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Taron333
03-10-2006, 09:58 PM
Alright, as I'm about to go through all the basics, I thought about asking you to simply say what you'd like to see as tutorials...I'm just curious. I've spend so much time with it all, that sometimes I simply don't know anymore what's unknown.

My introduction shows the following:
- loading an object
- turning on metanurbs
- moving the camera and object into place
- simply rendering it
- showing the different rendering tabs at a glance(surfaces, materials, settings, output)
- renaming a material
- adjust object render settings
- ....activating displacement (a bit later in the session)
- adjusting material parameters
- adding shaders
- connecting a shader output to several material inputs
- changing render settings (switching on radiosity, antialiasing)


If you already realize that there's something you'd want to see or you think should be shown, just let me know and I'll see that I regard that in the following sessions!

I'm really not trying to make this tutorial a documentation, but instead I'll show you how to do things directly! If you want to know about individual parameters in depth, you will find that in the documentation then. IF NOT (god forbid)...don't hesitate to helzle us any time! We'll take care of it then immediately! :wip:

SO...ask away, if you want to see specific things in terms of rendering tutorials.

Julez4001
03-10-2006, 10:10 PM
http://flarenova.com/Msx/

You can check my tutorials as I believe everyone has had a minute to check them out.
See if anything int he new rev have change the rules!


I would like to see how you did the little kids face on the messiah site soooooohttp://www.projectmessiah.com/x4/images/Mikey2.jpg

Tutorials

1.For SSS skin - the Taron way
2. Using GI and transluency/transparency (raytrace shadows) without crashing
3. Taking any picture you've done with displacement and go from beginning to end. You pick the model/scene so you can gauge its diffuculty to tutorialized (does not require showing Zbrush or modeling side of things, just hooking up in messiah and using the muscle bones to drive displacement) ie Texture deformer shader

4. using your Dolleye shader - setup and animate.
5. using your ansiotrophic shader to do sheen on poly textured hair or the like or heck, anything worthwhile.
6. BasicShader explanation part duex


Pick any (but all eventually) one.



The SSS effect in these pictures....

http://www.projectmessiah.com/x4/images/gallery/taron/LilDevil.jpg

ArcLightPro
03-10-2006, 10:13 PM
//1st Request... Please start a fresh thread for this... Its time to leave this awful thread//

Thanks for moving this :)

rush123
03-10-2006, 10:18 PM
Taron,

I'd like to see more details on;

Volumetics
Lighting types
Node examples for nodes such as anisotripic, basic shader etc
Image filter
Atmosphere

Thanks
R

Perhaps a project based approach like you did with Neckling.

Thanks again

Taron333
03-10-2006, 11:05 PM
Absolutely, great requests already! Yes, I'm devoting a whole session to the translucency ("SSS").
DollEyes - Great idea, I think I will make a whole session for that one, too!
I'll see that I make a nice shader collection session that covers all of them in brief and that grab particularely complex ones to make singles.

Uh, the image filters....yes, that stuff still needs to be made...hehe...I've got a whole set of things already lined up for that, but I havn't written it, yet. So image filters are still a little open. As soon as they're done, I'll push the tutorials right with it!

Volumetrics and the Atmosphere material - VERY good, yes, I'd love to make a session about that stuff!

Lighting types - Another great one, yes! Very much so...it'll be a very easy one, too, I think! A few of these sections will get cross-covered of course, because they do have a vital influence on each other...like the lighting and shading is more related than usual due to the introduction of light source sizes for the common shading!

As for the rendering setting's Atmosphere, I'll see that I look into this section as well. I honestly havn't dealt as much with that as others did, actually. I wrote my own atmosphere for the material and loved the speed too much. But that's a very potent part of the engine and I'll see that I present it, too. That'll be one of the sessions that'll come a bit later.


GREAT great great....keep it coming, it's already a great set to take care of AND very inspirational!!!

THANK YOU!!! :thumbsup:
:beer:

Taron

Julez4001
03-10-2006, 11:40 PM
Hey I don't mean to be a selfish but since its more than enough material, lets knock these guys out and come back. How about supplying simple mesh project file so people can follow you and ask questions.

Like after you do them, pst them.
then open up for a week of question on what you did and everyone can be on the same page.

If something crashed or confusing, we can all dissect it.

And study under the great master Taron and his dancing messiah render engine.

After that and peple got their feet wet then you can reopen the list for new tutorials with a set ALREADY DONE. An I promised I won't be in the next group.


Just a suggestion.

Taron333
03-11-2006, 01:16 AM
Great suggestion! We might do it just like that! :thumbsup:

SpikeWorx
03-11-2006, 05:00 AM
Alright, as I'm about to go through all the basics, I thought about asking you to simply say what you'd like to see as tutorials...I'm just curious. I've spend so much time with it all, that sometimes I simply don't know anymore what's unknown.

My introduction shows the following:
- loading an object
- turning on metanurbs
- moving the camera and object into place
- simply rendering it
- showing the different rendering tabs at a glance(surfaces, materials, settings, output)
- renaming a material
- adjust object render settings
- ....activating displacement (a bit later in the session)
- adjusting material parameters
- adding shaders
- connecting a shader output to several material inputs
- changing render settings (switching on radiosity, antialiasing)


If you already realize that there's something you'd want to see or you think should be shown, just let me know and I'll see that I regard that in the following sessions!

I'm really not trying to make this tutorial a documentation, but instead I'll show you how to do things directly! If you want to know about individual parameters in depth, you will find that in the documentation then. IF NOT (god forbid)...don't hesitate to helzle us any time! We'll take care of it then immediately! :wip:

SO...ask away, if you want to see specific things in terms of rendering tutorials.
Sounds great.
I would be happy if you could explain the differences between the several AA algorithms. I have no clue what their individual advantages and disadvantages are, when to use them or not and so on.
Iīm not so much interested in a scientific explanation, but some pictures and infos would be great :)
Hmm, and something about cutting down render times -> optimization

Alex_Rooth
03-11-2006, 11:58 AM
Hi Taron

Thank you for offering to do this. I would like a very simple tutorial on rendering an object using a normal map generated in zbrush. I want to be able to use messiah to do turntable style renderings of models detailed in zbrush.

And here's a question. After the recent discussion, I tried a few test renders. Why, after the second AA pass, does the rendered image immediately get a soft blur? The blur is too much imho, and puts the object out of focus. I have been tweaking anti aliasing levels and the motion blur settings, but not to much effect. I have also played around with camera settings. The AA / motion blur settings seem the same as on your Butch scene, for example. All I am doing is loading an object (OBJ format), adjusting it on heading, and hitting F9.

I don't know if this is covered in the docs. If so, my mistake, but it is this kind of thing with the renderer that I find dispiriting. I just want to load an object and render it. In the middle of typing this e-mail I have spent about half an hour tweaking settings, comparing my scene with messiah default scenes, and I still can't see what is causing the problem. I suppose it is an anti-aliasing issue because if I turn it off, the object is crisp (but with jaggies). To make a comparison, in Lightwave, I can just load an object and render it, and it will look good; with messiah, there always seem to be little issues in the way. I'm not having a go at messiah - I sincerely want to get more out of it. From your pics on the pmg site, it seems that messiah may be the best solution at the moment for me to render zbrushed models. This is how I personally see myself using it.

Thanks for any help

Alex

Lex1342
03-11-2006, 05:18 PM
Hi Taron,

it is really great to hear that there will be tutorials on the topics mentioned above. I think the most important one will be a "getting started-tutorial" that will put everybody in a position to explore the render-engine effectively, without getting frustrated. But all the other topics sound very interesting too - for diving deeper into Messiah:Render. I look really forward to your tutorials, especially SSS, DollEyes and the ones on the animated displacement/Texture (bone-driven) ala Neckling (Julezī no. 3)

Maybe a last wish: If the next update will actually have particles and hair, I would like to see some introduction-vids on how to render these effects to their optimal look.

Thanks again for taking this step - it will definitely help to get Messiah the attention it deserves.

LX

crossbones
03-11-2006, 06:44 PM
I am very happy to see you are really helping the users by taking time out of your busy busy schedule!!!

PLease show how the render integrates with the animation tools. I remember you saying how it could do powerful things when you tie them together somehow.

I want to see you go through a character, something as simple as the example you created called "Chuck" and create things like animated displacements along with the cool tools like TextureDeform (if I can remember correctly). YOu did this demo for Siggraph 2004 where the character would roll its head around and its muscles would activate. It would be cool to see how you create those expressions to automate things.

I would also like to see how you attain some of your real world lighting scenarios with the render, on things like skin, the veins in the eye etc.

MoodyB
03-11-2006, 07:18 PM
And here's a question. After the recent discussion, I tried a few test renders. Why, after the second AA pass, does the rendered image immediately get a soft blur? The blur is too much imho, and puts the object out of focus.
Alex

Try using Adaptive AA with the threshold at 0.015, instead of Enhanced or Soft.

Taron333
03-11-2006, 09:56 PM
AA Patterns:
I hate "enhanced AA" and never use it, but the principle behind it is very clever and just needs some optimizing...for now I do recommend, too, to use the adaptive AA instead!
As for the AA Patterns...well, they are mostly just different patterns and show different pro's and con's...the default mode(Hammersley) is what we found most versatile. Just play around with them and see what you like best. Zoom into antialiased edges for instance to check out the actual values! It's very interesting. Some show particularely different results using motionblur...curious stuff, really. I'm not an expert on pattern, though...I'm almost in the same position as you are. Except I've played with it until we've decided to stick with Hammerley as default.

the depth of tutorials:
Anyway, YES, crossbones is absolutley right about the connection between animation and rendering, just like the Neckling Scene requests further down in the posts it asks for a tutorial that shows more than just the basics of how these sections interact. I'll make an advanced one for that eventually. But that's absolutely high profile stuff and can't really be free tutorials, actually. It would mean quite a lot of work for me that is really not directly related to the "sales" of messiah.
I'm so sorry to even mention that here, but I really ask you guys to understand me. I havn't done them, yet, but when the time has come I'd want to know that you'd be willing to actually support me morally on selling such a heavy tutorial...or even buy it...or at least tell me how you liked it, once you were done with "torrent"-ing it.

I could only squeeze in a very simplified set of hints, but it's really so easy. I have little doubt you'll figure it all out anyway.

A little tip on the side:
DON'T JUST SIT THERE and wait for tutorials to regurgitate it all for you, really! The whole software is so pleasantly easy, once you've taken the basic ideas in. I really just want to get you started, really! You'll see that there's endless possibilities and experiments and all of that just waiting for you! Each little bit you understand should carry you a very long way.

Oh, back to the main program....tutorials:
If you want to showcase models with normalmaps you should just flip Z in Zbrush of the normalmap, because Zbrush looks at the world from behind...hah...eh....black is far away, white is closest, Z positive points to you as opposed to away from you. SO, flipping that is now no problem in Zbrush anymore thanx to the great Zmapper! I used it once...it's interesting.
I'll make a little tutorial that'll cover that, too! It's a very good idea! It'll be in the bundle session that deals with several shaders!

AGAIN, what a GREAT set of requests! I'm really enjoying this! I think I should stop it right there, because it really looks like enough work for me! As I told you in the beginning, I was already recording a simple little "getting started" clip, that really just shows you a session. Now I think I'll have to give it some audio commentary as well..haha....havn't done that, yet.
I will let this thing be a little test clip and would love to get your feedback on it. Whether it's been ok to watch, understandable and if it got you to start with something. HEY, I'd totally love a little showcase thread to see the aftermath of watching the tuts.... ....hmmm... ...that's just asking for trouble here. I really mean that I'd love to see if they were helping! :eek:

crossbones
03-12-2006, 11:34 AM
We are with you Taron!!! :applause:

catizone
03-12-2006, 04:56 PM
Taron,

Thanks for taking this on. The whole materials and rendering has been a bit daunting since it is so different than Lightwave. Altho' I've used messiah from the beginning, I never really dove into the materials and rendering.

Can't wait.

Best,
Rick

Lex1342
03-12-2006, 04:57 PM
hey Taron,

like crossbone just wrote: We are in there with you!!

I would have bought a lot more tutorials like the ones of Joe Cosman and Wegg. But there are just none...

If you are doing any tutorials that are more advanced and rather hard to compose, I would be glad to buy those. So you got my vote (or money) for those plans.

Thanks for popping in and giving those news. We really apprciate it!

LX

Bugpoo
03-12-2006, 05:33 PM
I have had the same impression of the render side of messiah as Rick. I look forward to using that side of the program in the near future.

Peace,
Shane

Alex_Rooth
03-12-2006, 08:34 PM
MoodyB - thanks, those AA settings give a much better result. Also, thanks Taron, for the response. I'm looking forward to your tutorials.

Alex

isobarxx
03-12-2006, 08:38 PM
Hey awesome. What Julez said,

".For SSS skin - the Taron way
2. Using GI and translucency/transparency (raytrace shadows) without crashing
3. Taking any picture you've done with displacement and go from beginning to end. You pick the model/scene so you can gage its difficulty to tutorialized (does not require showing Zbrush or modeling side of things, just hooking up in messiah and using the muscle bones to drive displacement) ie Texture deformer shader

4. using your Dolleye shader - setup and animate.
5. using your ansiotrophic shader to do sheen on poly textured hair or the like or heck, anything worthwhile.
6. BasicShader explanation part duex"

...and the application of these 6 things: how to use messiah's lights and render settings to get highly realistic looking renders for indoor AND outdoor scenes. I'd really like to hear what you have to say about achieving realism, knowing as you do, the actual math behind what's going on.

For instance, here we have the the basic shader. But what is it really doing? How does it treat light across its surface? You hinted about how it's gotten a lot better, but what prompted those improvements? Clearly there was some R&D going on there, so what did you observe? How does it deal with light from the different light types? What works best in certain situations? What's designed to work best?

dobermunk
03-12-2006, 09:01 PM
5. using your ansiotrophic shader to do sheen on poly textured hair or the like or heck, anything worthwhile.

Amen. To get back to this, uv coordinate support for anisotropic wouild be cool.

Gitch
03-13-2006, 06:02 PM
I would like to see a more hands on tutorials where you do it yourself rather then just a show how to if that makes any sense like Joe Cosman's..

SpikeWorx
03-15-2006, 06:11 AM
A little tip on the side:
DON'T JUST SIT THERE and wait for tutorials to regurgitate it all for you, really! The whole software is so pleasantly easy, once you've taken the basic ideas in. I really just want to get you started, really! You'll see that there's endless possibilities and experiments and all of that just waiting for you! Each little bit you understand should carry you a very long way.

I agree with you here.
The only problem I have with experimenting the renderpart is that it feels a bit buggy and unstable.
E.g. Iīve played with the translucency settings and after testing the different options (example surface thickness), it often crashes.
Other renderer Iīve tried are far more stable than Messiah actually is. Not necessarily better, but stability is one of most, if not THE most important 'feature' for me when playing or exploring the render part. I sometimes have the feeling that itīs better not to play with it too much.
If I have no clue what Iīm doing and donīt know about the crash prone parts and situations, Iīm just not motivated enough toying with the render part.
Call it crashphobia that prevents me from experimenting :sad:

Taron333
03-15-2006, 06:24 AM
Huh? Hmmm...could have been that the old translucency was buggy, that's why I wrote the basicShader back then, but we COMPLETELY reworked the NEW TRANSLUCENCY! It's absolutely great now. Not only does it work just like the basicShader (once it's set to a mode called "UniLimit"), but it also works just fine with all lighting types and softshadows and such, which used to be a challenge for the basicShader (and still is!). But it's practically all you need now and I havn't had a SINGLE crash with it, while testing it a lot with all sorts of different circumstances! Also we've added a whole bunch of things to the ordinary material. Reflections and Transparency are now parametrically tintable as well and the specularity/glossiness solution is brand new and interacts with the size of the light, just like the diffuse shading now, too! So even direct lights can have a size and the diffuse shading as well as the highlights respond accordingly! Glossiness also diffuses the specular highlight naturally so that you don't have to adjust specularity levels and glossiness levels at the same time to obtain a natural look! It's by now a whole lot easier to get great looking surfaces right away! Translucency also has now a tinting color and of course everything is texturable! It's a real blast working with it so far! Hmmm....hmmm...hmmm....I might post some examples later....need to do some more work and then.... we'll see! :wip:

crossbones
03-15-2006, 09:36 AM
I would have to disagree about experimenting with the render, I remember when I did the shalien back in the summer time i had one night to futz around with it. I only had one night to learn it. I would attach nodes and do a test render, move the lighting around. Mess with the settings etc.
http://www.reybustos.com//images/Forum_files/yurisnight/009.jpg

It never crashed, I just didn't know what all the funny names for the parameters meant as the documentation wasn't up to date. Yet when I read the neckling post you covered a great deal about the basic shader, but I have to admit it was a little confusing looking at the names and relating them back to what they actually did.

My suggestion to Lyle and to you, a solution that would be similar to the tool tips in Zbrush. Where as you write/create that aspect of messiah create a little popup that describes what the specific function does. It would trigger with a shift and LMB click. I know you are probably going to say just read the manual or experiment.

As far as I am concerned using messiah is a pleasure and continues to be.

gsuttor
03-15-2006, 10:20 PM
<Taron> ...once you've taken the basic ideas in.

I think this is what I'd like to see in the tutorials.
Go right through the very basics of how messiah works, how it all connects together bit by bit, with 'simple' examples. Like you said once people know the basics, the advanced stuff they can discover themselves or learn from others.

That may sound 'obvious' but there is no point having and advanced SSS tutorial on a displaced Z-brushed head with dolls eys morph targets and muscle bones with expressions and particle snot, if you don't know the basics of it all that first.

EvilGnome
03-15-2006, 11:10 PM
I think this is what I'd like to see in the tutorials.
Go right through the very basics of how messiah works, how it all connects together bit by bit, with 'simple' examples. Like you said once people know the basics, the advanced stuff they can discover themselves or learn from others.


I agree completely.

Also, experimentation is a luxury for hobbyists. I want to do some tutorials and hit the ground running with a minimum of messing about in a production environment.

Taron333
03-17-2006, 01:58 AM
So, so, so ....almost there.... I know of only one thing that needs another tweak before release, but so far we're pretty much done! It's working absolutely great and more age-old issues are solved and gone...so pleasant! Finally for all the waiting here's a little quick rendertest. Just made a little guy under the usual hardcore parameters (192 polygons for what you're looking at) and tested out most of the texturing on that one...basically just hooking a bunch of nodes to as many inputs as reasonable for the looks...haha...

http://www.taron.de/Storage/Images/Demo/Canvasili_translucent.jpg

The depth of field is done using the depth buffer and running it through www.frischluft.com (http://www.frischluft.com)'s "Lenscare" - Depth of Field afterFX plugin. .

It's really just a simple test, but I like some of the feel of the exaggerated translucency and it also shows the softshadow interaction quite nicely. It's just a tiny little something to look at, but hey...it's our new standart material and nothing else but that! Except texturemaps and one gradient_fresnel there's no other shader in the flow! :D

The tutorials will show a lot more how the new glossiness and specularity work and feel, too!

Parsec3d
03-17-2006, 05:30 AM
wow! ,, new pants please

Lex1342
03-17-2006, 07:23 AM
:scream::thumbsup: Unbelievable! Wonderful..

I canīt say anything... just that I really look forward to learning from your video(s) about the way you set your renders up...

Great news, that the release date is near :bounce:

Keep up your fantastic work, go PMG!

LX

Wireframes
03-17-2006, 08:52 AM
Wow !

Can't wait :bounce:

catizone
03-17-2006, 01:22 PM
NEAR ! Did Taron say "NEAR"?!!

Well, he said "near" and that rhymes with "here",
But it still means "wait" and that we "hate",
Then again...
They never say "near" unless it's practically "here"...

Enthusiastically,
Rick

Julez4001
03-17-2006, 04:05 PM
Taron is a big Tease!:scream:

ArcLightPro
03-17-2006, 04:32 PM
Taron,

What was the rendering time on that? Looks sweet! Not sweet like in candy. Kind of reminds me of a Navy buddy of mine who developed a bad case of an ellergic reaction to some shellfish.

Bill is that you....

Taron would it be possible for you to post an image of the "before model" and the texture map!

Scratch that if its going to cause a delay in the release at all. Get to work!

Taron333
03-18-2006, 11:27 AM
Hmmm...Bill...sorry to hear about your condition, really! :argh:

Hey, THANX, everyone! I'm really glad you like it...I might just put some eyes into him, hahaha! Nah...I'll make some new stuff for the tutorials then...

Anyway, here's a new render for the timing...didn't remember how long the old render took. This one took 7minutes and 3 seconds on the 2Ghz dual Opteron that I have sitting here.
http://www.taron.de/Storage/Images/Demo/Canvasili_translucent_7m03s.jpg

Here's a look at the geometry:
http://www.taron.de/Storage/Images/Demo/Canvasili_geometry.jpg

I'm checking the release right now! If everything's fine, the setup files are ready! :D

Nichod
03-18-2006, 01:27 PM
Any fixes with the ATI issues?

ArcLightPro
03-18-2006, 09:51 PM
Taron,

Not bad rendering times at all!!!

I'm really curoius about your workflow for some thing like that? That geometry is so simple!!!
Since Messiah doesn't have a paint engine, how do you go about producing something like that? It would seem that you would need a Fprime type previewer in Messiah that would have a "live" connection to Photoshop or something. Do you use any other package for the displacement/texture mapping?



I'm checking the release right now! If everything's fine, the setup files are ready! :D[/QUOTE]

Do you mean... like.... tonight....? Messiah...? or A training / new features video?

Geco
03-18-2006, 10:44 PM
tonite?! :eek:

afaik ZBrush for the displacement/texture mapping.

Taron333
03-18-2006, 10:56 PM
Wow, it's very surprising to get such a question again after such a long and strong success of Zbrush! Yes, I've used Zbrush to create the displacement map AND the color and specularity map, which I also used a bit to control the translucency and the fresnel.

Switching resolutions for the render is very easy and handy and occasionally I do that for quick previews. I also like rendering to the viewport, where I can zoom up lowres renders or play with the limited region to focus on specific areas. They of course always work, viewport or window, but it's just fun and great to move the limited region around in the viewport and just render it....feels just great. :)

The release should be there now...or if not right now then most likely just in a few hours...I tested it and it appears to be just fine, sooooo....it'll be there! :scream:

ArcLightPro
03-18-2006, 11:25 PM
Taron,

What will be there? And Where? The new release of Messiah... ?


Thanks for explaining the Zbrush thing to me. I've been stuck in a dungeon doing military/defense animation for the last 5 years. I'm now just trying to get back into something a little more creative. I'm just dying to get back into something alittle more fun and less dry. So I just recently have been checking up on Messiah and haven't done so since my purchase after Siggraph 2001. After being semi proficent in Maya I could really never jump into Messiah. I could never get wrap my head around the edit sphere, Menu level IK setup, and the perspective window not being the default camera.

From what I last remembered a guy named Fred and Lyle were the force behind Messiah, are they still around?

Is there a place to check out your workflow I would love to see more of it? Is there other progams out there that does that type of displacement effect textures?

Thanks in advance :)

Taron333
03-18-2006, 11:45 PM
Questions over questions...haha! YES, I'm talking about the messiah release, which should be up sometime today! At least it is ready to roll and now it's just a matter of posting it!

My tutorials will reveal a part of my workflow, at least the part inside of messiah. My entire workflow goes like this in brief:
1. Modelling of a lowres metanurb cage (previewed smooth subdivision) in Lightwave3d
2. Making UVmap in Lightwave, too!
3. Zbrushing the heck out of it...really giving the model it's actual shape with details as well.
4. Exporting new/modified lowres cage out of Zbrush
5. Creating and exporting displacement maps and other maps....in and out of Zbrush
6. Getting everything into messiah, making bone setups, making textures, rendering...
7. After effects or photoshop sometimes for final touches.

That's it! :)

ArcLightPro
03-18-2006, 11:46 PM
I Just checked out your website...

I'm truelly humbled...

If you don't mind me asking do you use Zbrush for your modeling too?
Taron Just answered. Thanks!

Spin99
03-18-2006, 11:49 PM
Yeh absolutely amazing stuff :D

Taron the stuff you do with brushes is just mind numbing.
On the other hand I bet his sister is good looking with lips like that lol
Honestly that degree or realism on a caricature style has to have huge impact :D
Oh and they all seem to have a life of their own..

I bet you work on all the hollywood horrors :D

Nice to hear new things about messiah.
I'll be on the waiting list for that, or maybe it's just me that has to wait.
I really want that dongle on the mail someday..

Would love to know if the hair/fur/grass thing is ever coming?
How about static particles?
Maybe you're not getting into that sometime??

Taron333
03-19-2006, 07:41 AM
www.projectmessiah.com (http://www.projectmessiah.com)
or directly to
DOWNLOADS (http://www.projectmessiah.com/x4/downloads_main.htm)
The new release is out!!! :D

Looks like the demo ain't updated, yet, but the new version is now available for everyone, who already owns messiah:Studio as well as a new version of messiah:Animate of course! I will now resume with the tutorials and get you some stuff to start playing with! :wip:

Julez4001
03-19-2006, 10:57 AM
No What's New! page?!!

Wireframes
03-19-2006, 11:10 AM
Thanks Taron :bounce:

I go to play with --> now :)

Phil

vjholofx
03-19-2006, 11:41 AM
hey taron,
could u please include ur excact zbrush displacement map settings in ur tutorials. i had asked the question of d.maps in this thread http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=321451.

wegg and the other members of the forum where great at helping me resolve this issue in messiah. however the mesh and the texture seemed to be streching at the top of the boot. there are some pictures in the thread. i wndered if this was because the map was to small but the same thing happens with a larger map 2048 by 2048 4096 by 4096 same result.

u obviously know the magic combination out of zbrush as far as make displacement map dialougue goes. that would be really helpful.

thanks.

great stuff.will be installing the upgrade right now:thumbsup:

Taron333
03-19-2006, 11:44 AM
What's new...oh dear...I think we'll have to make an official info, HAHAHA...no really, that's still to come for sure, but I'll give you a brief list:

Interface and Interaction:

- new EditSphere (improved handling and display)

- new Timeline slider (improved visibility and handling) (hmm...but it's true!)

- a bunch of clean-ups and optimisations all over around. (yup, it's an unofficial list, I can say such things!) ...amongst them are some menu refresh improvements and more...

Feature adjustments and additions:

- Particle System has a whole set of new functions and the brand new introduction of custom forces, allowing third parties (and ourselves) to wildly add new forces. I've started it off with a vortex force that comes with a really nice set of comfortable features...
I would explode this post if I would go into all the details of this, but there are many changes and additions in the whole emitting system...time's now based on frames for more accurate control in connection with keyframes.

A new system of animating emitting amount and frequency allows for a super intuitive handling.

Rotational control for particles is now up and running. An Axis view mode allows for pleasant feedback. Randomize functions are added. Emitting orientations are there now, too. Several improvements of this entire section are up now.

- ParticleShader ....will need a lengthy tutorial thanx to a crazy amount of possibilities with it.

BUT my favorites are here:

- Standart material has changed dramatically:
New interface with the addition of tinting parameters for specularity, reflections and transparency.
Tinting for Translucency with color sliders and a new mode called "uniLimit", which I will explain in the tutorials.
Specular Highlights as well as the diffuse shading itself will respond to the SIZE of the lightsource. Even a distance light has a size now. This is to achieve more natural sunlight shading for instance. It also effects every surface in a scene and therefore promotes more coherence by default!
Glossiness level describes now the coarseness of the surface and therefore diffuses the highlight. A more natural feel gets created, when texturing the glossiness. This supports the idea of actually leaving the specular levels full on and instead texturing the glossiness levels. Beautiful way of designing surfaces.
Shadow calculation and translucency calculations are vastly improved! I'm particularely happy about that one, toO!
HDRI implementation and antialiasing for overexposed areas is massively improved! (looks real nice and smooth now!)
HDR filter interface is beautified and more understandable now!

Awwmmm....tons of stuff...oh, I made a bunch of other fixes to some of the shadernodes...and additons, actually. I believe I had added a new mode to the textureDeform shader for some world coordinates locking of attached textures (Thanx Weggy).

I mean, this is a totally unofficial list, because I'm really not the kind of professional informer anyone would want to have on the frontline, haha, but it gives you at least somewhat of an idea what's new. I most likely have left out plenty of things and even those things that I've mentioned have so many new details. It would be a few hours worth of work to put all of that together. I believe the tutorials will cover it best at first, however weired that may seem.

Anyway...I'll be off doing that now...or sleeping first...hmmm....sleeping I think.

dobermunk
03-19-2006, 01:05 PM
No What's New! page?!!
There's a bit of text in the update download...

David

Taron333
03-19-2006, 11:03 PM
Looks like I hardly left anything out except for our new file-formats for loading and saving, including the infamous .MDD format.
The new additional compositing layer saving options: Normals, Shadows, Surface Color, Object IDs, Specular and Diffuse Radiance buffers besides the already existing color and depth outputs.
There's a new volume/haze shader we lovingly called: SpeedHazer (how do you like the name?) It's actually not just a "fog" shader, but in essence a volume shader that even allows solid volume renders. Make procedural grounds that dissolve over time if you like...animate it's "geometry" using textures or any shaders for that matter. It's a crazy beast that really asks for it's very own tutorial. It's very fast and insanely flexible. In it's most basic feature it's a highly convenient fog and ground fog tool.

Materials:
- Easy copy, paste, undo and replace between materials.

That's been a request and an entry in our own wishlist for a long time, but finally it made it into the mix! So there it is...! :D

Interface:
- Color picker can switch between floating point color (0.0->1.0) or 8 bit (0->255) and now is the default for setting color in the material's interface.
- Added a frame slider button with current frame indicator, for easier grabbing to scrub.
- HDRI in texture map now has a popup choice between "Reflection map" and "Image light", and automatically
- defaults to "Image Light", if the light probe map type is chosen.
- Menus are now double buffered to eliminate flicker when drawing on some graphics cards.

Particles can also now be controlled with expressions! Oddly enough I havn't even tried that, yet, but writing plugin forces is just so much more fun...I'm going to write a whole bunch of new forces very soon! The Vortex is a great starter, though....I mentioned that in another post below already, I think.

Oh yes, and a bunch of fixes...don't know if you ever ran into those, but they're fixed now:
Fixes:
- When creating a number of objects in file->add_items they now will be numbered correctly when creating multiple items at once.
- Processing flag now saves/loads properly for tracks in compose
- The tooltip windows in the script palette now draw properly.

- Fixed a problem when loading non-LWO objects as clusters. This should also fix any other issues people were having with non LWO objects.
That one used to be a big one, because it caused all sorts of funny little instabilities, which are now GONE! At the very least in this very regard! So that's a pretty darn great thing, even while the fix was rather super simple. But then it's often really just FINDING the problem, that shows to be the most effort.

The read-me of the update shows a few more entries, but this should cover it for the most part. I'm pretty sure we all forgot to mention tiny little fixes and changes that, again, just helped cleaning up the whole package a bit more. But hopefully you won't even have to notice! :)

Julez4001
03-20-2006, 04:47 AM
It's a crazy beast that really asks for it's very own tutorial. It's very fast and insanely flexible. In it's most basic feature it's a highly convenient fog and ground fog tool.

:)

Whenever you can get to it man:)

crossbones
03-20-2006, 11:25 AM
taron, nice update. I like what's been done as its a step in the right direction, but I also know its not yet the major update people have been hoping for. I hope you find the time to show us how to use these new toys with your tutorials. Ideally it would be awesome to have zscript like mode where messiah plays itself back.

Can you show me the shader flow for the character you made in this thread?


BTW: I like the new edit sphere!!

Taron333
03-20-2006, 02:41 PM
I'm glad you feel that we're going into the right direction. Makes me happy to hear!
We found a little kink at the last second and will add another patch probably tonight or tomorrow. We took the opportunity to also add another request for the viewport...

Thanx! And don't stop hoping for the next major update. It's always a fantastic thing when hopes come true and that's what we're working on! :thumbsup:

Taron333
03-22-2006, 12:07 AM
The little extra patch will have to wait until the weekend. But we've found even more sweet little improvements, which are now in place...amazing what sometimes becomes so clear, when everything else improves. Hmmm... ...it certainly gets sleaker and sleaker. We also finally took care of the camera reticle viewport fitting! Works beautifully.

Little things, but great they are nontheless! :)

So, sorry for the delay...I'm out of town until Friday.

dobermunk
03-22-2006, 06:56 AM
We also finally took care of the camera reticle viewport fitting! Works beautifully.

dude!!
And the shift-No. toggle channel active setting???? Please!?

Nichod
03-22-2006, 09:46 AM
Hope you've looked at the simple issues that have been posted in the unofficial bug tracker here too!

I hope we get those tutorial videos soon...to see how all this new stuff works.

Julez4001
04-12-2006, 04:30 PM
FIRST POST - MARCH 10 - Today April 12

Okay we did have a 2.4 and a 2.4b release but every now is on the same page.

Stop making goodies and start making tutorials.

Same energy you use at Siggraph. When taron talks the CG community listens, you would think he'd talk a:beer: ll day.


so just confirm that you have stop programming and losing sleep and u are activately
making tutorials.

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