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View Full Version : US: Utah attempts to place games in porn category


RobertoOrtiz
01-26-2006, 01:12 PM
Quote:
"Meanwhile in Utah, State Rep. David Hogue (R-Riverton) is taking a different approach. Hogue's HB 0257 would seek to amend an existing Utah statute by adding an "inappropriate violence" clause—such as violence exhibited in some of today's popular video games. Under the existing Utah statute the distribution or showing of pornography and explicit nudity to minors is a felony. Hogue is certainly not the first politician to compare violent video games to pornography. CA Assemblyman Leland Yee and countless others have put playing violent games in the same category as porn or smoking cigarettes.
"

>>LINK<< (http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=11675)


-R

Lordiego01
01-26-2006, 02:53 PM
Yes this is fantastic!!

Just what we need! More Laws and a bigger, more powerfull government telling us what we can or can't do!!

:bounce:

itsallgoode9
01-26-2006, 03:06 PM
i really reaaaaalllllly can't wait till I die so I don't have to hear about stupid ignorant shit like this going on.

JeroenDStout
01-26-2006, 03:22 PM
Hm, in a sense I find the comparison with porn not entirely incorrect. Though I'm not for the amount of legislation we have on that at this moment either, really.

Auctane
01-26-2006, 03:28 PM
Its Utah guys... Utah. You have to be apply for a membership to go to the bar. Of course, they are the ones who have a breast on all their state highway signs.

CelticArtist
01-26-2006, 03:32 PM
my knee jerk reaction is outrage at this pos...however, i'm aware that most european countries actively censor violence in the media, i remember being in canada (i know, not european, but more so than the us) and they had taken power rangers off the air because of the violence and it's being targetted at children. My thoughts essentially are this, how does this law change the existing M rating in any game to a degree that will make a culpable difference? the M rating means that a gamer has to be 18 to buy it and play it, we all know that doesn't exactly happen, however, when was the first time you saw porn? at 18? haha, doubtful. All this does is add another layer of legislation, it doesn't actually change any element of gaming or the way games are designed.

Fides
01-26-2006, 03:52 PM
The Utah legislator is actually trying to tie the ban into obscenity laws, not pornography.

Federal courts have decided that the state can regulate distribution of obscene material, but not possession of it. They have also decided that obscene material is evaluated by the Miller Test. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test)

So first you have to decided if the material is obscene, then regulate it if that's your choice.

Actually, I'm suprised you can buy pornography in Utah.
"Mormon Girls Gone Wild Part XVII"

JeroenDStout
01-26-2006, 04:42 PM
"Mormon Girls Gone Wild Part XVII"
They totally took their shoes off without saying prayers! Wow! I have all parts!

Capel
01-26-2006, 06:04 PM
Actually, I'm suprised you can buy pornography in Utah.
"Mormon Girls Gone Wild Part XVII"

They totally took their shoes off without saying prayers! Wow! I have all parts!

ok guys. let's keep this discussion about the legislation/games aspect here... some of us happen to be Mormon and find comments like these mildly offensive. Besides, discussion of religion on these forums is prohibited, isn't it?

RobertoOrtiz
01-26-2006, 06:10 PM
People keep religion OFF THE THREAD.


-R

mummey
01-26-2006, 06:11 PM
There's actually PEOPLE in Utah!?! ;)

gruvsyco
01-26-2006, 06:16 PM
sweet! if video games = porn, I can't wait to see Bloodrayne 3 :P.

Matt Leishman
01-26-2006, 09:20 PM
Its Utah guys... Utah. You have to be apply for a membership to go to the bar. Of course, they are the ones who have a breast on all their state highway signs.

its a beehive

mummey
01-26-2006, 10:01 PM
sweet! if video games = porn, I can't wait to see Bloodrayne 3 :P.

I hear its based on the film. :twisted:

Rhs_CG
01-26-2006, 11:55 PM
People keep religion OFF THE THREAD.


-R

Amen. ;-)

(sorry, had to say it)

bohmanart
01-27-2006, 01:59 AM
There's actually PEOPLE in Utah!?! ;)

Believe it or not... Utah is actually the 5th fastest growing state in the country!


NOW ON TO WHY I'M REALLY POSTING:

When the game "25 to Life" came out, State Rep. David Hogue and others were outraged b/c of the game and started all this. (The game was also made right here in Salt Lake.)

There was a big newscast on the whole deal a while back.

Rhs_CG
01-27-2006, 04:04 AM
Yeah, it's amazing how involved Salt Lake City/Utah are in the games industry. 10% of Microsoft's game division is located in Salt Lake.

BTW, shoudn't this thread's title be changed? The issue is violent games being in catagory as porn (concerning restrictions, laws, etc), and its not being classified as pornography. The title is a bit mis-leading.

bohmanart
01-27-2006, 05:14 AM
10% of Microsoft's game division is located in Salt Lake.

That's pretty interesting. You don't happen to know what studio(s) the 10% is made up of?

Matt Leishman
01-27-2006, 05:22 AM
Up until last year, yes, Microsoft had a studio in SLC that did great work ... i didn't know about the whole 10% thing. But Microsoft sold of that office to Take 2 interactive, the company is now IndieBuilt www.indiebuilt.com (http://www.indiebuilt.com) ... and its still located up by the airport.

grantimus
01-27-2006, 08:34 AM
Yeah, it's amazing how involved Salt Lake City/Utah are in the games industry. 10% of Microsoft's game division is located in Salt Lake.


Yeah and its not just IndieBuilt (formerly microsoft), there are a lot of other game studios too. Including Sensory Sweep, Headgate, Smart Bomb, Saphire, Glyphx, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few others I haven't heard of.

As for non gaming work, there is a little bit of that out here too. There are several scanning/modeling companies like Zygote, DAZ, and 3D Recon.

Sure there aren't any companies as large as EA, Ubi Soft, ILM, or Weta Digital. But, if you want to find 3D Work in Utah you won't have to look very far.

JeroenDStout
01-27-2006, 12:24 PM
That's pretty interesting. You don't happen to know what studio(s) the 10% is made up of?
Complaints department, they're the ones who handle your 'Do you want to send an error report?'-files.

rakmaya
01-27-2006, 02:43 PM
Everyone is selfish in this world. Politicians just wanted to say that they are all too strict about games, movies and all. On the otherhand, it is ok for them to have illegal connections and affairs.

It is all in the interest of their pride and prosperity and not the country or the people. If 90% percent of the people in the state doesn't like games, then the politician will also side their part even if it doesn't have any violence.

After all people doesn't become politicians to make the country better, just to make themselves better like in all jobs.

Unfortunately I don't care what anyone else says. As long as it fit into my perspective of right and wrong, I will use it. Hence these stupid laws doesn't effect me in anyway. Just like that if anyone wants to get a game, they can. If anyone wants to get movies they can. Of course they too know well. Then the only real reason for such measures is to get themselves elected again.

lovisx
01-27-2006, 02:53 PM
http://toronto.24hrs.ca/News/2006/01/27/1413648-sun.html

thought this would be interesting to some.

TheNeverman
01-27-2006, 05:34 PM
Dosen't Sierra have office in SLC?




That's pretty interesting. You don't happen to know what studio(s) the 10% is made up of?

DorkmanScott
01-27-2006, 05:42 PM
i really reaaaaalllllly can't wait till I die so I don't have to hear about stupid ignorant shit like this going on.

OMG! VIOLENT GAMES LEAD TO SUICIDE! :rolleyes:

Grim Beefer
01-27-2006, 07:06 PM
The Utah legislator is actually trying to tie the ban into obscenity laws, not pornography.

"Obsenity" as a legal term developed out of the attempt to define pornography (http://www.answers.com/topic/obscenity) (scroll down to the Columbia University entry). On a funnier note, I believe that Robocop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robocop) was the only film in American history rated "X" for violence (could have been another one since).

TheNeverman
01-27-2006, 07:23 PM
On a funnier note, I believe that Robocop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robocop) was the only film in American history rated "X" for violence (could have been another one since).

What's funny about gratitious violence?

mummey
01-27-2006, 07:54 PM
What's funny about gratitious violence?

That for a rating system that supposedly rates films based on violence and sex, there has only been one film that has been given its strongest restriction for its violent content.

Doctor Nick
01-27-2006, 07:56 PM
i really reaaaaalllllly can't wait till I die so I don't have to hear about stupid ignorant shit like this going on.

unless you go to hell... in that case it might just be your punishment:D

JeroenDStout
01-27-2006, 08:52 PM
What's funny about gratitious violence?
The faces people make :scream:

Rhs_CG
01-27-2006, 09:16 PM
That's pretty interesting. You don't happen to know what studio(s) the 10% is made up of?

All I know is that they worked on some of the XBox games, though I can't remember which ones. I went to a couple of Salt Lake Maya User group meetings a couple of years ago, and met a few of them.

Fides
01-27-2006, 09:24 PM
That for a rating system that supposedly rates films based on violence and sex, there has only been one film that has been given its strongest restriction for its violent content.

Nonsense. The Street Fighter(violence),Death Wish 3(violence),Clockwork Orange(violent sex) were given X ratings. I'm sure there's more.

strangelife
01-27-2006, 10:28 PM
Aah...who knows. For a country that's addicted to sex and violence, maybe tempering it through some form of regulation could be a good thing. Though, potentially a bit of hypocrisy if film studios can get away with laughable regulations by the MPAA. Who would do the regulating and what standards would they apply? A close look into this could produce some positives, but I'd sure as hell treat any legislation with the utmost suspicion.

bohmanart
01-28-2006, 01:12 AM
All I know is that they worked on some of the XBox games, though I can't remember which ones. I went to a couple of Salt Lake Maya User group meetings a couple of years ago, and met a few of them.

Ever heard of Incognito Studios? They're the only one's I know about out here. They were out sourced by SONY to develop such games as 'Twisted Metal Black and others'.

Not many people have heard of them since they do not want to be known publicly, hence their name. Makes me wonder if the reason is... because of things like the controversy going on now with violent games.

Anyway, I know of a person that used to work for them and has said that Utah is a good place to find work in the industry. So, I moved all the way out here from S. Carolina in hopes that it might happen some day.

mummey
01-28-2006, 01:46 AM
Nonsense. ,Death Wish 3(violence),Clockwork Orange(violent sex) were given X ratings. I'm sure there's more.

The Street Fighter(violence) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111301/) - PG13
Death Wish 3(violence) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089003/) - X originally, R on appeal
Clockwork Orange(violent sex) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066921/) - X originally, R on appeal

So out of the three you named. One wasn't ever X (or even close), and another was X due to its sexual content, which was my point.

Out of the entire history of the US rating system (began in 1968), you've found two films that were at one point rating X, but not released to the public in that form. You've made my point for me. :)

Fides
01-28-2006, 02:44 AM
The Street Fighter(violence) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111301/) - PG13
Death Wish 3(violence) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089003/) - X originally, R on appeal
Clockwork Orange(violent sex) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066921/) - X originally, R on appeal

So out of the three you named. One wasn't ever X (or even close), and another was X due to its sexual content, which was my point.

Out of the entire history of the US rating system (began in 1968), you've found two films that were at one point rating X, but not released to the public in that form. You've made my point for me. :)

Wrong Street Fighter, 1974 with the most awesome Sonny Chiba.

Clockwork Orange was rated X not because of sexual content, but because of sexual violence. The sex was rather tame. Secondly, Robocop was originally rated an X and then released as an R after editing, so using your logic(appeal), it was never X rated. And there have been a number of movies, certainly more than 2, that that's happened to, prior to 1986.

Either way, based on your original statement, your incorrect.

Grim Beefer
01-28-2006, 03:51 AM
Wrong Street Fighter, 1974 with the most awesome Sonny Chiba.

Clockwork Orange was rated X not because of sexual content, but because of sexual violence. The sex was rather tame. Secondly, Robocop was originally rated an X and then released as an R after editing, so using your logic(appeal), it was never X rated. And there have been a number of movies, certainly more than 2, that that's happened to, prior to 1986.

Either way, based on your statement, your not correct.

I think you have to put some of it in context. A Clockwork Orange contained plenty of full frontal nudity along with a time-lapsed sex scene that was pretty provacative for the time; sexual violence, some would argue, is the worst kind of sex on film. "The Street Fighter" aparently recieved it's harsh rating partly because some guy gets his penis ripped off; while violent, putting any kind of penis in your film will automatically saddle it with harsher ratings (meaning I think it still counts as being "sexually" taboo in our male-centric society - penises... oh no!). The Robocop statement was based on heresay, and it doesn't surprise me that plenty of movies have been nudged to tone it down over the years. I think Robocop merits attention because it was a such a mainstream movie compared to these others, and overall violence has been permitted much more than sexual content into our mainstream media.

hellgatemedia
01-28-2006, 03:55 PM
This makes me very angry. They invaded Hollywood, now everyone is afraid to do rated R movies, and we have a ton of PG-13 garbage. When a movie that's R rated, which is what the people want, actually comes out, it does phenomenal, and the PG-13 all bombs.
Pick up a CD these days, and chances are it's got lyrics about drugs, suicide, rape, gang related offenses, and who knows what else. You may not like it,but 50 Cent, Eminmen, that's the kind of stuff that sells today. I'm not just attacking Gangster Rap, believe me I understand we have our fair share of whiny alternative rockers who want to slit their wrists to make their alleged "pain" go away. But hey, if we follow these people's model, we should go get a wholesome singer, a Mr. Rogers type, make some songs about birds, and streaming rivers, and watch the CD sell 2 copies. We aren't a nation of families like the cleavers any more, and to expect our country to revert back to a society that is that naive and "clean" is just absolutely absurd. I'm sick and tired of politicians who have no realistic understanding of society, politicians who hear that a mod for a game on the PC has sex in it, so they just assume that every version of the game has the mod, and ban all of them.
Something like this makes me want to go out and get financing to produce the most violent, nudity filled video game I could possibly make. You know, make an FPS featuring gun toting strippers. And I'll send free copies to the entire legislative branch of Utah.

lednuzb
01-28-2006, 04:08 PM
This may be out of order, but it seems that everyone has forgotten about Avalanche Software (http://www.avalanchesoftware.com) that is now a Disney studio for Buena Vista Games. We did the Tak series, the Chicken Little game, 25 to Life, and a bunch of others. We are in downtown SLC.

Fides
01-28-2006, 04:31 PM
They invaded Hollywood, now everyone is afraid to do rated R movies, and we have a ton of PG-13 garbage. When a movie that's R rated, which is what the people want, actually comes out, it does phenomenal, and the PG-13 all bombs.

I don't think you know how the rating system works.

Anyway, I think only one of the top grossing movies of 2005 was R, Wedding Crashers.
http://www.jsonline.com/onwisconsin/movies/dec05/381191.asp


Top-grossing movies of 2005


1."Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith"

$380.27 million

2."Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire"

$263.22 million**

3."War of the Worlds"

$234.28 million

4."Wedding Crashers"

$209.17 million**

5."Charlie and the Chocolate Factory"

$206.46 million

6."Batman Begins"

$205.34 million

7."Madagascar"

$193.14 million

8."Mr. & Mrs. Smith"

$186.34 million

9."Hitch"

$177.58 million

10.The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe

$165.14 million**

TheNeverman
01-29-2006, 04:30 AM
Something like this makes me want to go out and get financing to produce the most violent, nudity filled video game I could possibly make. You know, make an FPS featuring gun toting strippers. And I'll send free copies to the entire legislative branch of Utah.


And what is it you hope to achieve by embracing such rubbish? Why do you have this attitude that because we 'can' we necessarily 'should'? Continuing to bring this type of material to the mainstream certainly isn't advancing civilization...

hellgatemedia
01-29-2006, 01:22 PM
Neverman, I didn't mean I really wanted to do that. It was an absurd statement in response to an absurd action. I figured it would be taken as such, at least that was the intent.
Although I'm sure 13 year olds across the nation would love it, if I was to ever desgn a game, sadly, the gun toting strippers wouldn't be my first idea.

Cyborgguineapig
01-29-2006, 09:49 PM
There were strippers in Duke nukem and I must have been like 12 or 13 when I got my hands on it.

I know at least six people my age who are troublemakers, go against their parents wishes purposely, are rude and break the most laws yet they were raised under very strict roofs where the mother would cover the eyes of the 18 yr old son when they walked past a victorias secret store in the mall. Another girl I know raised in the same setting became pregnant at the age of 16.

Basically all these laws and restrictions placed on youth will only further the amount of rebelliousness in them. I'd say that 2/3 of young people will drink before they are 21 and they do it because theres a thrill in doing it illegally. To young adults outside the states who can drink at the age of 18 or younger and in general have less rediculous restrictions, tey often turn out more mature and are less likely to break laws than US kids.

Either way these politicians and laywers are constantly forgetting to look at my generation as an example(currently in there early 20's). We were raised on on violent games and were exposed to violent/sexual content but ironically we arn't as bad as the generation coming up behind me . You see 14 yr olds now dressing like 20 yr old gals these days and I see more younger people being brat like.. That must be pixelated video game breast fault too.:rolleyes:

magron
01-30-2006, 02:33 AM
Seems as everyone is saying that its the end of the world that we know it. Should games be having a 'legal' rating such as movies? Ofcourse, would be stupid not to. But the same labels on all sorts of entertainment and make it illegal to actually purchase with the intent of giving it to minors or possessing it. Its not like the cops would chase around for it anyway.

People drink under the age of 21 because its illegal? Err.. When I grew up we started at the age of 13 because we wanted to get drunk/affected by the liqour not because it was illegal. I'd personally be very surprised to see that to be true.

Pornography? Violence? Both have bad sides but todays society is a lot more sexual than just 10 years ago. As someone mentioned youll have pre-teenagers dress sexually provacative. The cover of a 'normal' magazine today tend to be more risque than Playboy was on the 70's. You have kids today than exhibit more violent behaviors than when I was a kid (1980's). Is it medias fault? Sure, why not.. is it society's fault? Yep. Is it _your_ fault? Yep.

m

phexitol
01-30-2006, 05:23 AM
The Street Fighter (AKA Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073756/

Here's the one Fides was talking about.

berice
01-30-2006, 05:28 AM
Id have to say, as far as my answer goes, is to stop blaming media for the actions of people.

Recently in south florida, 3 teenagers were arrested for the death of a homeless man, and the beatings of several others with baseball bats and paintball guns. There hasnt been a media blame yet. There is a psycological evaluation in progress, but who wants to bet that these teenagers will blame games or movies on their behavior....I cant even come up with a word that could describe such blatently evil people. I dont care what their "evaluation" says when its all said and done, from the footage that was captured by security tapes, they just ran up to those homeless people and beat the life out of them without warrent. Media didnt cause it. These kids are either nuts > Crazy > psychopathic > whatever or just plain evil. And a video game hasnt caused it, or at least hasnt been blamed....yet...since the assualts and the one murder were done with bats and paintball guns, their lawyers could say it was because of Baseball games and Paintball games. Then what happens next, No more sports games, which are like what 30 percent of the game industry. Then I cant take my nephew to a Yankees game, because baseball is too violent for kids. THIS WAS ONE HECK OF A RANT.


Unfortunetly, as most people know, there is no simple solution. People need to take responsability for their actions. They could abolish all violent games and eventually, somewhere down the line something else would come up like if a game causes an epileptic seizure, which is a horrible thing and nothing to joke about, then any game with rapid movement and flashing colors could be outlawed.

About the Rockstar Hot coffee nonsense for a sec, I know its old news, but isnt it illegal to reverse engineer the source code of software or at least a violation of some kind of law or rule or regulation or whatever. Especially since it was used against the company in a malicious way. It doesnt matter what any one person personally thinks of that company, but its all because of HACKING which is illegal. I mean If you could hack the code of a tomb raider game and see the protaginist without an outfit, shouldnt it be a big deal too? Wait that did happen or at least was claimed to happen like 10 years ago on the PC, or so people were told. I dont know if that was ever actually true, but the point stands that if Lara Croft were to get nude in a game, but you had to reverse engineer or HACK into the game to do it, then it would be in violation of the liscense agreement that the purchasing party agreed to after buying the game and opening the case.

Violent Games: In a way most games that arent either strictly racing or puzzle games can be catagorized as violent. EX: Super Mario pouncing on a Koopa Troopa with his butt is a violent act. As is shooting a character in the face at close range with a gun in a game. Im not trying to pick on anyhing in particular. Even Football games are technically violent, players get tackeld. It may not have gore, it may be a game, in real life and in a game world, but it is still an act of violence, I watch football, people get hurt...especially when they are dumb enough to run on to a field and harass the players in the middle of the game and the player tackles and hurts that person, which was kind of funny, but it was an act of violence. Car battle games = road rage violence. Its all relative and its...well all moot. I mean yeah its about the gore and the sex, but in fairness if all bloody violent gory sex filled games are gone, and only games like Super Mario and Crash Bandicoot for example are the only ones around, and a teen jumps on a kid and hurts the kid in some way, wahts to stop the parents from getting a lawer and having a lawsuit filed against the parent company for allowing such a horrible and deploring act to exist in a game, i.e. jumping on an enemy to get rid of it or get points or berries or mushrooms or coins or whatever.

The bottom line is that Politicians dont care and lawyers dont care. I say abolish all the lawyers, but thats a sidenote for a previous discussion. Politicians and Lawyers dont care, because they dont know about games. And they dont want to know. Politicians want power and lawyers want money and a reputation of being intimidating and powerful to get more money. Even if that means bringing down whatever they have to to get it. Like the nut jobs years back that claimed that all disney animated features had hidden subliminal messages and hidden porn and sex images and all that crap that never existed. Granted that there was no proof, but its kind of the same even though its not at all....man im tired.

what was i saying...

oh yeah..

Go Yankees!

Aooogah
01-30-2006, 07:52 AM
To paraphrase Morgan Webb: "Developers, if you're going to make a game so controversial that it sets the industry back twenty years, please, please, please, don't make it suck."

SantoAnderson
01-31-2006, 02:36 AM
Why is this even making national news? Riverton's like two gas stations and an Arby's.

Some elected officials direct by their morals, sorry. I'm a Utahn, and I in no way share this same point of view. Free speech is free speech, and if I hear something that I don't like I don't listen to it. I don't try to supress that individual's right to speak. I mean there was that Avalanche Software game that came out recently, ah, it was a GTA ripoff, um, 25 to life. This game was made in Salt Lake. This game deserves to be banned. Not because of it's content, but only because the game sucks. I as a member of the LDS church understand that people do things I don't agree with, but I cannot control them, and to be honest, I could care less.

It's unfortunate that human nature is to fear change and refuse to accept it. We don't embrace change and diversity. There have been some really detrimental changes that have been enacted in human history. So many occur in our daily lives that it's difficult to put our finger on that one big specific screw-up that still permiates in society and effects our daily lives. Yet thankfully big, positive changes have occured that have left a positive impression on the world. The printing press, the Renaissance, the Lutheran upheaval, Anti-Slavery laws, etc. All these things have been controversial in their relative time periods, and the presiding authorities of these times feared change and had they succeeded in conviction the present earth would be darker because of it.

I am in no way saying that videogames are capable of enacting social change like the Renaissance, but they, like the many other small miracles that occur every second of every hour of every day contribute to the large hodge podge of Human Civilization.

In short, I'm a Mormon guy who accepts diversity. Not to toot my own horn, but I've spent a large amount of time living outside of the States and have learned that the world does not revolve around me. (A trait vacant to those who's post resemble, "Har Har! Those Crazy Mormons!") The world is different, duh. Just please, in the future, if you don't like making omelets, stay away from the eggs.

Grim Beefer
01-31-2006, 07:31 PM
Why is this even making national news?

I think the only reason this could possibly be important is that is sets another awful precedent, but otherwise I would agree with you.

Menaries
02-01-2006, 06:36 AM
SantoAnderson, I hope I don't offend, but I just want to better understand what you're trying to say. You of all people on this thread (a Mormon living in Utah) seem to be able to shed some insight on the sociological reasons behind this legislator’s actions. But, having an acquaintance who is Mormon, I have some literature and found parts of your post to be contrary to your prophet's teachings.



I found this statement: "We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things." -Joseph Smith



Isn't your statement concerning acceptance of diversity in relation to violent or pornographic video games contrary to your prophet's teachings or did I misunderstand you? Or do I misunderstand the statement from Joseph Smith? Might the legislator from Utah understand your prophet's statement the same way I did?

blinxpro
02-11-2006, 03:36 PM
SantoAnderson, I hope I don't offend, but I just want to better understand what you're trying to say. You of all people on this thread (a Mormon living in Utah) seem to be able to shed some insight on the sociological reasons behind this legislator’s actions. But, having an acquaintance who is Mormon, I have some literature and found parts of your post to be contrary to your prophet's teachings.



I found this statement: "We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things." -Joseph Smith



Isn't your statement concerning acceptance of diversity in relation to violent or pornographic video games contrary to your prophet's teachings or did I misunderstand you? Or do I misunderstand the statement from Joseph Smith? Might the legislator from Utah understand your prophet's statement the same way I did?

Just because he said that he "accepts diversity" does not mean that he supports or encourages violent or pornographic video games. For example I don't drink, but I know that other people do. I "accept" that they have a right to drink if they choose to. I will not stand in there way, BUT I will not support or encourage drinking. I, like everyone else, am a flawed human being and I have gone against my own beliefs in the past. Those mistakes in my past do not affect my beliefs.

He never said he was perfect. So if in fact he does support it (violent games) fine, he is a flawed human like the rest of us. He is exercising his free agency.

Many of us have certain beliefs or guidelines that we truly believe in, but are sometimes difficult to hold fast to.

I'm guessing that the average person considers themselves a law abiding citizen. Most people try to follow the rules and laws to the best of their ability. If a law abiding citizen speeds on the freeway to get to an important meeting on time is he/she no longer a law abiding citizen? They chose to break the law didn't they? Over-all they try and strive to keep the law.

We are not perfect.


Three words:

REPENTANCE FORGIVENESS SALVATION

TheNeverman
02-12-2006, 04:59 AM
well said blinxpro...

Menaries
02-13-2006, 04:08 AM
blinxpro, thanks for explanation.

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02-13-2006, 04:08 AM
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