Woman Head in progress. Need help please :D

[Dave Black]

There really is'nt a tutorial for modeling well. Study anatomy, draw, draw, draw. Learn the proper proportions of the head. Learn the canon.

As for the model, it's not too bad. Aside from the anatomical errors, it has obvious problems structurally. You poly count is far higher than needed. I'd say it's safe to guess that some of your frustration stems from this. It's difficult to tweak and make adjustments when there are so many polys. Your edgeloops are not quite in the right place, and there are alot of triangles and non-quad faces. You need to clean them up.

Try going here, and read the entire contents of the site, including studying the heads...

http://coldfusion.art.msstate.edu/camenisch/thehumanhead/home.html

But hey, it's not that bad, and I think you have it in you to make what you have in your brain come out in 3d.

Unfortunaly, for this model, I think you may have to start over. But then, that's just my opinion.

Keep at it, always, and remember to study and draw the head as much as possible.

-3DZ

:D

[DDrake]

Hey, thanks... i was going to upload the update and i saw your response. I´ll take a look at that web page. About the amount of polys, i supposed that :D Right now i´m cleaning up the mesh so i can work better.

Thanks a lot for your comments, after hours sitting here moving vertex is good to hear that something is going on the right way :D

[Dave Black]

Rock on. It always helps us here on the crits forums to have othographic views. 3/4 views don't give us enough info. If fact, I'll jump way out on the honesty limb and say I think we all like to post our character's "best angle". It's naturel to want to present the best shot you can, but since this is a WIP section, I would'nt be too shy to show us her uglyness. ;)

The problem areas that jump out at me are common to most modelers with their first human head. The lips look stuck on. This can be fixed by adding a slight chamfer to the edges that outline them. Try thinking about lips as being where the skin of the face folds into the mouth. Sometimes our conceptions of how things are, are not what is.

The other area that I see as a problem is the nose. The transition from the nose geometry to the face needs to be softened. The nose it's self is not really realistic, but more cartoony...(Like Danger Girl).

You mentioned that you are working without reference. I would wager to say that all the amazing head modelers here at Cgtalk use reference when modeling. The head(especially the female head) is a very difficult thing to create(as you have noticed). Reference does'nt have to be a famous actor. You simply need something to remind you of what is real.

Keep at it, man...keep at it.

BTW, I bashed myself into the directory you posted that pic on, and I must say, most of your models are really nice!

:airguitar

-3DZ

[DDrake]

Hey 3DZealot, thanks for your comments and tips, you are being very usefull for me :D I have taken some "ugly" renders to get best crits :D It is the same model as the previous image, i´m working right now on the nose and stuff. Still reading the webpage you told me :D It is being really helpfull.

I´m glad you like my other works, but those are renders and stuff for forums . I think i´ll try to post something on the Finished Works forum :D I have been browsing the forums for a while and i have found really impressive stuff here. I think i´ll have to come more frecuently :D

Here is the Image (http://www.asidesoft.com/foro/headortho.jpg)

THANKS!

PD: Excuse me for any mistake on my english...:D :buttrock:

[Dave Black]

There we go! Much easier to see the flaws. But through our mistakes, we make great strides...

I wish I could show you the first head I ever tried to do...Oh dear god...scary stuff. :blush:

I think I really started making (pardon the pun)headway when I removed myself from the subject matter. That is, forced myself to forget everything I knew(or thought I knew) about anatomy. This is why I continue to challange you to keep with it, because eventually, you will get to were all the awsome modelers are.

You have a handle on the basics...That is to say, it's obvious you are getting skilled with it. A little more time and you will be there. I'm not offering many specific crits as I think you will know what's wrong as your artistic eye progresses. Normally, I'd say a bunch of things, but the human head is an amazingly complex and subtle structure. It's not so much the geometry, as the relationship between features. These things can only come from practice and study.

My advise, and take it with a grain of salt, is to take a break from it. Staring at the same model all day, and moving around verts for hours can make us not be able to see our flaws and inevitably leads to frustration. File the model away and try somwthing else for awhile. Look at all the other modelers on the forum. Study anatomy. When you come back to it, you will be better off, refreshed, and have your eyes opened.

Now, of course, doing so is a luxury, if it's for work, let me know, and I'll try to find a poop load of good reference for you.

Wow, that was long, sorry...

BTW, your english reads fine to me!

KEEP IT UP!!!

-3DZ

:D

[DDrake]

Well, putting the head apart for a while would quit me from sleeping at nights :D I know i need a break, but it is part of a female model i´m doing, so, if the head is not finished, the model nor is. The model is for my personal portfolio, I will skin it and animate it. I´d like to create a cool piece for my portfolio :D

Here is the model:
http://www.asidesoft.com/foro/hawkmom3.jpg

I understand that moving and moving vertex during hours is not the correct (nor the fastest) way to accomplish a good modelled head, so right now i´m investing time studying how this stuff works. Hey, you have helped me a lot :D Honestly thanks.

cya

[Dave Black]

Wow, dude, that model is awsome!! Good job!

Yeah, I can see why you would want to get that head done...Wow.

Yeah, that will be a great portfolio piece.

I'm glad I could help a bit. It's difficult to come across properly in words, and I hope I did'nt offend you.

I guess I have been exactly where you are, and I remember being in such a dispair about it. I thought I'd never get it, or that I just did'nt have it in me. But now, I got past it...and hell...it feels pretty freak'n good. I have'nt arrived, but then, noone has...Always getting better....always...Oh yeah, and keep your models to see how you've progressed over time...it's fun AND embarrassing! :D

I look forward to your future posts...Can't wait to see where you go with this model.

Good luck!!!

KEEP AT IT!!!

-3DZ

:D

[DDrake]

Hi again!

After some hours of studying and moving vertex much more accurately, i have done something much more near to what i was looking for, yes yes, i know there is much more to work, but i´m on the way :D I have been working the edgeloops, and i think now they are much more clean. Also, i have reduced the polycount so i can work better. It would be cool to have a reference photograph of a woman head without the hair, I haven´t worked too much on the back of the head, but i think i will need references, now, it looks to me very big.

The image is big, so i´m posting a link :

Here is the Image (286Kb) (http://www.asidesoft.com/foro/headwomanWIP.jpg)

PD: Ey 3DZealot, you have helped me much more than a bit :D Thannnnkkkss!!

[Dave Black]

That is MUCH better! Really starting to take form.

The distance between the bottom of the nose, and the top of the upper lip seems too far. Try moving the lips and chin up a bit. If you put your finger on that little ridgy thing between your nose and mouth, and slide it up and down, you can feel the distance. Try to put that in the model. If that makes and sense.

Anyway, Major improvement. It's starting to look like it deserves to be connected to that body. :D

:buttrock: :buttrock:

-3DZ

:D

[Remi]

The only crit I have for you is that she looks stoned....i don't think eye's are that red are they.....looking better model wise though.....great job...:thumbsup:

[DDrake]

Hi!

Another update :)

I´m having tons of troubles on the lips, specially with that tiny line over the upper lipm you know, that one which defines the shape.

I have added some make up for the eyes for viewing pleasure :D Just faces painted. A bit flat, but for me does the job until a skin comes.

I think for my model it should be almost done, but i think i´ll work much more on it for learning pleasure :)
Ican´t find any reference photo of a front-side girls without hair on his head. Anyone has something which could help me? The skull still seems too much big for me...

Thanks for your comments!!!

[Dave Black]

Looking much better, Dude!

Here's a little piece of advice that I wish someone would have told me early on.

Do reaserch on the "Canon of the Human Head".

It's just a bunch of relationships between features. If you have that, you don't need perfect reference.

It's stuff like:

There is an eye's width between the eyes, and and eye's width between the outside of the eye and the outside of the skull.

The head is divided into 3 equal parts, with the eyes in the middle.

There are tons of them, but you can see that if you just line all the features up in relation each other, you will be almost perfect. :D

Most anatomy books that talk about the head have some drawing of these relationships. I'm sure there are on the internet as well.

And I hear you about the lips. I think they are the most subtle structure of the face. That little chamfer is a bitch!

Good luck, and man, you have come along way in a FEW DAYS!

Awsome.

:airguitar

Keep at it...It's just getting better!

-3DZ

:D

[DDrake]

another quick update of the head with the body. It is not welded yet.

I think the head fits well for what i was looking for. Later, i´ll work much more on a closer face :D For now, it does the job.

I´ll keep up posting updates :D

Cya!

http://www.asidesoft.com/foro/bodyhead.jpg

PD: Sorry for those crappy wireframed shots... :P

[NelsonInomvan]

Damn she's ugly but nice work :thumbsup:

[DDrake]

hi 3DZealot!

I know what you are refering with the relationships between features you told, right now i´m looking for some resources on internet :D But first, i want to finishe the full body... i have had much fun working on the head, but i need a break doing weapons and those kind of stuff, you know :D

Thanks for all!

[Dave Black]

Gotcha...Disengaging crit mode. :D

Hope you have fun with weapons and stuff...That's the best part...like that last bite of an icecream cone...mmmmm...weapons...

:beer:

ENJOY!!!

Oh yeah...and you better be nice and post those weapons as you make em...I promise I won't say a word... ;)


-3DZ

:D

[raelbr]

Try to to make her nose thinner.... she will be more beaultifulll hehehehhe......

wanna see her with hair :D

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