Game Development.......

[Dave Black]

We appreciete your questions. First off, this is an application specific forum. These questions are more along the "Game Art Design" section of CGtalk. You can find it here:

http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=39

Most of your questions are a bit too vague to really answer. Having not played the game you are refering to, it's hard to explain how it was created. I'm guessing that you are talking about realtime 3D games.

Landscapes and levels are often created not by a modeler but by a level designer. These guys are mighty titans of design. They know exactly where to place every cliff, shrub, hovel, church, and game item. They usually are involved with the story telling and overall game design. In a sense, you(if a content artist) are working for them. If they need something, sometimes you make it. Other times, an entire tileset of textures, models, and tools are created for them to use to make the enviroment.

Most games use different tecniques for creating maps that have a large area. Many companys work with "sectors"(a bunch of contigous game areas, but fragmented at the file level). These files are sometimes swapped in and out seemlessly.

If you are modeling a catherderal, (i'm again, guessing realtime), then special care needs to be taken to optimize the model for the game engine and game you are working on. Most buildings are created with the game engine's own tools, or have strict and precise requirements for the characters to properly interact with them. If you are simply tring to make a building, then build it any way you want. Inside out, outside in, does'nt really matter.

You can create skys and other texture maps with something called a proceduaral map. These maps use complex alorithims called fractals(and other types) to produce pixel information. By mixing them around, you can get many different effects. Consult your software documentation for directions on implementing them. They are great when resolution independance, lack of UVW mapping, and non-tiling are issues.

Distance and depth are often an artifact of the lense of our eyes, or the lense of a camera. Effects such as "Depth of Field", and especially in landscapes where great distance is a factor, the external atmosphere of the surrounding area and climate have a huge effect. Experiment with fog.

Whew.

Ok, that's the best I can do, and my render is now done, so I gotta go. Hope that's of some help. Next time, please try to ask more concise questions and perhaps one at a time. Again, try posting in the proper forum noting the FORUM RULES at the top of each page.

-3DZ

:D

[3D Bandit]

I understand that this thread was posted in the wrong category. I'll be sure to do better next time.

Also, I apologize if I overwhelmed you with questions. I thought creating an involved thread would be more interesting.

Plus, I guess my novice experience with CG would explain the vague issue. The more a work within the field I should pick up the terminology and have a greater idea of how to explain my thoughts to other artist that are looking for details they are familiar with.

I also want to thank you for your response, I've noticed that involved threads seem to get passed up often...or most simply don't want to bother with newbies.... :buttrock:

I've been researching and can't help but notice that 99.9% of gaming companies want at least 2 years of experience within the field and have at least one major package under the wing...3D Max, Maya, or XSI....plus photshop or any related software. This includes level designers...

Also, how are the upcoming artist suppose to get their shot? Obviously we wouldn't meet the 2 year requirement??? I'm going to guess that skill and creativity will open that door for upcoming artist.

In any case, back to game develompment....before you remind me again about content and which forum it belongs....

:)

I've created a project for myself. I'm going to create a gothic like structure (building...ya know) from the floor up. I will be using Max for this. The discipline is to create a high res environment with a low poly count...why?....cause that's what the gaming industry is asking for. I plan on making it intricate and....with secret passage ways and such. My question would be....being that I'm looking to adopt game development discipline, should there be anything I need to know now before I begin? Such as poly count (which I'm already familiar with), and basically anything else that you can tell I don't have a sense for.

Thanks.

[Dave Black]

Ok. I think my advise would be this:

1. Decide now what exactly it is you want to do. Model? Texture? Animate? Concepts? Level Design? etc.

2. Become proficeint in that area.

Remeber that this field is HIGHLY competitive. You have to eat, breath, and sleep this stuff. You have to offer something that few else can.

If you have never modeled a building before, consider your first 10 or 15 buildings PRACTICE. Remeber, and I mean always remeber, that game companies are looking for ARTISTS, not people who can just use MAX, or Maya, or XSI, or LW, etc.

If you are not trained(either from years of personal study, or from a highly competent school), you probably lack the basic foundation to make this carrer work for you. This is not to say that it is impossible to eventually make it, but remember that it's a long road.

Most game companies are now requireing you to pass a test before they will even look at your portfolio. These tests can be very difficult, and require a thorough understanding of process, tecnique, software, and a keen artistic eye.

Your portfolio and demo reel needs to demonstrate your very best work, and it needs to wow them.

That's all I really have time to write today, I'll try to get more up when my deadline is met.

Good to hear from you, BTW. I look forward to continueing this discussion.

-3DZ

:D

[3D Bandit]

I want to both model and create textures....I think this is ideal for an artist? Yes, I am an artist...both creatively and with a pencil. It has been years since I've sketched but now that I'm going to need it again all I have to do is get back in touch with that feel. I'm better than average, so I'm guessing that is a good start. If you want I can e-mail you some of my drawings. Most of my current drawings are not colored cause I'm just brainstorming...spend most of my time correcting my mistakes and re-developing a technique.

I've tried to get into full sail...but no go....need credit.

I've taken it upon myself to pick up the academics required...so....3DS Max and Photoshop is the way to go for me at the moment.

I'm very good at modeling aircraft, spaceships, etc. Now I'm attacking character modeling by one of Paul Steeds methods....and it has helped a great deal. I'm picking up character modeling very fast....I just need to understand the scaling....I don't mean how to scale, I'm in need of the scales that game developers work with.

I've done simple textures, mostly within Max. I've picked up the VIM's over at 3D Buzz and those guys are a wealth of knowledge and help. 3D Buzz has really provided a great platform for newbies and pro's all alike.

I'm looking for a publication that covers advance texture creation. Anything would do. The more I hear about how complex and artistic texturing can be, the more I believe that there should be someone trying to sell you something on such an in depth field. :)

I'll be on line soon again.....until then.....get that dead line done and enjoy yourself. I look forward to your response.

:buttrock:

[Arxangel]

I've been in the game industry a few years now, and what you said 3DZealot conveys exactly how the industry is. Good luck there 3D Bandit.

www.arxangel.net (http://www.arxangel.net)

[Dave Black]

Well I'm glad some of what I said made sense. :D

Arxangel, had alook at your site...VERY impressive work.

In fact, 3D Bandit, you need to go there and look through his work. This is your competition. Now, he's obviously very talented, and has worked very hard to get where he is...I'd say trying to be like him would be setting the bar a bit too high...But...always look to people like Arxangel for where you need to be.

I'd also suggest hanging out in the Game Art forum. Alot of talent there. Start posting your work, getting crits, inspiration, etc.

One other note. The games industry is not for the weak hearted. It's difficult: lots of brutal deadlines, little sleep, little time for a life outside of work, constant crits, constant study to improve yourself, constant study to learn new tools and tecniques. It's a hard road. Sometimes not very rewarding, other times amazing. Remeber that it's not what you see in these forums. You usually have little creative freedom on the projects, and the work can sometimes be tedious, boring, and downright depressing.

Just a note of caution. I don't want to discourage you, but I want to make sure you know what you are getting into.

Until later

-3DZ

:D

[Arxangel]

wow thanks 3DZealot

I come here and try to get myself inspired to do some high poly work. I use max alot at work and home. I see alot of really awesome work here, I'am hoping to get to the point of high level modeling one day. I'am trying to figure out NURBS and Patch modeling. I am having a hard time getting used to thinking differently regarding modeling higher detail. If there is anything I can do to help 3D Bandit with game development please feel free to ask.

Arxangel

www.arxangel.net (http://www.arxangel.net)

[3D Bandit]

Thanks.....

I will have a ton of questions.....First I'm going to follow through on my project and list them as I go along.

Also, you have a great sight... :buttrock:

I'll be soon posting some of my work......

[Dave Black]

Well this certainly is becoming a good thread.

First off, Arxangel, it's great that you are trying to learn high poly stuff. That's all I do, high poly is easy, you low poly guys are like crazy wizards to me...

Oh yeah, and please, for the love of god, learn SUB-D first. I can't say enough good things about the tecnique. Patchs are a huge headache, and nurbs...well...let's leave nurbs to Maya. :D

I hope we can answer your questions, 3D Bandit. I'm a Max user, and have been for many years. If you have any specific software questions, just ask. It looks like Mr. Arxangel is willing to lend is ample knoledge about the games industry, and I can't wait to hear his perspective.

Look forward to hearing from you both.

-3DZ

:D

[BiTMAP]

uhh I havn't read this all so forgive me if this isn't right, But Levels are often not made in 3dstudio max, most games that allow modding have a released level editor, those that don't have an unreleased editor platform....

[Dave Black]

Yeah, you are right to some degree. Many game companies create complex and powerful game editors. Tools for the artists, games designers, etc. These tools are made by the programmers, who consult with the lead artists, game development leads, writers, etc. Most levels, and even some models(like buildings and some in game items) are made with these editors.

But, then, on the other hand, many developers still use Max(or of course any other package) to create the levels. Most of the time, the method of creation varies from game type to game type. Obviously, RTSs, and RPG style game designs lend themselves to a game editor, but many racing games, FPSs and of course adventure games are sometimes easier with max.

Again, though, I'd still like to bring up this one point:

Refine, develope, train, and advance your artistic eye. Learn all the tools you can, but become the best artist you can. Tools don't matter(almost always).

You can always train someone to use a tool, but you can't invest the time to train someone to become a good artist...some never can.

Just some more thoughts.

-3DZ

:D

[Arxangel]

okay where can I get books or tutorials on sub-d surfaces?

Thanks again, have a great holiday

[Stygian]

This is a great thread guys I've really enjoyed reading it. I love for you to continue your conversation I'm learning just reading it.
:love:

[Dave Black]

Stygian: I'm really glad this is of some use to you!

Arxangel: There are alot of tutorials out there. The best I've found are the timelapse videos by Bay Raitt, and Martin Krol. I'm trying to contact them to host their videos on my site, as most of their stuff is gone due to bandwidth limitations.

I'd start by going to the modeling forum and having a look at the sticky modeling tutorials thread. Lots of great stuff there, and it should help alot. Go here to get meshtools, an amazing and free set of scripts for max that really make it work like nendo and miriah:

www.scriptspot.com

I'll be back to post more stuff later. If anyone is reading this thread and has something to add, please, by all means, do so.

-3DZ

:D

[kydjester]

Concerning your internet connection you can use juno it's free

http://www.juno.com

[3D Bandit]

Tutorials: Be sure to grab anything that has Paul Steed's name on it. He makes everything very clear and is loyal to Newbies of all kinds. Oh yeah, he also knows what he's doing...:)

My modeling techniques have improved a great deal since I first picked up Max. Though I haven't tried it yet, I can tell that I would be ready for cartoon characters. My concept art has picked up a great deal...I knew that wouldn't take long to do....I always had talent with a pencil and paper; dating back to my childhood when I sketched from comic books such as Spider-Man, The Hulk, Pitt, Spawn and so on.

Modeling Low Poly characters is becoming simple for me. Creating objects of any kind by using Max's primitives is working out great! I can make some great looking aircrafts out of a single box...when I work with more than one primitive my art becomes incredible. However, I still have to learn how to create and apply my materials so these same images can be awe inspiring.

If any one of you guys have a project that I can influence, please, feel free to ask...it would be my pleasure.

I'm going to cut it short today but I will post tomorrow, I have a few things to share with you guys.

[Dave Black]

Good to see you back!

Look forward to whatever it is you feel like showing us.

-3DZ

:D

[spiraloid]

my original timelapse had to be moved because the CGchannel did a direct link. you can still find it at:

http://cube.phlatt.net/home/spiraloid/movies/bayPlayMirai.avi

[jadedchron]

hey you mentioned picking an area (lighting, modeling, texturing etc). isn't there a brinking point where modeling kinda dives off? meaning once you know so many things after that isn't it just your approach and ability to make it look good? someone approaching 3d for the first time - should they pick an area and go extreme with it? are there simply JUST modellers in the industry? id like to be a proficient modeler but i don't think i'd do it for the gaming industry.. maybe the cinematics or something like that. any thoughts.. nice thread btw.

ahh i remember that video. was that you spiral?

[Dave Black]

I'm just shocked.

Bay Raitt is probably the most famous 3D artist of all time. I can't believe there is response from him here...Simply amazing...

Looks like WETA gave him a few minutes to post on CGTalk.

sniff...sniff...

I just can't believe it....

I just can't....

Hehe.

Good to see you around these parts, Spiraloid, and thanks so much for the link!

jadedchron:

Yes, there are dedicated modelers in the industry. I think it's a good idea to learn how to do everything, and then hone in on what to are best at and really take time to develope it.

If you really want to know about this stuff, ask spiraloid...He works for WETA.
:D
-3DZ

[jadedchron]

heh i don't know much about WETA, but i'm pretty sure he wouldn't want a newb asking him a million questions :D

[Dave Black]

Just so you know, WETA did Lord of the Rings.

In fact, if the scuttlebutt is correct, Mr. Raitt had a major role in creating and/or animating the character Golem.

:D

-3DZ

:D

[jadedchron]

damn, that puts a new perspective on things.. and enforces what i said in the last post even further. :surprised

[Teckniel]

You can always train someone to use a tool, but you can't invest the time to train someone to become a good artist...some never can.

I dont agree with every 1 can become a good artist its just a matter of training i think

like me for example I have started with the version 2.0 of max
and i have never learnd anything to model why you would ask


cause i never try to make somthing and practice!!

when i found this forum i start to get a grip on things.

i get a the grip on sub-d modeling and whats its all about
what you have to look for

but i think i have a problem here it comsi start looking @ thing in wire mode when i want to model things or just try to understand it how to model

like a few days ago i have seen a nice vid on modeling a car with sub do and if your looking to a few tims it starts to get logical how to build how coms give me a explenation :-)


I have had a time i would turn my back to 3d cause after all those years i have never learnd anything but is was all my own fould it the thing i have build where never good i was never proud on my work but now i have model a machine gun and some people i know wanted it as a wallpaper and then i was gitting insperation for a logo so i also made 1

i'm gonne quit talking over it i just hope the beginner read this and hope there get a :lightbulb of what i'm telling!!!

THERE IS ONLY 1 PERSON THAT CAN LET YOU STOP BE A ARTIST AND DONT GET THE EYE OF IT AND THAT IS YOURSELF

I HAVE HAD IT AND I HAVE DEFEATED IT AND WHEN YOUR IN IT ITS A VERY HARD TIME SO ALL THE NOOBS OUT THERE CEEP LEARING

EVEN FOR GETTING A JOB !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[3D Bandit]

What's up?...

I know I was suppose to reply with some work of mine, but I've been caught up. I'm going to post some concept art that I scribbled together once upon a time....;)

The art represents me brainstorming...

I should be posting some time after 5 tonight.....

Like, for real this time......:thumbsup:

[Dave Black]

Well, I don't know if you guys up in NY are like us down in Baltimore, but if you are still using that library computer...You may need stilts to get there...Snow much?! LOL.

We got 24 inches.

Glad to see you back...Look forward to seeing your stuff.

-3DZ

:D

[jadedchron]

yeah dude.. wth . it's like a global freezin' or something. buttloads of snow here. BUTTLOADS!!!!! :D

[3D Bandit]

Yeah.....loads of Snow here....like you wouldn't imagine.....come to think about it, I probably couldn't even create a CG cut scene with the same amount of snow....probably wouldn't be enough memory for the size of the scene....:)


Here's some images.....

I'm searching for some space crafts I've be working on.....

[3D Bandit]

Damn....how can I upload multiple files within one thread.....:hmm:

[3D Bandit]

#2

[Dave Black]

Damn. That IS good.

Was that copied(not traced) from a comic, or did you just draw that from your head? It's pretty damn good.

Look forward to seeing more 3dbandit!

BTW, where in the heck are you from jadedchron?

-3DZ

:D

[3D Bandit]

Thanks.....

I'm from Brooklyn NY.....

[3D Bandit]

ooopppsss......

The sketches were from my head......

[MrHappyPants]

i like your sketches.. youve got an excellent headstart in the industry if you can translate that 2d knowledge into 3d lowpoly.. ALOT of game artists have only average artistic ability... and it shows in their models/textures. theyve managed to land jobs because they have a basic knowledge of proportions and anatomy. that combined with knowledge of game design techniques will get you in the door at alot of companys. You do have to eat, and sleep, art though... its getting more competitive all the time and its just a matter of a few years before the techniques are so easy to learn that every kid in highschool who can draw decent dragons on his notebook will be able to make gameart. its the art that takes FOREVER to learn.. and if you dont have a passion for drawing/sculpting then you wont make it. some guys just seem to have a natural affinity for anatomy and proportions.. it doesnt take them long to translate what they see to their paper and 3d program.

im sure youll have a job in the industry very soon if you bust #&@ on your industry knowledge..

check out these websites for a mix of gameartists.. concept artists.. animators etc.

the first 2 are great examples of top knotch lowpoly game characters

the 3rd and 4th are excellent concept artists

http://www.bobotheseal.com/
http://www.tylersart.com/
http://www.artbyfeng.com/
http://www.hawkprey.com/
http://www.joachimart.com/
http://www.studiodimensions.com/kelsey/
http://www.drawthrough.com/sketches/index.html
http://anim8r.homestead.com/onlineportfolio.html

[jadedchron]

i'm livin' in virginia right now :\ hopefully cleveland by the mid of next month! (or sooner)

its just a matter of a few years before the techniques are so easy to learn that every kid in highschool who can draw decent dragons on his notebook will be able to make gameart.

hehe history proves that to be wrong. people are still trying to master the technique of drawing. knowledge is power and it'll teach you technique, but style and consistency are a hard thing to maintain. i do agree in a sense that the bar will be raised. however, it'll only be balanced by everything else.

thanks for the resourceful links :thumbsup:

[MrHappyPants]

the point i was trying to make is that learning a 3D/2D program is a piece of cake compared to the years and years of study and practice it takes to become a skilled artist. If a skilled "artist" wants to get into the games industry it can take a few months to a year of learning software/industry techniques and he can be qualified for a job. If a "non artist" wants to get a game job.. GOOD LUCK! he will be at least 2-5 years away from getting a job and even then will most likely be a low level grunt artist. its now more then ever about your art skills.

[jadedchron]

yerp.

[3D Bandit]

The links were awesome...THANKS....

Education is instrumental when understanding art...but, lets not forget creativity is a MUST in order to create art. I've seen textures bring a scene together so dramatically it looked so much better than the sketch itself....but, there's a flipside to that coin....I've also seen sketched art that seemed almost impossible to recreate on a CG platform in order to keep the same impact of the artist skill and image.

So, I agree....emotion plays an instrumental part in art.

Personally, I'm aching to get into the game industry for starters simply to satisfy a desire of mine that dates back to my snot nose days. I ultimately want to get into movies at any level....whether Holywood or Anime. I have to much in my head that needs to be a part of the society that we mare a part of....ya know....

I tried putting a team together....boy, did that go bad. Working with programmers and writers was a pain in the @ss. If I decide to do the same thing again I'll put together a team of artist alone...we think alike.

I was working on this game and it just went sour. I think next time around I can introduce the idea of creatingthe ideas, world, characters and such for the game....then pitching it to gaming companies. Does that sound like a good way to get in? I'm thinking it allows us to work on the game we created while their corporate resources provides production???

Which brings up another question?

If that worked, would we get a percentage of sales or a salary?....

You know I"m voting for percentage...... :buttrock:

[Xylemman]

wooow this tread is good. thanks for u guys i ve learn a lot. yes i really want to get into the game industry too. i agree with u people about artistic skill. anyone can learn how to use 3d software but to create an awesome stuff they need an artistic skill. i ve been working really hard on drawing and the great feeling is now i can put down my idea on to the paper. im not a skilled artist yet but i try real hard to be.

3d bandit, im trying hard to put a team together too. but yes it is still a long way to go. i want to b a game directer and i know how hard it is to become one. i want to expand the limitation of the game and yes i ve been working a lot on my idea too. if anyone have any commend on what im planning to do i will be glad to hear it too.:D

thanks
sorry for some grammar mistake

[3D Bandit]

Welcome to the thread Xylemman....

Where you from Xyle?

I'm soon going to be puttiing a website together, actually, most of it is already built. I'm just looking for a good price for about 200+ megs of web space.....anyone have some suggestions?

Zealot....Where you at?......:buttrock:

[Asorson]

3d Bandit:

On top of improving your own skills there are other obstacles that stand in your way of working in game development.

When you finally get together a decent portfolio and start applying to companies it is most likely you will be rejected on the basis of "not enough experience" quite often. This can be frustrating, after all how can one gain experience if experience is needed to land work?

Don't worry though because what they say is not entirely the truth. Most often when a company tells you "you don't have enough experience" it is a generic and guilt free let down line. Just like when a girl is not interested in dating you and she says "We should just be friends". The fact is, in both of these situations you should not take what is said literally. The underlying message in both of these situations is simple: "You are not good enough".

Don't allow yourself to believe that you will never succeed because of your lack of work experience. Everyone who has a job doing anything started doing that job at one time when they did not have any experience. I know many artists who work in the game industry who have no formal education. And no-one was born with experience.

This leads me to the second biggest obstacle in your way. Distraction. And in my opinion the biggest and most harmfull distraction to an aspiring game artist are the hundres and thousand of independant "teams" of people, who collectively have never spend a minute inside a studio, who believe they are going to: 1)Develop a game 2)Show it to publishers 3)Get funded 4)Live happily ever after. Of course during the initial development stages they will ask you to work for free. These people will prey on your "lack of experience" and try to use experience as currency.

Take my word for it, these "projects" are a bad deal. Never work for free. If I posted on here asking for someone to come and mow my lawn for free how many responses would I get? How about if I offered "lawn mowing experience"?

So just to recap:

Step 1: Get good
Step 2: Don't fall victim to the "don't have experience" line, keep improving your skills because that's what will get you a job
Step 3: Don't waste your time on projects that have no future, you are better off working on your own portfolio

Glossary:

Project with no future:

-Any game where the entire team has no prior professional game development experience
-Any game that offers work experience, or royalties as compensation
-Any game whos team members are reffered to by internet aliases and not real names
-Any game whos team members consist entirely of teenagers

[Dave Black]

Erik Asorson:

Brother, I could'nt have said it better myself.

:love:


Bandit:

...He's right. I know it sucks, but that's the nature of the beast.

Work hard honing your own skills. Work for your own portfolio. Draw like a mofo.

Practice all you can, whenever you can.

It could very well take years of work. Plan for this. I'm not saying that working on a mod, or trying to develop a game is a bad idea, but it really won't help you get a job. I know, I know, people have done it that way in the past, but that's like winning the lotto.

Just my opinion.

-3DZ

:D

[MrHappyPants]

eric asorson is absolutely right!

I entered the industry with little to no actual experience.. I busted me $*# drawing the figure from life 20hrs a week and modelling/texturing the rest of the time for 2 years until my skills were adequate. I still sucked compared to the veterans but I was able to get a job because the lead artist interviewing me was impressed by my skills. That and he knew i would work for less then a veteran. It doesnt matter if every studio says 2-3 years experience required.. what there saying is be good enough or dont waste your time applying. exactly the same as erics comment about the girl saying lets be friends.

i also had an internship before entering the industry which was a waste of time. If you dont know game techniques then an internship can be a good deal. however this one didnt pay anything and they wanted me to work 40hrs a week! It was crazy but i thought it would help because it was for a very respected studio.. I wont name names because theyve since dismantled that internship farm. they had 2 complete teams of newbie artists working 40hr weeks no-pay on deer hunter games! man that was a mistake.. I had no one to learn from. I just made content that wasnt useful for my portfolio and left. Any internship or team you join should pay you minimum wage. Also every hour or 2 you spend creating content you should get an hour of either critique and or instruction. If you choose to work for free it can be a stepping stone to getting a great job but like eric said its like winning the lottery.

work for yourself and yourself only.. that questoin you asked about getting a team together and getting a title published is a fairy tale. publishers are INSANE.. they do NOT care about art/games/dev teams.. they care about what their focus groups say will sell.. and if a previous game as sold well then they rip it off. they would never pay a team with no experience to develop a title.. top name dev studios have to fight/beg/bribe publishers to fund their titles and they already have tons of funding through venture capital.

just Lock yourself in your bedroom and keep creating content until it looks like it fits in a AAA game. With these forums on the web you have NO excuse to not know industry techniques.. there is too much info out there these days. When i started 4-5 years ago there wasnt any real help.. even the school i went to didnt really know how to teach game development... i dont think they really know now. If a teacher is good enough to be in the industry he probably doesnt have time to teach.

thats the way to get in the industry... art directors will beat down your door if you have skills.. theyll find YOU!

[jadedchron]

good thread :D

[3D Bandit]

I agree....

I believe working on your abilities before anything else is the way to go. However, I also believe working and learning amongst your peers is extremely useful. In any case, I'm the type of person that is very capable of being a loner in order to get in the door. Although I must admit being amongst your peers working on something larger than the norm is very entycing. I believe if you have the right individuals with the drive and professional attitude everything we talked about can become a reality.

You couldn't be more right Erik....Trust me....

I've learned that game development is extremely detailed and carries a great deal of depth. That's why I'm only focusing on honing my natural talent......Art. Since I was a kid I could always draw. I remember being 5 years old and could sketch a Todd Mcfarlane drawing of Spider-Man down to an exact copy. The only way I could prove it wasn't traced was by making sure each sketch was at least twice the size of the original.

The downfall was that I got distracted (long story) when I was a teen and put down art for more than a decade. When I decided to pursue game developing my artistic skill made it easier to over look certain obstacles I was concerned with....example....starting later than most. I'm 27 with nothing on paper that says I can do what I do....I just can do it. I first taught myself how to build and maintain computers for obvious reasons....mainly cost. I then tackled on the subject of which package should I focus on. I was first attracted to Lightwave (and still believe that package is the best deal for the price) for several reasons. One; it seemed like it produced the best looking images I've ever had the pleasure to witness...plus....it is very economical. The learning curve didn't seem steep (but nothing really seems hard to learn to me) and I simply liked the interface. However, I would later learn that Max runs the gaming industry....so....here I am.....Maxing it out. I like Max a great deal to. Learning Max has been fun and easy to learn. The 3rd reality was Maya. I kept hearing how much better it is than the rest and how it's the professionals tool. I played with Maya and read up on it a great deal. I learned that Alias/Wavefront has made it their business ti make Maya self-reliant....and I love that. The idea of purchasing a product that intends to provide all your production needs is how I like it. I find that Lightwave and Maya can always use a plugin. But, for game development Max alone is just fine....I don't know enough about Lightwave to comment on that same equasion.

Even later I learned about XSI. How? Simple....I looked at who's using it....Lucas Arts. I saw the type of production and said...yup, that's the real deal as well.

In any case, I figured Max first than the rest could follow if or when needed. I would eventually would like to get into Anime and/or Movie production.....but one step at a time.

Don't you think.....?

[konst]

I read thrught the hole thread (it took a while) and it is great!!:thumbsup: I have learn alot....please proceed.

And thanks for the links...great artists.

[Xylemman]

thanks erik,
the only thing to get into the the industry is to proof how good u r and what u can do. im currently studying in the university in uk(computer game design). im in the first year and what i feel is the school process is very slow, im rarely learn anything from the school. so i decide that i ll not depend on the teacher anymore. i sneak into every lecture which i think it is good(first, second and third years) and then i will leave the uni next year. certificate is not important the important is what u can do, am i right? next year i will go the japan and learn what the hell i think it is important (sure, mostly drawing). i have a lot of ideas in term of game and i want to expand the limitation of game. i working my way to become a game director. i just turn 18 last month so i believe that i still have time. i want someone in the industry to give me an advise on what im missing and i want them to know me. well that is what im planning to do so far. please give me any comment i will be glad to hear them. thanks:D

[MK2]

These guys are mighty titans of design. They know exactly where to place every cliff, shrub, hovel, church, and game item.

LOL

Level Designers have to make themself important somehow.
Because if they dont... well they have no job anymore.
If i look at all the MODs out there... there are two possibilities... nearlly every MODer is a highly skilled LD or everyone can do it with a bit of creativity.

Nope, i dont belive that LD are better Designers than anyone else but someone has to click levels together.
It could be very intressting if artists beginn to build complete levels. It could be even more intressting if architects build the Houses and Indoor-Stuff.

I think UT2003 made a step in the right direction... take away all the modeling tools from the LDs, let the artist make all the parts to fill the level...

Well... thats my opinion.

Cheers

mk

[3D Bandit]

OK....

Back to Game Development and technique.

Zealot, I have an overwhelming amount of questions for you but I remeber how you wanted to keep it at a singular pace....:)

So....

My approach will be to build most of the complex with individual models then attaching them along the way so to create a single complex. Is this ideal?

Oh yeah.....

Can I ask more than one question.....:buttrock:

Also, I'm posting a mesh of a spacecraft I'm also working on....

Download and tell me what you think.....

[3D Bandit]

#2

[3D Bandit]

#3

[MrHappyPants]

post wires or a faceted shot please!

to be honest the design is ok but it looks VERY hi poly for games.. spaceships are not really a good idea to put in reels either.. anyone can do spaceships. if you are a SKILLED designer then its ok to design spaceships but your better off sticking to either real world vehicles or characters.. that way art directors can tell if your able to copy thier designs they give you.

one more thing.. alot of new artists try and "design" their pieces for thier reel.. and this is really a common thing to do. however if your not strong in design then your shooting yourself in the foot. id pick existing designs and create models that exact copies. then create your own designs for your reel. if "your" designs arent up to par with the copies then ditch em.. nothing wrong with using established designs for your reel.

[3D Bandit]

OK....I'll also add that to the arsenal.....

:buttrock:

In that case....I'll get some reference images tonight....have any suggestions?

[MrHappyPants]

id pick something of this guys site.. just remember to give him credit for the conceptual design.. here is his quote about using his work from the site

Q: Can i model your designs in 3D?

A: Yes; if you are using it for personal projects. I don't own the copyrights to some of the
designs on my site. Thus if you use them for profit reasons, you'll get in trouble with those
companies. Copyright violation fines are very expensive. And please give me the due credit
if you use any of my images. Thanks.

http://www.artbyfeng.com/

good luck and post your work!

:beer:

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