CINEMA 4D released for Intel-Based Mac

[JIII]

Sweet, now all I need is a new mac :-)

-John

[williamsburroughs]

Awesome news! I love knowing that the kit I believe in, believes in building for the future! Keep up the great work Maxon!:bowdown:

[alexentremont]

Impressive move! Faster than Apple for its own pro applications...

[michaeli]

Wow, another No.1 world record. :bounce:

Congratulations Maxon, you rock! :thumbsup:

[enygma]

Impressive move! Faster than Apple for its own pro applications...
If the application didn't have major Altivec optimizations, then yes, it would have been faster. From what I hear, porting Altivec code over to SSE2 isn't a trivial task, and since Apple pro applications take huge advantages of Altivec, it probably took a bit of effort for Apples engineers to port their apps over.

[TopherMartini]

If the application didn't have major Altivec optimizations, then yes, it would have been faster. From what I hear, porting Altivec code over to SSE2 isn't a trivial task, and since Apple pro applications take huge advantages of Altivec, it probably took a bit of effort for Apples engineers to port their apps over.
For any Mac developers out there, the Accelerate Framework (http://developer.apple.com/performance/accelerateframework.html) is a great resource for supporting vector operations on both PowerPC and Intel platforms for Mac OS X.

[Totyo]

I'm not a Modo fan.. but Modo was the Application that Steve Jobs use for his demo of the Mactel...
I'm not a big fan of Modo, but if I'm not wrong, Modo is a 3D professional graphic software ;)

[williamsburroughs]

I'm not a Modo fan.. but Modo was the Application that Steve Jobs use for his demo of the Mactel...
I'm not a big fan of Modo, but if I'm not wrong, Modo is a 3D professional graphic software ;)

Yep, modo and Cinema 4D have been built from the ground up to take advantage of the latest hardware and Operating Systems out there...They really have their fingers on the pulse of our evolving tech landscape. Bring on the 64bit MacTel Vista revolution. :)

[unseenthings]

I'm not a Modo fan.. but Modo was the Application that Steve Jobs use for his demo of the Mactel...
I'm not a big fan of Modo, but if I'm not wrong, Modo is a 3D professional graphic software ;)

And if I'm not wrong I just checked the luxology homepage, and I don't see anything about that version of Modo being "available" -- there's a difference between "here, look at this test version of software" and "here, here's the application for people to use" :)

[michaeli]

I'm not a Modo fan.. but Modo was the Application that Steve Jobs use for his demo of the Mactel...
I'm not a big fan of Modo, but if I'm not wrong, Modo is a 3D professional graphic software ;)

Yeah, Steve Jobs used modo for demo, but a beta version modo, and Intel-Mac modo is still in beta till now.

[michaeli]

sorry for double post.

[Beamtracer]

Once again, it is Maxon and Luxology who are leading the pack for Mac development.

There are some other software developers who are laggards and are slow to develop new things, but I won't mention them here. ;)

[almux]

Hello everyone,

Nice Maxon is so swift! :applause:
...Now... next comes Maya... It will come... :wavey:
I just received this post 2 or 3 days ago from Alias dev. team:

Hi,

At the moment the new Apple machines are unqualified hardware. We have to make some tests before we can say something about it.
The good news is that it looks like Maya is running very well on this machines. http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=313128

You can check this under support on www.alias.com when we finished the tests.

Kind regards

Can't wait these tests are done... and the UB version fixed... :love:
See: cgsociety.org is a reference!!

[alexentremont]

At the moment the new Apple machines are unqualified hardware. We have to make some tests before we can say something about it.
The good news is that it looks like Maya is running very well on this machines. http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=313128

Sorry, but I don't see anything in this answer from Alias that says that Maya UB is close to finished, or even under development! All it says is that they are testing Maya OS X under Rosetta.

[almux]

Sorry, but I don't see anything in this answer from Alias that says that Maya UB is close to finished, or even under development! All it says is that they are testing Maya OS X under Rosetta.

Right, right... but ... hush...... Don't you know that industries have a constant watch over forums ???!!! This is a way to stimulate some good will.. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
So let's show HOW MUCH WE ARE ALL VERY CONFIDENT in Alias (Autodesk)'s efforts to ssoooon port Maya to UB! :bounce:

( :thumbsup: this is marketing! He! He!)

[Srek]

Right, right... but ... hush...... Don't you know that industries have a constant watch over forums ???!!! This is a way to stimulate some good will..

And here i was, thinking that religious topics are a nono on CG Talk :twisted:


Cheers
Björn

[almux]

:argh: Kniack! Kniack! :wise:
Gosh... I'm betraied :banghead:

[ThirdEye]

/me shakes head violently

[Beamtracer]

This makes CINEMA 4D not only the first 3D application, but also the first professional graphics application, available in a universal binary version
Srek, can you tell us more about how Maxon managed to achieve this so quickly?

I'd like to know how Maxon has C4D already running on Mac Intel hardware, when other software vendors are having difficulty with it.

Other software vendors seem to be bogged down with CodeWarrior, which they use to compile their applications. Did Maxon make an early switch to the Xcode compiler? Did this migration begin before Apple's Intel announcement at the Developers Conference last year? I seem to remember Apple was encouraging developers to switch to Xcode before the Intel announcement was made.

[Srek]

The first adapted Plugins for the Universal Binary version of CINEMA 4d 9.5 have just become available
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=315973

Big thanks to Arndt :)

Cheers
Björn

[jbradley]

Srek, can you tell us more about how Maxon managed to achieve this so quickly?

I'd like to know how Maxon has C4D already running on Mac Intel hardware, when other software vendors are having difficulty with it.

Other software vendors seem to be bogged down with CodeWarrior, which they use to compile their applications. Did Maxon make an early switch to the Xcode compiler? Did this migration begin before Apple's Intel announcement at the Developers Conference last year? I seem to remember Apple was encouraging developers to switch to Xcode before the Intel announcement was made.

It's not a difficulty issue. It's relatively easy to compile a universal binary and switch from CodeWarrior to XCode. It's not this big production like people make it to be.

The new Mac isn't a production proven platform yet. I don't see how just having support for the new Macs makes this some special event.

Like any 3d production artist is going to out and buy a dual core iMac to be my 3d production machine. Sure. :P

Maxxon's comparisons are also flawed, so it really isn't this grandioso thing. The dual CPU G5s are still faster in rendering than the single dual core intel processors. Plus, working in the application is still going to be identical across a dual cpu G5 and a dual core Intel.

I'll take my dual G5 with about 20% faster rendering time than a single dual-core Intel processor any day.

[Srek]

It's not a difficulty issue. It's relatively easy to A) make a universal binary and B) switch from CodeWarrior to XCode - which is a switch from compilers (again, not this big production like people make it to be).
Mabye tell this to Adobe, seems it's not that easy for them ;)

This might not be a big issue with a few thousand lines of codes but once this goes into the millions and the code is heavily using multithreading it becomes a problem.

Rendering is still up in the air, and generally speaking, a dual CPU machine is still going to render faster than a dual core for many parts of the rendering pipeline.
I haven't encountered this yet, on the contrary. So far all dual core systems i checked were at least as effective as real dual processor systems. With Dual factors of about 1.87 they are among the most efficent dual setups.

Cheers
Björn

[jbradley]

Mabye tell this to Adobe, seems it's not that easy for them ;)

This might not be a big issue with a few thousand lines of codes but once this goes into the millions and the code is heavily using multithreading it becomes a problem.

Not necessarily. It's all about how the code was organized in the first place through CodeWarrior. You could feasibly only have to change a few classes, or a few thousand. It's a relative to the the way the programmers structured the application in the first place.

In the case of Adobe, they've been around a heck of a lot longer, and their code base is arguably 100 times larger than say, Cinema4d. It's also tied into multiple applications, not just one. Code is shared among software programs. This makes it a task that'll take much longer to do.

I haven't encountered this yet, on the contrary. So far all dual core systems i checked were at least as effective as real dual processor systems. With Dual factors of about 1.87 they are among the most efficent dual setups.

I've found so far that rendering in general is still just a touch slower on a dual core single processor machine from a pure dual CPU machine - across any operating system. I don't particularly find that useful at the time being to warrant investment in hardware and software upgrades for something that's generally the same. That's why i stated that the release, although great news for those looking to a new system from something 3 years old or more, isn't anything earth shattering.

For those of us that have new high end systems from the past 2 years, there's no real benefit.

Still, I don't want to down play the news - it is good news that Maxxon is constantly keeping up with the latest and greatest hardware that Apple has to offer.

[alexentremont]

and their code base is arguably 100 times larger than say, Cinema4d.

What do you mean exactly? That Adobe applications for the Mac have a total number of code lines 100 times larger than Cinema 4D???? I certainly wouldn't bet...
I'm not a Cinema4D user (I use Maya) but I still find it amazing that Maxon was able to have a UB version of Cinema 4D out of the door so quickly!

[Srek]

In the case of Adobe, they've been around a heck of a lot longer, and their code base is arguably 100 times larger than say, Cinema4d.
I would be surprised if any Adobe product needs anywhere near a quarter of a billion lines of code.

Cheers
Björn

[jbradley]

Ack! I added an extra zero to that post. Sorry about that.

So, if you're math is right, Cinema4d is about 2.5 m. lines of code - that's as many as the whole of OS Xs core, by the way.

I recall hearing that Photoshop was somewhere in the 20m ballpark - which would be somewhere near 10x as much. Also, from what I've understood, Photoshop shares code among a few different products, so it's not like a single move can be made with one product without possibly affecting others.

Adobe has a very different programming situation than say, a company like Maxxon.

[lllab]

"Maxxon's comparisons are also flawed, so it really isn't this grandioso thing. The dual CPU G5s are still faster in rendering than the single dual core intel processors. Plus, working in the application is still going to be identical across a dual cpu G5 and a dual core Intel."

..are u crazy? a intel dualcore has a cinebench of 600+ a imac g5 has maybe 300. and yes thats rendering!your g5 is never faster, dream on...

by the way thats the speed of a dualxeon for an imac or an macbook-not bad at all. those crazy macfans dont want to believe steve j. made a good job;-)

cheers
stefan

[Per-Anders]

hey guys, take it easy. he's just voicing his oppinion using the knowledge he has to hand, lets not get angry about it. obviously he can't know anything about how difficult/easy it was for Maxon to do this as he doesn't work within/for Maxon. and it looks like he's basing it not on experience but conjecture (which of course anyone is free to do, though i wouldn't go so far as to take the value of conjecture over actual experience and claim inflation of results).

btw srek, which version of billion are we talking here? the traditional million million, or the modern/american thousand million.

[KreatorOvWorldz]

Maya is a Mach-O application on OS X, which mean that at some point Alias moved to XCode for development. If thats the case, making Maya a universal binary should be fairly straightforward as apps developed using XCode can be converted to UB with the least amount of rewriting.

[Beamtracer]

The dual CPU G5s are still faster in rendering than the single dual core intel processors.
....
I'll take my dual G5 with about 20% faster rendering time than a single dual-core Intel processor any day.
..are u crazy? a intel dualcore has a cinebench of 600+ a imac g5 has maybe 300. and yes thats rendering!your g5 is never faster, dream on...
I agree with jbradley's original statement that the twin dual-core G5 Powermacs are still the fastest machines. Realworld benchmarks consistently show it to be as good or better than its competition. These machines are powered by 4 cores, which helps.

Back to the topic of Maxon....

[Srek]

btw srek, which version of billion are we talking here? the traditional million million, or the modern/american thousand million.
Thousand Millions or what is called a milliarde in germany. In germany a Billion would usualy be a million million but i would only use that when writing in german.

jbradly: i have no idea how Adobe organizes development and how / if they share source between apps. I know that i.e. Photoshop and AE are developed by independent teams. 20 Million lines of code seems a bit much to me though.

Cheers
Björn

[Lovas]

Congrats to Maxon for the prompt action. Being one step ahead of the competition, as usual...:thumbsup:

[stew]

Maya is a Mach-O application on OS X, which mean that at some point Alias moved to XCode for development.
Not necessarily. CodeWarrior can also produce MachO binaries.

[jbradley]

hey guys, take it easy. he's just voicing his oppinion using the knowledge he has to hand, lets not get angry about it. obviously he can't know anything about how difficult/easy it was for Maxon to do this as he doesn't work within/for Maxon. and it looks like he's basing it not on experience but conjecture (which of course anyone is free to do, though i wouldn't go so far as to take the value of conjecture over actual experience and claim inflation of results).

:) Definitely voicing opinion with the knowledge I have at hand. How difficult it can be to do is based on a large number of variables. One of them is how long the code has been around and the development environment it's in. Based on the last few releases of Cinema4d that I've read about, like I said it's no major hurdle that they were able to get a UB version of their software out. They've always been keeping up with the hardware and operating system changes - much more so than programs like Photoshop (as an example).


Not necessarily. CodeWarrior can also produce MachO binaries.

You're right, it can. But based on my experience, that's usually because the code base came from a pre-machO environment (OS 9 and earlier) and the application is compiled against CarbonLib.

Personally, I doubt that they're using CodeWarrior. It's more likely than not that Maya is compiled with XCode and gcc. They worked very closely with Apple while new versions of OS X and the developer tools were being developed and there were some discussions at the developer conferences that XCode was being used.

That said, even though Alias could feasibly create a UB version of their software, it's not like them to do that. It's more likely that they'd create a specific version for the Intel platform, rather than a bloated version that can run on both platforms.

Anyway, that's besides the point of the thread.

Congrats Maxxon.

[Srek]

The UB version available for download now also includes Net Renderer as well as several languages.
Cheers
Björn

[chadtheartist]

Sorry for detracting from the thread a bit, but I was curious to know if Bodypaint was UB ready too?

[Srek]

Sorry for detracting from the thread a bit, but I was curious to know if Bodypaint was UB ready too?
The module version in CINEMA yes, the standalone version is currently not available as UB

Cheers
Björn

[alexentremont]

Maya is a Mach-O application on OS X, which mean that at some point Alias moved to XCode for development.

Not necessarily. CodeWarrior can also produce MachO binaries.

From the Maya OS X qualification page (http://www.alias.com/eng/support/maya/qualified_hardware/QUAL/maya_70_osx.html):

Compiler Information:
Built on: Mac OSX 10.3.5
Compiler: XCode 1.5 gcc 3.3 (build 1666)

[stew]

Compiler Information:
Built on: Mac OSX 10.3.5
Compiler: XCode 1.5 gcc 3.3 (build 1666)
Those poor engineers. I hope for them that they have upgraded to gcc 4, version 3.3 was terribly slow.

[almux]

Maya is a Mach-O application on OS X, which mean that at some point Alias moved to XCode for development. If thats the case, making Maya a universal binary should be fairly straightforward as apps developed using XCode can be converted to UB with the least amount of rewriting.

Probably things change on day to day basis... but few weeks ago an Alias liable answered to my question:
" At the moment the new Apple machines are unqualified hardware. We have to make some tests before we can say something about it.
The good news is that it looks like Maya is running very well on this machines. http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=313128 " (I already sent this in another thread)
So "when" the porting of Maya will be preformed is still a wonder...

[jimlock]

excuse me if i'm wrong, but i thought we could download the universal binary and patch it on our C4D 9.5
now there seems to be nothing but a text about the binary..
is this because the binary is now included in the 9.5x or later updates??

[Srek]

A seperate 9.5 UB is no longer available. It has been replaced by the free 9.6 updater that includes the UB and old version.
Cheers
Björn

[jimlock]

thanks Björn..

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