also want to try the IceWind Dale series if you liked Baldur's Gate, Planescape, etc.

SuperXCM
03-23-2006, 01:00 AM
Hello all, i did'nt read all post, but i would thanks for the link, i'm a big fan of FF since the begininng, i've finished all until the X, didn't do the X-2 and the XI, but i'm very happy to see this intro, i think they come back at a strange style, mixing creature, past and future stuff, like the old ones and also near the Vagrant Story game... i'm waiting to see and play this game...
I can understand lot of people don't like this style, or perhaps they don't like Final Fantasy for all that is represent, in the commercial sense, and with all the fans that it can generate, fan who defend our "Idole":rolleyes: since the dead... anyway i really love this video, fan i am for sure, but also i try to be a CG artist, or perhaps simply an Artist, and this artist in me love really this video, love the color, the character, and the style, love also the lights (perhaps less in the final battle) and the animation is not bad:rolleyes:

So again thanks for link!! :beer:

Waiting to play the game!!

IceKatze
03-23-2006, 01:19 AM
hi hi

This is actually a sharp contrast to the intro to other Final Fantasy games, for instance Final Fantasy III(us) was a montage followed by credits walking across a snowfield, but what a tone, what a mood it set. Just thinking of that powerful, haunting melody is enough to send a shiver down my spine.

I've been told that is a common aspect of Japanese classic narrative to switch to drama and out of drama quickly, but to me it feels as though they attempted too much in the intro. Perhaps there will be segments of player interaction somewhere in there that we're not getting, but we've gone over several major plotpoints in the movie without doing anything.

At this point I would like to assert that in many cases, what is left out is at least as important as what is left in. Part of the greatness of the earlier final fantasies may have been due to the fact that they had just enough room to work with the pixels that you could achieve a feeling for the mood and style but at the same time left just the right amount of room to the imagination of the player.

I doubt anybody at square enix is going to read this, but I hope they learn/take this lesson to heart at some point in time, that rarely does it help to waste detail filling space. Leave somethings to the imagination, dont give everything away right up front. Everything you create should have a reason behind it, it will give your work a wholistic strength while at the same time allowing you to add variety and diversity that does not clash on a basic level that should be internally cohesive. Diversity and Unity are two elements that do not necessarily need to oppose eachother.

And as an aside, is it too much to ask to give your characters clothes that they might be comfortable in?

pogonip
03-23-2006, 01:44 AM
Awesome Square is the game cinematic king IMHO !!

Russta
03-23-2006, 01:55 AM
dunno if anyone has said this yet but are there any english subs for this?

ShadowHunter
03-23-2006, 02:05 AM
I've never played these games. So I will only comment on the intro. I can safely say that every single shot contained at least one (often several) cliches. Everything about that cinematic to me screams of "done before (many times)". I'm not saying that just because Lord of the Rings had massive armies and StarWars had grand scale space combat, that noone else may do the same. But if you do so at least put your own spin on it, be original. Use different camera angles, different color schemes, a different pace and combat style. Not one of the shots was original. Technically it was impressive for a game (well except for the facial expressions -- or lack there of). I did not feel for the characters, there was no tension or awe for the destruction. Very average, even corny for me. :shrug:

Array
03-23-2006, 02:35 AM
Awesome Square is the game cinematic king IMHO !!

I've actually heard that squaresoft has been outsourcing its cinematics for quite some time now. That is not to say that they dont do ANY cinematics in house, but I wouldnt be surprised if this intro is the result of a collaboration between various animation houses.

J Cae
03-23-2006, 06:52 AM
In terms only of art quality, I'm a very big fan of realism and not really that into anime style--didn't like FF7 and 9's style, although I loved 7 storywise.

I think relative to its time FF8 had the best graphics--so down to Earth. Loved it so much. FF10 begins to bother me with all the excessive colourful cheeriness. FF10-2 was plain terrible--ah those colours hurt my eyes. I wasn't too happy about the way that poster Rikku dresses what's with the yellow bikini top?

FF12...I groan at the sight of the bunny girls and Ashe's skirt...wait that's not a skirt that's her loin cloth. But what the...still getting it anyway.

Diogenes
03-23-2006, 07:35 AM
It's called having to model a bunch of 3D characters in a limited time. So they re-use the same models (mesh, UVs, etc) and then modify them just enough so the facial rigs/morphs don't have to be remade.

You seem to have missed my point.

Do Squall and Rinoa look like siblings? No. Do Cloud and Aeris look as though they could be related? Not really. Not only did they have limited technology, they had limited time back then as well. And they've been working on this game for years. My point is, is that although it's tempting to make all your characters look beautiful (and they all do), they lose some personality in doing so. Matt G (creator of The Simpsons and Futurama) said once that you know you've got a truly memorable character if you can tell who it is just from the silhouette (think of Homer Simpson or even Mickey Mouse). I'm seeing less and less of this nowadays.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's all pretty and I've already pre-ordered the game (even played the demo), I would just prefer to see some old techniques now and then. Sometimes less is more, know what I mean?

JulianHo
03-23-2006, 07:36 AM
Strangely enough, although I didn't really enjoy the gameplay, my most favorite FF game is FF8.

Basically the world presented in FF8 is ideal and logical for a world that was built on technology and magic. The designs are fantastic and true to its real-world counterpart, only more breathtaking, elaborate, and intricate in design.

It's a world I'd love to be able to revisit some day. :( I miss it.

albedo4800hp
03-23-2006, 08:46 AM
Funny how some people decide that FFXII gonna be crap just by watching the intro clip... but hey, to each his/her own.

If this game has romance in it, I'll play it. Same reason as why I played FF7 to 10-2, love that characters relationship aspect of the story.

I haven't played any great western RPG since Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Fallout. any of you got any suggestion?

Elders Scroll IV Oblivion if you have the hardware specs or a Xbox 360

Nazirull
03-23-2006, 11:00 AM
I am surprised that no one has brought up the the fact that certain shots were lifted directly from SW episode one.

Hell there are some characters that reminded me of Jar Jar.

Yeap...its Ep.1 fer sure....i not really into remakes...u know...:shrug:

Anyway...its one way for SquareEnix to show that they too, can pull it out. Which undoubtedly they can. Absolutely flawless renders.....but when it comes to characters, its too flawless....expressions on the face is almost there, but needed to be strengthened on the eyes department...everything on the body is doing something but when you look into the eyes, they dont really into it together. Just that extra blink and squint will give boost to it.

Particles!! more particles for the war scene..they made it look like its a cocktail party, even during the aftermath shots....

Anyway....just my two cents....:thumbsup:...I dont mind buying it and spending time watching it....I can absolutely learn alot from it.

Frank Lake
03-23-2006, 12:36 PM
Most FF games have a semblance of a romantic story, barring FF1 and FF3 for the NES. It just seems that, lately, the focus has been more on the romance and less on the epic adventure. Somewhere between FF7 and FF8, the formula which made Final Fantay appeal to so many people was changed.
Which is exactly my problem with every FF after 7! They moved the focus away from the characters and the over story and focused in on 2 characters and literally force you to play a 'love story' and not an rpg with a large cast. While 10 still had the focus on forcing the player to play a love story it was salvaged by it's combat system, more developed cast of characters, and it's clouded ending. Sadly most of the cast was not very memoryable, especially the 'bosses'(which should've made you want to 'defeat' them for some reason).

Oh and someone mentioned that the characters were basically copy's of 'stock' models. I'd love to believe that, but given how FF12 was announced more then 4 years ago I don't buy that what-so-ever! It's a clear lack of creativity and blatantly for marketability.

FF's saving grace was always having a cranky ole' Cid! :D :applause:

P_T
03-23-2006, 01:20 PM
Elders Scroll IV Oblivion if you have the hardware specs or a Xbox 360

I'll wait for the reviews, critic's or mate's and I'll try it on mate's machine's before I buy it.

I love great looking visuals but if the gameplay is like Morrowind, I'll pass, that was probably the most boring RPG I've ever played. No First Person Fantasy RPG ever surpassed the good old Ultima Underworld.

gaiXyn
03-23-2006, 03:46 PM
Oh and someone mentioned that the characters were basically copy's of 'stock' models. I'd love to believe that, but given how FF12 was announced more then 4 years ago I don't buy that what-so-ever! It's a clear lack of creativity and blatantly for marketability.

I can believe that, but I don't care, lol. These guys undoubtfully have presented alot of characters before one is choosen for a particular role, so let's say the character designer comes up with 20 different designs for Titus or Cloud or whoever, his boss only likes one of the designs for whatever reason, do you think they would go and destroy or get rid of the other 19 characters? I wouldn't, they know that FF in ongoing, so somewhere in the near future another title is going to be made, so maybe those characters didn't work in this titile, but they might work in the other, same goes for the fiends, bosses, stages, music, weapons, clothing, etc....Like I said before, I don't care if they really do, these guys try very, very, very hard to bring us good stuff I can't knock them if they reuse the same characters, I can't even do 1/4 of what they can do. They have proven time and time again that they're very creative, but remember, they're still human.........I think. :)

Phasma-Intra-Machina
03-23-2006, 04:49 PM
Hehe. I think people say that every time they come out with a new FF (except for maybe FFX-2...). When FF9 was coming out, Square was "going back to the roots." When FFX was coming out, Square was "going back to the roots."


But that had some pretty nice CG work (although I'd agree with the comments about facial expressions). Must say though that I'm getting just a bit sick of SquareEnix's character design style...

FF9 was back to their roots. When it bombed, (It did great, just not FF standards) it went back to FF8 styling. Some people out there, speak of FF8 as their roots these days.

xfon5168
03-23-2006, 08:14 PM
1. FF1 was a terrible game. It's barely good for Nostalgic Values.
2. FFIV was fun, but even then, it really surrounded only 2 or 3 characters then. Everyone seemed to get turned to stone or die or something (but they magically came back at the end?)
3. FFIII/VI was arguably one of the best ones ever. To whoever talked about the walking through the snow thing, thats so true.
4. FFV Was pretty rough for me, but I did kinda like the Job Class.
5. FFVII Was incredible.
6. FFVIII wasn't too bad, but it was very easy.
7. I thought FFIX was a lot of fun. It did go back to the roots quite a bit. I loved the Chocobo thing in it too. That was a blast.
8. I thought FFX was terrible. I mean, I was kinda stoked about the talking characters and all, but like...no for what, the Man Dude's face changed all throughout the game and it bugged the hell out of me. It was morel like watching a movie than playing the game. And while it's one of the only ones I haven't beaten (I believe I need to play the Japanese III as well) I have no desire to go back. Unless I'm mistaken, Goin BACK wasn't easy in that game. You had like a set path and that sucked. I think you got an airship, but you couldn't fly it, you would choose a place and then bam your there.
9. I agree FFXI should have been Final Fantasy Online.

I just watched the Video and yeah I did see some Star Wars Resemblences. But that's probably because Star Wars is a lot more fresh in our minds. There have been 2 maybe 3 SW movies since the last FF (X-2 doesn't count). And if they did take it, isn't that just the opening? I think it looks pretty sweet.

And for those who played the demo: Remember when I believe it was Brave Fencer Musashi or something like that came with the FF8 Demo? It was pretty different from when 8 Acctually came out. I remember having Leviathan at that point and a buncha things like that. The Demo isn't for sure how the game will be. Everyone should get off their high horses and just give the game a shot. Or just wait till it's a Greatest Hit and spend only 20 bucks instead of 40. If you're a fan of FF, you take the good(VI, VII, IX) with the Bad (I, X).

<steps off his Soapbox>

bobtronic
03-23-2006, 08:37 PM
I think it looks quite impressive. Character anmation could be better but didn't bother me.

Bob

Phasma-Intra-Machina
03-23-2006, 08:53 PM
I think it looks quite impressive. Character anmation could be better but didn't bother me.

Bob

I was thinking that myself, I mean... awesome that you have great looking stylized characters, but it suffers from the same problems the FF movie had, they just dont have a life-like feel to them.

The hair is stiff, (except for that one scene of him out side, then it moves 3 frames), the characters still look like dolls when they talk. And they dont use their hands when they talk... or move at all for that matter.

psyop63b
03-23-2006, 08:53 PM
The more I hate it = the bigger the FF fan I am!!! :D

.

Dennik
03-23-2006, 08:53 PM
Well that was certainly impressive but as I'm not familiar with the Final Fantasy Universe I have some questions, apologies if they're stupid:
3. Why are they fighting with swords/bow and arrows when they obviously have advanced technology


I have that question since forever regarding Anime style. Japanese have a sword fetish, can't explain it otherwise. :)

Swordsman
03-23-2006, 09:24 PM
I have that question since forever regarding Anime style. Japanese have a sword fetish, can't explain it otherwise. :)
Japan continued fighting with swords hundreds of years after the introduction of firearms from the West. Swords are a part of their national heritage. It shouldn't be any wonder why Japanese love swords.

Why are they fighting with swords/bow and arrows when they obviously have advanced technology
Probably has something to do with the technology being controlled by magic and not scientific or mechanical properties. Or maybe it's because they want to save the lasers for the heavy artillery and not the lacky footsoldier. Who knows? But that's why they call it Final Fantasy! :)

Frank Lake
03-23-2006, 09:36 PM
I have that question since forever regarding Anime style. Japanese have a sword fetish, can't explain it otherwise. :)
Because swords don't have bullets and only 'fail' when the user is unskilled.... and it's a phallic thing. ;)

Array
03-23-2006, 09:44 PM
1. FF1 was a terrible game. It's barely good for Nostalgic Values.
2. FFIV was fun, but even then, it really surrounded only 2 or 3 characters then. Everyone seemed to get turned to stone or die or something (but they magically came back at the end?)
3. FFIII/VI was arguably one of the best ones ever. To whoever talked about the walking through the snow thing, thats so true.
4. FFV Was pretty rough for me, but I did kinda like the Job Class.
5. FFVII Was incredible.
6. FFVIII wasn't too bad, but it was very easy.
7. I thought FFIX was a lot of fun. It did go back to the roots quite a bit. I loved the Chocobo thing in it too. That was a blast.
8. I thought FFX was terrible. I mean, I was kinda stoked about the talking characters and all, but like...no for what, the Man Dude's face changed all throughout the game and it bugged the hell out of me. It was morel like watching a movie than playing the game. And while it's one of the only ones I haven't beaten (I believe I need to play the Japanese III as well) I have no desire to go back. Unless I'm mistaken, Goin BACK wasn't easy in that game. You had like a set path and that sucked. I think you got an airship, but you couldn't fly it, you would choose a place and then bam your there.
9. I agree FFXI should have been Final Fantasy Online.

I just watched the Video and yeah I did see some Star Wars Resemblences. But that's probably because Star Wars is a lot more fresh in our minds. There have been 2 maybe 3 SW movies since the last FF (X-2 doesn't count). And if they did take it, isn't that just the opening? I think it looks pretty sweet.

And for those who played the demo: Remember when I believe it was Brave Fencer Musashi or something like that came with the FF8 Demo? It was pretty different from when 8 Acctually came out. I remember having Leviathan at that point and a buncha things like that. The Demo isn't for sure how the game will be. Everyone should get off their high horses and just give the game a shot. Or just wait till it's a Greatest Hit and spend only 20 bucks instead of 40. If you're a fan of FF, you take the good(VI, VII, IX) with the Bad (I, X).

<steps off his Soapbox>

I thought FF1 was quite awesome. I played the hell out of it on the original NES, and then played through it several more times on the GBA when I was stuck in bed during some tough times. For me, there's obviously a strong sense of nostalgia.

I think it a lot of it depends on your perspective as well. Sure if you play FF1 AFTER you play games like FF6 and FF7, it'll seem pretty bland. Similarly, someone who got into Final Fantasy during FF8 may think that all of the SNES versions were horrible. You have to pretty much take FF1 at face value..it's an old game which was one of the pioneers in the console RPG industry which set the tone for about 11 sequels, many spinoffs, and many immitators.

xfon5168
03-23-2006, 09:53 PM
I thought FF1 was quite awesome. I played the hell out of it on the original NES, and then played through it several more times on the GBA when I was stuck in bed during some tough times. For me, there's obviously a strong sense of nostalgia.

I think it a lot of it depends on your perspective as well. Sure if you play FF1 AFTER you play games like FF6 and FF7, it'll seem pretty bland. Similarly, someone who got into Final Fantasy during FF8 may think that all of the SNES versions were horrible. You have to pretty much take FF1 at face value..it's an old game which was one of the pioneers in the console RPG industry which set the tone for about 11 sequels, many spinoffs, and many immitators.


You're right. I believe I started with III/VI and then went to 7. Then went back and beat all of them (except the 2 mentioned). I think the main reason why I didn't like is like... you had to go through SO MUCH crap when you would level up. And like when more than one would level up in a battle, you better go get a good book and relax cause you've got some time haha.

Jadetiger
03-23-2006, 09:58 PM
FF never ceases to amaze me. This into had a Lord of the Rings/Star Wars kind of feel to it. I'm looking forward to playing it. Now would someone be so kind as to buy me a Play Station?:D

Vizjerei
03-24-2006, 04:39 PM
I got a feeling that it looks more like Starwars now :P

WyattHarris
03-24-2006, 05:50 PM
They have some different ones on gametrialers.com. Check out the gameplay videos, they show pretty standard fare for FF. Thats a good thing.

My first impression was that this was a remake of the celebration scene at the end of EP1. Mostly in flow and direction only. That doesn't bother me.

I just think Square's character designs (while creative) are so goofy looking. I could understand if they going with traditional Japanese clothing but this is nothing close to that. Squall was pretty cool looking all in leather, then they gave him a nice fluffy fur collar. Yeah, that kills the bad boy look pretty quick. Ashley Riot from Vagrant Story, tough guy... in butt less pants?!? Tidus, 1 half pant leg, half shirt and suspenders. Then again most of the characters in FF7 where kept low key. Auren looked very nice as the gruff angry older guy. I could believe his character. I get tired of bizarre Japanese designs, give me a character that can establish himself through performance not his clothes.

Having said all that I will play this game, I may or may not like it. FF stories have gotten quite outlandish lately. Sakaguchi has not shown himself to be a very good writer. FF7 wasn't too bad, FF8 was like watching some WB tween show, FF9 tried to do too much and FF10 while the twist at the end was pretty interesting you could see it coming a mile away. The real problem is the whole "small group of kids (usually) saving the world from some cataclism that will destroy everything." That's getting old, but that's FF.

I'm very excited to hear the guy from Vagrant Story is in charge. FFT and VS were 2 of the best games Square has ever put out story wise. Much darker and menacing. You get a sense of Dark Horse vs. Disney when comparing these 2 against the FF series.

But again, I will play FF12, you can bank on that. Just as soon as I can pry myself away from WoW.

WyattHarris
03-24-2006, 05:54 PM
BTW, Square can't hold a candle to Blizzard's cinematics. The scene when the orc army charges over the hill in WarCraft 3, top notch.

Luxury
03-24-2006, 06:28 PM
IMO, nothing can even come close to the Kingdom Hearts 2 opening FMV. I've probably watched that 50+ times.

(still downloading this one - 27 min remaining - *twiddles thumbs*)

eliseu gouveia
03-24-2006, 09:31 PM
Those bunny girls are hot! :D

J/K


I have to agree that although technically very impressive, it lacks that spark the previous instalments had, there´s no flame, no one there for you to identify with... hmmm.

I will be buying it of course, and praying for some time to actually play it (the pile of unplayed videogames that rests on top of my tvset has started to look alarmingly large)

gunslingerblack
03-24-2006, 09:57 PM
I am surprised that no one has brought up the the fact that certain shots were lifted directly from SW episode one.

alittle off topic but, let's not forget the original starwars is almost a direct rip of the kurosawa film the hidden fortress, i mean theres dialogue that is word for word taken right out of that movie so, its not uncommon to borrow in these sorts of things, but could you be specific as to which shots you were referring to?

(none of it really reminded me of ep 1 those jar jar type character existed before if im not mistaken (but i have been in the past))

as for the intro i liked it, i can see how some people thought it was alittle slow, and yeah i think it's time for the cinematics teams responsible for these sequences to get alittle exaggeration and life into thier characters faces, it's too subtle. (i had the same observation about the kingdom hearts 2 intro)

allelement
03-24-2006, 10:21 PM
another bash on japanese animation thread. nice.

Diogenes
03-25-2006, 12:16 AM
another bash on japanese animation thread. nice.

Did you read any of it? Nobody "bashed" their skills, just commented on their choice of direction and music score because it reminded some people of other works. Everything said here is basically pointless until the game comes out, anyway.

Wongedan
03-25-2006, 09:49 AM
Im kinda dissapointed, not 100% dissapointed,.
but they lost their own idendity, starting to copy starwars and lord of the rings .... :(
I want my final fantasy 7 and 9 back .......
and all the face kinda stiff ......., what the heck, we got less colour in the character (which is makes final fantasy unique) , arrrgghhh


I hope they have nice gameplay and environment ....

xyzboy
03-25-2006, 09:54 AM
I think I actually saw Jar Jar Binks in there... **shiver**
I read thru most of the posts and I agree with some, disagree with others. The Star Wars influence is obvious. Visually I think it's amazing. I can't comment on anything else, considering it was all in Japanese with Japanese subtitles (I'll never understand that, I thought the whole purpose of subtitles was translation?). I've only played FF7 and FFX yet I consider myself a really big fan (loved Advent Children). When I hear people talking about an emotional connection to the characters, I think they're being a little overly critical. Hell, I had an emotional connection with the characters in FF7 and they didn't even have mouths, and most of the story was told through text and wonky sound clips (I still smile every time I hear it on someone's cell phone). It's the story that develops the connection, and you're not going to get that during a 7 minute marketing piece in a different language. As to the beautiful coastal Utopias... they always seem to use it to mark the contrast between it and some dismal destination a la Mordor and Minas Tirith. Anyway... regardless of the effeminate male leads and Baroque meets American Idol fashion, Square Enix creates magnificent worlds, and that's what I'm looking forward to. They're definitely not "missing their market" though, as someone said. Americans aren't exactly their target, and never really have been. I hope they never fall into that muddy water of trying to please everyone. Design by committee is the norm in games nowadays and you can see how wonderful that is.

Jinnaboy
03-25-2006, 10:06 AM
copy and pasted faces for both male and female(evryone looks the same, admit it) floaty animation with questionable weight, another thing i dont like abt japanese cg is that because evryone has that perfect catwalk body, you loose this sense of individuality in their characters, thre should be a variety of body scales. and the "clean"/ baby smooth skin look makes evrything look more 'bland'.

i'm just criticizing the looks of the film based on my own opinion. battle scenes looks alright, could use a bit more originality. but then again, square has sold tens of millions of copies of these stuff, so it wouldnt suprose me if this is formulaic to keep the 'fans' happy. as you can tell, i'm not a fan.

thanks god we still got blizzard ;)

Zeicon
03-25-2006, 10:31 AM
IMO, nothing can even come close to the Kingdom Hearts 2 opening FMV. I've probably watched that 50+ times.

You inspired me to go find this opening trailer and see it for myself. Boring and drawn out. What surprised me the most though was to suddenly see Donald Duck and other Disney characters in this otherwise very Japanese, anime-ish animation. I'm not familiar with the KH universe, but what the *beep* is up with that? Mixing western cartoons with Japanese anime just struck me as somewhat bizarre. Is Donald Duck a popular character in Japan or something? Someone enlighten me please...

Frank Lake
03-25-2006, 01:18 PM
BTW, Square can't hold a candle to Blizzard's cinematics. The scene when the orc army charges over the hill in WarCraft 3, top notch.
The two styles are are not comparable, but then again I've NEVER seen Blizzard attempt a non-violent character based scene either! Kinda surprised that you didn't try to say that Bungie was better too! :rolleyes:

Now repeat after me: "ALL HAIL THE FAYBOY!!!"

xyzboy, Ummm you realize that if SquarEnix's FF was not sold in english form that neither would be as large as they are. The english market most definatly makes up 50+% of their market and since console gaming has been tradionally male in scope they mostly miss their 'audience' with the highly effeminate male characters. Which is why I said they are not targetting their 'normal' market.

P_T
03-25-2006, 02:17 PM
xyzboy, Ummm you realize that if SquarEnix's FF was not sold in english form that neither would be as large as they are. The english market most definatly makes up 50+% of their market and since console gaming has been tradionally male in scope they mostly miss their 'audience' with the highly effeminate male characters. Which is why I said they are not targetting their 'normal' market.

xyzboy, I'd like to say I'm a fan of FASA's Mechwarrior and Mechcommander franchise and I want to ask, is there's gonna be any new MW or MC games comin out for PC?

Frank Lake, why did you think it gain so much popularity in first place? I doubt Square was trying to target western market or expecting it to be that successful when they released FF7 internationally.

Most of Japanese male character design are androgynous in nature, be it in anime or manga or CG animation. Their heroes are usually in their teens or young adult too and I think they're still gaining popularity in western market.

With all that in mind, I really hope they won't try to please the western market by making their content even more western styled, we got the western studios to make those kinds of games. Let SquareEnix and other Asian studios have their own style. Love it or hate it, success or flop, no middle ground with average sales.

As it is, they're probably already trying to please the western market by having those sequences that you guys identify as from LOTR or SW (eventhough I don't see it as such).

eMPeck
03-25-2006, 02:28 PM
Actually, when I saw SW E1, and Naboo shots, that creature Obi Wan rode in E3, and few others, I thought about Final Fantasy. It is not FF ripping from SW, it works in a both ways ;)

ThomasMahler
03-25-2006, 04:31 PM
I just saw about 30 mins of the import version - I actually really liked what I've seen. Looks like a nice mix between Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy XI and Vagrant Story.

I never really liked Final Fantasy X - But I'll for sure buy XII this October.

PhilOsirus
03-25-2006, 04:56 PM
You inspired me to go find this opening trailer and see it for myself. Boring and drawn out. What surprised me the most though was to suddenly see Donald Duck and other Disney characters in this otherwise very Japanese, anime-ish animation. I'm not familiar with the KH universe, but what the *beep* is up with that? Mixing western cartoons with Japanese anime just struck me as somewhat bizarre. Is Donald Duck a popular character in Japan or something? Someone enlighten me please...

Disney and Squaresoft (now Square-Enix) made a game called Kingdom Hearts. It is about kids travelling through all the Disney worlds to fight creatures known as the Heartless. They visit various worlds such as Nightmare Before Christmas's, Peter Pan's, Tarzan's, Pirates of the Caribbeans', Tron's, etc. There is also a bunch of Final Fantasy characters present.

xyzboy
03-25-2006, 06:46 PM
Hey P_T, I actually started at FASA pretty recently and am working on an unrelated 360 title. I actually don't know what they have in the works as far as Mechwarrior goes, and even if I did, I'm not sure I could say anything about it :).

And Frank Lake, I do realize that the American market has contributed to FFVII's (and other's) success, my point is that Square didn't go into it catering to American tastes. I always think it's sad to see a director's vision knee-capped by the powers-that-be. And the resulting mud you get by trying to please your "target" is always less satisfying than the original idea. They wouldn't need a Director's cut of every movie if directors were given artistic freedom in the first place (look what happened to Firefly... best series ever). And yah, I know, movies and games are a business too. But you can hope. That's why I like where games are headed (on the pc at least), where gamers are able to create their own stories, characters, and worlds instead of just eating whatever gets fed to them. I think mods are the future of gaming... or at least a future.

One last thing... I agree with eMPeck since Star Wars was a big bite off of Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress. It does go both ways.

Frank Lake
03-25-2006, 07:28 PM
xyzboy, I don't believe that they've pandered overtly to a specific audience before FF7. But after that they made a concentrated effort to target the female audience with all of the 'beautiful people'(ala pop idol). As for the future of 'open' gaming, by which you mean every other gaming genre FINALLY caught up with what was established in the very early 90's(by the space fighter simulators), well not unless they sink some serious writing ability into some of this 'open' games because they are no longer 'quick', nor 'fun', or 'entertaining'. Elderscrolls takes some strides in the 'right' direction, but it still has a long long way to go!

P_T, to be honest they didn't need to cater to the english audiences at all because by FF7 the francise had a solid fanbase with their reasonable hits of FF 4 & 5(3). Heck FF4 was still selling for nearly 60 bucks 'used' for over 5 years past it's release date!

Anyways i'd rather play 'heroes' and not sytlish bums.

crimsoneye
03-26-2006, 02:25 AM
I'm really looking forward to this new FF. I noticed a number ppl don't like it and should noticed that video game develops nowadays are kind of moving away from the turn base systems of the past. Also, why is everyone compare Final fantasy XIII to Star wars. I mean Star War drew some of it ideas from Japanese Culture and Buddhism.

Jedi= Japanese Samurai and Buddhism
Dog fights of Star wars= Dog fights of World War II
Light Saber= Katana


I kinda agree on that they keep using some of the same old cliches of RPGs. You got the group of teens or young adults in their 20's saving the world with a old guy in his 40's or 50's.They should try to vary the look of the characters too. Make some ugly, some in between, and good looking. Hopeful with in the next generation they take advantage of facial expression, since now they don't have no reason not to do so. For example bioware's Mass Effect is taking advantage of facial expression due to the techology that the 360 has.

But, you guy should know it might be a techology thing with the ps2. Since the ps2 is base off of techology that came out five years ago.
P.S: At least rent it if you said that you don't like it.

Array
03-26-2006, 03:31 AM
xyzboy, I don't believe that they've pandered overtly to a specific audience before FF7. But after that they made a concentrated effort to target the female audience with all of the 'beautiful people'(ala pop idol). As for the future of 'open' gaming, by which you mean every other gaming genre FINALLY caught up with what was established in the very early 90's(by the space fighter simulators), well not unless they sink some serious writing ability into some of this 'open' games because they are no longer 'quick', nor 'fun', or 'entertaining'. Elderscrolls takes some strides in the 'right' direction, but it still has a long long way to go!

P_T, to be honest they didn't need to cater to the english audiences at all because by FF7 the francise had a solid fanbase with their reasonable hits of FF 4 & 5(3). Heck FF4 was still selling for nearly 60 bucks 'used' for over 5 years past it's release date!

Anyways i'd rather play 'heroes' and not sytlish bums.


What happened after FF6 was that Yoshitaka Amano left SquareSoft because he didnt want to work in 3d.

Also, there has to have been an effort to appeal to a wider audience. If you look at FF1-FF5, the improvements are very incremental. FF6 was a HUGE leap forward. What happened between FF5 and FF6? The USA got their release of FF4 (FF2 in the USA) for SNES. This, most likely, gave Square a huge kick in the budget department. Following the success of FF6 in the US, FF7 was the next huge leap, and then we all know the story from there.

P_T
03-26-2006, 02:53 PM
What happened after FF6 was that Yoshitaka Amano left SquareSoft because he didnt want to work in 3d.

I don't think he left Square, just working on a different game. I got his illustration book SILENCE : Art of Front Mission (1995 -2003). The timeline sounds about right if he stopped working on FF after the 6th installment. FF7 was released in '97 if I remember correctly.

xyzboy, can't you ask your boss to make another MW or MC game? :D

Frank Lake, to me, what you said in your last post and what you said in your previous post to xyzboy kind of contradict each other. First you said the mostly male dominated english market makes up for 50+% for SquareEnix and that they missed their audience with their effiminated male characters, then you said they don't need to cater to the english audience at all.

JulianHo
03-26-2006, 03:12 PM
What happened after FF6 was that Yoshitaka Amano left SquareSoft because he didnt want to work in 3d.

Amano's is essentially a independant full-time artist. His involvement with Final Fantasy as concept artist and character designer ended in FF6.

However, Amano is still commissioned by SquareEnix regularly to do several sets of portraits and paintings for every single FF game.

So, he's still doing Final Fantasy artwork.

PhilOsirus
03-26-2006, 05:22 PM
Amano is credited for conceptual artwork for Final Fantasy VII as well. I even have a few FFVII concept arts from him (as well as for FFVIII and FFX). If I remember right he was credited for conceptual artwork for environments or some such and he always kept on making promotional artwork for the games.

gunslingerblack
03-26-2006, 05:26 PM
doesn't amano still do the logo art?

ambient-whisper
03-26-2006, 07:16 PM
I kinda agree on that they keep using some of the same old cliches of RPGs. You got the group of teens or young adults in their 20's saving the world with a old guy in his 40's or 50's.They should try to vary the look of the characters too. Make some ugly, some in between, and good looking. Hopeful with in the next generation they take advantage of facial expression, since now they don't have no reason not to do so. For example bioware's Mass Effect is taking advantage of facial expression due to the techology that the 360 has.

But, you guy should know it might be a techology thing with the ps2. Since the ps2 is base off of techology that came out five years ago.
P.S: At least rent it if you say don't like it.

if you look at the gameplay videos there is expression in the characters. not the cartoony /over exagerrated kind, but it is there. the stuff that they did with the eye area is very very nice. the mouthes arent great yet, but then again they dont have THAT many polygons to work with around there either. theres only so much you can do.

as for cinematics in it. i dont really care. you dont play the cinematics, and i kind of want to see them move completely away from it as soon as they start making their games for the ps3 and above.

Squash-n-Stretch
03-27-2006, 09:25 AM
I hate to add to the fan-boyishness of this thread (seriously; some people are being rude; knowing everything about RPG's does not make you cool ;)) but I used to be a hufe Squaresoft fan so I'll throw in my two cents.

I reckon FFVIII is the best game ever made, while FFVII, IX and Vagrant Story are also amazing. But I did hate FFX. The story, characters and world in FFX were nausiating, and they missed a huge oppurtunity with Blitzball. I'm probably the only one in the world that thinks FFX-2 offered more in terms of fun (I accept that :twisted:)

I was looking forward to this game until I saw this opening. Several really important events happened in the space of four minutes which would have been played out over a few hours in one of the previous games. Why? Well, because the chick who lost her husband (awaiting a furious assault from fanboys) is going to spend the rest of the game moaning about it. How are we supposed to care if we never saw that relationship develop? Same with the captain that pulled the pretty prince out of the battle, although he'll probably be all broody and quiet (although I think I will like this character, even though his character design is a bit pants.

Oh, and they decided to invade several other neighbouring countries very quickly if you ask me :D The design of the soldiers was cool though, and the Judges really do look bad-ass...I think that could save the game...having 6 Darth vaders walking around is no bad thing! :scream: I have my own opinions on their involvement in the plot, but I shall keep them to myself :wise:

P_T
03-27-2006, 09:58 AM
the mouthes arent great yet, but then again they dont have THAT many polygons to work with around there either. theres only so much you can do.

Martin, I thought the lips movement is pretty spot on with what they're saying. Japanese pronounciation is different than English where you pronounce the vowel only in one way: あ (ah), い (ee), う (oo), え (eh), お (oh).

Squash-n-Stretch, if you played FFX-2 then I'd say you are one of the fanboy since that's the last FF game they got, FFXI doesn't really count since it's more like FF Online. And don't make this thread worse with your flamebait.

mechaXB
03-27-2006, 12:42 PM
What happened after FF6 was that Yoshitaka Amano left SquareSoft because he didnt want to work in 3d.

Also, there has to have been an effort to appeal to a wider audience. If you look at FF1-FF5, the improvements are very incremental. FF6 was a HUGE leap forward. What happened between FF5 and FF6? The USA got their release of FF4 (FF2 in the USA) for SNES. This, most likely, gave Square a huge kick in the budget department. Following the success of FF6 in the US, FF7 was the next huge leap, and then we all know the story from there.

i don't *u_u*. but i'd like to since i just got my hands on FF-VII (PC) after a friend of mine showed me his FF collection for the playstation(s). so - where can i read about the "square & enix story"? ^_^

(promise: the day FFXII arrives in europe i'll by a ps2!)

JulianHo
03-27-2006, 01:21 PM
where can i read about the "square & enix story"? ^_^

Here ya go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SquareEnix

Apparently, Enix bought Square.... Pretty much in the veins of Disney bought Pixar.

Dennik
03-27-2006, 03:16 PM
I'm geting more and more bored to death by the animations coming out of Square-Enix.

Their characters are all the same. Their idle expressions limited to lips barely moving, and eyes blinking, the scenario always involves a bird flock flying in the air, a rain of pedals, Some kind of parade, huge swords, heroes with spikey grey hair, and medieval weaponry together with hightech gadgets. Its RIDICULOUS!!!

Why would any advanced civilisation that has flying ships, still be using swords and spears? My mind cannot fit this concept. Every trailer i get to see from this genre, is getting cheesier and cheesier. I don't get it, whats the good thing you see about them. Good rendering quality? So what!!!

WyattHarris
03-27-2006, 05:12 PM
I hope they never fall into that muddy water of trying to please everyone. Design by committee is the norm in games nowadays and you can see how wonderful that is.

Well said.

The two styles are are not comparable, but then again I've NEVER seen Blizzard attempt a non-violent character based scene either! Kinda surprised that you didn't try to say that Bungie was better too!

Check out the opening intro to WoW (its pretty easy to find online), it's a good mix of peace and violence. The scenes with the dwarf and tauren are especially good. Then it transitions to the battles between the different races. Actually I haven't played any Bungie games, but then I don't own a Mac or XBox.

and the Judges really do look bad-ass...

Now that's something Square does that I like. Their power characters are usually designed very well. (Sephiroth, Auren) Unfortunately they are always flanked by whiners.

When I first turned on FFX, I was very excited by the first scene. That's the one in Zanarkand during the Bliztball game. That vid had great music, was very fast paced and just very entertaining. I thought, "Wow, this is a great departure for Square." After that scene, you end up on the beach and everything that got me jazzed up didn't even exist. That's how I felt.

As for the swords, they really like having that connection to the past in there. I can understand that, hence the lightsaber in SW and crysknives in Dune. Melee combat is just more exciting than pulling a trigger. Square has gotten around that in the past with the gun-sword. Didn't notice if they were doing the same this time.

niva
03-27-2006, 10:35 PM
Ive never really followed FF so this has probably been said before but why do all the charachters look scandanavian??
I thought this was made by a japanese company.

This is an interesting point. The Japanese seem to be obsessed with blond hair in particular, I think because it is genetically almost impossible in their genepool to end up with blond hair.

Another thing to comment on is how people say some of their male characters look feminine. This started back in FF7 with both Cloud and Sephiroth looking rather girlish despite the big swords they were swinging around. While many of us find the lack of facial hair 'strange' or as someone here said 'homoerotic' I think it is another genetic uniqueness of asians, most of them do not have much facial hair. Many of my young asian friends do have goofy haircuts like those portrayed in FF games and many of them have the tendency to color their hair.

Anyways, I think their games are definitely built to appeal to the young asian male and female both.

I'm not asian but I don't mind it, I love the FF universe and have played almost all the games through (never finished FF9 and FFX-2) and I'm looking forward to the new game.

I like the cg intro too, as far as the quality of the movie goes: nice.

And yes, I didn't care for the Star Wards influence in this cinematic.

FrozZT
03-27-2006, 11:05 PM
[QUOTE=Array]What happened after FF6 was that Yoshitaka Amano left SquareSoft because he didnt want to work in 3d.
QUOTE]

He is still doing work for square...
Here is some work he has done for,

FF VII: http://www.ffshrine.org/ff7/ff7_amanoartwork.php

FF VIII: http://www.ffshrine.org/ff8/ff8_amanoart.php

FF X: http://www.ffshrine.org/ffx/ffx_amanoart.php
http://www.ffshrine.org/ffx/ffx_amanologosketch.php

he has also done loads of work for FF XI, but i couldnt find any on that page.. google and you'll probably find some..

The intro was interesting by the way.. the drama in the intro got my hopes up for a great story.

Kupoo!

stooch
03-27-2006, 11:26 PM
Funny how some people decide that FFXII gonna be crap just by watching the intro clip... but hey, to each his/her own.

If this game has romance in it, I'll play it. Same reason as why I played FF7 to 10-2, love that characters relationship aspect of the story.

I haven't played any great western RPG since Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Fallout. any of you got any suggestion?

WoW (world of warcraft - blizzard FTW ).

Also, what always turned me off was the ridiculous juxtaposition of technology and umm. knives.

Seems like a good SEAL team could reduce that entire army in seconds. get some A-10 strikes and some m14 action. blow off nuggets all day.

Riding chickens? hmm, reminds me of that icy planet hoth from sw.
Floppy ears (and overall shape), hmm reminds me of that jar jar from sw.
Using knives when there are plenty of highly lethal projectile arms? hmm, reminds me of sw.
Space ship looking things that hover over armies armed with knives? hmm, reminds me of sw.
I really could go on.

Great rendering, ok animation, great music (reminds me of sw), interesting camera work (reminds me of sw). Massive crowd scenes (reminds me of...).

btw you know, im getting a weird feeling of deja vu, like i just walked out of a star wars epizode. bored.

I think they could learn alot by looking to blizzard rather then star wars for inspiration.

rakmaya
03-28-2006, 12:09 AM
WoW (world of warcraft - blizzard FTW ).

Riding chickens? hmm, reminds me of that icy planet hoth from sw.
Floppy ears (and overall shape), hmm reminds me of that jar jar from sw.
Using knives when there are plenty of highly lethal projectile arms? hmm, reminds me of sw.
Space ship looking things that hover over armies armed with knives? hmm, reminds me of sw.
I really could go on.

I think they could learn alot by looking to blizzard rather then star wars for inspiration.

First of all, just b/c someone had a space ship floating and looking down at the army, doesn't mean no one should fit it in. Why is it all of a sudden every scene in every movie becomes labeled after a previous one.

Square had Chocobo since ages and have become a major part of the game, may be and may not be because of star wars, but been there for more than 12 hours of entertainment time.

One of the main part of FIX was flying ships and large check-point gates and how much that played a role in the survival of other kingdoms. Many designers are influenced by this weired combinations and they just carried than to FXI. Of course as usual, influenced by other movies and video games.

War between large kingdoms, time-traveling were all part of the square games since xenogears (and much earlier). Like many other, they are also influenced by many movies and games, not just star wars.

Like a lot of people I hated some and liked some of their games. Oh! and by the way, you forgot to mention that the emotions in the intro su*ck as bad as the acting in first 3 episodes in the sw series. I guess that means, they were trying to make it look exactly like star wars! :rolleyes:

P_T
03-28-2006, 12:18 AM
WoW eh? Playin RPG that never ends... doing the same shit over and over again just to get a certain item... I'll pass, besides, there are plenty of other MMO that are better than WoW.

It also looks like Blizzard just ripped off a couple of ideas from other MMO in their up and coming expansion, the marriage thing (which is just gonna be a gimmick in WoW while it actually has an effect in other games like Ragnarok Online and Lineage) and the flying pet thing.

Riding chickens? hmm, reminds me of that icy planet hoth from sw.

Chocobo's been around long before this intro, you're either clueless about FF or you're just nitpicking.

PhilOsirus
03-28-2006, 01:49 AM
Funny how people use this game to analyze Japanese society. This is the most European-styled FF since FFVI, and it is so different from all other past FFs before (thanks to the completely reinvented gameplay) that while it got great reviews and is selling very well, it's also getting criticised for being too different and too difficult.

So for those who say you are getting sick of the same old stuff, maybe this is the FF for you afterall. (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2591&Itemid=2)

Oh and this is a lot like Star Wars? Good, maybe it will be the first Star Wars I'll enjoy since Return of the Jedi:P

anakinbrego
03-28-2006, 11:23 AM
This is my favorite scene! :D

http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/1419/941mf.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

Pufferfish
03-28-2006, 11:53 AM
Intro looks very nice, but for some reason it reminds me of Star Wars, I was expecting to see Jar Jar. Nevertheless it was very fine.

gaiXyn
03-28-2006, 01:32 PM
Star Wars this...!..?>...Lord of the Rings that....?..<..!...The way I see it, if you guys are comparing FFXII to those movies, ( you know who you are ) then it must mean that the intro in FFXII was good. Why? b/c it's human nature to reference something we're seen before to something else that looks just as good, and we'll continue to do that until a movie or game that does that particular scene better, and then we'll start using that scene for comparison. How many of you have seen anything dealing with bullet time and automatically reference it with the Matrix, when in fact they've been music videos back in the day doing this long before the Matrix, but of course it wasn't as good. I do it to, I find myself saying "oh, this scene looks just like that scene from that movie or game" But then I remember that "There's nothing new under the Sun" So weather you like SW or LOTR or whatever, one can tell when somethiing was done well when one tries to find something in his mind to compare it to and therefore can acknowledge it. This intro was great, I just didn't get as excited about it as I did with past FF series, and after reading the posts, something explains why. I had no idea that Enix brought Square, ( I'm not what you would call a fan of FF, but I do like their games ) I just thought Square Soft had changed there name to Square Enix and that was it. With this new information, I realize why there games have droped a few points for me.

MrPositive
03-28-2006, 03:42 PM
Why was that one scene almost a complete replica of the star wars parade at the end of the Phantom Menace? The characters also seem kind of stiff......I would assume that if they were put on cgtalk they wouldn't receive front page. But the best part is the kid who looks 15 and has a voice over that sounds 50!.....weird

P_T
03-28-2006, 04:29 PM
Why was that one scene almost a complete replica of the star wars parade at the end of the Phantom Menace?

I swear to you that SW parade looks almost like a complete replica of Sydney's Mardi Gras parade.

MrPositive
03-28-2006, 04:34 PM
I swear to you that SW parade looks almost like a complete replica of Sydney's Mardi Gras parade.

You mean complete with cg characters, soft lighting and shadows, aliens playing musical instruments? If so, count me in for hoisting a stick for the yoda float!

gunslingerblack
03-28-2006, 04:37 PM
haha wow all you need to say is star wars and people start imagining different things to associate to it....sheesh, it's too bad noone has seen the hidden fortress i suggest renting it and then you can start a thread about how star wars is a direct ripoff of that movie.

that and old british war films, have fun with that...

(if you ever notice in the special features for the originals they use the word borrow alot)

MrPositive
03-28-2006, 04:42 PM
haha wow all you need to say is star wars and people start imagining different things to associate to it....sheesh, it's too bad noone has seen the hidden fortress i suggest renting it and then you can start a thread about how star wars is a direct ripoff of that movie.

that and old british war films, have fun with that...

(if you ever notice in the special features for the originals they use the word borrow alot)
"A direct ripoff"?
Then who played Greedo, Jabba the Hut, and Wedge in The Hidden Fortress. Riddle me this?

Mic_Ma
03-28-2006, 05:21 PM
Actually, the way the katakana's read is more like A-Che not "ache" as in pain.

lol @ clanger's questions. It's not that they're stupid, it's just weird, didn't think anyone's THAT ignorant about FF. The giant chicken or "chocobo" is one of the iconic creature from FF universe.

errrr..."Aashe", actually...

P_T
03-28-2006, 05:31 PM
You mean complete with cg characters, soft lighting and shadows, aliens playing musical instruments? If so, count me in for hoisting a stick for the yoda float!

Well it had plenty of lighting and shadows for sure, it was a sunny day, and there were a lot of guys and gals in costumes so weird they might as well be aliens, and yes, plenty of music. You can join in the parade... if you're a homosexual, it's a gay and lesbian parade. :D

errrr..."Aashe", actually...

err.. actually, if you really wanna get technical, it's "a-shie". I was just pointing out the fact that it doesn't sound like "ache", more like "a-che" to any english speaker who doesn't know how to read the katakana.

Pufferfish
03-28-2006, 05:40 PM
My Star Wars comment was not ment to be negative. The intro is very well done. The shot from the street... with 2 of those girls walking and some odd creatures right there etc. has similar mood in it and overall the world is very rich filled with all flying things and weird animals like in SW. There is nothing bad in it.

Since when we have lost the right to say there is resemblances between 2 things?

Who ever takes it negative, I am sorry.

PhilOsirus
03-28-2006, 05:54 PM
You mean complete with cg characters, soft lighting and shadows

Right! We all know that's exclusive to Star Wars! :rolleyes:

gunslingerblack
03-28-2006, 06:21 PM
mr positive have you SEEN the hidden fortress...first of all the characters c3p0 and r2d2 are taken directly out of that movie, not to mention quotes of those characters. the plot arcs are identical. the character mifune plays serves as both obi wan at times and han solo, there is a big duel at the end with the only difference being that the "obi wan" character survives. basically take hidden fortress put it in space make the tall guy and the short guy robots and take some of the dialogue and write new characters for it and you have star wars.

"we seem to be made to suffer, it's our lot in life"

it's in there, look for it

the one thing i liked about watching the hidden fortress was that i got to see what r2 was actually saying, to a close approximation. it made the original movie alittle more enlightening


(where are all the spaceships in the hidden fortress?? riddle me this)

Neil
03-28-2006, 07:45 PM
mr positive have you SEEN the hidden fortress...first of all the characters c3p0 and r2d2 are taken directly out of that movie, not to mention quotes of those characters. the plot arcs are identical. the character mifune plays serves as both obi wan at times and han solo, there is a big duel at the end with the only difference being that the "obi wan" character survives. basically take hidden fortress put it in space make the tall guy and the short guy robots and take some of the dialogue and write new characters for it and you have star wars.

yeah or swap the killer from movie XYZ with a different guy, give him a different weapon and put them in a different environment. Congratulations, you have a new horror movie too!

Dude, this formula works with everything in hollywood. You swap enough variables of course you're gonna have something else.

gunslingerblack
03-28-2006, 08:39 PM
once again, watch the hidden fortress, when you see the lines of dialogue lifted right out of the movie you can then appreciate how right i am.

it's almost as bad as saying the magnificent seven is it's own original film because it's cowboys instead of samurai

or fistfull of dollars and the other 3 or 4 remakes of yojimbo same situation

MrPositive
03-28-2006, 11:07 PM
mr positive have you SEEN the hidden fortress...first of all the characters c3p0 and r2d2 are taken directly out of that movie, not to mention quotes of those characters. the plot arcs are identical. the character mifune plays serves as both obi wan at times and han solo, there is a big duel at the end with the only difference being that the "obi wan" character survives. basically take hidden fortress put it in space make the tall guy and the short guy robots and take some of the dialogue and write new characters for it and you have star wars.

"we seem to be made to suffer, it's our lot in life"

it's in there, look for it

the one thing i liked about watching the hidden fortress was that i got to see what r2 was actually saying, to a close approximation. it made the original movie alittle more enlightening



Yes I've witnessed the Hidden Fortress....in fact, I own the entire Kurosawa boxset. My honest opinion is some people overextend the comparisons between the films to find any fault in George Lucas (aka the most hated man in Hollywood). Regardless, I think the Final Fantasy introduction is beautiful but I find it awkward that people cannot handle their favorite game being criticized on legitimate merits.

crimsoneye
03-29-2006, 12:04 AM
WoW (world of warcraft - blizzard FTW ).

Riding chickens? hmm, reminds me of that icy planet hoth from sw.
Floppy ears (and overall shape), hmm reminds me of that jar jar from sw.
Using knives when there are plenty of highly lethal projectile arms? hmm, reminds me of sw.
Space ship looking things that hover over armies armed with knives? hmm, reminds me of sw.
I really could go on.

Great rendering, ok animation, great music (reminds me of sw), interesting camera work (reminds me of sw). Massive crowd scenes (reminds me of...).

btw you know, im getting a weird feeling of deja vu, like i just walked out of a star wars epizode. bored.

I think they could learn alot by looking to blizzard rather then star wars for inspiration.

First thing I want to point out that this a video game and not reality. Another thing I wanna say is stop with the star war comparison. Because it has flying ships doesn't mean that they got it from star wars. There are many other movies and books before star wars that had huge flying ships, furturisic weapons, and the Japanese have been using characters with floppy ears before Jar Jar. In anime there are characters that have bunny ears and character that some would call furries.

Also, stop acting look Star Wars is the most orignal thing every made. George Lucas got his ideas from other movies,books,cultures, and history.

P.S. I'm a fan of Star Wars and Final Fantasy, but I really hate fanboys who compare everything to their favorite series or movie.

PhilOsirus
03-29-2006, 02:09 AM
Here is a good interview about FFXII (http://www.ffshrine.org/ffxii/ff12_interview.php)(old but still informative about their inspirations and the ideas they had for the game).

rakmaya
03-29-2006, 05:10 AM
In case many doesn't know, there are characters and alian races phenomena all though out japanese animes for quite long. Even longer in the manga and the weekly/newspaper comics.

It seems that this game involves a lot of different kind of worlds and abviosly it means different kind of races. This is also one of the reasons i liked sw. It shows struggle and unity all around and also why i like some of the games (KOTOR). It is an all new feelings in every level/village, kind of like the Kingdon Hearts without the "cell-shaded" feeling.

It doesn't matter if you think they ripped off the star wars or nor, as long as the game is good enough to enjoy.

Actually, I don't know why a lot of people are obssesed with alien creatures in the game, put a tail to hero it becomes all the same as FF-IX (except for all the story/gameplay and other things which i don't know yet). But i don't remeber people getting so much upset back then though. I enjoyed that game, better than FF-VIII

Shade01
03-29-2006, 07:16 AM
I promised I wouldn't EVER touch another FF game until they quit that random battle bullshit. Is the new FF still like that?

warpy
03-29-2006, 07:32 AM
to tell you the truth i dont know what you are crying about, i just woke up and watching this intro made my morning, i absolutely love it, i dont see any other game company out there that makes this much detailed videos with a beautiful finish, it reminds a bit of starwars but you know what anything with creatures and spaceships can look like it. it also has a lot of magic in it which is in my opinion the best of both worlds, scifi and fantasy :)

JulianHo
03-29-2006, 08:25 AM
I promised I wouldn't EVER touch another FF game until they quit that random battle bullshit. Is the new FF still like that?

I heard that this time all of the creatures are visible on the overworld field, so you can choose to avoid battles. The monsters only start attacking if the player stepped into a "hot zone" of the monsters.

fahr
03-29-2006, 02:56 PM
FF12 has no random battles. In fact, it doesnt even have "battle screens". All the action happens on the same screen. There's no overworld map, no battle screens, the camera is completly controllable. Everything is to scale. Reports from Japan are saying its one of the best FFs ever and even goes as far as reinventing the franchise.

Can't wait for it.

gaiXyn
03-29-2006, 03:56 PM
the ramdom battle set-up didn't bother me too much, I mean sometimes when my HP was low I couldn't stand it, but that just made me more prepared with more potions and what-nots for in case. But being able to see the fiends ahead of time will be a nice thing, I just hope I'll be able to stay in a sweet spot and bring up my EXP points whenever I need too ( you guys know what I'm talking about :) )

CHRiTTeR
03-29-2006, 04:22 PM
I wasnt verry impressed by this intro...

It looks indeed like they copy-pasted some scenes from lotr and sw (even the sounds!). :shrug:
Reusing character models to save time aint a rare thing in CG, but I would've liked it if they added some more variations. It looks like there's no variation between the copies?
Character animation was too stiff/unnatural
And the rendering seemed nice (lighting/shading), only thing is the serious lack of contrast? Looks like a wrong gamma config or something too me. But maybe its the compression?

Anyways, I've seen much better FF-FMV stuff and was a bit 'shocked' by this one's overall lower quality. :)
And the designs, thats just a personal thing, so can't really crit that. But the style they've chosen didnt really bother me.

I got the impression their budget was got cut down for this one ;)

WyattHarris
03-29-2006, 09:11 PM
I've been wanting to see Hidden Fortress ever since Lucas mentioned it in the special features. I love Kurosawa films (Red Beard my fav) and I'd love to find the Star Wars connections.

I watched some of the gameplay footage and it looks like standard fare. Run around, talk to NPCs, loot pots and chests. No random battles! I'm on that. It sounds more and more like it has adopted FFT gameplay features, that sounds good to me. The real accomplishment is the great job they did with PS2 hardware. Some of the player models look very good on that ancient hardware.

Interesting fact that I've read from many different developers. Japanese versions of games are always easier than US versions. Why, because Japanese gamers give up too easy. Wanted to mention that after reading critisism #1 in that article.

PhilOsirus
03-30-2006, 02:03 AM
You haven't read about customizable AI commands it seems (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2591&Itemid=34):)

The Gambit system is, well, probably the most brilliant thing ever to appear in a Japanese role-playing game. With Gambits, you can minutely program your characters' AI using only the two criteria of "target" and "action." You then select which actions will take priority. For example "Cast Cure" as the action, and "Ally with less than 70% HP remaining" as the target could be top priority, and "Attack" "Nearest enemy" could be second priority.

As long as no ally's HP is below 70%, this character will continue attacking the enemies; as soon as a character is in need of healing, they will be healed. If the caster's magic drops to less than the cost of the "Cure" spell, the character will abandon priority number one. You can make priority number three "drink an Ether"; they'll perform this action automatically if there are no enemies to fight. This action will restore the magic points, allowing the character to heal characters (as dictated by priority #1) if needs be.

It's more closer to a strategy games that previous FFs where all you had to do was tap the same button to keep on attacking easy enemies. And this one is apparently more difficult.

umfridus
03-30-2006, 02:25 AM
I don't see which parts of the intro are "copy-and-paste" from LoTR. Also, it's not like the battle scenes from LoTR are that original, and FF12 was conceived before the release of the trilogy anyway.

Squash-n-Stretch
03-30-2006, 12:46 PM
Squash-n-Stretch, if you played FFX-2 then I'd say you are one of the fanboy since that's the last FF game they got, FFXI doesn't really count since it's more like FF Online. And don't make this thread worse with your flamebait.

Was that even English???

From what I derived from that, you accuse anyone who has even played FFX-2 of being a fanboy.
:rolleyes::eek:

What foolishness. And how dare you accuse me of flamebating when I am simply posting my opinion, which I have a right to do? And I thought my post was actually quite un-biased. I should thank you to read the first condition of posting you see every time you do:D



Regarding everyone else...have there been any further releases of FMV from FFXII? I loved the clips from the trailer of the Judges strutting like the pimps that they are...can't wait to see more of them :D

P_T
03-30-2006, 03:13 PM
...but I used to be a hufe Squaresoft fan so I'll throw in my two cents.

I reckon FFVIII is the best game ever made, while FFVII, IX and Vagrant Story are also amazing. But I did hate FFX. The story, characters and world in FFX were nausiating, and they missed a huge oppurtunity with Blitzball. I'm probably the only one in the world that thinks FFX-2 offered more in terms of fun (I accept that :twisted:)

Man... you claim to be an ex-fan but from your statement, I assumed you have played all the games from FF7 to X-2, that's why I said you're still a fanboy not an ex-fanboy like you pretend to be. Not only that, you jumped into the discussion by calling people rude and saying that you're waiting for the furious assault from the fanboy sounded like you're trying to provoke them into flaming you which is what flamebait is to me.

You could read them right? so yes, that was OBVIOUSLY English silly boy.

Squash-n-Stretch
03-31-2006, 12:27 PM
Everything you claim is a presumption. Read the first posting rule and stop trying to start trouble.

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