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mynewcat
03-01-2006, 08:21 AM
Why Windows Vista Won't Suck (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1931914,00.asp)

I'm not sure if this is old news, but people here are still debating the fact that it comes in 8 flavours and this article seems to shed light on things.



Some of it looks pretty interesting:

Directx10 (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1931918,00.asp)




Aero Glass and the New UI (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1931920,00.asp)"Because everything is a 3D surface, the graphics card is now a shared resource, which requires a new driver model. The good news is that games don't always have to be full-screen anymore to incorporate rich 3D. It will be much easier for games (and any other application) to span multiple monitors and mix the windows desktop and elements with 3D game view windows. "




Will that slow us 3d lot down or liberate our viewports?

Nichod
03-01-2006, 12:32 PM
Yeah. I think Windows Vista will be a big improvement. But you can't convince the anti-ms zealots this, so pointless to argue.

dantea
03-01-2006, 12:45 PM
Aero is *NOT* cool at all. It will slow down OpenGL apps unless you turn it off!

laureato di arte
03-01-2006, 01:08 PM
Rolodex feature
Pressing Windows-Tab presents an Alt-Tab alternative, a 3D rolodex-like flipbook of your active windows. Each of these windows continues to update in real time, including playing live video. It's one small example of the potential of the new 3D accelerated display model.


http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/12/0,1425,sz=1&i=120425,00.jpg


I must say that sounds very very cool.

Dennik
03-01-2006, 01:25 PM
I'm liking it so far. Especially the interface style (stupid reason to like an OS i know), although i never used the curvy XP one, i might use this one, as long as it doesn't slow down the system.

ThomasMahler
03-01-2006, 01:28 PM
I think what the most people are complaining about isn't the technical stuff underneath - cause they probably haven't even used Vista in it's current beta state. I think what they're complaining about is that Vista is so damn ugly.

All the glass stuff is more confusing than helpful, it looks like XP, but with more eye-candy and (still) without any style. I mean, Microsoft themselves put Screenshots of Vista on their page where there's a ton of aliasing problems going on, where you can see Icons that are still from Windows95 (!) and so on.

Of course, one could argue that an OS isn't about the looks, but working with Windows is like your office would look like a trashcan, style-wise.

After about 5 years of development, it'd be a catastrophe if the technical stuff wouldn't be more sophisticated now, but what we're SEEING is basically XP with a visual style that's missing all the style. And the usability looks pretty much the same to me - the Explorer hasn't been updated a lot (what about having tabs in the explorer, instead of having 10 different explorers open at a time?), the Hard Drive System is still the same, all the registry stuff is still the same, etc. Not really what you'd expect from an OS that's been over 5 years in development.

Annuostivix
03-01-2006, 01:33 PM
Doesn't a heavy graphic interface kind of make high resolutions harder for your computer to manage? I love the eye candy, it can be inspiring or otherwise fun. I don't see anything wrong with it while I'm working on web design or something less demanding on my computer, but when I start working on a huge song or large 3d scene, won't this significantly cut into my available resources?

If so, that's my only complaint about Vista so far.

Annuostivix
03-01-2006, 01:41 PM
(what about having tabs in the explorer, instead of having 10 different explorers open at a time?)

I think they're hesitant to use tabs because despite tabs being brilliant, people aren't really adopting them willingly. Especially Windows users it seems... If you read up on Explorer 7 on message boards, you'll notice a large number of people are saying stuff like 'you can't teach this old dog new tricks' or 'why change something that works perfectly fine' about adding tabs to the browser. Now keep in mind that most of the comments that are positive will be from power users and web developers, not the average joe. Most of the negatives are from the average joe, I think. I can't be sure, but it's the impression I get. You can't be entirely sure with the internet.

So Microsoft has thrown tabbed browsing into IE7, and it wasn't that well recieved. I guess it didn't help that the browser was amazingly ugly. But by sticking it into the explorer where there's no alternative (I suppose you could add a no-tabs option, but 80% of users wouldn't understand that you could turn it off) you'd be annoying a lot of old people and setting yourself up for more tech support, I bet.

It makes me kind of sad.

Dennik
03-01-2006, 01:44 PM
(what about having tabs in the explorer, instead of having 10 different explorers open at a time?)

The last update of IE already has tab browsing in it. Haven't downloaded it yet though. Still using Firefox.


Edit: Oups, that came a bit late

Als
03-01-2006, 01:49 PM
What I'd like to see in windows Vista is:
1) improved security
I don't want to spend extra £250 for extra firewall, antivirus, antispyware, etc.
2) repair, reinstall OS which actually works.
Anyone who used SGI machines on IRIX knows what I'm talking about. In case you get virus or something, you just reinstall your OS, and in half an hour you are up and running, like nothing happened.
3) Explorer which is usable, more user friendly.
I hate having to open zillion windows of explorer in order to copy files etc.
Also were is the "new folder" button!!! Also more stuff like better bookmars (favourite folders), copy, move, etc. to favourite folders, stuff like PowerDesk 6 has, also easy to make links etc. like DragStrip.

Thanks


Als

ThomasMahler
03-01-2006, 02:30 PM
The last update of IE already has tab browsing in it. Haven't downloaded it yet though. Still using Firefox.


I wasn't talking about the Internet Explorer, but about the explorer itself. They put Tabs into IE, but not into the explorer. And it's this design-inconsistency that makes Vista so ugly. It's like 100 people had different ideas and they couldn't really manage to think about a smart way to implement all of them, so they just threw this and that in there, not making sure that everything fits together perfectly.

@Annuostivix: Well, in my ears, that sounds like a lame excuse from the marketing guys. I don't think that people wouldn't adjust to something that is really simple to use and extremely useful, I think they'd love it. And if you'd always be like "Well, our customers would probably find this to be confusing", then you would never be able to come up with original ideas.

I mean, look at Apple: They're doing this "Streamline, streamline, streamline!" thing all the time and are successful with it. They show how complicated the systems are that competitors came up with, create something that is simple and easy to use and people are buying into it.

Currently, with XP, there are just so many things that really suck while working, like having no file-previewing on the desktop or in the taskbar (or generally in the shell - ever had 20 IfranView tasks open at a time which all had pretty much the same name and you had to juggle through them? Great fun!) and it seems to me that Microsoft isn't really adressing all of them.

richcz3
03-01-2006, 03:59 PM
Functionality, Speed, and Stability are my big needs. The look of the interface is that last thing I am interested in. I use basic interface setup in my fastest PC's just to minimize resource usage. If Vista requires a big memory foot print and has all sorts of background utilities running just to load, I'll stick it out with XP Pro.

EDIT:
No DirectX 10 for XP Pro. We'll have to see how many developers bank on Vista adoption. Vista will Support DitectX 9. So I am betting DX9 titles continue to made a long time after Vista is released.

NanoGator
03-01-2006, 04:33 PM
I'd pay $200 for an upgrade to Windows that forever removed 'Registry Rot'. I'm tired of reinstalling every 6 months.

P_T
03-01-2006, 04:37 PM
Functionality, Speed, and Stability are my big needs. The look of the interface is that last thing I am interested in. I use basic interface setup in my fastest PC's just to minimize resource usage. If Vista requires a big memory foot print and has all sorts of background utilities running just to load, I'll stick it out with XP Pro.

Agreed. I know I'll be using Classic mode since it looks like Vista's gonna be hogging some of the GPU resources as well for that 3D desktop feature.

Unless Vista lets me install what I want, which is pretty much the barebone install, I guess I'll be disabling stuff like that gadget/sidebar thing.

About the only thing that interests me in Vista is the ability to use Flash drive for extra memory. Security shouldn't even be a big selling point since it's an essential feature.

mustique
03-01-2006, 07:48 PM
I think what the most people are complaining about isn't the technical stuff underneath - cause they probably haven't even used Vista in it's current beta state. I think what they're complaining about is that Vista is so damn ugly.

All the glass stuff is more confusing than helpful, it looks like XP, but with more eye-candy and (still) without any style. I mean, Microsoft themselves put Screenshots of Vista on their page where there's a ton of aliasing problems going on, where you can see Icons that are still from Windows95 (!) and so on.

Of course, one could argue that an OS isn't about the looks, but working with Windows is like your office would look like a trashcan, style-wise..

Totally agree. Vista's UI is so ugly, so childish so eye distracting... Ugly bevels, highlights, transparency everywhere... It has practically everything that is a crime in terms of UI design.

-Vormav-
03-01-2006, 09:47 PM
A lot of the stuff in Vista sounds great, IMO. Since I do some program development in some of my free time, a lot of the improvements to the core of the OS make me happy. It's also very nice to hear that they're completing rewriting the network stack. It needed it. It really needed it.

Also...

You should be able to update audio drivers without rebooting your machine, and failed audio won't cause a BSOD—it probably won't even crash your applications.

Very good to hear, because a lot of the bugs I've encountered in games - the vast majority of them, actually - has been related to buggy audio drivers (and let's be honest; there's no way we're ever going to get a bug-free drive for our Sound Blaster cards. Creative Labs just doesn't function that way).
The problem they mentioned with extreme differences between audio levels in different applications is also a problem I encounter regularly. Good to know that there will be a way to fix that.
Also, having a built-in utility for making an image of the entire system is definitely nice.

Some of the other things I'm not to keen on...SuperFetch, while [i]sounding like a good idea, really means that I'm probably going to have more crap loaded into memory in most cases than I already do. I hope there's a way to disable it.
And while I'll agree that the default UI is pretty awful, it is most definitely an improvement over XP's default appearance. I just hope that they actually allow the user to change all aspects of the visual style, as you can only do with programs like StyleXP and Windowblinds in XP.

'd pay $200 for an upgrade to Windows that forever removed 'Registry Rot'. I'm tired of reinstalling every 6 months.
Definitely agree! I've read some interviews with MS where they say that they have the desire to move away from the registry, instead allowing all apps to have separate, secured configuration files of their own, but I haven't been able to find out if this is actually implemented in Vista or not. I think I'd get an upgrade if canning the registry was the only change!

tozz
03-02-2006, 06:26 AM
Vista is too much bloat for this user, my XP istall on disc is 300mb with drivers and all the fixes, that's how it's supposed to be. I'm really not looking forward to all the unneeded software Vista will force the users to install (Ever heard of customized installs Microsoft?).

As for the GUI, soo much developement and all they can come up with is edited XP graphics. A GUI can look good and not steal desktopspace, as with XP/Vista, titlebars doesn't have to enormeous (just an example). I just don't feel like running Windows Classic mode in the next Windows because Microsoft feels the need to make everything huge without reason.

Looking at compiz I'm thinking "this is how it's supposed to look", if I only could use my software on Linux :)

noisewar
03-02-2006, 06:45 AM
As stupid as I think 8 flavors of XP is, I don't see what's the big deal about the UI is. If it hogs mem, just turn it off. Goto Services and shut off Themes manager. Turn off all the animation doohickeys. As for everything being 3D, I don't see a problem there either, since CGTalkers most likely all have vid cards, and since vid cards aren't doing anything anyways if you're not playing games/working. I'd be more concerned with OpenGL getting backstabbed by DirectX, but alas I've failed trying to love OpenGL when it comes to stuff I actually run.

KayosIII
03-02-2006, 12:50 PM
Yeah. I think Windows Vista will be a big improvement. But you can't convince the anti-ms zealots this, so pointless to argue.

Yeah anti MS zealot here.... Wake me up when buying into the windows platform doesn't involve vendor lockin. Long term it is not very sensible to have your business depending on a single irreplaceable vendor.

Until something happens about that - you are absolutely right... It is pointless arguing how technically good or not MS's Products are.

Beyond that I have to say that these improvements do look good. The hardware requirements look very steep though. I think it would be wise to hold off for a year or so until hardware manufacturers get really comfortable with Vista.

pixelmonk
03-02-2006, 05:02 PM
I'd pay $200 for an upgrade to Windows that forever removed 'Registry Rot'. I'm tired of reinstalling every 6 months.

blame 3rd party develoeprs who clutter up your Windows and Common Files directories with their crap. Blame 3rd party developers who feel they need to bloat your registry.

pixelmonk
03-02-2006, 05:04 PM
Yeah anti MS zealot here.... Wake me up when buying into the windows platform doesn't involve vendor lockin. Long term it is not very sensible to have your business depending on a single irreplaceable vendor.

Until something happens about that - you are absolutely right... It is pointless arguing how technically good or not MS's Products are.

Beyond that I have to say that these improvements do look good. The hardware requirements look very steep though. I think it would be wise to hold off for a year or so until hardware manufacturers get really comfortable with Vista.

errr.. you must be talking about Apple? What do you mean by "vendor". Any "vendor" is free to include Linux versues Windows. A whine without merit is well... boring.

Xevious
03-02-2006, 05:21 PM
So the question I have is which version of Vista is best for graphics? Its sounds like a simple question but the answer seems awfully complicated.

CupOWonton
03-02-2006, 05:39 PM
Now if only they could make a Windows Vista 360 Version with full support *dependant on minimum (similar) 360 hadrware specs of course* for Playing Xbox and Xbox 360 games strait off the shelf.

KayosIII
03-05-2006, 10:24 AM
errr.. you must be talking about Apple? What do you mean by "vendor". Any "vendor" is free to include Linux versues Windows. A whine without merit is well... boring.

By Vendor I mean the people who make the software (not hardware in this case)... Thanks to the DOJ vs Microsoft case you are right about any vendor being free to ship the system with something other than windows. Prior to that famously IBM got its OEM Windows licenses increased 4x while they shipped systems with OS2.

But that is rather beside the point. To move from MS to another OS Vendor requires a significant rework of my skills and software toolchain. In some cases it may just be almost impossible - suppose for instance I have years of vital Business data in a proprietary Database.
My OS Vendor then Proposes that my licenses will now cost 3 times what they did - I have little choice but to coff up. (I use this as an example because it DID happen to a lot of companies in my country).

BigErn
03-06-2006, 09:58 AM
Totally agree. Vista's UI is so ugly, so childish so eye distracting... Ugly bevels, highlights, transparency everywhere... It has practically everything that is a crime in terms of UI design.

suprised you havent been head hunted by MS to design all their new UI`s. Anything is an improvement on 2k/XP personally..

arvid
03-06-2006, 12:17 PM
What I'd like to see in windows Vista is:
1) improved security
I don't want to spend extra £250 for extra firewall, antivirus, antispyware, etc.
2) repair, reinstall OS which actually works.
Anyone who used SGI machines on IRIX knows what I'm talking about. In case you get virus or something, you just reinstall your OS, and in half an hour you are up and running, like nothing happened.
3) Explorer which is usable, more user friendly.
I hate having to open zillion windows of explorer in order to copy files etc.
Also were is the "new folder" button!!! Also more stuff like better bookmars (favourite folders), copy, move, etc. to favourite folders, stuff like PowerDesk 6 has, also easy to make links etc. like DragStrip.

Thanks


Als

1. FireFox, Kerio Personal Firewall, AVG antivirus from GriSoft, AdAware, etc. (all free and excellent)
3. Use something like Total Commander instead of explorer. You wont even have to have explore.exe running. It makes everything stable and efficient and has all file handling tools you need.

Als
03-07-2006, 09:20 PM
Can someone also explain one thing to me, please.
MS update windows is asking to install more stuff all the time (patches, directX, Net stuff, etc.)
But the best of all is that if system crashes, to reinstall it, you have to go to internet and download all the stuff from there.
Also it says install first all the MS stuff, then continue installing other software.
Problem lies in the fact that before you install any security software you need to connect to internet. So once on the internet, while you downloading latest megabajts, patches and all from microsoft.com, you are dependent on the basic system security MS firewall etc.
In case of W2k it was even worse.

I think it makes sense to have different tastes of Vista, so I hope they are good enough to get the right setups for them. I was very anoyed with the XP "pro" setup when it arrived.

Arvid:
Thanks for advice. I'm using firefox, and alas too late, have splashed the money already for anticrap software...
How can I switch off explorer.exe if I get Total Commander?

Thanks


Als

mustique
03-07-2006, 09:48 PM
suprised you havent been head hunted by MS to design all their new UI`s. Anything is an improvement on 2k/XP personally..

The problem seems to be that MS doesn't hunt for UI designers at all. Hence the crap.
Looking at the way you put things in words, one would assume you are working at MS as a junior UI designer and feel pissed off by my post. Sorry if that's the case. I couldn't have designed it better. :P

augustus
03-08-2006, 06:06 AM
Can someone also explain one thing to me, please.
MS update windows is asking to install more stuff all the time (patches, directX, Net stuff, etc.)
But the best of all is that if system crashes, to reinstall it, you have to go to internet and download all the stuff from there.
Also it says install first all the MS stuff, then continue installing other software.
Problem lies in the fact that before you install any security software you need to connect to internet. So once on the internet, while you downloading latest megabajts, patches and all from microsoft.com, you are dependent on the basic system security MS firewall etc.
In case of W2k it was even worse.



First, if your install disc doesn't include service pack 2, create a slipstreamed disc. You can use Autostreamer (http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/System-Tweak/Autostreamer.shtml) for that. For the patches released after sp2, download Autopatcher (http://www.autopatcher.com/).

BigErn
03-08-2006, 08:42 AM
The problem seems to be that MS doesn't hunt for UI designers at all. Hence the crap.
Looking at the way you put things in words, one would assume you are working at MS as a junior UI designer and feel pissed off by my post. Sorry if that's the case. I couldn't have designed it better. :P

hehe.. if only I was designing the UI :) Might beat being unemployed I guess.

I just think its a little early in the day to slag something which is unreleased, and well.. a heck of a lot better than what we got atm, that was all

dan1el
03-08-2006, 11:34 AM
I think that alot of people will look for alternatives...I'm one of them, I started using Linux, and I think I'll stay there.

I'm mainly against the crypting of all files, the PC requirements and the "size" of the OS, it's no longer an OS (Operating System) it's a windows machine...

With Linux my computer can live longer before it is out-dated, it lets me decide almost everything and what-ever cool feature exists other places (like vista or OSX) will somehow someday be implemented to Linux....

Not to speak of viruses, trojans and spyware...

and not even to mention the price for a linux OS....

I fear abit for when teh company I work for goes Vista....hoep I can get Red Hat or something instead.

betelgeuse
03-08-2006, 03:06 PM
I just think the article title is hilarious. "Why Windows Vista Won't Suck".
High praise, indeed.

pixelmonk
03-08-2006, 03:53 PM
I just think the article title is hilarious. "Why Windows Vista Won't Suck".
High praise, indeed.

Yeah it's definitely better than the MS bashing or *nix fanboy topics. This one rocks!

Als
03-08-2006, 08:07 PM
First, if your install disc doesn't include service pack 2, create a slipstreamed disc. You can use Autostreamer (http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/System-Tweak/Autostreamer.shtml) for that. For the patches released after sp2, download Autopatcher (http://www.autopatcher.com/).


Thanks, I will check it out!


Als

mech7
05-21-2006, 11:04 PM
Actually blame MS for using a registry at all.. It's like a commie os. One place where one thing rules them all, it just doesn't work. You would think they would have figured that out after win95, 98, me, xp but no :(

blame 3rd party develoeprs who clutter up your Windows and Common Files directories with their crap. Blame 3rd party developers who feel they need to bloat your registry.

Beamtracer
05-22-2006, 12:04 AM
Is there a different Vista for every language, or have they finally managed to unify all the languages into a single release?

When there is different versions of an OS for every language, it makes it really hard when you have to troubleshoot or administer someone else's machine who uses a different language to what you can speak.

With a unified language OS (an OS that can handle multiple languages at once), you can just switch it to your own language. When you've finished reconfiguring or troubleshooting that computer, you just switch it back to whatever language the computer user wants.

If you've ever tried to reconfigure a computer in a foreign language, you'll know what I mean.

NanoGator
05-22-2006, 01:14 AM
Actually blame MS for using a registry at all.. It's like a commie os. One place where one thing rules them all, it just doesn't work. You would think they would have figured that out after win95, 98, me, xp but no :(

There are technical reasons why the registry is good. But... yeah, I wish they had figured that out. Heh.

tevih
05-22-2006, 02:06 PM
f you've got a DirectX 9 graphics card with 128MB of RAM or more, you'll be able to enable the "Aero Glass" desktop in Vista

I don't like that!! I want my graphics card to be optimized for my specific CG programs!! Not having the life sucked out of them by the OS!! I hope there's an option to turn it off...

amannin
05-22-2006, 08:14 PM
so i take it, there is still no news of whether or not Vista's "3D" interface will slow down 3D apps? (or maybe if i missed it, someone would be kind enough to fill me in)

and i still don't get how staying in a "3D" enviroment will make it faster than switching back and forth between 2D & 3D --- wouldn't a full constant 3D enviroment take more memory / resources than switching to and from 2D???

still confused about the whole thing...

archerx
05-22-2006, 08:42 PM
What I'd like to see in windows Vista is:

2) repair, reinstall OS which actually works.
Anyone who used SGI machines on IRIX knows what I'm talking about. In case you get virus or something, you just reinstall your OS, and in half an hour you are up and running, like nothing happened.
3) Explorer which is usable, more user friendly.
I hate having to open zillion windows of explorer in order to copy files etc.
Also were is the "new folder" button!!!
Thanks


Als

2 - There's system restore

3 - it's beside the "up folder" button ;) (its very annoying when you click it by accident all the time)

John-S
05-23-2006, 04:44 AM
Here is an article that was on the front page of PC Mag. I'm only posting because it seems on topic. This article is not written by pc mag and I don't know how credible it is. Personally I was a little dissapointed on thier ram statements but whatever. Here is the link:

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,2180,1965429,00.asp

I'm not posting to discriminate on Microsoft, just an article on where they are at currently.

CupOWonton
05-23-2006, 06:26 AM
Here is an article that was on the front page of PC Mag. I'm only posting because it seems on topic. This article is not written by pc mag and I don't know how credible it is. Personally I was a little dissapointed on thier ram statements but whatever. Here is the link:

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,2180,1965429,00.asp

I'm not posting to discriminate on Microsoft, just an article on where they are at currently.

Hahaha, my favorite quote from that article.
While the panel is great for simple setups, power users will start committing seppuku if they have to do any real troubleshooting.
I sure do hope they get everything together by the next beta.

kaiser_pro
05-23-2006, 04:25 PM
2 - There's system restore


which is a massive pain, as it wipes the registry clean, which means you loose your prefrences/product keys

if you want to "restore" as linux/unix system, so long as you dont overwrite the home directory you dont loose your personalised desktop/apps/configs

all you have to do is install the few extra apps that dont come with the distro.

having used XGL, and ignoring the pointless "eye candy" the speed up is remarkable. I can use all the fancy features across both my screens with no noticable slow down with my 6600gt 128mb ram. (somthing that vista claims it needs a 512mb videocard, )

John-S
05-23-2006, 05:20 PM
Does anyone know if Vista will have a program similar to Apples Automator included in the OS?

Here is a link if you don't know what Automator is:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/automator/

Thanks!

R3desiGN
05-24-2006, 12:14 AM
I think that many of You guys judge the system before it even came out. Lets wait and see what the final product offers. :)

DevilHacker
05-24-2006, 03:20 AM
Does anyone know if Vista will have a program similar to Apples Automator included in the OS?

Here is a link if you don't know what Automator is:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/automator/

Thanks!Included with the OS? I would say no... however, there are many freeware programs for the Windows platform that do the same thing.

John-S
05-24-2006, 05:13 AM
Ya, I know. I was just hoping they would include thier own supported version. I know that there is alot of 3rd party stuff out their I just prefer if I don't have to do the searching trial and error myself. I'm lazy : ) Thats why I like automator (or similar program). Its like a giant shortcut....LOL

Ls3D
05-24-2006, 05:47 AM
Well since it went beta for developers today I was reading the features, interesting to see the use of USB drives for faster I/O:

Windows Vista introduces a new concept in adding memory to a system. Windows ReadyBoost lets users use a removable flash memory device, such as a USB thumb drive, to improve system performance without opening the box. Windows ReadyBoost can improve system performance because it can retrieve data kept on the flash memory more quickly than it can retrieve data kept on the hard disk, decreasing the time you need to wait for your PC to respond. Combined with SuperFetch technology, this can help drive impressive improvements in system responsiveness.

JosephGoss
05-24-2006, 11:22 AM
which is a massive pain, as it wipes the registry clean, which means you loose your prefrences/product keysn

system restore, restores the registry to the way it was when your restore back, normally a few days back

the registry is not wiped clean! its reverted back to the way it was when the restore point was made

>jOe

kaiser_pro
05-25-2006, 03:54 PM
valid point, but it wipes all the recent changes free.

still each to their own!

DotPainter
05-25-2006, 05:58 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20060524/tc_pcworld/125854

mech7
05-26-2006, 03:29 PM
Did anybody allready tested beta 2 ?

Lone Deranger
06-03-2006, 02:29 PM
Here's another beta test.... how to delete a shortcut... in seven easy steps... the MicroSoft way.. :D

7 steps (http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTE0OTExODg5NUxRSkp0S3J6aTZfMV8xX2wuanBn)

or from the original (http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=151250154&size=o) source.

Well done M$ :applause:

Did anybody allready tested beta 2 ?

quyeno
06-03-2006, 05:02 PM
Windows Vista is going to suck...period. an OS that takes more than 12 gig install and requires at least 512MB is not a good OS. I don't particularly like the idea of 1/4 of my 2gigs of ram taken up by the OS. I don't particularly like the fact that its so DX-centric. I don't understand why some of you guys are getting so excited...if you're a 3d artists or compositor...then you should be dreading yourself, OpenGL support is going to suck for sure. Do you think MS are going to make Vista streamline with OpenGL, the rival 3d API? i would reckon there will be minimal support for OpenGL. Until there is more definate info from MS regarding OpenGL performance and suport in Vista, i'm sticking with XP (its less evil IMO).

capin
06-03-2006, 07:49 PM
Here's another beta test.... how to delete a shortcut... in seven easy steps... the MicroSoft way.. :D

7 steps (http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTE0OTExODg5NUxRSkp0S3J6aTZfMV8xX2wuanBn)

or from the original (http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=151250154&size=o) source.

Well done M$ :applause:


Oh No!

Incredible!

I have this nightmare almost everyday: Somebody is forcing me to write "senior UI designer at Microsoft" into my resume!!!
Help Me!!

ThirdEye
06-04-2006, 09:11 PM
Just found this article on the web, dunno if it's already been posted:

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/vistab2.ars/1

I almost wanted to cry when i've read this: "After the initial installation I was surprised to see that Vista was indeed utilizing 16 GB of space and 700MB of RAM."

poly-phobic
06-04-2006, 10:18 PM
Just found this article on the web, dunno if it's already been posted:

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/vistab2.ars/1

I almost wanted to cry when i've read this: "After the initial installation I was surprised to see that Vista was indeed utilizing 16 GB of space and 700MB of RAM."

shit, that sux.

but 4.2 gb goes to hybernate bs so thats an easy fix.

as much as im still skeptical,
i see much more pros than cons. im really really liking what i see so far. i think if this was XP with all nthose new bells and whistles, MS OS would have crushed all competitions.

mech7
06-04-2006, 10:27 PM
Which bells and whistles? The transparent windows lol

i think if this was XP with all nthose new bells and whistles

quyeno is right for as far as I know.. open gl will suck in vista.

http://slashdot.org/articles/05/08/06/177251.shtml

So that will probably be their way of trying to keep there monopoly position.. Also 3d apps will probably suck or need to be rewritten for direct x, shutting of linux and os x.. :(

quyeno
06-05-2006, 12:02 AM
Vista is just absolutely bollocks. Not only does it take massive hard drive space to install and taking the good part of a gig of ram to run, it is pushing a 3d API that is game centric. There will be OpenGL implementation of sort but not the real deal as OpenGL will be implemented via DX, through translation if you like. Why should we worry, why not just make all the 3d apps run via DX? because DX is the biggest pile of crap for DCC, its great for games but will never be any good for DCC. Ask any Max user who has ran Max through the DX driver....grim. OpenGL was designed for DCC back in the old days and have continued to develop with DCC in mind. I believe there are still standards in OpenGL 1.2 and 1.5 which haven't even been implemented fully yet as the hardware doesn't exist (i was told this by a programmer :) I'm can't see myself using Vista unless OpenGL is fully supported and fully implementable. If you want to run your DCC apps at their fullest, i would suggest you stay clear of this pile of crap.

augustus
06-05-2006, 06:10 AM
Even though hard disc space is not expensive nowadays, 10+ gigs just for an OS is absolutely too much. :hmm:

open gl will suck in vista.

/. is not really a reliable news source. There are three ways you can get OpenGL on Vista:

-OpenGL 1.4 on top of DX9, indirectly hardware accelerated, instead of software OpenGL 1.1 you get with XP.
-OpenGL via vendor supplied drivers, fully hardware accelerated, about %10 faster than today they say, aero turns off when you run an OpenGL app.
-OpenGL via vendor supplied drivers on a shared surface, works with aero, probably a little slower than the 2nd.

mech7
06-05-2006, 08:28 AM
Yeah right you are kidding right? slashdot not a reliable news source.. anyways perhaps you believe the open gl people?

http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000001#000000

It would be technically straightforward to provide an OpenGL ICD within the full Aeroglass experience without compromising the stability or the security of the operating system. Layering OpenGL over Direct3D is a policy more than a technical decision.

parallax
06-05-2006, 09:26 AM
shit, that sux.

but 4.2 gb goes to hybernate bs so thats an easy fix.



Unfortunately, you are part of the 5% demographic that knows how to do that stuff. The majority hardly knows how to format a drive, let alone play around with services and resources.
If Vista uses to much resources out of the box, it quite simply is poorly designed.

ThirdEye
06-05-2006, 09:28 AM
Unfortunately, you are part of the 5% demographic that knows how to do that stuff. The majority hardly knows how to format a drive, let alone play around with services and resources.
If Vista uses to much resources out of the box, it quite simply is poorly designed.

Plus 16-4=12 not exactly much better. Too much resources, i'll either keep working on xp or start the linux adventure if that's confirmed.

CupOWonton
06-05-2006, 06:01 PM
There has to be a way for them to keep windows from being so bloated.

quyeno
06-05-2006, 08:40 PM
There has to be a way for them to keep windows from being so bloated.

There is......get rid of all the fancy aero glass stuff and all the other crap gimmicks, make it as streamline as possible without all the unneccessary sevices.

JWRodegher
06-05-2006, 09:17 PM
Personally, I dont really mind that much about hard disk space. If it takes 20gb and it works incredible well and stable, then go ahead. Now, all that ram just to keep the computer working seems to me like they have to be kididn. So, ok we all 3d artist or cg workers of any kind have 2ghz of ram, but what about everyone else?

Actually I even remove the bar colors in xp, the very first thing I do when I format the computer is turn winxp into the classical windows. I dont want any draws or decoration to use not a single byte of my ram. So go figure about vista then...

mech7
06-05-2006, 09:59 PM
rofl man I wish I had a gigahurz of ram :scream:

cg workers of any kind have 2ghz of ram

General Midi
06-05-2006, 10:03 PM
I'd pay $200 for an upgrade to Windows that forever removed 'Registry Rot'. I'm tired of reinstalling every 6 months.

What he said!! --^


Windows is like a baby crapping itself. What a mess! Files get installed anywhere, often you don't know where. It gets slow, cluttered, messy every 6+ months.
I'm contantly cleaning up after it....(not even my on files!)

Regards,

XP's housemaid (unpaid!)

Johny
06-05-2006, 10:25 PM
ehehe i only have 512x512 sdram, and my computer seems to have electronic clotting everywhere, f**** piece of trash *BAM BAM BAM* noes for vista.-...

DaveWortley
06-06-2006, 01:20 AM
why do us 3d peeps need it?

i hope they sort the main issue of default user file location being in some long winded file location, people have grown up using the c drive and for some reason still keep all their files on it!! the amount of re-installing and formatting people have to do it seems rediculous to even allow it!

force people to partition!

I've got my computer setup soo nicely at the moment

I have my documents setup as a partition E: drive, windows XP works soo much more effectively when u can get to ur my docs easily,
customise ur start menu so u put all your commenly used programs pinned to it, then in All Programs menu, move everything except Startup in a new folder called "other", then make a bunch of folders like 2d, 3d, video, sound, games, etc and put direct links to the applications in those folders, put them at the top of the all programs menu, trust me, you then know where everything is!!! who wants to scroll on their start menu to find things, or type every time?

I keep all the glitzy graphics turned off on XP, Vista just doesn't appeal to me, 3d Alt+Tab, so what? i know what everthing is and most of the time how many times i have to tab to get to my prog!

right there we are, my 2 cents and a bit of a bitch about vista, btw my friend is an offiical tester, he's an MVP and i think he's only got vista to install once without messing up his comptuer, every new version fails!! oh well lets hope they really test it!!!


Dave


PS for all of you who don't know there is a TGA thumbnail plugin for windows, very very useful for those of us who render to tga :)

theWOODman
06-06-2006, 02:14 AM
I'm all for streamling......

No I don't want no stupid dog to jump out and talk to me when I want to search for a file.

No I'm not easily thrilled and amused by 3D interfaces or transparent menus ( whoopi doo ).

No I don't care to upgrade my hardware, spending a gawdawful amount of money for a new processor, ram, graphics card, and hard drive to get the best perfomance for my programs and games to then upgrade to a resource hogging operating system that takes me back to where I started! You then have to upgrade all over again.

What I would consider a great advance in an operating system is one that is streamlined with a small foot print. One that only takes up the smallest amount of resources to operate. One that is stable and has a better and more thorough means to keep itself maintained instead of leaving bits and pieces of temp files, temp database files, and all other kinds of uneeded junk files cluttering up my system slowing it down and causing system instability.

Are you all with me, HECK YEAH!!
*starts marching down to Microsoft with torches*

monovich
06-06-2006, 03:39 AM
I'd pay $200 for an upgrade to Windows that forever removed 'Registry Rot'. I'm tired of reinstalling every 6 months.


that's so weird you said that. I'm reinstalling XP almost six months to the day because of registry rot. My friend told me to expect it, but I had no idea it really did happen.

Lone Deranger
06-06-2006, 08:59 AM
Totally agree... Streamline all the way. I'd love to have an OS that's tailor made for nothing but DCC. Screw games! There are games consoles for that! :)

I too got fed up with having to babysit XP. Constantly having to keep eye out for security patches. Running Adaware, norton, registery cleaners, Ghosting my HD to refresh my XP-self-soiled 6month old install, run ZoneAlarm.. ooops shit.. ZA conflicts with my 3D apps... uninstall, find another firewall.. etc... sigh... All time lost from doing what I should be doing--> 2D/3D.... Bought a Mac... end of hassle. :)



I'm all for streamling......

No I don't want no stupid dog to jump out and talk to me when I want to search for a file.

No I'm not easily thrilled and amused by 3D interfaces or transparent menus ( whoopi doo ).

No I don't care to upgrade my hardware, spending a gawdawful amount of money for a new processor, ram, graphics card, and hard drive to get the best perfomance for my programs and games to then upgrade to a resource hogging operating system that takes me back to where I started! You then have to upgrade all over again.

What I would consider a great advance in an operating system is one that is streamlined with a small foot print. One that only takes up the smallest amount of resources to operate. One that is stable and has a better and more thorough means to keep itself maintained instead of leaving bits and pieces of temp files, temp database files, and all other kinds of uneeded junk files cluttering up my system slowing it down and causing system instability.

Are you all with me, HECK YEAH!!
*starts marching down to Microsoft with torches*

poly-phobic
06-06-2006, 12:47 PM
There is......get rid of all the fancy aero glass stuff and all the other crap gimmicks, make it as streamline as possible without all the unneccessary sevices.
no gimmick-fancy aero glass stuff-other crap == win2k SP3

mech7
06-06-2006, 01:20 PM
Or XP to the bone :p

JWRodegher
06-06-2006, 01:56 PM
Lol!! come on man! dont you tell me you dont have at least 1ghz of ram! geezh :scream::p
Well, still my point was clear, right? right?

General Midi
06-06-2006, 02:36 PM
It really could look like win95 for all I care.
I'm not impressed by transparant-flying-around-3d-fancy-skinned gimmickery.

An OS that I can use for (atleast) 3 years without reinstalling, cleaning up folders everywhere, registries and other junk,... thát will rock my boat!
And I'll love it to death, together with it's hidious looking UI.

Rick Flowers
06-06-2006, 03:54 PM
vista sucks.

It should have been a step DOWN in system requirements, while stepping UP in technology and efficiency...

instead, it's just the opposite. Even if you turn the fancy UI off.

ThirdEye
06-06-2006, 03:55 PM
It really could look like win95 for all I care.
I'm not impressed by transparant-flying-around-3d-fancy-skinned gimmickery.

An OS that I can use for (atleast) 3 years without reinstalling, cleaning up folders everywhere, registries and other junk,... thát will rock my boat!
And I'll love it to death, together with it's hidious looking UI.

sounds like a good Linux description from what i've seen so far.

DonS
06-06-2006, 05:35 PM
So...with this possibility of expanded hardware requirements, it'd make sense to invest in hard drive and RAM manufacturers...and large system integrators as most folks may just opt to buy new as they have neither the know-how or inclination to perform hardware upgrades. Perhaps M$ will also do some investing to help move around some of that $35 billion cash reserve...

D.

DDS
06-06-2006, 06:36 PM
I think Vista is going to be really cool for everything except 1 thing, which happens to be my job.

sounds like a good Linux description from what i've seen so far.

Yes Linux kicks Windows asses in every single thing but I like 3dsmax and it doesn't work there. By any chance u know what other 3D apps work in Linux? never bothered to look for it, maybe moving to Linux is easier than it looks like.

Bpanting
06-06-2006, 06:58 PM
By any chance u know what other 3D apps work in Linux?

Maya :buttrock:

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