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Vizfizz
01-21-2006, 11:57 PM
Hey everyone. I'm conducting a poll to find out what your favorite EI plugins are. I can't list everything...but I will put up the big ones. If your favorite plugin isn't on the list, mark down "other" and tell us which you think is best. I'll also put up a favorite shader poll soon.

Brian

Reuben5150
01-22-2006, 12:13 AM
Thats such a tough question, but i guess LightRig, i know with the advent of illuminator gel's and GI sky maps somewhat detracts from its "must have" status, but its still a usefull plugin and the one i probably use most apart from Ubershape ;)


Reuben

Vizfizz
01-22-2006, 12:18 AM
Well.. I wanted to make it hard. :) Multiple choice makes it too easy. Besides, there's a method to my madness.

Reuben5150
01-22-2006, 12:24 AM
Besides, there's a method to my madness.

Yes i thought as much LOL !

Vizfizz
01-22-2006, 12:28 AM
Reuben... you little mind reader..

fahl5
01-22-2006, 01:20 AM
see my next posting

kevmo
01-22-2006, 01:48 AM
Mrs. Bebel is not on the list?

fahl5
01-22-2006, 02:08 AM
I know I realy haven't worked yet with most of the mentioned plugs. But not only because it was one of my first used EI-plugs at all I realy love Zeus because with Lightnings like this evrybody knows the movie is becoming more than just realistic but fantastic in a magical sense.
Steffen

Vizfizz
01-22-2006, 06:35 AM
Mrs. Bebel is not on the list?


You're right Kevin, I totally forgot about Mrs. Bebel.. That's a great plugin too.

Brian

alexentremont
01-22-2006, 07:30 PM
I love MForge. It is a great multi-purpose shading system (for metals, car paint, and many other multi-layer materials), but also a nice way to set up reactive masks.

Oops, I just saw there was a separate poll for shaders. Sorry...

ChiralSym
01-22-2006, 10:45 PM
Slatemaker! (From Northern Lights 3D)

Sincerely,
--ChiralSym

SteveW928
01-23-2006, 12:40 AM
I have done quite a bit of architectural stuff in the past.... so I'd have to say Onyx TreePro and Storm top my list. I guess for the average person, these are not as much of a 'core' type plugin. In my toolkit, I'd have to give that award to Mrs Bebel as well... very useful for just about anyone who does 3D work.

Onyx Tree Storm (http://www.onyxtree.com/storme.html)
Mrs Bebel (http://www.konkeptoine.com/)

-Steve

AVTPro
01-23-2006, 05:05 PM
Ok this one is harder to answer than shaders. First there's a lot of plugs that arent listed. Moreso, there's plugs that aren't for sale anymore that I still love. There's also plugs that I haven't repurchased since the OSX upgraded that really took a bite out of which I can use without switching back to OS9. I won't mention the plugs that are in development that I use (NDA). Then there's plugs that have funtionality essential to my pipeline but not really eyecandy.

My vote is...Undecided, non-Party. :love:

Vizfizz
01-23-2006, 05:21 PM
Unfortunately, I can only list 10 poll questions at a time.

Brian

AzOne
01-23-2006, 05:44 PM
And let us not forget Image2Mesh. Been using it since before it became free. Indispensable. Just hope future changes to EI won't break it. It would be great if some sort of preview ability like in Cybermesh could be in I2M.

manuel
01-26-2006, 10:36 PM
Well, it just had to be Encage for me. It's far from perfect and I hope EITG will integrate sub-d's in EIAS 7, but until then, Encage plugs the gap.

NorthernLights
01-27-2006, 03:59 PM
I'd post a poll but this is more of an open-ended question.
What sort of plugin do you need that doesn't already exist?
(John Knoll buttons don't count :D )

Vizfizz
01-27-2006, 05:25 PM
Hey Blair,

I'd like to see something like Setup Machine or Final Rig 2 for EI. Some type of plugin that assists in the character/skeleton rigging process.

Reuben5150
01-27-2006, 07:14 PM
Here's one off the top of my head :wise:

A "bridge" plugin, like the connection plug between Treestorm and EI that allows you to use any modeler that supports .Fact, so you can model-save and have a one-click update in EI.

Or i guess the other option would be to have a "refresh" button in the project window for each group, it would be so much better than having re-load the whole project.


Reuben

halfworld
01-30-2006, 07:03 PM
This is more of a feature request for ubershape, but I would like it to be able to create random arrays of shapes (cubes for example for a cityscape).

I'd find it useful for my arch vis work (home made ref maps etc). I think there is a plug-in like this for C4D but i forget its name... So perhaps a one trick pony plug that only does this with cubes...

anyhoo,
Ian

Reuben5150
01-30-2006, 08:07 PM
Which reminds me, would still really REALLY ! like someone to write an EI version of the Greeble plugin :thumbsup:

AzOne
01-31-2006, 11:52 AM
I agree! In case anyone is wondering what Reuben is referring to, see:

http://www.richardrosenman.com/greeble.htm

Alternatively, would NL3D's Assimilator Plug-in do something similar?

NorthernLights
01-31-2006, 03:27 PM
Actually, Placer Deposit would probably be able to do what this plugin does. Looks to me like the greeble thing is limited to cuboids. PD can put anything on a surface.

Assimilator builds pipe networks or rather 3D networks of interconnected objects. You could probably use it in certain cases where you need a lot of subconcious detail.

Reuben5150
01-31-2006, 04:05 PM
The difference with Placer/Assimilator is you have to "feed" it geometry, Greeble generates it.

You have lots of control over the generation, size, extrusion depth, etc, with a choice of "widgits", also has random seed control and you can bevel the extrusions

Main application for this is things like spaceship hulls and places where you would want to add "interesting" detail.

You can build a complete city from a simple plane with a few clicks with this plugin, very cool.

I collected some examples and info on this a while back, i'll see i can find it.


Reuben

NorthernLights
02-01-2006, 04:41 PM
My feeling on automatic anything is that invariably an art director will come along and say "Change this to that" and you'll pound your head on the keyboard because there isn't a one-click solution for it.

Vizfizz
02-01-2006, 04:47 PM
I came up with a similar idea many years ago for a plugin/shader combo, while at ILM, that would use reactive shader techniques to paint and generate "Armour" on models. Since I was working on a certain "space opera", I thought it would be nice to be able to define an area on a model through strength maps and the shader would produce various random hull patterns for space ships. The plugin would supplement the surface with various geometric detail based on the strength map. (Like your greeble plug) Ultimately, this system would have the ability to export out texture maps to photoshop so you could modify the end result.

Vizfizz
02-01-2006, 04:52 PM
My feeling on automatic anything is that invariably an art director will come along and say "Change this to that" and you'll pound your head on the keyboard because there isn't a one-click solution for it.

Maybe true Blair, but anything that helps reduce the workload helps. Particularly if its for subconscious detail.

Reuben5150
02-01-2006, 05:49 PM
My feeling on automatic anything is that invariably an art director will come along and say "Change this to that" and you'll pound your head on the keyboard because there isn't a one-click solution for it.

Last edited by Vizfizz : Today at 04:51 PM.

Why's this been edited ?

Blair, a few clicks yes, but i wasn't counting the interactive reatime controls :)

We are not ALL in search of the "magic button" you know.



Reuben

Guet-Apens
02-01-2006, 06:34 PM
Just a PlacerGreebleDeposit test with GI :)
Have fun.

Vizfizz
02-01-2006, 06:51 PM
Last edited by Vizfizz : Today at 04:51 PM.

Why's this been edited ?

Blair, a few clicks yes, but i wasn't counting the interactive reatime controls :)

We are not ALL in search of the "magic button" you know.



Reuben


That was totally accidental. I didn't remove or modify anything from Blair's post. I was attempting to quote him and I clicked edit instead. As moderator I have that power. When I saved it.. I realized what I did and reposted.

NorthernLights
02-02-2006, 03:37 PM
As an artist, it's important for you to try to understand that "a few clicks" usually translates to potentially months of work for the programmer. Some of us get frustrated when our hard work is devalued at the cash register and criticized during its use and yet the customer often makes back their investment several times over.

The state of the industry reflects the fact that making the software cheaper doesn't result in a more successful software company. It's gotten to the point where only huge corporations can afford to throw money down the 3D hole because they can use other products as cash cows.

*sigh* I'll go back to bed now.

Reuben5150
02-02-2006, 04:12 PM
Yes i understand that, is the greeble plugin worth the time and effort ? probably not.

The closest thing to greeble is actually Mrs Bebel, thats why i already suggested some greeble-like features for that.


Reuben

kevmo
02-02-2006, 04:24 PM
Hey dude:

I think you've done quite well designing and creating your software.
And I'm pleased with Dante and Placer and yes they have paid for themselves already.
Speaking for myself, there is frustration on both sides: in my case trying to get an idea out of my head and into a computer while the clock is ticking (not always the case!) and someone asking "are we there yet? are we there yet?"
but that's always going to happen, and the more I learn and know what works and doesn't the better artist I will become, and yeah the faster I can work and get paid & everyones happy.
for now!

I think there is always room for improvement on both sides,
so don't let things get you down.

Reuben5150
02-02-2006, 05:20 PM
Hey dude:

I think you've done quite well designing and creating your software.
And I'm pleased with Dante and Placer and yes they have paid for themselves already.




Just quite well ? :)

Yeah i have volumes 1,2,3 and Blaster, they are all great plugins, and btw, i haven't made a single penny from them :D


Reuben

Vizfizz
02-02-2006, 05:35 PM
Blair has a good point though. The margins within the mid and high range 3D packages are razor thin. Its even more difficult when you consider the niche nature of EIAS. In order to improve the situation for our programmers and 3rd party vendors, we have to find inventive ways to increase marketshare and one of the best ways of increasing marketshare is to form stronger software communities. Hence this forum. Stronger communities help promote product awareness, this inturn leads to new products by vendors, which increases the allure of EIAS. A stronger EITG means more features in the main package and increases competition for the 3D marketplace in general. Competition helps prevent a monopoly which ultimately, if allowed to be established, is actually a bad thing for the user....

<cough>

Autodesk!

kevmo
02-02-2006, 06:16 PM
Just quite well ? :)

Yeah i have volumes 1,2,3 and Blaster, they are all great plugins, and btw, i haven't made a single penny from them :D


Reuben

Yeah, considering EIs history (the Play years). :banghead:

Well, they're paid, but no profits as of yet - soon I hope :)

it's all gravy from here on :thumbsup:

AVTPro
02-04-2006, 07:02 AM
Blair has a good point though. The margins within the mid and high range 3D packages are razor thin. Its even more difficult when you consider the niche nature of EIAS. In order to improve the situation for our programmers and 3rd party vendors, we have to find inventive ways to increase marketshare and one of the best ways of increasing marketshare is to form stronger software communities. Hence this forum. Stronger communities help promote product awareness, this inturn leads to new products by vendors, which increases the allure of EIAS. A stronger EITG means more features in the main package and increases competition for the 3D marketplace in general. Competition helps prevent a monopoly which ultimately, if allowed to be established, is actually a bad thing for the user....

<cough>

Autodesk!


I tried to repond to this eariier but the service was so busy it wouldn't post...So I blogged. Opss excuse. I have been going blog bonkers lately.


http://web.mac.com/avtpro5/iWeb/Site/Blog/E9163DC2-9533-11DA-91DA-0030657CE1C0.html

Vizfizz
02-04-2006, 07:26 AM
Hey Alonzo...

Great commentary. Its really amazing the kind of flack I've gotten from my peers for starting this forum. Heck, for using EI in general. I agree with you. The CG community as a whole tends to get overly wrapped up in buzz words and technologies that really aren't very productive in an actual work environment. Individual egos and posturing is something that I have to deal with on a constant basis.

Brand loyalty is a really strange thing to observe. I'll admit, I'm brand loyal. But here's the thing. I study my purchases very carefully and make decisions based off very careful consideration for myself. Luckily, I'm not a zealot towards others. I fully acknowledge that EIAS isn't going to appeal to everyone, that's because peoples minds think differently. My point with this forum, however, isn't to "convert" other users because they've already gone through their own decision making process and once that happens, change is difficult. Heck, one's choice of software is practically like choosing a religion. Weird but true. We've seen it time and time again. Humans like being defined by all kinds of things.

Thing is, there's a whole psychology behind the archtype of the "underdog" and of the "outcast". EI kinda suffers from both. Thanks to its perverbial fall from grace, its easy to fall into a protective shell and say we're John Knoll's secret weapon. Thing is, we kind of use that like a little kid telling the class bully that our big brother is gonna kick your butt. Maybe its time we get out of the isolationistic shell and take a stand. EIAS is an awesome program. I see no harm in promoting that.

Its my opinion that EITG appeal to its community. Get involved. Become more personable. If we want to counter the elitism in the film and arts industry, being secretive isn't the way to do it. Apple with all of its elitism finally realized that it was time to stop being so exclusive .That's why we have intel chips inside our machines now. Did the world come to an end? Nope. Its all about finding that balance between being something desireable and elite and something appealing and human.

Vizfizz
02-04-2006, 07:36 AM
Oh yah..

I also agree with you about providing entry level products. They are very important to younger and newer users.

What's the expression?

Hook em while their young?

Blur1
02-04-2006, 01:40 PM
Oh yah..

I also agree with you about providing entry level products. They are very important to younger and newer users.

What's the expression?

Hook em while their young?

I am not meaning to troll here, but i just want to point out, that I think Alex Lindsay tried to do just that with the 3D Toolkit and it seems to have fizzled. Perhaps it kept EI alive a bit longer and that may have been what was important. Why is the 3D Toolkit not updated and promoted any more? Well it's obviously partly due to Alex's association with C4D, which I ended up buying, but only with the release of R9, which is IMO the first version that seems worth swapping to if you are coming from EI.

Vizfizz
02-04-2006, 05:46 PM
I am not meaning to troll here, but i just want to point out, that I think Alex Lindsay tried to do just that with the 3D Toolkit and it seems to have fizzled. Perhaps it kept EI alive a bit longer and that may have been what was important. Why is the 3D Toolkit not updated and promoted any more? Well it's obviously partly due to Alex's association with C4D, which I ended up buying, but only with the release of R9, which is IMO the first version that seems worth swapping to if you are coming from EI.


Blur1,

You're only asking honest questions. Some questions, however, I can not answer. Alex Lindsay has a wonderful thing going and he's done some great things for the EI community. However, Alex is also a business man and has some large ambitions that exceed reselling repackaged old code. Its a natural evolution for him. Pixel Corps is probably a better business model for him and appeals to his internal goals.

As for "keeping EI alive a little longer", I don't think we have to worry about that any more. Like Apple computer, the death bell has rung a dozen times or more for EI and they're still kicking. Who knows, maybe some day someone will buy them again or perhaps they'll continue to grow. I don't try to speculate, I can only affect and deal with the here and now.

Congrats on your purchase of C4D. Another great package. I use it too.

Blur1
02-04-2006, 06:10 PM
Blur1,

Congrats on your purchase of C4D. Another great package. I use it too.

I'm interested in the idea of using both EIAS and C4D for different tasks (and Maya) but at the moment it's just C4D.

Michael

Vizfizz
02-04-2006, 06:12 PM
With FBX that is now a possibility. Both packages implementations are pretty good.

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