CGTalk - Windows 2000 going the way of the Dodo

Pedro

12-12-2002, 11:32 PM

That's too bad, I've been using it for a while now and it's the best MS OS I've seen.
Yesterday I had the displeasure of using a Win98 machine. YUCK! crashes and whatnot. Very nasty.

And at work I use Windows ME, which is even worse.

I honestly haven't tried XP, but I don't want to. Unless it's free, of course :D

Lunatique

12-13-2002, 05:06 AM

Ok, anyone actually used both Win 2000k Pro and Win XP Pro and actually prefers Win XP Pro?

MaDSheeP

12-13-2002, 06:04 AM

well.. i have used both 2k Pro and XP Pro.. and i honestly can't tell the difference...

nothing crashes on my setup.. everything runs smooth... ::shrug::
course i have tweeked XP to be as close to 2k as possible.. the main reason i got 2k was because i used to be a gamer.. but latley i have stopped playing games.. i spose i would have just saved the money and stuck with my 2k cd... but.. to be honest i can't tell a difference =)

Gentle Fury

12-13-2002, 06:09 AM

Originally posted by Lunatique
Ok, anyone actually used both Win 2000k Pro and Win XP Pro and actually prefers Win XP Pro?

no! no! NO! NONONONONONONONONONONONONONO!!!!!!!!!!

this is total ass!!!!! I have used XP and it SUX!!!!!! I had the joy of using an xp machine last nite......everytime the slightest thing went wrong you would get a nifty error dialog popping out of the taskbar.....and if the problem continued, instead of just leaving you alone to figure it out it KEPT POPPING UP!!!!!!!

I really cant believe they are going to restrict people from using what they want to use!!!

This is only fodder for Linux.............

its basically saying, screw what the customer wants, this is what we want you to want, and really isnt that all that matters.....oh yeah and the fact that you now have to pay AGAIN for your damn os!!!!

can they really be telling us that in 2003 Windows 2000 is already obsolete???? we actually cant even go 3 freakin years without having to go and spend thousands of dollars AGAIN for software that is not supposed to really do any more than RUN YOUR DAMN SOFTWARE!!!!!! THAT IS WHAT AN OS IS!!!!! It is NOT a damn program......nor is it a package......nor should it be treated as such!!!!!! it is an OPERATING SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!! all it should do is allow your computer to come to life and run actual software!!!!!

I dont need it to be pretty, i dont need it to come with burn software and media software and email and internet software...........all i need is a way that my computer can interperet numbers and make the ACTUAL software i am paying for WORK!!!!!!!!

ok, well this rant is done..................for now!

KiboOst

12-13-2002, 07:57 AM

Totally agree with fury, first xp sux, heavy, "mail picrosoft" popup everywhere, and the interface is good for my grand father : you lost enormeous place for WORK !! Indeed an OS is an O S !! It should be as light as possible, without all these fancy tools that we need to deinstall immediately after installing OS. Even 2k haven't custom install anymore.... And we still have to install tools such as acdsee, picaview, renamer, etc etc etc so fo it light, don't waste screen place (I still can't understand why we have always a blue EMPTY barre on top of each software just fir its name !!!) and lets runnings how soft !

Kib

bentllama

12-13-2002, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Lunatique
Ok, anyone actually used both Win 2000k Pro and Win XP Pro and actually prefers Win XP Pro?

I prefer XP Pro.

Joril

12-13-2002, 10:08 AM

Grmble

I'm actually not to keen on XP (and the candy-gui-thing is a waste of HD) either, it chrashes my machine time and time again, resulting in a total reinstall every week.
Now with 2k I haven't had a single problem...

arvid

12-13-2002, 11:56 AM

i ran xp for a while, but switched back to w2k when i did a complete reinstall a couple of months ago, i enjoyed some aspects of xp, it has support for a lot of new fancy things, but at the end of the day w2k contains less crap which is more resources for me.. used to be the same thing with nt4 Vs w2k so i'll probably go back to xp sooner or later, then the next win and the next... bahh. i hope someone makes a decent linux distro in the near future, and some apps for fux sake! :annoyed:

BeeVee

12-13-2002, 12:13 PM

Apart from better support for USB there doesn't seem to be anything in XP for me, plus if I was going to spend the money on the computer, I'd rather get a better graphics card!

B

Knut

12-13-2002, 01:05 PM

I use WinXP Pro at home=Smooth.
I use Win2k at Work=Crashes an reboots several times a day on our Dell530 systems.

:annoyed:

Joril

12-13-2002, 02:20 PM

Well, atleast there's some humor in all this.

http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=443&p=10

wmendez

12-13-2002, 04:18 PM

Now that is funny.

I still Run W2k becuase the Video Toaster 2 does not run on XP. Lots of people still prefer W2k. I also run Red Hat 7.3

Wiro

12-13-2002, 06:06 PM

I prefer Win XP actually. Boots up hellishly quick, if I screw up some driver install its easy to get it back to old status, after crashes I actually get error messages I understand (more than W2K at least). In W2K I'd get NTLDR is missing during bootups after which I'd have to reinstall the OS, with XP I still get a similar message sometimes but I can now get the machine running again.
There are lots of small things that make me like XP more than W2K.

Of course I turned off all the fancy buttons and fades and put the GUI back to W2K look

Wiro

BlueWater

12-13-2002, 07:05 PM

This is why I don't use XP

http://www.arachnoid.com/boycott/index.html

2000 for meeee.

Array

12-13-2002, 07:22 PM

bluewater- lol, yeah I once wrote a 12 page paper detailing how microsoft tramples the rights of consumers. Ironically enough though, I run winXP PRO as I received a legitimate copy when attending a .NET seminar. :shrug:

wgreenlee1

12-13-2002, 11:03 PM

....................oh the madness of it all.

UrbanFuturistic

12-13-2002, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by Gentle Fury
This is only fodder for Linux.............MWUAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!!

Hehe, with GNU/Linux getting better all the time and Microshaft getting ever heavier handed with the licensing I see critical mass approaching sometime 2005 :applause:

regards, Paul

Gentle Fury

12-14-2002, 04:36 AM

Originally posted by BlueWater
This is why I don't use XP

http://www.arachnoid.com/boycott/index.html

2000 for meeee.

wow, that is incredible. I wasnt aware of the whole activation scam they are pulling!!!!

i was NT4 all the way, then finally started using win2k last year (as it was basically NT5) and when i heard about the automatic trojan that was included in good ole XP i avoided it like the plague!!!

as i said before, 2000 is less then 4 years old! No need to update yet.......(how old is NT4???? and still being used??) But to require an activation code for an OS????????? that is insane!!! I can understand having to get in touch with AW whenever you have to install Maya, since it is a very expensive app and you use it to make money......but an OPERATING SYSTEM????????

As i said before, i would be perfectly happy if i could run all the software i need from a command line interface! My os doesnt mean crap to me!!! And the fact that Microshaft is treating its operating system like it is a real productive piece of software IS in fact a CRIME!!!

I make no money off of windows!!!! I could use Linux (if freakin adobe would get off their asses) for free and be just as productive and make just as much money!!!!

I cant wait till someone FINALLY makes a linux distro that is fully windows AND mac compatible and gives it away FOR FREE and puts both of those money hungry companies out of the OS business!!!!!!

GNU FOREVER!!!!!

wmendez

12-14-2002, 05:13 AM

That's just the begining, MS Palladium will restrict what you can and can't install or run.

BiTMAP

12-14-2002, 06:11 AM

last post is untrue, and get XP Pro Select. I don't have to activate ANYTHING and i'm on XP home, never had it even do a thing about activation.

Jhonus

12-14-2002, 09:30 AM

I used XP for about 6months and 2K for a year...

I'd have to say that now that I'm back on 2K i actually miss XP. I can't figure out why.

In terms of practical day to day usage, XP and 2K are the same for me. (GUI & Stability)

MonkeyNinja

12-14-2002, 11:41 PM

I dualboot win and linux.

For win I use a copy of XP pro and its rock solid (after alot of monkey-tweaking) its not that hard to get XP to the point that it behaves like win2k (gotta turn off a shitload of services)

For Linux I use Debian but im thinking about giving Suse a go because I think im not tech sawwy enaugh to use Debian properly as a workstation, for a server I still use Debian though.

If anyone is interested in dualbooting I recomend this setup:

1. partition your drive into 4 partitions: win(minimum 1gb) linuxRoot(minimum 1gb) linux swap(same as your RAM amount) and lastly a large Fat32 partition for all the work. (note: I recomend more than 1gig per os if you can spare)

2. install windows of choice on 1st partition and complete basic setup of it.

3. install a Linux Distro of choice onto partition nr2, during the setup it will configure a program called LILO wich will control wich OS you boot into at startup.

4. if the setup didnt do this for you then you need to mount the fat32 partition so you can share your work between the 2 os'es GoodLuck & HaveFun

Theres alot more to this after these steps but im not bored enough to go into more detail :P

UrbanFuturistic

12-15-2002, 12:16 AM

100Mb for / (root directory)
1Gb for /etc (configuration)
>=5Gb for /usr (binaries)
a sizeable amount for /home (user spaces)
a sizeable amount for a shared partition (or just make the windows one really big)

Altogether you can have 4 primary partitions and 4 extended.

Addiditonal: Debian is usually quite out of date as 'cutting edge' is not the concern, rock solid stability is, so it is recommended heartily for a server. SuSE is stable enough, has good installation and configuration tools and may cost you money but comes with excellent manuals and other documentation (plus SuSE YOU, the equivalent of Windows Update). Get the Professional version, it's worth it.

Asides from this, a lot of distro's now give you the choice of either LILO or GRUB as your boot manager, GRUB is seen to be more powerful but I've not really looked into this.

regards, Paul

MonkeyNinja

12-15-2002, 12:26 AM

odubtaig: theres no real reason to spilt the partitions up so much for a workstation, a root and swap will do.

I personally like LILO because I know how to configure it, GRUB i dont know :P

KayosIII

12-15-2002, 12:37 AM

I have heard reports that The EULA for XP service pack 1 and 2K service pack 3 gives MS the right to remove files from your computer.... Can anybody confirm.

It looks like Win2k SP2 might be the last ms operating system to be installed on my system....

PS I got NLE working on my mandrake system in the last couple of days and although Its not yet production ready Linux video is starting to rock....

UrbanFuturistic

12-15-2002, 12:48 AM

It's not absolutely necessary to have so many partitions but damn can it be useful, especially if you're spreading systems across two hard drives (going for 148Gb here :)). Asides from anything else, if one partition buys the farm, you can still mount all the others from a rescue disk.
Kayos, what do you mean by NLE? Which software? I wanna know, I wanna know :bounce: :p

future14

12-15-2002, 01:46 AM

Originally posted by Krugar
I used XP for about 6months and 2K for a year...

I'd have to say that now that I'm back on 2K i actually miss XP. I can't figure out why.

In terms of practical day to day usage, XP and 2K are the same for me. (GUI & Stability)

i agree with Krugar, but i will prefer win XP PRO when time for relax, but perfer win 2K PRO when working on, XP really ate up lot of memory and space when doing 3D stuff compare to win 2K, when using MAYA on win 2K, smooth like hell!!!

______________________________________________
-disconnectedFUTURE-

My living toon................ (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27603)

wmendez

12-15-2002, 02:56 PM

Kayos,

Are you using Cinelerra? I've tried capturing some video off my firewire but it always seems to crash. Other than that it seems well for edtiing.

UrbanFuturistic

12-15-2002, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by wmendez
Kayos,
Are you using Cinelerra? I've tried capturing some video off my firewire but it always seems to crash. Other than that it seems well for edtiing. That'll be the 'Experimental' tag on FireWire support in the kernel :p

Another reason to have a 100Mb root partition: when your dodgy hardware locks up your system (hardware lock, it's worse in Windows, believe me) and you have to press reset there's less root partition to check for errors.

The sooner I hit my deadlines, the sooner I can rearrange my partition setup :wise:

regards, Paul

Clanger

12-16-2002, 11:17 PM

What's the difference between XP home and XP Pro? Is it just network stuff?

UrbanFuturistic

12-16-2002, 11:44 PM

Network stuff, the ability to use more processors (home can use one, pro can use two), IIS, more advanced administrator tools, it's just more powerful.... I'm just gonna stick with GNU/Linux for now though.

regards, Paul

Clanger

12-16-2002, 11:59 PM

odubtaig:

Ah, I see. Thanks for the quick reply

Gentle Fury

12-17-2002, 04:42 AM

how about XP Coorporate? Is it the same as Pro?

UrbanFuturistic

12-17-2002, 11:33 AM

Not sure about corporate. I think that might be the Pro version for companies where the product activation crap's removed (so they don't have to go 'round (re)activating hundreds of machines all the time).

regards, Paul

KayosIII

12-17-2002, 11:51 AM

Non Linear Editing == Computer based video...

I just got Cinelerra working for PAL (firewire capture used to work for NTSC but not PAL).... There are details on the forums in the Cinelerra Sourceforge page. Should be out in the next release for the compiling impared out there.

I am editing a video of my cousins wedding....

eddy-3ddy

12-19-2002, 02:41 PM

hmm, very interesting what everybody uses for running there programs. It's a pitty that 3dsmax isn't running at linux or whatever. Only windows.

Oke, I have to deal with that, I used Xp for testing, then after that a did go back to win2k. My first regard when I did go back was, all the nice features for images viewing, nice icons (not the playground colors GUI) readable text etc. My video driver was in the begin crap (ATI Radeon 8500), then ATI came with a new video driver and it runs, not quiet good, but it runs. OpenGL is begin with a problem, but DirectX runs. Why don't ask me.

I worked with Win2k for 2 years. Never had a big problem with it. XP did give me problems. Oke, I solved them, it was just waiting for new drivers.

Oke, I go now with XP, tomorrow is just not clear yet. XP has nice features for my private network and running server. As me, not have the understanding of all that, can make easy something to work.

It's working, oke I have not all stuff under control.

It's time for microsoft to release a product that runs without bugs. Not make a new OS woth new bugs. I learned, finish stuff, then you getting somewhere. And still, why should I buy stuff that don't work right. I don't buy a car that doesn't run.

Munson

12-19-2002, 03:15 PM

I wouldn`t use XP because of the activation stuff, its just too big brother for my liking, if I had to use it I would fix it first, if you know what I mean ;)

flamedevil

12-19-2002, 10:34 PM

KayosIII: Service Pack 3 doesn't let you to remove microsoft files, their little tools just HIDE the files ! This is inadmissible.

I'm running on w2k since 2 years, i never had problem, this OS seems to be the most powerful and stable of microsoft.
I don't want to try winXP, there is too much problem with security, stability...

"Microsoft holds you and your rights in contempt, and they want total control over your computer — and your life. They expect you to take this lying down. Please — don't live up to their expectations."

That is why I ask you to:

GO FOR LINUX.

If windows 2000 is really going the way of the dodo i think i will leave microsoft products for a debian 3 or redhat...

KayosIII

12-19-2002, 11:18 PM

Ok it is good news about SP3.... I will still check out the EULA before I install.

Meanwhile I only really use W2k for Vector Illustration (flash3/Expression2) and the odd game these days...

UrbanFuturistic

12-20-2002, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by flamedevil
If windows 2000 is really going the way of the dodo i think i will leave microsoft products for a debian 3 or redhat... SuSE SuSE SuSE SuSE SuSE!!!

As for Max, the current versions are far too tied in with the Win32 API to make porting to other OSs a possibility but I believe R6 is going to be rewritten from the ground up so... you never know.

regards, Paul

RGFrog

12-22-2002, 06:20 AM

With MS treating its customers like automatic income, I'd say its a good time for Apple to get off their ass and release OS:X for the PC platform.

I would be far more happy with a Unix core and Maya/Lightwave.

Granted, Linux is fun and cool, but the only real competition right now is from Apple. They're the only other OS developer with support from major software developers. Sadly, Linux will remain an alt. OS forever if major developers don't start porting their app.s soon!

eddy-3ddy

12-22-2002, 11:59 AM

There is a process that OSX will be for PC. Afterall Darwin (kernel off OSX) is allready for windows. It's open source, so...

http://www.opensource.apple.com/projects/darwin/6.0/release.html

See ya

wmendez

12-23-2002, 02:38 AM

Kayos or odubtaig. Are you getting good OGL Performance on Nix? Im using Nvidia's 4149 glx drivers and XSI's display is not as quick as my Win install. It renders faster which is ok but Im trying to tweak sort of like RivaTune. NVclock for nix does not do the job. Im using RH 7.3.

And here's my XP boot screen so that I don't forget about nix ;)

http://members.rogers.com/lmendez/xpboot.jpg

SheepFactory

12-23-2002, 04:29 AM

so which software do you use will?

:)

wmendez

12-23-2002, 04:38 AM

Crystal Graphics Topas :p

KayosIII

12-23-2002, 05:25 AM

Originally posted by wmendez
Kayos or odubtaig. Are you getting good OGL Performance on Nix? Im using Nvidia's 4149 glx drivers and XSI's display is not as quick as my Win install. It renders faster which is ok but Im trying to tweak sort of like RivaTune. NVclock for nix does not do the job. Im using RH 7.3.

Firstly check with the XSI mob... They might be able to help you with tuning the app... (They might be able to inform you of which version of the NVIDIA drivers work best).

If at all possible upgrade to Redhat 8 (check with your app vendor before doing this)....
It is compiled with a newer version of GCC that produces much faster code.... If XSI depends apon any open source components you can recompile these from source with processor specific ehancements (I doubt this will be possible -- but recompiling SDL with Athlon specific enhancements did wonders for wings3d).

I don't know of any rivatune like programs for linux (or softquadro for that matter) if anybody else knows I would be very interested.

wmendez

12-23-2002, 05:39 AM

RH 8.0 is not an option SPM manager does not work in it. I have the components mentioned on Soft's requirment page mind you everything works fine but I want to tweak a bit.

here's the link to NVclock

http://www.evil3d.net/products/nvclock/

KayosIII

12-23-2002, 05:40 AM

Originally posted by RGFrog
With MS treating its customers like automatic income, I'd say its a good time for Apple to get off their ass and release OS:X for the PC platform.

I would be far more happy with a Unix core and Maya/Lightwave.

Granted, Linux is fun and cool, but the only real competition right now is from Apple. They're the only other OS developer with support from major software developers. Sadly, Linux will remain an alt. OS forever if major developers don't start porting their app.s soon!

Thats funny I cosider SideFX, Alias:Wavefront and the XSI mob to be major software developers.... The truth is that you will see companies porting from unix->linux before you see people porting from windows->linux.
Hopefully the unix will be enough to break the chicken/egg problem.

KayosIII

12-23-2002, 05:53 AM

Cool I tried it and it seams to work.... I wasn't game to push it too far...
Are you running the application as root --
eg. (in terminal)

$> su
$> [root password]
#> nvclock_qt

since it needs to access hardware in a way that a normal user shouldn't be able to access you will need to do it this way.

wmendez

12-23-2002, 06:01 AM

Linux on a every home user's PC is a far off but it's already used heavly in the studios

All the big studios that were or still use SGI/ IRIX have been porting thier tools to Linux much easier that if they were to porting to windows. Which is what D2 has done with NUKE.

KayosIII

12-23-2002, 10:25 AM

I did some research on the net.... with regards to the nvidia stuff. (I also changed those two resistors so my geforce 2 Pro is now a quadro2 pro)...
There are a couple of options that can be changed in /etc/modules.conf and a whole heap documented in /usr/share/doc/NVIDIA_GLX/README
for X Windows.

wmendez

12-23-2002, 01:49 PM

Thanks! Will look into that..:thumbsup:

dark_lotus

12-24-2002, 12:16 PM

"Where do we want you to go today?"

I prefer XP pro.

j3ro3n

12-24-2002, 04:25 PM

I think XP is really great for some home use, but if you wanna run some high-end software with it, it really sux! I have an 24h experience with XP, burnin' a cd and browsing the internet is allright, but when it comes to running some real apps (3ds - AE) it's a instable as a toothpick in a pile of doggy-d00...

I really prefer 2k. Really stable, and you don't have to watch the "made for 12-year old's"-GUI...

flamedevil

12-25-2002, 12:03 AM

I really prefer 2k. Really stable, and you don't have to watch the "made for 12-year old's"-GUI...

Yes, the kind of fisherprice style :rolleyes:

wmendez

12-25-2002, 01:20 AM

You can always change it
www.wincustomize.com :)

Though I like the way I can Customize Linux alot more.

wmendez

12-25-2002, 05:17 AM

kayos,

Here is another util, DL it now.

http://yanc.sourceforge.net/index-en.html

stoopiddonky

12-27-2002, 05:16 PM

Linux all the way :D

aazimkhan

12-27-2002, 06:22 PM

I run my 3d apps on XP home. All runs smooth and good. Rarely do i see crashes.

I like xp coz its all automated, no worries about installation or drivers etc. I used to work on 2000 but i like xp too....xp just eats up a little more compurer resources...

UrbanFuturistic

01-02-2003, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by wmendez
Kayos or odubtaig. Are you getting good OGL Performance on Nix? Depends on how you configure your system. Some GNU/Linux installs configure stuff like apache and other mostly unneccesary software to run at boot time, also I don't use processor hogs like Gnome or KDE (if you see most pro environments they're usually running a pretty basic operating environment) so I get a performance boost of about 130% depending.

regards, Paul

wmendez

01-02-2003, 07:59 PM

Interesting, I don't have a problem with the app itself being slugish as it runs great it's just the display performance that Im being picky about. Im not running apache but am running KDE would you recommend Enlightment,ICEWM or Fluexbox?

Thanks!

UrbanFuturistic

01-03-2003, 10:53 AM

Personally, I just use the Gnome panel (handily named panel), Sawfish (window manager), and Acidlaunch. They suck up next to nothing of my resources. Otherwise, I'm not surprised you're not noticing any problems with the interface performance as this is just basic 2D monkeywork a bog standard Pentium 100 could easily do. Despite the advent of high performance graphics cards, they don't take anywhere near as much of the dog work as most people would like in 3D modelling as they do in games. This is mainly for the reason that 3D modelling is so incredibly hands on compared to games where all action and deformation can be defined with bones and the GPU takes most of the T&L off the CPU.

The basic upshot is that the less workload you put on your CPU in terms of unneccesary junk, bells or whistles the faster your display will be when modelling.

regards, Paul

wmendez

01-03-2003, 04:54 PM

Nahh performance with interface is great! Running Dual 1.8 Xeons using Hyperthreading and 512mb ECC rambus mem.

Like I mentioned im just being picky about refresh rates while moving scene objects around, something that would perform at 10fps while moving in XP or 2K would take 2 or 4 fps in Nix.

Thanks Again for you assistance:thumbsup:

Nummos

01-03-2003, 06:01 PM

:thumbsup:
I liked the orange hat.
I don't preffer Windows 2000.
XP Pro All the way.:buttrock:

UrbanFuturistic

01-03-2003, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by wmendez
Like I mentioned im just being picky about refresh rates while moving scene objects around, something that would perform at 10fps while moving in XP or 2K would take 2 or 4 fps in Nix. That's what I was referring to. The interface of the software takes up almost nil processor time while the operating environment (KDE/Gnome/whatever) may take up a shedload more than really necessary with all bells and whistles you don't really need. Yeah it's fast, yeah it's slick, yeah it's utilising 25% of your processor time :p Right now I'm averaging 4% at idle.

Another thought occurs, are you a) running an SMP kernel and b) running a kernel optimised for your processors (as even the latest kernels are only optimised for basic Pentium processors and some are still only optimised for an i386 processor)? If not, this would go some way to explaining the lag.

regards, Paul