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View Full Version : Lightwave Render on DVD Looks awful


sidewayshank
03-09-2006, 03:05 AM
I rendered a short film using Lightwave D1 Pal widescreen

25 fps 720x576 1.4222 aspect ratio

Outputted to .avi dvix6 codec

It all looks great on the PC

But I have tried burning it to DVD using

Cucusoft AVI to VCD DVD converter and also

All Video Converter

And it looks totally awful blocky pixilated and jumpy

I’ve never done any work on DVD before

HELP please

RobertoOrtiz
03-09-2006, 06:11 AM
Could you post a still image with a sample?

-R

Mylenium
03-09-2006, 06:26 AM
I rendered a short film using Lightwave D1 Pal widescreen

25 fps 720x576 1.4222 aspect ratio

Outputted to .avi dvix6 codec

It all looks great on the PC

But I have tried burning it to DVD using

Cucusoft AVI to VCD DVD converter and also

All Video Converter

And it looks totally awful blocky pixilated and jumpy

Ive never done any work on DVD before

HELP please

Whoa. This is one hell of a crooked workflow. I didn't even know the apps you're using and they don't look like professional MPEG converters. This might be a big part of the problem since it's very likely they are simply using poor compression routines. Another major problem you created yourself is using any compression on the original footage in the first place. When doing a DVD, you need to work uncompressed as long as possible and only apply the MPEG II transcoding in the last step. So get rid of that ugly DivX and render to image sequences or something similar.

Mylenium

coremi
03-09-2006, 07:19 AM
i think first of all, u never render in divx format wich is a poor quality compare to DVD format, and try to convert divx in DVD, just render uncompressed and from uncompressed use nero visionor whatever and write direct the dvd, will look as good as you rendered.

PixelInfected
03-09-2006, 12:11 PM
when you work with video and audio, never, and i say never use compressed source.
if you compress video in divx you reduce the quality, you grow the time to convert in mpg2 for dvd and general quality is worst thing.
better thing is to render in avi not compressed or quicktime not compressed. then you can build mpg2 files for dvd.

remember that when you use compressed material to produce another compressed format, you need more times be cause internal workflow is compressed original-> decompress-> elaborate-> compress to mpg2 for dvd.

good luck.

Zarathustra
03-09-2006, 02:44 PM
First off, skewed workflow. Render uncompressed targa sequence for starters.

For me, on a Mac, I'd then
Import into AE
Correct Levels and apply slight blur
Export as uncompressed QT
Drop into Compressor and convert to m2v
Import into DVDSP

I don't know what the PC equivalents are, but you get the picture.

I had a serious problem with flickering on this recent project. I just couldn't figure it out. As a last ditch effort I tried the levels/blur thing I read online. I didn't think it would look right because look at my image on the right. That looks like crap compared to the original. Know what? On the dvd, the image on the right LOOKS like the image on the left. Crazy, huh?

http://magicanimation.com/DVDCorrection.jpg

Mylenium
03-09-2006, 05:38 PM
That looks like crap compared to the original. Know what? On the dvd, the image on the right LOOKS like the image on the left. Crazy, huh?


Perceptional psychology - the human eye is more perceptive to changes in brightness and a simple blur will minimize those across the board. In addition it will also minimize the temporal differentiation between fields by making them more "samey". I wonder why you're so surprised at the Levels effect doing its thing. Mograph/ broadcast designers have been doing this for ages and it should be a part of your pipeline to check for safe colors and adjust footage if needed. BTW, a slight blur will also benefit any MPEG based compression.

Mylenium

Zarathustra
03-09-2006, 05:55 PM
First, I think more casual, jovial speech is best for conveying ideas rather then speaking down to someone.
Second, I thought I'd mention something that might help. Call me crazy. :hmm:

Mylenium
03-09-2006, 07:01 PM
First, I think more casual, jovial speech is best for conveying ideas rather then speaking down to someone.
Second, I thought I'd mention something that might help. Call me crazy. :hmm:

I prefer clear technical terms, that has nothing to do with "speaking down to someone". It makes things easier in case someone wants to expand his knowledge by doing a search on his own.

Mylenium

nonplanar
03-09-2006, 07:02 PM
Well, which is it? Perceptional Psychology, or and actual benefit from 'temporal differentiation between fields' / any MPEG based encoding drawing benefits from a slight blur... the latter seems to have little to do with 'perception'.

This guy is pointing out something that could potentially help a lot of people solving these kinds of issues. And you're acting like this should be as obvious as breathing. Which is really a pompous way of knocking someone who's just trying to share his knowledge.


n o n p l a n a r

I have the normal complement of anxieties, neuroses, psychoses and whatever else - but I'm absolutely nothing special. - Clive Barker.




Perceptional psychology - the human eye is more perceptive to changes in brightness and a simple blur will minimize those across the board. In addition it will also minimize the temporal differentiation between fields by making them more "samey". I wonder why you're so surprised at the Levels effect doing its thing. Mograph/ broadcast designers have been doing this for ages and it should be a part of your pipeline to check for safe colors and adjust footage if needed. BTW, a slight blur will also benefit any MPEG based compression.

Mylenium

Tee Double U
03-09-2006, 07:26 PM
LW to DVD: what worked for me
1)Widescreen rendering to un-compressed .TGA files
2)brought into After FX for what ever FX I wanted.
3)rendered out of After FX as mpeg2 ( pay close attention to your settings )
4) that mpeg 2 brought into Adobe Encore,, since it is mpeg 2 for dvd already it doesnt need to be transcoded.

and it worked great

Zarathustra
03-09-2006, 07:36 PM
AFAIK there isn't an mpeg2 output option for the OSX version of AE. Anyone?

Mylenium
03-09-2006, 07:46 PM
Well, which is it? Perceptional Psychology, or and actual benefit from 'temporal differentiation between fields' / any MPEG based encoding drawing benefits from a slight blur... the latter seems to have little to do with 'perception'.

This guy is pointing out something that could potentially help a lot of people solving these kinds of issues. And you're acting like this should be as obvious as breathing. Which is really a pompous way of knocking someone who's just trying to share his knowledge.

n o n p l a n a r

Eh, mixing up things to have a reason to mock me? What kinda personality quirk on your part is that? The part about MPEG compression was phrased as a side comment and as such clearly discernible to not being related to the other info. Perhaps you should check your left brain half, perhaps something is wrong with your perception of forum postings or more down to the matter - the English language. At the very least truncating and incorrectly quoting other user's posts is just as impolite and pompous a thing to do as the one you are accusing me of. That aside, Zharatustra knows me a bit better than you and I'm sure if' he felt insulted or treated badly by me he'd know better what to do than making pointless complaints.

Mylenium

Mylenium
03-09-2006, 07:48 PM
AFAIK there isn't an mpeg2 output option for the OSX version of AE. Anyone?

Yepp, you have to use iDVD or DVDStudio Pro or whatever other tool you prefer.

Mylenium

PixelInfected
03-09-2006, 07:53 PM
to be short my workflow is this :

acquire my shooting
split scenes with virtual dub
out of lw with jpg sequence
afx and/or combustion for post pro and compositing -> qt or avi uncompressed
editing in premiere -> mpg for dvd by mainconcept mpg encoder
less compression session more quality in out dvd.

Zarathustra
03-09-2006, 08:05 PM
Mylenium: It's "Zarathustra". If you have trouble, there's this thing that desktop professionals have known about for years, called "Copy and Paste". It should be part of your pipeline to check for accuracy and adjust if needed :D
Ok, there. You were pompous now I got to be pompous and we've all had our shots.
Thanks for the mpeg2 confirmation. I would assume that Adobe would make it easy to export from AE to Encore.

nonplanar
03-09-2006, 08:20 PM
I didn't misquote you, as your entire text as-is was quoted in my reply. And in my question I merely paraphrased a part of your text. You can look that up in a dictionary.

And I wasn't mocking you, I was asking you a question.

And unlike you I didn't call you names, nor did I question your abilities, or downtalk you in any way shape or form. What I did do was comment your actions, which, unlike your comments on my brain, my English and perception of forum postings, is not impolite.


Eh, mixing up things to have a reason to mock me? What kinda personality quirk on your part is that? The part about MPEG compression was phrased as a side comment and as such clearly discernible to not being related to the other info. Perhaps you should check your left brain half, perhaps something is wrong with your perception of forum postings or more down to the matter - the English language. At the very least truncating and incorrectly quoting other user's posts is just as impolite and pompous a thing to do as the one you are accusing me of. That aside, Zharatustra knows me a bit better than you and I'm sure if' he felt insulted or treated badly by me he'd know better what to do than making pointless complaints.

Mylenium

ivanze
03-09-2006, 09:16 PM
Am I wrong or jpg files might damage field information in frames because compression?

EvilGnome
03-10-2006, 12:09 AM
As a last ditch effort I tried the levels/blur thing I read online.

Hey Zarathustra, may we have a link to this info please?

Zarathustra
03-10-2006, 01:23 AM
EvilGnome: Sorry, I can't find the bookmark, Try maybe the DVDSP section of Apple's forum. That's probably where I was searching. There's a lot of general info there aside from being just DVDSP specific.
The above was a fun project. Learned some stuff. Lot of limitations as far as interactivity, so I tried to make up for that by having a lot of animated segments flying over the film canisters, having a reel bounce and roll on the floor, etc. I stopped doing web design years ago because it was too limiting, but dvd menus are even worse imo.

Mylenium
03-10-2006, 06:52 AM
Hey Zarathustra, may we have a link to this info please?

Try creativeCOW. Aharon Rabinowitz did a nice video recently explaining the hows and whys of broadcast safe colors.

Mylenium

artista3d
03-10-2006, 11:40 AM
Am I wrong or jpg files might damage field information in frames because compression?

ivanze:
You are right. Due to compression, field information is messed up in JPEG files due to the lossy compression.

I always render out to a lossless format. I started using TGA, but recently I am using PNG, because the files are smaller (but still lossless).

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