DreamWorks Animation recruiting new employees

[cosku]

I like the "surface and light animators" part :D

[FloydBishop]

With a crew that large, I wonder what happens when the production is over?

[poly-phobic]

With a crew that large, I wonder what happens when the production is over?
they get the intern treatment.

"good luck, with stuff...."

[AlbertArt]

Goodluck sending in your demoreels! Let the :scream: rat race begin?

[flipnap]

i believe they always do contract.. even with the big guys

[Slurry]

How does Pixar being absorbed by Disney give any other studio an "advantage"?

Art

[MartyMcFly]

How does Pixar being absorbed by Disney give any other studio an "advantage"?

Art

Yeah, I was kind of confused by that as well.

And is PDI just going to be a sequal house?, and dreamworks animation going to do their more *cough* original :rolleyes: *cough* ideas?

[rblitz7]

Thats awesome! Good luck to all those applying!!:scream:

[beaker]

With a crew that large, I wonder what happens when the production is over?Even Pixar laid off a lot of people after Nemo because they had already staffed up most of their people for Incredibles, so no one is perfect. :)

Projects have to align right in order to move people from one movie to the next. If story is king like many people preach, then it is silly to start a project before it is ready. Therefore you can't always have stuff aligning perfectly in order to prevent the loss of employees. Also between projects companies often lay off people saying there is no other work in order to weed out people that don't fit in, bad personalities or those that just aren't very good. This is the way the industry works.

Floyd, you seem to always be bitter about this topic but even you are going to have to unwillingly lay off people some day. This industry is fickle and goes up and down. It's just the cost of doing business and you can't always keep everyone employed all the time. The burn rate of having even 10 artist sitting around doing nothing is quite expensive.

[Capel]

Floyd, you seem to always be bitter about this topic but even you are going to have to unwillingly lay off people some day. This industry is fickle and goes up and down. It's just the cost of doing business and you can't always keep everyone employed all the time. The burn rate of having even 10 artist sitting around doing nothing is quite expensive.

quoted for agreement.

[xynaria]

Projects have to align right in order to move people from one movie to the next. If story is king like many people preach, then it is silly to start a project before it is ready. Therefore you can't always have stuff aligning perfectly in order to prevent the loss of employees. Also between projects companies often lay off people saying there is no other work in order to weed out people that don't fit in, bad personalities or those that just aren't very good. This is the way the industry works.


Even if projects are aligned as perfectly as is humanly possibly you would need to have at least three major projects all on the go at the same time not to have lay offs. An average crew on a film can peak around the 300 mark with quite a large latitude on that whilst in the early stages 100 would probably be overmanned.
When you sign your contract it's usual for it to be for just the one feature if that.
There are no jobs that are secure in animation and there never have been ..it goes with the turf.
Providing you're not a waste of space, most well run companies will try to gap as many as is possible but the reality of wage bills has to come into the equation somewhere.

[FloydBishop]

I'm just mentioning the down side of things because you never see those mentioned in press releases.

With schools, universities, and certification programs kicking out something like 5,000 new "animators" every six months, I don't think many new people get to hear about what happens when a project ends. I think a lot of newer people see a post like this one and get super excited. If hired, they're willing to quit jobs, sell houses, and move far from friends and family for something they might think is forever, only to be dropped in a few months.

People need to hear about what happens at the big studios, and if they only read it from my posts, then so be it. It's a much bigger part of the feature animation business than schools would have you believe.

[yinako]

I think a lot of newer people see a post like this one and get super excited. If hired, they're willing to quit jobs, sell houses, and move far from friends and family for something they might think is forever, only to be dropped in a few months.


There are people who don't have a job and no house, and hence less friends and no family, so a few month to get in the job they wanted is no hesitation. I'm also sure some people will throw away a job and sell a house and leave friends and family to get that few month of experience.

[AlbertArt]

Companies opening their doors to new hires is nothing new, they're gearing up for projects. The Layoffs that come after a projects completion is also something you should expect as job security isn't as secure as one may think. Especially if you're told that your duration of employment is only for "x" amount of months.

What gets me is... whenever a Company cuts employees, they automatically become an evil empire with no soul. :shrug: Why is that? Not enough projects, not enough work.

So technically if this were an ideal world there would be a whole lot of Projects being pumped out by studios to keep people employed... yet the general industry would be oversaturated by films. :shrug:

But anyway who cares, people need jobs. :hmm:

[ntmonkey]

*snip*

What gets me is... whenever a Company cuts employees, they automatically become an evil empire with no soul. :shrug: Why is that? Not enough projects, not enough work.

*snip*

For the stockholders, it's a sign that there's at least some management going on to keep the company profitable. And think about it this way. I'd rather a studio layoff a buncha people to keep it's heads above water than get pulled so deep that they have to close the door, snuffing out any future possibilities. Even though I'm involved on the creative side, I'm also a big consumer of what we all do.

Find me a company that won't ever lay off people, and I'll show you an employee that won't ever complain.

peace,

Lu

[amannin]

does anyone know the number of employees staffed at Dreamworks Animation (Glendale) permantaly (or is there such a thing) How many people are there always, regardless of layoffs? percentage wise, if its easier... (particularly animators?)

[leigh]

If hired, they're willing to quit jobs, sell houses, and move far from friends and family for something they might think is forever, only to be dropped in a few months.

But this doesn't make sense. Because surely, before they move anywhere, they'd sign contracts, and contracts generally stipulate the term of employment. I thought it was pretty widely understood that film work is, more often than not, contract-based. I don't know of any studios doing film work that do not have "project hires".

There is a big difference between sudden, unexpected layoffs, and a person leaving a studio once their contract is up. It's a fact of life, and nomadic artists need to accept this, and prepare for it, if they choose this route.

[pearson]

Leigh, he's thinking of the starry-eyed new graduate who will do anything to work on movies. On the flip side, I almost didn't take my first job because I thought the pay was too low and the contract was only for a few months. I ended up working there for a couple of years.

As for why companies that layoff are seen as evil, a lot of it has to do with timing. A lot of companies purge just before Christmas, which seems pretty Grinch-ey.

[leigh]

Leigh, he's thinking of the starry-eyed new graduate who will do anything to work on movies. On the flip side, I almost didn't take my first job because I thought the pay was too low and the contract was only for a few months. I ended up working there for a couple of years.

Yeah I know. My point was that, graduate or not, contracts are signed up front, so it's not like people are being duped into thinking they have jobs for life :shrug:

[keithlango]

Well, it's not unheard of in this business for an HR person or recruiter to tell a recruit "We have a 3 picture deall and the distribuotr/studio/financer loves what we're doing. And we have X number of projects in development about to go greenlight any day now. So don't worry about this contract because there will be plenty more work coming right after this.".

It happens. And those who lack experience often fall for it. And even those who do have experience fall for it. Just know this: only plan on being someplace until your job on the current picture ends. Even if you have a longer contract, don't count on anything more than the show being made today. With that knowledge in hand, go forth boldly and have a blast making animated movies! Sure beats selling insurance. :D

-k

[Capel]

Yeah I know. My point was that, graduate or not, contracts are signed up front, so it's not like people are being duped into thinking they have jobs for life :shrug:

this is true. and i hope this next part doesn't come off as too harsh, but unless a studio is going under, when it comes time to make cuts, the weakest links in the chain are the ones to get the boot. so just do great work faster than the majority and you should be safe. :) easier said than done, i know, but that's how you survive...

this isn't to say that great artists never get laid off, but the better you are the more the studio can't afford to lose you.

...have a blast making animated movies! Sure beats selling insurance. :D

-k

well put, Keith. oh and by the way, your online tutorials were literally my introduction to animation, so thanks. they were really invaluable.

Ok, back on topic. sorry folks. :)

[Rick May]

Yeah I know. My point was that, graduate or not, contracts are signed up front, so it's not like people are being duped into thinking they have jobs for life :shrug:

It isn't that unusual for a studio to break a contract. They can bury some obscure clause in there to make sure they have an escape route. Or, the penalty for the studio breaking the agreement is so insignificant, they do not think twice about it.

Not all studios have contracts either.

[leigh]

It isn't that unusual for a studio to break a contract. They can bury some obscure clause in there to make sure they have an escape route. Or, the penalty for the studio breaking the agreement is so insignificant, they do not think twice about it.

Not all studios have contracts either.

I think you're still missing my point. Of course some studios break contracts. My point was that no-one would ever be under the impression that they had a job for life, as Floyd mentioned. No job in this world is for life, especially not jobs in this industry (film). People going into this field should be prepared for the fact that they're probably going to move from one studio to the next quite a lot.

As for studios not having contracts, I'd never work for one that didn't. That would just be foolish.

[beaker]

It isn't that unusual for a studio to break a contract. They can bury some obscure clause in there to make sure they have an escape route. Or, the penalty for the studio breaking the agreement is so insignificant, they do not think twice about it.Most of the big studios don't even hide it. Employment contracts are pretty one sided mainly because they know people don't read them or get a lawyer to take care of them. The ones I have seen from DW and Disney all say that they can terminate the contract at any time. When I interviewed at DW the HR person told me upfront about this.

Many people I know get lawyers to take care of their contracts (HR & Producers in LA are pretty used to this). They get a provision added to the contract that if they are dismissed early the company has to pay out the rest of the contract. Employment lawyers charge a commision of anywhere from .5 to 2 paychecks for doing contracts, so it is in their best interest to get you the best rate and the best deal.

Everything in this industry is negotiable.

[Rick May]

I think you're still missing my point. Of course some studios break contracts. My point was that no-one would ever be under the impression that they had a job for life, as Floyd mentioned. No job in this world is for life, especially not jobs in this industry (film). People going into this field should be prepared for the fact that they're probably going to move from one studio to the next quite a lot.

Gotchya. I guess your point wasn't clear to me.

I think there are a ton of naive students trying to break into the field that don't really understand the whole layoff thing and how often it occurs. It isn't something that is talked about in some schools (at least from students I have talked to) simply because their whole goal is to get students in and suck up their money painting the brightest picture possible about the industry.


As for studios not having contracts, I'd never work for one that didn't. That would just be foolish.

Yeah. All those fools up at Pixar. :) Seriously, don't you think that is kind of limiting to your future? The majority of studios don't have contracts. A lot of the ones that do are just feeding simple agreements that don't have any sort of protection for anyone but themselves.

To each their own. It's all good. :D

[leigh]

Yeah. All those fools up at Pixar. :) Seriously, don't you think that is kind of limiting to your future? The majority of studios don't have contracts.

Okay now I am confused. Exactly what do you mean by contract? Because every studio I have ever worked with has had contracts, and by contracts I mean a written agreement with you outlining your terms of employment. Are you talking about something else? I would never work for a studio where I wasn't given some kind of agreement. Of course I understand that these agreements can always be broken, but it's for that very reason that you should have something in writing - to protect yourself. This is something I learned about the hard way when I was still freelancing for private clients.

[FloydBishop]

I think there are a ton of naive students trying to break into the field that don't really understand the whole layoff thing and how often it occurs. It isn't something that is talked about in some schools (at least from students I have talked to) simply because their whole goal is to get students in and suck up their money painting the brightest picture possible about the industry.

That was my point.

[shehbahn]

>Exactly what do you mean by contract?

they probalby mean the most common for the vfx industry : project based contract - you sign on for the duration of the project.

Pixar, by opposition, is (to my knowledge) one of the very few studios having "at will" contracts : it can be terminated by either party at any time, without notice (but is not tied to any particular project).

another kind is renewable options contracts : you sign on for say 3 years, but every 6 months the employer has the opportunity not to pick up the option (ie. laying you off). that's would be the Disney standard operating mode.

[leigh]

>Exactly what do you mean by contract?

they probalby mean the most common for the vfx industry : project based contract - you sign on for the duration of the project.

Pixar, by opposition, is (to my knowledge) one of the very few studios having "at will" contracts : it can be terminated by either party at any time, without notice (but is not tied to any particular project).

another kind is renewable options contracts : you sign on for say 3 years, but every 6 months the employer has the opportunity not to pick up the option (ie. laying you off). that's would be the Disney standard operating mode.

Yeah and that's what I was talking about too... even with an "at will" contract, it's still a contract.

[seven6ty]

Actually, I've read that Steve Jobs, I believe it is, is the only employee at Pixar to be bound by a contract. There's an article someone brought up about this with me that I'll have to find. And yippie, I'm also on "at will" here at Sony, so I know it can't be that uncommon.

[leigh]

Actually, I've read that Steve Jobs, I believe it is, is the only employee at Pixar to be bound by a contract. There's an article someone brought up about this with me that I'll have to find. And yippie, I'm also on "at will" here at Sony, so I know it can't be that uncommon.

So when you joined Sony, you didn't sign a single piece of paper? And no, at will is certainly not uncommon at all. From what I gather, I think that many, if not most, studios operate on an at will basis. But my point still remains, that people know this before they travel across the country for jobs. Surely people are not so naive as to pack up and go for a job without knowing a single thing about the job they're going to?

[seven6ty]

Ah, here are two quotes from articles that had originally piqued my interest:

For the time being, at least, it appears that Disney has locked up Lasseter's services for only five years. In an interview transcript filed with the SEC, Iger said Disney would pick up the animation guru's current 10-year contract, which expires in 2011.

It is unclear whether Lasseter, the only Pixar senior executive with an employment contract, might be able to negotiate a longer and more lucrative pact if the sale goes through as expected. - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-pixar27jan27,1,7868852.story?coll=la-headlines-business&ctrack=1&cset=true) "Pixar's Creative Chief to Have Special Power at Disney: Greenlighting Movies"

And the part I was talking about:

Contracts allow you to be irresponsible as a company. You don't need to worry about keeping people happy and fulfilled. What we have created here [at PIXAR] — an incredible workspace, opportunities to learn and grow, and, most of all, great co-workers — is better than any contract. - NY Times, 1/29/06, By WILLIAM C. TAYLOR and POLLY LaBARRE

[seven6ty]

So when you joined Sony, you didn't sign a single piece of paper?

Uhhh, what? I just told you I'm on an at-will contract here, meaning I did indeed have to sign one (or actually, more appropriately, SEVERAL, pieces of paper.)

[leigh]

Uhhh, what? I just told you I'm on an at-will contract here, meaning I did indeed have to sign one (or actually, more appropriately, SEVERAL, pieces of paper.)

And that's exactly my point, it's a contract. Even an at will agreement is still a contract. And people are generally made well aware of these contracts before they start their jobs. So I don't understand why people are talking about young, naive artists being screwed over by losing their jobs totally unexpectedly, when this is the general state that the industry tends to run by. My original point was that people need to be prepared for this way of working.

[seven6ty]

I think Floyd was talking about their expectations upon graduation and the way t hey think the animation industry is run, not necessarily being disillusioned at the time that they sign a contract and during the time they're working.

[beaker]

So when you joined Sony, you didn't sign a single piece of paper? And no, at will is certainly not uncommon at all. From what I gather, I think that many, if not most, studios operate on an at will basis.California is an "at-will" state. So even if an employer signs you to a contract that says otherwise, they can not sue you for leaving the company before your contract is up and they cannot prevent you from leaving to work for a competitor. So stuff like non-compete agreements are not enforceable in California(except for big wig CEO's and other very high up positions).

[Rick May]

And that's exactly my point, it's a contract. Even an at will agreement is still a contract. And people are generally made well aware of these contracts before they start their jobs. So I don't understand why people are talking about young, naive artists being screwed over by losing their jobs totally unexpectedly, when this is the general state that the industry tends to run by. My original point was that people need to be prepared for this way of working.

My point is simply that not every studio requires a contract. Granted, I have been operating my own business for several years and haven't worked for others except for the occasional consulting or production gig, even when I was doing nothing but freelance at studios down in LA or up here in San Fran... 9 out of 10 didn't have me or anyone sign anything.

As far as the young and naive students. Not every student is moving across the country for a job at DreamWorks or Disney or Sony or whoever else has a contract. There are dozens upon dozens of mid and small and even large facilities that don't require anything to be signed.

p.s. For the purposes of this thread, I'll lump contracts and agreements into one category. However, NDA's shouldn't be included since just about everyone has you sign one of those and they generally do not outline except disclosure issues.

[xynaria]

.

As far as the young and naive students. Not every student is moving across the country for a job at DreamWorks or Disney or Sony or whoever else has a contract. There are dozens upon dozens of mid and small and even large facilities that don't require anything to be signed.




Has as been noted by others a contract is only a means of last resort if things go wrong really.
Like in any job, if you have large outside commitments. family,. mortgage etc, then you're going to be disadvantaged slightly when it comes to being as flexible as some but in my experience if you're remotely any good and have half a brain, getting your foot through the door is the most important step and far more important than any contract.
No company wants to loose good staff and when they do it's often because they simply can't get enough to work to keep them. Your most important asset is not a contract..it's you.

[Leionaaad]

Oh all the newcommers will fall short BUHUHU!!!
Come to your senses people. If you are trully interrested to get into this industry, you will know all the ups and downs. You will do the research. And ify you are good enough, you don't have to be affraid to be sent home.
The main thing is: out of the blue layoffs will be a surprise only for people who were ignorant enough. So tell me they don't really deserve it!
Besides. Animation is a highly competitive industry. Studios need new people. So the contracts for only a project is the best thing for them. And the employed artists can learn something new until the day they die.

And yes, I am a little bitter. A straight 36 hours work can really get you.

[Capel]

The majority of studios don't have contracts.

I've never not signed a contract. even for a job that lasted a week.

[RayenD]

Well, it's not unheard of in this business for an HR person or recruiter to tell a recruit "We have a 3 picture deall and the distribuotr/studio/financer loves what we're doing. And we have X number of projects in development about to go greenlight any day now. So don't worry about this contract because there will be plenty more work coming right after this.".

[...]With that knowledge in hand, go forth boldly and have a blast making animated movies! Sure beats selling insurance. :D

-k

Too funny, I have heard it today and two weeks ago. And many times in the past ;).

The biggest deal for me personally is a style of layoff. If you know 2-3 months before projects ends that you aren't going to be needed anymore, you can line up something etc.. The worst are sudden layoffs or these types of manager who keep you up till the very last day, just because they "might need" you. Doesn't happen that often fortunately.

[Rick May]

If you are a project hire, then being shown the door at the end isn't a big deal. You know what's going to happen well before it happens. It's the surprises that can knock people for a loop. For instance, the Toy Story 3 people at Circle 7. Although they seem to be getting a lot of time to prepare for the possibility of unemployment (still getting paid for the time being while they figure out if they can be dispersed to other departments). It was still a shock and came out of left field.

Just for the record, I have never been layed off. I'm only playing the devils advocate, because it is so much fun. :D Also, as someone who does hiring, I have a pretty intimate experience with concerns and naivety in potential hires. People that have been in the industry for a while, they typically understand. But even then, that isn't always the case.

[hiphopcr]

The majority of studios don't have contracts.

Yeah that's crazy, even for little freelance projects you should always get something in writing. As an intern I signed a contract, as an employee I signed a contract, and for projects on the side I always make a contract. Not getting anything on paper is the first step to getting screwed over.

[beaker]

Also, as someone who does hiring, I have a pretty intimate experience with concerns and naivety in potential hires. People that have been in the industry for a while, they typically understand. But even then, that isn't always the case.This is going to come off a little unsensitive, but I think it is good for entry level people to get a burned when they are new to this industry. Getting screwed, working long hours for no overtime, working for free, moving around, meeting new people, etc.. is all part of the learning experience. Understand that nothing is for certain and that you need to watch your ass (especially in LA). You learn how to really look for work(looking ahead before the project is over), how to tailor your reel, business sense, negotiating, etc.... You learn to smell bullshit really fast.

I know a few people that started out at a big company right out of school and didn't get laid off for 5-6 years. First, the layoff came as a total surprise, blindsiding them. When they got out they didn't have a reel and didn't know how to look for work since they got their job right out of school. They weren't very good at interviewing either.

It is much better to be screwed and learn from your mistakes at 25, then at 40 when you have a family to support.

[beaker]

This comedy quote in a weird way illustrates my idea of why entry level people need to be burned a little when they start out.

Christopher Titus:

The Los Angeles Times states that sixty-three percent of American families are now considered dysfunctional. That means when Armageddon *really* happens, thirty-seven percent of this population is going to *lose their minds*. Us sixty-three percent? We're going to go, "Hey. . . there's no one watching the Lexus dealership!"

[Shenan]

Do game studios follow these same hire/layoff patterns per project? I would imagine so, but wasn't sure. Is this pretty much a normal pattern for any kind of animation studio?

[pearson]

Do game studios follow these same hire/layoff patterns per project? I would imagine so, but wasn't sure. Is this pretty much a normal pattern for any kind of animation studio?Yes, except that game studios don't usually tell you that you are a project hire. ;) And to confuse you further, they will cancel the game you started on, split your team onto two existing teams and then a year later give you your walking papers as a Christmas gift. :D

[Slurry]

I think maybe it depends on the studio you are at. The games industry is much more stable than film.

Not that layoffs aren't a possibility, just that continued work is more likely.

Art

[amannin]

i'm glad i caught onto this discussion -- i honestly had no idea the animation industry was so "jumpy" or that contracts could be so short, or end so suddendly. Being out here in L.A., if someone was to get laid off unexpectedly, or just laid off, is it normal that they would find work again shortly after, within enough time so that it would not affect their rent/bills ?

not that this will change my mind about joining the industry, though a heads up is always appreciated...

[ntmonkey]

i'm glad i caught onto this discussion -- i honestly had no idea the animation industry was so "jumpy" or that contracts could be so short, or end so suddendly. Being out here in L.A., if someone was to get laid off unexpectedly, or just laid off, is it normal that they would find work again shortly after, within enough time so that it would not affect their rent/bills ?

not that this will change my mind about joining the industry, though a heads up is always appreciated...

In LA, at least you're within proximity of a good number of studios that at one point or another are looking for help. I would think if you got laid off, that you could just land another job somewhere nearby. In the end, it really boils down how good your are, and if you can work well with other people. The saying that good help is so hard to find holds true in our industry. And believe me, right now is a good time to be part of the "good help" catagory.

I was told to be prepared for job leads to take anywhere from a week to 3 months to come to fruition. Sometimes, it's all about the timing, and not just about your abilities. As for rent and bills, if you get a good paying job, save up so you can weather the bad times. It would be unwise to not try to have at least 4-6 months of living cost stashed away just in case. And I would say this for any job, regardless if it involved 3D or not.

peace,

Lu

[jeremybirn]

I like the "surface and light animators" part :D

Is calling everyone some kind of "... animator" any worse than calling everyone some kind of "... director"? Both equally wrong, right? :)

-jeremy

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.