PDA

View Full Version : new to rigging, got some questions


dmxdxl
02-13-2006, 02:07 AM
http://mars.walagata.com/w/dmxdxl/need_to_rig.jpg

gonna rig him, but dunno quite how to do that, this being my first character ever, (learned how to uv and zbrush with this guy), so anyone point me in the right direction for riggin him up? I would like to have mucle deformations when he moves, and have the skin around his maw, wobble appropreatly when he moves, and have a RIG made on him, rather than all just bones....

eek
02-13-2006, 02:18 AM
ok

well the general way of rigging is, add the bones, skin the character, set up the rig, add the puppets. For muscles in max you could use muscle bones, or a plugin like ACT. For jiggle you could use script controllers, spring controllers ,a script. Also you have quite a high res mesh, so its gunna take a while for nice skinning. All rigs are different the first thing to ask yourself is 'what do you want this character to do' then work from there. Come up with a list, like:

it needs to stretch
it needs to roll on its heel
it needs to jiggle
it needs to break its joints
it needs to be able to rotate 180 degrees

etc etc, work from a set of constraints for this character it make rigging a lot easier. Then we can go from there.

eek

dmxdxl
02-13-2006, 02:41 AM
well, I want to have the muscles in his leg bulge when he exerts them, or lowers his body to the ground say, and I want the skin in the mouth to jiggle like I said, and the creature doesnt really have a neck so head movement will be at minimum, but I want the jaws in the maw to move to open the mouth and close it....I got all the bones in place, and all the teeth in the mouth move the skin they are surrounded by, as do the toes, same witht he eyes (they move the skin round it a LIL bit), but how do I work in the flappy mouth skin?

eek
02-13-2006, 07:50 AM
but how do I work in the flappy mouth skin?- good use of skinning and bone placement, you may need extra bones for jiggle areas. Bones arent just used for the skeleton, they can simulate pretty much everything if used correctly.

Your gunna need some clever rigging for this thing to work, especially with the predator style jaw. What happen when the mouth closes and opens?

eek

dmxdxl
02-13-2006, 11:16 PM
What happen when the mouth closes and opens?

eek

I am unsure of what u mean by that...so if this answer is way off base, I'm sorry, but the skin should fold and conform to whatever it is grabbin onto and eating, so the skin must have real elatiscity, almost like cloth, being trolled around by the three predominant jaws, it's a food bag in essence..when it is closed around NO object, the skin just folds out appropriatly, like flaps, because these creatures hang from ceilings byt their tail, and drop onto their prey..like the tongues in hl and hl2 almost, except mobiel...

eek
02-13-2006, 11:51 PM
ok,

well your'll definately need to controlles between the three parts of the mouth so you can stretch it , fold it etc etc, like a shimmer on a dragons wing. And your probably wanna drive these automatically and have manual control.

eek

dmxdxl
02-13-2006, 11:59 PM
so how do I go about doin that?, I got the bones for the jaw in there correctly...

eek
02-14-2006, 01:59 AM
Well you could make a bone for each main jaw part (with a little nub bone), then positionally constrain a point between each nub bone. Points can be bones infact anything can be pretty much a bone. Then give the point a list_controller and spring to give it jiggle. For it to fold in you may need some expressions, script_controllers, reactor maybe. How much rigging do you know?


eek

dmxdxl
02-14-2006, 08:49 PM
like I said I am new to rigging, I got all the bones setup in my character in the SKIN modifier, but the skin on the side of the mouth is still lookin UGLY...

dmxdxl
02-15-2006, 09:04 AM
yo man, I was wonderin if u could make a diagrahm, that would help immensly, cuz I know how to do all that, but a diagrahm would just make it aparent how I should go bout settin it up...I think I might know but i would like to see what u mean visually, if possible thnx..

eek
02-15-2006, 09:31 AM
ok (hehe my 3rd diaxplantion) ok this is just an idea - the best thing for you is to get some of the rigging tutorials under your belt first anyway..http://www.eekstudios.com/cgtalk/poscon.jpg

this is really basic - i really need some more time to think about this. Using just this method, you may get some flipping etc.

eek

dmxdxl
02-15-2006, 09:42 PM
k i got it and the skin jiggle and all that now, wicked man thnx, but why did u say to put the jiggle on the NUB bone as well (seeing how the tip of the mandables are SOLID bone)...but in any case thnx and I got another question for ya haha...


for the TAIL, what kinda setup do I need?, hi solver and hd sover just DONT work...what to DO what to DO..?

eek
02-16-2006, 12:08 AM
Um i didnt, i said the point constrained between the nub bones, get a spring controller in the avalible slot.

For the tail i have an fk driven ik tail i use, with the HI solver. History independant so it calculated that bone alone and not the whole chain. Ive been trying to do a tutorial on it - hopefully this weekend. Its very easy to set up.

For you it depends how do you want to control it? Fk, ik? does it need to stick to things? Think about what the creature needs to be able to do.

eek

dmxdxl
02-16-2006, 12:26 AM
I am also havin troubles with the leg, I got the thigh bone with a hi solver to the shine bone, but at the bottom of the foot I cant figure out what to do, I want it so that when I lift his leg up the toes and feet curl down until they hit ground again and flatten out, make sense?

eek
02-16-2006, 08:27 AM
Ok,

Run an ik chain from the upper leg to the foot bone. Make a new point (align it to world), then align it to the foot bone pivot. Constrain the Ik handles postion to this point and the foot bones rotation to the point with an orientation constrain. Keep relative on.

This is very very simple, and you can go much more complicated like using a reverse foot - but heres a start. Now ik chains have whats called a swivel angle/pole vector basically there orientation.

If you open up the motion panel, theres a swivel angle option and to 'pick' a target for it to look at.

eek

dmxdxl
02-16-2006, 08:57 PM
ok got it thnx man, that is wicked, but my last 2 questions is the tail setup and mucle poppin, (like when he puts his leg down his calf bulges)

Robert Diaz
02-16-2006, 09:09 PM
Once again eek flys in to the rescue. Thanks eek for sharing. I'll be watching this thread closely. Always new stuff to learn.

Interesting character dmxdxl. Can't wait to see it finished. Good luck.

-Rob

eek
02-17-2006, 07:06 AM
ok you lot,

Im gunna this weekend post a bunch of diagrams explaining rigging for you. So you want muscle bones, tail rigging, possibly reverse foot? curling fingers?, spine setups? I'll keep it light to start ok? on wards and upwards ok muscle bones:


http://www.eekstudios.com/cgtalk/learn/musclebones.jpg

1. make a bone with a nub at the end
2. make two points: one at the main bones pivot, one at the nubs pivot
3. constrain the nub positionally to the point at its pivot
4. give the main bone a look at constraint, with the nub point being its target
5. set the upnode (in the look at dialog) to the point at the main bones pivot not the nub point set the type to 'axis alignment'
6. parent the main bone to the point at its pivot
7. in the main bone options uncheck 'freeze length'

You can uncheck scale too if you want. Now you can parent the points to you leg as in the pic.

eek

dmxdxl
02-18-2006, 11:02 PM
6. parent the main bone to the point at its pivot
7. in the main bone options uncheck 'freeze length'

You can uncheck scale too if you want. Now you can parent the points to you leg as in the pic.

eek

just got tiem to try this, and cant figure out what u mean by this, looked in modify column and nothin, looked in IK tabs and nothin, motion tab and nothin right clicked and went to properties and nothin, dunno what u meant with that step...Using max 8 here...with sp1

eek
02-18-2006, 11:28 PM
character > bone tools

Theres some options at the bottom. Have your bone selected.

eek

dmxdxl
02-19-2006, 01:50 AM
wicked man that is just wicked, thnx again for all of this, this is GOLD!!.....so now about the tail, how would I go about setin that up, and another question is can I make on bone affect another bone SLIGHTLY, (ie, I want the jaw bones to affect the wobbly skin points to a DEGREE, no 100%) if that makes sense that would wicked man thnx...

eek
02-19-2006, 01:56 AM
Ok onwards,

Tail rigging - this is a setup i did at my last place for a rat. Basically the problem was was that i needed the tail to rest on the floor but still controll the sway,overlap in an fk method. Theres tons of ways to rig a tail but personally either fk or spline ik is the best method. Mine uses the fk method, but that drives an ik chain system.

http://www.eekstudios.com/cgtalk/learn/tail.jpg

eek

dmxdxl
02-19-2006, 10:56 PM
thnx man, much appreciated!!!

dmxdxl
02-21-2006, 08:13 PM
Thnx again man, ur helping me out immensly, I appreciate it big time.I want the jaw bones to affect the wobbly skin points to a DEGREE, no 100% is that possible, like I want the skin attaching the jaws to STRETCH......


I would need each jaw BONE to affect the two surrounding skin wobble points by 50%...is that possible or even clear?

dmxdxl
02-22-2006, 11:51 PM
I have an idea but I dont know if it's possible, but here goes;

I want to have it so that when I move the top jaw bone down a blend shape for the skin KICKS in based on how far I rotate the bone, like it's a controller for it, and I want that for each direction that bone rotates in, and for each of the jaw bones...would that be possible?..

eek
02-23-2006, 02:43 AM
sorry for the delay - busy at work. Ill edit this tonight with some help.


eek

dmxdxl
02-23-2006, 04:35 AM
cant wait man wicked thnx again.

zeme
02-23-2006, 11:03 AM
A bit of offtopic.
Just wanted to say that I admire your work EEK, giving back your ideas, making these small tutorials.
You should make few small rigging tuts, that would be awesome.

Thank you.

PEN
02-24-2006, 01:40 PM
Not to take away from what Eek has done for you here but all this is covered in my DVD set. It might be worth having a look at if you are interested in taking it all one step further.

eek
02-27-2006, 06:15 AM
Ok back on track,

"Thnx again man, ur helping me out immensly, I appreciate it big time.I want the jaw bones to affect the wobbly skin points to a DEGREE, no 100% is that possible, like I want the skin attaching the jaws to STRETCH......


I would need each jaw BONE to affect the two surrounding skin wobble points by 50%...is that possible or even clear?"

Unless your using some skin deformation, jitter/jiggle tool such as ACT/hercules this is not possible.However you can fake this by parenting or constraining points/bones/etc onto the jaw bones and giving them a spring controller on there position.

"I have an idea but I dont know if it's possible, but here goes;

I want to have it so that when I move the top jaw bone down a blend shape for the skin KICKS in based on how far I rotate the bone, like it's a controller for it, and I want that for each direction that bone rotates in, and for each of the jaw bones...would that be possible?.."

Yes this is possible, you have to build a combination fix shape as a morph target and drive its value off the rotation of the bone. This might be a problem for you however as youve skinned the mesh and morph modifiers have to go below the skin in the stack, unlike meshsmooth which always goes above unless your never changing it, on/off etc.

I can give you guys the heads up on how to build combination fix shapes its not too difficult. But its a high methodology in rigging that i dont think your ready for just yet.

Rules of Rigging:

skeleton > setup> puppets - this is basics

Skin modifier is a vertex operator, face operators such as mesh smooth generally go after. Morph modifers always generally go before, because the skin modifer transforms all verts. The morpher has a final result of serveral blend targets whethere there additive, etc etc but this final result is getting transformed by the skin.

So when you stick the morph after the skin, you transform specific verts based on the skin, in relation to the morph so things go messy.


As Paul mentioned his dvd as a great way to aproach this subject, but i recommend you get a good grounding in what controllers,ik, constraints, parenting work and how and why they work. Do lots of standardish tutorials then start playing.

joconnell
02-27-2006, 08:27 AM
Go to bed ffs ;)

eek
02-27-2006, 09:26 AM
Go to bed ffs ;)

cant sleep, mate.


Also as this thread, if you guys a stuck just yell. Im happy to help you out as much as i can.

Tughan
02-27-2006, 12:07 PM
Mr Incredible envy you my friend. :)
Bravo. :applause:

CGTalk Moderation
02-27-2006, 12:07 PM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.