Possible switch to Cinema

[panadar]

I’m looking to get into another 3D package. While I really like the rendering capabilities of my current package, the character animation portion is a little weak. I’m a one man studio. So, this is basically what I’m looking for in my next package.



Excellent rendering capabilities. I’m looking to produce dvds. Also, photorealism is needed in some cases as I need to composite my objects or animations with photographs or background video shots. (My current app is great for this w/o making me feel like I’m pushing myself or the app.
Great space scenes.
Very good character animation abilities, yet not difficult to learn or use. This is for mostly bi-pedal characters, but I will be using it for quad-legged, and even multi-legged creatures like insects. Also, I need to do animation for mecha.
Excellent toon rendering.
Excellent cloth, particles, hair, other dynamics.
Crowd simulation. Even if on a somewhat limited basis.
SSS rendering.
As I use Modo for modeling, this capability is not needed.
Unlimited rendering nodes.
Ability to create an animation without having to switch between different 3d animation packages.
I’ve looked at the website. I’m pretty impressed with Cinema 4 so far. I’m pretty close to investing the time to use the demo. But, before I do, I have a couple of questions about this program. This is really more for people who have used another program and have changed to this program or are currently changing to this program.


One, what made you change programs?
Two, what do you find different in Cinema 4 from the program you changed from?(Please, no bashing of the other program)
Where can I get training tapes & books to ease my transition into this program?
Is user base growing significantly? I’m just trying to get a rough comparison between this app and others like Lightwave, Softimage, and Maya.
Finally, are there any schools on the east coast that teach Cinema?
Again, I’m not looking for a flame war because I personally think all these apps are very good. Great work has been done using all the major apps like Maya, Softimage, 3D Studio Max, and Lightwave. I’m just trying to find the next which may be the best fit for me. Thanks for answering my questions.

[Per-Anders]

well, unfortuantely looking at your list you're going to be stuck one way or another with all the apps. not one really covers them all.

the three options you have for unlimited render nodes would be C4D, Lightwave and 3D Max, however none of those are really excellent for character animation (Max would be the best of that bunch though), for CA you'd want XSI or Maya.

All of them can do excellent space scenes.

Cinema has the best Toon rendering capabilities. Maya would be my secnod place on this.

C4D and Max have the best particles, XSI & Maya have the best cloth in the Syflex Plugin (comes as standard in XSI Advanced, and I think Essentials). XSI has the best normal dynamics. Personally I think the HAIR module in C4D is unsurpaesed, though Ornatrix plugin for Max looks pretty good too.

Crowd simulation can be achieved i all of these apps via particles. Maya has some dedicated crowd sim plugins, and XSI Advanced I believe comes with Behavious, which is a specific Crowd Sim software.

All of them can render subdivision surfaces, however only REYES render engines will render them as full infinitely smooth subdivision surfaces. None of these apps come with that capability out of the box, youw ill have to get a Renderman compliant engine for that.

I'm not sure I follow your last request, most apps support the FBX format that allows the transfer of animation, however it all depends what apps. C4D has excellent FBX import and export, however for isntance Maya's is rather poor (considering discreet own motionbuilder that's not so good).

--------------------

Onto your other questions.

I switched form lightwave

1) I found I could do things a lot faster in C4D (though at first I didn't believe it itll i set down to simde by side tasks).

2) Workflow, environment, Cinema is very fluid interface wise, you can customise it however you want. It has great customer service and support. It's very standardised to the OS, it's not very idiosyncratic at all, which is good, because it behaves as you'd expect. It's also very very stable. It's a more subtly powerful app, you use it and it does what you want, you don't notice you're getting mroe in depth or doing more complex things because theyr'e so easy.

3) Maxons website a number of users websites, Janine & Mash have training with their 3dfluff training DVD's and there are some others out there. It also comes with tutorial manuals.

4) No idea, the last time anything was published on this C4D was the third most popular high end 3d app (max at number 1 of course, can't remember which was 2 either lw or maya). It seems like there's a steady stream of new users visiting these forums. I'd say it's growing in popularity.

5) No idea.

[panadar]

Thank you so very much for answering my questions. Currently, I use Lightwave. I think you're really the type of person I wanted to get feedback from. Do you think that the character animation tools in Cinema are better than in Lightwave? I'm asking on the basis that I plan on getting the top of the line bundle that Maxon offers.

[Per-Anders]

Well, yes there's no doubt it's much nicer/better in Cinema as far as I'm concerned. However that's really not saying much as lightwaves CA was never a strong point.

If you do plan on using C4D for character animation then I would recommend looking into Cactus Dan's excellent range of rigging and animating plugins and also my Powerslider plugin, or into getting Messiah or Motionbuilder.

The reason is simply that whilst C4D's CA toolset may be better than Lightwaves, it's still in all honesty not that good.

[mustardseed]

Hi Per,

Sorry to waste bandwidth, but I just felt compelled to say that I really appreciate how you are able to take a truly objective stand wrt to Cinema4D vs the rest.

Definitely won't get any gushy fanboy responses from you. :)

andrew

[RorrKonn]

C4D has a LW UI to help those changing over.

the only app's that SubPatch a Tri our LW,XSI
so Meshes with alot of Tri's will not work in any of the other app's.

http://www.atomic-3d.com/RK_Tutorial/RK_T_Mix_Sub-D_Tri-Quad.htm (http://www.atomic-3d.com/RK_Tutorial/RK_T_Mix_Sub-D_Tri-Quad.htm)

the best advice is always do all the DEMOS n learn all the app's then u no what what.
but I know who has time to do all the demos n learn all the app's ?

So real quick my 2 cents worth

LW,C4D,Max,Unlimited,Advanced.
will all pretty much do the same thing.
of course some app's with do some things a little better then others.
n I like all the app's there all killer.
would not be disappointed with any of the app's.

I get bored easy so I play with deferent app's.

C4D is easy to use n since they got cloth n hair they have a complete app.
there UI is the most customizable alot to be said for user friendly.

RorrKonn
http://www.atomic-3d.com (http://www.atomic-3d.com)
TS 6, LW 7, C4D 9, zBrush 2.

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