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laureato di arte
03-14-2006, 08:04 PM
Quote:
"Sony will put off the release of its much awaited PlayStation 3 console until November from its planned spring debut because of delays in finalizing its next-generation optical disc technology, the company said Wednesday.

Ken Kutaragi, the head Sony's video games division, made the announcement at a hastily called news conference after reports of the delay surfaced in the business daily Nihon Keizai Shimbun and other papers."


>>LINK<< (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060315/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_sony)

-R

LEGACY POST:

dont shoot the messenger......

http://1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3148763

Sony Delays PlayStation 3
Blu-ray forcing the machine into hiding until November.
by Patrick Klepek, 03/14/2006
18 of 19 users recommend this story.
Sony has been anything but talkative these past few months regarding their plans for PlayStation 3. No one except Sony seemed to anticipate they'd continue to meet their projected spring release date in any territory, even Japan.

Today, Sony officially conceded defeat to the recent flurry of rumors and speculation, with Japanese newspaper Nihon Keizai Shimbun reporting the machine has been pushed back until November.

There aren't many details out right now, but Sony says issues over the finalization of copy protection technology related to their Blu-ray disc drive is the cause of the delay.

As the news is coming out of Japan, that creates a worrisome scenario for America and Europe. There were already rumblings Sony wouldn't be able to launch in all territories before the end of the year, but missing out on the Christmas season over here could prove a deadly blow to Sony's next-generation plans.

Somewhere in Microsoft's offices, Bill Gates just opened a bottle of champagne. With more details expected at tomorrow's PlayStation conference and the Game Developers Conference just around the corner, it appears the flood gates (for good or ill) are about to be unleashed.

LoTekK
03-14-2006, 08:12 PM
Wasn't this mentioned here some days ago?

RobertoOrtiz
03-14-2006, 08:13 PM
I KNEW IT!
Depending on Blue ray for the disks was something suicidal for them.

And here is the thing, how much the PS3 will cost? After all I dont believe that most
Blue Ray players will be under the $300.00 mark.

-R

laureato di arte
03-14-2006, 08:16 PM
Wasn't this mentioned here some days ago?

Yea it was mentioned in two seperate threads. apparantly this time it is really official though.

Boxsmiley
03-14-2006, 08:16 PM
That's ok, I was gonna purchase one when the system dropped in price, and the games are a bit more aged like wine, you know because they get better!



But until then i will entertain myself with the Revolution.

LoTekK
03-14-2006, 08:23 PM
Yea it was mentioned in two seperate threads. apparantly this time it is really official though.
Ah, my bad. Didn't realize it hadn't been official news til now.

That said, I'm with Boxsmiley. I'm gonna get me a Revolution. :)

laureato di arte
03-14-2006, 08:31 PM
Ah, my bad. Didn't realize it hadn't been official news til now.

That said, I'm with Boxsmiley. I'm gonna get me a Revolution. :)

revo was definatley on my list. i was going to get me a 360 earlier this year and then i ended up being broke, plus im saving money for a car very soon. Its all good anyway, when is mgs due out anyway? you recko it will be a launch release?

Dr. Nick
03-14-2006, 09:17 PM
This was to be expected but tomorrow will be the day that we should find out other interesting tid bits concerning the PS3. So while some might find this news to be bad, tomorrows meeting might have things to that will make the wait a little bit more tolerable. New rumors is that they were only talking about Japan and that the US might get it a month earlier but this is only a rumor.

Closlight
03-14-2006, 09:31 PM
I KNEW IT!
Depending on Blue ray for the disks was something suicidal for them.

And here is the thing, how much the PS3 will cost? After all I dont believe that most
Blue Ray players will be under the $300.00 mark.

-R

I don't know how reliable this source is, but according to this article there is a rumor that the PS3 will cost $800...ahhhhhh, let the rumor mill start churning hehe.

LINK: http://www.twitchguru.com/2006/03/13/monday_morning_rundown/

Sonk
03-14-2006, 09:32 PM
Yea it was mentioned in two seperate threads. apparantly this time it is really official though.

We'll find out tomorrow, since there is a PlayStation Meeting in Tokyo, i think release date is going to be mention. :)

Though currently, its not "officail" its just a rumour. Again, stop jumping to conclusion, "Sony" never really said anything in the article. The "Nihon Keizai Shimbun" reported it. Do people actually read the articles before posting,and maybe doing some research on the source of the rumour?

beside, Sony already deny it in the same article on a japanese site. Either way we'll find out tomorrow good or bad.

http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=53504

heavyness
03-14-2006, 10:02 PM
agreed, its still a rumor until Sony says something. we should know more tomorrow.

if the PS3 does slip, its good news for not only the 360, but Nintendo's Revolution [which will be out this year].

PhilOsirus
03-15-2006, 12:05 AM
You mean it's good news for Sony because no game would have been ready to begin with. It was obvious it would not be released in spring. All of this won't make the 360 any more interesting, it is still a rushed console that has the same kind of lineup the Xbox had.

DDS
03-15-2006, 12:25 AM
You mean it's good news for Sony because no game would have been ready to begin with. It was obvious it would not be released in spring. All of this won't make the 360 any more interesting, it is still a rushed console that has the same kind of lineup the Xbox had.

360 crashes every 5-20 minutes to me... :D I don't even play anymore...

If PS3 has better quality (more stability, for example), and better games (which is for sure) when it comes out, it will kick 360 ass

DevilHacker
03-15-2006, 12:37 AM
360 crashes every 5-20 minutes to me... :D I don't even play anymore... Really? Do you have the power supply in an ventilated place?

I would contact Microsoft. They will fix it free of charge. You must of gotten one of the few (3%, and relatively small # of consoles) that has an defect.

innermindseye
03-15-2006, 12:37 AM
You mean it's good news for Sony because no game would have been ready to begin with. It was obvious it would not be released in spring. All of this won't make the 360 any more interesting, it is still a rushed console that has the same kind of lineup the Xbox had.

well if it isnt return if the úber fanboy. where was xbox even mentioned in the topic??

and as far as the topic goes, all i can say is YeeeEEEEEEEssSSSSS!!! score two for MS. you keep playing your imaginary ps3 that doesnt fit into the box or have a controller, or any finished games with a big smile on your face pretending that everything is actually alright. Ill go and play fight night 3 and ghoost recon :-p

DevilHacker
03-15-2006, 12:39 AM
you keep playing your imaginary ps3 that doesnt fit into the box or have a controller, or any finished games with a big smile on your face pretending that everything is actually alright. Ill go and play fight night 3 and ghoost recon :-p LOL!
Sorry for the small comment… I just had to give this guy his props.
2 points!
:thumbsup:

innermindseye
03-15-2006, 12:40 AM
Really? Do you have the power supply in an ventilated place?

I would contact Microsoft. They will fix it free of charge. You must of gotten one of the few (3%, and relatively small # of consoles) that has an defect.

yep. must be n00b. mines been working fine for a month. not to mention i worked in testing at EA doing microsoft compliance meaning we had shit loads of 360s lying around. oh yea, and one of them gave us problems would you believe. out of about150 units. MS you bastards, thats like 0.75% fault rate! cant u get anything right?!!

u gta stop the fanboys in their tracks devilhacker. :rolleyes: especially when its so uncalled for and false.

strangelife
03-15-2006, 01:02 AM
yep. must be n00b. mines been working fine for a month. not to mention i worked in testing at EA doing microsoft compliance meaning we had shit loads of 360s lying around. oh yea, and one of them gave us problems would you believe. out of about150 units. MS you bastards, thats like 0.75% fault rate! cant u get anything right?!!

u gta stop the fanboys in their tracks devilhacker. :rolleyes: especially when its so uncalled for and false.

so what's this got to do with the playstation 3? and "fanboy"? talk about calling the kettle black...

Kion
03-15-2006, 01:12 AM
i can't hold my breath anymore

heavyness
03-15-2006, 01:52 AM
i can't hold my breath anymore

i'm guessing we will hear more from you tomorrow?

Kentaro
03-15-2006, 05:32 AM
Ok it's time I jumped and said somethings. What's with all this urban legend myths about the XBox 360 crashing? A few XBox's crash, yes but a very small few and that was because of some manufactorer was trying to do with heat sinks on the 360's.

I have a XBox 360, bought it on launch and it hasn't crashed yet. I've also bought 5 others and sold them on Ebay and those havent crashed simply because people I know bought them. can you say "Perfect Dark Zero" ? Can you say Ghost Recon?

Can you say "Gears of War" which when released by years end will totally make you want to go out and get a XBox 360. And Unreal 2007 is now a question mark(??).

No system is perfect and the 360 does have it glitches. What system doesn't? Heck a toaster has glitches, but who call's CNN when there toaster goes out? No One.

People call CNN and etc when there XBox hiccups why? Because its Microsoft and its them thinking they can stick it too Bill Gates.

Microsofts marketing ploy even with faults will prove come years end to be "fruitfull." Why do I say that. I'm an American so I'm going to speak from an American perspective.

The PS3 if released in Japan first in November means it won't hit USA till late spring of 2007. But I'll be generous and say it'll hit the US come November just in time for XMas. How much is it going to cost. Its going to cost between $800-$900+ minus games and accessories.
a) gas prices are on the rise again in the US, $3.40 here in Seattle, and by winters end(american families wont be forking over $1,000 for a console they can get for $300).
That's what MS is banking on. They know they can't get all the PS2 people. There after the other buying clan come Xmas--2006. And they know its not you.b) If sanctions go through on Iran by this fall, then we're talking about huge energy prices for americans. families wont be able to justify spending $1,000 for a box.

-Heck Sonys trouble with the PS3 has now given new birth to the once defunct Nintendo. There partying more than Bill Gates over this news trust me. The game just got interesting.

-By Xmas 2006, the 360 will most likely have tons of games out, and most likely drop its price say about $100. All the bugs will have now been a thing of the past. Stores will have them in abundance. and mothers walking with there sons will op for the $299-$399 XBox versus's the $1,000 PS3 console. The serious gamer, some CGTalk members will fork over $1,000 if they can wait that long. Very few will. Especially once "Gears of War" and Halo 3 Trailer hits come fall. Trust me.

-What of the PS3 bugs? if u think the PS3 is going to be released minus bugs and hiccups, then I suggest u invest in property in new orleans. Why is it delayed now? It's delayed now because the engineers, the guys and gals who make the big bucks are having problems with it. There's glitch after glitch, after glitch and thats in a controlled environment. Once little Stevie age 9 takes his PS3 home and hooks it up to his TV, its bound to have unforseen issues. Mark my words it's going to be horrible. I like Sony a lot, and I respect what Sony has done over the years. But Sony went south when they put all there eggs in one basket with this un proven technology that even the engineers themselves cant get a grip on. Yes its futuristic, but its not going to take them into the future right away, esp at a time when Sony is loosing money to Apple. Hollywood and Microsoft. Hurry up Spider-Man 3, Sony needs your 1 billion $$ like yesterday.

-That all being said the Xbox will have major releases that will keep its name a float. #1 Halo 3, #2 Halo-the Movie, (two things are going happen) Quiet as kept. And some wild cards(see gametrailer.com) for what they are.

-Your either going to see the movie trailer to Halo when the game Halo 3 comes out, or your going to see the trailer to Halor 3 come summer 2007 when Halo the movie comes out. One is going to promote the other. When Halo (the movie hits) and if Peter Jackson gets his way, this movie will own 2007. **Peter Jackson just left Seattle 2 months a go, and he toured Microsoft campus. No doubtably having lunch or dinner with the discussion being of Halo "the movie." You thought Kong had wicked scenes. Guys, Peter Jackson wants to make Halo the movie <the 2nd coming.>

-"Gears of War", and "Oblivion", and a fantasy role playing(whose name escapes) which some are calling the next Final Fantasy 7.

Doubt what say? Cool. Meet me back here December 26th, 2006 and lets see.

******************* Thats if it comes out in the US November 2006.***********

Japan usually gets consoles 6 months --to a year before the US Does. If the US has to wait till late Spring for the PS3, then that's it Game Over. MS has a lead to exploit.

Even a limited release would be detrimental.


Thanks

heavyness
03-15-2006, 05:52 AM
for those of you pulling a late on tonight, check out...

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/sony/sony-updates-hitting-in-a-few-hours-160578.php

.. they have someone in Tokyo at the Sony press conference, they will update with any news at 2 a.m. EST.

Dr. Nick
03-15-2006, 07:16 AM
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/696/696054p1.html
confirmed

DaJuice
03-15-2006, 07:30 AM
$1000 console? Okaaay...

I'm thinking it will retail for $400, or $500 as some sort of bundle.

DevilHacker
03-15-2006, 07:33 AM
To Kentaro;
Best read I have had all night.
:thumbsup:

Also, to add to your predictions… I bet Xbox live arcade will also be a major selling point, by the time the PS3 hits the states. It has some serious potential (especially if they ever let indi-developers have a crack at it) and I would not put it past Microsoft to use it to their advantage. I bet that they will release more free games for all the 360 owners (to add to the hex already supplied out of the box)….

Lastly. I have said it several times, but I thought I would repost it here…
Expect Microsoft to release an third version of the 360 that has an built in hard drive (an 100GB’s from the sounds of it), has tivo-like functions, and can burn to HD-DVD, to come out at the same time as the PS3 (state side release) and for its price to be less than the PS3’s basic console (no games, accessories, ect.). The price should be around $500. Also expect the “Core” and “standard” packs to be lowered in price at the same time.
:deal:

DevilHacker
03-15-2006, 07:37 AM
$1000 console? Okaaay...

I'm thinking it will retail for $400, or $500 as some sort of bundle. I would not hope for anything under $600… and shoot for around $700 without anything extra such as games or accessories.

If Sony priced it any lower, they would not only be loosing a whole hell of an lot of money per console, but would also be pricing their Blu-Ray partners out of the market. Something, which (if happened), would mean the official failure of any chance of Blu-Ray becoming a standard.

Also, when he said an “$1000” he meant after an game or two, and an extra accessories such as an controller.

Dr. Nick
03-15-2006, 08:04 AM
People are going ape crap over the info(in a positive way.) Read more info at IGN. I'm going to bed.

yeoj
03-15-2006, 08:39 AM
i think i'm gearing towards the 360 now... :curious:

pearson
03-15-2006, 09:21 AM
I KNEW IT!
Depending on Blue ray for the disks was something suicidal for them.
-R
Is the problem the discs, or the connection to the TV? The DRM on Blueray is supposed to require special digital cables that hook into your TV. But nobody has such a TV. I'm sure they can put the game signal out on normal analog wires, but if the PS3 can't play movies except on special TVs, that is going to hurt their appeal. Perhaps they are buying more time to negotiate with the MPAA?

This whole business is so convoluted, I'm a little fuzzy on the details anymore. :blush:

halo
03-15-2006, 09:47 AM
Sony promises global PS3 launch in November; six million units by year-end.

Kutaragi commits to aggressive worldwide simultaneous launch schedule.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=15355

He told the briefing that the PS3 will be launched in early November in all three major global territories, confounding industry and analyst expectations of a staggered release schedule which would see the European launch delayed to 2007.

From launch onwards, Sony plans to ship a million units a month of the PlayStation 3 - with six million units to be on the market by the end of 2006, indicating that the company plans to have around four million units ready for day one.

Cronholio
03-15-2006, 10:16 AM
Here's the highlights from gaming age. I dunno sounds pretty cool to me. I'd pay up to 600 for it I think, but I hope it's a lot closer to $425.

PS3:
- GLOBAL RELEASE NOVEMBER 11th
- 60GB HDD 2.5" with pre-installed Linux OS will be included?
- Dev kit specs fix as of today
- Final PS3 development kits will be sent to developers in June
- 10.000.000 BD-ROMS manufacturing capability per month @ cost around same as 2-layer DVD
- Every PS3 game will be on a Blu Ray Disc, in an attempt to prevent piracy
- Price will not be less than 50.000YEN (~$425USD)
- PS3 will have HDMI support from launch
- Sony plans to produce 1 million PS3s a month; 6 million PS3s for FY2006 (by the end of March 07)
- basic" online service free, no details yet (could be XBLS for PS3)
- Full backwards compatibility, hi-res and texture filtering for all titles (akin to what the Xbox 360 does to Halo)
- The online service will be working off of GameSpy technology

PSP:
- videophone in autumn
- MinGol GPS
- Eyetoy
- Flash support with next update
- Mem.Stick boot support in autumn
- first-gen PS1 official emulator
- buy/download games from net
- 199 CORE PACK PSP being released in USA/Europe by end of March (March 22nd for Europe)
- 19,800 yen Ceramic White PSP CORE PACK from 15 April in Japan

Beamtracer
03-15-2006, 11:47 AM
From Forbes Magazine
'I would like to apologize for revising the release date, because standardization talks on new Blu-ray technology and high-definition multimedia interfacing -- the key features of the next generation console, have taken more time than we had originally thought,' SCE President and CEO Ken Kutaragi told a press conference.
http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2006/03/15/afx2595469.html

This is all to do with DRM, the movie industry, and the MPAA. They are causing delays to Blu-Ray.

Notice they said delays are the result of "high-definition multimedia interfacing". That would be the HDCP connection which forces people to buy new HD screens in the future.

I don't think it's any coincidence that Sony Pictures announced today that they won't require HDCP enabled screens for Sony movies.

DaJuice
03-15-2006, 12:56 PM
I would not hope for anything under $600… and shoot for around $700 without anything extra such as games or accessories.

If Sony priced it any lower, they would not only be loosing a whole hell of an lot of money per console, but would also be pricing their Blu-Ray partners out of the market. Something, which (if happened), would mean the official failure of any chance of Blu-Ray becoming a standard.

Also, when he said an “$1000” he meant after an game or two, and an extra accessories such as an controller.

I just don't see it happening. You really think Sony would keep the price of the PS3 at $700 for a year or more (or however long it takes for sub $1000 players to come out) just to please their Blu-Ray partners? That would seem like the best way to tank the PS3. I doubt a $700 console would be successful when there are alternatives that cost hundreds less. And it wouldn't benefit Sony's blu-ray partners at all to have the PS3 fail, since it's pretty much the best weapon they have for getting the format accepted.

Also, do we know how much the PS3 will really cost Sony to produce? There was that Meryll Lynch estimate, stating that it would cost around $800 to manufacture. Everyone seems to have taken that figure to heart, but idunno...

tozz
03-15-2006, 02:34 PM
I was beginning to think the PS3 would become a major fiasco, but with the announcement I got my hopes up again, this was the best thing Sony could ever do. This will give more time for devs to produce games and it will let the techonology mature some more (lower prices).

Yes, XB360 is out, yes, PS2 is still outselling it in amounts on consoles. Microsoft needs games for their console, it's not enough to have it collecting dust on the store shelves. I was about to get one a month or so ago but a friend told me not to because there just wasn't any games worth it, his own is just sitting on the shelf.

JohnD
03-15-2006, 02:50 PM
I think Sony really shot themselves in the foot here. I don't plan on buying either a PS3 or 360 soon because there are still a ton of games I want for my Xbox...plus I'm loving Halo 2 on Live. But my friend has a 360. It's never crashed on him and from games I've seen him play on it...it's amazing. Not sure why there are some folks calling the 360 a rushed piece of hardware. Is it out of the realm of the imagination...that perhaps Microsoft just happened to have it's act together on this one...while Sony dropped the ball?

noisewar
03-15-2006, 03:01 PM
Really? Do you have the power supply in an ventilated place?

I would contact Microsoft. They will fix it free of charge. You must of gotten one of the few (3%, and relatively small # of consoles) that has an defect.


Not to hate, but 3% is alot. Realistically, the number was probably closer to 5-10% based on what MS admitted and the many many surveys around.

Anyways, doesn't matter, these kinks will be ironed out before the PS3 is released. November worldwide release? Don't make me laugh, there are so many issues atm a domestic release of just half a million consoles before Xmas would be impressive.

mummey
03-15-2006, 03:03 PM
Well, let's see if we can believe Sony's PR _this_ time. (Hint: MS also wanted 6 million units out by the end of 2005 at one point.)

Sony delayed to November knowing that delaying it any further would make turn it into a still-born. The PS3's launch will now be compared even more with the 360's and will have to work much harder to achieve the same success. MS will likely have plenty of games released or already available the week the PS3 is released.

In short, because of this delay, there is now _no_ chance of the 360 going the way of the Dreamcast. Sony better pray that everything here on out goes smoothly or else they're in for massive problems.

-b

PS: Online System based on GameSpy!?! What do they think this is? 1998!?!

RobertoOrtiz
03-15-2006, 03:24 PM
Quote:
"Sony will put off the release of its much awaited PlayStation 3 console until November from its planned spring debut because of delays in finalizing its next-generation optical disc technology, the company said Wednesday.

Ken Kutaragi, the head Sony's video games division, made the announcement at a hastily called news conference after reports of the delay surfaced in the business daily Nihon Keizai Shimbun and other papers."


>>LINK<< (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060315/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_sony)

-R

eMPeck
03-15-2006, 03:36 PM
I wonder how will linux OS look. Will PS3 be able to run native linux applications? If yes, it would be nice to connect monitor, keyboard and mouse to PS3, and beside gaming use it as workstation.

They also could relase official linux distro for PSP. That would make tiny nice PDA...

poly-phobic
03-15-2006, 05:30 PM
i hope, comes November, they dont come out and say something like only japan will have a nov release date, and in fact will release in spring 07 for american and european market....:twisted:

HappyCookie
03-15-2006, 05:50 PM
i hope, comes November, they dont come out and say something like only japan will have a nov release date, and in fact will release in spring 07 for american and european market....:twisted:

Bah, it's not as if we weren't used to it... December 2004 for the PSP in Japan, September 2005 in Europe...

heavyness
03-15-2006, 06:10 PM
i hope, comes November, they dont come out and say something like only japan will have a nov release date, and in fact will release in spring 07 for american and european market....:twisted:

if anything else goes bad, that would be the first thing to get cut, the global launch. they would spin it as "we want to make sure all markets get as much as possible, so we'll move the US and European launch 2007." i've also read the HDD will be sold separate but you will need it to play games? i hope thats wrong and not have to do with the blu ray copyright protection.

also, i've been reading that the Sony Network HUB thing "aka Xbox LIVE" service will be free for a limited time or free service for basic services... now i know they need to compete against LIVE, but where is all this money coming from? free online and a system that has a blu ray disc, cell processor... when and where are they going to make money with this? i'm asking seriously, no flaming here. also, Sony didn't win the dual shock court case.

Sonk
03-15-2006, 06:18 PM
Here's the highlights from gaming age. I dunno sounds pretty cool to me. I'd pay up to 600 for it I think, but I hope it's a lot closer to $425.

Oh no the sky is falling, a delay!<rolleyes>yeah the xbox fanboys are having a field day with this one :). This is a console war? not a battle, winning one battle doesnt mean you won the war.

Anyway good post, i just check out the new just now. Im curious what the "free service" is all about and what you get for it.

- 60 GB seems abit small, 80 GB would of been better..but thats just me. no worries, im probably going to buy a bigger HDD for it anyway.

- World wide launch, sounds good to me, hopefully it has some great launch title..or else its really pointless for me to by at launch.

As for the price, im still thinking 299 USD before tax for a standard package. At most i think 400 USD. Anything higher wont really be "competatively priced". Im wondering what would sale better this holiday season, the PS2 software or the PS3.

Hats off to MS for winning a small battle, enjoy it while it last ..your going to need it with Nintendo and Sony coming this holiday season. Shorted lived is the word ;)

BTW, Sony can produce 1 million PS3 per month, if you think otherwise you dont really know anything about their fab plants. IBMs , and Toshiba. They been preparing along time ago.

peace

http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=53285&page=19




In short, because of this delay, there is now _no_ chance of the 360 going the way of the Dreamcast.

Im going to have to disagree ,you realise the DC came out before the PS2 right? IMO, i still see the 360 getting Dreamcasted sooner or later. If you learn anything from console history coming out first doesnt mean anything.

laureato di arte
03-15-2006, 06:44 PM
We'll find out tomorrow, since there is a PlayStation Meeting in Tokyo, i think release date is going to be mention. :)

Though currently, its not "officail" its just a rumour. Again, stop jumping to conclusion, "Sony" never really said anything in the article. The "Nihon Keizai Shimbun" reported it. Do people actually read the articles before posting,and maybe doing some research on the source of the rumour?

beside, Sony already deny it in the same article on a japanese site. Either way we'll find out tomorrow good or bad.

http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=53504

like i said dont shoot the messenger... I was simply stating what was in the article atthe time.

good health to you.

ThomasMahler
03-15-2006, 06:57 PM
100 bucks that Sony will NOT release it globally. Probably sounds good on paper - but I'm pretty sure it won't work out in reality.

mummey
03-15-2006, 07:26 PM
Im going to have to disagree ,you realise the DC came out before the PS2 right? IMO, i still see the 360 getting Dreamcasted sooner or later. If you learn anything from console history coming out first doesnt mean anything.

I stand corrected on the DC and PS2 remarks. I had thought the PS2 had come out only a few months after the DC. Turns out it was 15 months. I take back that remark.

-b

btw, I wouldn't call myself a 'fanboy' since I've _never_ owned a game console.

CupOWonton
03-15-2006, 07:33 PM
This gives Xbox 360 owners and non owners to become ever more disenchanted by the 360 for a whole year. And when Ps3 comes out, all the people wanting one, will go out and get one.

RobertoOrtiz
03-15-2006, 07:41 PM
This gives Xbox 360 owners and non owners to become ever more disenchanted by the 360 for a whole year. And when Ps3 comes out, all the people wanting one, will go out and get one.

I am sorry, but that logic is flawed. If quality mattered, well when the videotape battle happened in the 80's between Beta and VHS, Beta would have won.


The quality of the product is not that important in the long run, what is important is how far is the market foothold a product has. And what makes the foothold happens is tricky.
In the case of the VHS/ Beta battle, VHS won because it could record longer.


-R

Saurus
03-15-2006, 08:12 PM
To me it's about...games! games! games!
Who ever has the best games!
WINS!

innermindseye
03-15-2006, 08:21 PM
also, Sony didn't win the dual shock court case.

muahahaha...

ArtisticVisions
03-15-2006, 08:23 PM
Crap, crap, crap... I don't think my PS2 will last that long. :sad:

(hell, I don't think it'll last another week - a lot of my DVDs and games won't play on it anymore. Looks like I'll have to buy one of the thin PS2s instead of waiting for the PS3)

CupOWonton
03-15-2006, 08:44 PM
Xbox never realy had a 'foothold" of its own, its been sharing the foothold with Sony and PC's. Most of the games on X-box that get a general market *fighters/sports/racing* are almost alwayse on PS2 and/or PC. There were actualy very few desired games that were soley on Xbox, the main 2 being Halo and Halo2. And its not like people arent buying ps2's or ps2 games any more, theyre still buying them by the droves. And considering how 360 has already gotten enough negative backlash from the console errors and lack of shipments, they are seemingly following in the steps of the dreamcast. It's going to take a LOT of game sales, subscription fees, and accessory sales for Microsoft to make their money back on the 360 as well. From past experiences with the Xbox, one can also guess that the games on 360 wont get any better than they already are, whereas one can expect the ps3 graphics to go on an incline over the years just like the psX and ps2 had done before it. Xbox techincaly has more EVERYTHING than PS2 other than game selection, it has more functions, etc etc, and it still lost that battle. History is just repeating itself.

trence5
03-15-2006, 08:57 PM
wow, all this talk of the X360 and PS3 shortcomings, I wonder how's Nintendo coming with their Revolution.

CupOWonton
03-15-2006, 09:08 PM
muahahaha...

*reads an article* Immerson won because Sony and others were supposedly illegaly using " Rumble Technology"? Oh BS. Ive attached motors to sound wires before, it does the same dang thing. You just attach it to a board that limits the signal so only specific shocks come back and BANG youve got 'rumbe technology". What a load of BS those people are throwing around.

laureato di arte
03-15-2006, 09:11 PM
wow, all this talk of the X360 and PS3 shortcomings, I wonder how's Nintendo coming with their Revolution.
Iwata is due to give a speach at GDC in a few days time, although nobody knows what he will say, im hoping for the final name of the console,there are roumours going about that it will be called tornado... we will see at E3 when Most of the information will be revealed, but not all.

JByron
03-15-2006, 10:05 PM
I don't know about the rest of you, but the only things I am really excited about are the Revolution and Lego Star Wars II

trence5
03-15-2006, 10:14 PM
Hey, fellas

So far from most sources, like say ign.com, the Nintendo's next machine is speculated to only be stronger than the previous X-box........ So how do you think it'll do? If it is, how do you think being least expensive of the next gen systems and ease of development of software will factor in?

Dr. Nick
03-15-2006, 10:23 PM
Yep I've been hearing that from other places. Rev will be powerful but less powerful than the Xbox 360, but since HD will not be the focus with the system it won't matter much.

laureato di arte
03-15-2006, 11:08 PM
Hey, fellas

So far from most sources, like say ign.com, the Nintendo's next machine is speculated to only be stronger than the previous X-box........ So how do you think it'll do? If it is, how do you think being least expensive of the next gen systems and ease of development of software will factor in?

I think what nintendo are trying to do is introduce the new console in a similar way to that of the ds. The ds isnt the most powerful handheld, but it is the most innovative, bringing about new ways of gameplay that wearnt possible before. If the revolution can do what the ds has done it will fair very well. Im liking the idea of ps1 games on the psp.

CupOWonton
03-15-2006, 11:25 PM
Rev could have some very cool shooters actualy. Using The joystick to move, and the main 'rev-remote' to aim, you wouldnt have to center the screen on an enemy, it'd be more like a stand up arcade shooter, but with being able to FINALY controll your position and motion.

Gehof
03-16-2006, 12:19 AM
To me it's about...games! games! games!
Who ever has the best games!
WINS!

Quoted for agreement. Dead Rising for 360 looks AWESOME, but I'm gonna need a few more excuses.

Am I the only one who doesn't see PS3's release date as a delay? Since when has anyone released a console stateside in the springtime? Sony's always done Japan in the spring or summer, and then tagged the US just a month or 2 before christmas assuring maximum sales. If anything, it's the solidification of a US release date (I'd always considered PS3's prospective date to be Japanese since Sony has NEVER put the US before Japan on a release calendar).

RobertoOrtiz
03-16-2006, 03:50 AM
Analysts React to News of PS3 Delay

Quote:
"There were few people left (if any) who actually expected Sony's PS3 to still launch in the spring. But what does the delay mean for Sony and its next-gen race with Microsoft? We gauge the responses from game industry analysts. "

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=12130

-R

marksch
03-16-2006, 04:29 AM
I find it amazing that Sony would use Beta-Ray…er.. Blue-Ray as their excuse for the delay. Didn’t Sony invent Blue-Ray? Wasn’t the AACS spec made available Feb 21st? http://www.blu-ray.com/ (http://www.blu-ray.com/) How are other companies coming out with BR players next month? Heck even Sony is introducing a Vaio with BR next month, and rolling out movies come May 23rd! No this is simply an excuse which follows Sony’s traditional path of deception to the consumer. Remember how powerful the PS1 was supposed to be? Or how about the “emotion engine” that promised SGI Reality Engine graphics on the PS2? And the list goes on… Its already been documented that many developers are finding they cannot get decent frame rates on the PS3 dev kits at 1080p and are developing for 720p instead. If AACS was truly the cause of delay don’t you think a working prototype of the PS3 would have been on display by now? ..somewhere?? Sony could be manufacturing loads of these and just upgrading a bios or something when the format was ready but that isnt happening.



All Sony is interested in is developing proprietary formats so they can line their pockets with more cash. Beta vs. VHS, CD+R vs CD-R, DVD+R vs DVD-R, MiniDisc vs. CD, the new Universal Mini Disc (so universal only Sony uses it), or how about Memory Stick-Memory Stick Duo-Memory Stick Pro-Memory stick Magic Gate how many friggin memory formats can one company come up with when there are enough out there already? Or how bout until recently Sony’s Mp3 players wouldn’t even play MP3’s no, only Sony’s propriety music format until they sold what one?!

And now here we are again, Sony leading the charge for Blue-Ray and causing another standards rift.

PhilOsirus
03-16-2006, 04:59 AM
Analysts React to News of PS3 Delay

Quote:
"There were few people left (if any) who actually expected Sony's PS3 to still launch in the spring. But what does the delay mean for Sony and its next-gen race with Microsoft? We gauge the responses from game industry analysts. "

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=12130

-R

All major video game stocks have raised in value in the last 2 days as well as today, even after the announcement. We'll see by the end of the week how the market really responds.

One thing I don't like is that this will make the transition phase much longer than usual. Next-gen will only be current-gen in fall 2007. Hence since the 360 was released so early the transition phase will have lasted a full 2 years. Unlike the previous generation where everyone was patiently waiting for the PS2, this time around it's a bit more active yet not enough to bring the whole industry to the next-gen period soon. People will keep on buying PS2, DS, and PSP games. This means that companies will still see major profit reductions until fall 2007 since their investments in next-gen started too early and will bring profits in much later.

RobertoOrtiz
03-16-2006, 03:12 PM
CNNMoney: Sony's PS3 game console delayed (http://www.cnn.com/money/2006/03/15/news/international/sony_ps3.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes)

tozz
03-16-2006, 04:10 PM
All Sony is interested in is developing proprietary formats so they can line their pockets with more cash. Beta vs. VHS, CD+R vs CD-R, DVD+R vs DVD-R, MiniDisc vs. CD, the new Universal Mini Disc (so universal only Sony uses it), or how about Memory Stick-Memory Stick Duo-Memory Stick Pro-Memory stick Magic Gate how many friggin memory formats can one company come up with when there are enough out there already? Or how bout until recently Sony’s Mp3 players wouldn’t even play MP3’s no, only Sony’s propriety music format until they sold what one?!

And now here we are again, Sony leading the charge for Blue-Ray and causing another standards rift.

Please, don't even go there, especially not when you don't have your facts correct, MD vs CD? On what planet? You do know that CD was co-developed by Sony right? VHS was the crappier of the two formats, soooo wonderful we got that instead of Betamax right... As for CD-R, it ALSO was a join effort by Sony and Philips. DVD+R isn't something Sony is alone with, it's a joint effort by _alot_ of companies, and it's a result of the bad DVD-R implementation, DVD+R actually follows the DVD specs better than DVD-R. So, you're standing waving a flag against Memorystick...

As for blu-ray being proprietary, it's the same with hd-dvd, so why are you complaining?

Should we continue on to Microsoft and see how they have handled the Software market with their practices? Didn't think so, and it's not relevant at all in this topic.

noisewar
03-16-2006, 04:48 PM
Please, don't even go there, especially not when you don't have your facts correct, MD vs CD? On what planet? You do know that CD was co-developed by Sony right? VHS was the crappier of the two formats, soooo wonderful we got that instead of Betamax right... As for CD-R, it ALSO was a join effort by Sony and Philips. DVD+R isn't something Sony is alone with, it's a joint effort by _alot_ of companies, and it's a result of the bad DVD-R implementation, DVD+R actually follows the DVD specs better than DVD-R. So, you're standing waving a flag against Memorystick...

As for blu-ray being proprietary, it's the same with hd-dvd, so why are you complaining?

Should we continue on to Microsoft and see how they have handled the Software market with their practices? Didn't think so, and it's not relevant at all in this topic.


Well friend, your facts are correct, but the spirit of his complaint is too. The fact is that format superiority is but one aspect of the superiority of a format. Price point, accessibility, consumer friendliness, market permeation, etc. are just as important. Video whupped Betamax' ass, and it rightly should have. MP3 even more so is an inferior format. That's only half the story.

Most formats are developed through a joint effort of a forum of developers, but when Sony tries to shove it down people's throats - UMD movies as opposed to memory stick - mp3 restrictions on players - mini-CD - they'll find that customers today want more control, not less. That means the price advantage and relative lack of security on the HD-DVD for recording is a big plus.

What I really see is Sony going down on big production houses, attempting to win them on said security and encryption features, thinking to sweep in this generation of the format wars. It's a bit sad since in the long run, I think all formats will lose to online content distribution. Apple and MS both see this. Movie studios and record labels are scared of it. Consumers are horny for it. Sony, alas, is too busy trying to re-masculate itself over its Betamax loss still.

laureato di arte
03-16-2006, 05:21 PM
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3148815
Microsoft Responds To PS3 Delay
"This announcement certainly doesn't hange any of our plans."
by Patrick Klepek (http://www.1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=4767412), 03/16/2006
(http://www.1up.com/do/imageDisplay?id=2144944)http://www.1up.com/media?id=2144944 Many gamers freaked -- in good and bad ways -- over the confirmation of PlayStation (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3148815#) 3's delay until the holiday season, and while Microsoft's own private feelings on the matter are unknown, they have released a public response to the event and surrounding gamer hysteria. Gamerscoreblog (http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2006/03/15/533688.aspx), a web blog run by a number of Xbox-related Microsoft employees, brought the company's response forward. Unsurprisingly, they claim not to be phased whatsoever by Sony's plans.



This announcement certainly doesn't change any of our plans. We've blasted out of the gate with the greatest launch in the history of video games and we're keeping our eyes squarely fixed on today and on the Xbox 360 road ahead, including continuous new content and programming through our premier Xbox Live online gaming (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3148815#) service, the delivery of 80 high definition games and shipping between 4.5 and 5.5 million consoles by June. -- Microsoft
Coincidental or not, Microsoft's direct response to the PlayStation 3 announcements turned out to be Rare's kid-aimed Viva Pinata (http://www.1up.com/do/gameOverview?cId=3148663) -- at least it looks really, really pretty.

tozz
03-16-2006, 07:49 PM
Well friend, your facts are correct, but the spirit of his complaint is too. The fact is that format superiority is but one aspect of the superiority of a format. Price point, accessibility, consumer friendliness, market permeation, etc. are just as important. Video whupped Betamax' ass, and it rightly should have. MP3 even more so is an inferior format. That's only half the story.

Most formats are developed through a joint effort of a forum of developers, but when Sony tries to shove it down people's throats - UMD movies as opposed to memory stick - mp3 restrictions on players - mini-CD - they'll find that customers today want more control, not less. That means the price advantage and relative lack of security on the HD-DVD for recording is a big plus.

What I really see is Sony going down on big production houses, attempting to win them on said security and encryption features, thinking to sweep in this generation of the format wars. It's a bit sad since in the long run, I think all formats will lose to online content distribution. Apple and MS both see this. Movie studios and record labels are scared of it. Consumers are horny for it. Sony, alas, is too busy trying to re-masculate itself over its Betamax loss still.
Don't forget who's behind the reasons for the copy protections. MPAA, simple as that. And last time I checked blu-ray wasn't even close to being Sony only. I mean, look how MS is handling HD-DVD, "we won't play blu-ray", now there you have a forcing hand if I ever saw one.
I dunno how Sony is forcing UMD, as far as I know it's just for PSP, it's not even interfering with anything else, not like they were gonna put dvd's in the psp. And if you're gonna complain about UMD for PSP then you might just as well hate on Nintendo for having their own formats for their handhelds, just doesn't make any sense.
True Sony made a fool of themself with non-mp3 players, just as Apple did with Mac only iPods. Now Sony plays MP3 and iPod works on Windows.
In the end it comes down to this, companies like Microsoft and Sony want to control consumers, organizations like MPAA wants more than that.
I see online content being worth something in about 5years or so, the stuff Apple put out is just laughable now. When I get 1920*1080 progressive content that I'm allowed to burn on a disc we can talk about online content :)

"We've blasted out of the gate with the greatest launch in the history of video games"
Being outsold by a 5year old console, and not having a solid catalogue of games is "the greatest launch in the history of video games"? Reality check :D

As for the PS3, Sony still have plenty of time to embarass themself, they're playing a dangerous game not having/wanting anything to show.

DevilHacker
03-16-2006, 07:51 PM
announcements turned out to be Rare's kid-aimed Viva Pinata (http://www.1up.com/do/gameOverview?cId=3148663) -- at least it looks really, really pretty...At least we can all agree on that.
:D

http://www.1up.com/media?id=2757237&type=lg

http://www.1up.com/media?id=2757156&type=lg

Tryn
03-16-2006, 09:02 PM
I love these kinds of threads. Whenever I need a good chuckle, I read fanboy battles.
I think I'll just stick with my PC for a couple of years, get a PS3 when its not such a wallet-hole. And for now, there's still a ton of games I want to play on the PS2, and they'll be coming down in price.

noisewar
03-16-2006, 09:09 PM
I dunno how Sony is forcing UMD, as far as I know it's just for PSP, it's not even interfering with anything else, not like they were gonna put dvd's in the psp. And if you're gonna complain about UMD for PSP then you might just as well hate on Nintendo for having their own formats for their handhelds, just doesn't make any sense.



Never said they were forcing it us, but comparing the UMD to say a Nintendo cart isn't the same. Pirates of the Carribean wasn't released on a Nintendo cart, and the GBA wasn't ever meant to be a video player. What I was trying to say is that Sony's flubbed in ways such as making said UMDs cost the same as DVDs and making mini CDs unplayable on PSP (that I know of), neither a brilliant way of respecting the consumer. And not just Sony (although they are the more visible ones), I mean look at what Apple's stupid licensing policies did to the Motorola MP3 phone.

But going back to the rest of what you said, I don't disagree, and the MPAA is a wonderfully evil organization with the right intentions (to make bazillions) in the wrong places (format wars against piracy). So long as they keep looking at consumers as enemies, they are going to get enemies, mark my words.

tozz
03-16-2006, 11:10 PM
Never said they were forcing it us, but comparing the UMD to say a Nintendo cart isn't the same. Pirates of the Carribean wasn't released on a Nintendo cart, and the GBA wasn't ever meant to be a video player. What I was trying to say is that Sony's flubbed in ways such as making said UMDs cost the same as DVDs and making mini CDs unplayable on PSP (that I know of), neither a brilliant way of respecting the consumer. And not just Sony (although they are the more visible ones), I mean look at what Apple's stupid licensing policies did to the Motorola MP3 phone.

But going back to the rest of what you said, I don't disagree, and the MPAA is a wonderfully evil organization with the right intentions (to make bazillions) in the wrong places (format wars against piracy). So long as they keep looking at consumers as enemies, they are going to get enemies, mark my words.
No but the UMD Version of Pirates of the Carribean never stoped the DVD version, neither was it a requirement to have the UMD version in any other case exept when you want to watch it on the PSP, which has UMD as its format. Sure, you can't play everything on the PSP, but who are we trying to fool, it was never ment to play everything. I buy the product for what it's supposed to do (play UMD in the case of PSP) and not for the things it doesn't do, now, if it's supposed to play something and doesn't, it's a whole other issue. I have survived this long with buying selected products, I don't think the consumer power over choice will diminish (even sony got the point about playing mp3 ;) ) A prime example is when the product is good, but the support is bad. Take the iPod for example, 5g has very good audio quality and a nice amount of space. Too bad Apple totally ignored the software and must have a grudge against their users. Thanks to anapod, I now have an iPod, and later on when Rockbox gets stable I'll switch to that. All thanks to the customers ;) The same example applies on XBOX, do I need to say XBMC? Same goes for PSP.

Too much ramblings in this post :)

ShadowHunter
03-16-2006, 11:46 PM
Coincidental or not, Microsoft's direct response to the PlayStation 3 announcements turned out to be Rare's kid-aimed Viva Pinata (http://www.1up.com/do/gameOverview?cId=3148663) -- at least it looks really, really pretty.
Wow I love the art style of that game. Amazing. Kind of reminds me of Nindendo's artwork in Yoshi's Island (the SNES one) except of course in 3d. Wish more games would do this instead of going for (and failing at) photorealism. I love stylized light-hearted games:
http://www.1up.com/do/slideshow?pager.offset=8&mt=0&cId=3148663&mId=2757157

Sorry for hijacking the thread. To stay on topic: Sony will be fine don't worry, though another delay would not come as a surprise to me ;)

trence5
03-17-2006, 12:15 AM
Sorry to deviate from the subject, but I'm not a tech-head so would anyone be kind enough to explain to me the difference between DVD+R and DVD-R. I know DVD+R means recordable (?), but what the hell does -R mean?

Pavlovich
03-17-2006, 01:12 AM
there's nothing i find more annoying than a playstation fanboy, but i'll tell you, i am rooting with both arms for the PS3 to HURRY UP AND PLEASE COME OUT AND PLEASE BE THE MOST AWESOME GAME SYSTEM IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE like they're promising. i (and my wallet) will not be a happy camper if sony ends up with a mid to late 2007 actual "fully loaded, full to the brim" shipment of hardware.

Kyan
03-17-2006, 02:22 AM
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3148815
Microsoft Responds To PS3 Delay
"This announcement certainly doesn't hange any of our plans."
by Patrick Klepek (http://www.1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=4767412), 03/16/2006
http://www.1up.com/media?id=2144944 Many gamers freaked -- in good and bad ways -- over the confirmation of PlayStation (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3148815#) 3's delay until the holiday season, and while Microsoft's own private feelings on the matter are unknown, they have released a public response to the event and surrounding gamer hysteria. Gamerscoreblog (http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2006/03/15/533688.aspx), a web blog run by a number of Xbox-related Microsoft employees, brought the company's response forward. Unsurprisingly, they claim not to be phased whatsoever by Sony's plans.


This announcement certainly doesn't change any of our plans. We've blasted out of the gate with the greatest launch in the history of video games and we're keeping our eyes squarely fixed on today and on the Xbox 360 road ahead, including continuous new content and programming through our premier Xbox Live online gaming (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3148815#) service, the delivery of 80 high definition games and shipping between 4.5 and 5.5 million consoles by June. -- Microsoft
Coincidental or not, Microsoft's direct response to the PlayStation 3 announcements turned out to be Rare's kid-aimed Viva Pinata (http://www.1up.com/do/gameOverview?cId=3148663) -- at least it looks really, really pretty.

I'm not sure that's right. Seriously, Microsoft would put Viva Pinata (which I'm totally freakin' out about, btw) up against a console announcement? Haha...no. They just happened on the same day. Coincidence, not a response.

It hasn't been a practice of Microsoft to respond to anything Nintendo or Sony is doing, so why would they start now?

PhilOsirus
03-17-2006, 02:47 AM
It hasn't been a practice of Microsoft to respond to anything Nintendo or Sony is doing, so why would they start now?

How about Peter Moore's "I want to give kudos for Nintendo for its attempt at innovation with the new controller".

Or "they're certainly making a very different bet in terms of how much they're putting into the graphics this time. I do think there is a question as to whether they can get outside the young age bracket at all. That's been tough for them."

Or Bill Gate's answer to whether he wished Microsoft had thought of the new Nintendo Revolution controller: "Uh…no. [Laughs] We’ll watch and see. Holding two different things like that? Anyway, Nintendo…you’ve got to give it to them. They march to the beat of a different drummer. Sometimes that makes them incredibly right and sometimes that makes them incredibly wrong."

Just google about it, there's more.

Kyan
03-17-2006, 02:57 AM
How about Peter Moore's "I want to give kudos for Nintendo for its attempt at innovation with the new controller".

Or "they're certainly making a very different bet in terms of how much they're putting into the graphics this time. I do think there is a question as to whether they can get outside the young age bracket at all. That's been tough for them."

Or Bill Gate's answer to whether he wished Microsoft had thought of the new Nintendo Revolution controller: "Uh…no. [Laughs] We’ll watch and see. Holding two different things like that? Anyway, Nintendo…you’ve got to give it to them. They march to the beat of a different drummer. Sometimes that makes them incredibly right and sometimes that makes them incredibly wrong."

Just google about it, there's more.

They respond to interviewers and give their opinion. I'm talking about upstaging and whatnot.

It's silly...no, stupid to think that Microsoft put Viva Pinata against the PS3 announcement. Rare said months ago, as soon as Kameo and PDZ released, that they would show their new games in the coming months. GDC and E3 sound like pretty good places to show off their wares, one at GDC and one at E3 so as to let both games get the spot light as far as their respective audiences go.

PhilOsirus
03-17-2006, 04:13 AM
Yeah I'm not saying they showed Pinata because of the PS3, I was just saying they have been commenting about the Revolution more than once. They never do so about the PS3 itself tho as far as I noticed.

Anyway, hopefully E3 will have new PS3 games on the show floor, but I somehow doubt it.

laureato di arte
03-17-2006, 11:03 AM
Yeah I'm not saying they showed Pinata because of the PS3, I was just saying they have been commenting about the Revolution more than once. They never do so about the PS3 itself tho as far as I noticed.

Anyway, hopefully E3 will have new PS3 games on the show floor, but I somehow doubt it.


Yea E3 will be a trully exciting time, this year

innermindseye
03-17-2006, 11:32 AM
Yea E3 will be a trully exciting time, this year

not as much as last year. that was great. iv never had so much enjoyment watching streaming videos on the internet other than when i watched all 3 console presentations... it was like christmas or something. 3 brand new consoles all showcasing the best of what they could do? brilliant.....

pixelmonk
03-17-2006, 12:14 PM
Sorry to deviate from the subject, but I'm not a tech-head so would anyone be kind enough to explain to me the difference between DVD+R and DVD-R. I know DVD+R means recordable (?), but what the hell does -R mean?

recordable. Still confused? :)

laureato di arte
03-17-2006, 12:18 PM
not as much as last year. that was great. iv never had so much enjoyment watching streaming videos on the internet other than when i watched all 3 console presentations... it was like christmas or something. 3 brand new consoles all showcasing the best of what they could do? brilliant.....

yea last year was good , but with regards to nintendo they held back allot of information, at the time, do any of you remember the N-game speculation? Hidden messages written on the walls of e3, mysterious power cuts it was so exciting! Microsoft has already released all the info on the xbox, so the excitement for this years e3 lies with sony and nintendo. will the Gameboy evolution finally be announced, how about Zelda dual swords. Judging by the hype nintendo are building up for this event, they are preparing to release a megaton.

S-m-i-l-e
03-17-2006, 02:55 PM
"Our Sony representative has confirmed this morning that PlayStation 3 will come with a 60GB HDD as standard, but that can be upgraded if preferred.

Some of the larger US websites have been speculating that PlayStation 3 would be shipping with an optional 60GB hard disc drive. However we can confirm this morning that all PS3 consoles will be sold with the HDD out of the box. Sony's president of Computer Entertainment, Ken Kutaragi, announced on Wednesday that all PS3 games are being developed to take advantage of the 60GB HDD."

Link (http://uk.videogames.games.yahoo.com/25/news/ps3-will-have-hard-drive-as-standard-3c0925.html)

PhilOsirus
03-17-2006, 05:49 PM
So does that mean it will be external?

heavyness
03-17-2006, 09:34 PM
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/03/17/confirmed-playstation-3-will-ship-with-60-gb-hdd/

more on the HDD. good for consumes, bad for the final price of the PS3. we know the specs, some titles, and a date... we just need that magic number now... i'm guessing E3 we'll here the price tag.

laureato di arte
03-17-2006, 10:33 PM
Ballmer happy, Miyamoto neutral to PS3 delay

Microsoft's CEO drools over delay of Sony's console, says 360 will be first to 10 million sold; Nintendo guru doesn't see competition from PS3.

Everyone has an opinion on Sony's recent announcement of a worldwide November launch for its PlayStation 3. Although Sony hadn't shown signs of wavering from its initial spring 2006 release date, many industry analysts correctly predicted that it would be released in late 2006, and some even believed it wouldn't be released until early 2007.

Japanese game publishers have let their voice be heard, message boards have been blowing up with gamers' opines, and now, head honchos from Sony's two chief rivals have chimed in.

Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer let his feelings be heard loud and clear, unlike his coworker, Microsoft Game Studios general manager Shane Kim, who claimed (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6146091.html) "leaders don't react." Ballmer, speaking with Fortune (http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/17/technology/ballmer_fortune/index.htm), believes the delay means great things for his company's next-generation console, the Xbox 360.

"In every other generation, the first guy to 10 million consoles was the number one seller in the generation. Did we just get an even better opportunity to be the first guy to 10 million? Yeah, of course we did," Ballmer told Fortune.

The delay gives Microsoft a bit of breathing room to catch up on production for the Xbox 360, which has been in short supply since its release in November. Microsoft has set a target of 4.5 to 5.5 million Xbox 360s sold through June, the end of the tech giant's fiscal year. If Ballmer's claims prove accurate, the 360 will have approximately 5 million units in homes, with nearly five months more to increase its head start before Sony even ships its first PS3.

When asked about the PS3's Blu-ray drive, Ballmer brushes off any notion of an advantage.

"Sony's going to try and define that as a fundamental battleground, but I don't think it is a fundamental battleground. I don't care whether it's Blu-ray or HD-DVD--there's not going to be a lot of content in either format this year."

While Ballmer clearly saw the PS3 delay as an advantage, another heavyweight in the industry, Nintendo executive Shigeru Miyamoto, doesn't think the announcement really affects his company's next-gen machine, the Revolution. He shared his feelings, or lack thereof, with The Guardian (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/archives/2006/03/16/shigeru_miyamoto_interview.html).

"We don't see it as a competition between [the PS3 and Revolution], although the customers always do," said Miyamoto, the creator of games such as Super Mario Bros. and The Legend of Zelda. "Sony has taken a long time to create their machine but it is obvious that the direction we are taking [with the Revolution] is different [than the direction Sony is taking with] the PS3."

Nintendo has not yet set a release date for the Revolution.

PhilOsirus
03-17-2006, 11:40 PM
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/03/17/confirmed-playstation-3-will-ship-with-60-gb-hdd/

more on the HDD. good for consumes, bad for the final price of the PS3. we know the specs, some titles, and a date... we just need that magic number now... i'm guessing E3 we'll here the price tag.

This is very good news because developers have been asking for it. This is a big plus. Also, a 60gb cost to Sony at most 35$.

In other news Sony stocks were up today and so have been most video game publishers this week (well let's say it was a better week than the last 4 or so).

tozz
03-18-2006, 12:24 AM
Indeed, a guaranteed harddrive will make game devs make use of it, it won't be a gimmick in a few games but really used widely. Bringing up the price? Say Sony makes a deal with Seagate or something for 20million harddrives@60gb and it won't be that much of an increase.

Kyan
03-18-2006, 12:28 AM
Indeed, a guaranteed harddrive will make game devs make use of it, it won't be a gimmick in a few games but really used widely. Bringing up the price? Say Sony makes a deal with Seagate or something for 20million harddrives@60gb and it won't be that much of an increase.

Yeah, cause it was used by every developer on the Xbox. /sarcasm

tozz
03-18-2006, 12:47 AM
Yeah, cause it was used by every developer on the Xbox. /sarcasm
Western devs have a little(huge) problem with embracing technology, and since XBOX only had a bunch of american made games it's no supprise there was no innovation at all (this is the sarcasm you're looking for?). Also, the availabily of HD was what made the XBOX sell in such huge numbers, not for the purposes it was designed for though.

XBOX was ahead of its time with a harddrive, that doesn't make it less usefull today, especially not when the world seems to scream for online content, downloadable addons, patches etc etc. Now, if a console has a harddrive, you can spend time creating this stuff and make some money of it, but why would you do so when 50% or more of the player base sits there without the harddrive?
There's still no real solid info on what Sony will bring to the table when it comes to online experience, but I have a hard time figuring out stuff that wouldn't benefit of a harddrive.

P_T
03-18-2006, 01:39 AM
XBOX was ahead of its time with a harddrive, that doesn't make it less usefull today, especially not when the world seems to scream for online content, downloadable addons, patches etc etc.

I reckon it's a step back if people have to dload patches for games. They'd be going the PC games way where the dev can say "oh f**k this, just release the damn game and we'll patch the bugs later".

white dragon
03-18-2006, 02:41 AM
I can see where you're coming from with the anti-patch angle, but after several years spent on Xbox Live I see it now only as a good thing. Rather than the PC sort of patch where basically it lets people release buggy games a fix them later (BF2 anyone?), the xbox seems to use them to iron out cheating (Halo 2 and Pro Evo) and other little fixes that enhance the existing gameplay. I really think the PS3 is going to have to have some good online support to keep up with the Xbox as my time on games is now pretty much split 50/50 with ona nd offline gaming.

P_T
03-18-2006, 03:33 AM
Let's just hope that'll always be the case, although somehow I doubt it, people have this tendency to take advantage of anything if they're given the chance. For now it's little things like "cheat fix" or "enhancements" but later when they're trying to rush a release for being delayed or just to beat a competition or for whatever reason, they'll probably start using that "release first, patch later" method.

Sony have their own line of MMORPG right? can't remember what it's called. My point is, they can have use it to expand on that MMO franchise by using their own online service. Also probably to get SquareEnix back to produce solely for their console. FFXI would probably never be in XBOX LIVE if Sony already have their own online service established.

heavyness
03-18-2006, 06:43 AM
the reason patches are becoming more and more common is because more and more games are going online. in the days before console games went online, it was much easier to tell if someone was using an exploit, and if they were, you simply unplug their controller [endless combos in Tekken anyone?].

now, when people go online and battle for rank, you can't simply just tell the person next to you to stop cheating... a patch has to come in and fix it.

you can either complain about glitches that wrecks a game, or complain about downloading a patch that takes 10 seconds total to download and install by simply pressing a button.

DevilHacker
03-18-2006, 07:24 AM
recordable. Still confused? :)Your joking right?
You need an RW for an recordable...
:D

P_T
03-18-2006, 08:33 AM
the reason patches are becoming more and more common is because more and more games are going online. in the days before console games went online, it was much easier to tell if someone was using an exploit, and if they were, you simply unplug their controller [endless combos in Tekken anyone?].

now, when people go online and battle for rank, you can't simply just tell the person next to you to stop cheating... a patch has to come in and fix it.

you can either complain about glitches that wrecks a game, or complain about downloading a patch that takes 10 seconds total to download and install by simply pressing a button.

Well if the exploits wreck the game so bad, it shouldn't even be there in the first place right? that's what beta testing is for. I mean, I've played games where I noticed exploits or bugs within the first few days of playing them.

I'm not saying that games have to be bug free when they're released, I know that's too difficult. All I'm saying is that the developers won't feel as much pressure to release less buggy products with this patch dload method available to them.

Like I said earlier, I hope it's just used for those little cheat fixes or enhancements. We'll see if it stays that way or if console games become another "release now fix later" victim.

tozz
03-18-2006, 10:56 AM
I reckon it's a step back if people have to dload patches for games. They'd be going the PC games way where the dev can say "oh f**k this, just release the damn game and we'll patch the bugs later".
Well, I agree, but ask any developer and they probably won't. Testing of a game is a long and slow process and it probably costs alot too. I really don't think any developer is thinking "this is buggy as hell, but we'll release it anyway", but it's rather the publishers that force the early releases.

P_T
03-18-2006, 01:55 PM
My mistake and my apology. My point is, whoever's responsible for releasing these games would think twice about releasing a buggy version if there's no crutch in the form of patch download.

laureato di arte
03-18-2006, 02:24 PM
My mistake and my apology. My point is, whoever's responsible for releasing these games would think twice about releasing a buggy version if there's no crutch in the form of patch download.

oooooooooooh pls post something your number of posts is making me feel very uncomfertable lol lol

"
David W.
Sydney, Australia
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 666"

yea i understand were you are coming from with that point, funnily enough i actually understand erik as well. There may well be the publishers who are rushing the developers to bring out games on time.

Kyan
03-18-2006, 02:49 PM
Western devs have a little(huge) problem with embracing technology, and since XBOX only had a bunch of american made games it's no supprise there was no innovation at all (this is the sarcasm you're looking for?). Also, the availabily of HD was what made the XBOX sell in such huge numbers, not for the purposes it was designed for though.

XBOX was ahead of its time with a harddrive, that doesn't make it less usefull today, especially not when the world seems to scream for online content, downloadable addons, patches etc etc. Now, if a console has a harddrive, you can spend time creating this stuff and make some money of it, but why would you do so when 50% or more of the player base sits there without the harddrive?
There's still no real solid info on what Sony will bring to the table when it comes to online experience, but I have a hard time figuring out stuff that wouldn't benefit of a harddrive.

Why would you incur the costs of a HDD when something like 10% of console gamers go online? A 60+ GB HDD isn't going to be cheap for Sony or the consumer. The rest (majority) just need a memory card for their game saves. Why should they have to shell out the extra money for something they'll never use?

Online content and downloadable add-ons are available on the Xbox 360 marketplace and many people download them, but not everyone. Those who don't go online really don't have a reason for the HDD, or to pay the extra $100 for it.

Letting developers release incomplete games so they can patch it later is absolutely horrible. Not everyone will go online (even if everything comes in the box, ready to go) so where are they left? With a buggy game?

white dragon
03-18-2006, 02:53 PM
The HDD also let games makers copy disk content onto the machine allowing for faster access time. Just compare multi console versions of the same game, such as Soul Calibur 2, the Xbox loading times were almost non existant compared to the PS2 version. I agree that not everyone plays online but that's not the only reason for having a hard disk, besides $100 for a 60GB disk from Sony? I'd happily pay that when you consider they're still asking £20 for an 8MB card!!!

RobertoOrtiz
03-18-2006, 02:56 PM
One of the problems I have with HD is that Sony has NOT given a reason why people need it.


I mean when DVD's came in the market it was not a no brainer, and a big selling point was the extras that a dvd came with.


-R

Kyan
03-18-2006, 03:06 PM
The HDD also let games makers copy disk content onto the machine allowing for faster access time. Just compare multi console versions of the same game, such as Soul Calibur 2, the Xbox loading times were almost non existant compared to the PS2 version. I agree that not everyone plays online but that's not the only reason for having a hard disk, besides $100 for a 60GB disk from Sony? I'd happily pay that when you consider they're still asking £20 for an 8MB card!!!

Loading times have more to do with software than they do hardware. Sure, there's some benefit but I don't think it's worth the extra money.

I experience some very small, almost non-existant loading times on my HDDless PS2. Jak & Daxter comes to mind.

The $100 was just a figure I came up with...that and I can't imagine myself paying more than that for what basically comes down to a massive memory card.

tozz
03-18-2006, 03:52 PM
Loading times have more to do with software than they do hardware. Sure, there's some benefit but I don't think it's worth the extra money.

I experience some very small, almost non-existant loading times on my HDDless PS2. Jak & Daxter comes to mind.

The $100 was just a figure I came up with...that and I can't imagine myself paying more than that for what basically comes down to a massive memory card.

I payed like $60 for two Gamecube memory cards and they got full, now please explain why this is a better sollution than a harddrive... And considering you get ~160gb for $100 (buying it in a store) I'd say the harddrive cost for Sony in PS3 would come closer to ~$40 considering contracts etc and sheer volume. So, even if it's only used as a memory card it far exceeds memory cards with flash type memory, even for the casual consumer.

Have you looked at the percent of gamers going online for the last years, what does that tell you? This is a machine that will have to have selling points in 4-5years (as with the PS2) and a harddrive is a strong one, especially if they get additional downloadable content etc etc.

As for developers releasing unfinished games, they have been for the last 10 years, been sleeping under a rock? At least let them have a shot at fixing them...

Kyan
03-18-2006, 04:36 PM
I payed like $60 for two Gamecube memory cards and they got full, now please explain why this is a better sollution than a harddrive... And considering you get ~160gb for $100 (buying it in a store) I'd say the harddrive cost for Sony in PS3 would come closer to ~$40 considering contracts etc and sheer volume. So, even if it's only used as a memory card it far exceeds memory cards with flash type memory, even for the casual consumer.

I suppose this depends how much it's worth to you. Myself, I have one Gamecube memory card with 12 different games' saves and it's not even half way full. The memory card is adequate for me, a hard drive would have been over kill.

My Xbox, I have 17 games and an entire cd on there (just to do it) and it still tells me there is 8+ GB's available. I never went online with Xbox. That HDD was wasted on me, and I'm certain there were many others who never touched the capacity of storage given to them. So I ask, why should I have to pay for it? Why should Microsoft practically give it away when there's no payback? Solution: make those who want it, pay for it. And cater to those who don't want it by offering a non-hdd solution.

Microsoft lost out on revenue they could have gained from accessories like memory cards, and it's one of the reasons they lost some 4 billion on the Xbox venture.

Have you looked at the percent of gamers going online for the last years, what does that tell you? This is a machine that will have to have selling points in 4-5years (as with the PS2) and a harddrive is a strong one, especially if they get additional downloadable content etc etc.

No doubt that the percentage of online gamers will continue to grow, but it's not like it will magically increase from 10% to %50+ over night. It's still not a reason to make everyone who wants a PS3 pay for something they won't use.

Again, not everyone will care about additional downloadable content. Why should those people care about a HDD?

As for developers releasing unfinished games, they have been for the last 10 years, been sleeping under a rock? At least let them have a shot at fixing them...

The last thing I want is for the console gaming front to turn into the PC, with numerous patches for certain games. It's one of the reasons I don't like PC gaming. Freezing, glitches, and such are unacceptable in my opinion. Why should I lower my standards?

white dragon
03-18-2006, 04:49 PM
It all depends on the game you play. Look at somehting like Pokemon, the Sims, or Animal Crossing, they came with a free memory card because that one game alone would eat up a single card. Same for the PS2 version of the Sims, Championship Manager and a lot of others. And you need a memory card to play those, so you're talking £29-39 for the game, then an extra £20 for a memory card? I's much rather just have a machine with a hard drive like the xbox and never have to worry about it, or pay extra. People also like adding their own soundtracks to games, ripping CDs and playing them in games like GTA.

I always assumed games like Ninja Gaiden used the HDD to uncompress files and leave them on the machine for fast access next time you play. Compare the loading times the first time you put that game in your machine to the next time you play it. I assume (and again I just make the pretty graphics, I know nothing of game coding!) that this is the same deal with PC games. They unpack a load of data and shove it on the hard drive. I assume this is the way all console games are heading too so a HDD will be required.

laureato di arte
03-18-2006, 04:55 PM
I can see your points of view. What is sony planning to do with this 60 gig hdd? I have heard that they may be planning to do a virtual console idea similar to that of the revolution, so maybe all that disk space would be used for that :shrug: I can also understand what some of you mean though, I cant see every PS3 owner using a 60gig hdd, allot of hardcore gamers would , but IMHO allot of playstation owners are casual gamers who wouldnt use all of the consoles features. I guess we are yet to see huh?

P_T
03-18-2006, 05:17 PM
I don't really get what the big deal is with online games. I just finished playing BF2 and earlier some f**ktard just laid there on my tank and if I moved I would've TKed him and got punished for it eventho it's not my fault. It happened eventually when I faced off with enemy tank and had to move and take cover. He then disconnected before I could repay him.

When you play online you have to deal with more than just a few anonymous assholes who get their kicks out of pissing people off. I'd choose LAN gaming over Net anytime, at least then I can do something about it.

When I get my PS3, I doubt I'll be using the online service plus I'll probably be playing more Revo with mates anyway so yeah that 60GB HDD will be wasted on me so unless it's a necessity to play the games, I'd rather not have it.

PS. You've seen the video for FFXI at some FF convention? the producer looked like a Grease reject with his slick haircut and leather jacket.

white dragon
03-18-2006, 05:29 PM
What are they planning on doing with a 60GB disk? I'm guessing they hope to have a download feature for demos, trailers, movies maybe? Like the PS3 with Sony Pictures and they could make a lot of money? I have to say I never thought I'd use a lot of my HDD on the 360, but being able to download a game demo is excellent and means I don't have to pay £5-6 for a magazine I don't want to read just to see if I want to pay £45 for a game. But never mind that, my question is more if they think you'll only need a 60GB HDD, why do they need 50GB blu-ray disks?

white dragon
03-18-2006, 05:34 PM
And yes, sadly playing with annoying people is all part of the online experience. While there are idiots in the world there will be idiots online.... and 10 year old american kids screaming "you f***ing noob!" .

As for the FFXI guys looking like Grease rejects, do you actually think anyone in the games industry looks good? There's a reason why we have to sit infront of a computer all day rather than actually go out :)

Kyan
03-18-2006, 05:37 PM
What are they planning on doing with a 60GB disk? I'm guessing they hope to have a download feature for demos, trailers, movies maybe? Like the PS3 with Sony Pictures and they could make a lot of money? I have to say I never thought I'd use a lot of my HDD on the 360, but being able to download a game demo is excellent and means I don't have to pay £5-6 for a magazine I don't want to read just to see if I want to pay £45 for a game. But never mind that, my question is more if they think you'll only need a 60GB HDD, why do they need 50GB blu-ray disks?

There's no NEED for a 50GB blu-ray disc. It's Sony's way of pushing their format. If Blu-Ray doesn't succeed then Sony will hurt...badly.

tozz
03-18-2006, 05:40 PM
The last thing I want is for the console gaming front to turn into the PC, with numerous patches for certain games. It's one of the reasons I don't like PC gaming. Freezing, glitches, and such are unacceptable in my opinion. Why should I lower my standards?

Comparing PC gaming to console is like comparing an apple to a diamond. Sure, the shape can be somewhat similar, but that's about all that's similar too. Releasing a PC game that won't need patching would require testing on about 200000 different combinations of hardware, it's just not viable, when you go into PC gaming you should understand that. You don't race in F1 if you're afraid of speed. If you play PC games you've already put your standards at the lowest possible step when we're talking about stability and bugs.

As for what will happen with the harddrive, time will tell. But I rather spend money on a disk than useless memorycards that's overpriced. I think 60gb is the break point for usability/price as 20gig was for XBOX. At least it doesn't sound that unreasonable right? And it was said you will be able to upgrade the drive if you need more space.

white dragon
03-18-2006, 05:41 PM
So what exactly are they planning to do with the blu-ray then? Is it meant to replace DVDs? Will it be used for films or just game companies? If it will really hurt them why release it while the UMD format is still starting out?

tozz
03-18-2006, 05:41 PM
There's no NEED for a 50GB blu-ray disc. It's Sony's way of pushing their format. If Blu-Ray doesn't succeed then Sony will hurt...badly.
Ah, Square Enix must be retarded people making games that eats 10gb, yeah, that must be it, surely there's absolutely no need what so ever for more storage... sigh.

white dragon
03-18-2006, 05:43 PM
Which Square Enix uses up 10GB?

Kyan
03-18-2006, 05:50 PM
Comparing PC gaming to console is like comparing an apple to a diamond. Sure, the shape can be somewhat similar, but that's about all that's similar too. Releasing a PC game that won't need patching would require testing on about 200000 different combinations of hardware, it's just not viable, when you go into PC gaming you should understand that. You don't race in F1 if you're afraid of speed. If you play PC games you've already put your standards at the lowest possible step when we're talking about stability and bugs.

As for what will happen with the harddrive, time will tell. But I rather spend money on a disk than useless memorycards that's overpriced. I think 60gb is the break point for usability/price as 20gig was for XBOX. At least it doesn't sound that unreasonable right? And it was said you will be able to upgrade the drive if you need more space.

Hey, it's why I don't game on my PC.

I'll buy whatever suits my needs. If it's a harddrive then I'll get a harddrive. If I just need something for a few game saves then I'd rather get a memory card (so long as it's relatively less expensive).

Kyan
03-18-2006, 05:54 PM
So what exactly are they planning to do with the blu-ray then? Is it meant to replace DVDs? Will it be used for films or just game companies? If it will really hurt them why release it while the UMD format is still starting out?

blu-ray and hd-dvd are meant to be DVD's replacement. Sony is using their blu-ray for film and games. The latter being mandatory if they develop on PS3, whether they need the space or not.

Do they need the space? There aren't many games that come close to filling up a DVD9 (about 8 GB's of storage). In fact, the most recent Xbox 360 games like Kameo and PDZ fill up about half of it. Microsoft argues that with better compression techniques DVD9 will be adequate for this generation.

UMD...haha. I take it you didn't catch the article(s) about Hollywood pulling back from the UMD.

Kyan
03-18-2006, 05:57 PM
Ah, Square Enix must be retarded people making games that eats 10gb, yeah, that must be it, surely there's absolutely no need what so ever for more storage... sigh.

What Squenix game uses 10GB?

Square likes to use FMV in all their games, and that takes up space very quickly.

white dragon
03-18-2006, 06:05 PM
But who will actually use the blu-ray format for their games? Some games still come out on cd-rom for the PS2, it's just cheaper to manufactor, and I assume that the blu-ray disks will be more expensive for games companies than DVDs are? So if they aren't using a DVD to the max, why would they pay to have their game burnt onto a more expensive disk, meaning less profit for them? Films I can see being a bonus, it'll get rid of 2 disk editions, maybe even box sets, although truth be told, I like 2 disk sets and box sets, makes me feel like I've got something for my money ;)

"UMD...haha. I take it you didn't catch the article(s) about Hollywood pulling back from the UMD."

Yeah I did, that's kind of my point, shouldn't they be worrying about that first, before they both just end up going the way of the mini-disk? The Hollywood thing though was a no brainer. If you're going to make films on a format that only people with a PSP can watch, and charge more than a DVD for it, and then not have any extra features? Please! :)

Kyan
03-18-2006, 06:09 PM
But who will actually use the blu-ray format for their games? Some games still come out on cd-rom for the PS2, it's just cheaper to manufactor, and I assume that the blu-ray disks will be more expensive for games companies than DVDs are? So if they aren't using a DVD to the max, why would they pay to have their game burnt onto a more expensive disk, meaning less profit for them? Films I can see being a bonus, it'll get rid of 2 disk editions, maybe even box sets, although truth be told, I like 2 disk sets and box sets, makes me feel like I've got something for my money ;)

"UMD...haha. I take it you didn't catch the article(s) about Hollywood pulling back from the UMD."

Yeah I did, that's kind of my point, shouldn't they be worrying about that first, before they both just end up going the way of the mini-disk? The Hollywood thing though was a no brainer. If you're going to make films on a format that only people with a PSP can watch, and charge more than a DVD for it, and then not have any extra features? Please! :)

Sony said that all games for PS3 will be blu-ray. There is no option. It should be in the press release on the first page, if not I will get you a link.

Personally, I don't feel the need to abandon my DVD collection or buying yet.

What can Sony do if nobody wants to buy UMD's? Not much.

tozz
03-18-2006, 06:14 PM
What Squenix game uses 10GB?

Square likes to use FMV in all their games, and that takes up space very quickly.
So it's only pure code that's allowed to take up space?

Final Fantasy X is two DVD5 in Europe.
Then I'll have to take back my Square Enix statement, FF12 will be DVD-9, but dunno the size. What I was thinking about was Xenosaga, and it's Namco -_- (and only 8gb).
1. 8.05GB USA Xenosaga
2. 8.02GB PAL Champions of Norrath
3. 7.94GB JAP GRAN TURISMO Concept(Traditional Chinese Version) SCPS55903
4. 7.94GB JAP Xenosaga
5. 7.93GB USA God of War
6. 7.74GB USA Champions of Norrath (SLUS: 20565)

Still no need for another medium other than DVD? These are old games too, and low resolution.

Remember the article about Xbox360 devs complaining about the low storage space on DVD? Microsoft ofcourse said it was due to crappy compression, but I rather have the machine do visiuals and audio, rather than decompressing highly compressed textures.

Kyan
03-18-2006, 06:21 PM
So it's only pure code that's allowed to take up space?

Final Fantasy X is two DVD5 in Europe.
Then I'll have to take back my Square Enix statement, FF12 will be DVD-9, but dunno the size. What I was thinking about was Xenosaga, and it's Namco -_- (and only 8gb).
1. 8.05GB USA Xenosaga
2. 8.02GB PAL Champions of Norrath
3. 7.94GB JAP GRAN TURISMO Concept(Traditional Chinese Version) SCPS55903
4. 7.94GB JAP Xenosaga
5. 7.93GB USA God of War
6. 7.74GB USA Champions of Norrath (SLUS: 20565)

Still no need for another medium other than DVD? These are old games too, and low resolution.

Remember the article about Xbox360 devs complaining about the low storage space on DVD? Microsoft ofcourse said it was due to crappy compression, but I rather have the machine do visiuals and audio, rather than decompressing highly compressed textures.

Xenosaga is an RPG with 10's of hours of gameplay. It's wouldn't be out of the norm for RPG's to ship on more than one DVD, they were shipping on as many as 4 CD's back in the PS era. Nobody complained then, they were just happy to play.

I'd like to think that the 360/PS3/Revolution are sophisticated enough to handle visual and audio AND compression. They have to to some degree. Even with blu-ray there won't be such a thing as uncompressed video/audio.

Compression techniques get better all the time. If Microsoft says that DVD9 is adequate then I'll take their word for it until proven otherwise.

white dragon
03-18-2006, 06:23 PM
FFX is one disk in the UK.

tozz
03-18-2006, 06:28 PM
Xenosaga is an RPG with 10's of hours of gameplay. It's wouldn't be out of the norm for RPG's to ship on more than one DVD, they were shipping on as many as 4 CD's back in the PS era. Nobody complained then, they were just happy to play.

I'd like to think that the 360/PS3/Revolution are sophisticated enough to handle visual and audio AND compression. They have to to some degree. Even with blu-ray there won't be such a thing as uncompressed video/audio.

Compression techniques get better all the time. If Microsoft says that DVD9 is adequate then I'll take their word for it until proven otherwise.
So now we have to consider gameplay too, is it ok for some games to be big, and others not to? If you fill a DVD9 with an action game like God of War, how are you gonna continue with that medium for 3-5 years and increase textures etc? I just don't think devs should have to focus on compression when they don't have to. But I guess we all have different priorities.

Kyan
03-18-2006, 06:33 PM
So now we have to consider gameplay too, is it ok for some games to be big, and others not to? If you fill a DVD9 with an action game like God of War, how are you gonna continue with that medium for 3-5 years and increase textures etc? I just don't think devs should have to focus on compression when they don't have to. But I guess we all have different priorities.

God of War features CG, too.

Textures are already at higher resolutions on Xbox 360 games, and all of the games released thus far are on one disc (many of them failing to fill even half of the DVD9).

tozz
03-18-2006, 07:11 PM
God of War features CG, too.

Textures are already at higher resolutions on Xbox 360 games, and all of the games released thus far are on one disc (many of them failing to fill even half of the DVD9).
CG is part of any game, don't see your point. Sure, you could do all cinematic sequences in-game, but with current technology game engines just fail in comparison.

As for 360 titles, it's a meager bunch right now, most of them merely remakes and not that next gen at all. Now go 3 years ahead and think on how those games will look, and what kind of space they will need. From 4cd's (~2.4gb) on PSX to 8gb on PS2, that's almost 4 times as much and I don't expect anything less from this generation shift.

white dragon
03-18-2006, 07:22 PM
As for 360 titles, it's a meager bunch right now, most of them merely remakes and not that next gen at all.

I fail to see your point here, have you seen PGR3 and Ghost Recon? You couldn't do that on previous consoles. As for saying they're remakes? Are you trying to tell me that Nintendo and Sony don't use existing francises to help launch a console?

Kyan
03-18-2006, 07:35 PM
CG is part of any game, don't see your point. Sure, you could do all cinematic sequences in-game, but with current technology game engines just fail in comparison.

As for 360 titles, it's a meager bunch right now, most of them merely remakes and not that next gen at all. Now go 3 years ahead and think on how those games will look, and what kind of space they will need. From 4cd's (~2.4gb) on PSX to 8gb on PS2, that's almost 4 times as much and I don't expect anything less from this generation shift.

There are plenty of games that don't feature any cg.

Like I said, until proven otherwise. You may keep speculating or hanging onto Sony's everyword, I won't stop you.

tozz
03-18-2006, 07:36 PM
I fail to see your point here, have you seen PGR3 and Ghost Recon? You couldn't do that on previous consoles. As for saying they're remakes? Are you trying to tell me that Nintendo and Sony don't use existing francises to help launch a console? No, please quote me when I do, cause I fail to see why you bring it up. Think ahead, don't think "what's out today". PGR3 and GR might look fancy today but they're still first generation games, and 360 will produce alot better. Again, stop basing everything on today, you have to consider the machines will run for quite a while. Just compare the two different GT's on PS2 if you need an example.
Like I said, until proven otherwise. You may keep speculating or hanging onto Sony's everyword, I won't stop you.
Well, considering Microsoft might release a HD-DVD reader for the 360, I think it's more than Sony who are pushing for "bigger than dvd".

Kyan
03-18-2006, 07:46 PM
No, please quote me when I do, cause I fail to see why you bring it up. Think ahead, don't think "what's out today". PGR3 and GR might look fancy today but they're still first generation games, and 360 will produce alot better. Again, stop basing everything on today, you have to consider the machines will run for quite a while. Just compare the two different GT's on PS2 if you need an example.

Well, considering Microsoft might release a HD-DVD reader for the 360, I think it's more than Sony who are pushing for "bigger than dvd".

Microsoft is releasing an add-on for the 360 later this year, but it's only for movies (at this point in time). Nothing wrong with releasing an add-on that might appease to movie lovers.

My crystal ball broke a while back and I've never been good at forecasting anyway, so I'll just go with what I read.

white dragon
03-18-2006, 07:50 PM
No, please quote me when I do, cause I fail to see why you bring it up.

Your post seemed to suggest to me that you thought this wasn't to be expected.

Think ahead, don't think "what's out today". PGR3 and GR might look fancy today but they're still first generation games, and 360 will produce alot better.

It's a very good point, the first games produced on a system never get to harness the power of the machine. Your point about the leap between the two GTs seems to go against you though as they both came out using the same disk format, the next Ghost Recon and PGR game will come out on the same disks as their respective predasesors despite graphical leaps.

tozz
03-18-2006, 08:23 PM
Your post seemed to suggest to me that you thought this wasn't to be expected.



It's a very good point, the first games produced on a system never get to harness the power of the machine. Your point about the leap between the two GTs seems to go against you though as they both came out using the same disk format, the next Ghost Recon and PGR game will come out on the same disks as their respective predasesors despite graphical leaps.

GT3: just under 4gb.
GT4: just under 8gb.

Please tell me where I'm going against myself, in my eyes that seem like a 100% increase in size?

white dragon
03-18-2006, 08:29 PM
Where are you getting these figures from?

tozz
03-18-2006, 09:24 PM
Where are you getting these figures from?
Sources that fall outside the rules of this forum. You can check them yourself, either by doing some googling or checking the discs yourself.

white dragon
03-18-2006, 09:28 PM
That's why I asked, as the only places I could find can't be mentioned here, and there are saying figures about half the sizes that you're quoting for GT4 and God of War *shrugs*

tozz
03-18-2006, 09:35 PM
That's why I asked, as the only places I could find can't be mentioned here, and there are saying figures about half the sizes that you're quoting for GT4 and God of War *shrugs*
Well, there's the retail version, and the not-so-retail, the size differences will be huge, exept in some cases. Lets just end this discussion as I know it's not looked kindly upon.

white dragon
03-19-2006, 12:01 AM
Indeed! But getting back on track, I have no problem with Sony introducing a new type of media, proved it's correctly supported and needed, or rather needed enough to justify any possible price increases.

innermindseye
03-19-2006, 01:17 PM
Loading times have more to do with software than they do hardware.

I experience some very small, almost non-existant loading times on my HDDless PS2.

You win the prize for stupidest post iv read all day. congratulations :)

iv had my life been taken away from me in front of my very eyes at work waiting for that f*&king machine to load. Its totally pants. Its the slowest loading machine out of that generation and take it from someone who has done testing at EA for same titles on ALL platforms (including handhelds)..

Loading times is ALL to do with hardware. If you experienced very small loading times on your ps2, its because on EVERY other system there was NOT a loading screen at all.... jeez....

Kyan
03-19-2006, 03:43 PM
You win the prize for stupidest post iv read all day. congratulations :)

iv had my life been taken away from me in front of my very eyes at work waiting for that f*&king machine to load. Its totally pants. Its the slowest loading machine out of that generation and take it from someone who has done testing at EA for same titles on ALL platforms (including handhelds)..

Loading times is ALL to do with hardware. If you experienced very small loading times on your ps2, its because on EVERY other system there was NOT a loading screen at all.... jeez....

Think what you want.

The PS2 is also the oldest out of the consoles. The GC doesn't have an HDD either and it loads just as fast as my Xbox in some cases. I experience load times on all my Xbox games. PS2 games like Jak & Daxter have the initial load, then there are no load times.

Also, I just go by what I read. The HDD does help, but in the end how that and the hardware given is utilized still comes down to software.

Anyhow, I do NOT think this is a *technical* issue but a software design issue. It needs to be considered in the initial design process and the game engine and art assets--and level/world layout--need to take this into consideration.

Wise use of textures, reliance on procedurally created content, limiting detail density to allow for sectional streaming, smart streaming grid layout for streaming, aggressive LOD and other tricks to keep a far horizon but not wasting valuable assets on distant items where the detail is unobservable, etc.

While a HDD is faster, the minimum transfer rate is slower than the 12x drive and the maximimum is not even double the 12x drives maximum. HDD do have lower latency though.

After seeing PS2/GCN games with excellent streaming and hearing Epic talk about UE3's streaming tech with the goal of no loading screens I think that it is possible. Hard? Maybe. Too difficult for some first gen games that did not have solid specs to shoot for? Sure. But in the long run there are solutions.


The HDD makes ones life easier for sure, but this is not an issue of "without a HDD we cannot do this". It just takes more planning and time...

In case you're wondering, I got these from a developer forum.

Oh, and lol at using EA as any kind of standard. No offense, but I don't consider anything they make to be cutting edge or take fully advantage of any particular hardware.

RobertoOrtiz
03-19-2006, 04:34 PM
People dont make it personal.

Debate the issues not the individuals.

-R

quyeno
03-19-2006, 05:13 PM
Think what you want.
Oh, and lol at using EA as any kind of standard. No offense, but I don't consider anything they make to be cutting edge or take fully advantage of any particular hardware.

Have you seen Black and Burnout Revenge on PS2 and XBOX? Black is really pushing these platforms to their limts, especially the PS2. Do any games on these platforms looks as good as Black or as effects intensive? Have any games of any genre managed to incorporate as much environment interactivity as Black has managed? Does any racer look half as good as Burnout Revenage AND also run at 60 fps? You would be stupid to disagree that these games aren't taking full potential of the hardware, they were devloped by Criterion, an EA studio. The only other game which i feel is really taxing the PS2 is Shadows of Colossus, simply beautiful.

Peace.

P_T
03-19-2006, 05:32 PM
I thought EA is just the publisher for Black and Burnout? :shrug:

innermindseye
03-19-2006, 06:29 PM
I thought EA is just the publisher for Black and Burnout? :shrug:

Yea, but we still did the testing alongside the development team at the uk studio. Black was mostly developed at criterion, but some of burnout was done at the uk studio campus too.

EA does do crappy games as someone mentioned, but that doesnt make the loading any quicker or slower. We tested Harry Potter GOF (i use this as an example because it was literally on every system) and this allowed me to fully see the differences between consoles.

PC and xbox were the fastest loading by far. Xbox loading was literally brief moments, while on pc it could be almost non-existent. GC was fair as it would take a few seconds, but ps2 took the biscuit, and could take from 30s-a minute to load. This would kill you when having to do a full game complete playthrough in the latter half of the day. Doing one on ps2 meant it would take twice as long because of the amount of time you had to reset your console during testing. A horrible laborious chore.

One thing i will say though is that the xbox had the worst colour representation on scrteen out of all of the consoles. Colours were not vivid and appeared to be dark and muddy. GC had the most vibrant with ps2 coming very close 2nd.

and PSP version?? was totally lameo different to ps2 version. they lowered all the poly counts, textures, and even removed certain sections. It makes you question sony. Why the heck did they say superior to, or same as ps2 graphics?? it obviously isnt. if that were the case they would have done a straight port of harrypotterGOF from ps2 to PSP but it was a complete strip down....

oh well... learning is fun :)

mummey
03-19-2006, 06:48 PM
Yea, but we still did the testing alongside the development team at the uk studio. Black was mostly developed at criterion, but some of burnout was done at the uk studio campus too.

EA does do crappy games as someone mentioned, but that doesnt make the loading any quicker or slower. We tested Harry Potter GOF (i use this as an example because it was literally on every system) and this allowed me to fully see the differences between consoles.

PC and xbox were the fastest loading by far. Xbox loading was literally brief moments, while on pc it could be almost non-existent. GC was fair as it would take a few seconds, but ps2 took the biscuit, and could take from 30s-a minute to load. This would kill you when having to do a full game complete playthrough in the latter half of the day. Doing one on ps2 meant it would take twice as long because of the amount of time you had to reset your console during testing. A horrible laborious chore.

One thing i will say though is that the xbox had the worst colour representation on scrteen out of all of the consoles. Colours were not vivid and appeared to be dark and muddy. GC had the most vibrant with ps2 coming very close 2nd.

and PSP version?? was totally lameo different to ps2 version. they lowered all the poly counts, textures, and even removed certain sections. It makes you question sony. Why the heck did they say superior to, or same as ps2 graphics?? it obviously isnt. if that were the case they would have done a straight port of harrypotterGOF from ps2 to PSP but it was a complete strip down....

oh well... learning is fun :)

care to give some PS3 input (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=315600) while you're at it? ;)

quyeno
03-19-2006, 06:50 PM
i dont think the PSP was ever said to be more powerful than the PS2, just between the ps1 and ps2 powerwise :)

innermindseye
03-19-2006, 07:04 PM
care to give some PS3 input (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=315600) while you're at it? ;)

alas, unfortunately i have had no 1st hand experience with the console. Although i can tell you, just like in that article, our devs have been kicking the crap outta the machines and coming out f'ing and blinding trying to get things to work.... its just a tricky lil bugger, but things are like that when their new. im sure theyll get the hang of it....

also, EA are publishing HL2 on ps3 ;) that was sposed to be top secret news that we werent even supposed to know, but our manager told us so i guess its his fault. he didnt even say we werent to know, our team lead told us after. dont know what the big deal is though. they should have forgot about it. its old. although i am kinda jealous now cos their bound to add SOMEthing new to it.

umm, only thing i know is that the dev kits are pcs that annoy people at the mo, and that the games are nowhere near finished. theres not much more than that too know though i guess.

innermindseye
03-19-2006, 07:06 PM
i dont think the PSP was ever said to be more powerful than the PS2, just between the ps1 and ps2 powerwise :)

im sure i can dig out articles that claim the psp is as powerful and more so than the ps2

laureato di arte
03-19-2006, 10:35 PM
Yea, but we still did the testing alongside the development team at the uk studio. Black was mostly developed at criterion, but some of burnout was done at the uk studio campus too.

EA does do crappy games as someone mentioned, but that doesnt make the loading any quicker or slower. We tested Harry Potter GOF (i use this as an example because it was literally on every system) and this allowed me to fully see the differences between consoles.

PC and xbox were the fastest loading by far. Xbox loading was literally brief moments, while on pc it could be almost non-existent. GC was fair as it would take a few seconds, but ps2 took the biscuit, and could take from 30s-a minute to load. This would kill you when having to do a full game complete playthrough in the latter half of the day. Doing one on ps2 meant it would take twice as long because of the amount of time you had to reset your console during testing. A horrible laborious chore.

One thing i will say though is that the xbox had the worst colour representation on scrteen out of all of the consoles. Colours were not vivid and appeared to be dark and muddy. GC had the most vibrant with ps2 coming very close 2nd.

and PSP version?? was totally lameo different to ps2 version. they lowered all the poly counts, textures, and even removed certain sections. It makes you question sony. Why the heck did they say superior to, or same as ps2 graphics?? it obviously isnt. if that were the case they would have done a straight port of harrypotterGOF from ps2 to PSP but it was a complete strip down....

oh well... learning is fun :)

oh by the way I been looking for a testing job in london for when i finish uni , any advice?:wavey:

PhilOsirus
03-20-2006, 12:17 AM
It doesn't matter how powerfull the console is, it's what is percieved that matters.

Splinter Cell Chaos Theory on Xbox had normal mapping and larger unified maps but on PS2 there was dynamic water, refraction shaders, and the equivalent of displacement mapping (none of which was present on the xbox version). The game was more fun on Xbox, but the idea is that when a company makes a port it should try to use the console's strengths to even things out, not just cut the game.

quyeno
03-21-2006, 03:03 PM
oh by the way I been looking for a testing job in london for when i finish uni , any advice?:wavey:

you should contact HR at EA HQ at chertsey, QA is also based there as well. I dont know if they are hiring testers at the moment, QA roles tend to be contract i think. give them a mail anyway. :)

laureato di arte
03-21-2006, 04:10 PM
you should contact HR at EA HQ at chertsey, QA is also based there as well. I dont know if they are hiring testers at the moment, QA roles tend to be contract i think. give them a mail anyway. :)

thanx bro :thumbsup:

innermindseye
03-23-2006, 01:18 AM
thanx bro :thumbsup:

dude, so sorry i meant to reply but totally forgot! its me btw. cgtalkiests flybynight ;)

anyways, yea well i just finished my 6 months. its pretty cut throat there. everything is project based and we just finished black, burnout 360 and battlefield 360 so they killed our whole miscrosoft compliance team :-s without any notice too. i came in one day, and was told it was over within minutes. they were constantly telling us how well we were doing as all titles past thorugh microsoft certification first time. it was just annoying that they told us the job cuts in the states wouldnt affect us over here when they blatantly did. about 50% of the work force in QA was offed. they dont consider it loss of ea employees as they were all contract testers like me who technically 'dont work for ea'.

they do 3 month rolling contracts of 40 hours minimum a week. its based in chertsey as someone mentioned which is south west oflondon on the m25. you could try applying now but i wouldnt be too hopefull. they will start rehiring soon, but im assuming the majority will be done towards end of summer time which is peak season. i tried sega, and a dedicated agency but they all say its quiet time now.

but when peak season is back in you shouldnt have any problems getting a job. its very entry level for a normal playtester rather than a compliance tester. just talk up the games a lot and list your experience of consoles, reading reviews, analysiss of games and ability to communicate technicalsubject matters. knowing all the terminlogy is important. they give you 2 aptitude tests and an informal interview on interview day. pass those and your in.

if you need any more info lemme know. i could wright some moew but its late and i need sleep. catch ya later dude...

laureato di arte
03-23-2006, 02:18 AM
dude, so sorry i meant to reply but totally forgot! its me btw. cgtalkiests flybynight ;)



Hey bro, i was wondering were you got to... thanx for the info. I went for a similar testing procedure at sega in brentford. The job wasnt really compatible with my schedule hours so that fell through :argh:. Its all good though just a few more months of this awful uni left.

Kion
03-23-2006, 02:32 AM
yep e3 is gonna be great, 360 2nd generation games should look amazing, not the ports that we are seeing now, Nintendo and Sony will be battling it out on the show floor. Its going to be a great show. I'll be there

innermindseye
03-23-2006, 05:46 PM
Hey bro, i was wondering were you got to... thanx for the info. I went for a similar testing procedure at sega in brentford. The job wasnt really compatible with my schedule hours so that fell through :argh:. Its all good though just a few more months of this awful uni left.

hey dude where and what do you study?? the last few months man damn, i know how u feel. keep at it though, and itl all be over before you know it. its the last short mile :)

laureato di arte
03-24-2006, 10:08 AM
hey dude where and what do you study?? the last few months man damn, i know how u feel. keep at it though, and itl all be over before you know it. its the last short mile :)

Yea I was doing computer Science (graphics and Games) at Middlesex University I changed over to business informations systems and IT, because funnily enough it has more multimedia modules. Computer Science graphics and games, title was a bit misleading really I thought that we could choose lots of modules that would help with the more artistic side of gaming rather than the technical sides, since i am awful at programming i changed, to something with more multimedia modules, made a few animations and was pretty happy with myself. Middlesex is an awful uni , they can really mess about with your fees, and student loan, time table, some of the teachers are cool, one actually allowed me to teach the class what i know about after effects:) but i would advise people to stay away from mdx and find another uni , they stink.

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