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Stygian
12-08-2002, 08:57 PM
Ok I've noticed posts from alot of newcomers lately (myself being one of them) , And I was wondering if the other newbies would be interested in all working on the same Tutorial at the same time that way we could help each other if one of us is having difficulty with one aspect of the tutorial . There seem to be quite a few of us doing the Joan of arc tutorial currently so what do you say we start a new thread and go through it together ? :shrug:

Xilica
12-08-2002, 10:35 PM
get there aim/icq/email and go for it

Corn Dog
12-08-2002, 11:32 PM
Good idea, I'ld participate but work is asking for overtime theses days :( $$$$$$$ :)

Stygian
12-09-2002, 04:53 PM
:applause: cool lets see if we can get about 2 more that I know are doing this tutorial and we'll start the first unofficial CGtalk newbie course .
:bounce:

Stygian
12-09-2002, 07:30 PM
Ok here is the link to the tutorial that we are working on .
http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/joanofarc/joanmenu.asp

If one you more experienced members see us doing things the wrong way or telling each other to do things the wrong way please correct us.

****************************************

Page : 1

This guy just barely mentions this part and it seems to be what most of us had problems with.
http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/joanofarc/images/image01.jpeg

settings up the reference planes :eek:

The way I did this is as follows,

1)click the plane button on your objects tab> click and drag in the "front" viewport to create a plane > then on the right in the parameters rollout set the Height and width of the plane both to 512 (the height and width of the reference image).
2) Now with that plane still selected open the materials editor ( keyboard "M") select an empty sample slot at the top then go down to the "map" rollout. click the none to the right of where it says diffuse then double click bitmap when the next window opens this will let you browse to and select "face.gif" which you downloaded from the tutorial page. This will now show the frontal image wrapped around the sphere in the first sample slot.
http://comppuccino.com/face.gif

3) Now click the apply material to object buton ( the one with sphere with the arrow pointing to the cube I think ) then make sure that the show in viewport button is clicked thats the little checkered cube.


As long as your viewport is set to show smooth+highlights you should now see your reference plane . Repeate the steps above in the left viewport using the profil.gif the position your references where you want them .

Stygian
12-10-2002, 06:07 AM
OK this is how far I got after work today.

How are you guys doing with the tutorial ?http://comppuccino.com/joan01.gif
:wip: well I guess we'll see what tomorrow brings

omarello
12-10-2002, 01:29 PM
hey i wanna join this but u have to wait for me after i get back from my christmas break.....

i will catch up with u guys after xmas, please dont let this thread die....

this is really cool

Jokafex
12-10-2002, 03:58 PM
I'm with it. I've been wanting to do this tut for a long time.

Stygian
12-10-2002, 04:39 PM
Omarello : yeah we'll still be here have a good holiday .

Jokafex: did you lose your other login when they rolled back the server ? I couldn't find ya in the member list . any way glad to see ya back .:wavey:

Jokafex
12-10-2002, 05:53 PM
Oh, that's what happened. I was wondering why the forumz didn't recognize me.

omarello
12-11-2002, 02:06 PM
hey stygian can u post a wireframe of the legs u have so far....
hehe i just wanna make sure that i started right, cause i already did this part of the tut, and wanna check if my wireframes match, cause i think there is somthing wrong with my model.

Stygian
12-11-2002, 07:16 PM
here ya go Omar there are still a few places in the wireframe that I have to clean up . This is the first time I've attemtped anything even close to humanoid so be gentle .


http://comppuccino.com/joan_legs_wireframe.gif
http://comppuccino.com/joan_legs_wireframe_smooth.gif :wip:

Reli
12-11-2002, 08:35 PM
Ok since we're all doing the same tutorial (which i might add is very well done). Here's my entry, tell me what cha think.

lockard666
12-11-2002, 09:16 PM
i'm REALLY new to CG... but this sounds like a great learning experience... so, where do i find this tuitorial?... i'll probably just follow the thread & read along... but you'll probably hear from me occasionally

Reli
12-11-2002, 09:19 PM
Here's the link http://www.3dtotal.com/ and goto free stuff> tutorials and there is a tutorial for modeling the Joan of Arc. It's a really good tutorial for us noobs who can't make a human figure. Enjoy.

lockard666
12-11-2002, 09:37 PM
cool, thanks reli!... it's on my favorites list... i'll try to keep up... like i said, i'm REALLY new to CG of any kind(new, as in, 2 weeks new!)... how far along is everybody on this thing?... thanx again.

3D Bandit
12-11-2002, 10:08 PM
Include me......I'm going to get started tonight.....I will read the rest of the thread and see where you guys are up to.....

JBruckner
12-12-2002, 12:13 AM
This is very cool, Ill particpate in the next round.

Stygian
12-12-2002, 01:22 AM
all right !!! now this is what I wanted to see. Has anyone hit any snags yet? I had trouble getting the butt the right shape and now it looks like the boob is going to be about as difficult.

Reli
12-12-2002, 02:20 AM
The snag I run into is when I extrude the torso up, the edge in the middle of the mesh shoots off into a diagonal direction. It's not really a snag, just a real pain in the ass to fix for every extrusion.

Stygian
12-12-2002, 02:46 AM
yeah I hit that too ... Unless you completely level that top poly first then adjust the verts after of course you have to push the verts around anyway so .....:shrug:

BlazeSquall
12-12-2002, 03:19 AM
This is an extremely great idea...

Maybe if we keep it up we can get it sticky'ed.

I'll start now and catch up.

Stroker
12-12-2002, 03:21 AM
I started mine some time ago. Been working on it on-and-off as the mood strikes me.

For this, I really didn't care for working with the reference pics. So, I decided to go with splines.

I tossed both pics into PS. Copied one over to the other and arranged them to taste. De-Saturate. Invert. Levels. Cut and paste into an Alpha channel. Load the selection. Make Path from Selection. Export to an AI file. Open Max and Import the AI file. Move, rotate, and scale into place. Tada. Nice splines to work with as a reference.

I had some problems getting her torso just right. After a few false starts, I finally got it. I didn't find her breasts too difficult. Feet could stand some work.

Here she is all mirrored and smoothed. I even made my reference splines renderable (she's got a third leg). Not sure if/when I'll put more time into her.

Troub
12-12-2002, 06:45 AM
hey fellas, :wavey:
this is just a great idea, and that tut is one of the best i ever did see.
thanks stroker for that little tut on how to convert to path.

So i'm in.
Played with that tut some weeks ago and learned a lot. since i'm new too, i'll definately watch this thread carefully.
Won't be part in modelling since i've nearly finished( well, could be much better, but it's just a tut :D ), but when it comes to texturice and rigging dis biatch i'm definately in.

thanks for trying this

this is what i've come so far


ps:this thread should be dedicated to michel roger (thx man!)

Jokafex
12-12-2002, 06:45 AM
Ok, for the last 2 days I've been trying to start this tutorial, but I keep getting stuck trying to set up the reference pictures. The first thing I need to know is do you set up both pics at the same time in seperate viewports? I tried that and it doesn't work. If it is suspose to work can someone please tell me how to do it?

(Nevermind, while messing around in max as I write this I figured it out.)

Ok, at the very start of this tut it says, "The return of the basic cube :).
As in the Crash Bandicoot LPM tutorial, the base of modeling is a cube, the simplest primitive in 3d...

Apply "Edit Mesh" and Collapse Stack."


Ok I don't see anywhere on the objects panel that says "cube"

http://www.jokafex.com/a/tutjoan.gif

I think that after I figure out how to make the cube and then apply the "edit mesh" I will be able to take it from there hopefully. I know this is alot to ask, but I'm really new at this but I want to learn so bad and I thought this would be the ideal place to start. So for any who takes the time to help, I want to thank you in advance for being patient with me.

Thanks.

BlazeSquall
12-12-2002, 11:56 AM
Use the Box Primitive, That's what they mean when they say Cube.

After that, click on the modifiers and scoll down, well not to far down actualy, to the Edit Mesh. Then have at it.

3D Bandit
12-12-2002, 04:06 PM
I played with the tutorial last night before I got caught up in some house work.....

This technique of modeling is fast.....I got 1 leg done in less than 3 minutes....

I must say this to all my fellow newbies....This is a perfect example of how reference art plays an important process in detail and structure.

I do prefer the method I'm using now....It's a technique that I'm learning from a Paul Steed publication. I strongly suggest every newbie to pick up his book "Modeling a Character in 3DS Max".

He makes every step clear and descriptive....he teaches you how to approach modeling rather than give you a small tutorial that leaves out a great deal of information (not that I'm against small tutorials....:) ).

When you're done with the book you will have a clear understanding of how to model a character from begining to end....In more than one way, plus, you will have a broad understanding with Max's interface and tools.....

Jokafex
12-12-2002, 05:08 PM
Thank you both for the much needed help. I will get that book as soon as I find it online. Much appreciated. Thank you.:)

Jokafex
12-12-2002, 06:12 PM
Ok, I'm back. Sorry if I'm starting to get on everyone nerves, but I have to ask. Ok, I've gotten as far as setting up my reference pics and I was told to use the "box" in the tut it says this, " "For the beginning start in left viewport, extrude one face from the cube, like show on picture on the left. Repeat this process and adjust the vertexes. Ok, so I'm assuming that you draw out the box before you apply the "edit mesh" Whan the box is created and after I've applied edit mesh I can't extrude the edges of the box like shown in the tut. I try to click and drag but nothing happens. What am I doing wrong? I'll show you the steps I've taken so far.

[Ok, I don't know exactly what I did, but I can start to extrude pieces of the box like in the tut] I'm so excited!

Ok, now I've noticed that I only have 8 point to which I can drag. How do I get more points on the box so I can continue to extrude over the rest of the foot and up the leg? This is what I've got so far.
http://www.jokafex.com/a/foot.gif

Again, thanks for the help and support.

Stygian
12-12-2002, 06:57 PM
ok here ya go Joka.
1. select the polygon subobject (keyboard shortcut 4)
2. select the side of your box that you are going to extrude from.
3. click extrude (keyboard shortcut ctrl+E)
and drag out the desired distance.
http://comppuccino.com/faceextrude01.gif :wip:

Jokafex
12-12-2002, 08:06 PM
Ok, kool. Now I see, but I don't think I'm ever going to get this. I see how the selected section of the box can be extruded, but making the selected areas go where you want them to go is the hard part. I can't seem to pull the selected parts in a diagnal direction. And exactly how big of a box should I start off with? I swear this tut is going to kill me. But I wont give up. Thanks guys.:D

3D Bandit
12-12-2002, 08:32 PM
When it comes to the size of the box I believe it depends on the artist and how he/she works with shapes, scaling and so forth. There simply is no one single way....

You can actually do this several ways....

for example.....you don't even have to make a perfect box. You can make a rectangular box; so it has the length of a foot. Then you can create vertices along the box that would help shape a foot. Then (while in vertex mode) you can relocate the vertexes accordingly so to get the look of a foot.

However, the tutorial does it more simply....It's also a good way to keep symmetry.

Also keep this in mine....when modeling for games you are working with a "polygon budget". I use that term loosely because hardware these days allow you to work with at least 5,000 poly's per model (I believe that's the budget on the PS2).

But, when modeling for cinema (including in game CG scenes) the count goes up considerably. So, don't be afraid to be exact in detail.....

KINGOFPAIN
12-13-2002, 01:24 AM
when you get your ref/pictures in your scenewhat are the spacific X,Y,Z positions of the 2 planes?, and where should the box be placed to start modeling?:hmm:

lek1
12-13-2002, 03:58 AM
this tutorial is from a french artist.
but i dont remember his website. can you tell me that?

thx

Rice ManX
12-13-2002, 04:24 AM
I was reading through the thread (wish i had this opportunity when i was a noob) and noticed that it looked like you were using planes to put the referance pics on, I find it much much more easy to go into the View menue and tell it to display the ref images as part of the view port background. I hope im not confusing anyone. But don't take it wrong i wouldn't change anything now since your already started but just for future referance, cuz the planes add unneeded geometry to the scene. and trouble i think.... keep up with it looks like u guys doing great.

Stygian
12-13-2002, 05:38 AM
KingofPain: I have noticed it doesn't really matter in the front and left viewports. there isn't really any DOF distortion in those views. I just usually move them out till just their corners touch .

lek1: here's the link you wanted the french version (http://mr2k.3dvf.com/tutorials/max/tutorials_joan.htm)

Troub
12-13-2002, 05:48 AM
Kingopain:
just put the first rect. with the frontimage at o,o,o, with 100*100.
in the attached pic you can the the coordinates, the first rect. is selected. do this in the front-viewport.
in the left- viewport create the other one and move it to where it will reach the right side of the first one.
now create the first box in the front viewport where the feet is, change to left viewport and move it forward to where it alligns your refpics for the sideview. convert and tada, just start polypushing.

Lek1:
the orig. is here
http://mr2k.3dvf.com/frameset.htm


ha, you're fast, Stygian :wip:

KINGOFPAIN
12-13-2002, 06:06 AM
thanks for the help all... now i need to go to work on this so i can catch up.:):thumbsup:

KINGOFPAIN
12-13-2002, 08:10 AM
Apply "Edit Mesh" and Collapse Stack. <----- i've looked for over an hour for this option, and i cant find it... can someone help me out please?:hmm:

Troub
12-13-2002, 09:28 AM
in the modifierpanel apply an edit mesh mod, than right klick and collapse all

just ask, saves time :beer:

KINGOFPAIN
12-13-2002, 09:55 AM
your a life saver bro! thanks.:thumbsup: :bounce:

Stygian
12-14-2002, 02:38 PM
Well I'm stuck at work this weekend how is everyones model coming ? Are we about ready to start part 2 of this tutorial ?
:wip:

KINGOFPAIN
12-14-2002, 05:45 PM
i ran into more probs.. i'm trying to figure it out but im getting ...:annoyed: when i know theres just a lil something im over looking... but i dont know what... ill be back.

Stygian
12-14-2002, 07:34 PM
what are you having problems with ? post a screen shot so we can help :thumbsup:

BlazeSquall
12-14-2002, 09:49 PM
I'm currently modeling the breasts....

Heh, Once again, I'd have never done this on my own...but since you all are doing it as well, It's really inspirational! Thanks again.

KINGOFPAIN
12-14-2002, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Stygian
what are you having problems with ? post a screen shot so we can help :thumbsup:

with the who;e extrude deal,... i cant figure which area to extrude from and in what direction,and the vert's... do i select all in one corner to move or just one of the few?... its twisting my brain!!!:shrug:

Stygian
12-14-2002, 10:31 PM
ok
@blazesquall : glad to see your in .. Welcome!!!:beer:

@KingofPain: Now again this is just the way I'm doing it so if someone more experienceced sees me telling these guys wrong call me on it please.
***************************
1. select the polygon subobject (keyboard shortcut 4)
2. select the side of your box that you are going to extrude from.
3. click extrude (keyboard shortcut ctrl+E)
and drag out the desired distance.
SCREEN SHOT HERE (http://comppuccino.com/faceextrude01.gif)
4. Then once you've pulled the face out a bit. (it doesn't matter if its going the right way or not cause your going to move the verts in a second)switch to the vertex subobject (keyboard shortcut 1)
5. now what I do is if I'm lining it up in my LEFT view I make the object transparent (alt + X) then I will drag a box around the corner I wanna move.
(This way I will get the vert's on both sides) then line them up with my reference .
same thing goes for the FRONT view.

see if that helps. and don't give up!!! It will all start to jive soon then you'll move much faster I promise.

KINGOFPAIN
12-15-2002, 05:51 AM
thanks bro... im going to give it a shot.. hope i can figure it out, please dont give up on me, im fresh to 3D noob 4 real... but im willing to try till i get it.:thumbsup:

gavinneil
12-15-2002, 01:04 PM
Hey great thread, gonna give it a shot! keep up the good work.

coCoKNIght
12-15-2002, 01:32 PM
I'm in. I surely can learn a lot from this one.
The next step is a bit tricky...

omarello
12-15-2002, 01:42 PM
hey just wondering if u guys are gonna stop working on this during holidays.... heh cause i dun wanna get back from holiday and see that u guys are way ahead of me.

heheh

coCoKNIght
12-15-2002, 01:45 PM
Yeah, I'll be in Spain on holidays, so I'll be unable to model on.

Stygian
12-15-2002, 01:58 PM
Why don't we not move on to part 2 "modeling the head" until After the new Year that will give everyone time to catch up and time to get back from their holiday travels

coCoKNIght
12-15-2002, 02:16 PM
update:

omarello
12-15-2002, 04:05 PM
yeah cool idea, after new years is time to model... woohoo i am so excited

schlook
12-15-2002, 04:32 PM
Hi!
just a question.. when im supposed to cut, is it any difference between cutting edges or cutting polygons??
thanks.

Troub
12-15-2002, 07:00 PM
yes, there is.
you need another step when cutting edges.
just an idea when it comes to cut polies.
it's from the hair part of the tutorial.
he could have mentioned earlier :wip:

KINGOFPAIN
12-15-2002, 07:01 PM
http://www.angelfire.com/dc/kingofpain2/mod/tut.jpg


am i even close to being right on my method?:shrug:

Stygian
12-15-2002, 07:27 PM
yeah Bro you are doing fine. now at some point while in the front view you will want to move your verts around to match your reference. (do it the same way you are moving them in the left view).
Your getting there keep it up . :applause:


***************
(edit)
Hey King could you post that same screen shot with the lines turned on I think I see something funny with your verts and if there is you'll wanna catch it now before you get much further.

JBruckner
12-15-2002, 09:21 PM
I love this, I might start on this sometime. But is there going to be another round? Soon this type of thing is going to be popping up in the Maya and lightwave forums. :)

Stygian
12-15-2002, 09:24 PM
If this one keeps going strong I'm sure we could find another tutorial to do together ..... this one still has another 5 parts so you have plenty of time to jump in and catch up if you want .
:bounce:

KINGOFPAIN
12-15-2002, 10:03 PM
when i make the foot and leg, and view it in whole it looks messed up, i must not be placing the verts right or extruding the right site of the box....... help.:annoyed:

omarello
12-15-2002, 11:22 PM
hey, in reference to kingofpains last screen shot, in the front view should one move the verts to math the reference or scale them???? i am not sure about this part... i mean moving them in the from view port may match but i think they will be out of proportion in other dimention.....

does anyone understand what i mean????

Stygian
12-16-2002, 01:08 AM
@kingofpain : post a screen shot of your wireframe so we can help you spot your mistakes. don't get frustrated you'll get it . If this stuff was too easy everyone would do it

@Omarello : in the front viewport yes you'll move the vertex to match then make small adjustments.
:xtreme::airguitar :drumrock::xtreme:

Stygian
12-17-2002, 06:47 AM
ok I'm done with part 1 I may go back and tweak the arms some more not happy with them but its 2 am I'm going to bed . Happy holidays



http://comppuccino.com/joan.jpg

Xilica
12-17-2002, 06:56 PM
LOL > I hope you guys do something that a 14 year old can work on with parents in the room. hehe

Stygian
12-17-2002, 07:10 PM
LOL just tell them to look close our models are no more anatomically correct than a barbie doll currently. Plus how are you supposed to model humans with out using the human form ? (can you tell I already had to use these reasons on my wife ? ;) )

Xilica
12-17-2002, 10:52 PM
Oh lol, yea

omarello
12-18-2002, 08:45 PM
cool... looking good stygian..

hehe like ur new avatar

Reli
12-19-2002, 10:26 PM
Well after working on it off and on, here's my finished part 1. Plus, I'm really nervous about part 2 - the head. THAT will make or break me LOL.

Stygian
12-20-2002, 12:21 AM
looks good Reli and don't worry we'll tackle this woman's head together (hope she is wearing a helmet :) )

Reli
12-20-2002, 01:09 AM
Stygian, thanks man. I had a friend show how to do some spline modeling and it didn't quite turn out as I liked. But hopefully, we'll the the head done in no time. In the immortal words of Larry the Cable Guy," Git 'er dun!!!". And, that is what we're gonna do. See you on the virtual side.

s1lent
12-20-2002, 02:36 AM
:rolleyes: Hi, this is my frist human body that I am modeling to complete and as I was woking on the torso I started to drag out edges while holding shift to complete the top part, and now I got these wierd results from where I started.. I have taken 6 pics of it all so if anyone could tell me how to fix it. That would be great, just seen this topic a few days ago been working on it on and off for the week about 3 'n a half hours into it so far. (think I have been a bit too tedious on adjusting vertexs:shame: )
http://www.bioserum.us/prob/01.jpg

http://www.bioserum.us/prob/01w.jpg

http://www.bioserum.us/prob/02.jpg


:hmm:

s1lent
12-20-2002, 02:38 AM
http://www.bioserum.us/prob/02w.jpg

http://www.bioserum.us/prob/03.jpg

http://www.bioserum.us/prob/03w.jpg

Troub
12-20-2002, 06:27 AM
very well done, s1lent.
but,seems to get more complicated the more you try to repair.
I would recommend to delete those polies and shiftmove the edges to create new ones. afterwards weld the new created verts. Have a look at the earpart of that tut. there it's explained very well how to do that.
there might be another (maybe) better way, but thet's what i'ld do.
cheers

Reli
12-20-2002, 08:19 AM
Or what you might want to do is under poly or edit mesh mode (which ever one you're using), just select the 1/2 faces, and hit the backspace key. That should remedy your problem. That's what it looks like from my end. By taking out the "/" edges, it should revert to the standard 4 count poly. Hope that works and if it doesn't, sorry if I give you wrong advice.

BlazeSquall
12-20-2002, 01:03 PM
I found what works for me is to remove one or two of the square polys there, look inside for any polys that I can so because generaly, you should see no facets looking at you when you cut into her....heh...like this.

Once you isolate the vertex cause the problem, or edge etc, remove it, then extrude the edge down and line the ends up with the other vertext below it and weild it. I had to do that many times doing the foot. Newbie at this still.

Stygian
12-20-2002, 04:41 PM
S1lent :
in those areas where you see that distortion most of the time I find that I have multiple vert sitting on top of each other. I use weld select to merge them seems to clean it up .... I had to do this alot on the torso after extruding it up.
:wip:

s1lent
12-21-2002, 01:55 AM
Thx for the advice, found the problem and fixed it, was an extra poly indented into the model. :p

Xilica
12-22-2002, 01:17 AM
hmm, i haven't read up on the rules, but when are you guys going to finish this tutorial and move on to a new one?

Stroker
12-22-2002, 01:49 AM
There really aren't any rules. Just a bunch of folks doing the same tutorial and helping each other with it.

Stygian
12-22-2002, 02:56 PM
Exactly ... There are no Rules but we will probably move on to another tutorial after this one several of seem to be enjoying it. :thumbsup:

Xilica
12-22-2002, 03:17 PM
Aite, hope it is rate at G, lol

illustrain
12-22-2002, 08:39 PM
This is a great idea!!
here is how far I am - and I just started this morning. I'm having some trouble cutting the faces on my model - it just basically gives random sides on my model - can someone explain this in more detail for me please? Thanks!

Stygian
12-22-2002, 09:14 PM
Illustrain can you be a little more specific about "random sides " ? and we may be able to help a bit .

fleedawg
12-25-2002, 01:42 AM
Hey, I'm new here, and I'm on board with this tut. Stygian introduced me to this awesome board, and I just wanted to say hi!

eMiG
12-25-2002, 02:43 PM
Hey Ppl,
Like the most off you I'm also very new in 3D.
This is a great idea!!! (:thumbsup: for the topic starter)
Just saw this thread yesterday but wish I found it earlier, that could save alot off wasted hours trying to figure out some stuff.
I'm doing this tutorial for awhile now and so far I'm about done with the modeling job, except the hair I still have to do that but started on that and thought it was not good enough so deledet it. Now I'm at the point to start with texturing my girl

How can I put an image in my posts? Do I need a website to do that?

Count me in :arteest:

Troub
12-25-2002, 09:26 PM
when hitting the reply-button, just search for "attach file", browse your hd (it has to be less than 40kb) for your pic and that's it.
hope to see it soon :bounce:

eMiG
12-26-2002, 12:25 AM
Let's see if it will work

eMiG
12-26-2002, 12:36 AM
Yep, it worked :)

But now I see more things I still have to work on. Not only the hair but I'm also not satisfied about the clothes, gloves, shoes ... "well, hey, lets start over again" :hmm:

Stygian
12-27-2002, 04:19 PM
Hey that's the spirit Emig never settle always strive for perfection and you'll always improve.

@fleedawg : Welcome !!!

themike
12-28-2002, 10:48 PM
heya.. i've been quietly following you guys for past couple of posts... now I have a question now :D Umm was I supposed to work on the left side or one side at least the whole time and copy the opposite side to keep consistancy or work on both sides at the same time? I did that to the hips and worked on the body as a whole on the way up... and also... my body isn't as smooth as the tutorial as I have not put in the meshsmooth function yet... is it ok if i apply that at the end?

BlazeSquall
12-29-2002, 04:29 AM
I don't see a problem with adding it later, however, you just may have to go back later and change a few things that you may have caught sooner if you had been using it the whole time. I've finaly just started working on it again and have had to turn plenty of edges and even do some surgery on some excess vertex I accidently left within the model. Mainly on the foot...I was sloppy -_-


Moving on nicely now =)

As for your other question, you proably should have mirrored it at about the same time you started touching the other side of the hip.

Stygian
12-29-2002, 01:48 PM
Hey themike Welcome to our execise. Yeah you can add the meshsmooth at the end but like blazesquall said your gonna find all kindsa crap when you add it . One thing I found when I was doing it that way was though even though I thought the proportions looked good before the meshsmooth was applied my model's features were too understated once I applied the smooth . :wavey:

Trion-5
12-30-2002, 04:31 AM
Hey guys, I sorta caught this thread a wee bit late.

I'm starting on the leg now. But I already have 2 problems.

1. My "see-through" effect doesn't look like it shows on the tut. I get a "translucent-gray" shade. I can see through it, but i can't see the edges and it's not colored.

2. I can' t seem to get the cut tool to work correctly.


ps. is this guy giving me the finger?:shame:

illustrain
12-30-2002, 05:05 AM
Trion, I was having the same problem, I just couldn't really understand cutting. You can change the color in the tab where you can name the object, there is a little box next to it where you can change the color of the object (sorry, I can't explain it better).

Trion-5
12-30-2002, 05:47 AM
I know how to change the color of objects. I just can't quiet get the "see-through" to work correctly. I could have the object as a yellow color, but when I tick "see through" the object is appears below.

illustrain
12-30-2002, 06:59 AM
Ahh, sorry man I'm not sure about that. I just use the grey - I think it contrasts the blue alright, I can see the points fine in the screenshot. Anyone else know?

Stygian
12-30-2002, 04:02 PM
when you toggle see through it will always be that grayish color no matter what color you have the object set to. If you need to see your edge lines the toggle is F4 on the pc version .

@trion-5 I think he is giving you the finger :shame: but apparenlty he is giving me the finger too :shame:

coCoKNIght
12-30-2002, 04:48 PM
You could also give it a material with 50% opacity...

Trion-5
12-30-2002, 05:02 PM
ok, now that's solved. what about this problem with cutting?:argh:

Stygian
12-30-2002, 05:48 PM
ok I had alot of trouble cutting at first too. use the line ? subobject (keyboard shortcut 2) then switch to cut mode (alt + C) then make your cuts .... now something you will notice is that you will end up with extra vertices in places just use "weld" to clean this up after your done.
:wip:

eMiG
12-30-2002, 06:51 PM
Maybe some usefull tips for cutting:
* I always make sure "ignore backfacing" is turned on, so I'm sure I can't cut faces in the back of the model.
* Most of the time when cutting I set "3D Snap Toggle" to Vertex and Midpoint.
Hope this will help

I also have a ? about cutting. Is there a difference in cutting in Edge-, Face- or Polygone mode? and if there is, what is the diffence.

Those extra vertices has to do with (in)vissible edges (as far as I figured out)

Here a tip when creating an extra polygon (okay nobody asked for it but I just figured out and thought maybe it is usefull for someone :shrug: )
When you create a polygon often you can not see the skin of it, just FLIP it in the "surface properties". When you go CCW most off the time you can see the skin immediatly.

Stygian
12-30-2002, 07:13 PM
Thanks for the tips emig I hadn't figured those out yet. Man this is turning out to be a great exercise ..we are all learning at the same time we all seem to be finding different things out and sharing those things with the others. I think we will deffinitely have to find another tutorial to do together after this one. :beer:

illustrain
12-30-2002, 08:22 PM
Thanks so much emig, the ignore backfacing was my problem, it was putting cuts on the back side! :)

This is a great help!

paconavarro
12-30-2002, 09:19 PM
Stygian and all the guys working here... Let me say that I admire all of you :thumbsup: I started this tut and never finished it... I see so much talent here... If I could sugest something is that by the time you finish the editable mesh, try to repeat this tut using Editable Poly with Meshtools and CSpolytools... you can easily apply the workflow with epoly :D

Have fun guys!!

Stygian
12-30-2002, 10:02 PM
Thanks for the encouragement Paco and I'll be sure to try that.

Trion-5
12-31-2002, 05:53 AM
well, seems i'll have to withdraw from this group activity.
Seems my computer decided to f'up hardcore.:sad: Gateway told me i'll prolly need a new motherboard:mad:

Good thing it's still under warranty:deal:

Kaiser_Sose
12-31-2002, 01:29 PM
How in the world are you guys spending thousands of dollars on a program and you do not know how to do the most basic stuff which the 3DSMax manual, the best in the industry, clearly shows like making a box, making it editable, and moving points ... er, nevermind

Stygian
12-31-2002, 04:25 PM
I'm just going to ignore that :shame:

Kaiser_Sose
12-31-2002, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by Stygian
I'm just going to ignore that :shame:

Yup, you sure did :applause:

eMiG
12-31-2002, 06:21 PM
ignore what???

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YA ALL :beer:

Stygian
12-31-2002, 06:50 PM
@trion-5 : sorry to here about your computer bud you can catch up with us on the next tut. We'll still be here.

Silmar
01-01-2003, 10:13 AM
This is an awesome idea. I have just come on board and already these threads have saved my bacon several times over...

Im LOVING this... hope Im not too far behind

Xilica
01-02-2003, 02:43 AM
Nope, you're not Silmar;

Of course, I'm just sitting around until the next model gets up and rolling. :thumbsup:

iART
01-02-2003, 05:09 AM
I've just started this tut as well.

Could someone please explain futher on what is supposed to be done here?
http://members.shaw.ca/iart/image35.jpg
Delete the face and make the spotted line invisible ... (meshsmooth use visible edges for smoothing, try to turn visible on and off while in "show end result mode)

http://members.shaw.ca/iart/image36.jpg
Also... i have 1 meshsmooth already applied. Am i expecting to add a 2nd meshsmooth to the model?

This IS a great thread!!

Troub
01-02-2003, 05:45 AM
all steps described in the text are already done in the pic you posted.
you don't need to add another mehsmooth.
what he ment is to delete the face i marked yellow(it is already).
when making the dotted line invisible(it is too), the meshsmooth will handle the very top poly as one to smooth and not as two different polies. the results would be different. try to make it visible with show end result and you'll see.
sorry for my genglish :rolleyes:

Stygian
01-02-2003, 06:42 PM
Well I hope every one had a wonderful holiday season .... Are we ready to get back to work and start Part 2 of the tutorial?:wip:

coCoKNIght
01-02-2003, 07:31 PM
I don't mind thou I'm a little behind...

Xilica
01-02-2003, 11:46 PM
What is part 2?

Stygian
01-03-2003, 02:02 AM
In part 2 we start modeling the head xilica. I'm almost done currently this part seems to be going much faster than the first one. I'll post a pic when I quit woring on it tonite. :wip:

Stygian
01-03-2003, 04:59 AM
well this is as far as I got this evening. how is every one else coming along ? anyone stuck on something ?

http://comppuccino.com/joan_part2_01.jpg

still have some cleaning to do on the forehead area. :wip:

illustrain
01-03-2003, 06:21 AM
Can you say alien? The green adds a nice touch :p j/k looks good!

Teckniel
01-03-2003, 09:47 AM
i'm gonne join here + my frind hope if it not works i get support

Stygian
01-03-2003, 04:37 PM
welcome aboard Teckniel + friend and we'll be happy to help if you have problems thats what this thread is all about.

illustrain
01-04-2003, 05:51 AM
OK, I'm to the waist and I just found out why I had such a hard time cutting:

Turn the Edged faces on - Right click on the viewport name and add it there. It makes things a helluva lot easier!

Turn on Ignore backfacing in the right panel

-----------
After that said, I need a bit of help with the part where you weld the the points on the top side of the leg together, to make a new face. I can't seem to get it right and I think its just because I don't understand welding it exactly. Could someone please explain, in detail, how to do this part? Thanks!

Stygian
01-05-2003, 03:41 AM
well I've finished roughing in the head and neck and am now working on the ear . How is it going guys this thread seems to have quieted down quite abit since we started part 2
http://comppuccino.com/joan_head_01.jpg :wip:

illustrain
01-05-2003, 05:50 AM
Well I think that most people are still on part 1... I need help with welding that part. I seemed to have gotten stuck on that part, can anyone help?

bur147
01-05-2003, 08:59 AM
Hi all,

I saw this thread and thought I'd have a go. I'll post my progress soon.

To illustrain, I've also had som problems following the tut where it says to weld verts to create faces. Welding the verts will join faces together to create a new one (as long as you weld the right verts). Try using target weld, in max v4 you move the vert to the one you want to weld to, in v5 click on a vert and a dotted line will appear - click in the vert you want to weld to and the verts will be welded together. Hope this helps. If not try posting a pic of your problem compared to the tutorial and I see if I can be o more help.

Cheers, Bur147

bur147
01-05-2003, 10:52 AM
Hi All,

Here's my progress so far:-

Body:

http://www.bur147.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/joan_body.jpg

Still a few things to tweak but I thought I'd do the head first and tweak the model when it's all attached.

Head:

http://www.bur147.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/joan_head.jpg


Cheers, Bur147

Stygian
01-05-2003, 01:54 PM
@illustrain : I'm gonna assume your in version 4 . when you go to weld to vertices together get them as close as possible then over on the rollout on the right find the weld section you'll notice a number to the right of "selected" make that number 2 . That seems to make welding much easier not so many little errors when you try to weld .
:wip:
@blur147 looks good welcome aboard :beer:

illustrain
01-05-2003, 08:31 PM
ok, heres my problem:

I made a cut in this face on the top accidently - and I just noticed it after I opened max the next day.
http://illustrain.com/images/joan1.jpg
So, I took the advice of someone in the IRC channel and deleted the edge and then on top of that used the 'create' button to create a new face on top of that. Now, it looks normal, so I extrude it like normal - then after I applied a meshsmooth it turns out to look like this:
http://illustrain.com/images/joan2.jpg

ack! It looks perfectly normal if I just keep the top divided, I don't understand why its messing up like that. Can anyout help? I'm stuck here, or else I'll start over. I know theres a simple solution.

Stygian
01-05-2003, 08:51 PM
@illustrain :

Ok I'm stuck at work with no graphics program so I can't mark your image to show you what I'm talking about.

In the front viewport where the mesh is coming apart the vertices need to be welded to the main mesh. Lower on the leg where your mesh kinda looks like a spider web you have an extra vertice or something there that needs to be welded.
If this isn't clear enough I'll be home in about an hour and I'll highlight on your screen shot what I'm talking about.

Xilica
01-05-2003, 09:50 PM
@ Stygian: Good job with creating the girl. By the way, if this wasn't a community tutorial would it be a ton harder for you? Like I haven't read but has this helped??

illustrain
01-05-2003, 10:30 PM
Oh this has definetly helped... I've learned things here that I never knew, or it never said in any tutorial. The people in the IRC room have helped me alot too! Thanks!!

Question: is there a way to turn off the wireframe box around your object in max? I know that you can hit Ctrl+o to move it around as a wireframe, but I want to completely get rid of that box, it just gets in the way.

Stygian
01-06-2003, 01:29 AM
@Xilica : Doing this as a community tutorial helps keep me motivated. I'm new to CG but I've been a software tech for 7 years so when others mention problems I have this insatiable urge to find the answers and I learn in the process.

@illustrain : I don't know of a way yet but I'll look .

Stygian
01-06-2003, 01:39 AM
@illustrain I found it :applause:

click customize > viewport configuration > on the rendering method Tab > uncheck use selection brackets :) .........

that should get rid of it

illustrain
01-06-2003, 01:47 AM
Whoohoo! Awesome man! I finally got past that part, and I have both of the legs welded together! Joy!

Stygian: Come on into the IRC channel!

Now I can't seem to understand what he means by:

make the spotted line invisible (meshsmooth use visible edges for smoothing, try to turn visible on and off while in "show end result mode)

I can't find a way to do that, how'd you do it?

Stygian
01-06-2003, 04:26 PM
@illustrain : sorry about the slow reply bro you caught me after I had hit the sack last night.

What he's talking about making the line invisible : select that edge that he's talking about then in the rollout on the right almost all the way at the bottom you'll see a couple of buttons for making lines visible/invisible. When meshsmooth does its thing it only takes "visible lines into account"

Trion-5
01-06-2003, 05:27 PM
Johnny Number 5 is Alive! :buttrock:

Got the new motherboard and processor in today....
Installed it. Going to give the computer a couple days to make sure it's not "rejected".

Anyways....the old processor was 800hmz.....the new one is 850mhz....not much more, but it's that much closer to Ghz.:applause:

:airguitar :buttrock: :drumrock:

:twisted:

Teckniel
01-06-2003, 05:58 PM
my legs dont worjk it all get **** up help me out

Stygian
01-06-2003, 08:39 PM
Teckniel post a pic of what your having trouble with. Without specifics its kinda hard to help .

@trion - 5 : welcome back :beer:

bur147
01-06-2003, 09:54 PM
Hi All,

Here are some pics of my progress.

http://www.bur147.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/joan_02.jpg

http://www.bur147.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/joan_perspective_head_02.jpg

I've still got loads of tweaking to do. I'm not happy with the hips, breasts, backside, forehead and the ear connection is not quite right.

I think I'm jumping ahead of everyone else, if this is a problem let me know and I'll take a break when I've finished this part until we start the next section.

@Teckniel : We need more info. Can you post a pic or explain in more detail please.

And come on guys - post more progress pics. I'd like to see how everyone else is doing.

Cheers, Bur147

Stygian
01-07-2003, 12:02 AM
looks good blur I'll post some pics tonite when I finish the god forsaken ear I'm trying to fix :) ( I hate the ear most of all so far followed closely by the lips ):wip:

Trion-5
01-07-2003, 03:06 AM
Originally posted by illustrain
Oh this has definetly helped... I've learned things here that I never knew, or it never said in any tutorial. The people in the IRC room have helped me alot too! Thanks!!

Question: is there a way to turn off the wireframe box around your object in max? I know that you can hit Ctrl+o to move it around as a wireframe, but I want to completely get rid of that box, it just gets in the way.

What IRC channel on what server?

eMiG
01-07-2003, 06:36 AM
Hi I guess I'm back alive again.

Stygian, I know what you mean about the ear. First I thought it's only a small thing so it can't be that hard. OH man how wrong I was. Had alot of troubles with it.

Bur147>>> Looks good. But it looks like she has a big scar on her stomach.

bur147
01-07-2003, 07:23 AM
@eMiG

Thanks, I know what you mean about the scar. For some reason I just can't get that indentation on the stomach to look right. Will try to impove it tonight. If I can't get it right, it may have to go.

@Stygian

The ear is definitely the hardest part so far, I spent loads of time trying to get the depth right.

Looking forward to seeing some pics.

Cheers, Bur147

themike
01-07-2003, 09:03 AM
it looks like everyone is just working on one side and just mirroring it to the other side... is that right?

CarlCampbell
01-07-2003, 11:39 AM
THe head is really tough to make. Me don't really like splines :(

Carl :beer:

bur147
01-07-2003, 11:47 AM
@themike

Yep, thats right, you model one side and mirror it. When your done modelling you attach the two halves and weld them together.

Cheers, Bur147

Stygian
01-07-2003, 03:58 PM
Well I got the ear finished last night and almost had it attached when my wife came in threatening serious bodily harm if I didn't "get off the damn computer" thats a direct quote guys. So I went the route of self preservation. I'll post some pics tonite of everything welded together. :rolleyes:

BlazeSquall
01-10-2003, 03:39 AM
I fell behind. :shrug:

My save became corrupt and my autobak was....a few hours behind. I will however catch up. Or at least start the next one when everyone else does :)

Looking good guys.


:thumbsup:

bono3d
01-10-2003, 12:01 PM
I think is time to post my model and share some things.
The first one is how to define a model structure before make it 3D (edge loops). Im having this difficulty because I trying to work on a cartoon model how is completly different to real humam models. In this type of modelling technic used in Joan Darc, edge loops or model structure need to be really exact to work. So, what you guys learn about to define this structure?
Well, here are my images:

bono3d
01-10-2003, 12:03 PM
A closed look to head...

bur147
01-10-2003, 10:25 PM
Hi all,

Here's an update.

http://www.bur147.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/joan_03.jpg

I've started on the Armour, but I'm doing the top half first. I've not welded the two halves of the body together yet, I may want to tweak the eyes - I think they need to come forward and up a little.

@bono3d : looking good - keep it up :applause:

Cheers, bur147

fleedawg
01-12-2003, 08:07 AM
First of all, I gotta say that everyone's model is looking so good! This thread looks like it's a big success and I hope we can all make it to the end. :beer:

Unfortunately, I got behind, screwed some things up and had to start over. The going is a lot quicker this time around, but I'm still very new to Max and some of the things in the tutorial are baffling me to no end. In particular is when he tells you to weld a vertex and the lines magically disappear. I attached the one that is currently stumping me. I know how weld selected works, but not weld target. Can anyone shed some like on this feature for me? Also, how do you get those darn lines to disappear, as in the image? :shrug:

The text of the tut says: "While preparing for modeling of arm, simplify the for faces into one polygons (Weld Target). " Can anyone help me out on this? I'd greatly appreciate it.:D

Troub
01-12-2003, 09:29 AM
You're doing all very good, congrats on progress.

fleedawg: try this

select vertex, now press weld target...go to viewport, klick and hold on the vertex you want to move to weld (the middleone)...move it to the vertex you want to weld it with(target)...when reaching the target, your cursor becomes a little cross...get off the mousebutton and tada... it's welded.
Now go to edge (subobjektlevel), select all edges you want to disappear and scroll down the menu to the right....under surface properties you will find two buttons, visible and invisible...press invisible and the selected edges will become a dotted line.
no go to polygon (subobjektlevel) (the second little square from right) and klick into that red marked area(see your pic)...you will notice that it's selected as one polygon which you can extrude as you like.

hope i'm right
keep up
troub

fleedawg
01-12-2003, 09:40 AM
Thanks a bunch Troub. It all worked like you said it would. Worked like a charm. Now I can work on the arm and hopefully get part one finished soon. I'll admit, this tutorial is a lot of fun, but also frustrating at times, especially when trying to get the meshes looking like in the tut. Hopefully when I get the basic model finished, I can post my wires and you pros can help me figure out what I'm doing wrong, because some of it just doesn't look right and for the life of me, I can't figure out why. Thanks again, Troub!

Xilica
01-12-2003, 02:18 PM
Hey guys,

I am checking out this tutorial at 3dtotal.com

Are you guys going to model everything including the assessories? I might try to model the sword if you guys are eventually going to work on it.

bur147
01-12-2003, 10:10 PM
Hi all,

Here's my latest update.

http://www.bur147.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/joan_04.jpg

I've done the upper body armour, hair and eyes.

@Xilica : I'm planning to complete the whole tutorial (Although not in the order listed on the web site). I think I'll do the Gloves next, then the sword, Armour Legs and lastly the Accessories.

The all I have to do is the UV Mapping, Texturing, Boning and Skinning.


Cheers, Bur147

Stygian
01-13-2003, 04:09 PM
Woohooo !!! I go away for a couple of days. Come back and you are all looking like pros :applause:
@blur147 : that is looking great man good job now I gotta catch up again .
:wip:

Stillwell
01-14-2003, 06:27 PM
(Geez, how do I feel stupid...)

Is the collapse stack a thing that will crush all the stack of modifiers?

--------

Another question, here are my developments. On the left side, the structure appears to be correctly "aligned", but I want to know: is it normal that from the front it is supposed to be like that?

I mean, I extruded the part like in the tutorial, but is there adjustments to make after from the front view?

I'm afraid I did something wrong, just like everything should be aligned well.

bur147
01-14-2003, 06:43 PM
Hi Stillwell,

Yea, you need to adjust the model in the front viewport so that it matches the reference pic.

Stillwell
01-14-2003, 06:46 PM
Thank you :)

arjun
01-14-2003, 10:27 PM
Ok, I've spent about 2 hours doing this, and I'm not happy with my problems :annoyed:

Question 1:

I didn't collapse stack at the beginning. I just Edit Mesh'd it. Will that have any effect on it? And what? I'm scared.

Question 2:

At THIS LINK (http://www.geocities.com/arjunk47/joan2.txt) , how do I adjust the vertices in the front view to fit her leg? There are so many randomly spaced vertices. I'll even give you the max file if you can show me, I'm so desperate.

Thanks!!!! If you help me I'll be your friend forever!! Thanks again!! :thumbsup:

bur147
01-15-2003, 08:52 AM
Hi arjun,

To answer your questions:

1. Using an 'Edit Mesh' modifier shouldn't be a problem. But I would recommend that you colapse the stack. There is no reason to keep the base primative.

If you worried about collapsing the stack just ensure you've saved you file before you do it, then if it all goes wrong you can go back to the saved file (Can't see why there would be a problem though).

2. I would move the whole leg in the front viewport so that the foot matches the reference pic. Then I'd start by selecting a horizontal edge on the leg and use the 'Loop' button to select all the edges around the leg. Them move the selected 'Edge Loop' so that it matches the reference pic in the front viewport. I'd do this for each loop in turn until the leg basically matches the on in the reference pic.

After that it's a matter of selecting individual/groups of vertex's/edges/faces and moving them to make your model a more pleasing leg/foot shape.

This is how I would do it, it may not be the most efficient way. But it works.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Bur147

arjun
01-15-2003, 11:02 PM
Well you're model looks really clean so I bet it does work.
Thanks. I'm starting to see some little glitches in the model so I might even start over. Ok then, I'll be quiet now.

fleedawg
01-16-2003, 06:29 AM
Hey, everybody. I finished the basic shape of the body and I'll tweak it more when I'm ready to attach the head. I just had to move on to something different than the body. Speaking of which, here's some progress shots of my head so far. I've gotten through the nose part. I'm sure it needs a lot of tweaking, but I'm not sure exactly what, so I'd like some honest criticism if possible. But please be gentle. This is basically my first real model EVER, and I've only been on Max for a few weeks. Thanks!
http://flee.morpheus.net/joan/joan.html

EDIT: Beware dialup users! Pictures abound!

arjun
01-17-2003, 12:47 AM
Please someone. :thumbsdow
I've been trying to use 3dsmax for so long and I suck. Now I've reverted to this. Please can you take my 3dsmax file at www.arjunk.tk (it's clearly labelled), and put a few vertices aligned in front view so I understand how to do it? Thanks so much. :hmm:

Stygian
01-17-2003, 04:21 PM
@Arjun : have you gotten through the rest like converting the cube to an editable mesh and then extruding the faces for the rough shape ? to move a vertex simply select that vertex and with your move tool slide it along its X, Y, or Z axis. To line it up in the front view just go to the front viewport and slide those vertices till they match the drawing behind it.


@Fleedawg : its looking really good I think you got way closer to the example mesh than I did .
:applause:

bur147
01-17-2003, 09:33 PM
@Arjun, like Stygian said. you need to select a vertex or group of vertexs and move them in the front view along the x axis to align with the ref pic.

I'm sorry - I tried loading your file but every time I tried to edit the model Max crashed. So I knocked together a quick example.

Image 1

http://www.bur147.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/Image1.jpg

Here we have the extruded leg. I've dragged a selection box around the vertexes I want to select.

Image 2

http://www.bur147.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/Image2.jpg

With the 'Move Tool' I click on the 'X Arrow' of the move gizmo and drag the vertexes along the x axis to line up with the reference pic.

Do this for each set of vertexes in turn until you have formed the basic leg shape. Then you can refine the shape by selecting and moving individual or groups of vertexes.

Hope this helps.

@Fleedawg : Looking good man, the only obvious nasty is that there seems to be a crease in the chin to the lower left of the lips. Other than that looking v.nice. :applause:


Cheers, Bur147

Stygian
01-17-2003, 09:39 PM
good job with the screen shots Blur
I'm stuck at work so now 3DS max here :annoyed:
someday I'll work in 3D or even 2D hell I'd even settle for working in 1.5 D LOL

bur147
01-17-2003, 09:49 PM
Thanx Stygian,

When are we going to see an update from you? or is your wife still threatening GBH ?

I've started working on the Glove, and maybe it's just me but it's proving to be the hardest part yet.


Cheers, Bur147

Stygian
01-17-2003, 10:12 PM
well I decided to skip the sword and started on the leg armor I figured the sword can wait till the end or at least till she has a hand to hold it in. :) Just been lazy with the screen shots I'll post some tonite. :p

fleedawg
01-17-2003, 10:55 PM
Is this the crease you're referring to?
http://flee.morpheus.net/joan/persrender.jpg

If so, then I found it out right after I took those shots. I've since worked on the lips and improved the nose some, but have been to lazy to update. Thanks for taking a look though. I'll probably work on the ear this weekend and update then. Then I get to start connecting stuff and fixing the curvy parts (boobs and butt) that I didn't finish. :)

Stygian
01-17-2003, 11:39 PM
Yeah!!! FleeDawg!! I work with Flee and he has shown alot of progress he just started using max a little after we started this tutorial so lets hear it for speedy Flee the wonder Dawg :bounce:

DaliFan
01-18-2003, 04:22 AM
great tut and great thread!

my problem is connecting the half to the mirror

the mirror is on top of the stack and when I click it I have no options to attach

any help? nice work guys

Risibility
01-18-2003, 06:25 AM
heh, i only read through the first couple pages of this thread, and a few of the last, and it looks like we have some people learning on pirated versions of 3ds max :]

good times...i have no complaints but of course it doesn't make sense to buy a $3,000 ($900 with student discount!!) program if you aren't sure you want to go into the industry.

well anyways, just thot your 3dsmax 3 and lower was funny. this is a good idea, its nice to see weve got some leaders, teachers, and people who have never even used max but are determined to model a female body (you crazy bastards).

Dalifan: all you should have to do is make sure that both halves have the "edit mesh" layer on top, shift/drag right, mirror, and then attach, and the rest is just welding vertices. by the looks of the model, you know what you're doing and i probably didnt need to explain this, so just keep messin around with it.

DaliFan
01-18-2003, 07:36 AM
ty

yeah I had not used Max in awhile (v3) and was going about it the wrong way

Troub
01-18-2003, 07:51 AM
nice progress everybody :beer:

arjun:
This might be your problem:I looked at your scene and discovered a lot of vertices you dont need.
http://www.hct-live.de/arjun/cg1.jpg
This often appears when it comes to cut polies. Vertices appear when you cut invisible edges. You dont need those.
http://www.hct-live.de/arjun/cg2.jpg
You need to weld those unwanted verts. Select them and click weld selected (play with the treshhold) or weld target.
http://www.hct-live.de/arjun/cg3.jpg
afterwards, when theres only one vertex at the crossing of two visible edges it should be much easier to select it and move it to the right place in the front viewport, like the other told already.

btw...to avoid those unwanted verts on invisible edges try to modell in editable poly not mesh, there only visible edges are taken into account.

keep up :thumbsup:
troub

drunkirishmic
01-18-2003, 08:30 AM
just got done with the head. that has to be one of the most difficult ways to model a head. my god. anyways, it looks alright, but i think ima try a different method. practice practice practice !

Stygian
01-18-2003, 01:34 PM
Well I get home last night and my cable connection is down hopefully will be fixed by the time I get home today and I'll post those promised screen shots of my progress.
:shrug:

fleedawg
01-18-2003, 07:33 PM
I've finished the majority of the head. I may just need to do some tweaking on it, but I think it looks pretty decent. If you want to see my updates and crit them, my newest update is:
http://flee.morpheus.net/joan/joan1.html

@Stygian: I don't deserve any credit, since I'm just following instructions. Once I can do something on my own, then we'll see how much I've progressed. :)

drunkirishmic
01-18-2003, 08:27 PM
head and body thus far

http://www.drunkirishmic.com/images/chick02.jpg http://www.drunkirishmic.com/images/joan1.jpg

Stygian
01-18-2003, 08:33 PM
hey drunkirishmic looks pretty good and she has a real nice set of Ta-ta's there good job

Xilica
01-18-2003, 09:56 PM
Hi, I am currently working on the sword. However, I got stuck because when I click the top and bend it 63.5 degrees on the X axxis is bends and all, but when it tell me to scale it I scale it on the axis it tells me to but it just goes up or down and not bend at all. Can someone help me? Thanks

fleedawg
01-18-2003, 09:57 PM
I agree. Nice job. Your boobs are way better than mine! :surprised

Here's a quickie update before assembly. It's....an ear.

Hope you like!

The FreakyOne
01-18-2003, 10:49 PM
hello there iv been sitting here for the past half hour reading all these posts and i think this thread was a great idea i my self started this tutorial a few months back its an amzeing tutorial,the only thing i dont leik about it is that it doesnt give you any numbers [ie:when u have to extrude an edge it doesnt tell u how many edges to extrude,(it says that mostly in teh ear tutorial)]
any way heres what i got... im gana start teh entire body over again i dont liek teh way the first oen came out

fleedawg
01-18-2003, 11:29 PM
Wow, that's looking really good. What don't you like about it? I JUST now got past that part (attaching the ear is NO FUN!) and hopefully I can get the head attached to the body, and everything mirrored and welded together without incident.

illustrain
01-18-2003, 11:46 PM
Hey guys.... I forgot about this when I got stuck before. I'm upto the hips - where you have to mirror them. After I mirror it - and start extruding the the torso up, the sides start crossing over. I guess its just because I didn't align the verticies straight up vertically. Is there a trick to this or something?

The FreakyOne
01-18-2003, 11:51 PM
whats n ot so good about it isnt visible fromt eh side,when u look at it from the from theres a bunc of little dents and dings inher chin that iod ont know how to fix and yes teh ear connection is horrid.id gladely start thsi entire tut over but im int eh middle fo another charecter as of now,but as soon as i finish that ill be here :thumbsup: (this is what im currently workiong on - http://www.cgchat.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11719 )

Xilica
01-19-2003, 12:08 AM
Well looks to me like you guys are still busy finishing up the body. I'll keep up with what you guys are pretty much on and get real active when you guy do the sword :buttrock:

fleedawg
01-19-2003, 01:29 AM
@Illustrain: Did you actually mirror it permanently or did you just do it for reference? Because the way the tutorial says to do it is to just do half of the body and mirror it when everything else in the body is done. Regarding the vertexes, I just usually align them by eye, because it can always be changed later.

@The FreakyOne: I hear you about the dents and dings. Ususally they're vertecies that aren't really attached. Ususally this happens with a cut that doesn't connect. Even with 3D Snap on, it doesn't always work right. But weld can fix that pretty easily. Other times, I had weird edges that would stick out, and I'd have to delete the poly and redo it so it wouldn't look so weird. Oh, and that character looks pretty cool.

@Xilica: Stygian and I are about to finish up the body. I just need to mirror and weld the halves together. Then I need to tweak everything before moving on. I can't wait until the body is DONE. I'm starting to get sick of it. :)

fleedawg
01-19-2003, 02:34 AM
Ok, I've got the ear on the head and the head on the body, and now all I need to do is mirror and weld. I've got all my vertecies lined up and ready to go, but I know I probably need to fix something first. Any suggestions?
http://flee.morpheus.net/joan/joan2.html
(Warning: lots of images ahead!)

Oh, and yea, the head is small. I screwed up when attaching merging it and scaling it to size. I didn't realize I messed up until I had everything else set, so I'm not gonna worry about it. As the late Bob Ross would say, "It's not a mistake. It's a happy little accident." Kinda like when I wet myself. Ummm, you didn't hear me say that.
:surprised



Oh, and thanks everybody for helping me stay modivated!

DaliFan
01-19-2003, 04:03 AM
ok time to attach

then make a eyeball and some hair and do clothes last

DaliFan
01-19-2003, 04:04 AM
...

fleedawg
01-19-2003, 04:29 AM
It's looking really good! It's nice to see that everybody else got the boobs to turn out right!:D

DaliFan
01-19-2003, 04:35 AM
never did I have so much fun (yeah right!) with one boob! :D

drunkirishmic
01-19-2003, 06:17 AM
done with the body. im sick of this damn thing!
http://www.drunkirishmic.com/images/joan.jpg

Stygian
01-19-2003, 02:33 PM
well I finally got my connection back!!! images will be forthcomming. Everybody is looking pretty good. I think its about time we started the sword I think the consensus is everyone is sick of looking at Joan. :insane:

@xilica : We're catching up man we're almost there with you.

@fleedawg : You and your happy little accidents LOL but her squished head doesn't look too bad just makes yours more Unique.
:wip:

Xilica
01-19-2003, 08:55 PM
@Stygian: Nah, I am far behind. I just am not choosing to model the lady since I am 14 and if my parents saw me modeling a naked lady they would probably be like 'wtf.' So I am just chillin' until you guys are on the sword.

Stygian
01-19-2003, 09:01 PM
@Xilica: LOL!!! I understand. Well maybe we'll look at doing a particle or nice non offensive texturing turtorial next so you can participate without getting grounded.

;)

Xilica
01-19-2003, 09:17 PM
@Stygian: Thanks :beer:

My goal right now is to get real good at low poly modeling and this is one of the best tools to do so.

forge
01-19-2003, 09:24 PM
Ok, Im extremely new to cgtalk and 3dmax as well. I think this is a great idea by the way. But, Im having trouble seting up these reference images. I make the planes but I still am unsure of how to get the downloaded pics into 3dmax and into the material :cry: :cry: :cry: . CAN ANYONE PLEASE HELP ME!! thanks in advance.

Xilica
01-19-2003, 09:29 PM
What I would do is make the plane the same size as the image. Then open up the material editor and click a blank slot. Then click the maps rollout and then you will see the Diffuse slot. Click the button to the right of the diffuse name and then click bitmap. Locate the reference image and double click on it. Then drag the material to the plane and then click in the material editor on the little cube that says Show Map in viewport. Now the reference image should display.

forge
01-19-2003, 09:38 PM
nevermind I finally figured it out I just wasn't following instructions correctly. I sometimes do that :). but thanks for your help and I'll try to catch up with you guys but Im sure I'll have more questions!

Stygian
01-19-2003, 09:43 PM
Well Forge welcome to CgTalk and to the Max forum :wavey: we'll be happy to answer any questions you may have. :wavey:

forge
01-19-2003, 10:07 PM
I think I found a better way of displaying the images. Instead of putting them on a plane just put them as a viewport background. Go to Views > Viewport Background. then click files to select the image and the view you want at the bottom left. I've also selected match bitmat under aspect ratio. I also selected "lock zoom" and "dislplay background" checkboxes. Just another way of doin something let me know if this is a bad idea cause I havent started modeling yet with it. hope this helps

The FreakyOne
01-19-2003, 10:20 PM
i like better haveing them on a plane cuz then i can hide them when needed :) just my $0.02:thumbsup:

drunkirishmic
01-19-2003, 10:22 PM
done wit the sword, took an hour or so, probably the qickest part of this tut.

http://www.drunkirishmic.com/images/sword.jpg

forge
01-19-2003, 10:34 PM
ok, heres another obstacle Im having trouble with. Im not exactly sure how to shape the box or "cube" into the shape of a foot. I know how to mesh edit but it seems they left out the part on how many segments should be in the cube and how to add more. mayb each segment is a separate object? I dont know but I hope someone can help me witht he first couple steps and then I should be able to take it from there :). THANKS AGAIN GUYS!!!

fleedawg
01-19-2003, 10:59 PM
@drunkirishmic: It would have been for me too if I hadn't screwed up by miswelding some veritices. I deleted a bunch of the polys in the blade and redid them to fix the error, so it took a lot longer than it should have. At least I'm done with it, and I guess I'll go ahead and finish the dang body so I can move on to armor. You can see some pics of my sword at: http://flee.morpheus.net/joan/sword.html

@forge: I don't think the segments really matter. I don't remember changing it any. What I did is just put the starting cube in place at the bottom of the toe, and then selected the polygon that I wanted to add on to. Then extrude that polygon, and so on.

forge
01-19-2003, 11:14 PM
I dont think I know how to do that :cry: I hope someone can help me :(

Xilica
01-20-2003, 12:37 AM
@drunkirishmic: Dude, that is awesome. I had trouble right in the beginning of modeling the sword. I'll post in a sec my problem.

Xilica
01-20-2003, 12:54 AM
@drunkirishmic: Working on the sword..Alright, I'm at the part where you use the bend modifier in the beginning to curve the top. I do that and it works fine. However, I don't know how to get the other parts that were extruded to curve down. Do I have to angle them all very carefully? Is there a trick to it?

drunkirishmic
01-20-2003, 12:55 AM
im usin polys, meshes blow ass, i think this tut is a little out dated.

forge: the segments r extrusions. so u start with a cube at the toe, still with me? each red line in the tutorial pics represents an extrusion. so u extrude the back face leading up the foot. extrude once, adjust the verts to match the reference images, then extrude again, adjust, extrude, etc.

hope that helps.

fleedawg
01-20-2003, 01:37 AM
@drunkirishmic: It was designed for Max 4, so it is a little outdated, but a lot of people still use Max 4. And since it was translated from French, a lot was probably lost in the translation. I wish someone would write a FULL tutorial, because some things aren't explained and you have to figure them out on your own. If this thread wasn't here, I wouldn't be able to do the tut at all.

@Xilica: The bend completely threw me for a loop. No matter what, I couldn't get it to bend the right way, so I said forget it and just moved the polys. :)

@forge: If you're still having problems, you may want to check out some of the tuts built in to Max (well, in Max 5 anyway). The first spaceship one does a lot of extruding and is basically the same stuff this tutorial is about. It does better of explaining the ins and outs of Max than the Joan tut does.

Xilica
01-20-2003, 01:39 AM
w00t, I got the bend

damn, i bet all of us could rewrite this tut so it is much easier, lol

ok, what I did for that bend was select the top poly and then the top and bottom extrusion polys which you made. Then I hit the bend modifier for 63.5 along the x axis and it bended like magic the correct way. Then I collapsed the stack so I wouldn't lose my worrk. :buttrock:

Stygian
01-20-2003, 03:58 AM
OK I'm almost caught up to you guys but I've got 8 straight days of work so I may fall a little behind till next weekend.
Heres my shot of the body . Not happy with it but sick of looking at it so have moved on to the sword now.

The FreakyOne
01-20-2003, 04:50 AM
hour and a half its alot easier the second time around hehe

illustrain
01-20-2003, 06:24 AM
You know what, I'm thinking that if I get permission from the french guy - maybe I could re-write this tutorial with suggestions from all of you on what you got stuck on. It would make it a helluva lot easier for us noobs! Any suggestions/comments?

Xilica
01-20-2003, 10:39 AM
Sounds like a great idea to me!

Just make sure it is for Max 5 because I think the tutorial is for Max 4.

http://3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/joanofarc/images/sword/image12.gif

How do I do this to the top of my sword? I selected all the edges up top but there isn't a Weld button.

The FreakyOne
01-20-2003, 02:49 PM
if ur in editable mesh its here ---> u have to move the verts super close to ech other and where it sayd 0.1 make it 1 or 2 hand hit selected(while u ahve the verts u want selected) that number represents teh space in between the verts

The FreakyOne
01-20-2003, 02:52 PM
if ur in editable poly its here --> to increase the threashhold click on teh window next to it (indicated in blue) hope this helped

Xilica
01-20-2003, 03:31 PM
I'm using editable mesh yet I don't know which vertices to select and move. Just the top? Or the 4 ones on the end:

Stygian
01-20-2003, 03:31 PM
Sorry Xilica was writing this in respnse to your previous post and you posted a new one while I was typing :)
@xillica : Your supposed to use "turn"
when your in the edge subobject mode click the turn button on the rollout to the right it changes what vertices have the line running between them. and by turning the edges you'll get the geometry your looking for. Just be careful when turning the edges not to catch the ones on the backside of it .:wip:

Xilica
01-20-2003, 03:46 PM
hmm, I went to edge sub object and clicked turn and then clicked an edge and nothing happend?

The FreakyOne
01-20-2003, 03:49 PM
are u doing teh same joan of arc tut that were doing? if so what part is that?

Xilica
01-20-2003, 03:51 PM
The part kinda in the beginning where it says click the top vertex and weld it so that you have two lines running through the top

Stygian
01-20-2003, 04:22 PM
Xilica are you clicking the dotted lines ? I don't think you can turn the actual outside edges of the faces

Xilica
01-20-2003, 04:45 PM
Hmm, see I don't know what to click to get it like that.

Stygian
01-20-2003, 06:12 PM
its the second suboject mode I called it edges it may be lines ?!!? I don't know I'm at work so I can't look at it
:shrug:

The FreakyOne
01-20-2003, 06:26 PM
boobs and buts are the devil THE DEVIL!!!!

Xilica
01-20-2003, 06:47 PM
@Stygian: I am in the edges subobject. Do I click all the dotted lines on the top of the polygon? If so, what do I do next.

Stygian
01-20-2003, 06:51 PM
ok with "turn" activated click on the dotted lines and you'll see their endpoints change. You'll end up with that lone vertex floating out there all by his lonesome then use weld target to weld him to one of the others

Xilica
01-20-2003, 07:56 PM
I changed the edges around. What about welding that vertex? I dont quite understand

Stygian
01-20-2003, 08:06 PM
Ok now that you have the edges in the right places just use weld target to weld that middle vertex to one of those around it . :wip:

Xilica
01-20-2003, 10:19 PM
I go into vertex sub object and click the middle vertex. Then I hit the weld target button and click a vertex on the edge and nothing happens...

Stygian
01-20-2003, 11:20 PM
Xilica when you want to use weld target make sure target is turned on then click and hold the vertex you want to weld then drag your mouse to the vertex you want to weld it to. when you get over that vertex the pointer will turn into a litt + then let go ... viola weld target . :wip:

Xilica
01-21-2003, 12:16 AM
Ok, I understand that part however when I drag the center vertex it only applys to one and I don't get any new polygons. I don't really understand how to do this yet. :cry:

iART
01-21-2003, 04:55 AM
Finished with neck:
WeldTarget is too straight forward to screwup on, so why am i screwing up?
http://members.shaw.ca/iart/meshsmooth.jpg

Welded Verticle, now Making Edges Invisible:
http://members.shaw.ca/iart/meshsmooth2.jpg

Why is it, that whenever i weld a verticle in an Editable Mesh, that the MeshSmooth verticles get all messed up?
http://members.shaw.ca/iart/meshnotsmooth.jpg


Thanks in advance,
iART

PS. Yes, i am one of those people who wait too long to ask for help.

iART
01-21-2003, 05:22 AM
One (of many) more questions.

usually i edit the verticles of EditableMesh before editing verticles of MeshSmooth. How important is it to edit the verticles in the Editable Mesh?

the reason i ask is, sometimes i forget to adjust the Editable Mesh before MeshSmooth. Then i look at the Editable Mesh and it is nothing but a deformed block.... so i make the changes... then make the changes all over again to MeshSmooth. This takes a lot of time when i forget the order to edit.

on behalf of everyone doing this tutorial, thx to all for your help.
iART

fleedawg
01-21-2003, 05:49 AM
iART: I do 99% of my editing in Edit Mesh, because it's faster and I can SEE the vertecies and edges better. Then I usually do any finishing touches in Mesh Smooth. Regarding the Welding Target, one thing I screwed up on A LOT (especially the sword) is that I didn't check Ignore Backfacing, so inevitably I would weld behind where I wanted to. I had to redo a lot of the sword because of it. Another hint is to look at it kinda from an angle in perspective view and make sure you're not welding to a different vertex. If all else fails, just put the two verticies on top of each other and use Weld Selected instead.

fleedawg
01-21-2003, 05:51 AM
Oh, and here's my nightly update: leg armor.

I haven't mirrored any yet, but I figured I'd wait till it was all done and then mirror. Well, it's bed time for me.

fleedawg
01-21-2003, 05:53 AM
Oh, and if anybody can quickly tell me how to apply a different texture to the different items, please tell me. Whenever I change one, it changes them all. I haven't learned much about texturing yet, so I'd appreciate anything you can give me.

Troub
01-21-2003, 05:55 AM
Xilica: You will never create new polygons by welding vertices, you'll get rid off some.
iART: never do vertexpushing in meshsmooth, you have to work in edit.mesh, turn on show end result and you'll see what happens to your smoothed objekt.

oups: you ve answered while i was typing, flee. ;)

to answer your question: If those objektes like armor, arm are different objekts it should not be a problem, just select them seperatly and apply any mat to them.
If not, try with different mat_id's. create matarials with the same id's and apply accordingly...

good night

DaliFan
01-21-2003, 10:36 AM
good stuff guys, keep it up :buttrock:

just a update

HiddenShadow
01-21-2003, 12:45 PM
hi i'm new here, i'm not planning on doing the whole tutorial but i'm going to try to make the sword or at least something simular, i had a problem with the seclection box though, in the tutorial it tells you to rotate 22.5, well that screws up the seclection box i guess its called. so when i go to add the bend it twists it out of the shape its supposed to be, anyway heres a pic of what the problem is that little orange seclection box needs to be straight but i'm not sure how, i know most of you arn't to this point but i'm betting someone read through it :)

bur147
01-21-2003, 02:20 PM
Hi HiddenShadow,

I had the same problem.

To sort it out I expanded the Bend modifier on the stack and selected it's Gizmo. I then rotated the Gizmo -22.5 degrees in the Z axis (basically an opposite rotation to the sword). This reset the Gizmo to the right angle.

Hope this make sense.


Cheers, Bur147

HiddenShadow
01-21-2003, 03:23 PM
cool thanks, worked great, i was looking at that earlier but i did'nt want to try it cause i did'nt know what it did :p