PDA

View Full Version : Final Render - speed and splotches?


Jesp
01-19-2006, 08:26 AM
Hi

This has probably been discussed somewhere in the forum, but just started a new thread.

Though the 9.5 and AR2.5 release is really good with the new area lights and improved speed and everything, I'm still not too pleased. This is of course compared to Vray which I have experience with also.

I tried the kitchen scene from the thread you probably know with both AR and Vray. In the Vray case I had almost reflection on all kitchen elements, floor and table etc and many with blurry. Despite having 3 Vray lights it was still faster than the AR and almost artifact free.
The artifacts is really easy to get rid of with relatively few parameter changes in Vray.

I know you can trick your way to almost artifact free renders in C4D with the area lights,
And trying different combination with GI parameters, but the speed is still an issue I think.

Anyway in the middle of all this I would like to know what the Final Render people say. How is Final Render to AR in those areas?

moka.studio
01-19-2006, 09:43 AM
there are already many threads that answer your questions, if you look down the list.

nothing was done to the GI engine in AR2.5, so speed increase comes from improvements to such things as the algorithms to calculate Blur etc...
FR gives you much better GI results than AR, and faster.
Non-Gi rendering can often be faster in AR, though.
As to how FR may compare to Vray, the best would be to ask on the Max forum, since both are available for MAx.

Jesp
01-19-2006, 10:54 AM
When you say better GI results, what are you holding it up against?


I think AR GI produces some very fine images once you get rid of the artifacts.

Well since I'm using C4D and looking for an alternative to AR, I figured it would be appropiate to post it here.

But most say it's faster than AR which is pretty much what I was looking for.

moka.studio
01-19-2006, 11:47 AM
When you say better GI results, what are you holding it up against?


I think AR GI produces some very fine images once you get rid of the artifacts.



Artefacts ARE the main problem with AR, and getting rid of them is quite difficult...
Basically I am saying that Gi-renders produced by FR will be rendered faster, and with less artefacts, than a similar setup rendered with AR, especially for interior shots.
Which translates into "better GI results".
That simple.

Getting rid of artefacts in post is not always an option, nor is it always possible.

Jesp
01-19-2006, 12:14 PM
Well it's an option I definitely will look into.

lllab
01-19-2006, 01:08 PM
well as said gi is lot faster in FR than in AR, normal renderspeed is faster in AR in most cases(9.5).

vray is still bettter than both, but FR is very, very close. the shader trees are nice. personal i would say a complete merge of ar+FR would be a vraykiller, but cebas and maxon are differetn companies so i dont see that happen.

my guess is: cinema will/ has to adapt its GI engine greatly to be equal to vray, modo2.01, MR etc. in v10 there will be DR, bucktes, renderspeed & GI a la vray&FR( irradiancemap, ppt, lightcache, photonmapping QMC, light painting etc). and maxon will sure bring us an elegant shader tree option.

at the moment fr is the only modern engine for us cinema users, and for sure edwin will event new great stuff i am sure:-)

i guess in one year everything will look very bright on the renderengine side, there is much competition right now, and competition is good for the industry and for the users.

my2cent
stefan

Jesp
01-19-2006, 01:42 PM
Close is good enough:thumbsup:

Unfortunately I can't afford it at the moment.
Well if those things comes with v10 it would be a dream come true. Unfortunately I think that's all it will remain: a dream.

It's not long ago that AR 2.5 came out is it?

I'm afraid there will be looked into other areas in the future.

holle
01-20-2006, 07:02 AM
Hi,

here two examples with fr2. Both rendered on a p4 with 2.4 ghz and 512 mb ram.

Low gi settings mixed with ao, rendertime 9 min.
http://www.schoemann-unna.de/preview/fr_pub/bad09.jpg

High gi settings without ao, rendertime 40 min.
http://www.schoemann-unna.de/preview/fr_pub/roomtest_fr03.jpg

moka.studio
01-20-2006, 09:55 AM
exactly!
Holger's examples show this perfectly.
Try getting this kind of quality on a similar machine with AR in this amount of time.
It is just not possible

( Holger, I really like the bottom one, very nice)

AdamT
01-20-2006, 03:22 PM
exactly!
Holger's examples show this perfectly.
Try getting this kind of quality on a similar machine with AR in this amount of time.
It is just not possible
I'm sensing an upcoming episode of "Janine Will Prove You Wrong". :)

moka.studio
01-20-2006, 06:36 PM
I'm sensing an upcoming episode of "Janine Will Prove You Wrong". :)

Well, I am always humbled by those :)
but 9min for the first image on a 2.4 is still hard to beat!

holle
01-21-2006, 08:52 PM
Well, I am always humbled by those :)
but 9min for the first image on a 2.4 is still hard to beat!

Yes, everything can happen ;)

So I decide to update the second image a bit.
The rendertime is in the footer ;)

The rendering was done via dr on an amd 4400x2 and an old dual 2000mp.
(CB for both about 1000)

http://www.schoemann-unna.de/preview/fr_pub/roomtest_fr04.jpg

vid2k2
01-21-2006, 10:35 PM
I really liked this composition when first seeing it,
so, did my version and got carried away:) ..... congrats to the author.

Image 1 is a WIP= about 12:00 and image 2 is after adding too many reflective
things and fooling with GI and AO.
In spite of my materials, render time with AR2.5 = 22:15
geometry-still image
lowly 1.8 iMac G5 2GB

I need to cut down on the glow and up the GI settings for less grain.

vid2k2
01-21-2006, 11:36 PM
Adjusted the GI and AO and added another lght for the towels.
AR2.5 Render time: 17:29

lllab
01-22-2006, 06:41 PM
well not even comparable, fr version is real nice holle:-)

is the first modell also public ?

cheers
stefan

holle
01-23-2006, 04:15 AM
well not even comparable, fr version is real nice holle:-)

is the first modell also public ?

cheers
stefan

Hi Stefan.

Thanks :)

The first scene is not public .....
but if you like I can make a stripped down one, without furnitures and
textures....

lllab
01-23-2006, 05:06 PM
no its ok thanks, i just wondered...

great images

cheers
stefan

CGTalk Moderation
01-23-2006, 05:06 PM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.