Why did you buy a mac?

[maX_Andrews]

you would want the macbook pro much more over the powerbook, they are much faster actually cheaper and the powerbooks are being phased out. Here's the apple link: http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/
it runs on an intel coreduo processor at 1.63Ghz or 1.83Ghz depending on the model. Pretty much everything is better than the powerbook, including the price.

The only downside is that because it runs on the intel processor some applications will take longer to be 100% native on the new intel chips than others. Photoshop, for example, will run fine under OSX's built in emulation on the macbook, but until adobe releases a universal version, you'll be getting about 60-70% of the total possible performance, which is still faster than the powerbook anyways.
The cool thing is the macbook pro really isn't expensive at all compared to similar PC notebooks, in fact its even cheaper than many of them. The intel switch really allowed apple to drop the price on these machines.

The advantages of apple notebooks as opposed to other notebooks are:
• Ease of use of mac OSX for video, audio, and image editing applications
• Bundled software and efficient interface is good for mobile computing
• the lightest and sleekest full-featured notebooks in the world
• very well built with design focused on the mobile creative and business user
• the webcam works with apple's software out-of-the box
• everything works out of the box, as apple designs it to all work together, it's a highly concieved and designed machine, not just a bunch of components tossed together
• excellent connectivity to projectors (plug it in and you're projecting hassle-free in about three seconds) and audio equipment (optical audio in/out)
• excellent display, I played with a macbook at macworld in january the display was very impressive
• built in firewire (most pc laptops need an expansion card)
• dvd/cd burner that works out of the box, all the software is integrated
• very fast and hassle-free wireless network switching for connecting on the go...I was tech guy at a camp over the summer and I spent most of my week helping people on windows laptops setting up their wireless connections
• comes with a remote, very useful for presentations
• very reliable, i still use a 400Mhz apple G3 powerbook from 1999 as my only portable computer
• better battery life and power managment than most notebooks
• hate to be cliche, but everything just works, plug something in, it works. Very nice

The cons are that for these features you will usually end up paying a bit more than a "comparable" PC, but the macbook is really close to simiular PC laptops.

You'll want to get a stick of this: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/5300DDR2S1GB/ and install it yourself if you get one of the macbooks, the thing apple really overcharges for is memory upgrades. It's very easy and a lot cheaper to do it yourself.

hope this helps, I'm not trying to start a flame war, the above is just my opinions having used a number of mac and PC laptops (I am typing this from a friend's PC laptop right now)

[maX_Andrews]

Forgot to mention, the macbook also comes with a graphics card able to drive a 30" high-resolution dual-link display, the the apple or dell 30" displays.

THis is what I mean with the whole "works out of the box" comment: http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/oneverymac.html

It has, for example, nearly every printer driver pre-installed, so pretty much any printer you plug in will be recognized and will work without installing any new drivers.

Here's the iLife software that it comes with: http://www.apple.com/ilife/

The great thing about apple's software is that it uses a consistent interface across all it's applications. If you know how to use itunes, you know how to use imovie, which means you know how to use final cut pro, which means you know how to use iDVD, etc. SO there's not a lot to learn, just a lot to do.

The macbook pro starts shipping in three weeks.

As for why I personally bought a mac, I like well engineeried things that work well, and macs do. I have spent many a beautiful afternoon pulling my hair out over crashes and glitches and troubleshooting PC's, my mac is what I come home to and relax with.

Oh I should also mention that macs are completely virus free, as in zero virusus, zero spyware.

[Beamtracer]

I really love the bundled iLife (http://www.apple.com/software/) software (I'm not sure if it's bundled with every machine... it might be). Garage Band is one of my favorites... anyone can create and record professional sounding music. I'm thinking of upgrading to Logic.

The multimedia software is also very compelling... Final Cut Pro, Motion, DVD Studio Pro etc. Motion is particularly good for adding post effects to your 3D stuff.

When I create image sequences from 3D renders, I can view 16-bits-per-channel images, plus their alpha (cut out), directly from any folder window as they are made, without having to launch any application.

Multitasking is very efficient. I set a render going in Lightwave, plus a render in After Effects, and the two will work at the same time without crashing. I can even surf the web and do an audio Skype telephone call on top of the renders.

On a laptop you can encrypt your entire user directory and password protect it, so that if you lost your laptop nobody can read the contents (that feature is called File Vault). It runs just as fast in encrypted mode... you can play video or whatever.

The operating system can create PDF documents from any other document.

The security thing is a major major benefit. My machines are connected to the web 24/7, even when rendering 3D, without any worry, and without anti-virus software to steal system resources. I don't worry every time someone sends me an email attachment that it might unleash some virus like a genie out of a bottle. It's good not to have to worry about that.

Built-in VNC server, so you can look at the desktop of one machine from a remote machine. Sometimes I use that to check up on a machine that's rendering in another room.

Dashboard widgets are pretty cool. I keep the clocks of a number of cities around the world (plus their immediate temperatures) at the touch of a button.

Better quality video chat / conferencing. You can use iChat to video chat with Windows users on AIM. However if it detects another Mac on the remote side it switches to the H.264 video codec.

[Garma]

thanks a lot for your extended reply! That really helps a lot. I'll take a look at this macbook then.

edit: hmmm, that certainly looks interesting, although I still think it's a little expensive. Since it will be my first mac, I was thinking about buying a used one (you know... I still have to fall in love.), which drops the price to around 1200 euros for a powerbook 15"... I have to give this another thought. This macbook is not starting under 2200 euros I think

[evanfotis]

Why don't you just buy a used G5 instead?
Save laptop money for a mor powerful system.

[Garma]

well I need a laptop anyway, but not for very advanced use. I have a pretty advanced desktop computer, and I'm happy with that one. I just need a laptop for word processing, internet, a little bit of programming, etcetera. It seems like a nice opportunity to meet 'mac'.

[evanfotis]

If you will mostly use it for Word, surfing etc, it doesn't need to have a highres screen-the oposite in fact. A XGA one will be fine.No squinting at tiny letters of a uxga res. squeezed in 15-17 inches...
Whats the budget?

[Beamtracer]

I'll take a look at this macbook then.
Some of the Mac rumor sites speculate about an Intel-based iBook equivalent coming out in the next couple of months, in case you want something cheaper than the MacBook. They're speculating it will be single core.

[Miguelin]

Maya doesnt work on intel based mac using rosetta, and in alias you can read they dont know if it will relase or just when they are planning to do it. Lets wait to see what hapapens.

[beaker]

Maya doesnt work on intel based mac using rosetta, and in alias you can read they dont know if it will relase or just when they are planning to do it.It works just fine through rosetta. Just really slow.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=313128

[beaker]

I bought a 12" ibook, and now I'm replacing it with a 17" powerbook. Why? because everything just works and I can deal with other crap. Plus I can use all my coding apps and they work without a hitch. Python, Perl, Ruby, Tcl, etc... all built in. Any other opensource apps are easily compiled and added with Fink.

Awesome utilities that I wish there was a linux (or even windows)versions of:
Path Finder: http://www.cocoatech.com/pf4/
Launch Bar: http://www.obdev.at/products/launchbar/index.html

Also add virtual desktops to your mac:
http://desktopmanager.berlios.de/

Here is a good list of must have and freeware apps:
http://b00tix.com/~pablo/ (http://b00tix.com/%7Epablo/)
http://chip.cuccio.us/must-have-mac-software/

Here is a good switcher guide for people coming from windows:
http://plasticbugs.com/?p=312

[ntmonkey]

I watched the keynote and I'm thinking about getting the Apple MacBook Pro. Loooong time PC user here and I think that sucker is sweet. Like the guys mentioned above, everything just works. I'm just waiting until the apps I want comes native so it can fully utilize the power.

peace,

Lu

[CoolDuck]

Y I bought a Mac?

Because of the stylish design and because OS X is so super user friendly. And of source of the slick design of the OS.
It's a lot more stable, there are less chance for spyware and viruses on the Mac.
Software is also very good on the Mac, there are some nice free software available, aren't available for Windows. OS X comes with a lot free utilities in the OS itself, like PDF viewing, cropping/rotating images, slideshows, screenshot utility, built in Apache.....
The Mac computing experience is just very good imo.

[Miguelin]

Its really hard to decide... Yes, Mac is sweeter and really nice, the osx seems to be more stable (but i have to say that i dont have so much terrible problems using XP).. i still dont know what to do, they are really expensive looking that you can have a dell with quadroFX Go and 2gb Ram for 1800 euro, not 2500 of the new mac with the ati x700.... i think i will wait some months to see what happens.

[DrQuincy]

People still say they go with Mac because of the inhrent media capabilities and that the Mac OS is more stable than Windows OS but let's face it - XP is pretty stable now. Let's wait for Vista and everything wlll go full circle.

[maX_Andrews]

the reason apple is more expensive is two reasons:

1. The components they use are custom-manufactured to their specifications. Sure they have an intel motherboard in there, sure the dvd burner is by pioneer. But these are not typical OEM components. They are built specifically for apple and undergo more stringent quality and error margins than traditional bargain basement PC's. These special manufacturing runs in much smaller quantities than the OEM counterparts, coupled with more stringent manufacturing tolerances, adds to the cost of each component. Furthermore, the components are not picked haphazardly. This is why you can't choose every single component of an apple, because they pick very select components that work the best with each other. Leading me to...

2. Time and effort. Anybody can take currently available technology and toss it into a plastic box with a bettery and call it a laptop. To make a good piece of technology, however, requires lots of time to design and develop, as well as a lot of resources. The way apple builds a new PC is more like the way a car company designs a new vehicle. First, an idea is concieved of and a market is identified. Next, a set of feautres is carefully selected to best fit the market and purpose of the vehicle. Then, the vehicle is designed, inside and out. It takes hundreds of engineers thousands of hours, as well as a lot of little clay car models build by professional sculptors. All of these people have to be paid. Only after the final design is approved are prototypes built. This is tested, smashed, etc, and then the design is improved, and then again, and then again, until it works. And only then does it hit the production process. Apple designs its products in much the same way I'd imagine. At a company such as dell, it's more about cutting deals with manufacturers to offer the latest components at the lowest price. But when's the last time you looked at a dell and thought "wow, that's really well engineered." If we bought cars made by companies like dell and acer, we'd be driving around in bloated, loud, ugly, but cheap and undoubtedly fast vehicles. Anyone with an incling of entrepreneurship can toss a bunch of electronics into a box, but not anyone can fit those same components into an enclosure 5/8" tall with adequate cooling, quiet operation, robust I/O features, and an assurance that every component will do its job straight out of the box. When you buy an Apple, you're not paying more for the components, you're paying more for the expertise of hundreds of engineers and thousands of man hours, all put towards that slim little device on your lap, that which you look and feel and think to yourself "this is a really nice machine."

I have an old powerbook G3 400Mhz that I use as my current laptop, and every time I open it up I'm amazed by the thought put into it. It can hold two batteries, for example, but one can be swapped out for an optical drive, or a zip drive for that matter, on-the-fly. It has lots of useful I/O that I can't believe they thought to include back in 1999, such as s-video out, vga, firewire, audio line-in, and even an infra-red port. And it's been wireless since 2001. Great machine, and it runs a web browser, OSX and word just fine.

And hey, if we have any luck at all, you should be able to run windows on the new macs too! :)

[Tyger]

I just don't understand whenever there is a mac mentioned someone has to take a jab. Leave it alone, it's old and tiring. I've had Pc's and I currently own macs I think both machines are capable and great systems people have different perceptions and views.


Now back on topic....My first Mac was the Powermac G4 Dual 867Mhz MDD (and still using it and kicking strong) The main reason why I got this system is because I was just starting out my freelance graphic design business and I was working with a friend with a Mac. He pretty much showed me the ropes and from there IMO my Mac experience was a good one. As a creative "artsy" type I didn't know much about the technical aspect of computers and I found that I didn't have to maintain it much as the PC I owned (though much has changed since then) I really liked the OSX, it was a great experience for me indeed. I was able to get the G4 packaged with the Adobe Design collection for a very good price and went for it. Today this computer runs like a gem. I can still do my 2d work on it with no problems but it could probably use a little more RAM though. IT handles 3d fairly well until you get into the heavy detailed models and textures, and quite frankly rendering times are wwwaaaaaayyyyy too long.

5 years later and as mentioned still using the same computer, no major problems and very happy with it....but as my needs increased and job opportunities changed I found myself recently looking for a big upgrade. The g4 was still good for 2d things but as I got more into 3d I realized that i needed something with more KICK! :)

Long story short, got myself a Powermac G5 Quad, hopefully it'll be here by next week. It's the fastest Mac out there right now so I figured I'd go all out and be happy, all my software is Mac and the Quad works very well with Cinema 4d which i will mainly will be using along with my 2d apps like photoshop, illustrator, after effects etc.

I have quite a few jobs ahead of me so waiting for the Intels to come out isn't realistic because of the wait time for software migration.

I love my Mac and will continue to love them and IMO they are worth every penny. I'm sure the Quad will be like a revelation coming from the 867Mhz Dual g4 :)

[Beamtracer]

I'm using the OS X 'Automator' more these days.

Example: I render out an image sequence in one application, but the format of the file name is incompatible with another application. With Automator, it will change the file name of every image in the sequence. Changing the file names of 2000 images by hand would take a long long time. Automator is really easy to use, also.

It's the little things!

[Miguelin]

Yes, they are nice and slim and could be a reason for be expensive, but i dont know if they deserve 700 euro more than an equivalent dell pc laptop (dell comes with quadro, mac with normal x700), thats why im thinking about it, but sorry, we have lot of stories of our old computer. My old dual P2 with 512Mb ram is still working really fine, i can do almost everything with it.

[evanfotis]

I'm using the OS X 'Automator' more these days.

Example: I render out an image sequence in one application, but the format of the file name is incompatible with another application. With Automator, it will change the file name of every image in the sequence. Changing the file names of 2000 images by hand would take a long long time. Automator is really easy to use, also.

It's the little things!

On the PC too you can find loads of free batch renaming utilities with all sorts of goodies....

[enygma]

On the PC too you can find loads of free batch renaming utilities with all sorts of goodies....
Well, yah, but that is only one of tons of tasks that you can do with automator. Automator is basically a tool that allows you to put nodes of tasks together by connecting the output of one task to another.

I haven't used Automator much myself, but there is a demo I saw Apple do that involved loading a certain web page and downloading all of the images from that page into a specified folder.

Of course, those aren't the only things you can do. It is fairly intuitive.

[Saurus]

On the PC too you can find loads of free batch renaming utilities with all sorts of goodies....

I think you can also use XP cmd to change name. I remember using it during the NT days.

Question for Mac user:

A feature I use a lot in all XP software is the ability to paste dir location in the file>open>file name window. It lets me go directly into the folder or if I have file name with dir location connected, it will open that file. I deal with a lot of textures between Maya and Photoshop and this feature lets me go into Maya texture source attribute, copy location/file name then paste in Photoshop open window/file name and texture is instantly open without having to go searching for texture. I also like how this window acts like a little Windows Explorer within an application and how you can right click on the file and get all the function of right click and all the utilities I installed connected to right clicking from zipping files to doing a search. Right click also runs a utility we use called Perforce that manages our resource and from within the open window, I can unlock, lock, update from server and etc. Does a Mac have the similar feature?

[MattClary]

I'm holding out until I can buy the OEM version of OS X. Would rather run it on hardware of my choosing.

When compared to other PC manufacturers like Alienware or Boxx, I don't think Apple is that over priced, but then again, I don't buy Alienware or Boxx systems due to price either.

[enygma]

I'm holding out until I can buy the OEM version of OS X. Would rather run it on hardware of my choosing.

When compared to other PC manufacturers like Alienware or Boxx, I don't think Apple is that over priced, but then again, I don't buy Alienware or Boxx systems due to price either.
Your holding out on a pretty high order there... :D

Apple is going great lengths to make sure that OS X doesn't run on non Apple hardware.

[beaker]

I'm holding out until I can buy the OEM version of OS X. Would rather run it on hardware of my choosing.Never going to happen. Apple supplements their software sales with slightly higher priced hardware. Thats why FCP can cost $1000 and have 90-95% the abilities of Avid software that is 2-5x the cost. Same with osx, dvdstudio, shake, motion, etc... They are all roughly 1/2 the cost of their competitors.

BTW: if you do want to go out and buy osx and run it on your pc, search the web for the "Maxxuss" patches for 10.4.

http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

[geo5sf]

Its true that Macs have high quality parts, etc... but if you build a PC, you can build it with high quality parts as welll. I love my system, I have an Antec Sonata case whhich is quiet and looks nice.. good hard drives/video card. I also have a g4 Powerbook, and it is good for simple things like Web design, Photoshop, surfing the web, emai and basic After Effects stuff... but Maya runs really slow on it. So I use my p4 2.8 system with a new Quadro FX 3000 , and it flies.

The dual and quad G5's are impressive, but for desktops I like the option of being able to upgrade without having to purchase a whole new system. My p4 2.8 is showing some age now, so I like having the option of being able to buy a new CPU and or motherboard when I'm ready.

For some reason, PC systems in both Linux and Xp seem to be a bit quicker when I',m using software.. but I don't know.. if it's just me...

If you are really serious about Maya and Shake, etc...you can have Linux on your computer as well and have a pretty nice system.

All in all its whatever the user wants, OS X , XP and Linux all are good in their own ways.. its all good.

[Beamtracer]

BTW: if you do want to go out and buy osx and run it on your pc, search the web for the "Maxxuss" patches for 10.4.

http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
Yes, people are running OS X on their generic PC boxes already. It's happening now.

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with purchasing the software (OS X) and running a patch to allow it to run on a non-Apple box. However, technically it does breach the software license.

---------------------

Another OS X feature I've been using a bit lately is the Spotlight (search) feature. Luxology has released a spotlight plug-in, which allows you to search for elements inside the 3D file. For example, it can search the layer names inside modo or Lightwave files.

[Dreamabyss]

When compared to other PC manufacturers like Alienware or Boxx, I don't think Apple is that over priced, but then again, I don't buy Alienware or Boxx systems due to price either.


I spent a few hours pricing out a build your own opteron system and I surprised that it actually came out similar in price to the Mac Quad. I chose fairly expensive parts because to be fair, I wanted to compare quality of materials as well as price. For example, I priced a Silverstone case and it was around $300. I know you can get cheaper cases but to be fair, the quad case is really nice and comparible cases are going to be expensive. Anyhow, I digress... when it's all said and done, I think the price for a Mac Quad is reasonable compared to a (equal in quality) PC build your own or especially a Boxx system. I was kind of surprised because everyone is always talking about how much money you can save by going the build your own pc route. Based on this observation, I think the only advantage a PC has over Mac is the speed of some of the applications (subjective) and the ability to replace parts so that you get a longer shelf life. Cost is not really that different unless you consider cheaper parts and slower machines. As for top shelf PC's like Boxx, some of those are actually more expensive than Apple!

Comments? Agree or disagree?

[geo5sf]

If I had over $3000 to spend on a computer.. maybe I would have a harder time picking a system as the Quad G5 benchmatrks are pretty impressive. I initially built my PC system for $700, and have upgraded over the last 2 years... so Its safe to say that I speak from the lower price range...

My question is, how long until the Apple desktops are replaced by the Intel duo cores?

When Apple switches to %100 Intel, how long will software for G5 processors be updated and optimized?

If I bought a dual Opteron 64 bit, I know that software will always be optimized for that type of processor.

Anyway... just throwing that out there, as I'm not educated on Apple's "switch to Intel" .

[maX_Andrews]

All of apple's line will be intel by the end of the year. The applications are "universal binaries" which means they will run on the new intel macs AND the power pc macs natively, for "years to come" (apple's words).

A feature I use a lot in XP is able to paste dir location in the file>open>file name window. It lets me go directly into the folder or if I have file name with dir location connected, it will open that file. I deal with a lot of textures between Maya and Photoshop and this feature lets me go into Maya texture source attribute, copy location/file name then paste in Photoshop open window/file name and texture is instantly open without having to go searching for texture. I also like how this window acts like a little Windows Explorer within an application and how you can right click on the file and get all the function of right click and all the utilities I installed connected to right clicking from zipping files to doing a search. Right click also runs a utility we use called Perforce that manages our resource and from within the open window, I can unlock, lock, update from server and etc. Does Mac have the similar feature?

I'm not sure I quite understand this entirely, but it sounds a bit like spotlight on the mac.
Spotlight is a search tool integrated into OSX that finds any file within seconds. In the full spotlight view mode you can right click items and do a number of tasks. To open them all you have to do is drag it to the dock, which is a panel of applications or locations that is located on the bottom or sides of the screen, either hidden or always visible. Spotlight is also great because it searches within the text of files. FOr example, I always name essays and word documents arbitrary names and i'm not very organized so I used to have a lot of trouble finding the right essay. But now, I just type in a sentence or phrase I remember into spotlight and up pops the document.

Here is a screenshot of searching within spotlight and right-clicking on an item:
http://www.3dfightclub.com/~madmax/uploads/spotlight1.jpg
here's a link to another: http://www.3dfightclub.com/~madmax/uploads/spotlightmm.jpg
There are less options here than in the main finder, it would be nice to have more right-click options here, such as archiving. You can see the ability to create an automator workflow here like what beamtracer and enygma were saying.

Here is an example workflow I created that will burn my downloaded textures from mayang.com that contain "fullsize" into a dvd slideshow. This is a simple task ayways, but when managing files from multiple places and trying to apply global changes, this application really helps out a lot. You can, for example, download all the image files from a given directory of a given website, import them into iphoto in a new album, and set them as a screensaver. This would require either manually downloading each image, or at best using multiple applications if one were to do it manually.
http://www.3dfightclub.com/~madmax/uploads/spotlight4.jpg
Here's another automator workflow which downloads the images from the url's of a web gallery into iphoto: http://www.3dfightclub.com/~madmax/uploads/automator1.jpg
and the results of that workflow: http://www.3dfightclub.com/~madmax/uploads/automator2.jpg

Here's part of the dock and how you open a file in an application (I moved the window close to the dock to keep the screen cap smaller, it can be anywhere if it's not obvious in this pic)
http://www.3dfightclub.com/~madmax/uploads/sptlight2.jpg

Along the lines of what you were talking about, here is the "open" dialog in photoshop. It contains a spotlight instant search window so you can immediately find any files, or you can navigate traditionally, or store folders in the lefthand quick launch bar if you use them a lot (i.e my "3d files" folder that contains mos of my renders).
http://www.3dfightclub.com/~madmax/uploads/spotlight3.jpg

By the way, "madmax" is my own nickname for my HD, nothing to do with the member madmax here at cgtalk.

But by far my favorite feature is dashboard. When you hit f12 the screen dims a bit and tons of little java apps come flying into view. These are called "widgets" and can be everything from basic calculators to weather forecasts to phonebooks or stock tickers. There are thousands of these available from apple's site here: http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/?r=dbw
they are "always on" and the screen looks like this (taken a while back):
http://www.3dfightclub.com/~madmax/uploads/maxdesktop1.jpg
another, full res shot: http://www.3dfightclub.com/~madmax/uploads/dashboard4.jpg

Here's a shot of aperture, you can see the similarity to the OS interface:
Aperture: http://www.3dfightclub.com/~madmax/uploads/aperture.jpg

But hell I'll shut up now, apple can do a better job of covering its features than I can: http://www.apple.com/macosx/newfeatures/

That's why I like macs :)

[geo5sf]

is there a way to shut off widgets? I feel like it takes away from my RAM/Proccessor on my Powerbook...and I never use it.

[maX_Andrews]

http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/macosxhints/2005/08/disabledashboard/index.php

If you only use a couple, just only have a few widgets open in dashboard, the RAM usage depends on how many widgets there are open, not just that dashboard is running

-Max

[maxx10]

is there a way to shut off widgets? I feel like it takes away from my RAM/Proccessor on my Powerbook...and I never use it.


by hand using th terminal:
as link post above

or using this simple utility:

disable/enable Dashboard (http://www.natal.be/index.php/?p=6)

or if you want more customization power have a look at:

onyx (http://www.titanium.free.fr/pgs/english.html)


As for the original poster's question my answer is "user experience" ... I feel more comfortable working on a Mac, I have a 12' powerbook and an athlonX2 which is exclusively a Maya and Zbrush machine, because for all the other tasks I end up on the Mac although it's far less powerfull (but it still multitasks better, and even handles huge photoshop files better...)


edit - removed lengthy terminal explanation...

[Miguelin]

So if i want maya + zbrush better go to pc laptop. Right????

[evanfotis]

You can install any kind of widget in a pc too...

But are these points to consider when choosing an OS?
These are bublegum gadgets for teenagers...

Stability, compatability, expandability are what matter imho.

And yes, QuadMac may be a serious piece of machine with great specs and speed, but...
when the designers go to produce a workstation like that, aimed at professionals, you can't leave space for only two HDD...and let other companies come up with hacks to fit in more, or rely only on external storage.

[geo5sf]

g5's only have room for two hard drives? thats odd.. ive got 3 SATA drives in my PC and room for 2 more. It was really easy to buy a hard drive and install Linux on my Other drive. That's a bit of a limitation... as the more work you do, the more drives you aquire.

And yes, QuadMac may be a serious piece of machine with great specs and speed, but...
when the designers go to produce a workstation like that, aimed at professionals, you can't leave space for only two HDD...and let other companies come up with hacks to fit in more, or rely only on external storage.

If I were serious about Maya I would get a PC... We have Dual g5's at school and the Maya interface seems to be a lot slower than in Linux or XP. Maybe it's the drivers for the video card. I'm not really sure why but my PC is quick when I use the Maya interface... and I really like the feel a lot more. My advice is to find a way to try Maya out on both systems and decide for yourself.

[Dreamabyss]

If I were serious about Maya I would get a PC... We have Dual g5's at school and the Maya interface seems to be a lot slower than in Linux or XP. Maybe it's the drivers for the video card. I'm not really sure why but my PC is quick when I use the Maya interface... and I really like the feel a lot more. My advice is to find a way to try Maya out on both systems and decide for yourself.

It's been determined that it's caused by the drivers for the video cards. There was another thread where someone did extensive testing on a quad. The rendering was FAST but the gpu was extremely slow for the price you pay.

Although I have no allegience to Apple, I've been using Mac's for years and really like OSX, but you are correct, if I was using Maya exclusively I would definately go with a PC. I don't care about "widgets" or other cool shareware gadgets. I use Mac for Finalcut pro and use it more than 3d applications (currently Lightwave) and haven't found any other video editing program outside of the Mac to match it. My current system needs replaced big time, but the more I think about it, it might be smart to wait for the Mac intel desktops. I believe (hope) that will close the "PC is faster than Mac's" gap when it comes to 3d. I'd sure like to have a system that runs 3d as snappy as a PC and be able to also run Finalcut. Currently I'm forced to give up 3d speed if I want to use Finalcut, or use something other than Finalcut like Vegas or Premiere, or have two separate systems... that I can't afford.

[beaker]

As of maya 6.0 there isn't a huge difference anymore in the speed of maya. Maya 5.0 and earlier, yea it sucked balls on mac.

The trouble is the default mac configs come with really crappy video cards. If you get a 6800 it works fine. I have done a few films, commercials and television shows with them and it worked just fine. (I used a g5 at the last job and running all linux at the current job).

The big difference in that test was with a quadro 4500 vs a 6800/7800 ($1200+ price difference), which has actually been true on windows too. The quadro has never added significant speed differences on windows/linux, just driver stability and ability to tune the driver settings to specific apps.

[Miguelin]

The quadro has never added significant speed differences on windows/linux, just driver stability and ability to tune the driver settings to specific apps.

Well, sorry but you have never used a quadro. Using 3dMax its like 10 times faster, and almost the same using Maya and XSI, (or all softawares that uses dual planes).

[Dreamabyss]

The trouble is the default mac configs come with really crappy video cards. If you get a 6800 it works fine. I have done a few films, commercials and television shows with them and it worked just fine. (I used a g5 at the last job and running all linux at the current job).


Which G5 are you talking about? The Quad or the plain 'ol dual 2.0? Have you compared your experience on a G5 with a PC because it's probably relative to your perception. Sure you got the job done, but I wonder how much faster it would have been on a comparable PC? I'm not trying to start a platform war, I'd just like to know how big the preformance gap is between a middle of the road (G5 2.0) and a comparable PC. If it's like 10X faster, then that is a big deal. If it's not...then I can live with the G5 if it's just a "little bit" slower.

[beaker]

Well, sorry but you have never used a quadro. Using 3dMax its like 10 times faster, and almost the same using Maya and XSI, (or all softawares that uses dual planes).Yes I have used a quadro(been using them since they first came out and still use them). I have been working in cgi since the only cards with a gpu started at $2500 and Nvidia & ATI weren't even a blip in 3d.

No there is not 10x difference, not even 2x with Maya/XSI. What little difference is pretty small. As soon as you soft mod a regular geforce, the differences are next to nill. Also maya doesn't require dual planes anymore(got rid of it in v4.0). It uses them if availiable but defaults to software if not. Doesn't matter anyways, since most of the geforce cards(except the really cheap ones) have hardware overlay planes but disable it through the driver (softmod fixes that).

There is a difference with 3dsmax and Quadro because it comes with Heidi drivers (geforce does not, but again, softmod fixes all that). Opengl was bolted onto 3dsmax around version 2.0(badly, so it is really slow). They build 3dsmax around thier own 3d acceleration technology called "Heidi"(HDI). Windows NT 3.5.1 was brand new and Opengl was still really only an Sgi thing. There was no Maya, Softimage, etc... yet on windows, so 3dsmax was the new big boy. So of course Evans & Sutherland, Oxygen, HP, Integraph, etc...(bunch companies that are mostly gone now from the video card business) all added Heidi drivers to their cards.

[Saurus]

I'm not sure I quite understand this entirely, but it sounds a bit like spotlight on the mac.
Spotlight is a search tool integrated into OSX that finds any file within seconds. In the full spotlight view mode you can right click items and do a number of tasks. To open them all you have to do is drag it to the dock, which is a panel of applications or locations that is located on the bottom or sides of the screen, either hidden or always visible. Spotlight is also great because it searches within the text of files. FOr example, I always name essays and word documents arbitrary names and i'm not very organized so I used to have a lot of trouble finding the right essay. But now, I just type in a sentence or phrase I remember into spotlight and up pops the document.

That's why I like macs :)

Wow…thanks for the info. Dunno if it’s the same as spotlight. Is spotlight integrated in every OX application or a stand alone utility? The feature I’m talking about in XP is available in every application under file>open window. Its kind a hard to explain, but it’s like having window explorer opened without leaving application…when I get time, I’ll do screen capture to explain the feature more clearly.

[maX_Andrews]

Ahh yes, then OSX would have the same or an equivalent thing. Here's the adobe open screenshot again, but it looks like this when you select "open" in any application. You can access the spotlight tool from the open command and all that jazz:
http://www.3dfightclub.com/~madmax/uploads/spotlight3.jpg

[Miguelin]

About softmods and everything. The firegl scene is almost gone since unwinder is not doing any softmods anymore. Dont know how is the scene in nvidia. There are still many differnces between quadro and geforce, that sofmod cant resolve. Number of lights and realtime shadows is an example. The firegl and redeon are the same card, thats why lots of people move and mod their radeons when unwinder was doing patched drivers. About dual planes, Maya still uses it, dont know exactly when and how, but it uses it. Just try to make some hardware render and open the debug window, the sculpt tool doesnt work really fine with normal radeons.
Just take a look at some specviewperf benchmarks between moded and nonmoded cards to see differences, and of course, with real quadro an moded ones.

Can you mod nvidia on Mac? what about ati?

[maX_Andrews]

I'm sure it's possible, but as apple builds the drivers deep within the OS it's not a very conducive thing to start hacking. I think with the intel macs we'll see more of an effort to softmod some of the cards, as well as perhaps some PC cards flashed and modified to work on a mac.

[beaker]

There are still many differnces between quadro and geforce, that sofmod cant resolve. Number of lights and realtime shadows is an example.No, it's all the same. Look at a 7800 gtx and a quadro fx 4500, same card specs.

About dual planes, Maya still uses it, dont know exactly when and how, but it uses it. Just try to make some hardware render and open the debug window, the sculpt tool doesnt work really fine with normal radeons.
You miss read what I said. I said that Maya still uses them if availiable, but defaults to software if not. So if you have a card known for its crappy opengl drivers like Ati and it has hardware overlay planes then Maya is still going to use them. All you have to do is force Maya to not use hardware overlay planes with the env variable: "MAYA_SLOW_DRAWPIXELS=1"

Just take a look at some specviewperf benchmarks between moded and nonmoded cards to see differences, and of course, with real quadro an moded ones. yes, I've seen the tests and with a geforce of equal specs to a quadro and the difference is 1-2 fps.

Can you mod nvidia on Mac? what about ati?No not yet since the quadros are brand new and at the moment there is very little speed difference between the 7800 and fx4500 so there isn't really a need. Also there is an actual physical differences between the two on the mac platform. Mac's don't have the 7800 gtx with 512 meg which is equal to the fx4500, only the 7800 gt.

There are no firegl on mac, so no to that.

[beaker]

I'm sure it's possible, but as apple builds the drivers deep within the OS it's not a very conducive thing to start hacking. I think with the intel macs we'll see more of an effort to softmod some of the cards, as well as perhaps some PC cards flashed and modified to work on a mac.Actually you have been able to flash pc cards since back in the geforce 3 days. Currently they have flashes for the ati 9600/9800/x800 and geforce 5200/6600/6800/7800. It only works with certain cards though because of the rom size and other factors.

[JDex]

Reasons I have for buying my next Mac... aside from the economics of multi-booting...

Motion
Shake 4
possibly iWeb - The rest of iLife does nothing for me.

[Saurus]

Ahh yes, then OSX would have the same or an equivalent thing. Here's the adobe open screenshot again, but it looks like this when you select "open" in any application. You can access the spotlight tool from the open command and all that jazz:


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f22/roach779/mayaToPhotoshp2.jpg

Here you go. I use tons of textures at work between Maya and Photoshop. This feature lets me go from Maya’s texture source attribute window to Photoshop’s open file window and quickly open specific texture. Other features I like include having right click feature available to textures visible from “open file window”. As I mentioned earlier, we use a program that manage our assets at work and when I need to unlock or submit new texture, I can quickly right click on texture using this window from within the application…don’t need to open asset management program.

[Miguelin]

Some benchmarks of quadro and geforce:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=163736

And another important thing, if its depends of the drivers mod (to flash the bios doesnt help anything) you have to be sure if there are possible patchs for your card. Its seems that is not so simply to do it. The firegl scene on Pc's is near to be dead (there are no patches for new drivers since unwinder is no doing anything). I have never heard about patch mod in mac osx. Who is doing it?

[beaker]

We were talking about flashing the bios on a pc video card so it will work on a mac.
http://strangedogs.proboards40.com/

No one is doing one for softmod to a quadro on the mac yet.

[Miguelin]

Flashing the bios dont do ANYTHING. Just change the name of the card (just this), and the clock rates values. An on ati's. change the clock values in bios doesnt do anything, you have to edit the bios in HEX and change something there. JUST THAT.

So if you just flash a firegl bios in any radeon card (like i did) doesnt means at all that you can instal native firegl drivers, they have to be patched (and if they are, you dont have to flash the bios) so the drivers have to be patched (drivers and control panel if we talk about ATI) and nobody is doing anything now (on PC, so imagine in MAC)

[DimitrisLiatsos]

Hi ,

To initial thread question of thread starter.

I own a mac cause i need a piece of mind ..Renders never stop in the middle of the night and so on.(MAYA)

The machine...never crashes at least not mine. (QUAD G5 with 4.5 Gigs of ram, 2x300 gigs HD)

I would rather prefer to see an NVIDIA 7800 GTX with 512 ram(like the big one from POV) than the 4500 quadro...it's speed in OSX is very poor regarding it's speed in a pc (the FX 4500 i mean...it runs much better in a pc).

I now have in my G5 a 7800 GT...no problem...at anything so far...


The FX4500 Quadro which ships for Pc's DOESN'T work on MACS...yeah i did test it...the mac starts but never displays anything...(i hate that bios differnces that Apple feeds in to vga cards...leave them alone for crying out loud).

If u intend to work 3D on a Mac...then STAY AWAY from ATI cards...they are such a pain in the butt for 3D (MAYA, i don't know for Cinema4D or LW...but i guess it has similar problems), Nvidia doesn't.

In my opinion u need both MAC and PC....then u can't really complain that u lack the tools........


P.S ; i am happy i managed to get a quad G5 before they get into Intel cpu's, have u seen the experimenta ones?...:scream: :scream: . All i need now is an APEX :beer:


Sorry if i sound like a mac fanboy...i honestly am not...i just feel more secure when also a mac running OSX is around.

[beaker]

Flashing the bios dont do ANYTHING. Just change the name of the card (just this), and the clock rates values. An on ati's. change the clock values in bios doesnt do anything, you have to edit the bios in HEX and change something there. JUST THAT.dude, this is getting old. You seem to misunderstand what maX_Andrews and I are talking about.

Apple manufactures the nvidia cards based on their reference boards and puts their own bios on the card so only cards made by them will be recognized by the system. Apple charges a premium for many of the highend cards(previously $500 for a 6800 when you can get a pc version for half that price). In order to put a pc version of a geforce or ati card into a mac, you have to flash the bios so the mac will recognize it.

Maybe you should stop trying to correct me at every turn. :)

[Miguelin]

Nooo dont get me wrong.... this is not any kind of fight! but honestly, im more confused than the begining.....
First i wanted mac, then opengl in mac is not so good, and then.....

Uffff.... What i have to buy???????? :)

[maX_Andrews]

LOL T.dreyer...

go to an apple store and try out the computers, see if you like them.

If you use 3dsmax, or do serious 3D work that would not run on an ordinary machine, then a PC is a better choice.

If you do a fair amount of 2D work, and use Maya, then a mac is a great platform for you.

Macs are fast, and so are PC's. the only differences in performance you will see are that the OSX finder will be a bit less snappy than XP (because it's image-based not table based. Expect the explorer in Vista to slow down as well for the same reason), and that when working with tens of millions of polygons, the PC will be able to handle a few more than the Mac for the OpenGL issues described above, but both can still handle tens of millions of polygons. They will both run games at good framerates, and there are some good FPS games for the mac.

If you need a laptop, the macbook pro is fantastic provided you're not looking for a desktop replacement (why by a desktop replacement when you can just get a desktop?). My rommate's macbook pro just arrived today and it's very, very nice. It's also a very good deal for the specs it has compared to similar machines, and it is designed much better and has good graphics. If you are looking for a laptop I'd recommend the macbook over most PC laptops in most cases unless you need desktop-like performance.

[maX_Andrews]

Just checked there's no apple store in spain...d'oh! Here's to more retail locations! :applause:

[Miguelin]

Yes, we have some dealers....
I was in the airport, waiting for my plane i saw 2 impersonal guys with pc laptops.
Im going for a mac.

Im bored of specs and benchmarks.....
Is a pc stilish? Is to be stylish important inside computer industry?

[Saurus]

Yes, we have some dealers....
I was in the airport, waiting for my plane i saw 2 impersonal guys with pc laptops.
Im going for a mac.

Im bored of specs and benchmarks.....
Is a pc stilish? Is to be stylish important inside computer industry?

I think my HP TC1100 is more of a chick mangnet than any portable mac...specially when I'm doodling with it.

http://bilder.guenstiger.de/prodfoto/hptc1100.jpg (http://bilder.guenstiger.de/prodfoto/hptc1100.jpg)

Hotty "You drawing?"
Me "Why...yes!"
Hotty "Wow...you're an Artist!"
Me "I got to go...I got a gallery showing...do you mind with we continue this conversation over lunch?"
Hotty "Sure!!"

:thumbsup:

[JDex]

My Toshiba Satellite Pro gets constant "OMG, That's an awesome laptop"... Apple's don't have the style vote across the board... and frankly if your more concerned with how your computer looks than how it works... that's a little scary.

All in all, Macs and PCs are worth your time investigating what will work best for you.

[Miguelin]

My Toshiba Satellite Pro gets constant "OMG, That's an awesome laptop"... Apple's don't have the style vote across the board... and frankly if your more concerned with how your computer looks than how it works... that's a little scary.

All in all, Macs and PCs are worth your time investigating what will work best for you.

No no no no, what is scary is not to have taste. So as equal performance ( its only about your needs) i will stop and see wich one is nicer.
So if i buy a new pair of shoes (yes, with all of them you can walk) i will chose the nicer one.
If i want a car (all of them are running good) i will stop and see the colors......
If i want a laptop...well.... lets choose mac.

[Miguelin]

and let me say more,

as you did (as everybody did) you payed more for that pretty shoes you loved just a little more than the others, that green there, those stripes here.....
Lets pay a little more for the mac, just becasue (yes, just this) they are nice.
Is it scary?

[JDex]

You're right... there's nothing quite like my $6000 ruby-handled screwdriver, nothing say work efficiently like a stylish tool. :thumbsup:

Whatever is most important to you.

[Miguelin]

Come on man...I know it must be cool and stylish (that tool you have)... but maybe its quite expensive (more than normal ones)...
Nowm thinking it again, mac are not much expensive as pclaptops are....

[tuna]

I just want to say that using shoes as an analogy for computers is the most ridiculous thing I've heard for a while.

To "have taste" (I.E. to buy a Mac??? crazy parallel you've drawn) does not make you more productive.

If you want to use a mac because it makes you cooler in the airport, then you probably have other issues you need to work out.

[Miguelin]

I just want to say that using shoes as an analogy for computers is the most ridiculous thing I've heard for a while.

To "have taste" (I.E. to buy a Mac??? crazy parallel you've drawn) does not make you more productive.

If you want to use a mac because it makes you cooler in the airport, then you probably have other issues you need to work out.

Sorry, its not ridiculous. Its just that, an analogy, sometimes we spend more, just becasue its nicer. Like shoes or what ever you buy.
To have taste, yes. I have never say something about to be more productive with a mac.

About the airport, it was an excuse to start a debate about if we, deep inside, buy a mac just because they are nice (as well as they are a really good mahines)

[tuna]

Sorry, its not ridiculous. Its just that, an analogy, sometimes we spend more, just becasue its nicer. Like shoes or what ever you buy.

I understand people spending more on something because it's nicer :) I just thought that because we were on a CG forum, we'd be talking about CG tools. It seems you were talking about a personal laptop you use for things not-CG related, or simply that CG wouldn't be it's main task. This is fine, just think it should be made clearer.


[offtopic rant - no need to reply]
I'm not a fan of analogies. Buying decisions for shoes and laptops should be vastly different, and this example doesnt even need an analogy. If you can't explain what you're trying to say, then you probably need to think it through more. People throw analogies around all the time, and they often come across as strange, dumbed down, not applicable arguements for things.

As soon as people start on about a car analogy, I skip the paragraph.

[Miguelin]

I understand people spending more on something because it's nicer :) I just thought that because we were on a CG forum, we'd be talking about CG tools. It seems you were talking about a personal laptop you use for things not-CG related, or simply that CG wouldn't be it's main task. This is fine, just think it should be made clearer.


[offtopic rant - no need to reply]
I'm not a fan of analogies. Buying decisions for shoes and laptops should be vastly different, and this example doesnt even need an analogy. If you can't explain what you're trying to say, then you probably need to think it through more. People throw analogies around all the time, and they often come across as strange, dumbed down, not applicable arguements for things.

As soon as people start on about a car analogy, I skip the paragraph.

Well, we are debating here, right now Technical and Hardware ---> WHY DID YOU BUY A MAC?

"It seems you were talking about a personal laptop you use for things not-CG related, or simply that CG wouldn't be it's main task. This is fine, just think it should be made clearer." From where you take that????

Man its simply, both can do WHAT I NEED TO DO (yes, 3d CG work) , of course analogies are allow here, of course, because im in the same situation (yes, sometimes i have been hours trying to decide wich shoes i want just because color so imagine with my car!) so what is the diference with a computer?

[maX_Andrews]

My roommate just got his macbook in the mail, and it's very very nice. There really is no PC laptop that comes close to its sleekness with comparable specs. And it even feels faster than my dual 2.0Ghz G5! I'm very impressed, even the remote that it comes with is a blast to fool around with. Something fun about selecting a song from across the room with a little remote :-D And I still can't get over how thin it is...it's noticeably slimmer looking than my roommate's older 15" powerbook G4, and if I stack BOTH of the apple laptops on top of each other next to my other roommate's vaio, they are around the same height. But yeah, the feature I like the most so far is the remote with frontrow ohhhhh and the magnetic power connector. It's fun to sit there and let it yank the connector into place hehe :)

Anywhoo I'm ver impressed by the macbook having been able to use it for a few hours today. It's a very impressive computer, and no PC laptops I've seen, or even apple laptops for that matter, comes close.

[Dreamabyss]

My roommate just got his macbook in the mail, and it's very very nice. There really is no PC laptop that comes close to its sleekness with comparable specs. And it even feels faster than my dual 2.0Ghz G5!...


Cool...but how does it "feel" when running applications that aren't native. Lightwave? Finalcut? Photoshop? How much does it slow-down once you need to access Rosetta? Does it still feel faster than your dual G5? That's what I'd be interested to know.

[samov]

had a mac.... a 15.2 powerbook 1.25 ghz..... 9600 and everything..... had photoshop on it..... NOT IMPRESSED.....

i was in love with it..... sold it DUE to the lack of autocad and 3ds max on it......

got a zd8000.... 4.5 kg monster.... 3.4 ghz 650 HT ... 2gigs of ram ... and ati x600 128 moded to firegl v3200 for the extra speed in 3ds max.....

bottom line.... my love has changed..... :D... NOTHING beats speed....(especially in rendering).....

an intel mac U say (dual core yonah with NO 64 bit).... did a test with an acer... also centrino dual core 1.83... just as the macbook.... my 3.4ghz WIPPED THE CRAP out of it.... max rendering was 15 % faster on my zd8000..... and I have 64 bit... for the up coming vista and a whole lot of apps ....

only downside.... only 1.5 h battery life.... but hey.... how's perfect....

mac is good for what it does best.... some e-mail, some surfing, iLife 06 for girlies who want to have a picture of everything.... oh ... and some photoshop... for those who WORK SLOWER :D.... and by the way things are going mac will go 64 bit.... in about 2 years..... windows is only 6 months away (not counting win xp 64 bit.... couze of lack of software and driver support)

windows xp rules..... couze i have it just the way i want it to be..... and becouse i CAN tweak it the way i want it to...... and becouse it does NOT use 400 megs of ram DOING NOTHING.... but display cute pics...

have fun

[Miguelin]

mac is good for what it does best.... some e-mail, some surfing, iLife 06 for girlies who want to have a picture of everything.... oh ... and some photoshop... for those who WORK SLOWER :D.... and by the way things are going mac will go 64 bit.... in about 2 years..... windows is only 6 months away (not counting win xp 64 bit.... couze of lack of software and driver support)

have fun

Oh.. just let me be as far as possible from MAX.
Here are some people posting who has win 3d cgawards using mac, maybe they work slower but man.... they can teach you some tricks...
A final advice....
Dont go so fast..... well done works needs time, patience.... and style.

[beaker]

got a zd8000.... 4.5 kg monster.... 3.4 ghz 650 HT ... 2gigs of ram ... and ati x600 128 moded to firegl v3200 for the extra speed in 3ds max.....

bottom line.... my love has changed..... :D... NOTHING beats speed....(especially in rendering).....

only downside.... only 1.5 h battery life.... but hey.... how's perfect....Well yea, you bought a desktop replacement, not a laptop. 95% of the people out there don't buy laptops for what your using it for(rendering, full cgi production, etc...). That thing is like carrying around a tank :)

Apple laptops are more in the range of a Sony Vaio.

[beaker]

I think my HP TC1100 is more of a chick mangnet than any portable mac...specially when I'm doodling with it.

http://bilder.guenstiger.de/prodfoto/hptc1100.jpg (http://bilder.guenstiger.de/prodfoto/hptc1100.jpg)

Hotty "You drawing?"
Me "Why...yes!"
Hotty "Wow...you're an Artist!"
Me "I got to go...I got a gallery showing...do you mind with we continue this conversation over lunch?"
Hotty "Sure!!"

:thumbsup:Umm, yea, most artists get that with just a big pad of paper drawing at the zoo or in the park. It has to do with you drawing, not the computer. :)

[maX_Andrews]

Cool...but how does it "feel" when running applications that aren't native. Lightwave? Finalcut? Photoshop? How much does it slow-down once you need to access Rosetta? Does it still feel faster than your dual G5? That's what I'd be interested to know.

I haven't tried photoshop on it yet as he hasn't installed it but Microsoft Office and final draft booted right up seemlessly with the other ilife apps and seems much more responsive than the old powerbooks, on par with my G5. Things launch very fast. I assume photoshop will feel about the same for most tasks. Cloning a few spots out and adjusting levels and applying a few filters isn't really rocket science. Where you would see the effect of emulation would be applying complex filters to larger images, but it's in the range of a few seconds as those filters really don't take too long. So many people get caught up in the speed with relation to photoshop. The only time speed ever comes into play is if you have like a 5000x4000 pixel image and you are applying a series of median filters and noise reductions. RAM is the big factor for really big images. What photoshop really craves is stability, integration, and color management. These elements is where the macbook (and all macs) shine, regardless of speed. If you get a macbook, get a single stick of 1GB RAM and get another from macsales.com

But yes overall, the macbook feels as snappy or snappier than my G5.

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