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DominikSusmel
03-01-2006, 09:42 PM
sorry if link has already been posted - or if it's old news.. but daaaaaaaaaaamnnn :D

"I don't want players to feel like Luke Skywalker. I want them to feel like George Lucas."


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8372603330420559198&q=spore

watch it through the end ;)
I wonder how this procedural animation works...

SheepFactory
03-01-2006, 10:11 PM
holy crap....:eek:

I cannot wait to play that game.

TAMcCullough
03-01-2006, 10:32 PM
That is so incredible. I so ignored this game when I first heard about it. But that was brilliant.

laureato di arte
03-01-2006, 10:46 PM
That is so incredible. I so ignored this game when I first heard about it. But that was brilliant. yea me to apparantly they will be bringing the game to hand helds..

Linz
03-01-2006, 10:46 PM
Flippin' awesome!! That's all I can say :thumbsup:

gruvsyco
03-01-2006, 11:19 PM
I'm not much of a gamer but that looks really sweet!

heavyness
03-01-2006, 11:26 PM
i can't wait to play this. this looks to be one of those games that changes game industry for the better.

Per-Anders
03-01-2006, 11:32 PM
Very impressive, finally a game to look forward to. I wonder when they're planning on releasing it.

JeroenDStout
03-01-2006, 11:40 PM
I like the concept, but somehow the game leaves me cold, I saw it some months ago and everybody in my class basically exclaimed 'wow, this is so awesome!'. But I guess I want to play games because I want to see the mind of the developer, not to 'have a sandbox'. Not sure why, really. Not too enthausiastic about the change to 'pure user content'. For a game it's ok, but I'd hate to see it everywhere.

And it may just become a bit Black & White in terms of expectations.

pnoland
03-02-2006, 12:19 AM
Holy hell! That looks amazing!

mv
03-02-2006, 12:29 AM
Now I must play this...

RockinAkin
03-02-2006, 12:45 AM
My god... that is by far the most inovative thing I've seen from the game industry in a long time.
This is going to be amazing - and it's just going to be the beginning.

Array
03-02-2006, 01:09 AM
I post a comment in this thread but it seems to have disappeared O_o

Anyhow, this game totaly blows me away and I totaly foresee it being a huge time sink.

These people that developed the procedural animation system should go and do some work for Alias and Softimage once this game is shipped ;)

DominikSusmel
03-02-2006, 01:37 AM
These people that developed the procedural animation system should go and do some work for Alias and Softimage once this game is shipped ;)


My thoughts exactly! :)
And finally someone (though Mr. Wright is more than someone) figured out "demoscene" and procedurals have potential for something really great..

I've heard a rumour that spore could be available for both DS and PSP... Maxis apparently looks out for handheld coders, and Mr. Wright said on several occasions he would like to make Spore available for those platforms.. DS is by far most sofisticated piece of time-snatcher I ever bought.. do not buy it if you wan't to work! :)

Rezonance
03-02-2006, 01:39 AM
I am just hoping and praying it does not need a beast of a PC to run. It looks amazing:thumbsup:

Ollarin
03-02-2006, 01:44 AM
Holy muffins! That looks amazing! :|

I can't wait to play it! :|

sacslacker
03-02-2006, 01:56 AM
Gotta love inovative games. I'll buy it just out of support for innovation. Now l just hope it doesn't get me all hyped up only to turn out to suck nardballs

GaryHaus
03-02-2006, 02:00 AM
One word WOW!!!

G out

spmonahan
03-02-2006, 02:00 AM
I wanted this before. Now I can't wait.

lovisx
03-02-2006, 02:11 AM
I wonder if this is an argument for or against evolution. Darwin would be rolling in his grave, the animals are totally not dependent on enviroment for their growth and betterment, but on user interaction, and creativity.

It seems ironic that a game that is based on evolution, doesn't really evolve anything at all, in the scientific sense.


such an awesome looking game, hopefully it will do alot with international politics that might be fun. You blow up someone's planet and your universe gets attacked by four or five others, seems like it will be awesome.

RockinAkin
03-02-2006, 02:41 AM
Anyone have any info on when this is planned to hit the shelves?

vished
03-02-2006, 05:20 AM
I wonder if this is an argument for or against evolution. Darwin would be rolling in his grave, the animals are totally not dependent on enviroment for their growth and betterment, but on user interaction, and creativity.
It seems ironic that a game that is based on evolution, doesn't really evolve anything at all, in the scientific sense.
such an awesome looking game, hopefully it will do alot with international politics that might be fun. You blow up someone's planet and your universe gets attacked by four or five others, seems like it will be awesome.

On that note do you think it would be possible to set it on auto and have some AI evolve a planet, rather than game play being as he calls it purely "an exercise in aesthetics"?
He mentions that players will be able to download and swap each others asset libraries. I wonder if they plan to extend this into an MMOG? Doesn't seem like there's a lot of difference in concept in the end result between spore and multiverse...?
Now all we need are scriptable cameras to create universe level narrative driven Machinima.

Michael5188
03-02-2006, 05:32 AM
Gosh, that was really neat, but I can't help but think this will probably turn out like every hyped game out there, a dissapointment.

I'm not hard to please though, and most games considered a dissapointment I really find fun, so I'm excited. But I have a feeling this game is going to let a lot of people down.

At least its a new idea!

SheepFactory
03-02-2006, 06:55 AM
I think the game is worth the money just to pick up creatures and to drop them on uninhitable planets , that part cracked me up :D

CIM
03-02-2006, 07:06 AM
Spore looks like an interesting game.

eek
03-02-2006, 07:09 AM
Truely Unbelieveable.

Using procedural verbs its incredible, that they are constantly evolving and changing. Unbelievable, incredible, im lost.

http://spore.ea.com/

pearson
03-02-2006, 09:38 AM
Will Wright is my favorite person in gaming. He is so great to listen to. He's been interested in emergent behavior for years and I think it's amazing what he can come up with.

DrFx
03-02-2006, 10:53 AM
Good Lord! Speaking of which, aren't the Creationists gonna be upset? Oh wait, this is more like that "intelligent design" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design) theory.

But nevermind that, the game is actually revolutionary and a masterpiece. My two main concerns:
1- This is going to further consolidate EA's dominance over... well, everything!
2- Are we going to need very powerful computers to run it?

paintbox
03-02-2006, 10:59 AM
If I see this, then indeed the idea of seeing the universe as some giant lab experiment is not so far fetched.

This looks like a benchmark game to me.

TAMcCullough
03-02-2006, 02:55 PM
Are we going to need very powerful computers to run it?

I'm no prgorammer, But something tells me that if its procedural, an ATI 9800 type card would run this game well enough.

I guess with procedurals too, it should cut down on the size of the installation.

Trenox
03-02-2006, 03:12 PM
Check out this link if you want a taste of procedural technology:

http://www.theprodukkt.com/kkrieger.html

Apparently Will Wright has used the expertise of these guys in Spores.
The game itself (Kkrieger) isnt really great, but its an awesome display of technology (the whole game is 96kb!)

About spores: I was truly impressed by the procedural approach to content and animation. This is no doubt a look into the future of gamedevelopment, with the increasing demand on the amount and quality of content in games.
However i am extremely doubtfull about the actual gameplay value of Spores. I think the major problem here is 2 things:
While Sims appealed equally to men and women, spores looks like a game mostly for the guys, and will have to compete with most other games for the same target group.
The gameplay seems very diffuse - if you go in too many different directions with a game you will obviously loose focus. I would rather play one solid game thats extremely good at what it is at its core, rather than a game thats all kinds of smaller yet more diffuse games.

sconlogue
03-02-2006, 03:14 PM
I don't know... Imagine how long it will take for you to build up your army and destroy all the other living things on the planet!:D I get messed up just progressing through the ages in Age of Empires II. The AI will be literally cooking my for dinner in the single player game before I even grow legs and breath air!

albedo4800hp
03-02-2006, 03:55 PM
BOOOOOOOOOOORING I rather play Space Rangers another time. Besides didn't we have that before and it was called SIM EARTH!

Solothores
03-02-2006, 04:02 PM
I am eager to touch this as well, however I am a bit sceptic how the endgame ultimately will play out. But I am sure Will Wright still has some surprises for us in his pockets. :)

slaughters
03-02-2006, 04:18 PM
Looks very innovative.

eek
03-02-2006, 04:33 PM
I am eager to touch this as well, however I am a bit sceptic how the endgame ultimately will play out. But I am sure Will Wright still has some surprises for us in his pockets. :)

Why does it need an endgame?

SpiralFace
03-02-2006, 04:46 PM
the game itself is looking great.

I personaly see it more like the sims where there realy is no end. But the thing that intrigues me about this is simply the amount of customazation used in the process of makeing your world/ universe.

I think this is the most amazing technology I've ever seen in a game, and will definatly give it a try when it comes out, but I doubt it will hold my attention for long. This looks like one of those games you have to invest ALOT of time into, and sadly thats not something that I personaly have much of.

mirkoj
03-02-2006, 04:55 PM
I wanna buy this game!
How? Where? When???

Wizdoc
03-02-2006, 05:08 PM
Looks interesting, but whether it'll be entertaining, that remains to be seen. The Sim games, such as SimEarth and SimLife were absolutely fascinating both in concept and design, but turned out to be extremely boring after the initial "wow, this is pretty cool" phase.

The procedural animation system looks stunning, though.

TAMcCullough
03-02-2006, 05:11 PM
Even if the game is dumb...

Would I love to get a modding community going and see what the engine can do.

pearson
03-02-2006, 05:37 PM
It seems like this would do well as a PvP oriented online game, like Starcraft. The real problem would be balancing the millions of user-directed development paths...:eek: Nightmare!

Solothores
03-02-2006, 06:06 PM
Why does it need an endgame?

Eek, I am just talking about that endgame-stage that you ultimately enter in any strategy game that is open-ended, at a specific moment you are way too powerfull to be hindered anymore. :p This needs to be considered, to keep it engaging. That is all I wish. :)

But I am sure WW did.

Cheers
Solo

eek
03-02-2006, 06:25 PM
Eek, I am just talking about that endgame-stage that you ultimately enter in any strategy game that is open-ended, at a specific moment you are way too powerfull to be hindered anymore. :p This needs to be considered, to keep it engaging. That is all I wish. :)

But I am sure WW did.

Cheers
Solo

Ohh ok, no i was thinking - You can always go back to your routes - the amoeba/protazoa stage. Also remember if your that powerful someone else probably is too!

I wonder whether LOR has seen this?

Bonedaddy
03-02-2006, 06:42 PM
But I am sure WW did.



...WW...
...Wil Wright...
...Wonder Woman...


...there's something going on here. I just know it.


And, I don't think anyone has posted the obligatory Penny Arcade strip (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/05/28).

Para
03-02-2006, 06:42 PM
I believe this video is almost a year old (dates back to GDC'05 but was only recently uploaded to Google Video) but that doesn't matter, Spore will certainly be an interesting game to have and what especially tickles my funny nerve is that Spore is the game Peter Molyneux has always wanted to make but now Will Wright is doing it while Molyneux has only given us monkeys who eat their own poo.

JeroenDStout
03-02-2006, 07:37 PM
And, I don't think anyone has posted the obligatory Penny Arcade strip (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/05/28).
Quite true... I guess.

I believe this video is almost a year old (dates back to GDC'05 but was only recently uploaded to Google Video) but that doesn't matter, Spore will certainly be an interesting game to have and what especially tickles my funny nerve is that Spore is the game Peter Molyneux has always wanted to make but now Will Wright is doing it while Molyneux has only given us monkeys who eat their own poo.
That would depend on their mentor. Mine actually threw balls around as well.

LoTekK
03-02-2006, 07:54 PM
That would depend on their mentor. Mine actually threw balls around as well.
I'll do you one better: mine flung poo at enemy cities. :D

Spore looks bloody amazing. The open-endedness looks really cool, but what really got to me was the sheer scale of the game. That and the exploding creatures. And the of course the planet-buster. :scream:

heavyness
03-02-2006, 08:07 PM
another thing Spores looks to be doing is hitting ALL walks of life. i can see Civ and Age of Empire players playing this, and tons of casual/the sims/nintendogs playing also.

i'm sure the game does get complex, but if its a sandbox environment, most people won't care if their race of whatever die off. start over, have more fun.

albedo4800hp
03-03-2006, 07:52 AM
Thinking about it again I wonder how this game solves two fundamental problems in how life evolved. One is the known chicken-egg problem of DNA and proteins (you need the one for the other) and the second one is why did single cellular life switch to multicellular.

Para
03-03-2006, 07:57 AM
Thinking about it again I wonder how this game solves two fundamental problems in how life evolved. One is the known chicken-egg problem of DNA and proteins (you need the one for the other) and the second one is why did single cellular life switch to multicellular.

Chicken-egg "problem" is more of a metaphor than a real problem since even when single-celled organism splits some could see it as if the single-cell creep would lay an egg that just near-instantly hatches.

Single-celled organism are known to live in small communities of their own forming simple shapes like circles and thus making the whole community stronger in some way, for example just the sheer microscopical size may make the community too big to be eaten by other evil cells. These communities of course share a lot of chemical reactions between each others since if they didn't have some sort of messaging system, the community couldn't even move because every single cell would try to go to their own way. Multicellular life most likely evolved from these single-cell communities as a result to make one "individual" independent from others.

DrFx
03-03-2006, 08:08 AM
The open-endedness of the game should not be a problem: The Sims was open-ended, you didn't have any specific goal where you said "There! I'm done with this, now let's get back to real life!" You had to establish your own goals, like "I'm gonna be a successful actor" or "I'm gonna make a sloppy loser who will kill his entire family of starvation". Spore is like that, you'll make your own "game within a game", so to speak.

LetterRip
03-03-2006, 08:51 AM
albedo,

Thinking about it again I wonder how this game solves two fundamental problems in how life evolved. One is the known chicken-egg problem of DNA and proteins (you need the one for the other) and the second one is why did single cellular life switch to multicellular.

I doubt it answered the questions at all. Proteins actually form spontaneously without DNA. However what you likely actually meant was replicating a specific protein -again DNA isn't needed (RNA, amino acids in the presence of particular reagents will also form specific proteins). Regarding both questions it looks like the answer might be viruses - look for information on the mimivirus.

http://www.discover.com/issues/mar-06/cover/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimivirus

LetterRip

Breinmeester
03-03-2006, 09:10 AM
Heard of it months ago. I really like the concept and I think it's a good showcase that procedurals can do alot. And that's a nice thing to explore. But the game doesn't really have a goal. I thinnk it would bore me to death. It's the modern ant farm.


I believe that in the end consumers still would rather want to be Luke Skywalker than George Lucas, simply because it's more fun and more magical.

DrFx
03-03-2006, 09:38 AM
Heard of it months ago. I really like the concept and I think it's a good showcase that procedurals can do alot. And that's a nice thing to explore. But the game doesn't really have a goal. I thinnk it would bore me to death. It's the modern ant farm.


I believe that in the end consumers still would rather want to be Luke Skywalker than George Lucas, simply because it's more fun and more magical.

Six million "The Sims" buyers beg to differ! :thumbsup:

noisewar
03-03-2006, 10:32 AM
Six million "The Sims" buyers beg to differ! :thumbsup:

Most of that 6 million qualify as folks for whom Tetris or Bejeweled is 90% of their video game experience. At least from the Sim fans I know who played it over a month.

JMcWilliams
03-03-2006, 10:55 AM
Personally I prefer playing in a well constructed universe, as opposed to making my own
universe (frankly I would rather spend my time on my own animation if I need to get 'creative' enjoyment).

There is room for all types of game however, this is just one genre and will cater for the people who like sandbox type games. And there is merit in the idea of emergent gameplay. Though I would prefer to play a game that has a mixture of methods myself. The notion that all games are going to head down this route is silly (which has been suggested on some sites during spore previews).

Procedural tools could be so awesome in the right development teams hands (great artists and great programmers to make the tools). Though I suspect we will start seeing some very poor uses of it in the coming years as it might become a buzz word for a while.:shrug:

It's quite cool that in a way this game is a bunch of game editor tools streamlined and simplified into a toy. Not my kind of game, but I think it will do well.

albedo4800hp
03-03-2006, 11:18 AM
Chicken-egg "problem" is more of a metaphor than a real problem since even when single-celled organism splits some could see it as if the single-cell creep would lay an egg that just near-instantly hatches.


The chicken egg in this case is a real problem. Since DNA can not replicate itself without having proteins they are the catalyst but on the other hand proteins can not exist without having DNA.



since if they didn't have some sort of messaging system, the community couldn't even move because every single cell would try to go to their own way. Multicellular life most likely evolved from these single-cell communities as a result to make one "individual" independent from others.

But where is the gain and why should it give up its individuality? That is the problem, the only reason I can see is here energy gain or easier access to energy resources to keep on existing.

albedo4800hp
03-03-2006, 11:22 AM
albedo,



I doubt it answered the questions at all. Proteins actually form spontaneously without DNA. However what you likely actually meant was replicating a specific protein -again DNA isn't needed (RNA, amino acids in the presence of particular reagents will also form specific proteins). Regarding both questions it looks like the answer might be viruses - look for information on the mimivirus.

http://www.discover.com/issues/mar-06/cover/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimivirus

LetterRip

Thanks that is really an interesting read!

lovisx
03-03-2006, 12:59 PM
what people don't realize is that the chances of life coming from no life is: 1000000000000billion to 1... I think the number is actually bigger then that, if it's possible at all. Life probably comes from other planets like spore was hinting at.

Teyon
03-03-2006, 01:55 PM
After watching that video, I can only say:

"I've found my moving buddy."

JeroenDStout
03-03-2006, 03:51 PM
what people don't realize is that the chances of life coming from no life is: 1000000000000billion to 1... I think the number is actually bigger then that, if it's possible at all. Life probably comes from other planets like spore was hinting at.
Not to sound rude, but why is there a number of posts in this thread taking Spore as a form of realism? It's almost as odd as a thread I read on the Steam forums explaining why the gravity gun was realistic. I stopped reading after he actually used the word 'entanglement', though.

fasteez
03-03-2006, 04:45 PM
really impressive technically
with a lot of differents aspects in the game
a funny melting pot of science , science fiction , anthropology etc
i dont know if it ll feel fun to play
my only disapointement is theres too big steps between
"biological evolution" of the species but maybe the speaker
skipped some to show us the full possibilities of his game

the team developper is crazy for sure :D

and i forgot it lacks a first person (shooter) mode lool

albedo4800hp
03-03-2006, 04:52 PM
what people don't realize is that the chances of life coming from no life is: 1000000000000billion to 1... I think the number is actually bigger then that, if it's possible at all. Life probably comes from other planets like spore was hinting at.
The problem with this theory what is called again, sorry can not remember right now it does not really solve the problem where life is coming from it is just shifting it further down.

albedo4800hp
03-03-2006, 04:59 PM
Not to sound rude, but why is there a number of posts in this thread taking Spore as a form of realism? It's almost as odd as a thread I read on the Steam


Well maybe because it would be cool if it would have been or would be like that. I am really disappointed what it currently looks like. A real Sim Earth II would have rocked but now it is just another God-like game like all we have seen before maybe with a bigger horizon and a few technical improvements. Is that the high praised innovation in the gaming industry? Don't make me laugh if that's it? It is better time to pack your luggage and leave this world, creativity is dead man! Come on it would not have been so hard even for WW to include some genetic algorithms. This is nearly as old as procedural stuff see Karl Sim's Siggraph 1994 presentation.

bluemagicuk
03-03-2006, 06:00 PM
Looks interesting, but whether it'll be entertaining, that remains to be seen. The Sim games, turned out to be extremely boring after the initial "wow, this is pretty cool" phase..
Agreed !!

Hope they add a lot more detail and tiny nuances as well as better, more detailed graphics than the screen shots on the web site. Imagine this with half of half life 2 levels of graphic realism. Cool as !
Wow sign me up.

JMcWilliams
03-03-2006, 06:33 PM
Well maybe because it would be cool if it would have been or would be like that.........

I think the point of the game is to allow players to 'create' stuff themselves and have fun, rather than to be a universe simulator. I don't expect most of the target audience wants something too complex. I don't think it is meant to be real looking or reality simulation, it's a toy. :)

I'm glad they didn't try and make it look too real. I'm getting fed up with over the top normal mapped 'realistic' games already. :D :wip:

JeroenDStout
03-03-2006, 07:22 PM
Well maybe because it would be cool if it would have been or would be like that. I am really disappointed what it currently looks like. A real Sim Earth II would have rocked but now it is just another God-like game like all we have seen before maybe with a bigger horizon and a few technical improvements. Is that the high praised innovation in the gaming industry? Don't make me laugh if that's it? It is better time to pack your luggage and leave this world, creativity is dead man! Come on it would not have been so hard even for WW to include some genetic algorithms. This is nearly as old as procedural stuff see Karl Sim's Siggraph 1994 presentation.
I for one haven't seen a godgame like this before. And this is far beyond Sim Earth. I can see if you don't like the concept of the game, but I find accusing it of not being innovative -and even being cynic about it!- is not only a rather odd statement but also a deathwish in sense that; if you do think this game is not innovative and 'just another godgame', I fear you are rendered with few options but to, indeed, pack your luggage. That is, unless you can get in the industry yourself and can create something innovative by your own standards.
And he could have made something you'd fancy but, quite honestly, he probably didn't fancy that idea as he likes players to create their own content as much as possible, which was the whole point of his spore.

talos72
03-03-2006, 07:31 PM
When I first heard about this game, I too was thinking more along the lines of creating species, but only tweaking their environment and allowing the creatures to evolve on their own as they tried to survive in the environment. Your roll would have been to achieve advancement and guide their evolution indirectly by managing their world. But Spore, as mentioned, is not obviously reflecting how the evolutionary process work even at the most fundamental level. Nevertheless, it may still be a fun game and there are some interesting and potentially innovative aspects to Spore-- especially the procedural stuff.

I still would love to see a true sim system were you are actually dealing with A.I. and allow the organisms to evolve as you tweak their environment.

LetterRip
03-03-2006, 07:44 PM
what people don't realize is that the chances of life coming from no life is: 1000000000000billion to 1... I think the number is actually bigger then that, if it's possible at all. Life probably comes from other planets like spore was hinting at.

Actually we don't know the odds and have no good way of estimating them currently.

LetterRip

itsallgoode9
03-04-2006, 02:14 AM
i'm amazed by this, I can't wait to try it. Like i saw some people say, it leaves me a little cold.

Not sure if somebody mentioned cause i didn't take time to read all the threads, but it would be amazing to combine an open ended game like this with an online community where stroylines/goals/misions, or whatever would be created based on what is going on in the game universe. I mean you could be sent a virtual newspaper periodically like you would in real life and read about what is going on in this game universe and basically you'd be choosing how to get involved in stuff, just like in the real world.

You wake up one morning and read your "paper" and see there is a war that has started on a nearby planet and you decide you want to get involved in whatever cause the war is for, and when your army arrives you see that 1,000 other gamers saw the paper headline and wanted to get involved, so there is a massive interplanetary war happening....that could last for minutes, days, weeks months...who knows.

I mean it litereally could turn into a virtual world.

i know somthing like this is different than where they were planning on going, but it would blow my mind to see somthing like this happen.

Bael
03-04-2006, 04:33 AM
I have to admit, I was hooked through most of it, but he just didn't take it to that last step that would have sold me on the game concept: true multi-player interaction.

I mean, its cool that it downloads other player's creatures, and worlds - but really, what does it matter if the computer 'takes over' locally? It might as well just be a computer-generated creature/world then.

Add another layer at the end-game, where players can actually interact with each other, and I'd be all over it. Make it so I can set up a server for me and all my friends, and we can go at it tooth and nail - making alliances, and actually affecting or destroying other player's creations. Heck, maybe even add a space-war RTS type element, since the game is all about massive scale. :)

The game and technology are incredible. At the scale Spore is covering even a sandbox game can be fun, for a while, but it could be so much more.

Of course, its possible they have something like that up their sleeve - I can only hope. ;)

MrPositive
03-04-2006, 04:43 AM
Extremely inventive, but will anybody play it, is the true question.

PhilOsirus
03-04-2006, 04:56 AM
Even if this is very impressive, all of Will Wright's games have always gotten boring and repetitive (and pointless to some extent) after 2 hours of gameplay.

gruvsyco
03-04-2006, 04:57 AM
I have to admit, I was hooked through most of it, but he just didn't take it to that last step that would have sold me on the game concept: true multi-player interaction.

I mean, its cool that it downloads other player's creatures, and worlds - but really, what does it matter if the computer 'takes over' locally? It might as well just be a computer-generated creature/world then.

Add another layer at the end-game, where players can actually interact with each other, and I'd be all over it. Make it so I can set up a server for me and all my friends, and we can go at it tooth and nail - making alliances, and actually affecting or destroying other player's creations. Heck, maybe even add a space-war RTS type element, since the game is all about massive scale. :)

The game and technology are incredible. At the scale Spore is covering even a sandbox game can be fun, for a while, but it could be so much more.

Of course, its possible they have something like that up their sleeve - I can only hope. ;)
I'm glad it doesn't have any kind of real online interactivity. Online games piss me off what little I've tried them. People with their hacks or whatever, or experienced users coming in and beating the crap out of beginners. I really like the approach they took to adding to "the universe"

noisewar
03-04-2006, 06:37 AM
Even if this is very impressive, all of Will Wright's games have always gotten boring and repetitive (and pointless to some extent) after 2 hours of gameplay.

My theory is that Will Wright, fancying himself a creator of sandboxes that empower people to "create their own narrative" has forgotten one important thing. Most people suck at creating their own narrative. This is why we hire writers, directors, game designers, and musicians. Extreme ludology can never wholly displace the nuances of expert narration.

fasteez
03-04-2006, 03:25 PM
good point , we often prefer to be "guided" through a game and not experiencing that much
it depends on the personnality i guess

PhilOsirus
03-04-2006, 06:21 PM
Right, I always felt like "Ok, this game has some cool gameplay functions and I now know how to use them, but now what?". There is always something missing. Like having assembled your own game console with no games to play (because the game was to make the console itself).

There is definitly another layer missing from this game. He should take a clue from Blizzard and make PVP-dedicated servers or something. But the game probably hasn't be conceptualized for Player VS Player gameplay anyway.

albedo4800hp
03-04-2006, 08:39 PM
I for one haven't seen a godgame like this before. And this is far beyond Sim Earth. I can see if you don't like the concept of the game, but I find accusing it


Well come on in the end it is just an extension of Black&White which was an extension to Populous. And oh yeah what a surprise Black & White another totaly overhyped game which was apparently so innovative, yeah whatever.


of not being innovative -and even being cynic about it!- is not only a rather odd statement but also a deathwish in sense that; if you do think this game is not innovative and 'just another godgame', I fear you are rendered with few options but to, indeed, pack your luggage. That is, unless you can get in the industry yourself and can create something innovative by your own standards.


Indeed I have long given up that from the mainstream industry anything innovative comes along, maybe except for some japanese publishers out there, but the western mainstream market has come long to a stand still in every entertainment aspect. It is not just computer/videogames it is movies as well. Both markets are dominated by sequells, remakes or adaption from another genre (like comics). We are currently in a dark century depending creativity. Good that there at least some indy developers (especially in eastern europe) out there who try to break that cycle as long as they do not get caught up by big business. Big business kills innovation. It is really sad to see that people like WW have to celebrate themself for bringing up something like that and sell or market it as the greatest thing after sliced bread (which is so typical from people coming from big business) I really liked that Penny Arcade strip it brings it right to the point. Another suprising parallel to PM. Where is the Dali of computer games?


And he could have made something you'd fancy but, quite honestly, he probably didn't fancy that idea as he likes players to create their own content as much as possible, which was the whole point of his spore.

Fair enough I can accept that and it probably will go right the same way as Black&White did. End of story

Para
03-04-2006, 08:44 PM
There is definitly another layer missing from this game. He should take a clue from Blizzard and make PVP-dedicated servers or something. But the game probably hasn't be conceptualized for Player VS Player gameplay anyway.

Spore is a single-played game which uses online content. Besides all PvP games have to be balanced so that one can't kill more than one and/or a certain kind of group of minions (combat drones, casted elementals, whatever) which belong to that one person. If you can do that, it opens a window for that certain minority of dumbwits who would in this case get interstellar drive, genesis device and the planet killer and go around and spam all planets - even the uninhabited ones - until there would be nothing left.

I don't understand this whole "It must have an online playing option or preferably it should be focused on online playability!"-craze at all. Why people don't value single player experience anymore?

Per-Anders
03-04-2006, 09:02 PM
Yeah, if it was a multiplayer or multiplayer focused then personally I think I'd loose interest to be honest. I'd sooner live my life in the real world and play games for an occasional short term escape and fun.

ReBootedOne
03-04-2006, 10:27 PM
:eek:
...I must play...

Bael
03-04-2006, 11:05 PM
Why people don't value single player experience anymore?

I certainly value a well-told single player experience, but in a 'sandbox' type game - like this one - there simply isn't enough of a single player experience to sustain the game at the end. Once you get past the novelty of the snazzy procedural graphics engine, there really isn't much 'meat' to the game after your creatures evolve to space travel.

At best I'd see myself making a few creatures sentient, probing the level of customization for their species/buildings/vehicles - then moving on to some other game. I honestly wouldn't even bother with the whole space game or teraforming - I just don't see the sense in that extra layer without some actual multi-player interaction.

PhilOsirus
03-05-2006, 03:39 AM
Spore is a single-played game which uses online content. Besides all PvP games have to be balanced so that one can't kill more than one and/or a certain kind of group of minions (combat drones, casted elementals, whatever) which belong to that one person. If you can do that, it opens a window for that certain minority of dumbwits who would in this case get interstellar drive, genesis device and the planet killer and go around and spam all planets - even the uninhabited ones - until there would be nothing left.

I don't understand this whole "It must have an online playing option or preferably it should be focused on online playability!"-craze at all. Why people don't value single player experience anymore?

Like some have pointed out, it will be fun to find out what you can make in the game, but making is all it's about. At the end of the line you never get out of your sandbox to "play" with the toys you made, you just make them and look at them. Like other games Will Wright was involved with there is a missing link. Players play games to win and progress. In Will Wright games there is no one to defeat, no way to really win. So once you learned what can be done you have nothing left to do. It's why boys don't play with Barbie dolls and choose G.I. Joes characters instead. Gamers in general just want to beat someone else. It worked for The Sims because that game is very popular with women (for the reason just mentioned above), but I doubt the same market will adopt sci-fi and aliens as quickly. That leaves you with a bunch of guys that would like to play the game for a long period of time but won't because of the missing layer where those gamers can actually win.

Frank Lake
03-05-2006, 08:41 AM
Hey Phil, I really believe that you touch on the key issue of 'open ended' & 'god' games. That's the point of balance. If we go back and look at the orginals like "Elite" and others, we can easly see how well balance is played out within the game. It's both clear and logical enough that the players aren't rolling their eyes at it and saying sarcastically that it's a control device against 'cheating' or a balancing effect. On the contrairy it's often woven into the games universe so well that it's a nature part of the landscape.

Hopefully with SPORE he's smart enough to have conditions written into the game that compensate for the player and his strengths and weaknesses. I really hope that those controls are also blended into the content downloadability, so the game can auto-pick from a world-wide user design library to increase single gamer playability.

So when I pick this game up and install it, I'll be looking for an option called "Increased Playability".

PhilOsirus
03-05-2006, 03:00 PM
Well there are two "God" games I liked on Super Nintendo: Actraiser and E.V.O.

In Actraiser, you had a top down view of the world (like in Sim City), had to use thunder, rain, sun, etc to affect the landscape and help your people live through the harshness of nature and face demons that were attacking them. Then you would have a side-scroller gameplay through a dungeon in the map wehere you had to fight creatures and a boss. But all of it was very scripted and linear. But the player had a feeling of progress because he could complete a level and then move on to the next. Until finally all was over with.

In E.V.O. You started off as a very small fish and had to eat various other fishes. When you had eaten enough you could evolve (sounds a lot like Spores) and choose from a list of possible aspects to evolve. Add fins to swim faster, teeth to bite harder, scales to be stronger, etc, until eventually you could have scales and pawns to walk on land. Then you kept on evolving on and on till finally you had to defeat some aliens or some such. Again, it's the same kind of idea but with actual progress as you moved along through the different eras.

There doesn't have to be an ending in the game, but if there is not then there must be a reason to keep on playing. The only thing I can think of that would make most players want to keep on playing is if they could keep on completing goals for ever, like in any other multiplayer game (be it Battlefield 2 or World of Warcraft).

Michael5188
03-05-2006, 06:53 PM
One reason I could see for the game becoming boring quickly is a lack of challenge. I played The Sims, and it was very very easy. I would make $350 a day and my bills for a huge house were like $200 every few days. So I ended up having a whole lot of money, and I would just watch my Sim live his day. I can see how making creatures and stuff is fun, but how many planets will you want to hover over, change, build a city on, and watch. And if there is a bad guy, you can just blow up the planet, and go to another of the 100's of planets. I don't know, I hope it makes it a bit harder to play through than what it seemed.

lexington_luthor
03-06-2006, 08:13 AM
One reason I could see for the game becoming boring quickly is a lack of challenge. I played The Sims, and it was very very easy. I would make $350 a day and my bills for a huge house were like $200 every few days. So I ended up having a whole lot of money, and I would just watch my Sim live his day. I can see how making creatures and stuff is fun, but how many planets will you want to hover over, change, build a city on, and watch. And if there is a bad guy, you can just blow up the planet, and go to another of the 100's of planets. I don't know, I hope it makes it a bit harder to play through than what it seemed.

I had a similar experience with the sims, but frankly I got there without having been very creative. For example, my first time through the game only lasted about 6 or 7 days during which time I created several sims and guided them to success in a very traditional manner. This got boring fast. I mean what is there to do when you have everything you want and you are an information overlord and many servants and a great house?

But the game was not limited to that. The second time I installed it (a couple of months after the first time), I was feeling a bit more insane^H^H^H^H^H^Hcreative, and I decided to create more original characters. This was far far more enjoyable as a gaming experience, and although my characters were almost always broke, on the verge of unemployment, I could finally afford that livingroom cemetary, and those indoor mazes of death for the neighbours' kids. I killed plenty of people, had about a dozen spouses (all of whom mysteriously ended up locked in my shed) and generally created some mayhem. That is what the game excels at for me - not getting in my way with plots and stories and missions...

Besides, I will hear nothing bad said about any game wherein I can kill people using strategically placed toilets.

I look forward to spore. That is all.

Laserschwert
03-06-2006, 10:59 AM
This game impressed me a lot, since I am a huge fan of sandbox-games.

Yet, what astounded me the most was the character-creation and -animation system. Adding limbs wherever you want, simple dragging the bones to whatever shape and position you need them, and the "real time IK" (I guess something that's never been THIS extensively used in games... and NEVER on multi-peds) which keeps the creature in balance, and even respects the maximum speed for it... awesome!

I wish they could put this system into our favourite 3D-packages (mine being MAX by the way).

Renzsu
03-06-2006, 02:12 PM
I think it would be cool trying to recreate humans or those grey with black eye aliens.. I wonder how it handles bipeds.

JeroenDStout
03-06-2006, 02:18 PM
I think it would be cool trying to recreate humans or those grey with black eye aliens.. I wonder how it handles bipeds.
He created a carebear - though in all honesty, the walking looked nothing like how humans walk. It looked like how something with 4 legs and no front would walk if you took away 2 legs :)

WingedOne
03-06-2006, 02:56 PM
He created a carebear - though in all honesty, the walking looked nothing like how humans walk. It looked like how something with 4 legs and no front would walk if you took away 2 legs :)

It was kind of hard to tell, since the carebear walked around with sort of a waddling motion since it had short, stubby legs. It would be easier to tell how it handled, if it showed a bipedal creature with longer, thinner legs.

victor throe
03-06-2006, 07:57 PM
the word on the tech grapevine is that this 'demo' he held at the show was video only with him talking(performing) as if he was playing it.

the point and click stuff is apparently working but nothing else.

apparently nothing exists of that game as such. there is nothing working. just concepts and ideas

it was a 'thinking out loud' presentation

word is, after the presentation, he packed everything up and ran away to wait for phone calls.

just what i heard

pogonip
03-07-2006, 12:34 AM
Well it's been a year so the game is probebly close to done . However if you watch the video you can clearly see he is interacting with the game so whatever you heard was complete nonesense . You can tell some of the stuff like the tractor beam and some of the navigation was buggy but I doubt it was even close to Alpha stage .

Ohh and Phil I totally agree with you to a point because men are so competative. It's the same reason games like Counterstrike and Starcraft do so well , but a counterpoint would be MMOG's which can never actually be won . I mean you can be the baddest 60th level whatever in WOW but you never truly beat the game and it has 6 million subscribers .Essentially it is also just a huge sandbox/playground. It would be a great bonus to SPORE of you can play till you are like a Galactic over-lord which opens a multi-player component which allows you to play each other for domination of each others Galaxy ..now that would be something !

WingedOne
03-07-2006, 01:00 AM
We'll probably have a better idea of the state of the game in about two weeks time. ;)

P_T
03-07-2006, 01:32 AM
but a counterpoint would be MMOG's which can never actually be won .I mean you can be the baddest 60th level whatever in WOW but you never truly beat the game and it has 6 million subscribers .

Well, there's that PvP player ranking and the frustratingly rare item drops from the bosses that keeps you playing till you have maxed out equipments which will help you in PvP. Same as in other MMO, there's that clan vs clan event.

Your statement is not really correct as there's always some form of competitions going in MMORPGs.

Also, I'd imagine a lot of those subscribers were Warcraft RTS fans who'd get anything with "Warcraft" in the title.

Swizzle
03-07-2006, 02:29 AM
We'll probably have a better idea of the state of the game in about two weeks time. ;)Oh, reeeaaalllyyyy...?

Nathellion
03-07-2006, 02:51 AM
This is the coolest thing. :buttrock:

victor throe
03-10-2006, 03:41 PM
in the face of the sheer lack of actual independent testimony of this games mere existence

"However if you watch the video you can clearly see he is interacting with the game "

what a crock....would it really be that hard to pretend to be interacting? i watched it go down on movie sets all the time.

piff

Arrghman
03-10-2006, 04:00 PM
Here's a pretty good interview about Spore from last year's E3...

Part 1 (http://www.gamingsteve.com/archives/2005/05/gaming_steve_ep_10.php)
Part 2 (http://www.gamingsteve.com/archives/2005/06/gaming_steve_ep_11.php)

They expand a bit more on things not discussed in the video.

And I don't get this whole "the demo was a lie" bit. No, it wouldn't be that hard to pretend to be interacting. But what would be the point? Will Wright is an established game developer, not a con artist.

Spinmeister
03-11-2006, 04:24 PM
I love the endless possibilities of this stuff. It's Sporetastic! (http://mediaspin.com/blog/?p=180)

Just hope I can play with it with better results than my experience with The Sims. Did not have the patience to learn and RTFM on how to become a Simsmeister, but that's just a personal problem. Great thread CG Forumnites!

PsYcHoPyRo
03-11-2006, 04:35 PM
when i saw him give this demonstration, he said it was the actual game but he had it speeded up so he could get through all the parts of the game for demonstration - that's where the video rumor came in.

if you ever get to see will speak at a conference or something, you should! he generally makes funny slides and lectures.

AkaKico
03-31-2006, 04:17 AM
wowowow....! I can't wait!

cbamber85
03-31-2006, 08:24 AM
Wow, incredible technology, I hope it comes out when people say (and do a Vista on us). I've never had the slightest interest in Sims, but this looks.... different.

Lordiego01
03-31-2006, 03:04 PM
I've upgraded my workstation for two reasons..

Spore and Oblivion.... and work too I guess...

Although I've personally never been a big fan of The Sims, I bought the game and every expansion pack available. It keeps my girlfriend entertained and quiet for hours at a time.
And THAT my friend, is the genious of Will Wright.

:bounce:

P_T
03-31-2006, 05:18 PM
It keeps my girlfriend entertained and quiet for hours at a time.
And THAT my friend, is the genious of Will Wright.

Yup, it sure saved me from thinking about what to give for my sister's birthday present. :D

JuddWack
04-01-2006, 09:38 AM
Anyone know where on the net I could view this video besides google or would someone be kind enough to host it? I live in China and google video isn't available here. Spore is a game I have been following for awhile and I moved here shortly after the trailer was released.

cbamber85
04-01-2006, 06:16 PM
http://www.sporewiki.com/2005_GDC_Presentation

I didn't download it to make sure it's the right one because it's 360MB, there's a couple on the page, but they seem to be right. Hope that helps.

Albius
04-02-2006, 03:35 AM
Heck, that just made my day.
It's incredible how far we've come from elite- makes you wonder what procedural games will look like a couple of decades from now.
("Computer, create a world populated by ethereal, biologically accurate sentient birds using a postmodernist adaptation of the traditional celtic style and vague overtones of contemporary political satire." Loading... 25%... 50%...)

Albius
04-02-2006, 04:29 AM
It seems to me the real test for this game will be how difficult the goal-oriented aspects are, and how long it takes to complete them- if they're only a short pretext for the sandbox as demo video seems to imply, I doubt it'll do very well. If, on the other hand, the goals provide a real challenge that you work toward using exclusively your own creations, this could be a classic.

pogonip
04-03-2006, 07:43 AM
There is actually much more info then just that video demo out there such as interviews with Will Wright . Just to address your concern he has mentioned that there will only be one playable Galaxy for a reason . He said you could play your whole life and never visit every star or discover every civilization or explore every Black Hole , Nebula ..etc etc Once you get to the Space aspect of the game there is unlimited game play . I mean there are 100's of thousands of world to explore that aspect alone would keep you busy for nearly a life time then add all the other stuff you can do . Spore has the most innovative game design I have probebly ever seen ..IMHO

JuddWack
04-03-2006, 03:59 PM
Thanks a bunch artifex. That was awsome.

Does anyone know what type of hardware will be needed to run this?

Spritemare
04-03-2006, 04:52 PM
Even if this is very impressive, all of Will Wright's games have always gotten boring and repetitive (and pointless to some extent) after 2 hours of gameplay.

that's exactly what I thought about the Sims.

I did *LOVE* Sim Ant and Sim Copter, I never got bored of either.

JuddWack
04-04-2006, 01:32 AM
Well I'm excited but I'm probably wouldnt want to play through a second time with a new creature, even though I guess that is one of the main ideas. To see how different you can create them.

SOE digital
04-04-2006, 07:17 AM
Sorry, but I'm really outta the loop here.
Can someone explain to me exactly what this game thing is all about.

JMcWilliams
04-04-2006, 07:41 AM
Heck, that just made my day.
It's incredible how far we've come from elite- makes you wonder what procedural games will look like a couple of decades from now.
("Computer, create a world populated by ethereal, biologically accurate sentient birds using a postmodernist adaptation of the traditional celtic style and vague overtones of contemporary political satire." Loading... 25%... 50%...)

Probably a *little* bit too ambitious there. ;) even for a couple of decades :D

JuddWack
04-04-2006, 11:40 PM
I highly doubt that games with this amount of procedural art will ever find a permanant place in movies or games. Just imagine if we left a computer to decide which animation would be best for a character. It would completely take all of the personality away.

I can see procedurals being used regularly for things like coulds, grass, mountains, water, particles, etc but there will always be a need for the artist. Maybe....... MAYBE for a game which requires 1000s of characters to be on screen at a time it would work for the dudes in the far background, but I don't believe a computer could ever match a artstyle or stay within concepts throughout an entire project no matter how smart it is.

For spore there is simply no other way because the scope of the game is too large and one of it's main selling points is that the player is the artist. Procedural's will work great for a lot of games, but I believe most of which we have never seen the likes of before. It will definitely open a lot of doors and do so without closing others.

Albius
04-05-2006, 12:08 AM
Sorry, but I'm really outta the loop here.
Can someone explain to me exactly what this game thing is all about.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8372603330420559198 - It should be out later this year or early in the next.

I highly doubt that games with this amount of procedural art will ever find a permanant place in movies or games. Just imagine if we left a computer to decide which animation would be best for a character. It would completely take all of the personality away.

I can see procedurals being used regularly for things like coulds, grass, mountains, water, particles, etc but there will always be a need for the artist. Maybe....... MAYBE for a game which requires 1000s of characters to be on screen at a time it would work for the dudes in the far background, but I don't believe a computer could ever match a artstyle or stay within concepts throughout an entire project no matter how smart it is.


I'd say a skilled artist could design a procedural function to express his or her style at least as well as direct editing- It'd be a whole lot harder, but it's not as though the computer has to develop an artistic expression on it's own.

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