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takkun
12-16-2002, 10:23 PM
Have you guys seen this render? When I saw it I thought it was the most realistic cg skin I've ever seen. I've really got to stop buying presents and save some money for G2!

takkun
12-16-2002, 10:42 PM
...

KOlson
12-16-2002, 11:15 PM
Very impressive :D

Infinity3d4life
12-17-2002, 12:07 AM
Damn i'm buying it... Where did you get these images from.. i would like to know more about g2.. is there a gallery somewhere?

KOlson
12-17-2002, 12:08 AM
Looks like Worley added a Gallery page to the G2 section of the site. :)

http://www.worley.com/G2/g2_gallery.html#startit

Psyhke
12-17-2002, 12:16 AM
Screw the skin. I'd say that hair looks like the best I've seen. What's up with that? Almost like it's a photo comp or something. Hmmm... :eek: :eek: :eek:

policarpo
12-17-2002, 12:41 AM
i would suggest learning to render in layers and learning how to tweak these layers before you went out and spent $500 on something...when you have control over the layers which go into making a render look the way it does, you can do a whole lot of stuff that would take hours of tweaking inside of LightWave to achieve.

don't get me wrong...G2 friggin' rocks and i am going to get it some time soon, but the fact that i can tweak my render layers really inspires me to do things in real time in photoshop or after effects without worrying about hitting that render button again. i can create things via the rendered layers that i can't achieve with lightwave alone or without a lot of surfacing work...layers are your friend and i like my time.

:)

----------------------------------

have a look here at some of my samples....the last post is by far the most extreme in the samples...and this one only uses 1 area light to illuminate the scene, whereas the first 2 use a 4 sided area light box to illuminate the scene (what you see on the left is what LightWave kicks out, and what you see on the right is what can be achieved by tweaking the individual layers that are exported with the .PSD export or Buffer Saver Pixel Filter):

hope someone finds this useful. :drool:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32699

Cman
12-17-2002, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by Psyhke
Screw the skin. I'd say that hair looks like the best I've seen. What's up with that? Almost like it's a photo comp or something. Hmmm... :eek: :eek: :eek:

yeah! What's up with that hair!! That's good stuff.

Infinity3d4life
12-17-2002, 01:58 AM
i'm looking into your topic policarpo.. looks really interesting...That hair is incredible..

Kaiser_Sose
12-17-2002, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by policarpo
i would suggest learning to render in layers and learning how to tweak these layers before you went out and spent $500 on something...when you have control over the layers which go into making a render look the way it does, you can do a whole lot of stuff that would take hours of tweaking inside of LightWave to achieve.

don't get me wrong...G2 friggin' rocks and i am going to get it some time soon, but the fact that i can tweak my render layers really inspires me to do things in real time in photoshop or after effects without worrying about hitting that render button again. i can create things via the rendered layers that i can't achieve with lightwave alone or without a lot of surfacing work...layers are your friend and i like my time.

:)

----------------------------------

have a look here at some of my samples....the last post is by far the most extreme in the samples...and this one only uses 1 area light to illuminate the scene, whereas the first 2 use a 4 sided area light box to illuminate the scene (what you see on the left is what LightWave kicks out, and what you see on the right is what can be achieved by tweaking the individual layers that are exported with the .PSD export or Buffer Saver Pixel Filter):

hope someone finds this useful. :drool:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32699

Are you referring to rendering one light at a time

policarpo
12-17-2002, 05:32 AM
that and using your Render Buffer View elements or your .PSD export...they kick out the same elements.

this sample below doesn't use anything but the default distant light in layout...and raytracing is off...it just shows what you can do if you have control of all of your render elements.

i settled on the image on the right in about 10 minutes...just a few tweaks and shifts here and there to achieve the simulated SSS effect. the render itself took about 30 seconds with the .PSD Exporter activated.

:)

http://www.policarpo.net/cgi-bin/images/graphics/blog/021212-big.jpg

Psyhke
12-17-2002, 05:53 AM
Hell, you don't even need layers to find many possibilities in PS, like this photo-esque tweaking I just cranked out. (Not saying layers aren't very cool, policarpo):

policarpo
12-17-2002, 06:03 AM
you're missing the point of this.

when you have these separate layers of Specularity, Diffuse, Shadow, Luminosity, Transparency, etc...you get a lot more freedom than you do from a single RAW RGB file.

I'm very comfortable with PSD and can achieve almost any look i want..but the added layers of the passes i mentioned above gives me infinitely more freedom.

think of it this way...which would you rather have if you were a DJ?

a single track ripped from a CD that you need to remix, or all 32 tracks that went into the make up of the song as their own individual tracks.

which would you rather tweak?

that is the power of rendering and using the Buffer View/.PSD Export feature in LW7.5...plus you might surprise yourself once you have access to all of these layers.

anyhoo...i'll stop chatting it up and keep it to myself from here on out...everyone seems down on the concept anyhoo...oh well...more fun for me. :D

here's a link to a great primer on the subject that i linked in my other thread in case anyone is interested:
http://www.3drender.com/light/compositing/index.html

Psyhke
12-17-2002, 06:19 AM
No..no..no..no. Quite the opposite, policarpo. I'm totally with you on the PSD layers thing. My post was actually meant to throw in my support of what can be done after a render is made. (I can see why it didn't seem that way after reading it again, though).

I was just trying to show that even WITHOUT layered output from LW how much can be done in PS (which we all know, really, I guess), and just to imagine how much more can be done WITH the luxury of having separated render layers out of LW, like you suggest.

:wavey: :beer:

policarpo
12-17-2002, 06:25 AM
cool....i guess i read too literally sometimes.

:beer:

yeah...this is a very powerful way of managing your workflow too...you can change almost any image based variable well after the fact and not have to deal with a render hit.

i guess what Worley achieved with G2 is really nothing more than having the ability to access these different render layers/passes from within Lightwave itself, and a little bit more...it looks damn robust from what i've seen in the videos...but i think i can achieve most of what he's doing via manipulating my render passes in photoshop...without suffering another render hit since i'm a Spinning Lights junky... :drool:

Mike RB
12-17-2002, 06:29 AM
Hey. How do you rearrange the psd export in photoshop to recreate the original render? Exactly what layers go where and on what settings... I think that would be a good starting point as then at least you start with what LW would have given you.

Mike

policarpo
12-17-2002, 06:35 AM
this is how i do it:

RAW Color = Normal
Diffuse Shade=Screen
Specular Shade=Screen
Rfelected Color, Transparency, and Luminosity=Screen

you can the tweak the opacity of these individual layers.

also feel free to copy individual layers and paste them into their own channels in the Channels tab (just don't forget to name them or else you might forget). Pasting them in the Channels tab allows you to load them as a selection should you want to add extra tweaks in isolated areas of your render.

also...don't be afraid to duplicate layers and change their modes from what i listed above...the final image is entirely up to your tastes.

:)

enjoy.

Mike RB
12-17-2002, 06:37 AM
Is that the order you use too? And does that give you the same as the LW render?

One other thing, can you post how you might use the depth layer as a blur mask? For DOF?

I've actually never had to get into rendering much and am keen to learn more.

policarpo
12-17-2002, 07:02 AM
that is the order i use..just invert it....RAW is layer 1, Diffuse is layer 2....etc...does that make sense?

here's a snapshot:

http://www.policarpo.net/cgi-bin/images/graphics/blog/021213-big.jpg

i don't have time at the moment to devote to an entire tutorial on how to set this up...but we'll see how things work out.

be sure to check out that link to 3drender.com which covers the basics of what i'm talking about...heck..pick up that book by Jeremy Birn too...it's invaluable.

oh and heck....on the Depth Map...just copy and paste that into a new channel and load the selection and use a Gaussian Blur on it...and see what happens...pretty cool HUH! you may need to invert and feather your selection to make it look all pretty. :)

Facial Deluxe
12-17-2002, 07:04 AM
One other thing, can you post how you might use the depth layer as a blur mask? For DOF?
I don't know how to do this in Photoshop, but you can in After Effect.
Render the deph buffer (Deph image) and your pic (Picture).
In AE use Effect / compound blur on Picture, select Deph Image as pointer and you're done.

It's using the 256 grey levels to blur a pic (White=maxi Black=mini)

dies-irae
12-17-2002, 08:16 AM
the simplest way to do the DOF in pshop trick is this:
1 - Create a new layer set and put in it a copy of all the passes and blur them as much as you want the most blurred parts...

2 - Select the Layer Set (not the layer themselves, just the set...)
and Layer\Add Layer Mask (alt+l+k) set it on reveal all, doesnt matter...

3 - COPY the depth pass on the clipboard.

4 - select the Layer Mask (alt + click on the left square on the layer panel) the image will go white. Paste the depth pass.

Now the Layer Mask acts as a transparency map for your layer set... the deepest parts will be the blurrest (does THAT exist in english???) ones...

to tweak the "focus" point, just copy and invert the depth and blend it with the normal depth so that it goes from black in the foremost point to white in the desired focus point to black again towards the background...

Downside: some edges will be semi-blurred even if in foreground...

hope this helps...

Julez4001
12-17-2002, 09:13 AM
I usually set my diffusion to multiply than screen.
I put the RGB last on the bottom.



They are a few layers you don't have access to such volumetrics or lensflares (get unmult or flare2alpha) for help though. Other things taht require a special pass (glows) are omitted too. I think this can be easily added as they are all post effects. Buffer View is better as you get a few more options thats not in included in PSD format.

I do wish you can edit in Pshop and transfer to AE (in sequences)


hey look Max ppl get to pay for theirs....
http://www.insidecg.com/news.php?id=245

Facial Deluxe
12-17-2002, 09:23 AM
I do wish you can edit in Pshop and transfer to AE (in sequences)
Yeah baby ! Yeah (A. Power)

anieves
12-17-2002, 01:17 PM
Maybe I can work on a Photoshop Action this weekend and "automate" that process... Maybe that will work if the action itself can then be edited with your own personal settings and then batch... Will look into that... if there is enough interest...

-angel

policarpo
12-17-2002, 02:25 PM
DOH! i meant diffusion to multiply...sorry about that. :) it was late and i did have any coffee. :P

Once you start using this technique you create your own special recipes to pull off the type of image you want to achieve.

i say, march forward and embrace this concept of rendering and have fun...it's as deep and as powerful as you are willing to explore.

and anieves, i'm not sure if the action thing will work...and it might be a lot of work for you...cause it's pretty easy to currently set up a specific folder for each pass and render to those folders the sequences and import those sequential passes to AE or combustion pretty easily...

not that i don't suggest doing it...it's just it might be a lot of work when it's already doable ya know. :D

anieves
12-17-2002, 02:40 PM
he, he after I posted the reply I thought the same thing.:D

Mike RB
12-17-2002, 03:20 PM
I'd love an action that would reorder, unlock and set the mode/opacity on each layer to actually give me my original image

policarpo
12-17-2002, 03:22 PM
that would be a nice addition and hopefully this will be resolved in the next update to LightWave...but it is just annoying at this point...but hey...when the results are good sometimes you spend the extra few minutes to set it up.

"darn lack of automation to make my life an effort to achieve good results!"

sorry...got a little Homer Simpson there.

:applause:

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