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Mu
01-18-2006, 02:20 PM
Tada!

Thought I might just start my own thread, now.

So,

who am I?
Murat Kayi, 31, aspiring to become a professional writer, I do this just for fun!
for those who can understand German, take a look at my website (http://www.muratkayi.de/)!
what's my goal?
to become a good figurative artist. Nothing less, nothing more.

what's my plan?
- to take part in the OFDWs
- to use my ressources, copy them, study them, e.g.: Loomis, Hogarth, everything online, Master Draughtsmen series
- to do master copies
- to do sketches from imagination - ultimately I want to draw and paint figures and environments which have not existed until I created them. Gotta start someday, so why not right away?
- to do head, head feature, arm, hand and feet studies in particular from reference

To encourage everyone out there who thinks his/her stuff is crappy... take a look at my first OFDW007 attempt - it can't get any crappier than that now, can it? Also, note the progress from OFDW to OFDW - these images clearly explain why I love this forum and its forumites so much, especially the ubiquitious forum leader: because it made me become better!

crap study from hell OFDW007:
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/1500/workshop007pic41rn.jpg
the decisive hint from Rebecca in the same OFDW: value constitutes form! Do greyscale!

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/5586/workshop007pic2finis9zv.jpg

OFDW008:

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/1402/cgofdw008final3kb.jpg

OFDW009:

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/8797/final0099pd.jpg

OFDW010
done in artrage
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/4548/progress96fb.jpg

more and new stuff later today... gotta fetch my little one from the kindergarten... see you all soon!

Rebeccak
01-18-2006, 02:26 PM
Go Mr. Mu!

Great to see this up and running! I think this is...just supey! :thumbsup: :)

You just hadta be different, didn't you? .: :. :scream:

Looking forward to the good things that develop here. :)

EDIT: You have been linked up here: (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2817397&postcount=12)
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2817397&postcount=12

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Mu
01-18-2006, 03:18 PM
Great to see this up and running! I think this is...just supey! :thumbsup: :)

Well, now I feel supey inside!:beer:

You just hadta be different, didn't you? .: :. :scream:

This is just to reflect my inner differentness...:wise:

or I just figured it would look cool:scream:

feel free to edit the thread title and add twenty exclamation marks or all capslock instead:scream:


no ref used here, trying to find out what I know and whyt I think I know.

The look and technique is inspired by franck kobolt who does wonderful sketches on textured background and also by Dr. Bone or Mr. Mentler(?) whose figurative art in his anatomy thread I admire beyond words. I actually took a sample of his paper background and spread it via image hose all over the background. By adding lighter values of the bg color I can dip a toe in the pond of color while remaining monochrome and in therefor safe areas:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c4/mkayi/sketch_fem_figure.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c4/mkayi/sketch_masonry.jpg

GonzaloGolpe
01-18-2006, 03:20 PM
HEllouu Mr. Muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!:p Great to see ya here with your own thread!!:wip:Ï´ll see your progress!!

┤ Zalo:p

Rebeccak
01-18-2006, 03:22 PM
Well, Helen Keller mode being in effect :D I'll have to look at your work later. :) But glad to see you're already adding work here.

Supey! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
01-18-2006, 03:25 PM
Gonzalo - thank you so much! Means a lot to know there's people watching this!
Rebecca - shall I describe the pics to you in the meantime?:p

Lyneran
01-18-2006, 03:39 PM
hiya mr. mu! glad to see you made your own thread! now keep em coming ok :)

nice to see you've started weeding out the stuff you think you know from what you really know. about those 2 last drawings, i think proportion might be a good place for you to work on. Loomis said it's best to start with the overall proportion before getting into details, and his book is an excellent study material for that.

btw, great ofdw studies. i esp like the one done in artrage :thumbsup: hope to see more work from you mr. mu!

SpiritDreamer
01-18-2006, 05:56 PM
Hi ...MR MU...:)

Great to see you have a thread now.
All it lacks is your first painting done in PAINTER, can't wait to see that one.
It will be a pleasure for you, I think, after all of the other programs
you've had to deal with lately.
You managed to pull it all together on #10.. in spite of those programs though
and that's to be admired for sure..:thumbsup:
I'm looking forward to seeing the progress that i'm sure you will achive..

Take Care..MR MU..:)
Glenn

Mu
01-18-2006, 10:25 PM
Lyneran - thanks for watching! Yea, proportion... and line quality... and edge design... and shading... and smooth blending. Stroke flow: I could go on forever. I will try to mind proportion and think of an exercise which relies heavily on it, though. Thanks for the hint!

Spirit Dreamer - Especially happy you walked in, here! You actually do your name credit as you are very inspiring (which, if you dissect the word means "to put the spirit into someone", doesn't it?).

As concerns Painter, I am starting to believe something must have gone terribly wrong as the service hotline of my dealer said they sent it on thursday and it still did not arrive! I am somewhat frustrated - must wait til tomorrow cause they said they would investigate further. I sincerely hope this will not turn out to be a pain in the ass with mysteriously unaccountable /disappearing packages a.s.o.
:sad:

Anyway... with this I tried to tilt some heads and mind my lines. The pale sketches are actually layers I have used on top of each other (set to multiply), but have been moved on purpose here to serve as progress steps.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c4/mkayi/sketch_tiltedHead.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c4/mkayi/sketch_tiltedHeadII.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c4/mkayi/sketch_tiltedHeadIII.jpg

done in artweaver (*sigh*)

Mu
01-19-2006, 02:21 PM
I have been trying to make artweaver provide me with an inkpen. Had one of Dr. Bone's sheets open and studied the look of the lines (from a brush design point-of view). I actually am quite fond of the inkpen I created.

What went through my head while doing this:

1. I will do master studies as I stated, but I think I will include my favourite artists from around here in this, too. After all, if they do things I like, there must be a lot to learn, there. This includes people like Gord, Dr. Bone, and others...

2. I read an article on digital art and how artists need to be aware of how the digital canvas lacks resistance and that you always want to make things perfect and erase mistakes while in traditional art mistakes make the picture (rough summary)... so I decided to not refine on a separate layer, but pretend I had a traditional one-way-ticket. Was fun...

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/8116/sketchtiltedheadiv5kr.jpg

Next step will be proportions as promised to Lyneran...

See you soon

erilaz
01-19-2006, 11:43 PM
I read an article on digital art and how artists need to be aware of how the digital canvas lacks resistance.


Mu, if you're finding the tablet doesn't have the same feel as pencil on paper, the easiest way to fix that is to actually tape a piece of paper to your tablet. You get about the same level of sensitivity, but with a little friction. That resistance can help wire your brain into thinking "traditional traditional traditional". :)

Rebeccak
01-20-2006, 12:49 AM
Mr. Mu,

Finally got a chance to look at your work out of 'Helen Keller' mode :D and your progress through the OFDWs is impressive! :thumbsup: Very much looking forward to seeing you push your skills further here. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

pushav
01-20-2006, 07:50 PM
Nice work on the greyscale paintings!:arteest::beer:

Mu
01-20-2006, 10:43 PM
Lyneran's hint was spot on - I don't know anything about poroportion...or maybe I knew nothing til tonight:scream:. Male proportions will follow...

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/2205/proportionchartfem8ll.jpg

fredlovebot
01-21-2006, 02:58 PM
I really like that proportion chart! Everytime I look at one Im suprised that the waistline is higher up than I always though it was, but once I look at a figure or such, its really spot on. Im looking forward to the male chart aswell!

Mu
01-21-2006, 04:41 PM
pushav, rebecca - thanks for popping in and leaving a comment!

erilaz - I have tried this once and it gave the creepy feeling that you get when scratching your nails over a blackboard:scream:. Maybe it is different with wacoms as they seem to have different nibs for special purposes? I only have a cheap one for 15€. When I have finally saved enough money for a intuos I will give it another go.

But I think that the article referred to a form of inner resistance. Digital is easier for the sake of ctrl-zed-ing alone and if you watch at some of the sketches in Doctor Bone's thread, which are all traditional, then you see the spots where he actually corrected wrong proportions are all nicely integrated into the figure as a whole. This gives his drawings a very special look.
Now, what do I do when I make mistakes? I hit ctrl+z. I use layers in the first place to make sure I can erase safely.
So, the way I understood this article, it is worth taking risks digitally sometimes,
- trying to integrate the mistakes into the finished piece
- Use only one layer
- don't ctrl-z
- correct on-the-fly
- go over the spots with a different tool, things like that. I think it's fun. And, as I am not a dogmatic person, I feel one should try everything sometimes.


gorgnut - glad you left a comment and liked the charts. They are from "Figure Drawing for what it's worth" by Andrew Loomis. I indeed have to force myself to place the features where the plate tells me they should go as opposed to where I think they go.:scream:



http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c4/mkayi/proportionChart_male.jpg

Rebeccak
01-21-2006, 11:05 PM
Mr. Mu,

Great to see these proportional studies! I kind of agree about the paper on wacom thing ~ I used to recommend it to people, but after trying it myself with limited success, I kind of got the same feeling about the 'nails on chalkboard' thing...:D...but on occasion, I'm sure it comes into handy. I kind of like your unique approach of just disregarding the CTRL + Z function...but boy, would that take discipline for me to use...:D

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
01-21-2006, 11:11 PM
I kind of agree about the paper on wacom thing ~ I used to recommend it to people, but after trying it myself with limited success

lmao!:scream:

you never tried it before recommending it? I absolutely know this effect. Some things sound so convincing you adopt them as working ideas that it takes some time before you realize you never really checked them!

Do you own a wacom? Which brand. Would be interesting for me to know if it is actually a different thing with the wacom...

Rebeccak
01-21-2006, 11:19 PM
Mr. Mu,

I have 2 small wacoms, 1 Graphire and 1 Intuos (the Wacom brand is Wacom :D) and they're both 4x6 I believe. Works for me. :) Paper doesn't work differently with them, though. It's still kinda scritch scratchy...but maybe people would get different results with different kinds of paper. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Lyneran
01-22-2006, 09:50 PM
- don't ctrl-z

not use the one thing that keeps most artists sane (enough) ? nooooo!! :D well actually i'm forced to do this when i do 2, 5 and 15 min gestures and you're right, sometimes stray lines actually add to the whole image. :)

anyway, nice to see you spending time on Loomis. definitely a good step. glad you got the books before they were taken down btw.

Mu
01-22-2006, 10:23 PM
Hi Lyneran,

thanks again for rubbing my nose in the dirt (proportions):wavey:

Yea, I ctrl-zeded like hell with these proportion charts:scream:, so it's not as if I am propagating the Iron Man Rules of digital painting or something:scream:

It's just worth relaxing sometimes - making things not look too smooth. Freedom, basically, if you all don't mind my using melgibsonized diction, here (I haven't started yelling it yet, so all should be fine)

EDIT: as concerns Loomis, anyone doing a search for rapidshare and Loomis around here should find links...

Here's proportion from the sides:

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/2604/proportionsideboth9nu.jpg

Mu
01-23-2006, 12:22 AM
just a doodle (after all those dry studies:p)

having fun with artrage2 - fantastic tool.

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/451/doodlei8al.jpg

Rebeccak
01-23-2006, 12:25 AM
Go Mr. Mu! Keep at it, you're progressing well. We all need a release every now and then, eh? :D

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

*runs off to dinner before anyone else posts!* :scream:

fredlovebot
01-23-2006, 09:16 AM
Very nice progress Mr. Mu! :thumbsup: I was thinking, in your latest piece, do you sketch in the basic form with a penciltool and lines or do you just paint directly with 'masses'? I'm going to try out the 'mass' painting technique in the new OFDW (12), I think it acctuly will help me see the forms and proportions at an earlier stage.

Keep rockin' mate! :bounce:

Mu
01-23-2006, 09:31 AM
Hi gorgnut!

nice to have you on the show:) Thanks for dropping by!

in your latest piece, do you sketch in the basic form with a penciltool and lines or do you just paint directly with 'masses'? I'm going to try out the 'mass' painting technique in the new OFDW (12), I think it acctuly will help me see the forms and proportions at an earlier stage

Massing in proportions or blocking in masses, whatsoever you want to call it, is definitely worth a try, but it works better if you have a solid understanding of the planar structure of the face.

As concerns sketching/construction - just to show how much I still need to develop and learn (in other words, how much I suck)- I don't have a fixed scheme at all:

- When I want to practise Loomis, I carefully construct a head and a plane to which I attach the masses. (Lines)

- When I want to gesture sketch, I don't give a damn 'bout anything and just see to it that I get it done in under 2mins:scream:

- for the color theory thread I even traced the outline of the flower as that assignment was about color, not lines or form...

- with the above piece I just wanted to try the new artrage2 and blotted the canvas randomly with paint til I started seeing things. So, til I started fleshing out the head I did not even want to paint a head (hope that makes sense to you, it hardly does so for me:scream: )

It's my first piece with artrage2 and I think they did a fabolous job with that software. I even think I could imagin shelling out the 20 bucks sometime this year (after I recovered from my painter purchase:D - still did not arrive, though:cry: ) for it, as 20 bucks for this functionality is almost free...

I think, the favourable method depends on what you are trying to achieve. I just want to have as many weapons under my belt as possible. Wonder what Hogarth is going to do with me, once I will start with his books...

Mu
01-23-2006, 03:50 PM
first study for the OFDW12

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/9488/firststudy0ww.jpg

SpiritDreamer
01-23-2006, 04:42 PM
Hi ...MR MU....:)

WOW!! ....Great figure study for #12...Lots of energy and emotion... :thumbsup:
Also am likeing that purple doodle above...for the same reasons...:)
Looking forward to seeing more of both... :thumbsup:

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
01-24-2006, 10:15 PM
My second study for the OFDW12.

The more I study the parts the more I am glad I did not dive into the whole thing head first. It is hard. Urgh...

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/7997/secondstudy8mm.jpg

Mu
01-24-2006, 10:48 PM
WOW!! ....Great figure study for #12...Lots of energy and emotion... :thumbsup:
Also am likeing that purple doodle above...for the same reasons...:)
Looking forward to seeing more of both... :thumbsup:


Thanks Glenn,

means a lot to me that you like things in this thread.

I feel like I changed in my strive and studies, as if my learning steps are on safer ground somehow. Hard to describe. Feels a little more confident with what I do, so I am clearer about what to learn. Sort of. Kindalike. thingy...

Rebeccak
01-25-2006, 12:20 PM
Wow, Mr. Mu, :)

This last drawing of yours is really impressive ~ nice concentration and focus on getting the inner emotions of the two contrasting characters to come to life.

Nice work! :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
01-25-2006, 01:38 PM
Hi.. MR MU... and WOW!!...one more time...:applause:

Can't say it any better than Rebecca just said it...:)
You really nailed that likeness on the face on the left also...:thumbsup:
I think you better sign that one ...I would, if it were mine..

Are you planning on doing the whole painting after these studies.
I think you should ...and if you do, I think you should go for the emotion of the whole drama first....just cut loose on it, and bring it up, and out from your heart spirit..make it yours...
Do details and refinements last.....the emotion portrayed in this painting,.. trumps detail ..
Really looking forward to seeing what I know you are capible of attaining,.. EMOTION WISE..:arteest:

TAKE CARE
Glenn

fredlovebot
01-25-2006, 02:18 PM
Those OFDW #12 studies are awesome! Great improvment and the likeness is really close!
Makes me wanna fix my faces in the OFDW #12.. they kinda look.. uhh... terrible! :scream:

Keep pushing!

Mu
01-25-2006, 02:37 PM
Thank you, Glenn!

I definitely plan on doing the whole piece. I restrict myself to studies for two reasons:

- This is by far the most complex thing I have come across and I need to break it up in smaller problems (old software developer's habit)
- I am waiting for my copy of PainterIX - it turns out they only sent it last week, because they had trouble with the credit card and now I hope I can use Painter with the next week or so.

Wether I grid it or go about it in that wild expressive (and impressive) manner you went for I still don't know...

EDIT: thanks gorgnut! whenever I look at your updates I feel like "aargh, how I am I gonna catchup?" Everyone's so far into this while I am fiddling with details...

focus on getting the inner emotions of the two contrasting characters to come to life.
That's an interesting point by the way.

Had to think about what Bouguereau(what a name - the french have too many letters in their names:scream: ) actually did here:

I think the left one is Vergil while the one on the righthandside is supposed to be Dante. While trying to get a likeness I noticed how subtle Bouguereau indicates their emotions and how interesting these emotions are.

While Dante looks with a bitter contempt (corners of his mouth) at the torture the sinner has to suffer, Vergil hides most of his emotions by hiding his mouth completely, but I think his eyes betray signs of that fascinated disgust mixed with lust that comes with witnessing a spectacle.

Important thing is: both of them show absolutely no signs of mercy.

I think Bougerau made a statement about how artists or storytellers in general (be it musicians, writers as in the case of the two characters or painters) lack mercy when observing things. This lack is an important trait for telling stories, isn't it?

Rebeccak
01-25-2006, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Mu: I think the left one is Vergil while the one on the righthandside is supposed to be Dante. While trying to get a likeness I noticed how subtle Bouguereau indicates their emotions and how interesting these emotions are.

While Dante looks with a bitter contempt (corners of his mouth) at the torture the sinner has to suffer, Vergil hides most of his emotions by hiding his mouth completely, but I think his eyes betray signs of that fascinated disgust mixed with lust that comes with witnessing a spectacle.

Important thing is: both of them show absolutely no signs of mercy.

I think Bougerau made a statement about how artists or storytellers in general (be it musicians, writers as in the case of the two characters or painters) lack mercy when observing things. This lack is an important trait for telling stories, isn't it?
Really interesting points here, Mr. Mu :) ~ I have to confess literary ignorance of the works of Dante and Virgil, too much pop~culture for this one, I guess. ;)

Here's an interesting website on the two authors:

http://users.erols.com/antos/dante/about_dante.html

Maybe I'll get me some edumacation. :)

EDIT: Here's a link to Dante and Virgil as depicted in other works of art:

http://users.erols.com/antos/dante/art_gall.html

I think we've chosen wisely. :D

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
01-25-2006, 05:39 PM
Maybe I'll get me some edumacation. :)

lmao!:scream:

I think we've chosen wisely. :D

:eek: makes Boo-jaroze's genius stand out even more...

Mu
01-25-2006, 09:50 PM
My Hogarth epiphany

Before the workshop started I said to myself "three or maybe four weeks! Great! I'll do studies like the old masters did the whole first week!"
Now, whenever I open the OFDW012 thread I feel like I accidentially stumbled into the Speedpainting thread!:scream:

Hard to stick to your resolution under these circumstances somehow, but today just reaffirmed me in my plan, because something absolutely magically happened.

The whole Bouguereau is covered with beautiful intimidating hand poses. I love hands. I just can't draw them. I still read Burne Hogarth's "drawing dynamic hands" on a regular basis (before I go to bed, on the toilet:D), but I never really understood his approach.

My girl-friend expressed what I thought better than me (it was her who bought the book):
"Hands just don't look like that..."

Now, while I was drawing the study of the hand at the bottom of this post it was "like a veil had been removed from before my eyes"(Sting:D) - all of a sudden I could see all of the structures I had been staring at in the Hogarth plates for hours. I never understood them til today. Hands do look like that, really!

I am so excited!
I have a whole book full of wonderful study material I can relate to now, while before I was just staring at it, confused...

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/7787/thirdstudy2oj.jpg

Hogarth epiphany pic:scream: ...:
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/3561/fourthstudy7rw.jpg

Rebeccak
01-26-2006, 02:23 AM
Really impressive, Mr. Mu! :wip:

I think that it's a shame that some people (not you) think that Hogarth's work is not worth exploring ~ though I wouldn't want to draw in the same style as he did, I think his breakdowns of the body into simple, understandable forms is nothing short of brilliant. Glad to see yet another person benefit from his teaching...nice work! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
01-27-2006, 05:32 PM
piece for the DSG, topic: "gotta catch them all!"

Had to think immediately of Holden Caulfield, companion of lonesome teenage days...

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3213/dsg601catcher1te.jpg

Rebeccak
01-28-2006, 10:23 PM
Mr. Mu,

I see you're putting to good use some of the things you've learnt in Kirt's Workshop ~ good to see! :wip:

Did you use any Reference for this piece, or was it from imagination? I would encourage you to spend time finishing pieces which you start ~ this develops a healthy habit of not generating a lot of unfinished 'sketches' which may leave you (the general you) with a sense of being unsatisfied with your work. Not to say that my approach is for everyone, but when working traditionally, I'll throw out work that is unfinished / or just isn't going anywhere ~ no sense in keeping it, and it gives you a psychological sense of having a stronger body of work.

Just my two cents. :D I think sketches such as these are good to do, so long as they're balanced out with more finished pieces, such as you have certainly been doing with much success for the OFDWs! :thumbsup:

Having said that, what I really like about this piece is the background (very sophisticated, really!) and the eerie white light ~ it's a really interesting mood, and definitely gives the viewer the sense that there is a story behind this piece. :)

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
01-29-2006, 01:06 AM
Hi Rebecca!

I was just about to post new things when I saw your reply. Always happy when someone leaves a comment. So thank you, first of all...


I see you're putting to good use some of the things you've learnt in Kirt's Workshop ~ good to see!

Yeah, I think if I manage to integrate what I do with anything I have learned I will someday produce good paintings/drawings...

Did you use any Reference for this piece, or was it from imagination?
This was from Imagination

Oh,

Rebecca - you might not be aware of it, but I soak in every word from you like a sponge (it took me quite a while to decide that your replies in the threads of lemog and zapan do not necessarily hold that big an amount of information for me...:D)

This sometimes leads to my infamous german decisionmaking deadlock. :scream:

I absolutely understand both of your following statements or guidelines individually,... but I can't figure out how to follow both of them. Or rather, when does each apply to what I do and when does it not so much?

I see it depends, obviously, but on what?

Guideline 1:

There is definitely a difference between drawing for the sake of doing a 'nice drawing' and drawing for the sake of Analysis. I would really emphasize to anyone who is in the process of learning to improve their drawings that Analysis is more important than trying to do a finished work.


Guideline 2:

I would encourage you to spend time finishing pieces which you start ~ this develops a healthy habit of not generating a lot of unfinished 'sketches' which may leave you (the general you) with a sense of being unsatisfied with your work.

Forgive me, I am probably too tired... (2.00 am around here).

And by the way: I am soooooo depressed and frustrated that I cannot explain how much without overstepping CGTalks diction policy here, because that dealer (licensed Corel dealer!) did not manage after almost four weeks to deliver that damn package with my Corel copy or just tell where on earth it went and I had the order deleted, and now I have to order somewhere else and I can't possibly use Painter for the OFDW, which means I have to do with artrage and AAAAAAARG!

Which is the reason for the (in short) following post...

Mu
01-29-2006, 01:13 AM
As I can't go digital the way I want (see above post of mine) I went traditional last night, with charcoal, Hogarth and a sketchbook.

The title of "Drawing dynamic hands" in german is something like "drawing hands made easy" which is ridiculous as it implies it's something like "drawing hands for dummies" which it is certainly not (I would have bought such a book, btw...)

On the contrary it's for people who can draw well in the first place and are looking for in-depth material to give their drawings that last tweak into professional/brilliant realm... So you might wonder what on earth do I use that book for, seeing that I suck at drawing? This, however is a long story and I am way too talkative and lengthy in my posts already.

I do apologize for that.

My charcoal mine holder and tweo sketchbooks. The little one's a moleskine.
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/5174/material0cb.jpg

my copy of hogarth, the large-scale sketchbook

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2450/ressource6fw.jpg

trying to understand hands... will post digital some time soon, with a fresh understanding of hands
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/2510/hogarthstudiesi9rj.jpg

Rebeccak
01-29-2006, 02:17 AM
Mr. Mu,

Haaaa!!! You are killing me! In a good way. :scream:

Yeah, I think if I manage to integrate what I do with anything I have learned I will someday produce good paintings/drawings...
I think you're already doing a good job with this. Your progress from your first painting is really kind of amazing. :wip:

Rebecca - you might not be aware of it, but I soak in every word from you like a sponge (it took me quite a while to decide that your replies in the threads of lemog and zapan do not necessarily hold that big an amount of information for me...)
That is funny!! I have to apologize for all that spam...but those two keep me laughing, and I have to admit I stalk Lemog...well, not really...*I'm writing this from France* :scream:

This sometimes leads to my infamous german decisionmaking deadlock.
Ha!!!

I absolutely understand both of your following statements or guidelines individually,... but I can't figure out how to follow both of them. Or rather, when does each apply to what I do and when does it not so much?

I see it depends, obviously, but on what?
On the one hand, it depends on who you are. On the other hand, it depends on what your definitions of 'Analytic Drawing' and 'Sketch' are.

This is really funny to be taken with such razorsharp seriousness. :) I totally understand ~ whenever you (the universal you) are learning something new, you stick to the rules like glue...and when the 'rules' contradict themselves, then this can result in mental herniation...:scream:...which I absolutlely want to prevent from happening. :)


Quoting you quoting me: Originally Posted by Rebecca in El Chief's thread: There is definitely a difference between drawing for the sake of doing a 'nice drawing' and drawing for the sake of Analysis. I would really emphasize to anyone who is in the process of learning to improve their drawings that Analysis is more important than trying to do a finished work.
Yep, I agree with me. :)


Quoting you quoting me: Originally Posted by Rebecca: I would encourage you to spend time finishing pieces which you start ~ this develops a healthy habit of not generating a lot of unfinished 'sketches' which may leave you (the general you) with a sense of being unsatisfied with your work.

Ay, there's the rub. I don't see your DSG sketch as being so much an Analysis, as something just done for fun to match the topic ~ does that make sense? There's a difference between the kind of drawings which you posted in your last post (Analysis) and the kind of images which show up all the time in the DSG ~ not that I don't love the DSG (I do) but I don't always think it's the best thing for beginners to get into the habit of thinking that posting a large quanity of incomplete (and often, untutored) pieces is the same thing as making progress artistically. I hope that's not harsh ~ I love seeing the work in the DSG, but sometimes I want to force a few people to do grayscale paintings...:D

Having said that, I see the enormous benefit of painting things that are not just figurative studies as we do here on the Anatomy Forum. ;)

And by the way: I am soooooo depressed and frustrated that I cannot explain how much without overstepping CGTalks diction policy here, because that dealer (licensed Corel dealer!) did not manage after almost four weeks to deliver that damn package with my Corel copy or just tell where on earth it went and I had the order deleted, and now I have to order somewhere else and I can't possibly use Painter for the OFDW, which means I have to do with artrage and AAAAAAARG!
I'm really sorry to hear that, Mr. Mu...I know how frustrating it must be. If it makes you feel better, I had to seriously argue with the people who 'delivered' my desk that they had to actually bring it inside and not just deposit all 397 lbs. of it at the base of the stairs. I do hope you get your copy of Painter soon.

~~

Second post:

About your new traditional drawings, I think they're fantastic! These are what I think of as Analytical Studies ~ drawings where you are just trying to understand how forms are put together / constructed. I think that these are frankly some of the most fun types of drawings to do, because it leads to a level of mastery, which you, with your love of logic, should quite enjoy, given that every piece you learn lends itself to every other piece, which has a cumulative effect of understanding a topic (from your own point of view).

Even if you approach this OFDW from the standpoint of analyzing the individual forms of the painting ~ some combination of head, neck, torso, arms, legs, hands, feet ~ I think you will have gotten a lot out of the Workshop ~ maybe more than by just copying the painting.

Hope this makes sense and helps. As always, your enthusiasm over the subject matter is encouraging and appreciated. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
01-29-2006, 04:55 AM
Hi ...MR MU ...:)

REALLY ...REALLY ...liking those Hogarth studies..You watch...you may not think so
right now, but what he is teaching you , will show up very shortly in any figures you do.
Won't look like his hopefully, but will be your own style, with the solid underlying structure
he has taught you in them.
Sorry to hear about your PAINTER nightmare, but everything happens for a reason.
Maybe your not suposed to get it until we start doing that painting you fell in love with.:)
Looking forward to more of those Hogarth studies...GREAT WAY TO LEARN...:thumbsup:

ErichSchreiner
01-29-2006, 08:13 AM
good work, just keep it up and you'll make big progress.

Painter: don't take that too serious, even if it would have arrived in time, it sure will take you a few weeks until you get used to painter...cause its tools and possibilities are just overwhelming. :)
And i heard ArtRage is a good tool too...

Lyneran
01-29-2006, 09:43 AM
nice studies mr. mu! i see that hogarth's working his magic on you :) keep drawing as much as you can, these are great.

you know i totally appreciate these discussions you have with ms.k about different stuff, coz i'm very bad with words so when i get confused about certain things i don't really know hot to ask about it without confusing everybody else with my tangle of words. thanks for putting it out there. i've been wondering about balancing finished and quick studies.

Mu
01-29-2006, 10:46 AM
*I'm writing this from France* :scream:

lmao!:scream:

This is really funny to be taken with such razorsharp seriousness.

yea, erm, heh...
*tries to loosen up*
*shakes vigorously*
*stays all cramped up*


I don't see your DSG sketch as being so much an Analysis, as something just done for fun to match the topic ~ does that make sense?

Oh man! It does make sense, absolutely! Maybe it was a little bit too late for me yesternight, after all...

As for the DSG sketches and the type of work there: When I joined CGTalk it was because of the DSG. I figured I could progress and learn there by doing daily sketches, but I soon realized that was not the case. Then I found your place, here...
I think the DSG is mainly a kind of loose brainstorming area - still a fun place and really nice people to hang out with, but not that big a helper for inexperienced beginners.

Even if you approach this OFDW from the standpoint of analyzing the individual forms of the painting ~ some combination of head, neck, torso, arms, legs, hands, feet ~ I think you will have gotten a lot out of the Workshop ~ maybe more than by just copying the painting.

We shall see - I will try to make the best of it in any case!

Glenn and Eric - thanks for your support, comfort and comments!

Lyneran - thanks for dropping by again. Good to see that my line spam in my own thread is useful for someone!:scream:

Mu
01-29-2006, 11:04 AM
Hi there,

as I got two comments about the background of the "Catcher in the Rye" piece I figured I should maybe enlarge upon what I did here.

Why?

Because I went for digital wizardry here - or, erm, well I made life easy for me anyway...:D

I needed blades of Rye, but did not want to manually draw hundreds of them, as it was a DSG piece I did mainly want to have fun with for a limited amount of time.

So I drew this:

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/9687/rye7zg.jpg

Then, I made a selection of the whole image and captured this as an image for the image hose in the app I used which happened to be Artweaver. I know Painter has an image hose, too, as do many others. You use it to spread an image over your painting/canvas.

I set the image hose tool of Artweaver to change the source image's angle, opacity and size by pressure of my pen and created that Rye-background. I partly blurred the background on the right handside to sleazily add a focal point and distance.

I did not want to go for the impression of a real field of Rye, as the book (haven't read it yet? Are you kidding me? Go and buy it! Definite recommendation!) by J.D. Salinger uses that image rather symbolically/metaphorically. I wanted to rather have a thicket of Rye, here.


You could have, however, achieved a more realistic effect by drawing longer blades and not changing direction/angle by pressure or randomly.

I think I might take Rebecca's advice and follow this piece a little further.

Rebeccak
01-29-2006, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Mu: Oh man! It does make sense, absolutely! Maybe it was a little bit too late for me yesternight, after all...
Yay! Glad that that's clear *wipes sweat from brow* :D

As for the DSG sketches and the type of work there: When I joined CGTalk it was because of the DSG. I figured I could progress and learn there by doing daily sketches, but I soon realized that was not the case. Then I found your place, here...
I think the DSG is mainly a kind of loose brainstorming area - still a fun place and really nice people to hang out with, but not that big a helper for inexperienced beginners.
Oh, I totally understand the value and benefit of fun threads...and I see a lot of amazing work there. The problem I sometimes see is that the experienced people work at their level, and those with less experience don't seem to get more. But I think that the fact that there is so much work generated there is inspiring! Don't get me wrong about the DSG ~ I just think that the fun stuff has to be balanced out with more serious study, and vice~versa. :)

I did not want to go for the impression of a real field of Rye, as the book (haven't read it yet? Are you kidding me? Go and buy it! Definite recommendation!) by J.D. Salinger uses that image rather symbolically/metaphorically. I wanted to rather have a thicket of Rye, here.
Ehm...guilty! :scream: At the risk of appearing as a total retard :D I do actually like to read...though I must say, since becoming addicted to the forum here, I've read nary a book (nor have I watched much television, when it comes to the point).

I do love good books (though there are definite gaping holes in my book list) ~ one of the best books I've read in recent history (meaning the last 6 months!) is Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell...I would recommend it to anyone, it's a really beautiful book. Okay, back to art. :)

I think I might take Rebecca's advice and follow this piece a little further.
Cool! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
01-29-2006, 08:35 PM
Alas,

I need to learn how to keep the fresh and rough brushstrokes of a quick outburst while producing a detailed painting.

It somehow looks neither right nor interesting... or does it? Ah, I don't know....

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/6788/catcherintherye3cs.jpg

Ravena
01-29-2006, 08:45 PM
Hi Mr. Mu,

I pursue yours thread since a few days, great progress here!
I like the last one, because of the your play with shadows and ligths and the details. Looks very interesting, mysterioes. Go on with the good work! :)

Ciao,
Ravena

Rebeccak
01-29-2006, 08:55 PM
Mr. Mu,

I quite like this update, and continue to enjoy the 'white light' look to it, which is kind of refreshing after staring at the doom and gloom image of the Wm. Bouguereau piece...the main suggestion I would have is to find a reference photo of a man who looks similar, and concentrate on the face, perhaps eliminating the arm for the time being, unless you want to find reference for that also (which I would of course encourage ~ it just depends on how much time you have for this piece). :)

It is difficult to maintain that fresh spontaneity ~ let me know when you've figured it out, so you can tell me the secret! :scream:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Ego
01-30-2006, 06:30 AM
*knock! knock!

Mr Mu, excellent study pieces here. Sorry I didn't visit before, just didnt know you started.
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

Mu
02-02-2006, 10:26 PM
Ravena, Queensoul - glad you dropped by! Hope you will enjoy your visits in here!

I tried Doctor Bone's method as I was in half-hysterical mode about the fact he elaborated on his drawings anyway. So, I figured, if I can understand what he's talking about in every single step I might it just give it a try albeit being an untrained art idiot:scream:

And, surprise! I really liked my gesture sketches!
I think I will use this method a lot to practise gesture and proportions. I wanted to do gesture sketches and afterwards analyse the proportions to look where I am wrong most of the time (next step after copying proportion plates...), but I will have to leave this analysis undone for today. My flat is a mess - we got a new kitchen today and everything is out of order...

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7747/bonestudiespart10fv.jpg

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1681/bonestudiespart26qu.jpg

Mu
02-02-2006, 11:16 PM
another quick Mentlerism - really so much fun! Still not analyzing my proportions, though...


for everything (tuuurn tuuurn turn) there is a season (tuuurn turn turn)
*lalala*

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1589/bonestudyii4ir.jpg

Ravena
02-03-2006, 05:44 AM
Hi Mr. Mu,

your gesture sketches looks great! :thumbsup:

Ciao,
Ravena

Rebeccak
02-03-2006, 05:54 AM
Go Mr. Mu! :bounce:

SpiritDreamer
02-03-2006, 12:05 PM
MR MU....Like the feel of that last one...solid figure painting...works well in that atmospheric
background....nice experimenting...on to something new, made from something old, tried and
true...:)
Was wondering if you can do layers with that program your using....might be nice to see all
these experimental figures your developeing put on one page, in one painting...would be a nice
progression in a developeing style kind of thing...just a thought..
Also some of your paintings evoke your personal thoughts on subjects you read and write
about....the EVOCATIVE FIGURE// LANDSCAPE - ANY MEDIUM thread might be a nice
home away from home for them to be showcased.....just another thought...:)
TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
02-03-2006, 10:42 PM
solid figure painting

Oh Glenn... I think I will print this out and wear it like a badge on my t-shirt!

here are some hand gestures. I remember having asked Rebecca "Is it possible to gesture sketch a hand?"
Rebecca: "sure, why not?"

*silence*
*dog barks from afar*

guess I had to simply try it, huh? Maybe I'll do a little Hogarth a little hand gestures rotatory...:D

from imagination:

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8592/handgesturesipart15cj.jpg

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/7294/handgesturesipart21kj.jpg

Mu
02-04-2006, 01:55 PM
....and I am still working on this one, by the way... just so you know...:D

http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/6348/catcherintherye23gz.jpg

EDIT: I need to give the eyes a little squint so the light is more present in his expression - also, I removed the dark values on his cheeks as the blinding light is more or less everywhere (hot summer noon or something, we shall see)

Rebeccak
02-04-2006, 02:11 PM
Mr. Mu,

Nice progress here, both on the hands and the face! Looking forward to seeing more Burne Hogarth studies and studies from life as well. :thumbsup:

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

GonzaloGolpe
02-04-2006, 03:05 PM
Muuuhttp://www.gonzalogolpe.com/vaquita.jpg:D How´re you?Hey, I really like that olive green background!It gives to the sketch figures a powerful light:thumbsup:

┤Zalo

Rebeccak
02-04-2006, 03:19 PM
That is hilarious! :scream:

GonzaloGolpe
02-05-2006, 01:13 AM
I think the cows should govern the world,lol!Look at that, what a beautiful little face:D :D

Mu
02-05-2006, 05:31 PM
:wise:Can't I leave this thread without surveillance for a few hours?

*sigh*

besides, don't make fun of cows... they are dangerous... ask Kirt!

http://www.loyno.edu/%7Edawhite/LarsonCowsCars.jpg

Rebeccak
02-05-2006, 05:33 PM
Oh no...cow spam! :D

Mu
02-09-2006, 09:42 PM
noticed the lack of updates?

I caught the flu after a nice day when we went sledging for a day in a nearby low mountain range. I feel a little better now and did this for today's DSG.

Oh, Rebecca I know "finish what you started"....

*shakes fist*
Try some of your own medicine!
:scream:
ah, no sorry... I know you are right: it will give me a good feeling to completely finish pieces. I promis I will when I fully recovered
*sniffles*
:sad:

http://img286.imageshack.us/img286/4677/dsg614tommismith1uh.jpg

Dreamy Kid
02-10-2006, 12:36 AM
wow nice mu, nice to see you back, hope you get well soon :cool:

SpiritDreamer
02-10-2006, 03:56 AM
GREAT and POWERFUL...Painting and Image.... BY ANY MEANS NECESARY !! ...:thumbsup:

TAKE CARE OF YOUR..SELF...AND GET WELL SOOOON...MR MU..:)
Glenn

Mu
02-10-2006, 04:17 PM
still trying to finish this one. Adding a first hint on the squint in the eyes, fixing anatomy and pose.

I am not sure about the pose. While the anatomy was worse in the previous versions the pose was a little more dynamic (leaning forward) while at the moment it is more reclining.

Opinions on the pose? Forward / backward?

http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/2024/catcherintherye31ql.jpg

Mu
02-10-2006, 07:25 PM
shortened the skull altogether
started to occupy myself with the details of the eyes
decided to take this as far as possible so it qualifies for the evocative landscape/figure thread that Glenn suggested posting the final piece in

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/9020/catcherintherye46ok.jpg

Rebeccak
02-10-2006, 09:20 PM
Mr. Mu,

This is definitely looking better! :) Did you manage to find any photo reference for this? I highly recommend the site 3d.sk. I joined recently, and it's $13.50 / month, with all of the downloads you can possibly make in that time of hi~res Reference images of all types of people / animals / etc. It's really good. I was resistant to it at first, but have come to really like it. :)

Then, there's always good old Google ~ I'm always amazed what I can find! I think the key to really delving in to this painting is finding suitable reference.

Re: taking my own advice ~ you're totally right! :D But, I'll let you reply to everyones' posts for a few weeks, and I'll kick back and work on a few paintings. :scream: I'm totally not complaining...you know I'm a forum addict! :D

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
02-10-2006, 09:51 PM
still tweaking th'accurséd face anatomy...
the nose was too long and too perpendicular to the ground (among other self-fabricated bs... aaargh!)


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c4/mkayi/catcherintheRye5.jpg

Mu
02-10-2006, 09:57 PM
But, I'll let you reply to everyones' posts for a few weeks, and I'll kick back and work on a few paintings.

lmao:scream:
yea you're right. About time to just say it again: you rock, Mylady. Always helping anyone out, blitzposting to newbie and professional with motivating comments, while at the same time hosting a big workshop and still enthusiastic about the whole thing - what would we all be doing without you?

Re: Reference, I am still doing without. That's not some goal I set for myself with this one. I am definitely too bad still for going completely without ref (one day in a far far future, maybe)
My prob is: I can't bring myself round to search google with "depressive reclining guy" or something. I am clueless as to how to search. Will maybe try it later today.

EDIT: depressive reclining guy does not work! just tried it... :D

Rebeccak
02-10-2006, 10:15 PM
Mr. Mu,

Hehe, thanks! :D

How about "old man" :D

http://www.dustylens.com/Old_Man-best-small.jpg
http://www.dustylens.com/Old_Man-best-small.jpg

http://k43.pbase.com/u41/barbados/upload/26677415.oldman4574.jpg
http://k43.pbase.com/u41/barbados/upload/26677415.oldman4574.jpg

>>LARGE IMAGE LINK<< (http://www.11eleven.at/press/1pic/photographies/oldMan.jpg)

http://www.geogr.uni-goettingen.de/kus/pics/vn8/www-vn2002-old-man-pagoda-mittel1.jpg
http://www.geogr.uni-goettingen.de/kus/pics/vn8/www-vn2002-old-man-pagoda-mittel1.jpg

>>LARGE IMAGE LINK<< (http://hulubei.net/tudor/photography/photos/O/l/Old-Man-3-1000x1500.jpg)

http://www.business.auburn.edu/%7Ewhittdo/Old%20Man%20Photo.jpg
http://www.business.auburn.edu/~whittdo/Old%20Man%20Photo.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/82/Oldmansea_fuentes.jpg/180px-Oldmansea_fuentes.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/82/Oldmansea_fuentes.jpg/180px-Oldmansea_fuentes.jpg

Cheers, ;)

~Rebeccak

Mu
02-10-2006, 10:44 PM
hehe, "old man" ... yea I should keep it simple...

I just discovered that the ear was way too high... as if I'd never read a single page of Loomis...:rolleyes:

I decided I took this as far as I can without ref - no need to pretend I could do without it. So, I'll let it rest for today and will start looking for adequate reference to take this to the next level.

Thanks again Rebecca, the refs posted are wonderful! That first one is :eek: Is that Gregory Peck?! What a guy! Really, I mean...

detail of the lowered ear... I feel like "nip/tuck"-ing all the time:scream:

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/1957/catcherintherye66zr.jpg

Mu
02-13-2006, 11:18 PM
some new gesture sketches in-between...
I tried another Mentlerism, but halfway through I felt they were too stiff. So I figured I could just let go of it all for once and just churn out some gestures without thinking too much.

- drew some froody lines of action
- placed a Loomis-esque hip
- established ribcage
- connected the two elements
- drew cylindrical legs
- establish head and arms
- traced everything again adding opposing curves

was fun all in all
Damn, I just saw I forgot to add a hand to the first one...hehe...:D
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/4140/mugesturesipart25iv.jpg

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5816/mugesturesipart11oa.jpg

Rebeccak
02-14-2006, 12:16 AM
Go Mr. Mu! :applause: Fantastic! :wip:

SpiritDreamer
02-14-2006, 12:51 AM
MR MU....:)
Finally cutting loose.....kind of like playing the guitar...once you learn the notes, then
it's time to play the song....nice twist, and motion in those figures MR MU....:thumbsup:
TAKE CARE
GLENN

Mu
02-14-2006, 08:07 AM
Rebecca - thanks for being my personal cheerleader!:scream:


kind of like pyaying the guitar...once you learn the notes, then
it's time to play the song



Finally you are starting to speak my language...:scream:

thanks for dropping by!

LoTekK
02-14-2006, 08:20 AM
Very nice gestures. Very dynamic and all. :)

Ravena
02-14-2006, 10:05 AM
Mr. Mu,

cool gesture sketches! Absolutly great! I am honestly inspired.

Ciao,
Ravena

fredlovebot
02-14-2006, 10:26 AM
That's way cool Mu! Big improvement! We want more! :drool:

Mu
02-14-2006, 10:31 PM
"So...", you wonder, "... what on earth is this?" I did some more gestures and all of a sudden felt like just following no system at all. I slightly overreacted, so to speak...

Now, it was fun, but I also felt it is about time to return to my normal ways of logical deduction, Watson,:wise: and that's why I ordered the Da Vinci edition of the Master Draughtsmen series to start doing master copies.

Hope it arrives faster than Painter(still waiting), though (it ships from NY and the price is twice as high as in the U.S...:rolleyes: )

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/3404/freelines45sd.jpg

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/7122/freelines25tq.jpg

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/3715/freelines19mw.jpg

Lyneran
02-15-2006, 03:42 AM
nice gestures mr. mu! hope your book comes without problems, i'd love to see master copies from you :)

Mu
02-15-2006, 05:18 PM
Today I noticed it might take a few weeks til my book arrives from NYC so I did some more gestures.

By now I figured I could also look for masterdrawings on the net (duh!) so that's the next thing I will do (probably...)

I only like the one in the upper right corner:
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/449/mugestures67xb.jpg

figured I should try different proportions, too
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/3066/kopievonmugestures77sl.jpg

extreme perspective I
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1366/mugestures819ab.jpg

extreme perspective II
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/4058/mugestures827bp.jpg

Rebeccak
02-15-2006, 06:03 PM
Nice work, Mr. Mu! :thumbsup:

I remember my first breakthrough like this...it felt really great! I finally felt as though I understood the secret to figure drawing, and I probably cackled a little maniacally...*ahem* :scream:

Great stuff, keep up the good work! :)

Cheers,

~Rk

Mu
02-15-2006, 09:55 PM
first mastercopy.

many things wrong here (angles/proportions), but I figured I will do better with mileage under my belt so I quit it and let it be a start.

I downloaded 45 master drawings by Raffael and Da Vinci tonight....

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/671/raffael19wz.jpg

Elsie
02-15-2006, 10:04 PM
Hey Mr. Mu ^^

Just dropping in to say that you've really improved throughout this thread, the proportions aswell as general presentation of your sketches :)

I especially like the collection of poses two posts above, the different proportions ones are very nice aswell as the extreme perspective - although in the extreme perspecive II on the right I think the guys legs should be a tad shorter? anyway, keep up the good work!

Mu
02-15-2006, 10:24 PM
Hi Rebecca!

thanks for dropping by - I really appreciate this as I know you are not left with much time now.
It's cool to read you consider this a breakthrough and I guess you are right. I just felt much more confident with the drawings on this page than with anything I did before. I do have a good foundation to build on, now.
Also, my loosening up can be considered a breakthrough for all of us, I suppose?:scream: Much less german decision deadlocks...:D


Elsie! You know I absolutely admired your work in the OFDW12 and felt so glad on your behalf for the frontpage plug you received! And that's why I really appreciate your leaving a comment here. As for the legs: I am the wrong person to ask, really:scream:, but I guess you are right. I shall get better. Thanks again!

woodyradica
02-16-2006, 12:08 AM
Hi Mr. Mu

Rebecca pointed me in the direction of your thread as im currently taking her class at the moment.

Its really nice to see your overall progress doing so many master copies and gestures really seems like the best way to improve.

Keep up the good work......:thumbsup:

Woody

Ravena
02-17-2006, 02:49 PM
Hi Mr. Mu,

your gestures become ever better and your line too (and more sicherer). Fleißig, fleißig der Herr. :)

Ciao,
Ravena

Mu
02-18-2006, 09:40 PM
ravena!

irgendwie ist das schön, mal auf Deutsch gelobt zu werden....:)


woodyradica!

great you joined her class! Judging from last workshop's results which were posted in this forum you will be doing great things soon and I am looking forward to your drawings!

I decided to join the Storyreel Micro Challenge which was introduced in the DSG. The goal is to do an animatic for a chase scene. I chose the Matrix script and will do the very first chase scene (with sexy trinity in her tight leather suit:drool: )
I never did a storyboard before, but as I dream of one day being able to create 2d-Animations I just had to take part.

This will maybe delay my mastercopies a bit, but I might squeeze some in if I get things done quick...

C&C always welcome, esp. from storyboard experienced fellow artists.

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/6417/shot10dt.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6553/shot26fr.jpg

Rebeccak
02-18-2006, 09:44 PM
Nice stuff so far, Mr. Mu! I've alerted the proper authorities (Kirt) :D so let's see if he makes an appearance. :) Looks like you're putting some of his "Simple Theories" exercises to good use! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Kirt
02-18-2006, 10:57 PM
Hard to give a good crit from just two panels, but here you go ...

Loose the gritty texture and use flat shades if you want to communicate more info about your scene to the viewer. You can use special textures and effects when you doing the film. But for storyboards, simple and neat is much more effective.

Mu
02-18-2006, 11:13 PM
Oh Wow!
Kirt, thanks for taking a look at this, and I agree, it's not very much to see.

I will give those two the flat shade treatment as you suggested and will repost them. You (and others, too ) might check out my appropriate thread for the challenge in the storyboard forum (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=319653), as I might enlarge upon what the heck I was thinking more over there.

Thanks again, Kirt, appreciate every bit of help!

...and thanks Rebecca for leading the firefighters the right way:scream:

Rebeccak
02-18-2006, 11:20 PM
Ha!!! I'll go the check out your thread now. :)

Cheers, :)

~Rk

Mu
02-19-2006, 11:21 AM
quick update with the suggested flat shades. The shots read much better now, thanks Kirt!

I will do the sketches in Artrage as I like its pencil and flatshade it in Artweaver...

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/2594/shot18yi.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/8148/shot27oy.jpg

Kirt
02-19-2006, 06:28 PM
Yes :thumbsup:
Much easier to see what's going on now.

Mu
02-19-2006, 10:35 PM
aaaaand another one. God, seven days are short. I have a whole fight scene to do before I will be able to do the chase itself (challenge topic)...:eek:

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/3717/shot32gr.jpg

Mu
02-20-2006, 05:46 PM
update and overview, more details in the other thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=319653)

http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/5990/storyboardoverview9ns.jpg

Gord-MacDonald
02-20-2006, 06:08 PM
Hi Mr. Mu

You have been doing alot of hard work You are defintely making of progress. Good work and keep going!

Gord

Mu
02-21-2006, 09:21 PM
Hi, Gord!

I really appreciate your comment as I admire your paintings a lot!

next panels:

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/7834/shot125al.jpg

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/5568/shot136xc.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4691/shot147pp.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5000/shot156rm.jpg

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/4610/shot165lr.jpg

and an updated panel overview:

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/3859/storyboardoverview7pp.jpg

Does anyone around here know how to extract audio from the original film for my animatic's audio soundtrack?
EDIT: forget it - found the answer... :)

pushav
02-21-2006, 11:00 PM
Nice sequential storytelling Mr. Mu

SpiritDreamer
02-24-2006, 11:02 AM
Hi... MR MU

Good story telling...a lot harder than it would seem LOL!!
Great exercise for the imagination.....GREAT JOB ...MR MU...:thumbsup:
Too bad you don't have your Painter program yet...would have made it a lot easier..layers ect.
Were you the only one doing this exercise, and how much time do you have left on it
just curious...........I have a few ideas that might help you out. :)

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
02-24-2006, 02:39 PM
Too bad you don't have your Painter program yet...would have made it a lot easier..layers ect.

ouch, yea rub it in...:D you know, things are just plain strange, the mailman with the package was standing there in front of the door with the Painter package and he left because some dickhead had removed the names on the door bells of the house (haha funny) so the distributor got the package back saying "unkown" and the dealer (after a phone call) is waiting now til the package arrives back to send it again.

That whole freaking delivery is jinxed I am telling you....



Were you the only one doing this exercise, and how much time do you have left on it
just curious...........I have a few ideas that might help you out. :)

Well it is too late for this Microchalleneg, but please let me know anyway as I am already settled to not let this be my last storyboard. And, besides, I always appreciate feedback and knowledge from you...

I am all ears!

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8691/shot179yk.jpg

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9318/shot188rx.jpg

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5480/shot195ck.jpg

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9660/shot203jg.jpg

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5606/shot218eq.jpg

Rebeccak
02-24-2006, 02:45 PM
Mr. Mu,

You and Painter were just not meant to be! :sad: That's crazy! I really hope this gets sorted out soon...hasn't it been months? :eek:

You're doing a great job with your studies! Has anyone else entered the storyboarding competition? :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Mu
02-24-2006, 04:22 PM
Yes,

RaisedByWolves, Zyrinx and Wiggin have joined in!

http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=156

My problem at the time being is that I won't be able to add soundtrack because I don't have the DVD at home. I went outside (you know, into that thing that is widely known as the real world) and tried to rent it at two video stores and both of them only had the crappy two other parts in store.

How strange is that?!

It's going to be a silent one, now. But it was fun, however, and a great step into this whole animation thing. When I was around 12 I loved to create flip-book films drawing stickfigures! And I only recently realized that with my newly relaunched draughtsmen career (:D ) I can revive this hobby-horse, too. Of course, PainterIX, with its animation features could be a big helper, here....

Argh, no, I accidentially reminded myself!

BTW, yes, Rebecca - it was somewhere at the beginning of January I first ordered it at the other dealer...

:rolleyes:

:cry:

Rebeccak
02-24-2006, 04:35 PM
Awww, soon, Mr. Mu...you will take over the world!!! Muahahahaha!!! :scream: :applause:

There there...Painter will arrive...when it is time...:wise:

:D

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
02-24-2006, 04:37 PM
*wipes a tear off his lower lid*

*straightens himself*


thank you!

Rebeccak
02-24-2006, 04:38 PM
:D Hehe...thank goodness for ArtRage, then. ;)

Cheers, :)

~Rk

Mu
02-24-2006, 08:24 PM
final panels


http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3921/shot225fq.jpg

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/245/shot237iq.jpg

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2507/shot247zs.jpg

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8568/shot255oe.jpg

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5457/shot266zu.jpg

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9471/shot273jd.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2220/shot284yx.jpg

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/1112/shot296rj.jpg

Mu
02-24-2006, 08:25 PM
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/8710/shot307ct.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/5194/shot314zd.jpg

Now I will go knit it all together

Mu
02-24-2006, 09:41 PM
the finished story reel (http://rapidshare.de/files/14055973/MicroChallengeMatrix_0001.wmv.html)



It was fun! I will definitely be expanding on CG filmmaking in the long run... in the long long run...:D

Rebeccak
02-26-2006, 10:43 PM
A big thank you, Mr. Mu. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Mu
02-27-2006, 08:41 AM
it was my pleasure, you know.... :)

SpiritDreamer
02-27-2006, 04:34 PM
Hi....MR MU...:wavey:

I am going to wait tell MRS SPIRIT DREAMER gets home from work, and let her open that surprize up...I don't want to mess up and lose it or something...she's the computer wizardtress
around here, not me....I just paint...:)

Talk to you later...:thumbsup:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

SpiritDreamer
02-28-2006, 02:11 AM
WOW !! BEAUTIFUL..STRAIGHT FROM THE HEART AND A BEAUTIFUL HEART IT SOUNDS LIKE
Thought I was listening to Crosby Stills Nash and Young there for a moment
Thank you so much for shareing a piece of your heart with us...MR MU
IT will always be a treasure in our ...CHEST
Well I don't want to ramble on too long ...just want to tell you.....THANK YOU... and:wavey:
HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT AND BEAUTIFUL DAY, in return for makeing our day that way...:thumbsup:
TAKE CARE.....Marat

Glenn and Jessica // MR and MRS SPIRIT DREAMER...

Mu
02-28-2006, 08:25 AM
Glad the two of you liked it.... again: it was my pleasure! :)

Rebeccak
03-01-2006, 09:44 PM
If you haven't already, you should totally join the Challenge!

http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/journey_begins/enter.php

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
03-02-2006, 10:22 AM
Hello fellow Anatomy Forumites!

I joined the challenge based on my general approach of bold idiocy...:D

But I will give my best and already have an idea I really like. Also, this first sketch was fun to do and I like it very much, though it is os unrefined and sketchy.

Check out my thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=323719) - I will put work into it and can use the assistance.


http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/12/10148/10148_1141259002_large.jpg

Mu
03-03-2006, 10:23 AM
two new character studies for the Challenge, Eldest and Youngling,


http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/12/10148/10148_1141342485_medium.jpg


http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/12/10148/10148_1141322911_medium.jpg

SpiritDreamer
03-03-2006, 10:41 PM
Mr Mu:

The Lakota Sioux, a Plains Tribe in the US, former leaders Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, have a Sacred Place called the Black Hills. Considered the Center of their World. And where all the Spirits of their ancestors come from and return. And is where they seek their visions on their Vision Quest.
In the Australian Tribes the Center of their World is Ayers Rock. Serves the similar function as the Black Hills. They believe that is where all their ancestors spirits come from and return on their journey. Thier basic spiritual faith a belief is that life is a mystical existence and journey, and they call this journey "Dream Time". Is kind of like the philosophy the Chinese have of "Is life the dream or is the dream life." Any way not easy to explain in just a few words.
Might also read the words to my Master and Servant Challenge. Has similar thoughts of the earth being the container of spirit..

Here are a few links maybe can help with your research.

Ayer Rock and the Digeridoo:

http://aboriginalart.com.au/didgeridoo/what_is.html (http://aboriginalart.com.au/didgeridoo/what_is.html)
Lots of Digeridoos:
http://www.didgeswedoo.com.au/ (http://www.didgeswedoo.com.au/)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Aborigine_music (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Aborigine_music)
Google images of Ayers Rock:
http://images.google.com/images?q=ayer+rock&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images (http://images.google.com/images?q=ayer+rock&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images)
Beautiful photos of Ayers Rock with sunsets:
http://www.synaptic.bc.ca/gallery/uluru.htm (http://www.synaptic.bc.ca/gallery/uluru.htm)
Dream Time and pictures:
http://www.crystalinks.com/ayersrock.html (http://www.crystalinks.com/ayersrock.html)



Marat: Good luck on your Journey and your Vision Quest
Take Care
Glenn

Rebeccak
03-03-2006, 11:02 PM
I'm really liking these latest sketches, Mr. Mu! :thumbsup:

Mu
03-12-2006, 01:32 AM
I am happy with this one:

:)

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/2305/dsg6430ru.jpg

Rebeccak
03-12-2006, 02:40 PM
There's something really cool about this piece, and I can almost see it as a stylized animation, where the boat is rocking with the waves, and I can hear the sound of a foghorn...:)...it's really interesting how some things can spark your imagination, but I think this is a cool direction and possibly one worth exploring further.

Nice work Mr. Mu! :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
03-12-2006, 06:47 PM
Hi .....MR MU....:wavey:

The lines converging that I mentioned about for this painting in the Evocative section, where
you posted it ...are...the horizon line...the shore line of the big island, the top line of that island, and the figure that sticks up from the bow of the boat,...is that CHARON with an orr. That's what I keep seeing.....anyway, all of those lines or edges converge almost dead center
in the composition, and when I get to that point of convergence, is Charons head looking back at the figure sitting down, or at the destination. Right above the figure in the bow of the boat.
That's the area I was talking about....maybe define that area more, with distance,light, or object, or all three.
Also, stay away from dead center, convergence....a neat trick...take an unused picture matt,
cut it in half, top and bottom...now put both halves onto your painting...slide halves of matt
over each other to recompose your painting...make less sky, less bottom, away from center
ect.....good way to experiment with composition....hope I did not confuse you to much here
Just trying to keep you from falling into compositional traps.:)

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
03-12-2006, 08:10 PM
.the shore line of the big island, the top line of that island, and the figure that sticks up from the bow of the boat,...is that CHARON with an orr. That's what I keep seeing.....anyway, all of those lines or edges converge almost dead center

ah! now I understand!

Embarrasingly, avoiding dead center was one of the first things Kirt taught me in this workshop....:blush:
Ehem, I will keep an eye on that.

Thank you!

Here's another face. Basically I am trying to muster up the courage to start my character position sketches for the challenge...
*sigh*

until then, this:

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6498/facestudy6tj.jpg

Rebeccak
03-12-2006, 08:32 PM
Mr. Mu,

This image has a nice mood to it. :) Are you using reference? If not, I really recommend using reference ~ I think it will help put a lot of things into place You might prefer to start from imagination, and then look for similar ref. Just a thought. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Mu
03-12-2006, 08:59 PM
Mr. Mu,

Are you using reference? If not, I really recommend using reference

You are right. I am having a hard time at the moment putting as much work into the paintings as I actually want to. Long boring story.

My Painter package actually just dissolved itself into nothingness on its way from my nephew (who did the purchase) to me. The German parcel service DHL lazed it away, it never arrived, and as my nephew did not make it an insured package my money's gone and the package not there...

Almost three months of the strangest incidents in connection with my attempt to get hold of this software passed and I am totally tired by now.
I am trying to think of a workflow which will allow me to work at the resolution the Challenge demands. I will have to swap to and fro between artweaver and artrage - dunno.

Alas! I am recovering from the main frustration right now and basically trying not to lose momentum over this bs. Sadly though, I felt it was the right time to step up and make use of more sophisticated tools.

Whatever.

(wow what an elaborate whitewash for my laziness about reference, eh?:scream: I will have to get to that for the challenge - thanks for not tiring of pointing that out to me, Rebecca :) )

LoTekK
03-13-2006, 04:14 PM
Sucks about your copy of Painter. :(

You've got some interesting stuff going on here, nice perception of form. Nice mood in the campfire pic, too. I gotta salute you for using 100% opaque brushes, too, and getting decent form out of them. :) But yes, more reference! :)

Rebeccak
03-13-2006, 04:16 PM
Oh man, I am really sorry to hear about this, Mr. Mu.

I really wish there were something I could do...

Rebeccak
03-13-2006, 06:57 PM
Mr. Mu,

I've been asking around for you, and I was given this good advice:

"If it never arrived, then he should contact the people who make Painter. They should be able to see that he's not registered his license of it, so they may be willing to send a new copy of it."

Also, when you talk to them, see if you can change your order from the box version to (http://store.corel.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&mpe_id=10654&jspStoreDir=CorelUS&intv_id=21554&partNumber=OL_PF09&evtype=CpgnClick&langId=-1&catalogId=10103&ddkey=ClickInfo)the download version (http://store.corel.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&mpe_id=10654&jspStoreDir=CorelUS&intv_id=21554&partNumber=OL_PF09&evtype=CpgnClick&langId=-1&catalogId=10103&ddkey=ClickInfo). Then you don't have to worry about delivery. It's $10 cheaper, though you might want to order a backup cd if that's what they offer (I'm not sure about that, you should ask). Make sure to get the name of the person with whom you speak (sorry if I'm sounding like a dad, this is what my dad always tells me :D) so if something goes wrong with the download or whatever, you can always know who to call back.

Hope this helps. I'm still waiting to hear from someone who may or may not be able to help.

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
03-13-2006, 11:30 PM
Bear in mind Mr. Mu, that even if the package was delivered, you never registered the license. So assuming it was lost (and not stolen, and someone is secretly painting kittens in their basement ;)) you should still be able to get another copy for the price of shipping as mentioned in PM.

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
03-13-2006, 11:46 PM
(and not stolen, and someone is secretly painting kittens in their basement ;))

...well if someone of the parcel service stole it it would be a perfect punishment: sitting in a basement, having to paint kittens...:scream:

thanks for everything you did today. I will try and contact them. We shall see.

:love:

Rebeccak
03-13-2006, 11:48 PM
No problem. ;)

erilaz
03-14-2006, 01:49 PM
Progressing along Mr. Mu! Keep on hammering. It's a pity about the painter. i hate when stuff like that happens...:sad:

Mu
03-14-2006, 11:19 PM
LoTekk - thanks for visiting me in here... My brushes aren't always 100% opaque. I do use a round hard edged brush most of the time for sculting, though - if that's what you meant. If not, please be so kind as to thinkk of another compliment...:scream:

erilaz - thanks for your comment, man. Eventually, all shall be well. :beer:

I have always wondered how using reference for a piece that actually started from imagination would work. I mean, I was wondering "Do I have to look for the needle in the haystack and find the one photograph that is exactly like the object I painted?"

I just compiled a lot of three-quarter shots of young men and it works like a charm. Much better now, imho. Started a general remodeling of the forms. The eyes had to go for now. Will use more ref in the days to come for this and other stuff.
*sigh*
I wish I hadn't avoided this for so long. I figured I would feel limited somehow, but it's actually quite a release to not have to guess what the features look like.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8180/facestudy27ah.jpg

Rebeccak
03-14-2006, 11:21 PM
Nice work, Mr. Mu! The bridge has been breached! The bridge has been breached! :D

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
03-14-2006, 11:24 PM
after all this time your blitzposting still leaves me flabbergasted!:eek:

and, erm, yea... ref...:D You are free to ho declaim on "I told you so"

:D

It's the dawn of a new era...

:bounce:

erilaz
03-15-2006, 07:43 AM
Hey mu, if you're ever stuck for reference, i'm pretty decent at finding it. Let me know.

Mu
03-18-2006, 02:03 PM
erilaz - thanks - I will get back to it!

I noticed I need a schedule or something as there's so many activities with overlapping timeframes around here.

- The challenge is the all important goal. It is ongoing. I need to get that done.
- secondary goals: finishing the catcher in the Rye and that last portrait doodle.
- wishful thinking: finding the time to participate in the comic book challenge.

So, first of all I will finish that last portrait doodle, then come up with a final concept for the challenge and then finish the catcher in the Rye.

just an in-between doodle to reduce my schedule to absurdity:scream: :

"Don't be silly it's only a tree..."

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/2656/treeghost4js.jpg

Rebeccak
03-18-2006, 02:25 PM
Hey, that's really cool, Mr. Mu! I like this piece a lot ~ seems you are drawn to horror / mystery types of genres. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Mu
03-18-2006, 07:46 PM
Rebecca - thanks! As for horror in general - I am actually a complete coward (I could not sleep with my copy of "It" in teh same room and eventually gave it away...:D :rolleyes: )

But, well, scaring others might be better :scream:

I forgot to add something very important to my schedule...


http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/9563/davincicover0fa.jpg

my copy of "Master Draughtsmen - Leonardo da Vinci" arrived the other day and now I have some 40 (+ another 50 from artrenewal.org) plates from raffael and da Vinci. So regular Master copies will be part of "the Schedule", too.



something completely different:

I never added this piece from the sketchathon, but I was fairly happy with it at the time:

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/3581/olympicgymnasiast0ja.jpg

Rebeccak
03-18-2006, 07:54 PM
Hey, great to hear you received your book! Heh, at least the postal system is not completely unreliable ay? :D I really look forward to seeing your master studies. :)

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
03-18-2006, 08:31 PM
Hi...MR MU...:)

Was thinking that a face like that one in the tree, might look good in one of those sacred
rocks, that go with the story of the DREAM TIME, which is the basis of your journey..:shrug:

Looks like a great book you just got....MRS SPIRIT DREAMER just got me a great book for
valentines day...Leonardo's Notebooks....Edited by H. Anna Suh ...GREAT BOOK...:thumbsup:

Like those studies you've been doing, looks like your really getting the hang of it, and each one
is looking better than the last....looking forward to seeing more thoughts on your journey...:applause:

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
03-19-2006, 12:01 AM
Heh, at least the postal system is not completely unreliable ay? :D
lol, yea... that uncomplicated delivery took me rather off guard. I mean, the package arrived and I was like..."what? just like that? No inquiring? Nothing messed up?":scream:



Was thinking that a face like that one in the tree, might look good in one of those sacred
rocks, that go with the story of the DREAM TIME, which is the basis of your journey..:shrug:

wow. Interesting idea. I will keep it in mind. :thumbsup:



just got me a great book for
valentines day...Leonardo's Notebooks....Edited by H. Anna Suh ...GREAT BOOK...:thumbsup:

I talked to a friend of mine today. She's a writer, too (she already published her book while I "only" short stories *envy*) and she told me how fascinated she was with his personality and the fact he wrote mirrored notes a.s.o. - so his notebooks must be a fascinating read! He was one of those universal geniuses - ingenious at everything he did. I hope science one day finds out he sucked at music, that would save me...:scream:

Mu
03-21-2006, 10:56 PM
I officially hate this face. I completely remodeled it. I shaved off the hair. I needed to find out what the skull looked like again. Still using ref.
Concentrating on the planes and how they are aligned, the angles between them and such.

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/3685/facestudy41lt.jpg

Mu
03-24-2006, 03:47 PM
remodelling and tweaking and shifting and it always changes, but never gets any better.

Feel humiliated by this head in the meantime. Maybe it simply was too early to go for a finished painting from imagination, even with reference to keep me on track (which it doesn't somehow).
I obviously don't know my shit. Back to school for me. Next thing I post will be a mastercopy.

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/9354/facestudy56ep.jpg

Rebeccak
03-24-2006, 03:57 PM
Mr. Mu,

Don't be so hard on yourself! This is a good solid study, and I think the main bit is to try to blend the values a bit more. :) I am not very familiar with ArtRage, but may download it today.

I think people go overboard in their stressing of being able to draw from imagination. It's not the be all end all, it takes years of drawing from life and reference to be able to draw and paint from imagination. Some of these sayings get bandied about the internet and taken out of a real context. It is ultimately important to draw from imagination, but think about artists like Degas who drew from models until his death ~ MOST artists took life as their subject, so I don't see why it seems MORE important to some artists to be able to draw from imagination than from life. To me, it's a distortion of a principle.

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
03-24-2006, 04:52 PM
Mr. Mu,

I did a paintover of your piece ~ hope it helps!

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/rebeccak5/Anatomy%20Thread%20of%20Mr%20Mu/Head-Demo_Mr-Mu.jpg

I think the main bit is to blend the values and to really go after some darker darks in the skin tones ~ you tend to make everything too light, and then run out of value in the light range, which flattens things out. Also, where a light edge of the head / subject meets the background, make that area of the background darker, and vice versa. You don't have to make the bkgrd black, but just something darker to set the foreground object off.



Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
03-24-2006, 04:55 PM
Hi...MR MU...:)

I have to agree with Rebecca on the points she just mentioned. I think that the original
thought or vision can be captured in a thumnail drawing, using just your imagination, but
to take it to it's completion, you are much better off working from life...will get a much better
result, from the real thing, than a generalized acount from your imagination.:)
THANKS FOR THE ...Z BRUSH information ...MR MU..will try it out shortly...:eek:

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
03-24-2006, 07:37 PM
Rebecca - thanks so much for this paintover. It looks so much better without being too far away from what I have so far - that makes it very comprehensible for me. Will study your advice in depth...:P

Spirit Dreamer - Yeah, I just came to the same conclusion. Without ref I am lost. Good to know, though and indeed: It'd make me much happier to be able to paint good by using ref than just being able to paint only so-so without ref... erm, heavy syntax... hope I got my point across...:scream:

Rebeccak
03-24-2006, 07:47 PM
No problem, Murat. :) Glad it's helpful.

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
03-24-2006, 09:40 PM
wow, this IS helpful...!

Darkness falls across the land...:scream:...meaning I darkened my overall values to give me more headroom. Also, I had to think of something zhuzhu said somewhere that along with hard edges it's important to use soft edges for proper blending, too. And as Rebecca also said my pics lacked blending I used that soft edged brush for the first time.

What can I say? It blends like magic. I can see why people say to not over do it, but seeing that I did not use it at all so far, I can't go wrong, can I? :D

first round:

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/8200/facestudy61ys.jpg

Rebeccak
03-24-2006, 09:46 PM
Wow, Murat! HUGE improvement! Keep up the excellent work, and keep going! :bounce:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
03-24-2006, 10:28 PM
LOL!!....LOOK AT IT THIS WAY MR MU.you learned a lot about painting in the IMPASTO STYLE:scream: ....

That blending looks good...sometimes it looks good, when you go on top of the blends with
the impasto brush strokes, and just feather the edges of the impasto brushstroks a little, just
to soften their edges a little, and leave crisp surface of brush stroke in center of stroke.
Now ...you do know what impasto brush strokes are ....DON'T YOU ....LMAO...:bounce: :)

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
03-24-2006, 11:49 PM
you do know what impasto brush strokes are ....DON'T YOU

mmmm...Impasto Bolognese! Yummy...:D

:scream:

cool tip with leaving the crisp surface in the center will try it - after I got round to giving this two more treatments of blending and widening value range.

:thumbsup:

Mu
03-25-2006, 01:26 PM
round 2 (I am starting to sound like that voice in Tekken...:scream: )


http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/6393/facestudy78ol.jpg

Rebeccak
03-25-2006, 02:30 PM
Wow, Murat! Now that is what I call fast progress! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
03-26-2006, 12:23 PM
round 3

slowly getting there. Most important improvement above all visible ones is that I get a feeling for how you can subtly change the whole appearance with a few blending strokes. It's fun - but not finished...

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/2701/facestudy88uv.jpg

Rebeccak
03-26-2006, 06:27 PM
Great progress, Murat! I would suggest finding reference for the ear...but I know how that goes...:D :scream:

Mu
03-26-2006, 06:35 PM
Hey Rebecca,

What's wrong with the ear? I consider it finished....:scream:


No, seriously,
I learned how to break myself of the bad habit of not using ref... I was thinking that I will probably give him a hairdo (when I fixed his nose and some of the facial planes, that is) so I don't even know if the ear will be visible after all.

But, anyway, thanks again for your fantastic paintover. I realized I absolutely did not get what you meant by "more blending" and now it opened another new door for me.

:thumbsup:

I do want to get this finished soon though in order to come up with something new for the challenge and make it a good habit to draw mastercopies...

Rebeccak
03-26-2006, 06:39 PM
Sounds good! :) I look forward to your master copies...given how quickly you are picking up digital painting, I've no doubt that you would produce some nice pieces. :)

LoTekK
03-27-2006, 11:06 AM
Coming along nicely, Mu! The portrait piece is looking pretty good so far, but I feel like you're detailing unevenly; as in, you've got the eyes done up nice and tight, along with the nose and mouth, but the rest is completely undefined. Try detailing in stages, to some extent, so that you push detail all over the piece in somewhat equal measure. There was a bit in one of the Scott Robertson Gnomon DVDs that summed up a good reason for this: if you decide you're bored of the piece, and it's basically been detailed to a mostly equal level throughout, you're okay. However, if you've detailed the heck out of, say, an eye, but left the rest of the painting undefined, you can't very well drop it and say it looks finished. :)

But keep it up! Looking forward to your progress.

Mu
03-28-2006, 07:06 PM
Hey Lotekk - good advice about applying only one level of detail to a subject, but to be quite frank as of yet I am not sure about how to apply detail to, say, a cheek....:D
We shall see...

_______________________

I remember the first time I saw zhuzhu's watercolor tutorial I was totally electrified. I had the feeling that "anything goes" digitally, as watercolor is the most chaotic medium I could think of.

I realized it was for Photoshop, though, which I did and do not own.

However, when I learned to control Artweaver (http://www.artweaver.de)'s brush creating capabilities one of the first project was to create watercolor brushes. So I used my own set of watercolor brushes for this (link in the sig...)

With these I followed Zhuzhu's tutorial, making use of the GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/)at times (to be precise: when Zhu recommended using the levels dialog box in PS I used the GIMP on the exported layer which held the colour).

Also, I did not apply the paper texture to the whole canvas but only to parts of it as Artweaver allows a brush to only apply texture (with pressure control over its sharpness a.s.o.)

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1092/zhutestingexport0ax.jpg

Rebeccak
03-28-2006, 10:16 PM
I quite admire your experimentation, Murat! Would you like a paintover to show some areas that might be corrected in terms of drawing? Up to you. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Mu
03-28-2006, 10:52 PM
Rebecca - thank you. And as concerns paintovers and actually anything you have to say...

err... let me make this official:

_________________________________
Certificate Of Counselorship

This is to certify that Murat Kayi, the beginner in the following, considers Rebecca Kimmel, the wise woman in the following, his official counselor and teacher.

Subject matter of this certificate are blunders, fumble-driven weak concepts, blunt incompotence and various other occurrences of beginnership on the part of the beginner.

Paintovers, subtle or broad hints, laughing and pointing, as well as praise and backslapping are hereby encouraged, allowed and appreciated on any occasion.
_________________________________

think this should settle this question once and for all...:D

Meanwhile at his desk....
Here's an update on the facestudy. I tried to correct the nose and facial planes as well as give more detail to the lips and the cheeks and the eyes.
I also experimented with texture, but that I will only reveal later on. Thinking about a hairdo, but only udercover...
I increased contrast...with sliders this time around, because I know what I am doing...hehe God, feels good to say that! :scream:

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6672/facestudy94ox.jpg

Rebeccak
03-28-2006, 11:02 PM
Murat,

Very funny! :scream: And very nice work with the portrait! Very impressive progress! :thumbsup:

Okay, below is a paintover gif:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/rebeccak5/Anatomy%20Thread%20of%20Mr%20Mu/Mu-Review-02_paintover.gif

and the paintover jpg:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/rebeccak5/Anatomy%20Thread%20of%20Mr%20Mu/Mu-Review-02.jpg


I think the key is to focus on the structure of the ribcage and pelvis, and to think of them as basic forms: the rib cage / upper torso can be thought of as sort of a box, as well as can the pelvis / lower torso. Always find the center line of the body, and find the center line of the face. The axes of the features of the face ~ brow, eyes, nose, lips, chin, etc. ~ will all be parallel to one another, no matter what the angle.

Hope this helps. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Mu
03-30-2006, 03:46 PM
here's his hairdo. Think it's pretty obvious whose tutorial I followed for it.

Consulted some navajo portraits - had the feeling he was sort of native american.

Next things will be final round on the face and skin textures as well as background (simple one)

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7263/facestudyhairdo4hp.jpg

SpiritDreamer
03-31-2006, 03:16 AM
Hi...MR MU...:wavey:

Maybe just a little more cheekbone on far side, corner of mouth for expression, raise center arch line of nose maybe,....depending on what age you are going for. I think you have come a long ways in a very short time....really nice job...:thumbsup:

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
03-31-2006, 07:32 AM
Maybe just a little more cheekbone on far side, corner of mouth for expression, raise center arch line of nose maybe


hey, excellent hints - all three of them!

Mu
03-31-2006, 09:34 PM
followed Glenn's advice, concentrated on the mouth in general, too. Next thing: skin textures


http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9104/facestudyhairdo23ny.jpg

Mu
03-31-2006, 11:57 PM
experimentation on skin texture...
followed a neb tutorial for it. Problem is I am missing a suggested layer mode, but it might work with an equivalent in my app. Also important is to somehow separately do the eyelids and the nostrils as well as the lips.

more testing necessary though...


http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/3087/skintexturetest2ui.jpg

Rebeccak
04-01-2006, 12:03 AM
Murat,

First I want to say that I'm sorry to see the name "Mr. Mu" go the way of the Dodo bird! :cry: I really liked that user name, but I'm guessing you had to change it to get a CGPortfolio account. Ah, well, we can't have it all ~ and CGP is definitely worth it. But "Mr. Mu" had a certain charm. It will be missed. :)

Your painting is coming along terrifically! I think the key is, again, to find reference!!! ;) You've taken it to this point, but the very least step would be to find reference for the eyes ~ I think this will help you to determine the gender of this person, who currently looks a bit gender neutral. :) But you are making great strides here, and I really look forward to seeing how far you push your skills ~ I admire your willingness to try new things and to experiment, and I think with a lot of work, you will really start to produce some nice works. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Mu
04-01-2006, 11:57 AM
First I want to say that I'm sorry to see the name "Mr. Mu" go the way of the Dodo bird! :cry: I really liked that user name, but I'm guessing you had to change it to get a CGPortfolio account. Ah, well, we can't have it all ~ and CGP is definitely worth it. But "Mr. Mu" had a certain charm. It will be missed. :)


Tell me about it! I always had to think about Peter Lorre and Mr. Moto when typing in my username, but alas! the names they are a-changing...


Your painting is coming along terrifically! I think the key is, again, to find reference!!! ;) You've taken it to this point, but the very least step would be to find reference for the eyes ~ I think this will help you to determine the gender of this person, who currently looks a bit gender neutral. :)


Yea, I was wondering myself what gender this should be. And apart from the eyes I still don't know about the lips and the cheeks either... but it's not finished yet...



But you are making great strides here, and I really look forward to seeing how far you push your skills ~ I admire your willingness to try new things and to experiment, and I think with a lot of work, you will really start to produce some nice works. :)


thank you, and I really should, considering I gave away the "Mr." to showcase them properly...:D

Jack Shannon
04-01-2006, 02:22 PM
Mr Mu,

Wow, I admire your experimentation. I agree with Rebecca about finding referance, you've got really far without one but it needs more.

So, now that you've got tone and form sussed, will you be experimenting with colour maybe?

I miss the Mr. too, but you'll always be Mr Mu to me. :) How do you change your name btw, because I need to change mine so I can buy a cg portfolio.

~Jack

Mu
04-01-2006, 02:28 PM
Hi Jack,

colour will have to wait a little, I am afraid...:D

I actually encourage the usage of Mr. when adressing me as the Mu:scream:

There's a link on the top of the page to the portfolio portal. When you are loggd in you can create a portfolio for free with up to 5 images. The very first step is adjusting your username, so it's automatic...

take care

Mr. Mu

SpiritDreamer
04-07-2006, 12:06 AM
Hi Mr Mu:
Pushed the paint anround a little on your face - hope you don't mind.
Just trying to help you out a little bit.
Take Care
Glenn
http://artbyglenngallegos.com/images/MR_MU_INDIAN_FACE_7.jpg

Mu
04-07-2006, 08:35 AM
As concerns paintovers you might want to check out the certificate I handed out to Rebecca up at the top of this page...applies to you, too...:D


wow, the nose and the cheekbones are really much more in perspective, now!

I will go for these changes before I really come to the final stage of skin textures.

Thanks!

Mu
04-11-2006, 08:54 PM
I am through with this. I learned a LOT doing this due to all the helpful comments and paintovers - thank you so much everyone.

Other things on my painting schedule need to take over, now.

Here it is:

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7048/facestudyfinal9au.jpg

Maladie
04-12-2006, 02:06 PM
Hey Mu, your progress in this last portrait is awesome!! It strengthens my determination to become a CGartist, because I can see what is possible if you just apply yourself. (only you're having the top people visit your thread - how'd you do that?:))

Anyway it's great because you're also a beginner, but slightly ahead of me, so I can use your thread as a goal that's actually in reach (don't we all want to be Linda Bergkvist?). I'm looking forward to seeing more of your work, and getting your crits on my improved gypsy girl (yes, she has improved!). Keep it up!:thumbsup:

Maladie
04-12-2006, 02:08 PM
PS. Where is the hair tutorial? I read the one about the face too, but could never get what he ment- the emboss-thing just didn't work...

Rebeccak
04-12-2006, 04:54 PM
Maladie,

Here's the hair tutorial by Linda Bergkvist:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=259468&page=1&pp=15

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
04-12-2006, 08:51 PM
Thanks so much, Maladie, for everything you said.

:)


(only you're having the top people visit your thread - how'd you do that?:))

LOL, I never saw it that way:scream:

Psst - I pay them:scream:

honestly, Rebecca and Glenn are top people in many ways and I appreciate their presence very much, but from what I have seen it would be very hard to find a thread where Rebecca has not shown up a lot.:D
Same goes for Glenn - both of them just love helping people out when they feel they can do it and I am trying to adapt to this role model.

which brings me to nebs tutorial - tell me what software you are using and maybe I can help you, because I had to do this in artweaver and was missing some features, but I managed to make use of the basic techniques in that tutorial.

Mu
04-26-2006, 09:03 PM
coming back to my challenge entry again:

here's the pose for the two main characters.

http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/12/10148/10148_1146079301_large.jpg

Rebeccak
04-26-2006, 10:10 PM
Murat,

I'll give you $1,000 if you can guess what my question will be...:D

answer: are you using reference? :)

Mu
04-27-2006, 08:39 AM
It's funny, while I posted this I felt a tingle in my neck and a korean voice that only I could hear demanded to show the bloody reference for this shot (or else...):scream:


I don't have any.


:D


Yet.


I plan to harass erilaz who, in a fit of flippancy offered to find me ref should I be in need of one...

P.S.:I accept paypal and cash...:D

SpiritDreamer
05-10-2006, 11:39 PM
Hi Mr Mu

Really like your concept for this one.
Couldn't help myself, had to play with your painting a little bit...hope you don't mind. The sunrises are always pink in my neighborhood. Don't know what they are in Australia. Probably has a lot to do with what is in the atmosphere.

GOOD LUCK ON YOUR CHALLENGE!

Talk to you later.

Take Care
Glenn


http://artbyglenngallegos.com/images/MR_MU_CHALLENGE.jpg

SpiritDreamer
05-19-2006, 12:12 AM
Hi Mr Mu :wavey:

Woke up this morning, looked at your painting and was liking it alot. Started playing with it once more; went to apply surface texture, and tinted it with that peach color upper left corner of color chart.

Then I got stuck in warp - LOL - and this is what I ended up with.

Thought you might get a smile on your face when you saw it. Read you were getting frantic....Hope my version gives you some food for thought on your journey. You never know.

Hang in there...The challenge is almost over.:eek: :scream:

Take Care
Glenn

http://artbyglenngallegos.com/images/MR_MU_CHALLENGE_8.jpg

http://artbyglenngallegos.com/images/MR_MU_CHALLENGE_9.jpg

Mu
05-19-2006, 09:33 AM
Hi Glenn!


thanks again - I replied in your thread.

*sigh*

I am so glad when I come back to this thread and just continue learning and studies again.

:banghead:

:)

:banghead:

Mu
05-20-2006, 02:48 PM
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/5585/calvinrant3la.jpg

Painter 40mins of rantmania

Rebeccak
05-20-2006, 04:48 PM
LOL ~ where did you get the characters? It doesn't look like the originals :D

Mu
05-20-2006, 06:06 PM
I did them with liquid inks referenced from a cherished volume of Calvin & Hobbes (my favourite comic strip characters). Unfortunately, I don't have a scanner so I had to place it on my desk, do sketches with the Painter 2B-pencil and then ink it with the liquid inks.

Was fun actually.

more so than my challenge entry...:banghead:

Rebeccak
05-20-2006, 06:09 PM
LOL, those are pretty good! :) Regarding your Challenge entry, fear not ~ it was a first attempt, why beat yourself up over it? It takes a lot of time, and doubtless this was a good learning experience. If it makes you work harder, that's good, right? :)

Cheers,

~Rk

Mu
05-26-2006, 09:19 AM
Hey there,

I am back...:scream:

Just so you know I have not been lazy while gnawing on my challenge piece (which I cancelled - it was unfinishable for me at my stage, so back to learning...yay!)

these are all either pencil or charcoal.

Some are just doodles I happened to like. Reasons given directly above the sketch...

anatomy partly wrong, but I liked it because something good happened to my edges here...
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/9370/sketches123wo.jpg





Moreover, I recently discovered a nice opportunity for real live reference gestural sketches: the playground. Whenever the weather is half decent we (family and neighbours/friends) spend hours each day on the playground and I decided I might just as well sketch a little there.

After I finally endured the awkward arty-farty feeling of bringing my sketchbook to the playground I must say it was really fun. The following sketches are sorted chronologically decending (latest first) to demonstrate what I concluded: I was getting better doing these quick live sketches... (while the good weather lasted, hope the summer will be back soon)

As to a little "trick" I tried when doing these sketches:
Apart from teh sitting folks, everyone moved rather quickly, especially the kids. In order to catch the pose I took a mental photo of them...:D I don't know if you do that, too, but if you watch people and then quickly close your eyes you sort of get a snapshot of the last thing you saw.
I sketched that and then referred for clothing or hair details to the live person againg as the actual pose is not important for that.

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/5631/sketches516qf.jpg

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/1280/sketches50ni.jpg


http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/1923/sketches62mm.jpg



http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/7408/sketches49hv.jpg

Mu
05-26-2006, 09:22 AM
continued

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1200/sketches411ii.jpg


http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/4787/sketches23ob.jpg


So, I will keep these sketches up, but my main schedule list just contains one item for the following weeks: mastercopies...

Rebeccak
05-26-2006, 09:25 AM
Hey, this is great, Mu! The life studies will stand you in good stead. I like your 'mental picture' technique ~ sounds like a good one!

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
05-26-2006, 09:34 AM
Hi Rebecca,

yea, it is a perfect additional practise. I was thinking of doing longer portraits of friends and my wife, too... we shall see...


________________________

quite forgot...

Hogarth stuff:

eyelids - the upper one protrudes more than the lower one...

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7370/sketches79ro.jpg


eyelids again - also, the lowest point of the lower lid is not directly below the highest point of the upper lid. This should be kept in mind to avoid perfectly symmetrical (and therefore wrong) lid layout.

(the scribbling in the lower right corner is where I was pondering Painter IX's 2Bpencil while sketching with a real live one and the various line qualities you get from a normal pencil and how to translate this into digital, along with paper texture and all. To cut it short: don't look there...:D )


http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4205/sketches715th.jpg

Azabache
05-26-2006, 01:59 PM
Very nice thread!!

Like someone said before, those sketches have a lot of life on them, try to work on those I'm sure something beautiful will come out of that!

Keep it up!! :thumbsup:

Azabache

Rebeccak
05-26-2006, 06:20 PM
Mu,

Good to see these Hogarth studies, they will stand you in good stead. :)

I don't know if you've seen this link, but it's a good source for the Drawings of DaVinci:

Drawings of Leonardo DaVinci (http://www.visi.com/%7Ereuteler/leonardo.html)
http://www.visi.com/~reuteler/leonardo.html

as well as the Tony Ryder website which we were discussing (and which you may have already have bookmarked):

http://www.tonyryder.com/

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
05-27-2006, 12:17 PM
HEY MR MU...GREAT TO SEE YOU BACK...:scream: :bounce: :)

Really like those studies...all of them.....little kid marching with leg up in the air...GREAT..:thumbsup:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
05-30-2006, 10:20 AM
just to keep the rhythm.

I think I will intermittently (ack, is that a word at all?) do some of these Hogarth studies...so the schedule says Hogarth and Da Vinci as well as Sorolla for the time being.

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/5473/hog17mq.jpg

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/3629/hog27nr.jpg

guagua
05-30-2006, 10:40 AM
nice Hogarth studies!:thumbsup: glad to see them:) beautiful pencil sketch

Maladie
05-30-2006, 10:41 AM
Wow, cool stuff here!!

If these books will do that for you, I want them too!:) Keep it up, and I'll email you today,

Rinske

Mu
05-30-2006, 11:04 AM
guagua - nice to have you visit my homebase, here...:)


Maladie - yea, Hogarth is worth the money. But wait a bit with your order...:D

Rebeccak
05-30-2006, 04:36 PM
Mu,

That last one especially is looking great! Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

mybutterflyiris
06-08-2006, 10:01 PM
Hey Mr. Mu
I never realized you had an anatomy thread. I really should pay more attention to poeple's sig's I gues. :) Anyways, I think you are going in the right direction. And I agree the last one's on here are nice. I hope to see more from you. :thumbsup:

SpiritDreamer
06-20-2006, 02:21 PM
HEY ....MR MU....:)

GREAT Hoarth studies.....also am really likeing those studies from life that you are doing,...people and kids in the park ect....you are captureing some really magical moments there....would like to see more of them, now that summer is here....some of them, like that kid kicking his leg up in the air, would make really nice paintings, that could be done during the winter months, you should make little notes on color next to them, so that if you ever decide to turn them into paintings, you will have a better sense of the color atmosphere...just a thought...:)
Where is your latest master copy....I came back here to look at it...turned out really moody,
and had a real nice feel to it, the last time that I saw it....nice experimenting going on with it.:thumbsup:

Well getting too hot again to be sitting here in front of this hot computer.

SUMMER........TIME TO GO ACROSS THE STREET AND JUMP IN THE OCEAN ...:scream: :)

TAKE CARE....MR MU, and ... ENJOY the DAY...:) :thumbsup:

Glenn

Mu
06-20-2006, 02:30 PM
AArrrgh!

across the street into the ocean.... damn! I cant compete with that. :scream:

But seriously I am stuck in a perpetual party with the World Cup 2006 here in Germany and absolutely love it. As things are looking right now there's even a chance that Enrique (aka DigitalSol) might be coming to town to watch football together after he cheered his Mexican team...!

As concerns MasterCopy: as I tried to point out... I am busy partying, but I am also still workin on it. I like how it develops very much and will finish it in time... in my time...:scream:

I will post the WIPs to the OFDW17 thread and the final to this thread - thanks for keeping an eye on my scribbles, Glenn...

:thumbsup:

Rebeccak
07-07-2006, 11:25 PM
Mu,

It's not too late! Let's see some heads roll!! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
07-09-2006, 12:58 PM
Sorolla FINAL (click for hires)

(and noooo Rebecca, I will not fall for your trap.... it's da Vinci for the next few weeks for me...:D )


http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/unArabe_030%7E0.jpg (http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/unArabe_030_hires.jpg)

Rebeccak
07-10-2006, 06:56 AM
Mu,

I think you did a really great job with this ~ particularly considering the massive distraction the World Cup must have been ~ :D and hope that you will do some lovely daVinci studies. :) The OFDWs are actually on hiatus until after SIGGRAPH, so you've caught a reprieve! :D

Keep pushing yourself, Mu! :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
07-10-2006, 01:51 PM
HEY....MR MU....IS THE PARTY FINALLY OVER....:scream:

REALLY like the finale result on your master copty.....GREAT MOOD...:applause: :thumbsup:

Can't wait to see some of your DaVINCI studies.....been thinking of trying out a couple of his expressions from his character drawings in Z BRUSH....have a great book that MRS SPIRIT DREAMER got me....Leonardo's Notebooks....Edited by H. Anna Suh....GREAT BOOK...chalked full of his character drawings and imaginings...some really great refference material in there for
facial expressions.
LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING YOUR STUDIES AND PROGRESS...:thumbsup:

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
07-12-2006, 10:13 PM
so,

today is the first day of my mastercopy marathon.

I figured I just randomly pick one of my references and it turned out to be a rafael, not a Da Vinci, but that is not oo bad, because I eventuall will copy them all...


Ref:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/normal_Raphael_Study_for_Adam.jpg



I configured a custom pallette in Painter with a Liquid Ink tool a pencil and a ballpen (inspired by the masterful simplicity of Rebecca's ballpen miracles...:D )

first impression: I suck.
...and as I put my struggles on the record in this thread of mine it is safe to say that I officially suck...:banghead:

On the other hand I wanted to do this to get better and it was to be expected that the first steps would prove to be hard...

sigh

here's my first attempt to just hazily grasp the general pose with a liquid ink variant. The head tilt and the neck curves are driving me insane. More to come...

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/studyforadam.jpg

Rebeccak
07-12-2006, 10:16 PM
IRC peeps! FTW!!!

:D

Mu, great stuff ~ can't wait to see more.

Why am I on the internet? I'm at the beach. :curious:

Originally posted by Mu: first impression: I suck.
...and as I put my struggles on the record in this thread of mine it is safe to say that I officially suck...
ROFL ~ not true. ;)

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
07-12-2006, 11:04 PM
HEY....MR MU.....:) ....RANDOMLY PICK ....that doesn't sound like the MR MU that I know...:scream:

There is a pretty good pen,... in the pen section in Painter #9....It's called THICK + THIN
Gives a real nice varieable line, from thick to thin, depending on how much pressure you apply.
Might be great for the aproach you are going for in these studies. Just thought it worth mentioning, in case you didn't know about it..:shrug:
I like that study so far,...looks like you have gotten the twist in the figure down pretty good,
and the proportions look great...hand and wrist could be just a tad bigger maybe..to capture the energy in that area, that it takes to hold that pose together...the twist of the trunk..torso ect.....the hands are kind of like holding a wound up spring..the body ...in place..., and are what is keeping it fom unwinding, or uncoiling...hows that for a metaphor...:scream:
Looking forward to seeing the developement on these studies...should be GREAT...:thumbsup:

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
07-12-2006, 11:29 PM
Rebecca,

Why am I on the internet? I'm at the beach. :curious:

You on holiday? Where? Post photos!

Unfortunately my denmark photos are partly misdeveloped. They show a strange optical distortion around my belly...it looks much fatter than I actually am... important to keep in mind should I ever thoughtlessly decide to show them to you...:D

thanks for cheering me up... had a bad drawing day :)


that doesn't sound like the MR MU that I know...:scream:

yea, it's the bad company that's ruining me...:scream:

my problem with the variants is that the english names have no connection to the lousy german localisation of Painter. But I did not search the pen section yet and will do that, thanks. (I was maybe too focused on the liquid ink variants for creating an inklike effect. It is not that important right now, but I have some DaVinci drawings among my references where I would love to try to get as close as possible to the natural ink look.)

Priceless advice on the hand tension! :thumbsup: You are right. My wrists look too relaxed whereas in the original they are under tension...

Mu
07-14-2006, 08:59 AM
the hand is about the hardest thing I ever had to draw.


If I can manage to fight my way through the thicket I will learn a ton through each of these master drawings that's for sure... I just had hoped I was a lil bit quicker.


No updates on the rafael as of yet, so I'll post some Hogarth scans of stuff I did in the holidays...

http://www.muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/sktch1.jpg



http://www.muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/sktch2.jpg


http://www.muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/sktch3.jpg



http://www.muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/sktch4.jpg

NR43
07-14-2006, 12:24 PM
Hi there,

Thanks for the moral support on my anatomy work. I just had a very quick look at your stuff here (I'm at work) and from what I've seen it looks quite impressive. I'll go through it from first to last post this weekend and I'm sure I will learn from it.

Thanks!
43

pondproductions
07-14-2006, 02:40 PM
hey mu :) your experiments and studies are really great! i will be back to see more soon ;) lol

NR43
07-14-2006, 07:06 PM
Mr Mu,

I want to thank you again for making a post in my thread. Why? Because if you hadn't, I wouldn't have gone through yours as soon as I came home. It took me more than 3hrs I think but it was worth every second!
You've got amazing stuff here, very inspiring.

Now if you'll excuse me. I'll take an hour off, laying in the grass and playing with the kids, so I can study this evening.

Thanks and plz keep posting. I'm eager to follow your progress.
43

Mu
07-15-2006, 12:45 PM
pondproductions - thanks a lot! I will post an update on the rafael mastercopy soon

It took me more than 3hrs I think but it was worth every second!
You've got amazing stuff here, very inspiring.


wow

:eek:

that's actually pretty moving to hear. :) I will reply in this section more often for the next weeks as mastercopies is the only item on my schedule for now, so.... see you...:D

Mu
07-15-2006, 02:07 PM
tried to calm down the outlines and redrew them. Placed some inital placeholders for the main values. And I got a grip on that hand... I guess I must have done it for at least twenty times before I understood what was going on there....

When I cleaned up the main lines I will start and sort of redraw everything til it looks fine.

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/studyforadam_003.jpg

demented
07-15-2006, 03:16 PM
Hey Mu

Muchothanx for the kind words in my thread - I truly appreciate it! Last one looks good, immediately recognisable! My only suggestion would be to make your hatching follow the forms. have the hatching go around it over it in order to describe it better. Line is looking good and promising, and I see a great sense of movement. Also liking the Hogarth studies - great feel for from. Eager to follow your progress! Keep posting!!

ciao

- d.

Mu
07-15-2006, 09:18 PM
redrew the head... shouldn't this whole business of doing mastercopies be a tad quicker...:banghead:...?


http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/studyforadam_004.jpg

Mu
07-15-2006, 09:23 PM
My only suggestion would be to make your hatching follow the forms. have the hatching go around it over it in order to describe it better.

hey demented,

yea, I will. The hatching atm is just a rough placeholder. Thanks for the hint, however...:thumbsup:


btw, you gotta be the forumite with the most elaborate and funniest post titles...:scream: heck, I cant remember thinking of post titles in the first place...:scream:

Rebeccak
07-17-2006, 11:55 PM
Mu,

Lovely touch with the drawing of the head! Your progress is really noticeable...don't worry about speed, do what feels right. If something takes you a bit longer to feel comfortable with, then take the time to adjust things until you've mastered that little bit. Every little step counts, and it's all a building of a mental castle in the sand. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Mu
07-18-2006, 10:35 PM
started to replace the rough crosshatching placeholder with the real one....


http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/studyforadam_005.jpg

Rebeccak
07-19-2006, 06:27 AM
Lovely start to the refinement of this, Murat, I compared the before and after pictures and your latest version is really showing nice progress. :) Keep going with this, I think this is exactly the kind of thing you should be doing ~ the cross hatching, I feel, gives you a much better sense of form than does shading a la airbrush style. Keep up the good work! :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Mu
07-19-2006, 08:17 AM
the cross hatching, I feel, gives you a much better sense of form than does shading a la airbrush style.





yea, I feel the same way, that's why I decided to focus on the drawings among my references first and really stick to the technique that was used to create them.

Thanks for watching...:)

Mu
07-19-2006, 02:50 PM
through with this, could have done some things better, but as that will always be the case I'd rather apply the new knowledge to a new reference...

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/studyforadam_006.jpg

WIP slideshow.... (http://muratkayi.de/cpg/displayimage.php?album=4&pid=36&slideshow=5000)

there's still so many mastercopies to do...

yay!

:)

Mu
07-19-2006, 07:16 PM
next one's a Da Vinci...

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/normal_Leonardo_da_Vinci_Study_of_a_woman-s_head.jpg

first rough sketch to get a grip on what's goin on...

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/daVinci_womanheadstudy.jpg

Mu
07-20-2006, 03:16 PM
still rough sketches, first attempts at finer hatching

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/daVinci_womanheadstudy_002.jpg

Mu
07-20-2006, 11:35 PM
still workin on that da Vinci female head study, but needed to senselessly doodle tonight in order to stay mentally sane...:D

each one between 2 and roughly 8 mins...

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/20060720doodle.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/20060720doodle_003.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/20060720doodle_004.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/20060720doodle_006.jpg

Mu
07-20-2006, 11:37 PM
continued

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/20060720doodle_007.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/20060720doodle_008.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/20060720doodle_009.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/20060720doodle_010.jpg

phew... back to the mastercopy!

Trunks
07-21-2006, 02:48 AM
Hi Mu :D (funny name btw ;) )

I'll write everything in german from here because I am too lazy to think in english now...

[GERMAN MODE ON]
Die Kuh macht Muh hast da bei deiner Namensgebung dran gedacht? Ok erstmal absolut ultimativen Müll als ersten Deutschen Satz geschrieben, vielleicht versteht es ja jmd von den "englischen" jungs/mädels und fragt dann gleich mal nach - haha ich würde mich vor lachen nichtmehr einkriegen. Ok jetzt mal ernsthaft ;)

Ich hab hier den Thread nicht wirklich verfolgt aber es scheint als würdest du eher digital zeichnen als das übliche "rendern", dass all die anderen Leute machen?! Ich persöhnlich favorisiere eigentlich das rendern udn das zeichnen mit dem Bleistift - aber deine arbeiten (an denen du etwas länger als 8min gesessen hast) sehen allesamt sehr gut aus :) Also du hast schonmal meinen Zuspruch davon ruhig mal wieder was zu machen. Die gerenderten Bilder die ich gesehen habe haben mir auch alle gefallen ;)

Sorry jetzt bin ich gerade irgendwie zu müde weiter zu schreiben (hey es it 4 uhr morgens ich müss verrückt sein). Bleib einfach weiter dran, sieht echt gut aus!
[GERMAN MODE OFF]

It is very funny to write the stuff I would normally write in english in german ... wow sounds really sad ^^ Next time I'll keep at english ;)
Keep it up! ^^

Rebeccak
07-21-2006, 06:27 AM
Trunks,

It's even funnier to see the Babelfish translation of what you wrote in German: :D

The cow makes Muh during your naming to thought there? Ok first times absolutely ultimative garbage as the first German sentence written, perhaps understands it jmd about the "English" young girls and inquires then equivalent times - haha I would laugh myself forwards not more in wars. Ok one now times seriously I do not have here the Thread really pursued however it seems as you rather digitally would draw as the usual "rendern" that all the other people make?! I persoehnlich favor actually rendern udn the that draw with the pencil - however yours work to make (at which you sat somewhat longer than 8min) to see all together very well out thus you have already times mine zuspruch of it calmly times again which. The gerenderten pictures which I to have to me also everything saw fallen Sorry I am straight somehow too tired now further to write (hey it it 4 o'clock in the morning I muess moved its). Continue to remain simply to, looks genuinly good!
Hehe...I can get the gist, lol. :D

Mu, I think if you develop the latest master copy in the same way as the first, you will be in good shape. Let's see what develops here. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Mu
07-21-2006, 08:02 AM
es scheint als würdest du eher digital zeichnen als das übliche "rendern", dass all die anderen Leute machen?!



I'll do it in english...:)

atm, I do rather want to focus on drawing digitally along with emphasis on line weight and hatching and all that stuff that it implicates, yes. I plan on going back to painting and renderein digitally again after my mastercopies however and for the occasional doodles which I sort of need to avoid a mental breakdown from staring at masterful lines all the time...:D


I would laugh myself forwards not more in wars

Ok. I suggest the official declaration of a new idiom here. Because when I read what babelfish made of the original German idiom, I, well, laughed myself forwards not more in wars....:scream:

Rebecca, I actually plan on not only developing the latest master copy in the same way as the first, but better than the first, because the first one somehow looks too untidy.

This is partly due to a lack of competence and partly due to the fact that some of the drawing refs are merely studies where Rafael/Leonardo quickly jotted down the most important aspects, sometimes even neglecting presumably wrong outlines and adding new ones etc... So the ref in itself is a bit untidy, too with the decisive difference that all of their lines look fantastic, even the ones which belong to forms they neglected later on, :cry:

Mu
07-21-2006, 03:03 PM
I notice the neck needs to go and be replaced with a proper one...

to be continued...

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/daVinci_womanheadstudy_006.jpg

NR43
07-21-2006, 07:34 PM
that hatching is coming along nicely around the mouth area
keep going

Mu
07-22-2006, 09:44 PM
a quick sketch for the DSG (http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=130), 35 mins with ref of course...

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5630/dsg777mlkfw5.jpg

back to mastercopy...:D

Mu
07-23-2006, 12:35 PM
hatching and hatching...


http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/daVinci_womanheadstudy_007.jpg

Rebeccak
07-23-2006, 04:23 PM
Mu,

Wow, I'm really impressed with these latest pieces ~ saw the MLK piece yesterday and was really struck by how much you are improving. Keep up the good work, I think these master copies will do you a great deal of good!

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
07-24-2006, 01:59 PM
Hi....MR MU.....:)

Just stopping by to see what you've been up to lately, and to see how your DaVinci studies
are going....That face is looking good so far.....when you refine the neck, ...THINK....SWAN
A lot of elegent curve and curves in that neck.....GRACEFUL LINE THERE....:)
Really like that quick ink drawing of the woman walking with the hat on...that one, and the one with the little kid kicking his leg up that you did awhile back....are GREAT....YOU SHOULD KEEP DOING A LOT OF THOSE...They are a great way to warm up, and some times produce great and unexpected results.
Can't wait to see more of your DaVinci study, and studies...should be GREAT, and what you gain in them will always show up in your future works...:thumbsup:

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
07-25-2006, 09:13 PM
Hi Glenn,

yea, Swan..neck... exactly... will do so if I don't go insane before I get there...:scream:

thanks Rebecca, for taking a look at my drawings...:)


atm the eye is killing me. I gave her the wildest stares accidentially and I had to just erase it before I can tackle that seriously. More hatching. More madness.

But I am falling more and more in love with this drawing. Every single line is where it has to be. And the overall result is of utmost grace and beauty...sigh... (EDIT: I am referring to the original here, in case it isn't painfully obvious...:rolleyes: )

when I am finished with this I am gonna post my all time favourite drawing of Da Vinci which depicts such a perfect beauty that I am almost breathless everytime I watch it. I already made a resolution to make that one the very last of this round of mastercopies so that I am somewhat more in training than now...:D

here's the current wip:

overview:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/normal_daVinci_womanheadstudy_012.jpg


higher res.:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/daVinci_womanheadstudy_012.jpg

Intervain
07-25-2006, 10:09 PM
nice work - the hatching feels a bit weird because it;s all too much in one direction I think - somehow looks like her face is covered in hair but maybe that's just me :) I really like that Martin Luther King (?) sketch!!

demented
07-26-2006, 11:30 PM
Sup Mu

thanx for the props in my sb.

Intervain is right about the last one - not because it's in one direction though, but becasue it isn't in one direction. The variation in direction is not enough to suggest a different flow in form, but it is enough to take away the unity in the hatching direction. Also be carefly for too much line variation (in terms of thickness and weight) when hatching - line variation starts to suggest form and light, and hatching (line) is really abstract (an abstract element of composition), not representational. The line is good, and the expression seemhairlis to have been really well captured!

The one lookin like Mister King looks great - love that one the most.
ciao!

- d.

Mu
07-27-2006, 09:06 AM
demented!


thanks for those hints which totally up cleared the spooky impression my hatching made...:thumbsup:

I will however leave it like that and finish it from there, applying what I learned to the next of my mastercopies.

I think the problem was that I wanted to quickly lay down a middle value, similar to what I do when painting digitally (as opposed to drawing digitally) and that does not work with hatching. The hatching around the mouth / nose region does look better imo, because I did do without a quickly laid out middle value...maybe the key word is quickly, here...:D

anyway thanks for the hints man!

:)

Mu
07-27-2006, 09:10 AM
Had a bad day yesterday somehow. Black mood. Black drawings.

listened to Peter Gabriel all the time and could name these "fourteen balck drawings", consequently....only that the fourteenth...erm...is very black...:D


http://www.muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10002/blackpaintings.jpg

Rebeccak
07-27-2006, 07:18 PM
Mu,

Ha, witness the paradox that bad moods make good art :D ~ really great sequence here, reminds me a bit of printmaking, something I think you'd really enjoy. :)

One of my favorite artists has to be Kathe Kollowitz:

http://www.bluffton.edu/%7Esullivanm/forum/kollwitzsurvivors.jpg

http://users.iafrica.com/s/sw/swartart/LoveOf_Images/FrauMitTotemKind.gif

http://faculty.pittstate.edu/%7Eknichols/kollwitzselfportrait.jpg

She might be added to your list of Masters to study. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak