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Dmon
12-08-2002, 11:46 PM
This is my very first work in poser 4 (no updates/addons) ,45 mins including post work , I am a VB prof, but I got into 3D stuff a small while ago...so don't expect a fantastic...just simple :)

postwork using Photoshop 7.0 (also simplestuff)

I need redirections and/or critiques...:beer:

yobarman
12-09-2002, 12:10 AM
booo!! POSER 4 is not a 3d program! it's like a VB kid downloading a Bas file or module..

start off with a real modeling program and take learn from there

Joril
12-09-2002, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by Dmon
This is ... very ... simple


Indeed.
I'm pretty sure everyone could make that.

Dmon
12-09-2002, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by Joril
I'm pretty sure everyone could make that.

Yeah, but everyone had a first time, eh?

slayerment
12-09-2002, 01:16 AM
i dont like the model or ur cloud filter. it also looks like it was cut out in photoshop with the magicwand. sorry, just my opinion

Quandary One12
12-09-2002, 01:48 AM
i'm sorry but i think he did a good job for his first time, we all had to start some where.

loganx3d
12-09-2002, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by Quandary One12
i'm sorry but i think he did a good job for his first time, we all had to start some where. The very first time I made something in 3D, it was crap. I would expect the same from everyone. So I guess my question is, why bother posting it online, let alone trying to elicit responses from (some) professionals in 3D?

Dmon
12-09-2002, 02:21 AM
Originally posted by loganx3d
...why bother posting it online, let alone trying to elicit responses from (some) professionals in 3D?

Well, Actually this is not the point...

When I decedied to get into this...I really found myself lost in this HUGE world, didn't know what program to use, how to start...

So, I found this so usefull to me, I mean...all the openions from professionals are usefull, although most of them is somehow HARSH, but I really appreciate ALL the openions...


that's it :)

yobarman
12-09-2002, 03:21 AM
this is the first thing i made in 3d when i was 15.. (http://members.tripod.com/Barman108/barfight.jpg)


too bad i still suck though :p

Pants01
12-09-2002, 03:47 AM
I never posted anything that I did when I just started out, I knew it sucked balls. At the level you're at, you should stick to doing lots of tutorials cause other people don't have the time to help you at your level. It's like if someone asked you how to start doing 3d when they haven't learned how to turn on a computer. Start posting stuff after you've done at least 50 good tutorials... :thumbsup:

Wulffaoa
12-09-2002, 03:49 AM
First I would recommend you learning to model with a true 3D package as well - Poser is nice I suppose, since just about anyone can create a nice figure rather quickly, but you really never learn anything - just slap together what's already there and you're finished.

I've never used it personally, but I've heard good things about wings3D (www.wings3d.com). It's a free polygon modeler. Sounds like a good starting point to me. Learn the tools well, read/do tutorials, etc.

I would suggest starting with inorganic objects to really learn the modeling process...start with simple objects, work your way to complex objects...then get into doing characters/organic.

wgreenlee1
12-09-2002, 04:14 AM
Take it to this place they will love it!!!! (http://www.renderosity.com/index.ez)

Lukashi
12-09-2002, 05:27 AM
Heres the thing Dmon.
Most people here dont really like poser cause it doenst take any skills, try a package like 3ds max, maya or lightwave.
You first need to start with basics before going into characters

Flog
12-09-2002, 06:35 AM
1st off Poser is a powerful tool when used right. It can be a shortcut, in can be a help but never ever use it as a crutch or your only outlet for character creation. Go to www.renderosity.com they will appreciate it more there than here.

Below are some good examples of using Poser and also follow the below links for more. See what you can really do with it.

http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=91004&Start=1&Sectionid=0&MostWanted=Yes

http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=13150&Start=19&Sectionid=0&MostWanted=Yes

But never limit yourself. You can do good things with Poser but again don't let it be your crutch, use other tools and see as many as you can learn.
Animation Master is an easy one to learn, powerful and cheap as well. There is a whole slew of freeware to try. So keep up the good work. Unlock whatever you have in your hands and push it to the MAX.

And if anyone thinks Poser sucks then thats fine but also try to make pictures like these guys and then you can say it sucks

Keep working, have fun with 3d and don't let anyone discourage you. And keep learning. Learn all you can.

Flog
12-09-2002, 06:35 AM
Here is another one

<<multiple attachments are NOT allowed in the gallery>>

Flog
12-09-2002, 06:37 AM
last one
Oh and these were done with Poser and Bryce and rendered in Bryce. I believe he used a little Lightwave as well.

So the tool can be used. Anyone want to critique these pictures?

The characters are all Poser characters. That lady head thingy smoking the cigarette is actually DAZ 3d's Victoria model.

<<multiple attachments are NOT allowed in the gallery>>

smfjersey
12-09-2002, 06:37 AM
Here come the flames

wgreenlee1
12-09-2002, 07:30 AM
Yep!
Those are great.
But let me ask you this Mr.Flog.
Would you hold these poser clones in the same regard next to a fully modeled,rigged scene by the artist?

Oh wait let me guess.
Youre one of these that looks at the end result right?
What went into them makes no differance?
If O'Keeffe was cut and pasting Vangoghs and Monets into her paintings that wouldve made her just as great?
DOnt give us that other line about "Well he worked hours and hours on thoses Morphs..."
Give me a break.

Here,you want to see 3D art at its best check this out!3D art this way-> (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31369)

SheepFactory
12-09-2002, 07:46 AM
Poser is good for testing out mocap files and when doing animatronics.

for everything else there is XSI :)


Dmon your render doesnt show any skill whatsoever , its a poser model with a cloud background which probably took 3 minutes to make. i am not trying to be harsh , i am just stating the facts here. I suggest you sit down and read a couple of books about composition , framing , lighting , and so on.
no one knows these stuff by default you just have to be patient and learn.

best of luck

Ali

Flog
12-09-2002, 03:01 PM
But let me ask you this Mr.Flog.Would you hold these poser clones in the same regard next to a fully modeled,rigged scene by the artist?

On the above artist, I do hold him in high esteem. Again I look at the end product. For him to produce those pictures is awesome. He made what is a Bryce scene, not look like a Bryce scene. The lighting and compositing is wonderful, and the story is good. I mean he produced a lot with what he had. I do look at the end result. He just didn't cut them out, he UV mapped them, and textured them. So what if started with a base, he did a good job with what he had. Similiar to a sculpture using an armature or something to give you the basic shape. You can't deny that artists skills. I think the end result is what counts. Whatever means. And he does also model on his own

I was just mentioning to him to the one who created the post, if he is going to use Poser then use it well and do not stop there, try other progs and such. Just keep working.

And to me an artist is an artist, whether he takes a snap shot with his camera(which involves alot of good lighting and knowing how to capture a moment) to painting. From digital to traditional. From a 3d artist to a 2d photoshop guru who uses Poser as the base.

Point is I don't care how they do it, I'm interested in the end result. Lighting, style, composition, story, texturing etc. Not how they got there. And you got to admit that guy had some nice pictures. I wish there was still one up on this post. I'll put the link up later.
http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=jjsmlee

Quandary One12
12-11-2002, 06:36 AM
sorry about the timing had a lot of work to do. ok as to what your all saying i think your all ass #$$^ you should be trying to help him find apps to use and links to tuts not talking tash to him. I remember playing around in photoshop years ago not knowing a thing but still loving it. It's not about what you make it's about the fun you have making it.

BiTMAP
12-11-2002, 06:47 AM
what I find funny is that rhino is level 1 modeling and poser/blender is level 2 and max never is touched even though we have it, and maya is gonna be level 3.... pft I rather just use max all the way through since its all I seem to be able to use...

Dmon
12-12-2002, 11:23 PM
OK guys...

With all the meanings..it really sucks ;)

I really would like to thank all the guys posted and/or voted at this thread... I don't want to mention names,'cause I'm afraid I may forget someone, but ALL of you was a great help to me...thanks:beer:

I got 3dmax 5 now !! finally I decided :bounce:

I will read the whole user's manual, tutorials.... I will be back at the age of 60 :scream:

Again...thank U all..:beer:

noorlander
12-13-2002, 12:34 AM
As I see it, this is an open forum... and everyone have a right to post here, they mention befor that you should not interrupt professionals, but how much time does it take to see a "bad" image and then go on to the next... you don't have to read all postings in a thread... so the professionals can decide by them self if they will help him or not. Maybe there is other newbies that can learn him a thing or two...

So to all you newbies out there don't be affraid to show what you are doing... there are some good souls out here that are willling to help you... maybe post it in WIP

smfjersey
12-13-2002, 01:55 AM
WOW! Dmon I cant tell you how cool it is that you tool all this HARSH crit. and turned it into something good. It says something for your charactor. Drive on with that MAX thing and keep posting. You'll most likely find much better responses with a more respected piece of software. I'll certainl;y do all I can to help. You took your licks.

eLm0
12-13-2002, 03:11 AM
u got max5 gr8 i'm not to much of a flamer but yeh we all start somewhere i think u started in the wrong place but its all good hehe post some of your max stuff but stick to the WIP board heh keep it up there is plenty room for programer\3d people out there.:thumbsup:

Kurtzar
12-13-2002, 11:27 AM
You just got 5 stars from me for your attitude. Juist work hard and all will be great in a short time. It will be easier than you think. Good luck.:beer:

kyphur
12-13-2002, 03:59 PM
I personally don't see all the fuss. If someone has drive and ambition to do something then they should go for it and try to learn along the way. People beginning 3D sometimes don't know where to start nor do they have the funds to do so.

Also, a lot of studios only care about the "end result" and not how it's done. That's why certain places hire people who have never touched the software and then train them how so they can do it in a professional environment. Pixar has high regards for 2D animators and will hire them and teach them the 3D if they show promise. If he can capture mood, emotion and movement with a peice of crap software imagine what he would be able to do with a high quality production pipeline?

Also I don't believe that everyone on this forum is a Professional. I personally think that only about 25 % or less are actually employed doing 3D or VFX that visit this forum. A lot of the people here are students and entusiasts who come here and are not yet professionals. I think professionals would have been a bit more less destructive in this post and more constructive in their critiques.

But that's just my opinion.


Kyph

kyphur
12-13-2002, 04:26 PM
Technical:

Here hair is really shiny and should be toned down a bit. If you can, bump up the antialiasing since I can see some major jaggies along her bikini. I'm thinking the jaggies on her outline are from the cutout in photoshop since I don't see them along the insides of her leg. That also brings me to see that you didn't cut out the area between her legs nor along the inside of her left arm. There's a weird deformation with her right armpit and looks like some interpenetration error with her tricep going through her latissimus dorsi or there's just something really wrong with it.

Mood and Pose:

The contraposto in her hips is nice but not reflected in her shoulders since they're pretty much completly horizontal. Put a tilt in there and put the arms in a better position. It's cool that you tried to vary the finger's positions but they still look static and her left hand looks as if it's got kung-fu grip going on. The hair looks really flat, try to liven it up a bit, I don't know what options you have in poser but it just looks like strips of geometry with a simple shader slapped on. Lose the cloud background and add something else. I just don't see some standard looking girl in a bikini walking through clouds, I see an angel, goddess, something else besides a beach bunny doing something like that.


As for software:

I do frown down upon using something that uses a bunch of ready-mades but I also see the use for them for a beginner. I think they can hamper creative flow and keep your skill level down. I also think this goes for the same with textures for sell on the web and other similar things. It's quite easy to go out and find the textures yourself, import them into photoshop and fix them up yourself. It also increases your skill range if you just do them yourself and/or by hand when applicable. It also doesn't hurt for shaders and everything else that's 3D to just do it yourself. That way you have a basic understanding of how things are done and what you can do to eliviate some problems further down the pipeline in a production environment with whatever you're doing.

Anyways, hope I was helpful.

sampi
12-13-2002, 09:09 PM
good luck Dmon
:applause:

Dmon
12-15-2002, 01:44 AM
Hi again buddys,


noorlander: I totally agree, fear has no place in CG:)

smfjersey: Thank you so much for your great words, and I have no doubt that you will help, and thanks in advance for it ;)

eLm0: Offcourse... the WIP is one of the most usefull forums in CGTALK...I will post as soon as I do something....thank you:)

Kurtzar: I really appretiate your stars, thank you... I will hang them in my sky, sorry I mean in my room... :D

kyphur: But this is exactly my openion too :) ...wow man, this post surely got you tired... I read it 5 times!!! I liked the 'Mood and Pose' section... logical, quite logical...thank you so much...

you all were a HUGE help...

and next time, I will post something worth this kinda help (Or at least, I will THINK it does)

BTW: The Soft selection really rocks :buttrock:

odin
12-16-2002, 10:22 AM
is that melting chocolate on her head ... or peanut butter ???:surprised

Bobski
12-16-2002, 10:55 AM
C'mon fellas modelling semi naked chics is about as orignal as modelling ur bedroom..
Its not the software thats the problem its the lack of imagination of the folks using it.
Here u have the tools and the means to literally create anything u can imagine, so put the jizz mags away and get on with it.

Dmon
12-16-2002, 10:25 PM
Odin, Bobski:c'mon guys, you could read all the posts of the thread, thanks for your preciouse opinions.. :)

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