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jeremybirn
02-03-2006, 12:13 PM
Edit: This thread is archived. Read these scripts to get an idea of the moods to create in this room. If you scroll down to Challenge #2 in the downloads page, you'll see that you can still download this scene for your own tests, and that a gallery of top entries is available on-line.

The idea here is to render the scene as you interpret the mood, feeling, time of day, and genre of the script fragments below.

Here are the four script fragments that each introduce a kitchen scene:

SCRIPT #1:
MEG glides through the house, precisely following Hank’s
directions to the washroom. She passes through A WELL-APPOINTED
KITCHEN. MEG pauses to glance at A BOTTLE OF VINTAGE MERLOT
sitting unopened on the table. She smiles in anticipation and
continues through the moonlit expanse.

SCRIPT #2:
NICK staggers into THE KITCHEN, squinting to shield his
eyes from the morning sun.

NICK
(VO)
THE ONLY REAL CURE FOR A HANG-OVER IS ANOTHER BOTTLE
OF BOOZE. THE TRICK IS TO PASS OUT AGAIN BEFORE YOU
PUKE IT UP.

SCRIPT #3:
At the top of the stairs, BUCK stabilizes himself against
a doorframe and scans his surroundings. He is in a KITCHEN -
LATE TWENTIETH CENTURY - and mercifully free of Centaurs.
He sees A WINDOW. Escape! BUCK crouches, ready to dive
through the glass for another trans-dimensional leap.

SCRIPT #4:
THE BABYSITTER pads barefoot into THE SMITH FAMILY
KITCHEN. Bouncing in time to the music on HER HEADPHONES,
she does not notice the SOUND OF FOOTSTEPS. THE BABYSITTER
becomes absorbed in poking through the family’s cabinets,
blithely unaware that imminent doom is approaching.

It all starts with this little scene:
http://www.3drender.com/challenges/FS_Kitchen.jpg

DOWNLOAD HERE - http://www.3drender.com/challenges/ - AND START LIGHTING!

-jeremy

Matadŏr
02-03-2006, 01:53 PM
This should be great!!! :thumbsup: Very nice Jeremy.
I will make a try on this.

Gentleman, please start your renderengines :)

greets

jorust
02-03-2006, 02:08 PM
Thanks Jeremy!

I´m in... :bounce:

Ravix
02-03-2006, 03:07 PM
damn this is so addictive IM IN

jeremybirn
02-03-2006, 09:09 PM
I wanted these challenges to come from scenes that we have copyright clearance to perminantly archive here, so I built our kitchen scene from scratch. The one I built is also fairly small and simple, so it'll help people test render things quickly.

It's interesting to note that another thread has been using a kitchen scene for a rendering contest - to compare rendering software:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=275658&page=1&pp=15 (http://showthread.php?t=275658&page=1&pp=15)

edit: I considered bending the "everyone lights the same scene" rule to avoid redundancy, but if people like using a new, simpler scene, we should let the rules stand.

It is good for everyone to start on the same page, and if there are any problems supporting different file formats, I hope some "file format volunteers" can make the scene available in translation to whichever program needs it.

-jeremy

jorust
02-03-2006, 09:39 PM
Speaking for my self, I'm a bit "bored" by that kitchen scene. I was a bit active in that thread, and I also used that scene and a kitchen as a base for a tutorial I did on Lightning. http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8388

It's also a render-heavy scene.

We should stick to your scene. It's the light and the mood that count for this challenge. Not the number of plates in the table.

jeremybirn
02-03-2006, 09:46 PM
OK, our rules remain the same: use the scene from the top link.

-jeremy

yohann
02-03-2006, 10:26 PM
That's really hard and great! Thanks very much Jeremy!

And have too a homage for the first challenge over kitchen sink.:thumbsup:

AdamT
02-03-2006, 11:23 PM
This looks like fun--great idea. Are we free to change the camera angle/position, or is that locked off?

jeremybirn
02-03-2006, 11:50 PM
This looks like fun--great idea. Are we free to change the camera angle/position, or is that locked off?

The obj format does not include camera information, so most people will need to aim the camera themselves. Try to keep it as shown above, facing the wine bottle and window in all of them, so it looks like the same scene being covered.

The same goes with the models: try not to change them too much. If you just increase subdivision on something that needs smoothing or add a pane of glass to the window because you need a reflection, simple rendering-related things like that might be necessary to make a quality image. But the whole point of this is to show how much can be done through lighting.

-jeremy

digital_me
02-04-2006, 12:26 AM
I can't seem to open the .obj in Blender - something about a missing .mtl file.
Here's the error:
Importing OBJ file: "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\FS_Kitchen.obj"
file length: 301877
found 41 smoothing groups
unable to open referenced material file: "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\FS_Kitchen.mtl"

jeremybirn
02-04-2006, 01:39 AM
I can't seem to open the .obj in Blender - something about a missing .mtl file.
Here's the error:
Importing OBJ file: "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\FS_Kitchen.obj"
file length: 301877
found 41 smoothing groups
unable to open referenced material file: "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\FS_Kitchen.mtl"

Edit: I have uploaded a mtl file you can download here:
http://www.3drender.com/challenges/FS_Kitchen.mtl

Otherwise, is there someone else who knows Blender that can help? (File swapping is definately appreciated if someone has the software to do a useful conversion and share it...)

-jeremy

sjmcc
02-04-2006, 05:46 AM
Very cool. Thanks Jeremy. I will try and give this a shot, it should be a great learning experience.

royterr
02-04-2006, 07:11 AM
helle , i am using maya 6 and when i try to import the fil, i get the message:


// Error: //

pv_performAction "C:/Documents and Settings/ROY/Desktop/Kitchen.obj" "Best Guess";

file -import -type "OBJ" -namespace "Kitchen" -options "mo=1" -pr "C:/Documents and Settings/ROY/Desktop/Kitchen.obj";

// Error: line 1: Your OBJ file contains a line which is too long to be parsed. Please edit your obj file. //

// Error: Error reading file. //

how can i fix that (i have all my plugins loaded)?


is there a deadline for the challange?

sjmcc
02-04-2006, 07:39 AM
I downloaded the file and did some renaming and grouping of objects plus a little clean-up in Cinema4d. I don't know the best place to post this so I will just put it here. You can get the C4d version here:


http://www.allcinema4me.com/cinema/files/kitchen.rar

jeremybirn
02-04-2006, 09:12 AM
helle , i am using maya 6 and when i try to import the fil, i get the message:


// Error: //

pv_performAction "C:/Documents and Settings/ROY/Desktop/Kitchen.obj" "Best Guess";

file -import -type "OBJ" -namespace "Kitchen" -options "mo=1" -pr "C:/Documents and Settings/ROY/Desktop/Kitchen.obj";

// Error: line 1: Your OBJ file contains a line which is too long to be parsed. Please edit your obj file. //

// Error: Error reading file. //
how can i fix that (i have all my plugins loaded)?


is there a deadline for the challange?

Try downloading this MA file instead, it was written out of maya 7 but has the "requires" line removed in a text editor - hopefully it should load fine and only give you a warning about not knowing the maya version:
http://www.3drender.com/challenges/FS_Kitchen_MA.rar

There's no real deadline, but we'll start another challenge next month - post while everyone else is doing it and it's a lot more fun and you get more feedback.

-jeremy

digital_me
02-04-2006, 02:56 PM
Thanks for the mtl file, but I'm still getting one error:
ValueError: object "pPlane1" not found

royterr
02-04-2006, 05:10 PM
hello jeremy i tried the last version.

i am not geting any error messages but i get :

// Result: 0 //

and then nothing is being imported to the scene

(i am not familiar withe rar format)

what can i do? is it possible to post a mb or an obj format.

thanks

jorust
02-04-2006, 05:50 PM
royterr : .rar is a zip file.
Use winRAR or stuffit to extract the object/scene. The obj. is inside the .rar file.

elgordo
02-04-2006, 07:52 PM
Hi you all!!!
I've converted succesfully the file to blender format!! If anyone finds it usefull and knows whre i can upload i to, i will do it as soon as possible.
By other means, i found the height of the doors quite small, or the furniture inside the kitchen too big!!! If that door is 2.10 meters tall, the table must be 1.50 meters ... are we allowed to tweak this, in order to make the model look more real?
Thank you.

dbates
02-04-2006, 08:18 PM
Thanks elgordo! I could definitely use it, though I'm not sure where you could get hosting space.

digital_me
02-04-2006, 08:33 PM
Hi you all!!!
I've converted succesfully the file to blender format!! If anyone finds it usefull and knows whre i can upload i to, i will do it as soon as possible.
Email it to me, and I'll host it. digitalme2{at}gmail{dot}com

royterr
02-05-2006, 01:31 AM
polymess: thanks for the tip.

So we will have to build our own shaders?
i don't have any in my scene.

jeremybirn
02-05-2006, 01:46 AM
Hi you all!!!
I've converted succesfully the file to blender format!! If anyone finds it usefull and knows whre i can upload i to, i will do it as soon as possible.
By other means, i found the height of the doors quite small, or the furniture inside the kitchen too big!!! If that door is 2.10 meters tall, the table must be 1.50 meters ... are we allowed to tweak this, in order to make the model look more real?
Thank you.

Thanks for the conversion. I hope this wasn't any harder than getting the last challenge into blender, it was supposed to be the same .obj export of polygons.

You can tweak things a little, you may have to for some reasons, just as long as you stay focused on the main idea that it's only lighting and rendering style that sets the tone for the different scripts.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
02-05-2006, 01:50 AM
So we will have to build our own shaders?
i don't have any in my scene.

Yes, each person needs to set-up their scene assigning reasonable shaders. It doesn't have to be fancy. There's no format for moving shaders between all programs, so even if someone had done it for you that probably wouldn't port to most people's software.

-jeremy

elgordo
02-05-2006, 06:11 PM
Ok. So I will email you, digital_me the .blend file. I will tweak a little my own file in order to make the scale fit in each piece ... if someone finds this usefull i could also send this file.
Thank you.

digital_me
02-05-2006, 07:24 PM
Ok. So I will email you, digital_me the .blend file. I will tweak a little my own file in order to make the scale fit in each piece ... if someone finds this usefull i could also send this file.
Thank you.
I will host the file as soon as I get it.

elgordo
02-06-2006, 07:16 AM
Ok, digital_me, Ive just sent you the .blend file. Thank you very much for taking the time (and space) to host it.

Two issues about the file. The mesh's been directly imported into a new blender scene. As I've seen working with my scene, .obj conversion may have some minor problems in blender,and many vertexes are duplied. To increase render times, it's better to remove double vertexes, going object by object.
Thank you jeremy for this interesting challenges!
Thank you all.

digital_me
02-06-2006, 10:21 PM
kitchen.blend (http://gallery.mudpuddle.co.nz/albums/digitalme/Kitchen_001.blend)
I had to clean up the window mesh to make it usable, this scene now has a camera and the cleaned window mesh, the pane has a transparent (alpha) material, and the option to display alpha as transperent in the viewport is turned on.

SheepFactory
02-07-2006, 02:30 AM
Great topic Jeremy!

I'll try to enter this one.

Synthesizer
02-07-2006, 07:12 PM
Hey,
This sounds fun, I'm going to try my hand at it. Good luck everyone :cool:

bradw
02-08-2006, 04:28 PM
Great challenge!.. :arteest:
I really fancy a crack at this..

Quick question Jeremy:
If we are includng custom shaders, is it not possible that the lighting might be adversely affected/altered by people using/abusing file textures within shaders?

Seeing as it is a hardcore lighting challenge; how about setting a format for shaders so that we can all compare results effectively?
Or is it just a big free for all? :D

Personally, I'd be more interested in working with no file textures, and just using surface properties for the surfaces?

Are you judging the lighting or the quality of the shaders in the scene (and assoc' file textures?)

Thanks,
Brad.

jeremybirn
02-08-2006, 06:03 PM
Hi Brad -

Yes, setting up your shaders and maps before you do much work with the lighting is a good idea, otherwise you will need to tweak the lighting again after you see it with the final shaders/textures.

I don't fully understand your idea about "setting a format for shaders" - which program would that be for?

You're welcomed to work with just surface properties, procedural textures, go black and white, whatever.

Nobody here cares much about which graphic design tools you use to produce your scene, I'm sure the technical stuff varies a lot between users and their set-ups. If you have some great ideas about how shaders should work or something, it would be interesting if you posted a breakdown of how you did your scene and what shaders you used.

I'm not judging a contest. I try to give a lot of people feedback, and you're welcomed to do that as well. I look forward to seeing your images.

-jeremy

bradw
02-08-2006, 06:15 PM
Hiya.
Thanks for the rapid reply.

What I meant about a format, was to say that you may define it like this:
For example only:
Colour/diffuse channels only
No bump/displacements
No IBL

Not saying that the above should be the format, it just makes for easier comparison if we are all on the same page ;)
It makes it much harder if we are comparing varying interpretations of the surfaces within the scene..


I really like the idea of lighting based upon a vague script.
Something new for a games monkey like myself ;)


Btw, I hope you get a sensible cut from your lighting book royalties.. as I just added to them via amazon UK :D

Brad.

JeffPatton
02-08-2006, 06:18 PM
I ran into some problems with the .obj import into 3dsmax (beyond the occasional flipped normal)...the import really borked the window for some reason. Anyway, I made a new window (same size, etc...hope thats ok) and fixed the other smaller import problems.

Here's the 3dsmax (7.5) file if other Max users ran into the same import problems:
www.jeffpatton.net/temp/kitchen.zip

royterr
02-09-2006, 12:13 AM
hello guys,

i am still working on shading and some basic lighting, but it is getting slower and slower..
( iam using GI,FG and Caustics....area light...).

i already used render passes to render shadows seperatly.

is it possible to render this different effecrs(caustics, gi....)seperatly?

does anybody now a link for compositing the scene vis render passes or somethinh like that.

jeremybirn
02-09-2006, 01:20 AM
hello guys,

i am still working on shading and some basic lighting, but it is getting slower and slower..
( iam using GI,FG and Caustics....area light...).

i already used render passes to render shadows seperatly.

is it possible to render this different effecrs(caustics, gi....)seperatly?

does anybody now a link for compositing the scene vis render passes or somethinh like that.

Wow, are you sure you need all that stuff? Most CG in feature films isn made without all that stuff, but still people manage day scenes, night scenes, scary scenes, etc. Maybe for whichever script you're working on you could post what you're doing and discuss what requires all the expensive effects.

Maya 7 has a global illumination pass that splits the GI (including FG and caustics) into a separate file. If your software doesn't have an option like that, you can render twice, once with GI and once without it, and a difference operation will isolate the GI pass for you from that.

-jeremy

aatur
02-09-2006, 01:26 AM
Thanks Jeff for the max version of the scene.....i was facing the same problem :applause:



All the best to everyone :thumbsup:

royterr
02-09-2006, 04:58 PM
"you can render twice, once with GI and once without it, and a difference operation will isolate the GI pass for you from that."

do you mean i should render Gi and FG seperatly? and then overlay them?

i am using maya6.

thanks

Synthesizer
02-09-2006, 05:19 PM
I believe what Jeremy means is to make one pass with everything (ie: GI+FG if you want) and then one with only direct lighting (no GI or FG). Then you can overlay them in Photoshop or whatever with a difference blend mode.

royterr
02-10-2006, 12:08 AM
thanks for the help.

i will try it.

bradw
02-10-2006, 09:54 AM
If you have Maya7, render layers seem the way to go :)
Comp it together in PS/etc afterwards for ultimate tweakability :thumbsup:

royterr
02-13-2006, 12:36 AM
i am rendering with GI an FG.
when rendering i get the warning message over and over again in the output window:

warn : maya_state(): Called on an unexpected ray.

all my objects have shaders assigned to them, belonging to shading groups.
there is no shading groups with no shaders attached to them.
any idea???

Maven
02-13-2006, 04:45 PM
I ran into some problems with the .obj import into 3dsmax (beyond the occasional flipped normal)...the import really borked the window for some reason. Anyway, I made a new window (same size, etc...hope thats ok) and fixed the other smaller import problems.

Here's the 3dsmax (7.5) file if other Max users ran into the same import problems:
www.jeffpatton.net/temp/kitchen.zip (http://www.jeffpatton.net/temp/kitchen.zip)

Thanks Jeff...but I seem to be missing the interior wall with that file.

Hoppergrass
04-27-2006, 12:59 PM
I have just come across this thread today, and thought I give it a go.

This is my first attempt. I used Max8 with BrazilRS. No GI, just a few area lights and some spots. There are not textures, just chalk. There is a bit of PS post work.

(http://imageshack.us]/)http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3614/romanitic9yp.jpg

"MEG glides through the house, precisely following Hank’s
directions to the washroom. She passes through A WELL-APPOINTED
KITCHEN. MEG pauses to glance at A BOTTLE OF VINTAGE MERLOT
sitting unopened on the table. She smiles in anticipation and
continues through the moonlit expanse."

JHV


Woops, sorry I didn't read the rule, so I have reposted in a new thread;)

lotusexige
04-29-2006, 09:46 AM
Just come across this one, I can't seem to render this scene. Works ok in maya, but prman doesn't like that window at all. (see the attached pic)

Its the same for either the obj or ma format - i am using maya7 with rat 6.5.2


ahh well :(

arunurakkadan
08-08-2006, 08:29 AM
hai friends this is a test lighting i have done in maya .with the set i have downloaded from the lighting challenge .. the renders are taken using default maya render..pls have a look at it..comments and critics are most welcome...

Malene
09-12-2006, 04:32 AM
Hey Jeremy,

This is my version of Script #1 for this challenge. How can I improve this image?


http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k37/babysanga/MaleneAllen_Kitchen1.jpg

jeremybirn
09-12-2006, 06:36 PM
Hoppergrass, zildjian, arunurakkadan - Sorry I haven't visited this challenge for a while. I hope all three of you keep going and make more complete images. In a few months we're going to have an "old challenges challenge" where we start a new thread for people to come back to all the oldies like this.

Malene - That's a really nice image. I like your colors. Maybe there's too much blue fill around the cabinet doors, and the apples could get more of a warm colored rim running around them, especially the dark one on the left? The bright edge on the left looks a little awkward to me, if there were a way to tone that down a bit it might help balance things out.

The wineglass needs some work. The refraction seems to be way too much, maybe because the glass interior is missing or not refracting? Also the way the top of the glass squashed down along the bottom edge of the sink seems to connect them too much visually and make the top of the glass too flat, maybe just scaling up the height of the top of the glass would help there.

-jeremy

dany_kurian
09-12-2006, 06:49 PM
Hi all ,

This one come out good , so I thought I’ll post it . Comments are welcome , help me improve . The render was done using maya , mental ray . Thank you .

http://img330.imageshack.us/img330/9550/kitju8.jpg

vtcgman
10-04-2006, 05:13 AM
A little late on this one but I guess better late the never! Here's my scene:
http://rpi.edu/~decelj/cgtalk/kitchenFullold.jpg
It's lit with a spot light outside the window emitting photons. I used GI,FG and Caustics for the wine bottle. I added a shadow light for a better shadow under the fruit bowl. This was rendered in one pass in Maya with mental ray. Cheers!

jeremybirn
10-05-2006, 05:04 AM
vtcgman - Hi. I guess the GI and FG need a lot of work, they are introducing many blotches and artifacts, and I don't see the caustics you mentioned. Try working with one thing at a time (like just GI) with only 1 light until you can get your quality working well, then try for fancier set-ups later.

dany_kurian - My reply is probably too late to do much good, but that image needs more variety in shading because it looks very flat now. Look at the floor for example: there's no shadows or occlusion under the chair, and the same flat tone continues from the counter to the sunbeam where it really should be a gradient.

-jeremy

vtcgman
10-07-2006, 07:20 PM
Here's an updated image:
http://rpi.edu/~decelj/cgtalk/kitchenFull_2.jpg
I worked a lot on the GI and FG to remove the artifacting, though there is still some. I also worked to get some caustics out of the bottle but they are not very visable.

Leotril
10-08-2006, 02:02 AM
Hello Everybody..

This is what i got so far..
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/3739/4script4fp8.jpg
I wanted that look a bit noirish like Sin City :) .. I use 2 area lights for this and one pointlight wich is cheatin the sun if u can tell .. is reflected from the inside on the sort of glass material i got .. the render only take 30 secs !! ill probably add some Raytracing next..

Cheers

SneakyBiscuit
10-13-2006, 09:17 AM
Posted into a seperate thread..

oxygencube
10-22-2006, 03:39 AM
Jeremy,
Thanks for the models. I took out the fruit and bottle due to the lack of time. I am using this scene for my lighting and rendering class. I am working on my occlusion pass at the moment but could use some feedback. Thanks
-oxy-

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3231/progress03gp8.jpg

oxygencube
10-23-2006, 06:34 AM
Hey all. I am having a major problem with the shadow and spec passes with this file. Here is what I am getting, it looks like the geomerty is not interacting with the light correctly. In the post above everything looks correct but when I render out in passes the shadow is incorrect. Any help would be great!

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5778/shadowcopycl5.jpg
Thanks Oxy

oxygencube
10-25-2006, 09:05 AM
Ok, well I am a noob at render layers and I didn't understand compleatly how shadow passes work. Here is my latest image. Composited in Shake. I am now gonna learn how to render seprate light passes. Jeremy I would love some comments and suggestions. I am currently missing a reflection pass as I am still learning how to render them out. Thanks again
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9163/roomlv3.jpg

PDuff
10-31-2006, 07:54 PM
I know this is a very old challenge, but I decided to try it out anyway. Everything in here is Maya's lambert 1 shader. I was just wondering if anyone could critique the lighting and composition.

Edit: I just realized I lost alot of quality from FCheck to here. Can anyone tell me how I can prevent that in the future?

Thanks.

http://pduff12787.googlepages.com/ik.jpg

jeremybirn
11-01-2006, 09:39 AM
oxygencube - I don't know why you need a shadow pass or what you're planning to do with it, but that might be correct. Just about all of your scene is in shadow from one light or another (for example, the whole interior is in shadow for the lights outside the window, except for one little sunbeam area.) When you reach whatever point where you need a separate shadow pass, try rendering the shadow pass out for only 1 light at a time, and then using it to darken the specific lighting pass it goes with.

Nice scene overall. Something's funny with the dark/light areas on the base-board where the counter comes up the back wall, and a few areas go unnaturally dark.

PDuff - Nice start. Overall good tones and layout. The tops of some of the cabinet doors shouldn't go so bright, I think you were trying to use no shadows on a fill light when you really wanted very soft shadows. Usually in a night scene there are more little glints and kicks of light, but I guess moving some of the surfaces away from pure lambert would help with that.

-jeremy

wdaniel
11-08-2006, 12:26 AM
hey i just found this thread because im researching lighting and thought what the hell lets try it. im in, even though ive never commited to a challang yet but ill try again.



w..................................

wdaniel
11-10-2006, 02:06 AM
do i feal like an idiot this one has been over for a year now.guess im not in.

w............

Sciortino
11-11-2006, 12:07 AM
On the contrary. They're open indefinitely (I think). So if you want to take a crack at it, by all means do.
-Paul

YourDaftPunk
11-18-2006, 05:43 PM
do i feal like an idiot this one has been over for a year now.guess im not in.
Come on man! I just did the fruitbowl- that's even older! And as for this one, I just did the lighting and have started on the textures in my spare time:

http://www.shawnlipowski.com/forumFiles/room_in_progress_01.jpg

-shawn

jeremybirn
01-21-2007, 05:30 PM
This thread is being closed now. Congratulations for all your great work!

-jeremy