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3DArtZ
02-11-2006, 06:01 PM
So, I recently had a Project making some pre-vis models for Arby's restuarant, and I decided to use EIM becuase all of the reference material was created with Adobe Illustrator lines.

I wanted to import the eps lines into EIM and just extrude and round.Well, the extrude part was easy.But the Rounding part was not. I spent 2 (non-billable) days last weekend trying to conquer that rounding problem.Eventually, I decide to just buck up and give MrsBebel(http://www.konkeptoine.com) a go at it.

So, after some installation issues which were taken care of By David Argemi, I installed the plug in.

I then imported the fact models into EI,and effortlessly rounded the edges of the models.

I just wanted to give big props! to the David and his plug in.

Thanks man!

Mike Fitz

www.3dartz.com (http://www.3dartz.com)

Vizfizz
02-11-2006, 06:07 PM
You know.. it would be really cool if Mrs Bebel could be expanded upon.. and add functions similar to the old os9 Invigorator. Direct Illustrator eps import would be divine and a lathe function would go a really long way. Add this to the vendor request list.

halfworld
02-11-2006, 06:27 PM
Oh yeah :)

Bebel sounds great, and I think I might invest in it.... I really would like it to become a mini modeller within EI - What Brian suggested, a lathe feature would be amazing.

Ian

3DArtZ
02-11-2006, 06:27 PM
I definately would gladly pay for that, esp. after the positive experience I've had with
MrsBebel, my first plugin from Konkeptoine


Mike Fitz
www.3dartz.com (http://www.3dartz.com)

Vizfizz
02-11-2006, 06:32 PM
I really, really, really miss Invigorator. (Did I say really?) It was such an incredible plug in. I used it constantly in broadcast design work. Plus it was sort of resolution independant thanks to the eps import functions. Need a higher mesh, hit the plugin, up the rez. Vector lathe was also nice.

Vizfizz
02-11-2006, 06:52 PM
Examples of an Invigorator/Lathe project done years ago.

Reuben5150
02-11-2006, 07:24 PM
I really, really, really miss Invigorator. (Did I say really?) It was such an incredible plug in. I used it constantly in broadcast design work. Plus it was sort of resolution independant thanks to the eps import functions. Need a higher mesh, hit the plugin, up the rez. Vector lathe was also nice.

What happend to it ?, i've looked at their site a few times since EI's site has a link to it under the 3rd party stuff, can't fine anything about an EI plugin :shrug:

halfworld
02-11-2006, 07:31 PM
Didn't it die with the 9/X upgrade...?

I don't think there was ever a PC version anyway (I may be wrong there though).
Ian

PS. From Zaxwerks site.... Also, it's misspelt on the Electric Image links page as Zaxweks...
- The Invigorator for ElectricImage or Maya
These Invigorators function as sophisticated procedural modelers only. The rendering, surface materials, lighting and animation are handled by their host applications. Thus you can do anything to the models that you can with any other model in the host 3D program. Animate them, Deform them, run Dynamics on them, etc.. However, you have to know how to use your host application to do these things.

As modelers they are especially geared to creating 3D graphics on a deadline. Every studio and production facility who has ever bought our Invigorator says it pays for itself. The Invigorator will remove hours of headaches and frustration; and help you to produce incredible amounts of title and logo graphics in a short amount of time.

It also gives you the ability to change the Illustrator input artwork which will update the whole model and you never have to change the texture mapping, animation keyframes or anything else. So creating multiple versions of the same animation is nothing more than switching out the original Illustrator file. Flexibility like this is required by the professional.

Vizfizz
02-11-2006, 07:55 PM
Yes..its still available in the form of the "Pro Modeler" however, the sidegrade from EI's plugin version is expensive. Like $250 for a sidegrade? A bit high I feel. Besides, I preferred the integrated solution in EI myself. I don't want a seperate application. However, Zax knew that offering plugins for the 3D industry wasn't where the money was. Any modeler can do what his program can do one way or another. He's got it right offering it to the AE and Motion communities. Smarter. Still.. Pro Animator is $695. Too much in my opinion.

No.. it wasn't available on the PC at the time because there was no PC version. ;) and yes, it died with 2.9.2...though it should still work in OS 9 with any version of EIAS.

Igors
02-11-2006, 10:11 PM
Oh yeah :)

I really would like it to become a mini modeller within EI - What Brian suggested, a lathe feature would be amazing.

Ian

Please explain what is a lathe feature and why it would be amazing

Vizfizz
02-11-2006, 10:15 PM
Because I'll know I'll need to explain myself in that last post, yes, plugins for the 3D industry is still viable...though difficult. I am here to support 3rd party vendors, not come against them.

Zax knew the motion graphics industry is AE centric. I'm sure AE out sells EI by a factor of 10 to 1. It made logical sense for him to make the move he did. However, I'm sure it was because of EI that he got off the ground and could expand his business further.

Vizfizz
02-11-2006, 10:21 PM
Please explain what is a lathe feature and why it would be amazing


Zax offered two plugins for EI users. Invigorator and Vector Lathe.

Mrs. Bebel is very similar to Invigorator, but lacks some of its key functions. I could provide you with screen shots of Invigorator in action if you'd like to see. Invigorator was used for extruding and beveling Illustrator EPS files. Wonderful implementation. It would be cool if Bebel could take invigorator even further and offer lofting.

Vector Lathe operated off the same principle, however, instead of extruding objects like Invigorator, Lathe would revolve eps curves around an axis of choice to create geometry. Great for creating symetric objects.

3DArtZ
02-11-2006, 10:57 PM
Here is a very basic example.

I would really love to see this plug in develop too!

Mike Fitz
www.3dartz.com (http://www.3dartz.com/)

Igors
02-11-2006, 11:09 PM
Hi, Brian

>>Zax offered two plugins for EI users. Invigorator and Vector Lathe. <<

We remember both

>>Mrs. Bebel is very similar to Invigorator, but lacks some of its key functions. I could provide you with screen shots of Invigorator in action if you'd like to see. Invigorator was used for extruding and beveling Illustrator EPS files. Wonderful implementation. It would be cool if Bebel could take invigorator even further and offer lofting. <<

Mrs cannot operate with EPS file(s) directly, need to import it inside EI, it's not always fast and pleasant. For all other: in our opinion the invigorator lacks most of Mrs key functions :)

Lofting: we think the normal way is to have 2 plug-ins: extruding and lofting (but not one for both). Afaik NL has a loft plug-in (not familiar with it though)

>> Vector Lathe operated off the same principle, however, instead of extruding objects like Invigorator, Lathe would revolve eps curves around an axis of choice to create geometry. Great for creating symetric objects <<

Yes, the principle is the same, but, unlike extruding, we can't see how revolving can use child objects. Without this "just revolve" looks not interested imho (too static)

Vizfizz
02-11-2006, 11:57 PM
Hey guys...

Ok.. here's the deal. EIAS no longer has a modeler. Its either purchase a 3d party modeler or use something else. When you model, the top 3 modeling calls are usually:

1. Extruding
2. Revolving
3. Lofting

If EIAS had this capability, it would go a long way until either an integrated modeler appeared in EIAS or EITG offers something else. Either way, its probably going to be a long time in coming. 3rd party modelers are just too simple a solution right now. However, some people don't want to buy or learn another modeling package and having an integrated solution within EIAS is simply more productive. Less jumping between packages.

Zax summerized that more people actually have a 2d vector illustration program in their tool box rather than multiple 3d programs. This was smart thinking. I agree that Mrs. Bebel does possess more advanced functions over Invigorator. However, if I had the two in front of me to generate a quick logo, I'd use Invigorator every time. Why? Because of its EPS / vector input and its abilty to up rez the resulting model at any time. Likewise, a revolve and lofting tool based off of EPS curves would be so beneficial. Draw a cross section curve in Illustrator, save as EPS, bring into Bebel, and revolve around a user defined axis or extrude it, have multiple curves and loft them. Bang. Instant model. Use Bebel's other advanced tools to make the model even more interesting.

You're thinking that you need to parent child objects to Bebel as the only method of constructing an object....nope. What Bebel does now is impressive. It just lacks its logical other half. Importing curves in from the outside. Make Bebel the mini modeler it deserves to be. Let it Extrude, Revolve, and Loft bezier splines from an EPS file and I'll guarantee you'll have orders rolling in. I'll be on the top of the list to pay for an upgrade.

3DArtZ
02-12-2006, 12:03 AM
I absolutely agree, and you can put my name atop the order list.

now, this might be getting ahead of ourselves....
but what if that window in EI popped up and you could draw your
lines in that window, then wham bam thank you Konkeptione, you have your model.

Plus all the features currently in MrsBebel....

Should I put the crack pipe down?

Mike Fitz
www.3dartz.com (http://www.3dartz.com)

Vizfizz
02-12-2006, 12:05 AM
Yes.. that would be the best of all situations. If I really want advanced modeling, I'll go into Maya or Silo.

Igors
02-12-2006, 01:15 AM
Hi, Brian

>>However, if I had the two in front of me to generate a quick logo, I'd use Invigorator every time. Why? Because of its EPS / vector input and its abilty to up rez the resulting model at any time<<

There is the alternate answer for this why: because you are familiar with Invigorator and used it with success many times (we'll back to this aspect below)

>>Draw a cross section curve in Illustrator, save as EPS, bring into ..<<

But it's not a "Less jumping between packages" :hmm: As we remember, it was the "main" pretension to Invigorator in past

>>Likewise, a revolve and lofting tool based off of EPS curves would be so beneficial.<<
>>I'll guarantee you'll have orders rolling in<<

It would be really nice but let us (again) to disagree with you

Revolver: too simple. The example Mike showed tells very clear: there are no reasons to invest $ into a plug-in if it's achievable in modeler and achievable enough easy, eventual Revolver plug-in just "has no trumps" and thus has no chances to be sold

Lofting.

>>have multiple curves and loft them. Bang. Instant model.<<

For loftting a distance to "bang" is much longer. With multiply curves a result is not instant. Besides this, another one serious problem arises. Please advice what to say users of NL plug-in? That our one is much better? That they should re-invest their money in a thing that does same task? That always get a big "resistance" and we've zero enthusiasm to overcome it

Vizfizz
02-12-2006, 01:58 AM
Hey Guys...

I'm not trying to say one is superior to the other.. I'm trying to suggest that combining the powers of Bebel and Invigorator and Vector Lathe would produce a superior product. You have the ability to do so in your hands. Why would you resist?

My familiarity with Invigorator isn't my reason for choosing it over Bebel, if I was forced to choose. Invigorator wins, imho, because it can import splines from the outside quickly and very easily. I'm trying to suggest methods of reducing the EIAS problem of being an island and the fact that it has no modeling capabilities. Thankfully FBX is here..but I still think people want internal modeling capabilities within EIAS no matter how basic. Bebel could fill this need.

Its not about a plugin being too "simple", but rather its about convience to the animator. Having the ability to lathe, extrude or loft an eps curve in EIAS is about convience. That's the trump card. Being simple is the major selling point.

You stated: "Mrs cannot operate with EPS file(s) directly, need to import it inside EI, it's not always fast and pleasant" .... That's the whole problem. Its not fast and pleasant.

If we go your route, what do we have to do? First buy a modeling package. Except for maybe Silo, most of them are going to be considerably more expensive than a plugin. Next, learn that modeling package. Then go into that modeling package, draw a curve, revolve or extrude whatever, bevel, export, (hopefully as a .fact if its supported) if not an .obj, consider potential UV coordinate problems, import into EIAS, texture and render.

The invigorator way. Draw a cross section in illustrator or any 2d program that can save out EPS files. Save. Launch EIAS, run plugin, instant model. Make it automatically generate UVs like Ubershape and there's no fuss. Need more mesh resolution? Your way, go back to the modeler, re-tesselate or remodel and resave, then reimport into EIAS, copy keyframes if you have any animation already on the old object and the total time spent is considerable. Invigorator? Click the plugin and increase the number of faces. Done. No animation lost or needs to be copied. If you're happy with the Invig model, you can always export out as a .fact, but part of the beauty of Invigorator was the fact that you could change the resolution with a click of a button. Uber shape follows the same principle. How annoying would it be if we wanted a sphere and we had to go into a 3rd party modeler to get one? Very annoying.

As for Northernlights, which plugin are you talking about? Im not aware of anything that NL offers that can do anything like Bebel or Invigorator/Lathe. Except maybe path plotter... so I guess that could handle lofting functions. I appreciate you wanting to be concerned for other plugin vendors and what other people have purchased, but we're in a competitive market. You shouldn't hesitate to create something better than what's out there. You're already competing with Northernlights by offering FlexPath. Its in direct competition with Contortionist. If Blair created Bebel, I'd be asking him to do the same thing.

Suggestions like these, I feel, are trying to increase the viability of the entire program. What's one of the first major caveats of using EIAS? No modeler. That's why we're in the 3D Specialty applications section on CG Talk and not in with the "big boys". (LW, Maya, Max, C4D etc) We're competing against some seriously good packages out there and we've rested on Camera's laurels too long. 3rd party plugin programmers like yourself are the key to keeping EIAS attractive until EITG can incorporate those missing technologies. If we make the mother package more viable, it sells more seats. More seats means more sales for you too.

halfworld
02-12-2006, 07:18 AM
Yeap, although I use EI for Animators laurels too ;)

I've already decided to buy Bebel at some point, It is a great plug-in, as several people have said, it is the closest thing EI has to a built in modeller (it creates fantastic geometry), it would just be even cooler (and worth more $) if it could deal with EPS files imported into Animator. I could use that. Of course, I realise it's a heck of a lot of work for the programmers, but it would be such a time saver, and that, after all, is a big point in Mrs. Bebel, to stop you from having to go back to you're modelling program...

Pro Animator capabilities in EI would be great, we already have the animator part... we just need the 'Pro' bit :)
Ian

Igors
02-12-2006, 10:45 AM
Hi, Brian an Ian

>> As for Northernlights, which plugin are you talking about? Im not aware of anything that NL offers that can do anything like Bebel or Invigorator/Lathe.<<

But CableCraft looks like lofting..

>> Except maybe path plotter... so I guess that could handle lofting functions. I appreciate you wanting to be concerned for other plugin vendors and what other people have purchased, but we're in a competitive market. You shouldn't hesitate to create something better than what's out there. You're already competing with Northernlights by offering FlexPath. Its in direct competition with Contortionist. <<

Such competition easily can be not productive for both developers. And need to think twice (or more) before start it.

>>The invigorator way.. <<

It sounds like (please correct us if we wrong): "You, guys, must learn from great Invigorator how to extrude. It would be better if you put your efforts in reanimating/improving of this awesome product instead of creating something yours (it's named as "combining the powers", but we see you just want to have "old good Invigorator" and nothing more). And it would be same successfull as 10 years ago"

Sorry, but in our opinion the Invigorator way is just obsolete. Why EPS is only one possible base of extrusion? Why the base cannot be animated? Why it's only a plane shape, not any surface or even every facet? How about interactive profille edit, advanced caps etc.?

We've nothing against opinion like: "combo EPS + extrude is very (most) usable", but EPS import should be solved in host.

>> it would just be even cooler (and worth more $) if it could deal with EPS files imported into Animator.<<

We understand you, Ian. Yes, host's import is hmm... not always perfect, and in any case it would be helpful if a plug has a button sorta "Load EPS..", right :) ? But please understand us also: a plug-in should solve its main task instead of duplicating host's functions like load models/textures.

So, sorry, gentlemen, but no EPS support.

kevmo
02-12-2006, 01:18 PM
We've nothing against opinion like: "combo EPS + extrude is very (most) usable", but EPS import should be solved in host.

>> it would just be even cooler (and worth more $) if it could deal with EPS files imported into Animator.<<



I agree:

EPS import in EIAS would be a good thing.
The new version of Maya has a AI vCS import feature AND if the original file is edited it is updated in Maya. Obviously there is a need for such features. (Wasn't there an INV for Maya at one time?)
I like Mrs. Bebel and yes it would be cool if it could do this and other Invigorator type features. IMHO the foundation is there.
One thing I liked about Invigorator was you could turn on and off different parts of the EPS file and apply different FX all in the same plug.

3DArtZ
02-12-2006, 03:22 PM
Igor, I am curious.

What would it take to get this project going?

Mike Fitz
www.3dartz.com (http://www.3dartz.com)

Igors
02-12-2006, 03:59 PM
Igor, I am curious.

What would it take to get this project going?



Hi, Mike

Please explain what project you talk about?

3DArtZ
02-12-2006, 04:16 PM
Hey Igors, I was trying to figure in my mind(non programming mind!) what would it take
for programmers to begin work on a plugin like we are talking about here.

The reason why I asked is because perhaps, we could (community wise) "hire" you guys to assemble this/upgrade/further develop MrsBebel.

Thanks for any info

Mike

Igors
02-12-2006, 04:58 PM
Hey Igors, I was trying to figure in my mind(non programming mind!) what would it take
for programmers to begin work on a plugin like we are talking about here.

The reason why I asked is because perhaps, we could (community wise) "hire" you guys to assemble this/upgrade/further develop MrsBebel.

Mike

Well, "this/upgrade/further develop MrsBebel" is not enough clear formula. Revolver? It's simple but unneeded. EPS file? For 1 plug? Looks not serious. It's better to hire Blair who knows much more about import/export - at least you would have EPS for all plugs

But we like your train of thought :)

Vizfizz
02-12-2006, 05:23 PM
Igors,

First off let me just say to everyone: This is a friendly debate. The Igors are raising good points. I, of course, will stick with my position because from my experience, my requests are well justified.

On with the debate.

Igors: "But CableCraft looks like lofting"

Agreed. I completely overlooked Cablecraft. Sorry Blair. But CC is not a lofter, but rather an animation capable extruder. I know CC will support multiple entities within the control group, but I'm not sure if it will create geometry between two separate outline entities of different shape. (IE a circle to a square). Twisting and scaling of the outline cross section is supported, which is great. Secondly, Cablecraft doesn't have its own outline/spline loading capabilities. You must use imported entities within EIAS. I'm ok with this because of Blair's control group method is well thought out for the way his plugins operate. But ultimately, CC serves a specific animation requirement. Its not really a plugin used for modeling purposes.

Igors: "Such competition easily can be not productive for both developers. And need to think twice (or more) before start it."

I agree. I don't want a war breaking out. EI's market is too small for fighting between vendors. However, competition isn't a bad thing. Its the foundation for producing a superior product and it allows the users to decide which product meets their needs for both methodology and practicality. Users ultimately want some kind of modeling subsystem with EIAS. Any vendor that supplies this, I believe, will be well received.

Igors: "You, guys, must learn from great Invigorator how to extrude. It would be better if you put your efforts in reanimating/improving of this awesome product instead of creating something yours (it's named as "combining the powers", but we see you just want to have "old good Invigorator" and nothing more.)

You're taking this too personally. I'm all for creating new and unique plugins. Bebel is awesome. I own it. You know I support you guys because I've purchased nearly 3/4 of your entire product inventory. I plan to own everything by Konkeptoine eventually. The loss of Invigorator in OSX/PC left a very specific void within EIAS. One that, in my opinion, was crucial to people in the broadcast design community. It was fast, easy, and efficient. Its not about reliving the "glory days of invigorator", but rather, seeing a potential plugin emerge that could have both the powers of Invig, Lathe, and Bebel in one product. You need to take off the developer/programmer hat for a minute and listen to what the users are asking for. We want some form of integrated modeling tools. Until EITG gives us that, we're relying on 3rd party guys to provide it.

Igors: Sorry, but in our opinion the Invigorator way is just obsolete. Why EPS is only one possible base of extrusion? Why the base cannot be animated? Why it's only a plane shape, not any surface or even every facet? How about interactive profille edit, advanced caps etc.

Mike had an excellent suggestion in a previous post. It would be awesome if your plugin would allow us to draw the cross section within Animator and then extrude it or revolve it or whatever. I love the idea of interactive profile editing within Animator, but is that possible within the current plugin API? If it is.. by all mean... do it. I only suggest EPS as a solution because drawing bezier splines in a 2d package is so simple and its understood by any level of user. Its good for newbies.

Igors: We understand you, Ian. Yes, host's import is hmm... not always perfect, and in any case it would be helpful if a plug has a button sorta "Load EPS..", right ? But please understand us also: a plug-in should solve its main task instead of duplicating host's functions like load models/textures

"Host's import is not always perfect"....hmmm. True. But EIAS doesn't even have EPS import. Neither does Transporter. Modeler had it, but modeler is dead. Not good for people purchasing new seats of EIAS. Why is EPS import valuable? Easy. Tools like Illustrator have tons of 2d spline creation tools, alignment tools, kerning tools, etc etc etc that dwarf anything EIAS offers. Hopefully, IF (heavy on the IF) integrated modeling tools in EIAS appear within the next year, these issues will be resolved.

Igors: "So, sorry, gentlemen, but no EPS support."

I think you're missing a huge opportunity here.

Igors
02-13-2006, 12:32 AM
Hi, Brian

Let us not answer "step by step" but concentrate on key places only. We hope it will be more productive and interesting.

>> You're taking this too personally. <<

Absolute not (even maybe with our English it looks so ;) ).

>>You need to take off the developer/programmer hat for a minute and listen to what the users are asking for.<<

We propose a "reverse" way. Please imagine (for a minute) you are an engineer, we think here this word is more suitable than "developer" (too abstract) and "programmer" (assumes a concrete implementation). Let's talk as engineers who plan an "extrusion, revolving and lofting" system overview, counting business aspects.

Ok, imagine (only imagine) that "Load EPS.." button is added to Mrs. Please sorry our immodesty but what David and we would have from it? A big additional piece of work - absolute yes, but $ - looks like absolute no. "They charge money for a single button added!!!" - for users it's not intersted how much developers' blood this button can drink. What happens if we cannot implement EPS import? (yes, engineer should count this variant always, not to rely on "someone has already done this"). Or if this work cannot be finished in short time? Maybe we'll improve, improve and improve our great EPS import (following by users' formula "we need"). And, maybe, half year later it will be Ok, but.. no any new model tools are ready/started yet. What if new EPS "sub-formats" coming and we must back to this work again and again.

So, why we need such stone on our necks? How about to forget about EPS and find other ways that are easier and faster for both: users and developers?

>>but rather, seeing a potential plugin emerge that could have both the powers of Invig, Lathe, and Bebel in one product.<<

Let's omit numerous tech. details but just say: in our opinion it's not realistic to collect "all in one plugin", need 2 and more plug-ins. Clear-clear: "so, I should pay $150 for Mrs, $150 for.. etc.:curious: " Of course, no, it's not a way to go. How about "more integrated" approach, for example: you are Mrs user, so, say, Mr. Revolver is accessible for you and its price is very and very tolerant/loyal?

Ok, let's talk more about Mr.Revolver. We see: interface as for Mrs, same graph but used for revolving. Minimal set of options (revolver is simpler itself), like: count of revolve steps, revolve axis, UV options. No EPS please.

Interested? Ideas? Suggestions?

Vizfizz
02-13-2006, 01:02 AM
Hey Igors,

I'm glad to hear that I haven't upset you in any way with my ideas. I'm certainly not trying to attack your position and I fully respect the work you guys do. Without developers, we artists would have nothing to work with.

So.. we can agree to work together on meeting the need at hand. This is a good step. Let's start over then and ask the primary questions necessary to meet both parties requirements.

Artist's Position: We would like a set of tools that can provide Animator with a method in which we can generate geometry from within the package itself. It should be able to:

1. Extrude
2. Bevel
3. Revolve
4. Loft between open and close curve entities.
5. Be capable of loading and saving settings for each capability.
6. Be capable of modifying the existing cross section.
7. Potentially be capable of generating the curve or cross section with animator itself.
8. Preferably be a single plugin tool rather than multiple tools.
9. Be capable of generating meshes at any level of resolution.
10. Integrate some level of animation capability.

Engineer's Position:

1. Be cost effective and capable of generating income for your business.
2. Does not interfer or cause unnecessary competition between 3rd party vendors.
3. Is not dependant on outside formats like EPS which may become obsolete in the model generation department.
4. Can be programmed in a reasonable amount of time.
5. Potential committment for such a product from the user base.

Am I missing anything?

halfworld
02-13-2006, 06:39 AM
Hey Igors!

Thanks for the positive response!!! :)

Could Mrs. Revolve marry Mr. Extruding? Mrs. Revolve would be a great start though...

I suppose the really simple modelling tools would be great, and if they make enough to make it worth while adding more... That would be great too.

So long as you could use Mrs. Bebel on Mrs. Revolve (oh dear, that doesn't sound right...)
Ian

(I still don't want to give up on loft though....)

Igors
02-13-2006, 10:25 AM
Hey Igors!

Thanks for the positive response!!! :)

Could Mrs. Revolve marry Mr. Extruding? Mrs. Revolve would be a great start though...

I suppose the really simple modelling tools would be great, and if they make enough to make it worth while adding more... That would be great too.

So long as you could use Mrs. Bebel on Mrs. Revolve (oh dear, that doesn't sound right...)
Ian

(I still don't want to give up on loft though....)

Hi, Ian

In our lang Revolver is "he", so - mister. But let's concentrate on what he does, how to name is a kind of pleasant problems :)

Igors
02-13-2006, 11:25 AM
Hey Igors,

Artist's Position: We would like a set of tools that can provide Animator with a method in which we can generate geometry from within the package itself. It should be able to:

1. Extrude
2. Bevel
3. Revolve
4. Loft between open and close curve entities.
5. Be capable of loading and saving settings for each capability.
6. Be capable of modifying the existing cross section.
7. Potentially be capable of generating the curve or cross section with animator itself.
8. Preferably be a single plugin tool rather than multiple tools.
9. Be capable of generating meshes at any level of resolution.
10. Integrate some level of animation capability.

Engineer's Position:

1. Be cost effective and capable of generating income for your business.
2. Does not interfer or cause unnecessary competition between 3rd party vendors.
3. Is not dependant on outside formats like EPS which may become obsolete in the model generation department.
4. Can be programmed in a reasonable amount of time.
5. Potential committment for such a product from the user base.

Am I missing anything?

Hi, Brian

First of all for us it seems fully clear: need to finish this thread and start a new one. It corresponds to switching from general discussion to concrete. So, we propose to start "Mr.Revolver" thread.

About your lists: generally we absolute agree. Of course, it's possible to discuss more some things, for example, is it the same: extruding and beveling , but imho such details are not very important. Only one difference is enough principal:

>> 8. Preferably be a single plugin tool rather than multiple tools. <<

Sorry, but we are fully sure: there is no way to collect all in a single plugin. We see only a series of plugins (in one style).

Ok, back to Mr.Revolver. It's maximally simple (can be programmed in a reasonable amount of time) and minimally conflicted. Yes, we wrote it's "too simple" and we still think it's "not enough featured". But maybe we can apply our brains together to make it a popular tool?

So:

- it looks like Mrs but graph is revolved (internal, the plugin builds cross-section itself)

- external cross-sections... How about this: for each child group the plug-in finds/scans particle lines that are used as a "revolve contour" (we are not familiar with terms). If child group(s) has polygon geometry, the plugin scans opened edges and uses them as a contour.

That's a modest but absolute realistic start. Your move(s), gentlemen ?

Vizfizz
02-13-2006, 11:34 AM
Ok Guys...

I'll start a new thread. However, Mr. Revolver? Hmmm.. gonna have to work on that one.

Brian

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