Need help with Character Modeling

[JaMo]

doesnt look bad. the flow to the mouth seems wrong from the way i model but if it can animate easily then its ok. looks pretty good imo but maybe try smoothing the normals so we can see how it will look that way.

[AoB]

Hey nice head, no need to get to workd up over it, it looks real good, if u try smoothing the normals as JaMo suggested u might c sum inperfections in the mesh and take action, but loos real good.

[BakerCo]

Thanks for the comments I will post some smoothed versions when I get home from work. In the mean time does anybody have any pointers or tutorials on unwrapping an organic model such as a head. Never done that before.



thanks again.

Lost...

[alfisko]

In which modeling software do you work ? i know some tutorials for 3dsmax and blender, rather in blender :D there's a lot of tutorials on wikipedia, master jedi google also knows everything ;)
BTW : your model looks good so far, really nice, i just think that the mouth and eyes are a bit tall try to scale it a bit, GL&HF, bye

[BakerCo]

yea thanks I agree, I knew somthing was off or rather is off I just could not place it thanks for the help. Yea i use 3ds max 7 and I agree google knows all lol but I have a hard time finding a good organic unwrap tutorial. I don't so much as need a tutorial as I do some tips from those who do it all the time ;) hehe.


thanks again for your help.


Lost...

[jfalconer]

a standard cylindrical unwrap works pretty good for me, if you want to mirror the details you will make the seam down the middle of the head but if you are not mirroring then try to place it somewhat hidden (ie down behind the ear or something).

[BakerCo]

hey thanks for the tips i'm gonna try that right now. Here are the smooth wireframes I said I would post tell me if you see something needing to be fixed.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5305/wiresmooth6cy.jpg
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/8622/wiresmooth23vk.jpg
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6093/wiresmooth30fg.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5300/wiresmooth44os.jpg



Thanks

Lost...

[cholbrow]

Its not a bad head, but maybe i can help.

First off i would say your best bet is to model head after head. for a bit. (and sometimes model just the eyes, just the nose, and so on. Get a photo and just go for it, "do it highpoly at first")

This is not always welcome advice but you will learn more cranking out models and trying new things then working on one model for an extended priod. (those are my 2 cents)

Something that should help you in your travles.

This tool will allow you to slide verts and edges along other edges. super handy if you want to keep the shape but want to change the geomatry. "super handy with organics."

Set it to edge. and start moving verts around. (might feel a bit wierd at first)
http://www.vertexpirate.com/pics/quick/edgeConstraints.jpg


Here is a prime area. even out those polys and your shading will improve. You can also smooth out the three lines coming out of the corner of the mouth. (where ever possible when modeling organics avoid zig zags in your edges. Try and make every thing nice and curvy.
http://www.vertexpirate.com/pics/quick/faceSide.jpg


#1 spiraling and incomplete edgeloops. This is a problem for texturing, morphing editing selection and even slows down draw speed. Your whole model doens't have to be loops but around the eyes and mouth, anywhere that moves and skin stretches. Also if you select an edge, hit the ring button. I normaly just select all the edges that i want a loop be around and hit "connect" then worry about the mess it makes later. (once the lines are there its easy to work with) You might also try grabing the inner loop (the one right by the eye ball and hit "chamfer" /bevel for you unbelivers.

http://www.vertexpirate.com/pics/quick/edgeLoops.jpg

#2 It is usually a good idea to have at least a couple lines at the corners of the eye. This allows for things like blinking and suprized eyes;) (you can use an extra line in there anyway to kill that 5 sided face
http://www.vertexpirate.com/pics/quick/eyeCorner.jpg

Better yet haveing a semi working eye lid can really sell you model. (i know this is low poly but it doent take much and some times its just an understanding that helps)

The eyelid and surroning skin is pretty complacated. But if you get it wrong your model will look wierd. (not everyone has such a prononced fold in the upper lid. use google or gettyimages (http://creative.gettyimages.com/source/home/homeCreative.aspx) to check out a diffent people.
The eye lid itself is just a whole. But the skin is folded on top of its self.
Again look at as many people as you can.

http://www.vertexpirate.com/pics/quick/eye.jpghttp://www.vertexpirate.com/pics/quick/eyeparts.jpg

Remember to use a real sphere for the eye. put it in and shape your lid around it.

"Hint, to get the size of your eye ball right you can stick a third ball in the middle of the two eyes and there edges should just touch."


Have a look at the eye in your profile view. People are built to see dead ahead. So the more of the eye you can see from the profile the more likely your guy is going to need surgery. (sorry i dont have a pic i jsut noticed at the last second)


#3 Poles on the center line. This is is not a bad pole only 6-12 lines just be aware that poles on the center of the face are far more likely to give you crazy shading.
http://www.vertexpirate.com/pics/quick/centerPole.jpg

As far as unwrapping a face goes i like to use Mapping>Flatten in the uv editor. then Tools>stitch all the edges I want together. Max has soft selection in the uv editor so you select a couple verts in the middle and scale up with nice resaults. (applie a nice checker map and just go for it.)

A seam down the middle of the face is a hanis crime. (but if you must, it makes it super easy to unwrap)

I hope some of this helps:thumbsup:
Chris

[BakerCo]

whoa yea thanx thats a great response. I appreciate your time man means alot.

just like to note I totally agree with what you said first half I have been doing just that but i felt that i just hit a wall with the anatomy side of the thing so i posted for help. Once again man thanx a million this is gonna help out great as soon as i get home it is game time ;).


thanx again


Lost...

[SHEPEIRO]

some real good tips there cholbrow,

esp the eyeball trick, something that has really played havok when late on in the modeling you realise that the model is cross eyed.

could you please explain the "zig Zags" in the edges bit a little bit more, is it vertexs with five or more edges(between nose and cheek in second image), as they are usefull for reducing detail, but create horrid smoothing probs (mini tri fans), is there a way fixing this. it makes my head hurt.

nice head by the way, will look cool.

[cholbrow]

Ill explain with a picture. (note that this adv will not work with super low poly things)

The red is bad mesh, I have overdone the first line but the second, smaller, line is a more likely occurence. Flat surfaces such as the hood of this car are more forgiving of slopy edges then a face. What happens is you get visable triangles in your shading.

(you are always going to have some zig zags in your mesh, but the more you can kill the better)

The blue just shows idea triangles for this mesh, (for fast drawing). If you are getting bad shading and you dont really want to change the mesh or add more faces you can try fliping the triangls.

in max wile in face mode there is an awsome button called "Turn" what it does is flip triangles by clicking on them.

(remember that at the end of the day if your model is rendered textured and on a tv you will not see a lot of the problems. So it is better to have cleen stipes (like the blue)

I would suggest doing some reading on tri stipes as it would help you understand the problems with 3 and n-sided faces.

http://www.vertexpirate.com/pics/quick/zigZags.jpg

Hopefully this makes a little sence.

Oh, one more tip,

try changing the the move tool from "view" to "screen" and click on the Y X plain (so that it turns yellow). then hit the X button on the keyboard to hide the gizmo.

next start clicking and draging verts, orbit the view to change the direction of the tool.
I use this all the time for quickly changing verts

[BakerCo]

I would suggest doing some reading on tri stipes as it would help you understand the problems with 3 and n-sided faces.

could you point us to some where in which to do so?


thanks again

Lost...

[cholbrow]

i found two, but didnt find any pictures...

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=112189

http://www.joetainment.com/Plone/thecgtextbook/realTime/

In the second link tri stiping starts about halfway down the page. (it is worth reading the whole page

I think that the second one might be a better start as the cgtalk artical has a lot of conflicting info.

[SHEPEIRO]

oh right thats what you meant. i was just wandering how you get rid of vertexs with five edges (mini tri fans) (all quads) cos i have them at the present on a skull im working at and when i import into Zbrush, ewwwwwww, i thought you may have a soloution.

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