full sail

[daydreameroperter]

hey man..I went to fullsail. It was pretty challenging, and a hell of a lot of fun. You'll meet a lot of inspiring people. But mainly, you can leave the school without much concept of traditional art skills. So it's always suggested that you take art classes before/after the schooling. However if you can't handle the debt it puts on you, and be a skilled 2-d artist, then think twice. It just gives you the run down on all the technology you could want to know about. And they squeeze a few months for art classes, and if you listen can grow in them a lot. but it's really what you make out of it. successful people have come out of it.

[brazuka]

cool, thanks for your info.

[Oni Link]

I'm not going to come on here and hate on FullSail but, their program is very fast paced. You don't really get time to develop your skills. You're always busy with your current class and it usually doesn't have a lot to do with what you really want to do. I suggest looking into other schools that give you more time before looking into FullSail.

[brazuka]

thanks for the info again. I am doing some training right now on my on and i am thinking about buying some gnomon or 3dbuzz training dvd's. I still have 2 years before I can go into any college i want to go so i figure i might as well do all that i can.

[CGalvin]

I know it may be somewhat of a biased opinion. I am a Digital Media student at the University of Central Florida, which is literally a 5 minute drive from Full Sail. I have had several conversations between professionals in the field, and students that go to Full Sail. One of the essential things that I gathered that Full Sail lacks, that many professional jobs look for is the understanding of traditional art skills.

I've also seen that many of the jobs I've been looking at have required a bachelor's degree, which Full Sail will not provide for you. Full Sail is not an accredited institute either.

The most I've gathered from Full Sail is that you learn how to use some specific tools. Unfortunately, they do not seem to give you as much of a knowledge for problem solving within technical fields.

I'd suggest finding a Digital Media type major at an accredited university. Most are good for web development, and graphic design. Many also have music, animation, and game development tracks within those majors.

[detached]

I graduated from Full Sail last March. I will say that it is a pretty challenging school to complete without failing at least one of the classes. This is due mainly to the extremely fast rate at which you are thrown into subjects and the timeframe you have to become experienced enough to complete final projects for each class. In my original 3d foundations class at the beginning of the course had around 35 people. By Demo Reel at the end of the course, there was me and about 5 other people that made it all the way through without failing a class. They weren't stupid, it usually came down to them not making enough time for themselves to finish the projects the classes required.

Basically you get about as much out of it as you put in. Personally, I spent nearly every waking moment from the beginning to the end, in class and at home developing my knowledge of the subjects. As a result I was far more advanced than 90% of the people there. I'm not going to say you are going to be a pro by any means when you graduate because you wont be. Not necessarily from the material covered, its just that the course isn't long enough to develope your skills. I've certainly done that since I've been out of school though. If you are looking for something more advanced, I would recommend maybe something like the Gnomon School. Perhaps VFS. Most reels I see come out of that place rock.

They do have excellent equiptment in almost all the labs. New Wacoms at every PC or MAC, brand new HPs in the Demo Lab (blazing fast), and projectors ect throughout the building. I'm sure they have a whole load of new stuff since I've been there.

If you consider it, I would recommend at least having some art skills to start off. If you don't you wont learn it there. The classes they have basically build on what you already know. And have at least a little experience with Maya.

Was it worth it? I feel like I got a lot out of my time there, and it certainly pushed me in the direction I wanted to go professionally.

Would I go there again? No, I'm far more advanced than the basic to intermediate stuff the classes cover.

Did I have fun? You bet. The time I had there was priceless. You meet so many different types of people. Everyone is awesome and every day is hilarious. Watch out for hurricanes though. We went through 3 that year.

[SpaceRabbit]

There are many four year programs out there I would consider first. Becoming a CG Artist involves the cultivation of many disciplines of art. Rushing that cultivation is not recommended. In my opinion, 4 years even seemed rushed.

Just my 2 cents..

[brazuka]

thanks for the inputs everyone. I have more to think about than i had bargained for but that is a very good thing. i'll keep practicing for these next 2 years on my own and use gnomon and maybe 3dbuzz videos. maybe in a few months i'll be able to post some images to hear what you think.

[clodhopper]

I'm also a FS grad; oct 04'. All the other stuff said is true about the program being very rushed, and "getting what you put in". The thing that bothered me about FS is that their curriculum is not up to date. The hardware seemed plenty suffiscient, they just built a whole new CA building last year (05') and the associates degree program that I took is no longer in effect. Its a 23 month bachalors now-from what I understand.

What i will say, is that they did not teach me, poly modeling, photoshop textureing or zbrush to any amount of impact. But I got a pretty solid job now- and my studio has hired like 8 alumni from FS. So I guess i took what i needed, but i was a fairly adept traditional artist from the beginning. Also, the drop out rate is extremely high. I would recommend looking into VFS as well.

[Mobious]

I'm a senior and graduate in May. I've been considering Full Sail as well, but its just sooo expensive. I talked to an art teacher the other day who is probably the smartest person I personally know, and she advised me that I need to take all that money and put it into a school that will give me a real degree. Perhaps professionals here will disagree with this, but she also said something else that made sense. If I'm sitting in a job interview, me, a Full Sail grad, next to a guy capable of the same stuff, but has bachelors... What they really care about is what we can do, not where we come from, but if they interview the guy with the degree first, and like what he has, why waist time interviewing the next guy who doesn’t even have a degree?



A lot of people who come from Full Sail fail in what they planned on doing. Some people are extremely successful, but most fail. That doesn’t bother me much though, because I know in this industry its not just a matter of knowing a thing or two, or wanting to do something, it’s a matter of having talent. And a lot of people go into Full Sail because they think they want to do something, and have the money to go there, but that’s only the first step, and few are capable of taking the next.



I know Full Sail is like right at the top as far as what they have to offer with technology and everything else. But the question isnt ‘was it worth it’. The question is, is it really worth all the money? With all they have, what you learn, - a real degree… is it worth the money?

[UmbrellaDays]

This is a lot of interesting information, some of which i didnt know before. Thanks Mobious and Brazuka.

[Gehof]

I'm currently half-way through the program (don't know why I'm typing this, I have 3 projects due in the next 3 days), and I'll agree with what everyone else is saying here for the most part.

If you go to Full Sail now for Computer Animation or Digital Media, you WILL graduate with a Bachelors. They've given both programs an extra 9 month shot in the arm to include more time to work on your demo reel and get further into tools like motionbuilder and Z-Brush. I'll be completing Associates and going back if I can't land a job within a few months. Full Sail is definitely a challenge for the reasons already stated; you really have to push yourself to accomplish everything asked of you, and I've learned more in 6 months than I did in 2 years at a local college back home taking animation courses.

As for success rate, they boast about 78% placement, so I don't know where you get the notion that "A lot of people who come from fs fail in what they planned on doing" unless you're talking about the dreamers who want to be built into something. You have to use this school as a launchpad to build yourself, but everything you need to do it is here.

[Mobious]

My thoughts on success rate comes from the fact that most people that i talk to about FS have bad things to say about its success rate. Some of the bad is people who got a job quickly, but it didnt last and after that they got nothing. And most of these people came from the art programs. It seems that most of FS's success stories come from their music programs. Seems... You go there, so you're word is better then average people. But the reason I'm even involved in this discussion is because I've herd negative things from both current, and past students, and even instructors. But I've also herd great things from both students and instructors. One of my best friend's dad is a teacher there and has nothing but good things to say. My aunt is a gradeschool teacher and knows FS instructors who have nothing but bad things to say. :shrug: But like I said, out of all (or few) of the people who dont make it, I can understand why.

I noticed 2 people mentioned "VFS", what is that? I know what Gnomon is...

[clodhopper]

VFS- vancouver film school

[dax3d]

I'm a FS grad, but I have friends who go to Dave School and love it. It is smaller classes with more personal attention. The hours are more reasonable (no 24 hour labs to maximize money), and they have instructors from the industry go out and teach at the school. Look at their site, and a lot of the students are getting picked up right out of school for jobs. Worth a look.

[EyeAmYou]

i'm also a full sail grad. sept '04. everything everyone else has said is basically right on. it's all about what you put into it. placement didn't really seem to help much at all either. it took me over a year and a half to find a job after graduating. yeah, it was insanely fun, but they kinda treat the place too much like a bussiness and not like a school. fullsail really seems to just wanna push as many people out the door as they can. it's totally a case of quantity over quality. unfortunately for me, i wanted to do animation and the course instructor there did teach at all basically. so i basically learned everything from a classmate of mine who was an amazing animator, and just happened to have the patients to help me and alot of other people out. honestly, ur probably better off going to gnomon, or vfs. i dont really know too much about vfs, but the few things i have heard more than positive things to say about it.

[psyop63b]

brazuka: I'm a former soldier (MOS 63B, Corporal) and Fullsail Alumni (Valedictorian, April 2003) here.

Fullsail is quite a place to go to school, but in my opinion the price tag has gotten too high. Their computer animation (and many other program's) degrees are all in the range of $60,000 and last less than two years. Throw living expenses on top of that and you are going to be in the hole for quite a good amount of money.

I owe about half that, because I started in February 2002. Tuition was much less back then, and my GI Bill helped with some expenses. But loan payments will be a good chunk of your paycheck if you borrow $60K to attend Fullsail. Even if you find a good job, which is no guarantee.

You are doing the right thing by self-training. It shows you're motivated and dedicated. Hooah! I would look into UCF brother.

.

[Otto-85]

I am in game design/animation graduate school at UCF FIEA ( fiea.ucf.edu ) with an undergraduate graphic design/visual communication degree from Auburn University.

The first two years at Auburn I started to get tired of my art fundamental classes. Two solid years of 24 studio hours a week of refining and critiquing my art style was tiresome. That porfolio got me into grad school, though. From every industry professional that I talk to, a good if not great art fundamental background is required if you want to be any more than a cleanup artist or grunt worker. I toured Full Sail before I signed up here. They had their student work on all the computers and I'm sure even an untrained eye could go around and tell you the work of people with art background as opposed to those without.

Full Sail is a herd em' in, herd em' out type of envionment and you have to run crazy hours to use the computers at the school. I just wasn't very impressed. Especially considering how expensive it is. Getting an undergrad degree is more time, but as far as money is concerned, I'm only 21 grand in the hole for my undergrad, as opposed to whatever astronimical amount Full Sail is charging for non-accredited degree.

There are a lot of talented people that come through Full Sail, but most of them bring a keen eye and loads of talent to school. In the end, your portfolio will get you your job, and your degree can either help out or not if you are on the fence. God's honest truth, from everyone I talk to, a Full Sail degree in animation will not go to work for you as will a degree from an accredited school.

I was also in the military. Good Luck and believe me, there is no need to rush the education. It will be worth all the time.

[PGillette]

My two cents:

There are some things I would definitely consider and some I would disregard. First of all, no school in the U.S. really has "placement". Some companies may tend to recruit more out of certain institutions but actual placement went out in the 60s. So, what placement really means, is that people who have graduated from that school were able to find some sort of industry related job. Schools tend to pad those numbers so industry related could mean Kinkos copy center. ha.

Things I would definitely consider is the type of environment you think you'd work best in. I currently go to Cogswell Polytechnical College (www.cogswell.edu). It is a small digital arts college in Silicon Valley and I love it. The size for me is really a selling point. I know all the teachers personally and can schedule one on one time with them pretty much whenever I want. We have a core group of full time faculty that mainly teach traditional courses but a diverse group of adjunct faculty who still also work in the industry. This, in addition to an industry advisory board keeps Cogswell fairly current as far as industry trends go. What we do lack, considering we are a non-profit private school is flashy commercials and a brand new building. So if those things are important to you I wouldn't come here. Also, Cogswell has much more of a community atmosphere which I love, and after visiting som Art institutes and Academies, I realize I could not thrive there. I'm not a loner artist. I need collaboration, and peer input. These are definitely some things to think about before choosing a school. From experience, I can tell you that certain students just don't fit in at certain schools which is to say nothing of their talent.

I would suggest visiting these schools for a couple of days and sit in on a class or two to get the feel of the atmosphere there. Then decide.

Good luck.

[SpaceRabbit]

There are so many schools out there to consider, I posted this elsewhere, but I will post it here as well:

http://www.pixar.com/companyinfo/jobs/schools.html


I would highly recommend researching numerous schools, and visiting the few that you narrow your choices down to before you make a decision. Educations are very expensive, especially if you consider going to a private art school. You want to make sure you pick a school that will be right for you. From thier facilities, equipment, program to the town around the school, availible housing, cost of living so on and so on.

Just some things to consider.

[bleumoon]

As for success rate, they boast about 78% placement, so I don't know where you get the notion that "A lot of people who come from fs fail in what they planned on doing" unless you're talking about the dreamers who want to be built into something.


You have to be cautious about listening to a school's boasted "success rate" numbers, especially if they're compiled by the school. There's a lot of people who can find small part-time freelance work here and there, but they never get established and eventually move on to other things. But because they technically worked profesionally in the industry they're put into the "success" category.

[RCristino]

The School I went to in Orlando Florida. www.daveschool.com (http://www.daveschool.com) check it out this is more suggested over anything like full sail. Not saying its a bad school but some of my classmates and teachers came from there and ended up at daveschool. So check it out the movies section espcially!

[Zerafian]

Seems like everyone has a lot to say about schools...I just felt compelled to say something.

Like 60% of the replies here I also attended Fullsail, Graduated in June 05'.

As much as I loved the all nighters and sleeping in lab, which I really did, Fullsail had an effect on my outside life a whole lot. If you do Fullsail, you pretty much make it your life. You can usually get a good 8-15 hours day without a problem if you are deticated. You can easily forget about your life outside of school with them, thats if you go all out.

To correct a reply on the first page..Fullsail is fully accredited, if they werent they couldnt advertise an assocciate or Bachelors degree.........its pretty simple to understand that :).

Unfortunetly I wouldnt recomment Fullsail. You want to be able to focus on your skill and do what you want to do. Fullsail doesnt really allow that at all. It gives you the basics of each "class" per say of CG: compositing, texturing, modeling, etc. You dont really get a chance to get the hang of one skill before you have to change to a completely different type.

I had to take a 2 months leave before the final classes just to relearn modeling and texturing so that I would feel I would get a decent demo reel out of Fullsail.

In the end I would suggest Vancouver, all though you do need to have a decent art ability before getting in there. Correct me if Iam wrong but they are a little picky who they submit because they want good( artistic) students. They dont want to worry about having a bad reel coming out of there. Its worked for them so far :). Gnomen on the other hand, you have to have a spectacular reel or portfolio to get into that school. From my understanding most of the time, people in the industry or that have been artists go to that school. People typically with past experience.

OH, and you cant forget about Fullsail costing a whopping...what...$54,000..no choose, only bachelors. For a 23 month program. Take what you want from that..4 year degree in 23 months..to learn the basics of everything.

Its worked for me, I wont lie. After an intership which I finished in October. In the last 5 months I have gotten 4 freelance jobs and 2 full time job opporitunties..In otherwords..Fullsail isnt a bad place to go, if you have art skill to begin with. It gives you what you need to get started. If you are willing to half ass all classes and focus on your one skill you want. Not caring about "grades"..PFT is important. Go through there will all "D' s" is ok, with focusing on your one skill. in the end gradeds dont f' in matter. Its your art skill. Think about it. A 23 month program to have unlimited lab use. You focus the whole time on lets say animation. While lots of people are worried about getting a B or A in the class, say F' it and squeek by. Pound into animation while they are teaching you modeling. do the bare minimum in modeling class...Now you have just gotten a month ahead in animation. After two years of actual animation and squeeking by, you will end of being most likely the best in your class and than some. Even if you suck to begin with you will end up being the shit..I didnt know a lick of photoshop when I went into Fullsail. Now I know it in and out..That was with only focusing on it for the last 4 months of school.

kinda gave ya some goods and bads.

Think about a 4 year traditional art school first.:) I would have loved to do that before fullsail. It would be a great Idea if you ahve no art experience.

[FunBucket]

I haven't bothered reading a lot of this thread, but I thought I'd post my thoughts on Full Sail.

I don't know if anyone's mentioned this or not, but there used to be a site called fullsailsucks.com. After reading the testimonials on that site, I would never consider that place an actual school. There were some truly bizarre stories on that site. Stories you would never expect to hear about a so called school.

Luckily, I found that site before I signed my application, and before Full Sail actually sued the owner of the site, and had it shut down.

Even if that site was a load of crap, I personally wouldn't risk $50k to find out.

[Zerafian]

I dont want to change this threads subject but I must defend Fullsail here for the most part.


Funbucket: I know your not downing Fullsail but I must say something about that site. Back before I started I also saw that site Fullsailsucks.com. If you think about it. The kind of people that did post on that site, I garuntee you 99% of them did not make it through the program because they could not handle it. Im sure they also had one little issue with teachers or something like that and decided to make that the reason Full sail sucked. So to let you know. Most of those people were to iggnorant, so they decide to generalize one problem with the whole school. Every school has its share of problems.

Dont forget there are 7 degrees at Fullsail. I believe brazuka is only interested in the Animation Degree. Fullsailsucks.com, even if it were up would not help in any decisions cant generalize like that. Just need to think about the @ssholes that write that BS.

[SquirrelyJones]

I'd like to know more about VFS, I see a lot of really good reels come from people going there but I never see anything from Full Sail.

[psyop63b]

I dont want to change this threads subject but I must defend Fullsail here for the most part.

Just curious... You posted a lot of negatives about Fullsail's animation program. Why did you recommend brazuka against Fullsail, and now decide to defend the school?

[Zerafian]

psyop63b: I was giving pluses and minuses to Fullsail. I just figured I should since I went there. Its kinda like " I loved to hate it and I hate to love it", kinda thing.

[brazuka]

everyone, tnx for the help again, since the replies i've been researching about VFS, daveschool and other 4 year colleges that offer 3d animation. trying to find the one that suits me better. i'm gonna visit some campuses and stuff. real good info i got here. the only issue i saw with VFS would be finding a job to sustain me there while going to school. that would be a the thoughest part. but other than that the school looks awesome.

thanks for the inputs again!

[clodhopper]

finding a job to sustain me there while going to school.
don't even try to take a job while you are studyting 3d if you go to VFS, FS or any other school thats not a 4 year program. You do not have the time.

[Ohmanoggin]

In reply to these two quotes:

“…To correct a reply on the first page..Fullsail is fully accredited, if they werent they couldnt advertise an assocciate or Bachelors degree.........its pretty simple to understand that.”

“…If you go to Full Sail now for Computer Animation or Digital Media, you WILL graduate with a Bachelors.”

The Bachelors degree from Full Sail does not have accreditation that is recognized by any college or university in the US which means they have no value to employers, beyond an associate’s degree.

For those that disagree, call a university of your choice. Pick one-ANYONE. Ask for admissions. Ask them if a bachelors degree from Full Sail in Orlando Florida will fulfill their requirements for ANY graduate program. They will say NO, it is not accredited by any organization they accept. If you still don't believe go to Full Sail admissions, tell them you want to go get a graduate degree in a related field such as computer animation. Tell us what they said.

Next ask them if any of your credits will transfer toward hours in a Bachelor program. Sadly you will find that not only will degree not work, your courses will not count, not even if your degree is in game development and you are looking for a degree in Computer Science. The best you can hope for is “Life experience” credit which will probably get you out of a couple of courses.

The Full Sail bachelor degree does have some value, but no more than an associates degree. The credits themselves only have value at Full Sail, which is probably true for most art schools.

I am not making a point about the quality of education at Full Sail, I am just trying to stop anyone from using the “degree program” as a means to a formal education or a selling point to others.


Ohmanoggin

[PGillette]

Thank you for the clarification. I know that many schools will often say "Bachelor's Degree" and imply that the school is accredited when it is actually not. I ran into a lot of this before I found a school in this field that IS actually accredited, Cogswell Polytechnical College. www.cogswell.edu (a little name dropping action). I know there are many more who have WASC, or some other form of accredidation accepted by other schools.

But if you have absolutely NO interest in pursuing a graduate degree none of this matters. It's just nice not to limit yourself.

[LowManMax]

I just got out of the military a year ago and faced some of the same things you are going through. Though my struggle for a quest for a 3d school I ended up at the Art Institute. All things aside I believe that most of these schools do not have great teaches but great students. I have read post from people from both VFS and Full Sail that say that the teaches suck and the only way they learn is through each other. I believe that this will some what be true for all schools so I would suggest looking at the work that comes out of each school and ask your self is that what you want to do. Once again just being my opinion maybe you should choose a school that will allow you to network. I think the reason places like Gnomon and Animation Mentor are so good is because you learn from some of the best and you get that side door into the industry that some of us will not have.

So to break it down I would try and find a school that will get you a job and allow you to network with some of the best.

[clodhopper]

any employers out there who actually care where artists go to school and if their bacholor's degree is accredited? we are artists Our work speaks more loudly than degrees, if you don't like the student work coming out of the school, don't go there. becuase its not about the degree.

go to the job postings, the mass majority of them will say "3 year experience required" and I Don't recall ever seeing " bacholor's degree or equivilent required".

Gnoman isn't accredited either. they are still on a certificate program, if I'm not mistaken.

[PGillette]

I'd disagree about job postings not saying anything about degrees. I have to research postings for my school, and I find many of them preferring a B.A. or B.S. in addition to experience. I'm not saying it outweighs experience or even comes close to being as important as your work, but many places like to see that you've been somewhere and have learned something.

But, to put it more in perspective, it is a personal choice about going to a school with accredidation. Many of us would like to eventually attend a graduate school program. I'd hate to decide to do that later in life and realize I can't because I don't really have a B.A. under my belt. It has nothing to do with jobs and everything to do with your own personal life goals.

If that is something you want to do, then look for a school with both great work and an official backing. They exist.

[SanjayChand]

any employers out there who actually care where artists go to school and if their bacholor's degree is accredited? we are artists Our work speaks more loudly than degrees, if you don't like the student work coming out of the school, don't go there. becuase its not about the degree.

go to the job postings, the mass majority of them will say "3 year experience required" and I Don't recall ever seeing " bacholor's degree or equivilent required".

Gnoman isn't accredited either. they are still on a certificate program, if I'm not mistaken.

gnomon is accredited and they offer a certificate.

[clodhopper]

I find many of them preferring a B.A. or B.S. in addition to experience
I still say "mass majority" does not take degrees into account. The work on the demoreel will overwhelmingly determine an aplicants eligibility every time. But if you want to change careers down the road, like you said "its a personal choice. But i didn't have the luxery of time, money, or patience for a degree- I just wanted to do CG and nothing else.

AryaFX: I stand corrected; but how many major art colleges outside CA except transfered credits from a certificate program? I bet some do, and alot don't.- I'm just betting.

[Ohmanoggin]

I wasn’t intending to start a debate over the value of a bachelor degree.


My only concern is that I don’t want someone at Full Sail or any school trying to convince anyone to shell out what appears to be 60 K now by saying “Any you’ll get your bachelors degree”. That just isn’t right, and I think it is very misleading. There is absolutely no difference at all between a Full Sail associates degree and their bachelor degree.


If you are going to spend that kind of money, it should be for the education you get at the school not because it appears to be a quick way to get a bachelors degree…because it isn’t.


Ohmanoggin

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