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mdavid
03-08-2006, 10:38 AM
Mark David is entered in the "The Journey Begins Challenge" update: View Challenge Page (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/journey_begins/view_entries.php?challenger=10757)

Latest Update: Final Image: Final image - The Journey Begins
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1147212150_medium.jpg (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=3530262#post3530262)

shakes
03-08-2006, 10:52 AM
Hey Mark, fantastic to see you here mate! this will be lots of fun..can't wait!

mdavid
03-08-2006, 12:32 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1141821129_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1141821129_large.jpg)

Here's the basic idea... Our hero is a rat, straining to drag his sailing boat into the water. His boat is loaded up with cheese to sustain him on the long voyage ahead. On the horizon a storm is building up - things are going to get bumpy out there. The boat has a telescope mounted on the bow and there are going to be maps and other stuff on board too.

M477
03-08-2006, 12:37 PM
This looks really cool - I like the worry on his face! there are not too many humerous threads out there so this should stand out

Keep it up, I'll check back soon. :thumbsup:

ODoul
03-08-2006, 02:39 PM
Looks like a great concept Mark! Like the sketch too.

shakes
03-08-2006, 07:19 PM
Go for it Mark- looks really funny!

mdavid
03-08-2006, 11:00 PM
Thanks for the feedback folks.

Shakes and Soapy, thanks for your encouragement and tips. 3D_Explorer, great to see you in here too. M477, thanks for dropping by (I'm looking forward to seeing your concept too)

I'm going to start on the boat first I think. You just can't do a epic journey on water without a boat.

Cheers,

Mark

mdavid
03-09-2006, 01:24 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1141910657_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1141910657_large.jpg)

I was wondering if the rat should have a really wobbly-looking boat, or a smart-looking one - the hero boat. I decided on the hero boat because he's a hero rat. The rat knows a lot about boats, and that's why I think he'll survive the journey. But I'm worried about the rat too. I don't think he realises how big the ocean waves can get.

Phantom(Rus)
03-09-2006, 01:35 PM
Nice start. It will be interesting to look that further. Go on and good luck.

soapy
03-09-2006, 05:32 PM
Welcome in Mark! I am glad you decided to enter.

Good storyline and sketch, there is lots to sink your teeth into. Nice modeling so far, I think it is great how much ettention to detail you have shown with the tiller and dagger board. That rat is one smart boat designer!

ODoul
03-09-2006, 10:14 PM
Really nice modeling on that boat. I've modeled a couple and found it very difficult to get the shape right. I'm curious how you've done it. It looks very clean. Could I persuade you to show a wire?

shakes
03-09-2006, 10:23 PM
superb boat Mark!
beautiful detailing..you're off to a great start there mate.

mdavid
03-09-2006, 10:48 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1141944516_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1141944516_large.jpg)

Hey Soapy, thanks for dropping by. Yep, those rats keep surprising us with how smart they are. I didn't know just how smart they are myself until I modelled this boat. Hi Ray, here's your wire. I agree that boats are frustrating to get smooth. I always start with a cube, get the basic shape right with as few polys as possible and then every time I chop up some polys and make it more complicated (using the knife tool or edge cut tool) I pull the new offending bits back into line. I hope that makes sense. Thanks to you too, Shakes and Phantom(Rus)

Stefan-Morrell
03-10-2006, 03:42 AM
nice clean wires for the boat,I always found them hard to get looking right too,but you've pulled it off nicely

good stuff!

Clorets
03-10-2006, 03:49 AM
Good modeling, i'm also modeling a sailboat for my entry, a clean model isn't the easiest thing!

flamingbs
03-10-2006, 03:52 AM
Hehe, nice. I like the slightly humorous feel of your concept, it makes me smile just looking at it. If you have a morbid sense of humor, you could have some shark fins in the water in the distance :D. Anyway, have fun!

mdavid
03-10-2006, 12:23 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1141993409_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1141993409_large.jpg)

The boat's mostly modelled now so I'll be working on the rat next.

mdavid
03-10-2006, 12:38 PM
Stefan_Morrell and mkerouch thanks for your nice comments. I really appreciate them a lot.

Flamingbs thanks for the cool idea. I might just put in a shark fin now. It just goes to reinforce the fact that the open ocean is no place for a rat in a toy boat.

MVDB
03-10-2006, 12:38 PM
Modeling looks good! :thumbsup:
can't wait for the paintjob.. ;)

ODoul
03-11-2006, 12:29 AM
Shiver me timbers, that's one fine boat.

soapy
03-11-2006, 02:07 AM
Nice work on the boat it looks great.

mdavid
03-11-2006, 03:36 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1142048158_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1142048158_large.jpg)

Still working on the boat. I figured it needed a name that would inspire awe and respect in a rat. Speaking of the rat, I really will get a start on it now. Thanks for the nice comments about the boat.

shakes
03-11-2006, 06:22 AM
hey, awesome Mark! realistic, yet cartoony. love the name, too.

makaron
03-11-2006, 08:55 AM
this is a good one... what a journey he is setting sails for :bounce: Iīm eager to see the little hero...

mdavid
03-11-2006, 11:35 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1142076953_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1142076953_large.jpg)

Here's the little guy - or at least the beginning of him. He's a bit thin at the moment but he'll appear to put on a few rat pounds when he grows some fur. I want to exaggerate his features a bit more too, to keep some of the cartoony look about him.

soapy
03-11-2006, 03:11 PM
Hey Mark, that is smart to keep him a little thin, for sure the fur will bulk him up. I've made that mistake once already.

Is that tail a sweep nurbs? Don't forget you can change the scaling property so that it tapers off to the point.

The mouse looks good so far and the boat came out great too. Nice progress.

Kender
03-11-2006, 04:26 PM
another rat journey... Will u let them quiet ? :D

shakes
03-11-2006, 07:23 PM
nice rat mark1 I really like his face . keep em coming!

mdavid
03-11-2006, 11:18 PM
MichaelMotion: thanks for that. I've always enjoyed modelling boats

3D_Explorer: Awww. thanks for that

Soapy: Hi there! Actually the rat's tail is a bunch of squashed spheres arranged to run along a spline, using the 'Arrange' feature in Cinema. It's a great way to get a, well, I suppose you could call it a rat's-tail effect. Mind you, I don't know if I'm going to stay with that and your idea of using a sweep nurbs is a good one.

Kender: Yep, poor little rats. First the psychologists make them run through mazes and now I'm setting one out on an ocean journey. Sometimes it's hard not to feel sorry for the little guys.

Shakes: Thanks mate!

soapy
03-12-2006, 05:40 PM
Hey Mark, that is an interesting use of the arrange function. I wonder if there is a way to decease the size of the spheres as they move along? I just started learning a bit about how to use arrange on the cyclops helmet. If you decided to use a sweep you could then use displacement with a gradient to create the ridges.

makaron
03-12-2006, 06:05 PM
and the Hero has come :bowdown: he is cute too, and I guess he will be fat enough with his fur on :)

mdavid
03-12-2006, 09:49 PM
Soapy:
Thanks for the suggestion. That's definitely worth playing with. It's funny - I had it in my head that a rat's tail doesn't get thinner at the end, but it does and you're right. The arrange function starts to lose its appeal because I can't figure out how to make smaller spheres 'arranged' to be stacked together more closely than the big ones. Yep, sweep nurbs and displacement are looking very appealing right now.

Makaron:
Hi Mona, thanks for dropping by again and thanks for your kind words. The rat sure needs a lot of work and fattening up with fur, although it will be a struggle to make him look as handsome as a guinea pig :)

mdavid
03-13-2006, 01:20 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1142212827_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1142212827_large.jpg)

The rat's not finished yet but I'm going to make some stuff to load into the boat now. He might not have fur yet but I want the rat to be well-prepared with bread (whole-grain), cheese, safety equipment and water. I think he'll need a compass too. Lots of fun things to model

shakes
03-13-2006, 07:08 AM
tooo cute mark! just love that lil boat!

authentic
03-13-2006, 01:38 PM
concept, idea and modelisation are ok but you have to work the pose for your character. Doesnt seem really natural. For example the right hand could be on the other way.
Good luck.

SuperXCM
03-13-2006, 05:11 PM
Hello,

Nice concept, and i'm agree with authentic for the hand, and the pose of the rat, anyway the boat look really cool, and clean, and love the name!! :scream:
Good luck dude! :beer:

se7enthcin
03-13-2006, 05:54 PM
Make it another tally on authentic's side. The pose needs some work. But otherwise I love the boat and I myself would love to have a "cheddar warrior." I love that name. mmmm cheddar.

Keep it up! :thumbsup:

soapy
03-13-2006, 07:47 PM
Nice work Mark, the telescope looks great.

makaron
03-13-2006, 07:58 PM
naaa... he is never gonna be as handsome as a guinea-pig ;) he is too thin for that :p and to much tail... but he sure is cute enough to be a mouse... :bounce: looking forward to see all his things he will pack his boat with...

Elentor
03-13-2006, 08:02 PM
Cute pic. I agree with others - the hand is too "flat" and the pose doesn't help. Try making it a little "stronger" and adjusting the pose.

Very cute anyway. The boat is well modeled, congratulations.

mdavid
03-13-2006, 08:23 PM
authentic, SuperXCM, se7enthcin and Elentor
MANY thanks for your tip about the pose. I appreciate your help a lot. I will definitely work on the pose and the hand. Thanks for your other comments too.

Soapy
Hey Soapy, thanks for that. I'll be doing more work on the telescope with texturing next - that shiny brass is a little too clean-looking for your average rat's telescope

Shakes
Thanks mate!

makaron
Many thanks. Yep, rats just can't compete sometimes, but this one will do his best. Cheers.

ODoul
03-14-2006, 06:43 PM
Eeek! My wife would be screaming her head off. She hates mice. It's fun to watch her squirm. :twisted:

mdavid
03-19-2006, 01:22 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1142731351_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1142731351_large.jpg)

I've just made it through a huge week of work that left me no time for this challenge, so it's been a while since I've posted an update. I've now started a bit of modelling on the stuff to load into the boat, but wanted to fix up some things with the rat first. The hands and feet have been remodelled and of course I've put fur on the little guy too

blueferret
03-19-2006, 01:25 AM
really fine work with the hair !

makaron
03-19-2006, 05:47 AM
the fur is great :) I like this fellow... on the body is as it should be, both amount and length :thumbsup:
but on this paws and ears, maybe a bit to much... they usally have almost none fur there.... a white rat like your, just would look more pink on those places... maybe you can make his lovely tail a tiny splash of pink too...

shakes
03-19-2006, 05:51 AM
Wow, superb job on the hair Mark..you'll have to give me some tips..looks brilliant!!

mdavid
03-19-2006, 06:01 AM
blueferret and Shakes
Many thanks

makaron
Thanks to you too! I appreciate your advice about the fur. The truth is I wondering about those feet. The rat's about to get his feet shaved

makaron
03-19-2006, 06:09 AM
be careful with the razor. Mark... :p

and one more fur thing, I you can... make the fur at the end of his bottom, end about 0,5 - 1 cm down his tail... just a few "pieces" of fur there, so it donīt look like you just put the tail there.. end of furadwise from me... Iīm so looking forward to see this image progress...

Russell-Nash
03-19-2006, 03:03 PM
Wow, really nice concept.

And the fur looks fantastic. :thumbsup:

Good luck.

Russel

ODoul
03-19-2006, 03:13 PM
Really nice. Love that fur.

mdavid
03-20-2006, 12:30 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1142857808_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1142857808_large.jpg)

I ended up doing the fur again. This time I took some screen grabs. Makaron, no rats were harmed in the making of this image

mdavid
03-20-2006, 12:52 PM
Makaron
- thanks again for the tips about the hair. I've shaved the little guy's feet now, but can honestly say it hurt me more than it hurt him

Russel-Nash
- many thanks

3D_Explorer
Thanks for that. Cinema's Hair module is a heap of fun. I'm showing great restraint by not putting fur on the boat too.

FlaminGlow
03-20-2006, 01:15 PM
great work specialy the fury character, this boat is also looking as good as it should be compared with its captain. good luck man, i bookmarked you.:buttrock:

makaron
03-20-2006, 01:19 PM
no rats were harmed in the making of this image

hurray... :bounce:

and he looks even better now... really cute little fellow... all the fur in the right places... perfectly done...
better get back to my own furfactory... :scream:

nadscha
03-20-2006, 01:56 PM
Hey, nice work. I especially like the little fellow.
But in my opinion the boat looks too reflective on the inside. And I have never seen a cheese reflecting the surrounding.

MacAndre
03-20-2006, 03:43 PM
fur looking good. ;-) cinemas hair modul is, as you said, real fun. hope i can make it like you on my hamster... the rat skin looks good too. maybe you can add some little bump at the skin... ;-)

M477
03-20-2006, 03:48 PM
Hey the fur looks ace now, the whole thing is coming together rather nicely.

And I'm glad no rats were harmed! :D

loverdose
03-21-2006, 07:36 AM
reminds me of Primus' song: Sailing The Seas Of Cheese :)

Fur at the back of the mouse seems very soft while on his face, it is "rougher". At least that how it seemed to me. I think softer fur matches better overall feeling and style of the scene.

shakes
03-21-2006, 09:40 AM
hey Mark, it looks superb! very realistic. and I like the little black spot ..and those displacement maps work really well.nice new details on the boat too. keep it up mate!

mdavid
03-21-2006, 12:38 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1142944710_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1142944710_large.jpg)

I'll be putting the foreground stuff together for a while now. The plan is to mess things up with more pebbles and sandy gritty stuff and some dead leaves

mdavid
03-21-2006, 01:02 PM
FlaminGlow
Thanks for the kind words

makaron
Your suggestions were brilliant. The little guy no longer suffers the indignity of hairy feet

nadscha
You raised some good points. The boat's now got some (non-skid) matt paint. And as for the reflective cheese, thanks for spotting that too

mac_andre
I've cranked up the bump a bit since reading your suggestion. The skin texture is something I still need to work on

M477
Yep, no rats were harmed

loverdose
I've now softened the fur a bit around its face. Thanks for noticing that

shakes
cheers, Mate

MacAndre
03-21-2006, 03:13 PM
your update looks fine. i like the sand texture. ;-)
maybe you can add some selfshadow of the hair.

shakes
03-21-2006, 09:27 PM
hey Mark- nice update! the sand and rocks look really good. this will be very cute and funny!

makaron
03-21-2006, 10:38 PM
your image gives me "bad" thoughts... :rolleyes: Iīm sitting here and thinking... that my 2 guinea-pigs might wanna take a boatride in the bathtub... you rat seems to looking forward to his trip, so maybe the GPs would enjoy it too...

the sand gonna make the perfect place for sending him off... looks like a realistic view, like it could have happen in real... you got the right proportions on stones and leafs towards the size of the rat I think... :)

oceanbluesky
03-22-2006, 12:18 AM
fun concept, looking forward to seeing this develop...good luck!

shakes
03-24-2006, 01:37 AM
more mousy! more mousy!

ODoul
03-24-2006, 01:39 AM
3D_Explorer
Thanks for that. Cinema's Hair module is a heap of fun. I'm showing great restraint by not putting fur on the boat too.

LOL ... a fur boat, there's something you don't see every day.

mdavid
03-24-2006, 02:49 AM
It's been a while since I updated anything because I'm taking so much time adding clutter to the foreground scene (progress render on its way soon). Adding shells, sticks, and the kind of gritty broken stuff you see on the ground. It shouldn't look like 'designer ground'. It should look more like real ground.

mac_andre
Thanks for your latest suggestion. I was stumbling around in the Hair module wondering about that brighter-than-real hair and you nailed it with the self-shadowing idea. The next render will look better

shakes
I appreciate your support a lot. The little guy is on his way in a new render coming soon

oceanbluesky
Many thanks. I appreciate your comments

makaron
Sorry if my little rat is giving you bad thoughts. I'm sure your GPs are in safe hands

3D_Explorer
We don't see fur boats every day ... Actually, first thing I did when I got the Hair module was to grow fur all over a maxi yacht I'd been modelling. A bit of fun.

shakes
03-24-2006, 02:59 AM
... Actually, first thing I did when I got the Hair module was to grow fur all over a maxi yacht I'd been modelling. A bit of fun.

you're hilarious!

mdavid
03-25-2006, 05:54 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143266051_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143266051_large.jpg)

The little guy needs some fresh water for the journey. I don't know how he forgot that before now. So I figured a rat would need a rat-friendly water bottle - not too big or else it will sink the boat.

mdavid
03-25-2006, 05:57 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143266274_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143266274_large.jpg)

Here's a close-up of one of the shells that will be scattered around the sand. They're kind of minor details for this scene so I didn't bother doing them too carefully. They're simple Sweep NURBS objects running along a spiral.

mdavid
03-25-2006, 06:00 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143266409_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143266409_large.jpg)

Here's the setup for the hair, using Cinema's Hair module. The density map lets me adjust how abruptly the hair fades out at the edges and even lets me paint out areas of hair growth altogether

mdavid
03-25-2006, 06:02 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143266574_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143266574_large.jpg)

A bit of stuff in the foreground. I'll be adding more grit and fine detail during the Photoshop post work, but I needed to get the bulk of the stuff put in as a base. Those stick-like things are Casuarina needles - the leaves of a kind of tree you get in Australia (and growing as a bit of a pest in other parts of the world)

Every time I look at the rat I find myself tweaking the Hair. It's a good thing this challenge comes with a deadline...

shakes
03-25-2006, 07:20 AM
wow, lots of great little details there Mark! I love the water bottle, and particularly because you added a little air bubble! brilliant. Intersting seeing all the hair stuff too, and the last scene is looking brilliant- very realistic render there! keep it up mate!

se7enthcin
03-25-2006, 07:28 AM
Hey Mark. Nice momentum. I think You are truly moving in a nice direction here. Keep it up
:thumbsup:

megabytes2004
03-25-2006, 07:46 AM
Its looking good now. my only comment is the leaves are a bit stiff. well thats my personal comment only, i might be wrong. nice composition u got there. keep it up. good luck to all.



cheers!!!
megabytes2004

Stefan-Morrell
03-25-2006, 07:56 AM
Very nice work on the fur..more renders of that please :)

the pose of the mouse looks a bit odd to me though,not sure why,maybe it's just being in a non-standard mouse pose.
good work on the little details too

are they gum tree leaves?

mdavid
03-25-2006, 08:38 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143275901_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143275901_large.jpg)

Here's an update on how the fur's looking

mdavid
03-25-2006, 08:44 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143276293_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143276293_large.jpg)

Here's a rough concept render to show the main elements and basic camera angle for the background

makaron
03-25-2006, 08:59 AM
great background... :) gonna fit the little rat perfect...

and if I send you a map, he can sail over here... I promise you that the GPs will share their food... :p

mdavid
03-25-2006, 09:10 AM
Shakes
Cheers, mate. It's great to have a bit of time to spend on this again

se7enthcin
Thanks for your encouragement. I've got a lot to learn and your comments are appreciated

megabytes2004
I think you're right about the leaves. Nice observation! I'll add some crinkles

Stefan-Morrell
Thanks for your kind words. I'm sure you're right about the pose. I've cheated quite a bit with the rat to turn him into a sailor. For starters I've made his arms too long in order to get the stance I want. I think a real rat would have to be hunched right over the boat to reach it and I didn't want that look. Although now you've got me thinking... Oh, and yes, they are gum leaves! This little rat is an Aussie

makaron
Thanks Mona! Funny that you mention a map - that's another thing I think the little fella needs if he's going to complete his journey.

soapy
03-25-2006, 06:55 PM
Wow Mark, you are really rockin! I didn't realize I was gone that long, you have made lots of great progress. cheers.

shakes
03-25-2006, 07:01 PM
i like the environment so far Mark.look forward to more!

Gunilla
03-25-2006, 07:01 PM
Can't belive I haven't seen this until now! Crazy good stuff going on here :)

cgrein
03-26-2006, 01:44 AM
great concept and composition Mark.

mdavid
03-26-2006, 01:25 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143379505_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143379505_large.jpg)

Here's the rat's boat from a couple of angles, and some of the things on board

mdavid
03-26-2006, 01:27 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143379672_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143379672_large.jpg)

Here's a bit more detail from the boat, showing where the rat will store his map. I've taken all the cords out and replaced them with string. I think that's much more appropriate for a tiny boat

mdavid
03-26-2006, 01:41 PM
Soapy
Hey Soapy, great to see you dropping by. I hope you're not getting too worn out with so much work on. Look after yourself mate.

Shakes
Thanks for that! I think I'll be kept busy doing the background now

Gunilla and cgrein
Thanks! I appreciate your encouraging words very much

Clorets
03-26-2006, 03:07 PM
Great work, can't wait to see the composition with the background!

Russell-Nash
03-26-2006, 04:42 PM
Wow very nice.
I love the map and the drinking bottle. :thumbsup:

Russel

makaron
03-26-2006, 09:45 PM
that map makes the point that it is a long journey :) I think... good add to the water and cheese...

shakes
03-27-2006, 08:12 AM
love the details Mark..fantastic! you're going to town! yep, Mona's right..and she knows about pet journeys! lovely crisp renders too. my only slight crit is the cheese material doesn't quite match the realism of the others, (maybe if you softened the hard edges of the cheese model a bit, might help.) but that's just nitpicking.
love it!

mdavid
03-27-2006, 11:44 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143459894_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143459894_large.jpg)

Thanks Shakes, for the suggestion about the cheese. I've made the edges a bit softer and wobbly and I think it's better for it. I realised it also needed some good ol' sub-surface scattering to get that cheesy look so I went for that effect too.

Russel-Nash and Mkerouch
Thanks! I appreciate it a lot

Makaron
Yep, the little guy is going to need a map. Can't just head offshore without knowing the way. Rats are too smart for that. Now I'm thinking he needs a compass too.

ODoul
03-27-2006, 12:15 PM
Looking very nice, who cut the cheese?

Gunilla
03-27-2006, 02:13 PM
Mmmm, yummy - Edamer cheese? Very realistic and very stylish at the same time :thumbsup:

yeray
03-27-2006, 02:19 PM
great Shaders and nice modelling :) good luck men

MacAndre
03-27-2006, 02:37 PM
your updates are looking nice. :bounce:
and the fur looks mutch better now. keep it up...

ChewyPixels
03-27-2006, 03:18 PM
Mmm...cheese! :drool:

Looking really good. :thumbsup:

Katt
03-27-2006, 03:37 PM
Nice cheese! My only critique would be that inside the holes of the cheese it seems a bit too hard and shiny, unlike the edges. Keep up the great work! :)

shakes
03-27-2006, 06:56 PM
hey Mark..the cheese looks perfect! ..yum

mdavid
03-28-2006, 04:31 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143520262_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143520262_large.jpg)

The little guy has a compass now. Rats might have rat cunning, but this one needs help to find north. The leaves have been crinkled a bit, and I'm now working to what I think will be the final image proportions

mdavid
03-28-2006, 04:47 AM
3D_Explorer
The rat cut the cheese, but he got help

Gunilla
Thanks! You know your cheeses. Yep, it's based on Edam

yeray, mac_andre, Jedi_Juice and Shakes
Much appreciated!

Katt
That's a seriously cute avatar you have there. Thanks for the comments

ppook
03-28-2006, 05:09 AM
I think that if your mouse wears a parachute it going well with your story :)

mdavid
03-28-2006, 11:29 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143545342_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143545342_large.jpg)

I want to use semi-submerged branches as a bridge between the small scale of the close stuff and the large scale of the distant stuff. Of course I don't want the foreground to look glued onto the background - I'll be adding elements that are part of both

makaron
03-28-2006, 11:36 AM
I think you have a very good scene for DOF-effect later on :)

shakes
03-28-2006, 07:54 PM
really love the layout- great sence of journey to it.I like how he's got trees both sides, like an entrance. I'd maybe crop it a little bit on the sides and give it a little more sky.

P.S..That compass is just beautiful!!

soapy
03-29-2006, 12:05 AM
Nice updates Mark! The cheese and the compass look super.

I really do have to figure out SSS one of these days, You have it working great for the cheese. What is the secret?

mdavid
03-29-2006, 01:33 AM
Makaron
Hi Mona. Yep, DOF is good. I'm thinking of having some extreme foreground leaves a bit out of focus

Shakes
Thanks for that. I want to stick to the recommended pixel dimensions given in the info but I see your point about needing more sky. I'll definitely move the camera

Soapy
Hey Soapy, SSS is easier than it looks. You just have to turn it on and then make sure you have a light shining through the material. These days I keep a special light in my scenes purely for SSS, along with my other lights

kfc
03-29-2006, 02:04 AM
I like the idea of a mouse.
:applause:
great modeling and texturing so far.
but one thing that i feel might be improved is the anatomy of the mouse. I just feel it's tummy is a little too flat.

megabytes2004
03-29-2006, 04:46 PM
ur work is full of great texture. I like the way u textured them. keep it up. i love the cheese a lot. good work u got there. good luck to all!!!


cheers!!!
megabytes2004

mdavid
03-30-2006, 03:07 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143688063_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143688063_large.jpg)

I've had a fun morning doing a tree. I wanted one of those grand buttress root fig trees in the background, partly because I like the look of them, and partly to continue emphasising the scale of everything.

The mesh is simple and quick to make, because I'm using Z-Brush to paint in the sinewey detail. I must admit, I still find Z-Brush confusing - I guess I have to use it more to become familiar with it - but I love what it can do.

I'm much more familiar with Cinema, so that's where it was textured and lit

mdavid
03-30-2006, 03:15 AM
kfc
Thanks for the suggestion. The little guy will give the impression of putting on a few rodent pounds when his fur goes back on, but I'll still have another look at him

megabytes2004
Much appreciated!

shakes
03-30-2006, 04:34 AM
what a great tool zbrush is. looks good mark.

soapy
03-30-2006, 06:41 PM
Nice tree Mark. I guess one of these days I better take a serious run at zbrush. Especially if I am going to use SPD a lot. The interface seems whacky but I suspect it would be worth getting into. It looks like you've got the normal map thing sorted out.

mdavid
03-31-2006, 11:36 PM
I've been thinking about this scene and I want to model another character - a mouse. And here, finally, is the story behind what I'm doing:


THE STORY
The rat was tired of being the smartest subject in the laboratory. In the early days he got a strange thrill from being first out of the maze. Not any more.

When the scientists went home at night, the rat would sneak out of the lab and creep down to the waterside to work on his boat - the Cheddar Warrior. The name inspired hope and awe in the rat - he trusted that it was a good omen. He had an intense pride in his boat - he believed it could tackle any body of water, and one day he planned to use it to escape. To flee this place where rats were forced to run mazes, and to seek the mythical Rodent Island where rats and mice ran free in the sunshine.

And then one morning before the scientists had turned up, one of the lab mice whispered some news so shocking and unexpected, he knew it had to be true. The rats were to be 'phased out'. The rat knew what 'phased out' meant. It meant put to sleep.

He didn't have the luxury of timing his escape any more. He had to leave right away. He ran over to the other rats and urged them to run away. 'Maybe tomorrow,' they said. 'I don't feel like fleeing today.' Or, 'You just don’t want us to win in the maze. Well, we're going to beat you today.'

Even while the other rats made their excuses they heard one of the scientist's cars pulling up out front. The rat and mouse glanced at each other and then bolted out of the room, through the gaps in the walls and towards the waterside.

He wasn't ready for such a voyage. But when are we ever, truly ready for the kind of voyage that challenges every ounce of your strength and wit and courage?

He scampered toward the water's edge, the lab mouse bounding along behind, towards where the Cheddar Warrior was fitted only with the bare necessities for such a voyage. The rat suddenly stopped. 'I'll need food for the voyage,' he gasped. 'I could starve out there.'

'That's something I wanted to tell you about,' his friend squeaked. 'I want to come with you. And as you're about to see, I'm paying my way.'

They reached the boat and the rat was astonished by what he saw. A huge wedge of fine Edam cheese was packed into the bow.

'Let me come with you and we'll both eat like kings,' said the mouse.

The rat was overcome with a thousand emotions at one. 'Of course, of course. But we've got to hurry.' They puffed and strained to push the Cheddar Warrior into the water.

Our biggest adventures sometimes start when we least expect it. 'This is it,' thought the rat. 'The journey begins.'

shakes
04-01-2006, 03:39 AM
Aww, what a cute story, Mark! does that mean there's gonna be a rat AND a mouse..yippee!

Gunilla
04-01-2006, 06:39 AM
Oh yes! Very dramatic and touching story ... and now, let us know - will they make it safely to the destination? :)

makaron
04-01-2006, 07:19 AM
what a story... :love: and I really looking forward to see his buddy now... :bounce:

mdavid
04-01-2006, 08:58 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143881925_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1143881925_large.jpg)

The concept hasn't changed much - just a new character added: the lab mouse. I figured the rat needed a buddy for the journey.

Soapy
I do find Z-Brush confusing mainly because I don't use it enough, but what it does, it does really well. It only a took a few minutes of 'painting' to put the detail into the tree

shakes
Thanks mate. Yep, the rat gets to take along a buddy. I mean, someone has to hold the maps, right?

Gunilla
When I think about it, the ocean is a really big thing, and rats and mice are really small things. Okay, not as small as mites, but still pretty small. But I think they're going to make it.

makaron
Thanks Mona. Another little furry critter is on the way

shakes
04-01-2006, 10:11 PM
very cute drawing!

soapy
04-02-2006, 05:12 PM
Hahah, great story. I find it helps a ton to have a story when building a picture, it justs helps things go along more smoothly.

Womball
04-02-2006, 05:20 PM
The little drawing is great! The modeling is pretty good too.

mdavid
04-12-2006, 05:31 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1144816291_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1144816291_large.jpg)

Here's the mouse that will be joining the rat on the journey. I think the rat stands a better chance of success now

shakes
04-12-2006, 05:46 AM
lovely work on the mouse Mark..very believable, and I love the pose. thanks for showing the progression, too! hair looks great.

makaron
04-12-2006, 07:24 AM
that mouse is a really cute one... and good looking too... :bounce: sure he will win the next beautycontest he enter with that wellgroomed fur. ;) the only thing is that the tailtip looks like you cut off a centimeter or two... so my tip is, if you could just add some to the tail and make it a bit more thin/pointy at the end. A mousetail is usally as long as the body/head is.

mdavid
04-12-2006, 10:15 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1144833346_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1144833346_large.jpg)

Here are the main steps I used to make the mouse hair.

Soapy
Thanks mate!

Womball
Much appreciated

Shakes
Yep, it looks like we're both hooked on that Hair module now. I love the results you're getting in your latest updates

Makaron
Once again, you were right. You've been a big help. Thanks for your expertise! I've adjusted the little guy's tail now.

soapy
04-12-2006, 07:11 PM
Wow super nice work on the mouse Mark. It is pretty close to perfect, except the tail should taper to a point. :-)

shakes
04-13-2006, 01:14 AM
great stuff Mark..interesting seeing the whole process. that mouse hair looks just great!

oceanbluesky
04-13-2006, 03:15 AM
Hey Mark, just wondering what might be your take on creatures with more accoutrements, personal knick-knacks, props and such (like your wedge of cheese)...it may add personality to your characters if they had such things, but then again it might look cheesy (literally??) -- are you trying to keep them natural? Your backstory suggest a kind of outlandish, highly fictional theme but the models thus are are pretty realistic...

Anyhow, the sailboat looks great -- and the sailboats in your portfolio are GORGEOUS.

Good luck!

loverdose
04-13-2006, 06:46 AM
in my opinion, second mouse is even better than the first one. When you retouch the tail, it will be absolutely great.

I think mice have some marks like rings around their tails. at least some of them which I saw. Maybe it's not a common thing, but you may consider adding it to add some personality. Only a proposition. :)

mdavid
04-13-2006, 02:00 PM
Soapy
Thanks. I've already fixed up the tail. I don't know what kind of madness took over me when I chose to do a realistic water-edge scene complete with furry animals. Next challenge I think I might do the nice shiny sphere over the tiled floor

Shakes
Cheers, John

oceanbluesky
Many thanks for your kind words about the yachts. As for the critters, I do want to keep them looking natural - but a few more bits and pieces in the boat would definitely add interest. I appreciate your suggestion

loverdose
Thanks. I'm looking at a photo of a mouse tail now and you're right about those little rings around them. That's another good idea. Cheers

mdavid
04-16-2006, 07:41 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1145169669_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1145169669_large.jpg)

It's crazy how obvious some things are - AFTER you've made all the mistakes. One such learning experience for me involved the way I deep etch the furry bits from Cinema's Hair module

Gunilla
04-16-2006, 08:13 AM
Wonderful work with the fur! I'm impressed by that furplug, you all seem to get such nice results :)
I really like the combined realistic kidsbook style you're using for this - really charming :thumbsup:

Womgoose
04-16-2006, 08:20 AM
This looks really good now. I think it will be hard to make them look any more realistic :eek:
Perhaps the specular is either too high or needs breaking up a tiny bit on the little mouse?

Either way I'm more than impressed, stunning work Mark, I really can't wait to see more. :buttrock:

shakes
04-16-2006, 08:23 AM
That's a really helpful tut, mark, thankyou..I was worried how to do that with my aliens, and you've just solved it for me..genius!
the mouse /rat look awesome!
..GO Cinema 4D Hair!!

makaron
04-16-2006, 09:06 AM
wonderful fur work... I have to draw hair by hair... haha... :blush: better get me C4D soon, me a bit jealous here...

and sooo looking forward to see this image done...
http://hem.bredband.net/makaron/chick_25.gif

handlebar
04-16-2006, 11:16 AM
fantastic work mdavid, i realy must upgrade my cinema so i can get that hair module. I think the mice have been treated in a very sensitive way, fantastic characters, looking forward to more.

varma
04-16-2006, 02:34 PM
Hi Mark;
The fur looks great, especially on the little fellow, and thanks a lot for the comp. tip!
Good luck!
:thumbsup:

mdavid
04-16-2006, 11:28 PM
Gunilla
Many thanks. Very perceptive of you to mention the kids' book style. I've illustrated a lot of kids' books (got a new hand-drawn one being released next month) and the kids' book style is in most of my work now

Womgoose
That's really nice of you to say that. Thank you. I've never attempted a realistic scene like this before so encouragement like yours has helped my confidence a lot

shakes
Hi John, I'm glad it helped. I can't wait to see what you'll do with your furry aliens

makaron
Hey Mona, you might be drawing the fur hair by hair, but it sure looks good the way you do it. And there's something special about the painterly look of your work which I can't imagine trying to simulate in 3D

handlebar
Thank you very much. The Hair module has been a fun ride for quite a few people who've tried it. If you do get it, I thoroughly recommend the video tutorials that come with it - especially the one about putting fur onto a character

varma
I appreciate your kind words. Thanks

Russell-Nash
04-21-2006, 09:47 AM
Hi,
scene dose look better and better. I like the small mouse very much.:thumbsup:

And thanks a lot for this fur tut. I ran into a similar problem with the feathers of my main character.

Russel

Migugi
04-21-2006, 10:02 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1145169669_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1145169669_large.jpg)

It's crazy how obvious some things are - AFTER you've made all the mistakes. One such learning experience for me involved the way I deep etch the furry bits from Cinema's Hair module

There is a more practical solution to dealing with semi-transparent pixels (as in the edges of the fur) in the compositing stage. It has to do with alpha premultiplication (Google "premultiplied alpha"). To remove the black fringe resulting from the black background in Photoshop use Layer -> Matting -> Remove Black Matte.

mdavid
04-22-2006, 02:26 AM
Migugi
Mate, you're brilliant. I had a hunch that someone out there might know the real way of doing things. Many thanks for that. I just tried it and it is definitely better than my method

Russel-Nash
Much appreciated! If your problem with the feathers had to do with the dark edges during compositing, then immediately before this post you'll see that Migugi has described a much better solution

mdavid
04-23-2006, 12:18 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1145747921_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1145747921_large.jpg)

A heap of other stuff kept me away from this challenge for a while, but now I'm back into it. I did some overnight rendering to see how the foreground and background match each other and it's pretty clear that I've got some work to do. But I think I can see myself finishing this now. First thing to fix is the displacement in that sand. What was I thinking???

oceanbluesky
04-23-2006, 12:38 AM
Hey Mark, really like your ideas for the next stages of work...looks great thus far. Might also think of adding wrinkles to your sail and using gobos for your lights to cast varried shadows and speculars. --Really nice rocks and leaves, too. Looking forward to seeing more, good luck!

makaron
04-23-2006, 05:38 AM
here Iīm again and the only thing I can write is...

awww... how cute arnīt this rat and mouse?
the boat is adorable...
the beach is beautiful...

:bounce:

shakes
04-23-2006, 05:53 AM
looking absolutely brilliant mark..the presentation is lovely too.

mdavid
04-23-2006, 09:30 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1145781017_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1145781017_large.jpg)

One of the goals of this image to make the horizon seem impossibly distant - well, impossibly distant for a rat and mouse, anyway. I want the horizon to be hidden by atmospheric haze.

There are all sorts of ways of creating fog and haze effects, and then there's this quick and dirty way I'm using. I just set up an alpha gradient to control the transparency of a grey plane. Then I make sure the plane doesn't cast any shadows. Instant haze!

oceanbluesky
Thanks for your cool ideas. Much appreciated

makaron
Your wonderful encouragement (and amazing knowledge about mice and rats) is always welcome, Mona. Many thanks

shakes
Cheers, mate

Womgoose
04-23-2006, 10:03 AM
Now that is brilliant!
I assume sooner or later I will have to deal with the same problem so this will be very handy indeed.
Thanks for sharing that tip :)

soapy
04-23-2006, 04:41 PM
Nice work Mark. I like the picture that shows all the things you are working on, great organisation! The little trick for softening the horizon is clever.

makaron
04-23-2006, 07:14 PM
I like that view, and I bet that is how a rat would see it too :bounce:

shakes
04-24-2006, 08:43 AM
top trick Mark. gee, you keep solving all the problems I'll be having.. keep it up mate!
seriously, what an ingenious solution!

loverdose
04-26-2006, 07:03 AM
wow... that fog plane trick is totally genius!

mdavid
04-26-2006, 11:01 AM
Nothing much to show for now. I'm fixing a whole lot of little things including the fur, the displacement settings in the sand, the critters' eyes, the fur, the level of bump on the shells and pebbles, the fur, the intensity of the shadows, the fur, the fur and the fur.

Womgoose
Thanks for that. I like the updates you make in your avatar. Your angry pig is something really special

Soapy
Cheers matey

makaron
Hi Mona. Yes, a rat's eye view definitely. Shift the camera even lower for the mouse!

Shakes
Cheers, John. I can't wait to see your city background

loverdose
Thanks. I hope it can help save you some time one day

splotch
04-26-2006, 02:53 PM
hey,

this really nice, i love your work it seems to be almost done i like lighting and fur
leettel sugestion ! leaves on the ground should be brownesh or yellowesh and broken in some how...
good luck friend ..

lilCara
04-26-2006, 09:57 PM
Oh.... I want that cheese! It looks so great! And not only that... fur looks great, beach looks great, you get the point ;) Hehe keep it up!

Oh and great trick with the haze ;)

mdavid
04-27-2006, 04:32 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146108744_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146108744_large.jpg)

Whoah! I did a render of the foreground stuff at full final resolution. Ouch! Nothing better for showing up the faults. Thankfully there's still a month to go - time for fixes, new renders and post work. Here's some of the first and second renders, where you can see my mistakes, alterations and the beginning of a few spots of post work. I can tell you, this is my first challenge here, and it's been a big learning experience for me (thanks largely to the fantastic suggestions left by others)

My advice to the other folks doing this for the first time: don't leave your high resolution output to the last minute!

mdavid
04-27-2006, 04:35 AM
splotch
Thanks for your suggestion about the leaves on the ground. You're right. I'll definitely work on it. Gum leaves tend to take a very long time to break down on the ground - part of the complicated story about why Australia's soils are so dreadful - but my ones look far too fresh and new

lilCara
Cheers! I've got nothing but respect for the folks who regularly set up their atmospheric fog and haze effects properly. As you'd have noticed, my quick method only works here because I've got nothing between the foreground and the horizon. If there'd been tall mountains and stuff at various points towards the distance then it would be back to the correct method in order to get the right distance haze effect

mdavid
04-27-2006, 04:56 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146110214_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146110214_large.jpg)

Just the mouse by himself, at final resolution

shakes
04-27-2006, 05:02 AM
really stunning work, Mark! superb fur!

Womball
04-27-2006, 06:00 AM
That looks almost real combined with a painting style! Although the characters seem to lack volume in the fur area, this may be due to the hair not casting shadows?

Gunilla
04-27-2006, 07:32 AM
Oh my! That mouse ir really beautiful - fur work is great :thumbsup:
And a useful experience to try the fullres at this stage ... I'm going to do the same, thanks!

stefgrafx
04-27-2006, 07:42 AM
great details, very good job with fur... :thumbsup:

FlaminGlow
04-27-2006, 10:33 AM
Wow great progress Mark i like the sand material you made it perfectly it looks so real even if it is a real picture the sand little pieces show great and i suggest you make some affected parts of it by the legs of your mouse where it will be great, :thumbsup:

makaron
04-27-2006, 11:44 AM
hmmm. this update is not good at all for me to look at... I get an sudden urge to call the petstore and ask if they have any grey mouses for sale... :D haha

this is just great... :bounce: maybe his toes on the backfeets could be burried in the sand, so it looks like he really try to push the boat... :)

mdavid
04-28-2006, 12:24 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146180281_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146180281_large.jpg)

Thanks to Womball's helpful comments about the previous mouse update, I was keen to go back to my Hair settings. I enjoy using the Hair module, but I admit that I find lighting it very tricky, especially when you have a scene with a lot of other stuff going on. So I've changed some stuff and got the hair working better, ignoring the rest of the mouse, and composited just the improved fur onto the old body

mdavid
04-28-2006, 12:26 AM
shakes
Thanks again matey

Womball
You were right about the fur. MANY thanks for your comments. After reading them I went back and did a new version, and I'm much happier with it now

Gunilla
I appreciate your encouragement a lot. Cheers

stefgrafx
Thanks for that. And congratulations to you again for finishing such a wonderful piece so early

FlaminGlow
I appreciate your comments and I have definitely started moving bits of sand around now. More sand details are on their way

makaron
Cheers, Mona. I've started digging the little guy's feet into the sand already

alvin-cgi
04-28-2006, 12:52 AM
ah... mouse looks really nice, and looks real as well:cool:



The Journey Begins (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=322760&highlight=alvin)
Spectacular 3D (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=275950&highlight=alvin)

Climax
04-28-2006, 01:15 AM
The little one looks pretty good ;), the big one looks kind of squashed, maybe other pose of the right arm would help, what are u using for hair? looks nice :cool:

mdavid
04-28-2006, 05:30 AM
alvin_cgi
Thanks!

Climax
Yep, I should look again at that right arm. Thanks for that. I'm using the Hair module in Cinema 4D

Gunilla
04-29-2006, 09:19 AM
Hey Mark, nice Frog King over at renderosity! I didn't know you where doing that one too - great job and good luck! :thumbsup:

shakes
04-30-2006, 12:05 AM
I like that, Mark- he looks like a dirty ol rat now!

oceanbluesky
04-30-2006, 12:43 AM
Wow Mark! Really nice shading on that hair -- the improvement is dramatic and yet I didn't think anything was 'wrong' with the previous render...had to keep going back and forth to look at each render to see what was making it work...comparing eyes, skin, cast shadow...surprised such a difference can be achieved within the hair shader alone. Hope it didn't take forever tweaking that (hair takes me dayssssszzz.....) --Great work though! Looking forward to more!

mdavid
04-30-2006, 03:12 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146363174_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146363174_large.jpg)

It feels like most of this challenge for me has been spent working on the rat. Some of the suggestions I've been receiving have been very encouraging and I'm grateful for those, but the feedback was clear that the rat wasn't quite right. I'm happier with the mouse now, but when I looked at the rat again I realised I was looking at something that appeared more like, well, I'm not sure. A ferret? Or a lab rat that's run a few too many mazes (at least that fits in with my story!) So I've been back to the polys, and also trimming the little guy's fur, plus a small amount of post work. I think - I hope - the little guy looks more like a rat now.

mdavid
04-30-2006, 03:23 AM
Gunilla
Many thanks. That's really nice of you. I had to retreat from this challenge for a while until the other one was finished

Shakes
Cheers, John. As long as he looks vaguely 'rodent' then I'm pleased

oceanbluesky
I appreciate your kind words. The truth is I have a lot to learn about lighting the fur. Ah, but there's always compositing and post effects!

shakes
04-30-2006, 05:50 AM
superb persistence and attention to detail Mark..very realistic!!

makaron
04-30-2006, 06:01 AM
rats Mark! that change on the nose and eyes are just perfect... :bounce:

jddog
04-30-2006, 01:35 PM
superb persistence and attention to detail Mark..very realistic!!
I have to quite shakes ! Congrats Mark, very nice details on the rat fur material :thumbsup:

Julien

varma
04-30-2006, 03:34 PM
Looking better and better! I don't know any longer which part I like the best,
Furwork, ears and hands texture and material, whispers, or any other part in
this render, it just looks brilliant! I hope the final render is big enough to show
all this!
Good luck!
:)

mdavid
05-01-2006, 06:09 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146460174_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146460174_large.jpg)

What was I thinking? I was about to set two rodents off to sea in a boat without a paddle. After days of playing with fur and lighting and sub poly displacement settings of sand it was really nice to model something really basic. So here it is, along with an update to how the foreground stuff is now looking, with the paddle stashed away on board

mdavid
05-01-2006, 06:12 AM
Shakes and jddog
Thanks. Much appreciated

makaron
Thanks Mona. Your help with getting those critters right has been fantastic

varma
I appreciate your kind words. The critters are right up at the front of the scene so their detail should be quite visible in the final

Icarus
05-01-2006, 06:12 AM
awsome work. :D

really digging the rat /mouse combo :D looks fantastic :)

all the best - not long to go :D!

(go the aussies!)

TyR-

loverdose
05-01-2006, 06:45 AM
hello mark!

I really appreciate your attention o details, and you're always making good corrections to an already outstanding image. you're really enjoying it and making it even more enjoyeable for us!

about the sand ans stones... I know, rat and mouse can't be heavy, but if they were "a veeerrry little bit" sunk in the sand, and have left some small footprints on their way, it would blend them more to the sand, thus to the foreground. maybe the trail of the boat too, could be there. Only a suggestion.

And for the stones. They have all the same colour. If some were darker than the others, it would be more natural I guess.

jddog
05-01-2006, 01:05 PM
excellent up-date, your cheddar warrior :scream: is simply amazing !
Jdd

soapy
05-01-2006, 05:21 PM
Hey Mark, you did a good thing reworking the rats head, he looks 100% better now. The paddle is cool, I love that wood texture.

Good luck with the footprints. ;-)

irananimator
05-01-2006, 05:26 PM
Wooow just very nice Work mark.:thumbsup:

VictorAscencao
05-02-2006, 04:26 AM
Spectacular begining, keep going!

shakes
05-02-2006, 09:07 AM
superb stuff mark..you're a perfectionist!!

mdavid
05-02-2006, 09:08 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146557304_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146557304_large.jpg)

Another really simple piece of modeling. These gum leaves will be hanging over the foreground of the scene, but blurred in Photoshop to simulate DOF blur. I've done all the rendering now. Time for post and compositing

mdavid
05-02-2006, 10:23 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146561805_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146561805_large.jpg)

I'm rendering the background as a bunch of files, to come together in Photoshop

mdavid
05-02-2006, 10:34 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146562464_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146562464_large.jpg)

A lot of my post work involves the sand - softening the edges with more realistic random grains. And then there's the water: simulating the transparency and wet surfaces etc. The water effects are done in Photoshop layers, using multiply mode to let you see through the water and normal mode to stop you seeing through it

ChewyPixels
05-02-2006, 10:35 AM
Wow! I like the composition.

Coming along nicely.

mdavid
05-02-2006, 10:54 AM
Tyrinid
Thanks heaps for your encouragement. I appreciate it a lot

loverdose
Thanks for the kind words and excellent suggestions. I've been busy working on the sand since reading your comments. And the stones are now slightly different colours (and looking better because of it)

jddog
Many thanks!

soapy
Cheers, matey. I was tempted to cover the paddle with fur, but varnished wood ended up winning on the day

Iran_animator
Thank you very much. I appreciate that a lot, especially after seeing your amazing work at your thread

VictorAscencao
Thanks for the encouragement!

Shakes
Great to see you powering on all cylinders again, John. Your latest updates are wonderful

Jedi-Juice
Much appreciated!

shakes
05-02-2006, 01:40 PM
beautiful Mark, I just love your presentation with all this. The postwork stuff is great to watch! keep it up!

Gunilla
05-02-2006, 01:46 PM
I agree with shakes - wonderful work and presentation... the water looks great and those rubber leaves are fantastic. :thumbsup:
And you have a very consistent style through all this, very impressive.

coochaki
05-02-2006, 01:49 PM
beautiful work !
i like the water!too..
keep going---=>
looking for more...

makaron
05-02-2006, 10:18 PM
I was tempted to cover the paddle with fur, but varnished wood ended up winning on the day

haha, not even me, the fur queen would thought of that... a furry paddle... :cool:

and that view is gonna be awsome for the sailing team... I can almost hear the brezze and the waves, and smell the sea... and hear those little critterfeets running in the sand... and the low sqeeking in between them about hurry up... :applause:

mdavid
05-03-2006, 01:28 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146616116_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146616116_large.jpg)

This guide makes it look complicated. It's not. It only took a few minutes to do

mdavid
05-03-2006, 01:35 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146616502_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146616502_large.jpg)

This is the basic plan, and there are a few layers within the background. Then of course there's a bunch of minor details to add in order to make the layers appear to be part of the same scene

mdavid
05-03-2006, 01:45 AM
shakes
Thanks John. I've picked up some really cool tricks from your thread so I thought I'd show how I worked too. Amazing how we all have different ways of doing stuff

Gunilla
Thanks Gunilla. If I need to put some microscopic critters into the water I know you're the expert to consult

coochaki
Much appreciated!

makaron
Thanks Mona. Of course, if I need to put any furry critters in the water (otters?), then you're the expert!

makaron
05-03-2006, 05:56 AM
an otter? they are so big, he might scare the rat and mouse... :eek: but that would be so cute, not the scare I mean... with an otter that look at them, laying on his back eating his food like otters do... yeah, or a duckling floating outthere? or a fish that pops up his head and staring at them?.. :p haha, any more suggestions to you already finished modeling? a couple of ants or bugs maybe crawling around? or some birds that fly in the sky?

oceanbluesky
05-03-2006, 05:59 AM
Very nice comp layout...hope it is used in a "How this winning entry was made" article. : ) Really coming along...love the knick-knacks in the boat. Good luck!

mdavid
05-03-2006, 06:02 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146632525_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146632525_large.jpg)

The little guys will need something to bail water out with once they get out onto the ocean. So they've got a plastic bottle top stashed into the bow - it's mouse-sized and it floats. I'm wondering if this idea works though. Maybe I should take it out.

This part of the scene is pretty much finished now. Click on the image to see it at full final resolution.

mdavid
05-03-2006, 06:13 AM
makaron
It sure would be nice to do some more wildlife, but when I think seriously about it and look at my schedule I realise my time's running out. So the little guys will get an otter-free start to their journey

oceanbluesky
I really appreciate your kind words very much. Thank you

shakes
05-03-2006, 10:49 AM
gosh, gotta say it again, your mini tutorials are fantastic, Mark! really interesting info, combined with beautiful presentation. you're a legend!
love the little water bucket..just checked the lovely high res,,and it's a ..soft drink bottle cap!..very clever, mate!

Russell-Nash
05-03-2006, 10:51 AM
Just have to say once more:

WOW :bowdown:

Such a great entry.

Can you tell us how you made the ropes, please.

Russel

mdavid
05-03-2006, 02:41 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146663710_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146663710_large.jpg)

Here's how I made the rope

oceanbluesky
05-03-2006, 02:48 PM
Hey Mark, that's the most innovative rope modeling solution I've seen yet! Very nice, saves mucho tiempo! Thanks for sharing!

mdavid
05-03-2006, 02:50 PM
shakes
Thanks again matey

Russel-Nash
Hi Russel. Thank you for your very kind words. Just above this I've posted a guide to how I made the rope. Cheers.

oceanbluesky
You're welcome! :)

soapy
05-03-2006, 06:09 PM
Well, I guess now I have to say it is a toss up between you and Shakes for the community award. Those tuts are great.

It is interesting to watch the balancing act between realism and cartoon/fantasy that you are working through here Mark. I am dealing with the same sort of process. I love the fact that the image style is completely realistic and yet the concept is totally preposterous. Mucho fun.

Russell-Nash
05-03-2006, 06:50 PM
Wow, thank you very much.:bounce:

Now I have to find out how to applly this to Animation:Master. It's spline based modeling, but it should work somehow.

Russel

varma
05-04-2006, 09:50 AM
Hey Mark; tha't a very ingenious way of doing ropes or even braid, thanks for sharing that!
The shading on the boat and stuff looks real good by the way!
Keep up the good work!
:thumbsup:

Gunilla
05-04-2006, 05:39 PM
Agree with the rest here - that rope trick is really useful, thanks! :thumbsup:

And the plastic bottle top works fine for me, nice detail - it will take some time before you see and recognise it.

shakes
05-04-2006, 10:06 PM
another top trick! you deserve the community award for all this. really interesting stuff!

mdavid
05-05-2006, 03:38 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146796727_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146796727_large.jpg)

The extreme-foreground gum tree leaves are pushed out of focus in Photoshop. Easy. But how much to blur the background (if at all)?

I've been trying different camera DOF settings, then using multipass rendering to save the depth info into a PSD file. By turning off all the lights I'm able to render that file very quickly. After all, depth information does not rely on light!

So then I open my previous Photoshop file, and drag the new depth info channel into it. I can use that channel to make a selection of my background and try different levels of blur, based on the correct depth information, in real time. Cool! Drag a slider and watch DOF ease in and out in real time! If only Photographers had it that good.

The question is how good it looks.

I admit, it's a bit hard to explain to an outsider why you'd spend weeks of your time making the most beautiful scene you can and to then blur it. But there's no doubting how cool the result can be - if it's done right.

I want the eye to be drawn to the rat and mouse. I had the foreground leaves in the wrong place before, and had too many of them too. The result was that it led your eye to the middle of the sail, instead of the critters. So that's the kind of stuff I've been playing/struggling with lately. But I think the lower image is starting to get there.

mdavid
05-05-2006, 04:04 AM
soapy
Thanks Jim. You've totally summed up what I'm trying to do with realism vs fantasy. Using 3D to depict a scene that's impossible in real life. I love that kind of stuff. It's why I spend too much time watching all the blockbuster movies with their special effects - seeing stuff that you just don't see every day

Russel-Nash
You're welcome. It can be frustrating - applying tricks from one software package to another software package. But having watched your work progress it sure looks to me like you know your way around Animation Master. Good luck

varma
Thanks for that. I sincerely doubt that I'm the first one to do things the way I do. So I'd never claim credit for that. But I'm all for sharing the tricks that I've got

Gunilla
Thanks for that. I took a look at a real bottle top and was surprised by how it was designed. I based the bottle top on what I saw rather than how I'd imagined/remembered them

shakes
That's really kind of you (and soapy) to think about me in that category, but personally I think your participation in this challenge has been fantastic

soapy
05-05-2006, 06:27 AM
Nice set up for the DOF. Either choice works really, I guess it comes down to a matter of taste. It is tough to judge at this res but I am leaning towards saying, with BG blur is better.

gpepper
05-05-2006, 09:18 AM
Excellent thread ! I never saw it before but I'm quiet impressed by the work you have done in your entry !
Nice modeling, great texturing, some things to learn with fur, great compositing work and renders are great !
When I first saw the picture I believed that the mice were reel !
Just excellent ! thanks for all these cool things !

shakes
05-05-2006, 09:59 PM
it's a really lovely image mark! so many great details.

makaron
05-05-2006, 11:01 PM
for DOF, the lower image... no doubt about it... thatīs the way to go... :bounce:

mdavid
05-06-2006, 06:43 AM
soapy
Thanks Soapy. It's hard to judge at full resolution too! I'm leaning towards the blur too though, because I'm aiming more for feel than towards trying to create the most realistic beach scene. It reminds me of the recent 'War of the Worlds' movie, where some awesome cg people created some extremely impressive tripods, and then Spielberg blurred and camera-shook them half out of recognition for a big part of the movie.

grepper
I really appreciate your kind words. Many thanks

shakes
Cheers, John. It's getting close now

makaron
Thanks Mona. Your opinion has helped a lot all through this thread. I'm still horrified by how bad the rat looked before your suggestions appeared - on things I hadn't even noticed!

mdavid
05-06-2006, 06:45 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146894358_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1146894358_large.jpg)

People who've seen this thread know my image is mainly made up two composited layers: the foreground stuff (sand, boat, critters) - and background stuff (water, reeds shoreline). I did it like that because I've got different lighting setups for them, and also because I wanted my computer to finish rendering before 2007.

But that doesn't mean I want it to be obvious it's in two layers. So I've put in some clutter to the shoreline edge to connect the background with the foreground. As for the watery transparent effect, that's done with Photoshop layers and is something I've already described on page 14 of this thread.

So I'm really close to Final now. The critters are almost ready to launch.

shakes
05-06-2006, 08:00 AM
you're a very very clever boy, Mark! lovely work.

ChewyPixels
05-06-2006, 11:26 AM
Yes, the clutter layer just gives it much more depth.

You are right on track to finish this on time. I'd wish you good luck, but it looks like you don't need it. :D

Try
05-06-2006, 12:08 PM
Really nice work Mark!

One thing i noticed though. He blurred out leaves in the foreground. You should really put a bright green ss material on them. And let the light shine trough. They are not giving the dept feeling that they were intending right now.

Water and reflections are great!:thumbsup:

soapy
05-06-2006, 03:34 PM
Looks great Mark.

Some hard to see minnows lurking in there might be a nice touch?

mdavid
05-07-2006, 02:28 AM
shakes
Thanks, John!

Jedi-Juice
Cheers!

Try
Thanks for noticing that. You are right about the sss. That's a really cool suggestion and I appreciate it. I'm going back to those leaves

soapy
Cheers, Jim. I'm tempted to put some sort of shadowy things in there, because it will make the deep water look just that bit more interesting

mdavid
05-09-2006, 11:02 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1147212150_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/13/10757/10757_1147212150_large.jpg)

The rat was tired of being the smartest subject in the laboratory.

When the scientists went home at night, the rat would sneak out of the lab and creep down to the waterside to work on his boat - the Cheddar Warrior. He had an intense pride in his boat - he believed it could tackle any body of water, and one day he planned to use it to flee this place where rats were forced to run mazes. He would search for the mythical Rodent Island, where rats and mice ran free in the sunshine.

And then one morning before the scientists had turned up, one of the lab mice whispered some shocking news: the lab was cutting its budget and all the rats were to be 'phased out'. The rat knew what that meant. It meant being put to sleep.

He didn't have the luxury of timing his escape any more. He had to leave right away. He ran over to the other rats and urged them to run. 'Maybe tomorrow,' they said. 'I don't feel like fleeing today.'

Even while the others made their excuses they heard one of the scientist's cars pulling up out front. The rat and mouse glanced at each other and then bolted out of the room, through the gaps in the walls and towards the waterside.

The rat scampered toward the water's edge, the lab mouse struggling to keep up behind him, towards where the Cheddar Warrior was fitted only with the bare necessities the voyage. The rat suddenly stopped. 'I'll need food,' he gasped. 'I could starve out there.'

'That's something I wanted to tell you about,' his friend squeaked. 'I'm coming with you. And I'm paying my way.'

They reached the boat and the rat was astonished by what he saw. A huge wedge of Edam cheese was packed into the bow.

'That's my payment,' said the mouse. 'Let me come with you and we'll both eat like kings.'

The rat was overcome with a thousand emotions at one. 'Yes of course, but we've got to hurry.' They puffed and strained to push the Cheddar Warrior into the water.

Our biggest adventures sometimes start when we least expect it. 'This is it,' thought the rat. 'The journey begins.'

shakes
05-09-2006, 11:08 PM
Huge congrats from me, Mark- really stunning final..looks superb! it's been fascinating watching this thread, and all the meticulous work and detail you've put in, as well as all the really helpful tutorials and WIPs along the way. I'll miss it! good luck with the judging..you deserve to be up there..top work, mate!(and very cute story too)

varma
05-10-2006, 01:02 AM
Congratulations Mark and mice, you made it to the finish line and what a great fun story and I just love Happy-endings!
The final render turned real ace and I like everything about it, Now I'm just waiting for the big resolution image to be available! A "right_click" for sure!
:bounce:

soapy
05-10-2006, 01:27 AM
Congratulations on a great finish Mark. The image looks superb, it is really well thought and beautifully executed. Good luck, cheers.

mmoir
05-10-2006, 01:33 AM
Hey Mark,

Great job on the final image, :thumbsup: :thumbsup: This is a vey nice concept and well executed , I like the Depth of field using the close up leaves and the boat and rodents are excellent. Great job and good luck.

mdavid
05-10-2006, 04:27 AM
shakes
Many thanks John. Your support, comments and encouragement have helped a LOT

varma
Thank you very much. Your kind words are very much appreciated. I'm still trying to get the Final image to be recognised by the system. I've uploaded it but I get the message saying I need to upload it. Maybe it just takes a little while for it to work

soapy
Much appreciated, Jim. Your encouragement has been wonderful too. And it sure is good to see you back into the challenge

mmoir
Thank you! I really appreciate such kind comments. I admit to having been a bit nervous about entering - this is my first challenge at cg, but support from people like yourself has made a huge difference.

------

Well, I think I'm going to have a good lie down now

makaron
05-10-2006, 05:43 AM
I just :love: it... both the story and the critters saillingteam...

the DOF is great now, the characters so cute and well done... your thread is a really educational even for a " I donīt know much about 3D-making" like me...

a job very well done Mark... :applause:
and if I see these two sail by, I promise... I will give them more cheese...

Good luckhttp://hem.bredband.net/makaron/smile/rat.GIF

Climax
05-10-2006, 05:50 AM
Congratulations on yout final piece, it is a beautifull work, very colorfull and funny, it would be cool a pair of glasses on the smart mouse :D
Good job and good luck
:beer:

Gunilla
05-10-2006, 07:04 AM
Congrats on finishing such a wonderful image... I love the story - I think you could turn it into a whole childrens book if you like. Good luck! :applause:

Rebeccak
05-10-2006, 07:08 AM
How cute! I loved your first concept sketch, it's very cool to see this completed. Congratulations! :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

shakes
05-10-2006, 10:43 PM
I love the story - I think you could turn it into a whole childrens book if you like.

I agree Mark..please do 26 pages of illustrations like this! see you in 5 years!

mdavid
05-11-2006, 02:18 AM
makaron
Thanks so much Mona! I loved your comment about offering them cheese. I know they'll really appreciate that but unfortunately I couldn't tell them personally because they're too far out to sea now. I went back to the shore with my binoculars this morning and looked for them. They were pretty hard to find and I was going to give up, but then I saw a little red speck on the horizon and sure enough it was them! The rat was at the helm and the mouse was up in the bow looking through the telescope. They seemed to be going just fine. The boat was bobbing about like a cork on the waves and kept disappearing from view in the wave troughs - no wonder I had trouble finding them - but they seemed to be making decent progress. The breeze was nice and steady out there.

You know, I think they're going to make it.

Strange. It was a huge job bringing them into this world. Now I'm going to miss them.

Climax
Thank you very much Omar. Hey, I was showing your thread to my friends at work yesterday and they were raving about it. Like me, they thought it was a really strong piece of work. Good luck

Gunilla
I appreciate that very much. Thank you. I'd love to make kids' book out of it but I'm pretty slow at this stuff. Still, the main characters are done now... Certainly something to think about

Rebeccak
Thank you very much!

shakes
Haha. You know my rate of work too well!

soapy
05-11-2006, 02:25 AM
makaron
Thanks so much Mona! I loved your comment about offering them cheese. I know they'll really appreciate that but unfortunately I couldn't tell them personally because they're too far out to sea now. I went back to the shore with my binoculars this morning and looked for them. They were pretty hard to find and I was going to give up, but then I saw a little red speck on the horizon and sure enough it was them! The rat was at the helm and the mouse was up in the bow looking through the telescope. They seemed to be going just fine. The boat was bobbing about like a cork on the waves and kept disappearing from view in the wave troughs - no wonder I had trouble finding them - but they seemed to be making decent progress. The breeze was nice and steady out there.

You know, I think they're going to make it.

Strange. It was a huge job bringing them into this world. Now I'm going to miss them.
LOL, I hate to say it but I do believe that the cgtalk contest has tipped you over the edge, you and Mona have lost your minds..

mdavid
05-11-2006, 05:43 AM
Cheers, Soapy. Glad you enjoyed it. In a crazy kind of way, and I emphasise the word crazy, the point I was sort of making is that after almost 3 months of daily work on the little guys it feels weird for it to suddenly stop. One of the strange features of finishing big 3D projects. However I take your point and if I'm out swimming at one of our Aussie beaches and see them sail past, I'll be checking myself in for some serious help

makaron
05-11-2006, 07:22 AM
and if I'm out swimming at one of our Aussie beaches and see them sail past, I'll be checking myself in for some serious help

I just know that Iīm gonna be looking for a little red sailboat this summer in our lake... I promise, if I see them, I send you and Soapy a mail...
and Iīm not gonna leave home without cheese, just in case... http://hem.bredband.net/makaron/smile/128063%7E123.GIF

loverdose
05-11-2006, 09:29 AM
I am truly happy that you finished, only when thinking from your side! From my part, I am somewhat sorry, because it was very informative, even inspiring, and also entertaining! It shouldn't end! :)

I wish the very best of luck to you friend!

handlebar
05-11-2006, 11:14 AM
A hearty congrats on your final image, its wonderful. A great thread to follow.

glenn23
05-11-2006, 11:33 AM
A wondeful, sweet image! Well thought out and lovingly executed. Best of luck!

Try
05-11-2006, 11:47 AM
Congratulations Mark! Great final image!
Agree with Gunilla, this should definitely be a children’s book.
Must be a wonderful feeling, to be finished.:)

Good luck to you! :thumbsup:

themagictwins
05-11-2006, 12:09 PM
Hey !

Very great picture !! And also a very good idea !

I love the boat, I want the same !!!

mdavid
05-12-2006, 01:47 AM
makaron
Cheers Mona! If you do see them sail past then I can assure you, I'd really like to know

loverdose
Thanks mate. Thank you so much for such kind words and your support. I really appreciate it a lot

handlebar
Much appreciated. It looks to me like you're getting mighty close to finishing your entry too. It's looking fantastic

glenn23
I appreciate that very much. Thank you

Try
Thank you very much. It is very kind of you. I also took your advice and applied some sss to the foreground leaves. I'm glad I did. So thanks for that too. Yep it's a wonderful feeling to be finished. I dread to think how much time went into it and I've got a bit of normal life to catch up with now

themagictwins
Thank you!

safe05
05-12-2006, 04:02 AM
Well done, Mark. Very cute image. Good luck! :thumbsup:

stefgrafx
05-12-2006, 09:35 PM
Great image:applause:... donīt know if you upload the final image.. but if not, you could try to add some floating leafs on the water...

Chappers
05-15-2006, 11:26 PM
Great - really good fur and you get a real sense they are setting out on a journey.