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SpiritDreamer
07-11-2007, 01:10 AM
HEY ...MR MU..:) ......FOND THIS LINK JUST FOR....IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY TROW CAUTIONS TO THE WINDS, AND GET YOUR FINGERS DIRTY..LOL :eek: :scream: .....ENJOY ...:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIJtKxdRQzY .....It has music, so crank it up ...:bounce:

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
07-14-2007, 01:45 PM
Hey Glenn,

thanks for that link... youtube seems to be pretty overstrained right now, so I will watch it when I am back from training tonight... looking forward to it! :thumbsup:

two caricatures from danish guys I noticed on a trip to Esbjerg. Pen and ink and black watercolor (which is just so much better for greyscale watercolor than mixing red and green...:D)

:scream:

from memory...

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/caricatures.JPG

So, this is the last of the scans of the stuff I did while on my vacation. Next thing on the schedule is oil painting...

*gasp*

Trunks
07-14-2007, 02:07 PM
Hi mu ...

I like this style of painting! Looks very nice :) I am looking forward to your oil paintings :)

Mu
07-21-2007, 10:26 PM
Hi there,

just doodles, I was tryingto get a grip on torso twists. From imagination and loose S-curves...

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/torsos0001.jpg


BTW, I am preparing for an exam in September for the second of a row of official sailing/boat/skipper licenses we have in Germany (to make sure people do actually come back when they sail on the sea...:D ) which means that I am pretty much up to my neck in coastal navigation sea charts, tidal tables and current triangles.
My head is smoking. Those exams are hard.

So, dedicated and thorough studies are not to be expected before end of September.

Wish me luck!

:wavey:

NR43
07-22-2007, 12:40 PM
Nice doodles (!)
Good luck Captain Mu :D

SpiritDreamer
07-22-2007, 03:55 PM
HEY ...MR MU ..:wavey:

So when can Jessica and myself expect to see you sailing into Boston Harbor...We are expecting a visit from you soon, and have a nice spot right in front of our cottage where you can anchor your boat for free..:scream:
GOOD LUCK ON THAT CAPTAINS TEST...:thumbsup:

I also think you should do lots more of those black ink on watercolor paper pieces...maybe some coastal scenes while you are sailing around the planet ..:bounce: :)

TAKE CARE, and SAFE SAILING ...CAPTAIN MU
Glenn

wildsheepchase
07-22-2007, 04:51 PM
Hi Mr. Mu,

I enjoyed looking at your sketch thread. Your recent torso sketches were nice...keep at those!
I noticed about a page back that you had pastels and had mentioned that you sorted them by value. May I suggest you take it a step further and also sort them by cool colors and warm colors. I've found that to be a great help while working with pastels.

Good luck with your captain's test!

Mu
07-22-2007, 10:09 PM
Hey Johan,

thanks for the wishes, I just took a look at what you did with shoulder studies in your thread and want to give you some feedback on that great work, but right now I am too tired (another chart exercise the last 90 mins)

Glenn,

man, crossing the Atlantic Ocean is one of those big dreams of most if not all european sport/hobby sailors, I guess.
If I ever will, I will have to travel up from the caribbean (western tradewind would take me there) to Boston, for sure!

wildsheepchase,

warm and cool is such an important topic indeed and the suggestion is great. Take a look at Doctor Bones recent updates in his fantastic thread to see this concept (along with a whole bunch of others...:D ) executed with taste and mastership!
Glad you enjoyed the visit.

Til soon...
:wavey:


BTW, I won't be a captain, just a lil private skipper... to be able to for example make a business of transporting people for fun on any sailing or motor vessel within german sea territory you would need to take the course and exam after the one I am currently taking.
So, long way to go... but thanks so much for the support, folks!

warpy
07-24-2007, 07:40 PM
hijacked!! whats up mu?

Mu
07-26-2007, 11:00 PM
Hi,

more unreffed torso madness, in between rushing to places. Not much time atm. Would love to try a few with refs, but no way before end of august.

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/torsosagain0005.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/torsosagain0004.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/torsosagain0003.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/torsosagain0002.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/torsosagain0001.jpg

Frejasphere
07-27-2007, 01:54 AM
Hi Mu :)

Enjoying as always to pop back here and see what you are up to :)

I really like your cartoon... must have been an interesting trip ;) the bottom guy actually looks Danish.. :D (long-neck seems to have some British or similar ancestory.. but I'm sure he speaks fluent Danish)

Keep up the torso sketches, multitude and freedom of flight with pen in hand - it makes the process both enjoyable and worthwhile! :)

Oh... and meaning to thank you as well for your advice and supportive feedback - (going back a while here...) on my website... I've been learning so much in the last few months and have remodelled the entire site. Always appreciate feedback and wanted to let you know that :)

Take care and cheers :)
a.

batte812
07-28-2007, 10:57 AM
Hi Mu, you have a very interesting sketchbook with a lot of nice exercices and studies. The selfportraits look great and i like the last torso studies. Keep it up.

Mu
07-31-2007, 10:17 AM
Hey Anette,


thanks for your visit - it's always like a multi-coloured sun shining its light into the den of my thread! I really appreciate it. Your new website looks really professional, btw. :wavey:

batte812 - thanks for your comment and feedback. Always means a lot to me when people tell me they liked browsing through my learning process.

___________

Here's an anatomically incorrect doodle, ballpen, of a ceratopsian dinosaur (knees bending the wrong way and all...:argh: ).
Actually, next thing on my schedule is the Gurney mastercopies in oil, but I don't know if I can muster up enough tranquility and focus before my sailing exam. Therefore, I figured I had better just keep drawing something (hence the unreffed torsos), even if it's a unreffed dinosaur.

I am really so looking forward to be able to go for more thorough studies again (with ref, that is).

Here goes...:

http://www.muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/ceratops.jpg

went a bit overboard with the unsharpen mask I am afraid.

Another something I find interesting:

The image of dinosaurs is ever changing and relys on the imaginative power of illustrators. Even the oh-so-real looking 3D models of recent film productions (both documentary and fiction) are based on the illustrator's interpretation of whatever scientific information he/she gathered before designing the animal.

When I first read a lot about dinosaurs as a kid in somewhere around the early 80s, most illustrations still featured rather dull-looking greyish blue or desaturated green animals. With the rather new idea that dinosaurs were not actually braindead, but socially complex and intelligent, their image (in the truest sense of the word) changed, too.
With the recent discovery of the feathered subtypes colors are popping up everywhere.

So, every new generation of palaeontologists grows up with the images of the illustrators of their era and then they go and compare these images with their findings and feed back on the next generation of illustrators. Quite a fascinating interaction, isn't it?

Here's a direct comparison of early and recent interpretation of Iguanodon, for example:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c0/Changing-image-of-Iguanodon.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Goodrich_Iguanodon.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cc/Iguanadon_wwd.jpg

NR43
07-31-2007, 10:55 AM
Yes it's very interesting.

I think over the years, as scientists learned more, the illustrator must learn along, no? :)

Nice torso sketches btw

Mu
07-31-2007, 11:16 AM
Hi Johan,


yes, but what fascinates me is that the scientists grow up as kids with the images of illustrators in their minds so the learning is kind of mutual.

Frejasphere
08-02-2007, 01:39 AM
Hey Mu :)

That is such an interesting topic; living on a remote (large island) with a supposed "short" history; the early illustrations of both indigenous Australians and the fascinating animals (kangaroos and the like) - are quite out of this world to look at :D, learning had to happen before any real accuracy would be evident in drawings and "fact" descriptions of what those people discovered here...

Thanks for your comments too :) very kind:wavey:

cheers and take care
a. :)

Trunks
08-02-2007, 06:22 PM
Hi Mr.Mu,
I really never noticed something like that ... but you are right ... this is a very interresting topic. How every gerneation manipulates the image of the next generation of recent topics ... know as you said it this is not only true for dinosaurs. You can also see such a behaviour in other parts of our life.

Great you noticed that ! I really have to think about this now for one or two days ... this might be a good topic for a new image ;)

Mu
08-09-2007, 11:07 PM
Hi,

I was getting a bit of withdrawal signs of drawing all that stuff without ref, so...:D


Bix, one of the characters of Dinotopia (remember my next main schedule item is doing James Gurney mastercopies and learning all I need to know in order to do them)

As I still won't find the time to properly delve into oil painting I did this value study in watercolor. I just realize I might be in trouble if I scan the refs of my Dinotopia studies in and publish it here in my thread...?! Does anyone know how these things are handled?

Anyway, here goes Bix, a female Protoceratops and Dinotopian interpretor. She is quite a diplomat and does not shrink away from negotiating a hungry pack of tyrannosaurs if need be, even though she is only a meter in shoulder height.

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/bix0001.jpg

I tried to follow James Gurney's workflow a bit: drawing with pencil (later charcoal) which is being colored. Lines still show. Gives the whole thing flow. Do check out his site and gallery, btw: www.dinotopia.com

CyborgJA
08-10-2007, 01:04 PM
Interesting sketches. I love how you describe women's torso and breast. They are fluid and usually well composed.

Regarding Bix, I love the "intense" emotion that the light head on black background transmits but I think you are able to better render the idea of volumes using the grayscale. The texture of the paper is incredible to see :drool:

Can't wait for another update ! :thumbsup:

Mu
08-10-2007, 02:19 PM
Hi Serena,

wow thanks for your comments. I am always enjoying any kind of feedback, but from an artist I admire anything is sort of extra-appreciated.

As concerns the value range: Yes, you're right. I was thinking that most of the hard edges could use a soft transition below to kind of anchor them into the figure... like I did on the far hind leg and the far foreleg. The hard edges on the head and on the torso, however, lack this grounding of soft transitions.

In short: your observation is spot on...:D

Trunks
08-10-2007, 10:01 PM
Hi Mr.Mu,
very nice job on this last image! I like how you shaded this dinosaur! Are you going to make some more ? Maybe in color also? Could become a nice little collection ;)
Keep at it!
Thomas

warpy
08-11-2007, 09:37 AM
hey mu,

we both go all over the place when it comes to art. i dont want to give silly advice here. but i want to discuss something with you. so when you get a chance msg me.

ForzaInter
08-11-2007, 11:12 AM
Hi Mu!:)

Lots of nice stuff here:thumbsup: I especially like the animation you did. Have you studied animation before? The result is great! I also distinguished some body studies you made several posts ago, where you have reference lines along the hips, vertically to the upper body etc.

Keep things coming!:)

Mu
08-11-2007, 11:22 AM
Hey Trunks,
yes indeed! More Dinos! Dinotopia! Check it out, buddy...


Ori,
thanks for popping in - as concerns MSN or ICQ... that is short in supply atm, as it will be til 29th of September when I take my sailing exam, but if you don't catch me in my short online times drop me a pm!

ForzaInter,
thanks very much. Well, I never really animated anything before those exercises. But I used to fill many notepad blocks with flip-book animations of stick figures as a kid. I was getting the impression that I need more experience in catching a gesture quick and reliably, before I follow this dream of mine any further. Thanks for your support, though, really appreciated! :)
The reference lines, hmm... I think those are combinations of very (and I mean very very) rough envelopes which I learned about in Tony Ryder's book, Loomis framework and (really as important as the first two) the cube and egg framework by Doctor Bone - do check his thread out!

Thanks for your continued support everyone! Really means a lot to me...:wavey:

CyborgJA
08-12-2007, 12:24 PM
Hi Murat!

Oh well I'm a common cgtalker and nothing more, but thank you for your words, you are very gentle.

Well, just a suggestion so take it as you want... why don't yu use GREY pencils instead of black - graphite ones?
Maybe it can help you!

Good work !

Mu
08-12-2007, 12:54 PM
Hi Serena,

for the preparatory drawings I always use grey pencils.
I start using (black) charcoal for the final contour lines, but I am not sure I will keep this workflow up like this, because it does not fit in 100% with the original workflow of Gurnsey.

For the originals I want to copy he used graphite only, which are being fixated when he's done, so I will probably do so, too... thanks for your ideas! :thumbsup:

Mu
08-15-2007, 12:13 PM
Hi,

more hapless sketches/gestures, mostly from imagination. Sorry for the dump, but this is just me trying to keep a rhythm so I am not completely out of it when I pick up the oil brushes later on...


http://www.muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/sktch3~0.jpg


http://www.muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/sktch2~0.jpg


http://www.muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/sktch1~0.jpg

CyborgJA
08-15-2007, 12:26 PM
Oh well, I hope you'll find as soon as possible the technique that better fits your needs!

For the sketches, I love the man in the second sheet :applause:

Frejasphere
08-16-2007, 04:01 PM
Hi Mu :)

Just popping in to say hi and see what you're up to...
I like Bix.. a dinosaur displaying definite emotions :) Nice washes you've built up!

Look forward to see those oil brushes come out

take care and cheers
a. :)

Trunks
08-16-2007, 08:13 PM
Hi Mr.Mu!

You are right ... just keep at it ... don't stop. Try to draw everyday some quick sketches like for 10minutes or so ... just sketch :D


Thomas

warpy
08-17-2007, 09:03 AM
mu what you wanted is in my thread, last 2 posts.

Mu
08-17-2007, 09:22 AM
I'm faster than you....:D



:scream:

rdsarna
08-17-2007, 09:38 AM
Hey Mu!
I love those gestures!! :thumbsup: I love the confidence in your drawings.......
And BIX is also gr8!!

Keep up the gr8 work....
Ratul

pushav
08-18-2007, 07:58 AM
Nice figure studies. Keep that up.

NR43
08-18-2007, 08:33 AM
Hey Mu
when you're drawing gestures from imagination, where do you start? Do you start with the head, or the center body line maybe? Or is the order not important?

Just curious about your thinking process during constructive drawing :)

Mu
08-26-2007, 11:56 AM
rdsarna, pushav, thanks so much for your visit and encouragement! :)

Johan,

eh, sorry mate I must have somehow overlooked your post, just saw it today...

Actually, it's a kind of chaotic process. I try and combine what I distilled so far for me of mainly three frameworks:

- Doc Bones egg and cube exercise
- Ryder's envelope
- Rebecca's opposing curves thread

and a few others... whatever fits.

But as you specifically wanted to know about the start of the gesture... well... I start with the gesture. Sorry, I am not being smartmouth or something.
If you leave out all the anatomy and everything that makes up the figure, there's something that is left which is rather abstract. Like a flow of energy. Lines of action. The general idea. The gesture.
This I do first.
Then I attach all the rest to this gesture idea. Sometimes I start with the chest, most often with the hip, but once I nailed the abstract gesture flow down it's all the same to me.

I would love to find the time (soon, yea!) to apply this method to some of the sketchathon ref.

Here's a youtube movie of a Painter script I did for you.
Just click the image for the movie. Hope it helps.

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/gestures.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfNLfUs5MeY)

tizianoadmirer
08-26-2007, 12:37 PM
Thanks a lot for this video Mu !

Trunks
08-26-2007, 03:04 PM
Hey Mu,
I really like how you made this quick gestures with this few lines ... very well done! MORE! :D

Thomas

NR43
08-26-2007, 07:08 PM
Dear Mu

Thanks for taking the time to show your workflow this elaborately.
It's really helpful in that way that I now know I'm on the right track :)

I agree that getting the flow of the action down first is the most important part.
That's exactly what Vilppu says btw. (in case you haven't seen that gesture DVD)

Thanks again!

SpiritDreamer
08-28-2007, 10:52 AM
HEY ..MR MU ...:wavey: :)

Would love to see you doing your sketches of figures on small stretched canvases...two colors only ...yellow and purple..mixed on the canvas, and on the palette also...no thinner, or linseed oil added...just oil pigment straight from the tube...Make up about ten of them ahead of time, by putting on with a BIG brush, a thin coat of gold color made from mixing the yellow and purple, smear it around a little with a rag, rubbing it into the canvas, creating an atmospheric look. Let these dry, and then when you feel like sketching, you will be all set to go..:) I think you would do and have some GREAT little canvases in the end, if you tried this method...:)
By the way,....THANK YOU VERY MUCH, FOR THAT POEM...:arteest:
TAKE CARE MY FRIEND..:) :thumbsup:
Glenn

Jho
08-31-2007, 01:31 PM
Hi Mu!
Thank you so much for your post in my sketchbook. Really made me feel good :D

You have an awesome feel of movement in your last sketches. I once saw an intrview of Jim Lee, he was talking about pretty much the same thing you talked about in your last post. He first sketches the movement, and only then the character based on in.
I have tried to bring it to my work too, but I think I need to do some more live drawing in order to really get it to my head :)

In other words, great work. Make more :D

Mu
09-03-2007, 08:56 PM
Jho,
great to know I am on the right track as concerns the priorities when doing gestures...:)

Glenn,
your idea is spot on and I will certainly try something like this when the oily times are coming!
:scream:

Johan,
glad that you actually got something out of my script. I wasn't actually sure if it was helpful.

Thomas,
ever active, ever encouraging...:)

tiziano,
hey there... you're welcome

_____________________
be strong, friends, only one more month of hapless gesture doodles...:D


http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/test.jpg

Trunks
09-08-2007, 11:07 AM
Hi Mu,
are this figures done from imagination? Do you use any reference ? I like the four in the left upper corner. The others are not correct everywhere... but nice way of sketching with this few lines :)

Why one month of helpless gesture studies? What are you doing after the month? Maybe you wrote it somewhere but I don't know where ^^

Thomas

CyborgJA
09-12-2007, 08:53 AM
OHHH I love the torso's twist that the bottom-left corner's image gots. But for the specific case, remember to show also the foreside of it (always think to ribcage and female sinus)

Goooood work ! :thumbsup:

Gisaiagami
09-24-2007, 12:30 PM
ohhhhhhhhhhh progress in your sketch amazing
Love the last study
It is my great difficulty and them they are inspired, posted in NR43 the question:
And repeat for you :D You sum the direct skeleton with pipes? It is an interesting form that I would like to learn. I do not give myself well with geometrias. Taste of the method of vilppu

Mu
09-29-2007, 01:59 PM
hey everybody!

Today I passed my theoretical coastal skipper exam - as I passed the practical exam two years earlier I am now officially holder of the german coastal skipper license!

*fanfare*
*confetti*

Weeks of insane practising are behind me. My whole social environment is praising this day as I ran the risk of losing it altogether, mumbling geographical positions, geodatical standards or tidal tables to myself, slowly but steadily on my way over the edge.

Now, this is all history, the license is in my wallet where it leads any member of a charter service to believe that I know what I am doing, should I ask for a sailing yacht.
:D
I will have to do a lot of learning still before I'm gonna charter a boat on my own authority, but from today onwards I am allowed to and that was the plan!

So, cheer my fellow forumites, because from now on it's not altogether improbable that I might post some decent paintings/studies/drawings again...:scream:

I will try oil colours in the next weeks, so take off your shoes and put on a slop when you come in here... it's going to be smeary and dirty and wonderful.

Now, excuse me, while I kiss the sky.

:buttrock::deal::arteest::beer::bounce:



http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/CIMG1699_lofi.JPG

warpy
09-29-2007, 02:04 PM
happy birthday mu, how does it feel to reborn as a certified fish ?
well now you can relax for a week and do that thing that i told you to do *wink*

cheers!

SpiritDreamer
09-29-2007, 02:08 PM
AYE AYE CAPTAIN MU......:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :applause: :applause:

JUST IN TIME FOR THOSE WINTER STORMS...NOW YOU DO KNOW HOW TO SWIM...RIGHT....:scream:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

Rebeccak
09-29-2007, 03:48 PM
Awwwwww, big congrats!!! :bounce:

NR43
09-29-2007, 05:16 PM
Ahoi skipper!
Nothing can stop you now, not even a huge and hungry dark moaning see creature 10 feet below your boat :)

Congratulations... the world is yours now!

Frejasphere
10-03-2007, 12:07 AM
Awesome news Captain Mu! :thumbsup:
Salt seasoned winds, rolling waves, full sails.... AHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Come south and dolphins will join your journey...
Go north and seals will do the same....
Cruise up and down rivers and there will be flags hoisted along the banks!!!

Big congrats! :) :) :)

lilirious
10-04-2007, 12:32 PM
Great stuff Captain! :)

congratulations!!! :D too bad for german weather tho... :P (if it's anything like dutch weather.. haha :| ;) )

Mu
10-16-2007, 11:04 PM
Ahoy everybody and thanks so much folks for all your congratz!

Now, as announced, back to drawing, painting etc.

:arteest:

I did my first oil painting today (from reference, hello Rebecca).

I realized I will be in trouble when it comes to posting that stuff, because I could scan my dried watercolor thingies, but oil - even the watersoluble stuff - takes for ever to dry.

So, crappy cell phone shots:

my setup, I placed a bin of water near my pallette so I could thin the colours (greyscale palette mixed of ivory black and titanium white) if needed which I only did for the very first layers or rather washes:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/nudeOil2.jpg

That is not a weird filter over the image, btw... it's how crappy my cell phone cam ist...:banghead:

Here are two shots of what I got, one with a flashlight, the other with available light and both suck. The thing is, I could do pretty decent shots with my analogue SLR and off camera light, but that would take forever to post (waiting for development and all), so I will have to do without.

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/nudeOil.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/DSC00100_lofi.JPG


Here's what I had in mind:

As the basic values look ok to me tonight I would tomorrow try and lay a few thick impasto style accents on the main contrast points with a palette knife so the texture and the contrast coincide(using darker and lighter values there... I did not use pure white nor pure black anywhere).

CyborgJA
10-17-2007, 08:20 AM
Great to see you back on colors dear captain ! :thumbsup:
From what I see and from what I think, this image has got 2 points you can work better on :

1. the belly
2. the right shoulder/arm shading.

The belly is the strongest point. If you look at your reference you'll see that the light hits her belly at its maximum width : the circumference that cuts the navel. After this point, the belly of a woman can be simplifized as an inversed cone. Now look at your picture : can you see that her belly seems to be "pushed" on our left at the navel's level? This, in my opinion, erases a little the perception of shapes.

The right shoulder is too rough in shading. The "white" area behind her face should be the upper surface of her shoulder and not an empty space. For this reason I suggest you to diffuse a little bit the colors.


Only my 2 cents :love:

Mu
10-17-2007, 08:40 AM
Hi Serena,


thanks for the in-depth critique! I will see to it.
I think I messed up my envelope on the shoulder... when I read what you said I could clearly see what you mean, but I also think I might not have enough space left to correct it. I will see.

What I find amazing with oil colours is how much time you have to go back to certain parts and correct what you did there. With watercolor, often enough it was like get-it-right-the-first-time-or-mess-the-whole-thing-up.

warpy
10-17-2007, 09:06 AM
hey mu,

while you look at this proportion suggestion, get online too i want to show you something.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2190/1596310083_e1488cdd61.jpg

Mu
10-17-2007, 11:49 AM
hey man,


thanks for takin the time for a paintover.
(other stuff to do this afternoon, you know... outdoors... in real life ...*gasp :surprised: maybe this evening? :wavey: )

Mu
10-17-2007, 06:52 PM
worked on it based on Serena's great crit. Ori's I couldn't incorporate as the canvas would have to be extended, argh! I gotta mind my envelope...:banghead:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/nudeOil_20071017.jpg


Okay. This was basically an attempt at getting acquainted a bit with oil colours at all.

The schedule is as follows:

- do 2 more studies from ref, maybe another self portrait with mirror, learn usage of pallette knife and thinners as well as linseed oil

- apply this to a first rather simple Gurney copy.

- Do a complex Gurney copy.

- Enjoy myself...:D

cya

Rebeccak
10-17-2007, 10:12 PM
Great to see you doing more traditional! :)

It could be the flash, but the main thing I might recommend is keeping the lights more subtle and toward the mid gray range vs. in the high key light range. We always tend to use more white than is necessary and it takes restraint to not go too light too fast. Think of a painting like a photograph, in that too many lights results in a blown out image. When you go to color oil painting, for example, I'd recommend leaving white out of the equation entirely in for example a limited palette painting, and only using yellow ochre instead of white for the lights.

Hope that helps. :)

Mu
10-17-2007, 10:35 PM
Hi my favourite,

(btw, got the Alison Krauss Live Double CD for birthday and been listening to it so often that the laser might have dug a few new pits into the surface...!)

It's funny - just a few seconds before you posted I was wondering why the heck I was getting no clear impression of white or very light values in this painting.
And when you repeated this suggestion which I believed to had memorized by heart for all the digital stuff I did, I realized I had neglected that for this oil painting: the values are too high generally, leaving me with no real counterpart for the light parts to make them pop at all.

I think I got lost in trying to replicate the high values surrounding the figure in the photo reference.
Maybe I should just deviate from the ref in this regard. And yes, definitely helpful...:)

One thing I wondered, do you make it a rule to either go from dark to light or vice versa when doing alla prima?
For future studies I also wanted to learn doing grisaille underpaintings and glazing on top of them and with those, the path is pretty much laid out: very light underpainting, and gradually darken the thing down with successive layers.

But in alla prima: everything is allowed? The suggestion to keep from the light values suggests starting with darks... With the above I basically jumped to and fro, because I had to correct so often.

:surprised:

I feel so very much like in the beginning of my thread. So many questions...

Ah, something new to learn... isn't it wonderful...?

:scream:

Rebeccak
10-17-2007, 10:45 PM
Hehe, with all painting, be it traditional or digital, the rule is: work dark to light.

I will repeat this for special emphasis: :D

Work dark to light! Do eet! ^_^

Also as a suggestion that will save you loads of heartache - before starting a painting, use a 2 or 3" foam brush (http://www.mossfoam.com/images/foambrushes.jpg) to lightly coat your canvas with several washes of either a dark acrylic color (such as burnt umber, burnt sienna, or black), letting each acrylic layer dry before coating with the next. Of course acrylics are used with water, not turp as are oils - you can try mixing them, but you will get interesting results. ;)

The goal of toning your canvas (http://www.kgmiracle.com/Saturday%20Morning%201st%20step_small.jpg) is to kill the white glaring surface that is the canvas straight out of its package. I will repeat this for special emphasis:

Kill the white surface! ^_^

This will save you hours of work, because you have immediately established a midtone value from which to work up and down in terms of value.

Block in your drawing with a charcoal pencil (6B or such) and then start to block in thin layers of the dark shadow areas. Work fat on lean, eg, don't put a ton of paint on the surface initially, thin it down with turp to a moderate degree so that the paint doesn't gunk up on the surface of the canvas.

Mix with a palette knife a value range of 5 values, from dark to light. Use those grays just like you would with a digital painting. Use white sparingly! Restrict yourself from using white at all (except for mixing your grays, of course) in the painting until the very end.

Oh and I've discovered, 10 years delinquently, Lisa Gerrard. This just completely kills me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1WaQmxrXdw

*Hugs*

Here is an example of a toned bkgrd and working dark to light by some unknown Italian guy, Leonardo:

http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Images/art-friends/leonardo-da-vinci-art.jpg

http://www.schule.bremen.de/schulen/wallis/zkt/hp_03/images/leonardo02.jpg

If you work dark to light, this (http://img5.allocine.fr/acmedia/medias/nmedia/18/36/27/14/18467382.jpg) is how you will feel.

Mu
10-18-2007, 09:14 AM
Work dark to light! Do eet! ^_^

Aye!



Also as a suggestion that will save you loads of heartache - before starting a painting, use a 2 or 3" foam brush (http://www.mossfoam.com/images/foambrushes.jpg) to lightly coat your canvas with several washes of either a dark acrylic color (such as burnt umber, burnt sienna, or black), letting each acrylic layer dry before coating with the next. Of course acrylics are used with water, not turp as are oils - you can try mixing them, but you will get interesting results.


As I am using watersoluble oils I think I can easily apply a bit of water to thin a grey tone down to a desirable amount and coat the canvas with that, which would also be in line with the fat over lean thingy.


Kill the white surface! ^_^

*stab*
done.



Oh and I've discovered, 10 years delinquently, Lisa Gerrard. This just completely kills me!


Hmm, I can't listen to it atm... at work... but I remember Dead Can Dance and back then I was all Pantera, Soundgarden, with an occasional Santana, so as long as the music wasn't at least 150db or had a good amount of hippie lovin' in it I wouldn't listen to it... so seeing I wouldn't exactly have cared for Alison Krauss back then, too, I will give this a try...:D


If you work dark to light, this (http://img5.allocine.fr/acmedia/medias/nmedia/18/36/27/14/18467382.jpg) is how you will feel.

ROFLMAO! thanks for making me laugh first thing in the morning!

BTW, have you ever tried grisaille underpainting and glazing on top?
Because it would have to be the other way round once you start glazing, but the underpainting I would create like you just described...?

So, it's:
UNDERPAINTING
dark to light (working lighter than normal) alla prima.
GLAZING
Darkening things down gradually in washes.

I was actually struck by how exactly this method fits in with the greycale to colour method tutorial by Stahlberg. I am going to try this in a few weeks.

Thanks so much for all the time you are taking still to get me and all the others on track.
If I lived in LA I'd wash dishes and play music in the streets to have the extra money to take your classes.

*sigh

Mu
10-21-2007, 02:19 PM
I am a bit frustrated right now with the quality of the digital images. I can't scan them (obviously) and the digital cams we have suck and my analogue SLR just does not make sense when I am trying to get help quickly.

So, sorry...

So, I primed all cardboards I intend to use in the next days with a dark middle grey. Then I set up a scale of five tones ranging from total black to total white.
I chose a low-key b/w nude female photo and laid down the shadows first (putting down a preparatory drawing was rather hard as I couldn't erase anything on the oily surface... and I wasn't patient enough for letting it dry completely).
Then I gradually increased the lights.

(sorry for the specks on her breast... I didn't see them til today. I am painting in the evenings right now and need more light obviously, LOL... I will cover them before I do the next one)



http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/nudeOil_new2.jpg


Comparison to previous attempt
http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/nudeOil_new.jpg


Next thing is going to be a self portrait from mirror.

SpiritDreamer
10-21-2007, 02:48 PM
Hey ...MR MU ...:)

You might try doing your sketching with a brush and oils..erase with thinner, or just blend it out and away...:)
I was just wondering if you ever got that book that I mentioned to you earlier, on how to paint like the masters...That guy shows from start to finish, step by step, how to get what your after, in alot of different ways/techniques and styles that the masters developed over time..:)
You might try placing your canvas in front of a non reflective piece of black cloth, and shine a couple of spotlighs from each side, to eleminate the glare on your photos...just a thought.

ANYWAY...KEEP GOING...AND KEEP POSTING...:thumbsup:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
10-21-2007, 02:58 PM
I was just wondering if you ever got that book that I mentioned to you earlier, on how to paint like the masters...

I basically ordered it the day you first mentioned it...:scream:

And yes, it's aweseome! I also realize that he does his sketching with a brush... I might try that for the next one.

Thanks for the visit, Glenn!
:wavey:

CyborgJA
10-21-2007, 04:55 PM
Well, from what I see I think you should enhance the nose's saddle, shifting a little to the left the shadows of the eye-socket.
A tiny thing about her sinus : I had a lot of troubles with sinus in the past times (and I'm a woman eh :D) till I understood that they are like ballons filled with water
http://www.tiropratico.com/video/video/palloncino.jpg

Now look at your description and imagine to have a baloon instead of the sinus, and this baloon is attached to her torax muscles (imagine to bring the baloon from the top and put it on a flat surface that simulates torax).

If you do this experiment you'll notice that the baloon will assume the shape of an "enlonged drop", in other word, something composed by a concave and a convex curve.


Only my 2 cents :love:

Rebeccak
10-21-2007, 06:51 PM
Really liking your second attempt - the whites are still popping but that could be the camera also. I think the challenging part actually is choosing good photo reference - oftentimes these kinds of fashion / beauty shots aren't great for painting reference because they are intentionally dramatically lit. I would suggest trying to find less contrasty photo reference that may be a little less glamorous - another option is to attempt a traditional master copy and emulate the values only. Great to see your hard work! :)

Mu
10-22-2007, 09:13 AM
Serena, la mia bellezza dal sud,

thanks for your help on anatomy. I had my troubles with this breast shape (and I am desparately hoping that you are referring to the breast as "Sinus" does not show up in my dictionary...:D ), but in the ref it looked kinda weird, too.
To be honest, while I painted this and looked at the ref I got the feeling that this is a balloon filled with silicon (:D ) which gave it a strangely relentless shape when being pulled up by the lifted arm - I think I have to go and look for better ref, like Rebecca pointed out.


Hi Rebecca,

whew, I am feeling a bit giddy (like getting drunk from just a bit of wine after a long period of soberness) from your repeated presence in this thread, a bit like the old times...:D

:scream:

I admit I chose this for the stark contrast mainly, because it was something I wanted to be able to put into a painting - while I think I succeeded it doesn't actually make for a nice painting.

Next thing will be a self portrait as I want to do something from observation again.

thanks for your continued support, everyone.

:wavey:

Mu
10-24-2007, 08:17 PM
Started on a self portrait (a bit larger format) on cardboard.

I primed it with a medium grey. Then I sketched in/blocked in the rough shapes with a darker grey + water as medium.
So, the light parts are leftovers from the primed cardboard.

Next thing: finding dark form shadows like corners of eye and mouth, nostrils as well as terminators. Refining contour.

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/selfOil1.jpg

anandpg
10-25-2007, 08:02 AM
Hey Mu!!... Great start!... eager to watch your progress on this!:bounce:... I wanna paint too...:cry:

CyborgJA
10-25-2007, 09:32 AM
OHH yeah, I love to see you working on traditional mediums ! :bounce:

Well, I don't want to be ill-mannered but yes, sinus means a single boob :blush:

About the last one, I know that you'll feel me like a fish-bone in your throat but from what I can see you are already using strong blacks and strong whites.
I quote here a sentence from Rebecca's post :


It could be the flash, but the main thing I might recommend is keeping the lights more subtle and toward the mid gray range vs. in the high key light range. We always tend to use more white than is necessary and it takes restraint to not go too light too fast.


Or, in "digital words", try to tune down the contrast variable, in this way you'll be able to describe better the whole surface (even if, you know that I adore this kind of light that sounds so Caravaggio-like :drool: )


My 2 cents,
S.

Mu
10-25-2007, 09:49 AM
la mia bellezza dal sud (heck I really love the sound of this...:D ),

I know that you'll feel me like a fish-bone in your throat

Oh no, by now I consider you a cornerstone of my study endeavours and I am grateful for your keen eye!

As concerns the contrast: I think it's mainly due to the lighting (again...:cry: ) - for comparison check out the wood of the easel on the left side! It's almost completely blown out and so are the tones on the painting.

I am thinking about a way on how to make the smaller cardboards scannable (although this is only good for considering in retrospect), but I am clueless on how to improve on the light quality for the big canvases and cardboards.

But, all in all, I will keep an eye on my contrasts anyway - it's good you mentioned it.

Anand - thanks for your visit... what's stopping you? :arteest: :D

Mu
10-25-2007, 03:11 PM
Today, in the tram, I saw a guy who was trying real hard to come off as dangerous and my immediate response was to picture him wearing a teddybear costume...

That always cheers me up.

So, here's a little cartoon for you...:D


"Intimidated by your job interviewer? Don't be! Here's what to imagine...."


http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/cartoon.jpg
Just a bit of nonsense before I post the next update...*sigh*

CgIcecube
10-25-2007, 04:41 PM
Hahahahaha those tough guys in teddy bear costume is the best thing i have imagined in past few months:scream:
Itz great to see your work:thumbsup:as i am struggling with oils on canvas i got some awesome traditional painting tips here:bounce:

SpiritDreamer
10-28-2007, 08:57 PM
HEY...MR MU...:)

You must be in a grey blue mood...been spending too much time in that winter ocean on your boat I think..:scream:
How about some warm golds and coppers in that selfportrait..:) DaVinci style...Think of tempature of the colors, and the moods that they can create while you paint..:)
REALLY like your teddy bear approach to the tough guy..Just make sure he doesn't see it... LOL..:scream: ..I use a simaler approach when viewing politicians...I just picture them with no cloths on..most of them look like they have never worked an honest day in there lives, or have ever created blisters on their own hands from working, when viewed/imagined without their cloths on..LOL..:twisted: :)
Anyway...Looking forward to seeing the progress on that selfportrait..MR MU..:thumbsup:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

ForzaInter
10-29-2007, 05:11 PM
Hi Mu,

Nice seeing your experimentations, and your progression until now!

Keep up! :)

Mu
10-29-2007, 10:27 PM
Hi folks,

here's a new wipshot of my self portrait.

There's no pure black or white in there. I am getting a mirror from time to time to flip it horizontally and it's giving me headaches that there's something wrong between mouth and nose... *sigh* I am going to fix this in the next session.
I scraped off excess colour from the eye as it was also just plain wrong and needs to be redone...

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_selfOil3.jpg

CGIcecube -
nice you got a laugh from it...:D

Glenn,
I picture politicians gone... much more efficient when it comes to making me feel good...:scream:
And, no... no colours yet. I might try and glaze colours (tinting and varying colour, too) over the first oil thingy as it came out too light anyway which is a perfect base for a bit of glazing. Would be a nice first try for some of the tecniques described by Sheppard...:thumbsup:

ForzaInter - thanks for your visit, mate.

CyborgJA
10-30-2007, 07:58 AM
Man, from what I can see you are pushing up the end of your nose (like a french one :D ) and you are having few troubles cause of a missing shadow.If I've understood your settings, this pic gots a main strong light at our right and a soft secondary one at our left, isn't it?

Ok, in this case look the left cheek : hitten by light, then shadow, then comes the lightened nose. In theory you have got a simmetric but softnede light on right too so let's have a look at right cheek : I can see the light area and then...where's the shadow?

Hope it helps ! :thumbsup:

SpiritDreamer
10-30-2007, 12:15 PM
Hi...MR MU...:)

It might help add roundnes and depth, if you do not bring the light all the way to the edge of the form..the right side of the face and neck as i'm seeing it...bringing the light all the way to the edge, tends to flatten out that edge...you might be going to tint that edge later, to get the roundness with values,...if so , disregard what I just said...:)
Also, start thinking about the background values where they meet the edges of your portrait...you don't want to think of the background as an after thought..work it as you work the portrait, you want to achive a oneness of forground/portrait, and background in the end result..:)
Get the shoulder in there now also...so you can work on the painting as a whole form..which will enable you to achive that ONENESS that is so important to a successful outcome.:) ...Just like when you write a poem...keep the whole thought in mind, so it doesn't get fragmented..:) UNITY
TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
10-30-2007, 01:34 PM
Hi to the two of you...

I am so aware that this is a proportion shitstorm... I kind of lost it while wokring on the values... I was looking at it yesterday (before I posted it) and was thinking that the lower and the upper part don't go together.

Lots of fixing to do.

Serena,

I'll fix the nose. My nose is not the prettiest part about my face in general...:D but it really doesn't look as silly as that...:scream:

The shadow on the right cheek: Hmm, I am not sure I see what you mean, here. The lit side rapidly goes into a form shadow cast by the cheek itself. I will take a closer look in the next sitting.

Glenn,

thanks very much for the reminder. I was caught up indeed in the details of why the heck it all looked so skewed. I will see to the bg and shoulder.

:wavey:

Rebeccak
10-31-2007, 11:12 PM
Looking good, Mu! I think the thing I might most recommend for your next portrait is fitting the entire head, and not only the face, on the canvas. This gives you many more opportunities for creating a sense of volume and depth - try thinking about what would make a good sculpture, and not an interesting photograph. Also, are you working from life? I highly recommend trying to work from life, vs. working from photos, which are already flattened out. Hope that helps!

Mu
10-31-2007, 11:38 PM
Hi Rebecca,

to be quite honest... I think the crop kinda happened while I panicked (omg, it's happening! Oil colour self portrait. Gotta get this right. Ooops my ear doesn't fit in?!)
I was sweating as sketching a block in/envelope was kind of hard with a brush (the primed cardboard repelled my pencil).

But this is from life (mirror) and for exactly the reason you gave. I feel that in my attempts to become aware of the shape horizons (the way Ryder described it) I learn so much more even when I fail than in a successful photo reffed painting.

At the moment I caught a light cold and the distorted portrait is watching me as I type. I will shapeshift the masses soon...:D

thanks for your visit Villpu-woman... argh, this is so sure to propell you on a whole new level of awesomeness... can't wait to see it.

Rebeccak
11-01-2007, 01:18 AM
Hehe, gotcha! :) Impressed that you are attempting oils solo. I think you're doing a great job and look forward to seeing more of these.

Yeah, poor Vilppu, having to shake me off his leg before his lecture, it's sort of embarrassing :D

Mu
11-01-2007, 11:51 AM
ROFL!

Yea, it's a never ending chain of students and teachers clinging to each other's legs...:scream:

Frejasphere
11-01-2007, 01:49 PM
Hey there Mu :)

I've had quite a few smiles and laughs (not at your work!) going through this last section of your thread! great to see you working in oils!
I can't help but throw 2 Dead can Dance tracks into the mix... (formed this end of the world, maybe ok to? ;) ) Black Sun - Brendan Perry sings on this one, and Saldek - Lisa Gerrard, both lovely :) not Soundgarden or 150db (unless you crank it up) but rythmic enough to get those brushes bouncing :)

I like the way you are working with values - in grey scale :thumbsup:
Wondering if the nose-trouble is coming from constantly having to move your head slightly up and down (or side to side, or whichever way you need to move to look in mirror and then at canvas..) the angle at the bridge of the nose seems to be, along with the left nostril (lower than right) - what is pushing the nose slightly askew.

One good thing (apart from feeling like king of the world.. ;)) about painting dark to light.. is that you can really exaggerate your shaded areas, defining the darkest and close to darkest letting these areas sculpt shadows - before lightening where needed with lighter layers going over; this also helps create that depth and play of light..

hmmm bit of a waffle really, I am looking forward to seeing next stage of your self portrait though :)

take care and cheers!
a. :)

Mu
11-02-2007, 04:35 PM
Hey Annette,

I think I was a bit careless when moving my head around indeed. I will see to it that I get this all corrected tonight.

as concerns music I am mostly into stuff that is rather old right now... (it can be cranked up to 150db, too...:D ) music for viola da gamba and medieval music as for example played by Oni Wytars or the Dufay Collective.

On a related note:


Rejoisse! Yow noble forumittes, this connexioun ich yeve thee graunted me pleasure and mirinesse biyonde compair:


Geoffrey Chaucer hath a blog! (http://houseoffame.blogspot.com/2006/08/serpentes-on-shippe-spoylerez.html)

Thou may'st LOL to thyn herte's dainte.

Mu
11-03-2007, 01:12 AM
making amends on the bg like Glenn suggested, puttin middle values back in the nose area and redesigning one eye. I look so miserable because it's turning out to be such a PITA. I already edited my schedule... after this, do one wildly unreffed thing for fun, then another self portrait in oil


http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/selfOil4.jpg

NR43
11-03-2007, 08:51 AM
Hi Mu
By no means I am able to crit your latest experiments since I don't plan to touch real paint before 2009 or so, so I'm just popping in to say hello and to let you know that here's following your journey with (silent) enthousiasm :)

Keep rocking!

SpiritDreamer
11-12-2007, 09:40 AM
HEY ...MR MU ...:)

It's GREAT to see you struggling...LOL :scream:
GREAT things come from struggle....if it's not worth struggling for, then it's probably not worth the doing...:)
I like the MOOD that you have achieved so far in this latest update..POWERFUL EXPRESSIONISTIC PIECE, AS IS..:thumbsup:
On your next one, think in terms of composition and design..FIRST..
Do a couple of very small thumbnail sketches, and think of the power of the hands to express feeling, unify design, and capture a thought,..along of course with the powerful emotions that can be conveyed with the face, by expression...Just some food for thought, for your next self portrait...:)
TAKE CARE, AND HAVE A GREAT DAYS JOURNY..MY FRIEND..:thumbsup:
Glenn

Rebeccak
11-13-2007, 06:05 AM
Mu,

Good to talk to you the other day and hope we get to do that more often :)

Mu
11-13-2007, 09:02 AM
word, woman.

:)

CyborgJA
11-13-2007, 12:15 PM
I can't wait to see what will you paint from your imagination :freudModeON: :p:thumbsup:

Mu
11-13-2007, 10:36 PM
Do a couple of very small thumbnail sketches,

yes, something like this to guide me through the mist of the beginnings.

But, Serena and Glenn, though I look at the thing on my easel and basically go "ack, what a grand failure!" all the time, I intend on putting another few hours in it. I mean, I should at least put eyes and a nose back in there... and I might as well go Pollock on the whole thing, who cares.
Better luck next time.

Mu
12-18-2007, 01:58 PM
Forum!Romans!Friends!

hi there,

i am just trying to keep a rhythm. I am busy with other things at the moment, mainly pushing my music into the public (I am shamelessly plugging it in my sig, but here's the link to a few songs... again...: www.myspace.com/mukayi ) :D

But apart from the self-portrait **** up which is still staring at me from the canvas with its eyeless stare (and yes I am going to go at it again... I ruined a plastic pallette by leaving the colours to dry on them and had to buy a new one)...
...I am also trying to keep a drawing rhythm.

I put some india ink into my normal pen a few weeks ago, but I realized soon enough that I would ruin the pen that way when it dries.
So, I went to my local art supply shop and asked which kind of tools are actually used with this ink when he pointed me to the pens/quills with just a wooden handle and a metal nib.
Me: "Wow, that is pretty old school!"
Him: "That is pretty old school..."


Without further ado:

doodling from imagination, ink and a bit of watersoluble pencil washes
http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/inklings0004.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/inklings0003.jpg


starting with a word and doodling from there... and don't ask me about "lust"... I went with whatever happened... :surprised:
:scream:
("Mut" means "courage")


http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/inklings0002.jpg


("Mitte" means "centre", "middle")
http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/inklings0001.jpg



and when I had doodled enough, I did a Hogarth copy from "drawing dynamic hands" (strongly recommended)(the book)(but copying also...:D )

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/hogarthhandstudy.jpg

AztcFireFlower
12-19-2007, 09:28 AM
What a great way to keep the drawing hand moving. Nice ink drawings from the words. This is a good exercise even for environment design in creating mood and atmosphere.
Will see how your oil painting develops. I know it can be frustrating when trying to get it right. But applaud your spirit to tackle and gain from this challenge.

Rebeccak
12-19-2007, 09:48 AM
Nice update Mu! I think you've got the Art Spirit. Speaking of which, that's a great book which you would really enjoy, by Robert Henri (http://www.amazon.com/Art-Spirit-Fragments-Technique-Appreciation/dp/0064301389).

Mu
12-19-2007, 10:51 AM
AztcFireFlower - thanks so much for the support. :)

Rebecca - kaching! bought! :D

Mu
12-20-2007, 02:51 PM
more gestures. More ink.

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/newink1.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/newink2.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/newink0003.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/newink4.jpg


And final Hogarth copy, again...
I call this: "thumb, penetrating meat loaf...." :surprised:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/newink5.jpg

CgIcecube
12-20-2007, 05:49 PM
Hi Mu!
I really enjoy reading your thread;)
Gestures in Ink bring so much fluidity and confidence in drawing which one can see in these sketches!..
Nice render of the thumb from Hogarth's book!

Trunks
12-21-2007, 06:53 PM
Hello Mr.Mu! (I love this, it always reminds me of Cpt. Kirk from Star Trek "Mr. Tcheckov" or however he is written ... I always loved this :) You know Michael Mittermeier and his joke about this? I could listen to it like one million times and still not stop to lough :D )

When you work with ink, you can try to shade some parts with a brush and a little water to get some nearly black grey. I think this might be a good method to get a better shading with ink in your pieces.

Keep it up!
Thomas

Rebeccak
12-21-2007, 09:31 PM
Hey, you are definitely getting better! More copies, please! :D - Great to hear you bought "The Art Spirit" I think you'll really like it since it's so well written...

Mu
12-21-2007, 11:05 PM
CgIcecube

thanks for the support! The thumb itself is okay - but I still shake my head in disbelief at the base of the thumb or the thumb half of the palm of the hand....:argh:

:D

Trunks
I am not into MM too much, I am afraid, so I don't know the sketch... as concerns values... "Zwei Doofe ein Gedanke"...:D siehe Update von gleich...:D

Rebecca
Yea, I bought it as a present for a friend of mine who is a writer, too (and she has an incredible voice, btw... she practised Alison Krauss songs and it sent goosebumps over my arms... really cool) and I know she'll love it! And then I will shamelessly borrow it...:scream:

Today.
I bought white ink! Now I can draw in black, add a middle grey with watersoluble pencil and heighten parts with white ink afterwards. Or I start with middle grey and go from there. Really fun things to do, now.

Doodles:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/valueInk1.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/valueInk2.jpg

Trunks
12-22-2007, 12:49 AM
Hey Mr.Mu, niceley done, the white highlights give the pieces some extra kick ;) On your second paper in the right top corner I see some eyes of a face. I think it would be really nice to work on this papers and finish something which appers suddenly by pure luck and give it more form like take the eyes and place a face around it. I think this is a nice training for imagination :)

Keep it up!
Thomas

Mu
12-22-2007, 01:27 AM
hey yea! I see them, too! Cool, will try to do something with them.

And yes, with that paper I specially put down the watersoluble pencil in varying pressure strokes so I could use the texture to fire my imagination...:)

Trunks
12-22-2007, 01:47 AM
That sounds like the right way to me! Really try to fire your imagination ... I think imagination is the strongest thing an artist has ... that's why we are artists right? The others do not have this strong imagination ;) Are you misxing this red blue colors on your pieces or do they come via some strange luck? :D It could be interresting to vary the intensity of them too ;)

Such eventuell einfahc mal bei Google Nach Mittermeier und Star Trek Sketch falls du den mal hören willst, ist aus "Zapped" meiner Meinung nach echt einer der lustigsten Witze ever ;)

Gord-MacDonald
12-22-2007, 06:00 AM
Hi Mu!!!

I love your notebook sketches - some very nice work!
Congrats on your Skipper certification (I think I am "certifiable" but not certified at anything :rolleyes:
keep up the good work!!! :thumbsup:

Gord

NR43
12-25-2007, 09:24 AM
A fellow student had a reallly nice thing with her in class a couple of weeks ago.
It was sort of a pen, to be used with chineze or indian ink, but it had a small brush as a tip. I think it is normally used for calligraphy.

Donnow why I'm saying this really lol. Was just reminded of it after seeing your ink sketches. Using wash and inking on top of it worked out pretty well :)

Merry Xmas and all the best for 2008 Mu!

SpiritDreamer
12-25-2007, 11:43 AM
HEY ....MR MU ....MERRY CHRISTMAS .:) .PEACE ON EARTH.....:applause: :)

I WAS JUST THINKING...:eek: :scream: ...IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HEAR YOU PLAY ON YOUR GUITAR, AND SING THAT OLD BUT TIMELESS SONG DONE BY LOUIS ARMSTRONG.....goes something like,....AND I THINK TO MYSELF, ....WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD....:) ...TAKE CARE...MR MU
Glenn

CyborgJA
12-28-2007, 06:04 PM
Ehi ehi ehi. I stayed offline for a while and see which incredible works you produce eh ?!

I think you've found your technique, I really appreciate the line work and in general the personality you are able to express with it.

Update it soon and happy new year !

Mu
12-28-2007, 06:29 PM
Oh hey! So many replies...

Trunks - the colours are from the "grey" watercolor pencil which is not lightfast enough for the scanner's eye. I desaturated the new uploads. They match the impression you get with the human eye now a bit more closely...

Hey Gord... ahoy skipper... maybe we'll meet halfway on the Atlantic someday...:scream:

Johan - all the best to you, mate. Keep your hand smooth and healthy and the art juices flowing!

Glenn - argh! It's gonna be a while before I lay my hands on any satchmo song...:D

Serena - thanks so much... happy new year to you...:love:

structure studies:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/hogarth_nu0001.jpg


http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/hogarth_nu0002.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/hogarth_nu0003.jpg


All of which are Hogarth copies, of course.

I was thinking (especially with this last one) "WOW! What a lifeless piece of shit!" I don't want to sound too harsh, but I guess I realized that there has been something wrong with my work in general.

The above is missing gesture. Structure might be there alright (though my structure has always been the weaker of the two), but the gesture is totally missing.
On the other hand, what has been increasingly annoying to me when doing gestures from imagination was their structural weakness.

So it boils down to the following thought process:

my structural work is lacking gesture.
my gestural work is lacking structure.

I don't know how to remedy that, but I concentrated on copying photos these last few days to clean my head of this knot.

Mu
12-28-2007, 08:14 PM
damnéd be th'accurséd image posting limit....

I lost some text, so here's a rerun:

I copied shots from a wonderful volume on Germany during the Great Depression of the 1920s:

I did quick sketches with a pencil following these steps:
- envelopes
- gestures
- block in
- contour
- implied shade edges

Then I set to work like this:
- basic outlines in black indian ink
- middle value in grey watercolor pencil (two glazing washes in the latter two as the whites didn't pop enough)
- more darkening with the black ink
- lights with white opaque ink

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/greatDepression0001.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/greatDepression0002.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/greatDepression0003_nu.jpg

Trunks
12-29-2007, 11:24 AM
I love the last one... very nice mood. You did a great job!

CyborgJA
12-29-2007, 06:35 PM
From my personal experience, "gesture" is one of the most hard things to obtain. First of all I think you might have in "transparence" the body's anatomy cause you have not to think to it in order to fully concentrate on what the subject is expressing and how you can pose it to better express the concept. In other words, you should not be in troubles thinking "ehi is the arm right in this pose??Am I drawing something unnatural?" to straightly go to the gesture study.

This is hard...so hard especially when you start to think that EACH subject has its own gesture. I mean...I'm now focusing on horses and I can assure you that there are a lot of differences also in breeds. Same if you shift to cats or dogs or trees or anything else. The quantity of work we have to analize and make "our" is huge and sometimes I feel depressed when I look at my works and I feel them static.

I really don't know which is the best way to fix this trouble (even if I think is practice and study and practice and again study), the single thing I can honestly tell you is that frustration is a common feeling here :hmm:

but we will reach the point...don't worry...we will for sure !

Mu
12-29-2007, 07:31 PM
hi trunks,

thanks...:)

Serena,
yea, I don't know how to resolve this other than to practice both, but it sure helps to hear about what you think of this...:)

Mu
01-02-2008, 10:18 PM
a mastercopy/detail of a Käthe Kollwitz woodcut print reproduction:

black watercolor and white ink on watercolor paper:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/kollwitzcopy.jpg

CyborgJA
01-03-2008, 08:30 AM
Mmmmm i think I prefer your previous works, this one is too.."too"... for my personal taste. O_O

Mu
01-03-2008, 10:34 AM
LOL, I admit it has a somewhat experimental character... :D

I have been thinking about trying to imitate this effect for quite a while now. There are other drawings by her which I will copy with my black/grey/white approach, too.

In part, this was also due to the fact that my black ink bottle recently spilled its contents all over the pencil case I keep my drawing tools in (I had to wash everything clean while it was still liquid...:argh: ) and so I am a bit short of black ink right now...:scream:

warpy
01-03-2008, 10:43 AM
hey mu,

you are definitely trying to touch all the many forms of art. i would actually like to see you take either the water color or ink or whatever and move a few levels up only with that.
your latest are a lot of fun to do but i know you can do a whole lot better, i think you should copy harder references, something that makes your head hurt and your hands shake.

what do you think ?

Mu
01-03-2008, 04:18 PM
I think that a hurting hand and shaking hands sounds like my post-new-years-eve-party status...:D

But I will copy more of Kollwitz and also more in ink, so yes, that will be harder as her graphically stark illustrations in woodcut don't accurately represent her intricate understanding of human form...

Mu
01-13-2008, 10:07 PM
my current OFDW wip

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/kentaur0001lofi.jpg

anandpg
01-14-2008, 04:50 AM
Hey Mu!! I just love your latest pen-and-ink stuff!!:bounce: Would definitely like to see more of them!:drool:

fifty3dragons
01-14-2008, 05:21 AM
Hey, Mu, some great stuff here. Really liked the copies from the German volume. I wish I could help you out with gesture, but I'm working on it myself. Though everyone seems to say the same thing: draw, draw, draw :scream:


I liked the Hogarth hand too. I recognized it immediately.

CyborgJA
01-14-2008, 08:28 AM
You know I already love your OFDW choice....


Can't wait to see more !

Mu
01-14-2008, 09:34 AM
Serena,
yea, but I will take it slow...:D patience...:D

fifty3dragons,
yea, there's no shortcuts, I guess. Still, I need to occasionally let my frustration out...

anand,
wow, thanks very much. I am still confused when I get compliments by artists I admire so much...::bowdown:

thanks for the kind words, everyone!

Frejasphere
01-14-2008, 10:03 AM
Hey there Mu :)

Firstly a belated but still well meant happy holidays - Christmas and all that jazz, with
a sparkling start to the new year :)

I had a listen to your music a while ago and meant to comment on that as well :)
Great tunes - almost sounds like you're playing a 12 string at times, nice clear sound :thumbsup:
What a talent you have! Der Fluch is a current favourite. Don't know if you've heard
of John Butler - or the John Butler Trio (from Australia), maybe you'd like - your playing
reminds me of his style... I'm sure you'll have ample audience in no time!

And Käthe Kollwitz :) I like her work! Great for contrast and
working with stripped back tonal values to achieve effect.

Great to see you joining the OFDW - look forward to see where this one goes!

cheers and take care
a. :)

Mu
01-14-2008, 02:57 PM
Wow, thanks Annette,

always sends a warm shiver down my chest when people say they like what they heard. I'll be checking out John Butler fo' sho'doh...:D

see you around!

:wavey:

Trunks
01-15-2008, 11:59 AM
Hey Mr. Mu,
great so see you are attempting on the OFDW :D I think this will help you a lot to improve ... as mastercopies normally do always ;)
Why are there this black lines in your piece ?

I am looking forward to a next update :) Keep it up!
Thomas

Mu
01-23-2008, 08:47 PM
Yea, erm...

there's a story behind this.

While I ****ed this self portrait up to the last stage I posted here I had the feeling that the sinister impression of it kinda fit an old thinking pattern and self image I had.
When I had taken the eyes and the mouth out I was pretty much left with a depiction of the limp spirit I provided my self with over the years.

For nearly two months the thing was sitting on the easel in my living room, reminding me to stay blind, mute and dark.
Things did not work out.

The new year, however, turns out to be coming with a fantastic start:
- I got a new job with much better pay
- I got paid gigs for my music, got to know new musicians and received a lot of encouraging feedback for my music.
- I started reading my poems (which means in addition to having done readings with short stories and satire... I just never figured anyone would want to hear me read my poems, too) and got invited to reading shows for it.
- I got to know other authors with whom I am planning a regular reading show

and other great stuff.

So, while hopping from cloud to cloud a friend of mine inquired to me about the oil colour self portrait that has been scaring her ever since I stopped working on it and let it rest in the corner of the living room.
It was not there any more.
It turned out I did not realize my wife had put it away, facing the wall in our bedroom. When my friend learned about the new place for that piece of cardboard she insisted I never put it up next to my working place (desk!) again as she suspected it to have a desastrous effect on the whole energy with which I approach things.

And the longer I thought about it the more I was convinced that I had to do something about it. So today I got it out again and put a face in there. I turned it around - from a mute, hollow non-me into a self portrait... pretty much like I gave everything else this year a mighty turn...:)

technicalities:
I feel pretty secure about blending in oils, but creating pronounced edges and detail while working wet-in-wet is still giving me headaches. I use bristle brushes. In order to work fat over lean I thinned the colours down with a bit of linseed oil.
Any suggestions to be able to create sharp edges and detail?
(When working over a dried layer it's ok... it's with alla prima I got issues...)

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_selfinoil.jpg

SpiritDreamer
01-24-2008, 11:18 AM
HEY....MR MU ...:wavey: :) :bounce: :applause: :thumbsup: :arteest:

TAKE CARE
Glenn

anandpg
01-24-2008, 11:50 AM
Hey Mu!... Good to know that you life has taken a turn for the better!.. I guess everybody has ups and downs, but as artists, we are better equipped to ride the waves without really getting damaged!.. that is, if you hold on to your art, and never forget that it is the most precious thing in your life!!

I listened to your music, and I think it is wonderful!.. thanks for posting the link!.:) I am more into Indian classical, but I enjoy all kinds of music, except for the very noisy ones..:D
.. and needless to say, the SP is pretty cool!:thumbsup:

Mu
01-24-2008, 03:19 PM
hey Glenn, thanks LOL

Anand, thanks very much for your compliments as well as your inspiring words about the ups and downs. Yes, it's the thing that keeps us going and as long as you hold on to it it will keep you up...

I love indian classical music (as well as indian musicians' collaborations with other cultures). As I play slide guitar I have a recommendation, in case you shouldn't know him... check Debashish Bhattacharya (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=debashish%20&search=Search) out! Beautiful and masterful!

kary
01-24-2008, 05:44 PM
Very cool to hear the background on that self portrait Mu, and congrats that things are going so well :)

CgIcecube
01-24-2008, 06:43 PM
Really wonderful to know about the great time new year has got for you:bounce:

Mu
01-25-2008, 05:02 PM
Everybody,

I need your help and advice!


my daughter of six years has decided to learn how to draw.

As she has seen and observed me paint/draw quite often she would not join the drawing course her elementary school offered.
I am not sure wether the actual craftmanship of drawing would have been part of the course there, but as she could take only one course in the afternoons anyway she went for dancing and figured she can have both if I teach her how to draw.

Anyhow - I feel honoured and scared at the same time. So, I would really very much appreciate any advice or thoughts you might come up with!

My most important goal right now is to keep her joy for drawing/painting alive. She always liked to paint and I want to keep it that way.
But apart from that her paintings are already full of the usual (childlike) symbols:
- triangles for roofs
- straight lines for arms and fingers
- U-shapes for smiling mouths and so on

So, I figured a good point for the beginning would be to try someting loose and gestural.
I suggested we do nonsense doodles with pencil and try to spot something in there and then use heavier lines to show the other one what we saw (It was interesting to see how doodling that way confused her... I had to show her how to mix straight lines, S-lines and circles to come up with a meaningless doodle...!)

So, this is where we got after about 25min...:


http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/learn0001.jpg


Which is one animal and two faces. I think these look more 3D or more spacial in a way than the usual symbols of a 6 year old (for example how the eyes cover each other from view and stuff like that).

I also told her to get a sketchbook with blank pages and to draw in there doodles with eyes for one week.
Something I have in mind was to do something like in "Drawing from the right side of the brain" where you copy lines or even images by way of putting them upside down (learning how to draw what you see, not what you think you see).

If anyone has any experience or can set the two of us on the right track I'd be happy to hear about it.

:)

P.S.: and now she is sitting in the kitchen trying to draw the buddha statue we got there. :surprised

Rebeccak
01-25-2008, 05:45 PM
Hey Mu,

How cute! :) It's sweet that your daughter wants to learn directly from you - I'm sure you see that as a big responsibility.

I would just suggest not pushing her too hard at this stage. Give her fun, rewarding exercises that are easy and confidence building. The main thing I'd suggest is to get some sort of book for kids / with exercises for drawing - amazon.com has many of these sorts of 'how to' / instructional books for all age and skill levels.

Every kid is different, personally I probably wouldn't have done art as much had my parents pushed me too hard at it / vs. being encouraging. But some kids just want to spend more time with mom / dad so this kind of activity is perfect for that. Just give her a lot of positive feedback (as I'm sure you do) she's probably still at the coloring book stage so there's no reason not to just supply her with a lot of those and throw the occasional simple Betty Edwards style exercise into the mix.

SpiritDreamer
01-25-2008, 05:49 PM
HEY ...MR MU....:)

When I was about six, I remember my dad bringing home a four foot by three foot black chalk board..same kind that they have in schools, except smaller, ...ALSO a few boxes of white chalk, and a felt chalk board eraser.
Seemed that drawing on the black chalk board with the side of the chalk, and also the tip of the chalk was great fun, for both my dad, and myself.:)
I used to spend hours, just drawing large, fast, and loose,..ANAMALS MOSTLY, AND MY FAVORITE CARTOON CHARACTERS..Fintstones, Top cat ect.Then erasing whatever I had done, with just a few quick strokes of that broad felt erasier,..and starting over again.
I also remember getting a nice set of FINGER PAINTS...Not even sure if they still make those, ..but I had a ball with them...getting my fingers, hands, elbows ect..into the painting..:scream: Messy, but GREAT FUN..:bounce: At age six..Produced many a masterpiece using that COLORFUL IMPASTO TACTILE TOUCH FINGER PAINT TECHNIQUE...plus they even tasted good..:)
MAKE IT FUN MR MU...THAT'S WHAT CHILHOOD IS FOR, AND ALL ABOUT..:)
TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
01-25-2008, 06:57 PM
hey you two,

sounds very good to me!
Indeed, I remember certain art teachers at school driving the joy of painting out with a fiery sword, so-to-speak. I lost a lot of years thinking I didn't want to paint.
So that is indeed my main goal: to just keep her painting and protect that joy for drawing she has now.

Colouring books she does a lot.
I am afraid she is hungry for more...:D
That might have to do with the fact that she sees what I draw (I tend to invite her to bring her watercolors to the kitchen table and just paint something when I paint so we can sit together) and now wants to do similar things. When I finished my self portrait she had her mother sit still for a few minutes and tried to draw her!

We have a chalk board in the basement and finger paint sounds good to me, too! Thanks for your tips! And thanks for reminding me of keeping a space for her to be playful and just have fun.

CyborgJA
01-27-2008, 09:15 AM
she could take only one course in the afternoons anyway she went for dancing and figured she can have both if I teach her how to draw.



She has already understood everything of the world :wise::thumbsup:

I think you have to subscribe her at cgtalk as soon as she will be able to read and write :cool:

I see a whole Mu's dinasty will take place here :cool:

Frejasphere
03-18-2008, 03:56 PM
Hi Mu :)

Great that your daughter is loving art :) I think you are right in keeping the
fun and enjoyment there... I also think you have no need to worry, you will be an
excellent teacher: it's all about sharing something that you have a passion for
and watching her embark on her own journey.

Both my kids (6 & 8) love drawing and painting... I get reams of paper from the local
paper supplier and they work their way through what feels like truckloads of it, we also use
charcoal and paints in the studio where they can experiment with large papers.
Children don't seem precious about keeping their drawings (I do try and keep track and
save quite a lot), it's much more about the 'now' and the enjoyment of doing the drawings
and paintings - and all the thoughts that pop out in great conversations in the process.

If she's hungry for more: let her try different materials; markers, charcoal, paint, pastels - so she can see the different marks each one makes - the chalk board is an excellent idea from Glenn :)

There's a great cartoonist Oistein (former known as Einstein) (bit of branding as he's associated with Faber Castell) who has imaginative and fun ways to show children how to draw: you can view his site here: (http://www.oistein-kristiansen.com/html/homepage.php)
(http://www.oistein-kristiansen.com/html/homepage.php)
Show her art you like - and tell stories about the artists
let her do the 2 minute portraits they're great fun :)
maybe she likes drawing/ painting her dreams
getting teddies to pose (can become quite elaborate as they may need dressing up first :D)

Have fun - and yes a cg Mu dynasty is in the making

cheers
a. :)

NR43
04-18-2008, 10:48 AM
Hey Mu

had to dig hard into the pile of sketchbook threads to find yours ;)

Anyway, was just wonderiing if life is still treating you well and if there is any room for more visual creativity

Perhaps, when you find a gap or a dead moment, you could join OFDW23?
Would be awesome!

take care,
Johan

SpiritDreamer
04-18-2008, 02:37 PM
HEY...MR MU....I SECOND THAT MOTION...:scream: ...There are a couple of DaVinci hands to select from...tailor made for your studies..:)

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Ego
04-18-2008, 02:56 PM
Hmm, maybe he became a big music star ?

Mu
04-18-2008, 04:23 PM
Ego, not yet...:D
feel free to check out...
www.muratkayi.de/concms/cms/upload/downloads/music/Hey_Guru_live.mp3 (http://www.muratkayi.de/concms/cms/upload/downloads/music/Hey_Guru_live.mp3)
...for a live recording, though.

I am doing gigs and a lot (and I do mean a lot) of networking with other musicians and writers.
So much in fact, that everything which is not music and writing suffers and has to do so in order to get things done.
I am starting a regular reading show in my hometown with three other authors in June, giving two extra readings next week and one more two weeks after that (and also plan on adding a reading session of classical authors in a local retirement home, see the REVIEW CIRCLE threads in the cgsociety forum for my to-do lists...:D ) and contacted some great folk musicians (they played in a bluegrass band) who turned out to be neighbours and we plan on bringing bluegrass and irish/scottish folk music together like they did in the transatlantic sessions.
That would really make me leave my blues-comfort-zone on my steel guitar... and I would have to really study Jerry Douglases way of playing... something I wanted to thorougly do for quite a while now and never felt enough project pressure to actually do.

That's what's happening over the next five weeks, only!

And I did not talk about marketing my stuff or practising too much!

So, argh! No painting. I need to make a cut somewhere.
But I do follow your threads!

Glenn! I regularly pop in... imagine having quite a silent visitor, enjoying the show from a dark corner of the workshop...:scream:

Johan, so nice to hear from you. I really do plan on adding more drawings again into this thread, but not in the next 8 weeks. When holiday comes...
*makes a mental note...*

BTW, I learned to use calendars and organizers and note-taking apps and reminders and task lists over the last few months. I never did that before.

Many changes... but it feels oh so good, my fellow forumites...

a big hearty hug to all of you.

I'll be back soon... promise!

Frejasphere
04-20-2008, 11:04 AM
Hi Mu :)

Good to hear you're cruising and doing things you are passionate about :wavey:
that is what life is all about! Wishing you luck and hope to see you back here
when time gives you a window :)

cheers
a. :)

NR43
04-20-2008, 01:47 PM
Good to hear you're cruising and doing things you are passionate about that is what life is all about!

I agree with Annette!

And thanks for sharing the song... it reminds me of a time, years ago, when I used to work in an Irish pub and we would have a band playing regularly... good times :)

Take care

Mu
06-08-2008, 11:11 AM
Hi everyone,

I have been very ill all may (had to have two surgeries and no cosmetic ones...:D ) and was basically on standby, lying on the couch all day.

I had to cancel several readings and was of course missing at work (my new employer was very supportive which was great).

Anyway...

I am slowly recovering, had a comparatively normal working week and did a reading again and now decided to not let the painting passion sleep too long.

a gurney copy....:

the original from my book:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/Gurney1_ref.jpg


WIP 1

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/Gurney1_wip1.jpg



I am working real small. I basically wanted to use this copy as an exercise in colour mixing as well as handling medium and glazing and I think I managed to mess up all of these...:scream:

The original has a deeper green than my hue - I mixed it from green and red, using the complementary colours to tone down the saturation. I applied the resulting colour as a glazing layer over a light blue hue.

W&N Medium is a cool thing. It makes the colour liquid without altering the value or hue or saturation. This in combination with a bit of water which influences value and you have a versatile tool for colour mixing which I want to explore a bit.

cya all
Mu

anandpg
06-08-2008, 04:50 PM
Hey Mu! Great to have you back!:bounce: .... wish you all speed in your recovery! :) .. and all the best with your painting! Here is some Indian fusion music to cheer you up:D :
(You need to have realplayer installed to play it)

http://www.raaga.com/channels/carnatic/movie/CL00842.html

Mu
06-08-2008, 05:01 PM
ah yes! My doctor recommended a daily dose of indian fusion music...:D

NR43
06-08-2008, 08:16 PM
Hope you'll be better soon man!
And it's great to hear from you :)

selphoo
06-08-2008, 09:48 PM
Great idea for a copy.. Nice Starting with it ;) What's that medium on the 1st picture?

Hope you're gettin' more healthy - waiting for the progress :D

Cheers.

Mu
06-08-2008, 10:03 PM
Hi selphoo,

the original is done in oils, too. That's why I tried it in oils, too. I inquired to the artist about his method and he even answered! You can learn a lot about his painting technique and even more about his way of thinking from his blog which by now I visit on a daily basis...:

http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/
(check the blog index for coherent posts on certain topics!)

Johan, man,
so nice to have you pop in. Have a virtual drink and a cookie!
:)

selphoo
06-08-2008, 10:17 PM
I see that it's oil work, but i'm asking about that bottle with medium inside on 1st picture :D

Mu
06-08-2008, 10:23 PM
ROFL!

That is Winsor & Newton water mixable oil painting medium.

see here:
W&N Medium is a cool thing. It makes the colour liquid without altering the value or hue or saturation. This in combination with a bit of water which influences value and you have a versatile tool for colour mixing which I want to explore a bit.

selphoo
06-08-2008, 10:25 PM
oh ;D i haven't seen that text :D also alles klah! peace!

Rebeccak
06-09-2008, 07:04 AM
Heya Mu, I really like the start to this piece and look forward to seeing it develop. :) Good to see that you are keeping active in your recovery!

Mu
06-09-2008, 05:06 PM
selphoo,

no prob! cya soon, til then...: Cześć

Rebecca,

yea my doctor prescribed a moderate dose of getting-my-ass-in-gear...

"there's a double meaning in it..."
(Shakespeare, Much Ado about nothing)

sycen
06-10-2008, 01:04 PM
Hello, :)
Great painting and I hope you get well soon.

SpiritDreamer
06-10-2008, 01:22 PM
HEY THERE ..MR MU...:wavey: :)

SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE A GOOD DOCTOR..LOL..:scream:

I like where your going with that painting:thumbsup: ..Good to see you are keeping your fingers in the paint...good rust prevention...:)

ANYWAY,....GET WELL MY FRIEND.
TAKE CARE
Glenn

Frejasphere
06-11-2008, 12:09 AM
Heya Mu :)

Indian fusion... painting... what better recovery activities could a doctor suggest? ;)
Great to see you back :wavey: Not good that you've been ill though... take it easy man
and hope that your surgery was mild, with speedy recovery happening now :)

I like the flow in this painting and look forward to see where you will take it

take care and cheers
a. :)

AztcFireFlower
06-24-2008, 06:18 PM
Well, Mr. Mu, you learn the most when you "mess up" although it dosn't look like you did at all. I can see you're having some fun experimenting. Have never tried water misable oils. I love the smell of turp too much. :)
Am waiting to see how it turns out.

Thanks for popping into my thread. Always appreciate the visits.

Mu
07-13-2008, 02:05 PM
hi,

before I went on vacation I quickly ruined that study above. I tore it to pieces. For those interested in the details of my failure, I documented it here: http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451652&page=2

When I was on vacation (lots of laziness and beach and family, yay) I tried two velazquez mastercopies which turned out so otherworldly and hideous I couldn't finish them. That's when I decided to just doodle around a bit without ref.

So, here's that:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/doodle%20007.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/doodle%20001.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/doodle%20002.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/doodle%20003.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/doodle%20004.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/doodle%20005.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/doodle%20006.jpg

Frejasphere
07-14-2008, 12:24 PM
Hi Mu :)

Good to see you back again :) I checked your wetcanvas thread - don't really think
you've torn the piece 'to pieces' at all - it's a great start and hopefully you will return
to it and see it with fresh eyes (I could only see the Wip1 image) to finish or explore
further. I've never tried the water soluble... You know there's odorless turps as well - allowing you to paint in a confined environment :D

Nice sketches!

cheerio and keep posting
a. :)

Mu
08-03-2008, 05:53 PM
just a demo of a Painter watercolor brush I can use for flat washes - a very basic technique which non of the preset looks in the watercolor category actually provides you with.

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/wash_demo.JPG

Mu
12-25-2008, 04:38 PM
Alarm!
Drive-by-posting!

A merry peaceful christmas to all of you forumites. I found the time for a few studies in watercolor pencils or pencil.

I decided the main thing I am missing and lacking is life studies (something I especially thought when viewing Johan's wonderful thread), so I figured here and there a bit of (15 mins of) life studies of my beloved ones or anyone who didn't manage to escape should do me good.

yours
Mu

from life

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/Scan-081225-0003_LOFI.jpg

from ref
http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/Scan-081225-0002_LOFI.jpg

from ref
http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/Scan-081225-0001_LOFI.jpg

SpiritDreamer
12-26-2008, 12:32 AM
HEY STRANGER..:scream: ....From Jessica, Myself, and a very loud PEPE.... MERRY CHRISTMAS MR MU..:)

I like your idea of doing works from life.:thumbsup: ..They will not only reflect your subject, but will also reflect your own mood/feeling, which in a sense is a SNAPSHOT REFLECTION of YOU..:D
TAKE CARE, AND HAVE A GREAT AND PEACEFUL JOURNY MR MU..:)
Glenn

NR43
12-26-2008, 07:30 AM
Hey Mu

2nd sheet is a really beautiful example of how some studies can form a nice image as a whole together

I hope you and yours are going towards a wonderful 2009!

Mu
12-26-2008, 11:32 PM
Hi Johan, Hi Glenn,

take a seat, nevermind the dust on the upholstery. The appartment is not abandoned, I am mostly on the road, taking care of stuff, but felt that I was missing both drawing and you guys in this friendly corner of the web, so I decided to open the windows and the door and let a bit of fresh air in...


Oh, btw, I am going to be father again in June next year! I figured I should use the first half of the year to refresh my drawing hand before it needs to tend to tiny cheeks and diapers again...:scream:


Life Drawing:
Why do people move so often? It's a bad habit and something should be done about it. I tried to draw them nevertheless, but beauty is turned to ugliness, kids to grown-ups and resemblances are non-existant... in my drawings, anyway.

Do I just have to do it, in spite of how crappy everything looks when I don't have time? I don't have people doing the "life drawing model" for me and it's not gonna happen in 2009 either (the thought of attending a life drawing course to get a model makes me laugh, I need to fit three schedules in a normal 24h day already).

So maybe, I'll just be stubborn and see it through. Or maybe I'll add occasional self portraits - I got enough patience.


http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/Scan-081227-0001_LOFI.jpg


http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/Scan-081227-0006_LOFI.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/Scan-081227-0005_LOFI.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/Scan-081227-0004_LOFI.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/Scan-081227-0003_LOFI.jpg

Mu
12-26-2008, 11:33 PM
and another one:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/Scan-081227-0002_LOFI.jpg

Gord-MacDonald
12-27-2008, 01:39 AM
Everybody,

I need your help and advice!


my daughter of six years has decided to learn how to draw.

As she has seen and observed me paint/draw quite often she would not join the drawing course her elementary school offered.
I am not sure wether the actual craftmanship of drawing would have been part of the course there, but as she could take only one course in the afternoons anyway she went for dancing and figured she can have both if I teach her how to draw.

Anyhow - I feel honoured and scared at the same time. So, I would really very much appreciate any advice or thoughts you might come up with!

My most important goal right now is to keep her joy for drawing/painting alive. She always liked to paint and I want to keep it that way.
But apart from that her paintings are already full of the usual (childlike) symbols:
- triangles for roofs
- straight lines for arms and fingers
- U-shapes for smiling mouths and so on

So, I figured a good point for the beginning would be to try someting loose and gestural.
I suggested we do nonsense doodles with pencil and try to spot something in there and then use heavier lines to show the other one what we saw (It was interesting to see how doodling that way confused her... I had to show her how to mix straight lines, S-lines and circles to come up with a meaningless doodle...!)

So, this is where we got after about 25min...:


http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/learn0001.jpg


Which is one animal and two faces. I think these look more 3D or more spacial in a way than the usual symbols of a 6 year old (for example how the eyes cover each other from view and stuff like that).

I also told her to get a sketchbook with blank pages and to draw in there doodles with eyes for one week.
Something I have in mind was to do something like in "Drawing from the right side of the brain" where you copy lines or even images by way of putting them upside down (learning how to draw what you see, not what you think you see).

If anyone has any experience or can set the two of us on the right track I'd be happy to hear about it.

:)

P.S.: and now she is sitting in the kitchen trying to draw the buddha statue we got there. :surprised

Hi MU - the quality time you will spend with your daughter on this is the best thing about it. I love the placement of the shapes on the page - was that daughter or daddy's doing - or both ;-)

This will be a time you will both remember and cherish :)

I really like your last work - the German expressionists would be proud.

Cheers,
Gord

SpiritDreamer
12-27-2008, 07:03 AM
HEY MR MU..CONGRATS ON THAT JUNE PRESENT...:scream: :D :thumbsup: :buttrock: :applause::bounce: :)

LIKE that last set of drawings... :thumbsup:

TAKE CARE
Glenn

NR43
12-27-2008, 09:28 AM
Hey Mu that's wonderful news!
Congratulations Sir!

About life drawing, I know what you mean... been trying to sketch my kids lately and it seems 15 seconds is an amazingly long time in a child's life :D

I wish I could show you this small sketchbook I have recently bought.
It's a reproduction of a sketchbook from Paul Cézanne.
It contains only drawings with minimal shading, very quickly done... you know... the main lines and a few hatching areas here and there, just to add a tadd more volume.

In fact, they don't look "better" than your sketches, they only look different... then again, I assume you are not Cézanne, so that's just fine ;)

Personally, I think it's all about seeing and enjoying what we see... and having an urge to reproduce it so when we look at it again we are reminded of the beauty of the real subject.

Anyway,
the point is to just sketch when you feel like it!

Take care and congratz to you and the mss!

Mu
12-27-2008, 01:59 PM
hi Gord,

the German expressionists would be proud.

... I am afraid so, yes...:scream:
Quality time is the key word. We just had a family gathering concerning that topic and your digging up that part of the thread comes just right...^^

Glenn,

lol, rock on! Greetings to the feathered and non-feathered members of the household...

Johan,

ah yes. "Don't bother and get to work." - I might try that...:D

cya folks
Mu

alicelefay
12-27-2008, 02:17 PM
Mu, congrats on this thread! I looked at your sketches and I find them interesting.
My best favourite is the one with mouth/nose/ear, lovely texture, lovely anathomy, and nice to look at it as a composition too.
I love the line you used in that row of sketches, it seems alive... good work!!

Mu
12-28-2008, 09:04 PM
Hey folks,

as I know that you're strong and not easy to shock I decided to post this, too (no point in just showing the "successful" drawings, eh?)

Three life drawings from hell... though slowly progressing. The first two left me totally clueless - I just couldn't believe how crappy everything turned out. I was doing the usual envelope-block-in-contour thingy (or tried), but it went all downhill.

With the last one which was not as bad as the other two, I was so frustrated (see the pinch below the drawing where I stabbed the paper and the wife told me off for using swear words in the presence of the little one) that I just scribbled and concentrated where shade and light was, regardless of the single features...

I am so clueless about life drawing. F)§($%§(CK

BTW, I consider buying this book. (http://www.amazon.de/Natural-Way-Draw-Working-Study/dp/0395530075/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I17HAG5VI7DWCQ&colid=JTAUVZC50H3U)

It contains the words working plan which sounds like just what I need for the upcoming year which will make it just as hard to reserve time for drawing as 2008. I need a plan.

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/Scan-081228-0001_LOFI.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/Scan-081228-0002_LOFI.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/Scan-081228-0003_LOFI.jpg

alicelefay
12-28-2008, 10:13 PM
Everyone passes a moment of "nonsense-dramatic" I think...soon or late... I just passed one and it's not passed yet, to be honest.
What helped me is to focus back on the "joy of drawing".
I mean...so many think you'd like to learn, so many fields you should improve at, so many times you feel like you draw just crap... What helped me was to relax and go back...drawing just for the fun of doing it and without thinking too much.
It helped me, gave me new energy to push myself again...I hope it can help you too!
Best whishes! :D

Mu
12-28-2008, 11:16 PM
hey Alice,

thanks for the good words - that was exactly what I was thinking so I got back to doing a DSF sketch for fun. Do you know the Daily Sketch Forum? It's in the mini challenge section, in case you're interested.

This one's for the topic "white out", 60 mins Painter, ref for the suit, the mask and the facial expression ("effort" on artnatomy, thanks to I think it was Gord(?) great resource!)

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/DSF1665_2.JPG

NR43
12-29-2008, 05:32 AM
Hey Mu,

what are you saying? these lil life drawing sketches are crap?
Forgive my bluntness but not the drawings need improvement, but your mentality does :)

So here's a small peptalk fro ya:
Ok the first one is off a bit, but it always takes a few sketches to warmup. I think it would be a sign of ultimate genius if each time one picks up a pencil, one draws a masterpiece.
The 2nd and 3rd sketch are lovely!
Those lines are really alive! Something I am searching for in my own sketches and not finding yet.

What Alice says is very true. Drawing for fun is the key and why? Because if you draw just for fun you will draw without expectation.
If you do this regularly, you will notice that you won't dislike the results as much as the first ones (believe me, my first life drawings were 1000x worse than these 3 you just upped)

Keep it up my friend, you're doing great things

alicelefay
12-29-2008, 10:36 AM
Yes, it's just ourselves that stop our growing somethimes.
IMO, doing daily training help our brain to learn a kind of "library" and "gestures"...but then, drawing is something like a meditative process, that brings us in a different level.
If we don't focus too much on thoughts that stop us, somethimes our brain, feel to wonder, brings us to draw something cool and..surprise! including the things we learned!

And yes, your sketches where good.

And yes, I know the daily sketch forum...I participated somethimes; the main problem is that my english sucks and somethimes I can't catch the meaning of the daily theme ^_^ LOL

Well....gogogo Mu! Have fun and surprise us! :p

Mu
12-29-2008, 05:43 PM
Johan and Alice,

thanks for being so straight, I think you're right. Looking back I might have been above all frustrated with the lack of time for drawing over the last year.

Today, I bought a little mirror for an occasional self portrait which I put into my desk drawer.
I need to make occasions.

Mu
12-29-2008, 08:31 PM
testing the new mirror. hehe.

around 20 mins. I see the shadow under the nose is not dark enough, now...

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/Scan-081229-0001_LOFI.jpg

alicelefay
12-30-2008, 10:15 AM
it's expressive, Mu. Maybe shadows are not perfects, I don't care. The eyes are expressives. It's amazing!
Makes me feel like using my little mirror :p

SpiritDreamer
12-30-2008, 12:18 PM
HEY MR MU..:) ALWAYS draw from your HEART,...and ALWAYS draw from what INSPIRES you....the same way, and with the same feeling as you play your musical instrument:arteest:

A drawing can be technically perfect,..but if it ain't got SOUL,..it's just so much CRAP..:eek: :twisted: :D

It's like that drawing you did awhile back of the kid skipping in the park,..you were inspired by what you saw, and that feeling came through in the drawing...Seek that inspiration, and you will find it, or it will find you...Learning to recongnize it, is the key that will unlock the door that blocks your way..:)

NICE SELF PORTRAIT BY THE WAY MR MU...:thumbsup:

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
12-30-2008, 03:53 PM
Thanks to both of you folks!

:beer:

Mu
12-30-2008, 10:28 PM
today, following thought: I once did gesture sketches of hands, why not try the same with a landscape?

Unfortunately I can't find the flickr page again where I ref'ed the first pic, maybe I will find it and post the link later, it'd sort of not feel right to upload the pic into this thread.

EDIT: ah, found it... there you go: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danstyles/2652730831/

anyway, here's what I got - a landscape gesture:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/bw1.JPG

alicelefay
12-31-2008, 08:45 AM
nice idea Mu!
You had it, in my opinion...the clouds have a cool movement line, same for the grass!
Cool!

yarabe
12-31-2008, 10:29 AM
Hi Mu, today i did find a moment to check your thread out. And i must say it's inspiring! I like the way you try out different kind of materials. Like it a lot! I will follow up on your advice thnx!

SpiritDreamer
12-31-2008, 01:25 PM
:thumbsup: HEY MR MU..:)

NICE LANDSCAPE GESTURE...:thumbsup:
Imagine what you could do with a laptop using that technique out in the open air while sitting in the park or wherever..just thinking out loud here..:)
Keep going MR MU.NICE TO SEE YOU EXPLORING, AND GETTING GOOD RESULTS IN THE PROCESS...:)
TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
12-31-2008, 01:42 PM
thanks alice

yarabe, you're welcome.

Glenn, I will use a very old version of a laptop... my watercolors perhaps or oil colours. But first I need to get stuff straight in digital from photo ref. That's basically the way I started with pure figurative also.

I was also thinking that the way I did facial features I could try to gesture landscape features and elements, like trees and rocks. Moreover, I need to remember opposing curves, too, somehow. I want, in the end, to be able to bring together figures and landscape with gesture and opposing curves in one approach. That would so rock...LOL

another one:

ref link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mythlady/2388375516/

the actual size I worked on:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/bw2.JPG

Mu
12-31-2008, 04:03 PM
by the differences in the two self portraits on this page you can see what kinds of problems I have to make the drawings actually accurate...:D

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/Scan-081231-0001_LOFI.jpg

alicelefay
12-31-2008, 05:38 PM
Mu working hard :beer:
I like the idea of gesture landscape. I must say that I found more expressive the first one you posted...maybe because of the clouds.
I'd love to see how far you will bring this idea.

While wondering around looking for inspiration or tutorials for my personal growing, it happened to me to find something that maybe could be useful to you.
I write you the links, and maybe you will find something useful :arteest:

- composition (http://website.lineone.net/%7Epeter.saw/ctutor/cmpsitn.htm)
- composition (http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=3275) here on Cgtalk
- environmental concept art (http://www.imaginefx.com/02287754329515045430/environmental-concept-art.html)
- something about matte painting (http://www.imaginefx.com/02287754331175202354/create-film-sets-in-photoshop.html)

I hope those links will be of some interest/inpiration for your work! :D

anandpg
01-03-2009, 06:36 AM
Hey Mu! Happy New Year!! very expressive SPs!:thumbsup:

Mu
01-03-2009, 11:34 PM
list of problems with this one:

- nose/mouth distance utterly wrong
- non-existant resemblance
- alignment of features... argh!
- absence of learned methods

Latest point refers to the fact that I forgot to spot the terminators (let alone draw them) and a couple of other things I learned when I studied Ryder's method. I need to decide when I have to just cut loose and get as many lines on the paper as possible before the model moves about and away and when to slow down a bit more and... well... do it properly

list of positive things about this one:

- I raised the eyebrows as I do this very often and introduced a bit of change
- I see more and more things about my eyes. Things I hadn't noticed before
- Hey. It's there. More mileage.

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/sp%20001_lofi.jpg

paperclip
01-04-2009, 12:23 AM
My darling muratstani, it's not that bad at all!

The main problem is that the back of the head isn't wide enough, as in far enough backwards.... along the z axis, with the regular axes being the dimensions of the face.

It's all steps along the same path, my friend. As you said, more mileage. More power to you.

alicelefay
01-04-2009, 09:43 AM
Yay!! gogogo!
The eyes are actually becoming more and more interesting! :beer:

Mu
01-04-2009, 12:44 PM
clippy!
Yea, I think I might have chopped off a bit of my head, there...

Alice,
I've got this magnifying mirror which I use for shaving... I figured I could/should do a close-up of a few facial features next.

thanks for the support, folks. The holidays are over by middle of next week and I think I managed to establish methods of keeping the drawing hand going on a minimum of alloted time during times of heavy workload (which will be all of this year, LOL)

cya
Mu

alicelefay
01-04-2009, 01:02 PM
Yay! Facial features!
Me too need to exercise more on them, mainly the nose >.<

Mu
01-10-2009, 02:17 PM
aand update on this week's drawing. You see it rarely happens, but it does.

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/maya%20001_LOFI.jpg




http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/tine%20001_LOFI.jpg

bought a new pencil, one of those with a little 0.5mm mine in them which you press out, don't know the name. I realized the sharpening of my other pencil got on my nerves and in the end never was sharp enough.

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/tine%20002_LOFI.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/thumb%20001_LOFI.jpg

cya
Mu

NR43
01-10-2009, 02:58 PM
I like using leaded pencils as well... got a 0.5 and a 0.9mm, although I seem to have lost my 0.5 :s

Keep the sketches comin' Mu
Great stuff so far!

alicelefay
01-10-2009, 02:59 PM
welcome to the world of mechanical pencils ^_^ I use them, too :D
sharpening every 3 secs hurts my nerves :D

Good to see you are still active, don't give up!

And btw the line seems better to me in the ones done with the mec. pencil :O

SpiritDreamer
01-10-2009, 05:49 PM
HEY MR MU...Not sure if you know about pencil renderings using that mechanical pencil and varying the leads as you use it to create your drawings/renderings...If you buy all of the leads from hardest to softest, you can get some incredible tones and values in your drawings/renderings, by continuously changing the leads acording to the area that is being shaded from dark to light and from light to dark.....sharpen them all ahead of time, and then when you need a different lighter or darker shade for a specific area, the lead will be ready and sharp for it's use.
Check out the last few small drawings/renderings that Michelangelo did before his death...a couple of small christ figures..and you will see clearer about what i'm talking about, and will get a clearer view of the technique used to render with pencil, and the beautiful results that can be gotten from that technique..:)
I really like the moods/feelings that you are capturing in your drawings by the way..:thumbsup: Looking forward to seeing lots more..:)
TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
01-10-2009, 09:28 PM
Hi Johan,
which grade do you use? Mine came loaded with a HB.

Alice,
yes, I felt the same way about the lines. I am not sure wether the same is true for very quick lines. I need to test that further down the road.

Glenn,
argh, that sounds a bit like something I was considering, but I need to stop me from time to time when it comes to gear buying. It's a bad habit of mine. I could shop forever and ever...:cry:

a landscape gesture. Or halfway between a gesture and a sloppy speedpaint. Don't know.
Slightly bigger than the size I was working on:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/bw3.JPG

NR43
01-11-2009, 09:23 AM
I use 2B because with HB (Half Black) I can never go dark enough, and I am someone who has a tendency to draw too lightly.

I like the quick landscape impressions... I think it's a great way to understand the impressionists.

Perhaps som high values in the last one can lead the viewer's eye to the focal point even stronger (although the composition is really strong imo)

Mu
01-11-2009, 01:05 PM
Hi Johan,

thanks for the reply.
I think I started this speedpaint with altogether too high values. That's why I can't really make them pop the way they should.

The composition is cool, but not mine. I forgot where I dl'ed the ref, but with the stuff that's coming I took notes of the URL so I can post it when I post my study.

I think I will try the 2B mines, too.

AztcFireFlower
01-12-2009, 09:05 AM
Mu, I Really don't think these drawings are bad at all.
http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/Scan-081228-0001_LOFI.jpg

The first one, in my opinion, has a free cool gesture sweep of cheek. I like it for this fresh clean line. Somtimes in a study you go for the sweep other times you can go for the proportion, and another time for structure. You tackle things at a time. In the end it's all experience and you will put it all together when it's needed. Take each aspect at a time. It's actually these moments when you move forward the most because you are focusing on a problem.

MANY good things about this SP.
http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/sp%20001_lofi.jpg
Sensitive depiction. You have a way with eyes.
There are structural issues, but as you mentioned you haven't yet absorbed a drawing system. Whatever that becomes, it's only a jumping point. Look at Andrew Loomis for head proportions, perhaps as a start. His book "Drawing the Head and Hands" is one of THE BEST online resources.
http://fineart.sk/index.php?cat=14
When you have basic proportions, you can then minutely alter them to fit the person's individual character.

Don't be discouraged. You will only get better. :)

NR43
01-12-2009, 12:49 PM
Hey Mu, I was just wondering... how long do you spend on these landscape gestures?
Sorry if you already mentioned this

Mu
01-12-2009, 06:13 PM
AztcFireFlower
(what a cool name, btw, I like it so much I sometimes whisper it to myself, because I love the sound of it)

Many thanks for both your detailed analysis and your support. As you might know, your drawings I adore so much it's fair to say they have become a kind of ideal to me.
You are right, my main issue with any quick drawing is structure. I feel Anthony Ryder's system was quite reliable for long and slow work - I need an approach for quick life drawings.
I will check out Loomis again - I have his stuff somewhere in PDF. Thanks for the reminder.

Johan,

I didn't time these, but they take somewhere between 15 and 25 minutes.

Mu
01-13-2009, 07:45 PM
was practising a method by alenah - drawing without any details, the pencil never leaves the surface of the paper, scribbled gestures, lines crossing themselves and all. Oddly satisfying, though it's obviously not about the results...:D

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_scribbly%20001_LOFI.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_scribbly%20002_LOFI.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_scribbly%20003_LOFI.jpg

with this next one I had a real epiphany.
I have read Anthony Ryder so often. I love his book for all the chapters which I don't get. It's like, I can comprehend what is said, but I know for sure that I have not yet fully grasped the meaning of the idea, I have not felt what the truth behind his concept is, sometimes.
I love that, because it means that the learning never stops. For a pro or a student aiming for his/her graduation this would suck, I guess, but for me it's being able to come back to a book I love and repeatedly get a new view on certain chapters over and over again.

So, one chapter which I never quite got was "Pathway of forms". I sort of understood what he described, but I have so often searched my drawing subjects for this pathway of forms and never really felt what it was about.
Yesterday I set up the magnifying mirror. Jesus, how many details! I was overwhelmed, it's not nearly half as detailed as the stuff I could see in the mirror. I mean I was trying to draw the interior of my room I could see as a reflection in my iris and pupil!

I wanted to draw the eye only, initially.

But then, I felt that the eye was not complete without its connection to the nose bridge. And the transition to the cheek bone. And the borderlands of nose wing and forehead. And each area I shaded suggested the next one, flowed into it. I had a bit of trouble keying it all in the right value, but all of a sudden it struck me: that is it!
The pathway of forms!
I was walking it!
That was such a joy. I might sound a bit stupid, here, especially considering the result...LOL
:scream:

but it felt really cool.

cya
Mu

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/detail%20001_LOFI.jpg

anandpg
01-14-2009, 04:14 AM
Hey Mu! Congrats on finding the pathway of form! :thumbsup: You are on the right track... way to go!:buttrock:
Btw, great sketches! I love the dreamy, rather impressionistic quality of your lines.. :)

yarabe
01-14-2009, 07:07 AM
Hi there Mu! Great sketches i'm going to pick up the pencil today and try a couple of them. Alenah's method sounds inspiring. Keep it up!

NR43
01-14-2009, 10:01 AM
It's an interesting topic, isn't it?
The interesting thing about it -imho- is that ALL forms are submitted to it, and on all levels.
A leaf to a twig to a branch to a tree trunk to another tree on the flank of a mountain to another mountain, etc...

You can even do a nice variation to the drawing exercises where you keep your pencil on the paper, by not looking at your paper. This is an excellent way to improve the sense for direction. I've done a lot of those blind sketches a couple of years ago, when we had some boxes stacked upon each other randomly, and they really helped me.
Another bonus of blind sketching is that the result is always funny :D

alicelefay
01-14-2009, 10:51 AM
Good work Mu!!
Too bad the gestures are so little, but from what I can see they are really cool...that line is super funny! Nice new method I need to try!

About the pathway of forms...ahhh I so envy you! I'm happy you finally was able to deeply understand it, and it's really noticeable in your work, this is fantastic!
I whish one day I will be able to do the same ^_^

Best luck Mu, and don't give up! :D

Mu
01-17-2009, 12:20 PM
hey,

yesterday I attended a gathering of all the parents of my daughter's school class.
I took a notebook with me - useful for both logging the evening and doing life drawings...:D

It was a bit awkward in the beginning, because we were sitting rather close together at one table, but soon I didn't mind staring at people's faces, and interestingly people didn't seem to mind, either.

EDIT: Oh, and Johan: I tried not looking at the paper in addition to not lifting up the pencil, but it drove me mad. I am not mentally strong enough for your Kung-Fu...:D

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/gathering%20005_LOFI.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/gathering%20004_LOFI.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/gathering%20003_LOFI.jpg

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/gathering%20002_LOFI.jpg

I concentrated on noses after a while, because I wasn't fast enough for whole faces.

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/gathering%20001_LOFI.jpg

I think I'll check out Loomis again, next, as AztcFireFlower recommended.

cya
Mu

ForzaInter
01-17-2009, 01:41 PM
Hey Murat, I have the same problem when sketching people at a public place, it's good to hear that you've managed to overcome this. Tell me please, how do you do that? :D

You have caught the gestures on the second picture nicely! It's not about details, so you don't have to worry too much about them. What I try to do when I sketch people's faces is try to concentrate on the specific features that make each person unique...Head shape, brows, shape of the nose, lips, wrinkles and folds so to give a general picture of the person's age, etc.

Keep up! :thumbsup:

Mu
01-17-2009, 06:38 PM
THanks ForzaInter,

about drawing people: I think I had it easier, because I knew them. Otherwise I just figured if I want to keep to my schedule of life drawing I can't afford to bother...:D

good hint about the characteristics. So many things to mind, though.

*sigh

Mu
01-18-2009, 06:19 PM
question in between:

if you look at the painting demo in this video:
http://www.sidebarnation.com/my_weblog/2009/01/another-behm-painting-demo.html

what kind of medium is this?
He's working from dark to light, so it's not watercolour. I am tempted to say it's oils, but the thinned(?) washes look very un-oily.

I am so looking for a traditional medium which would let me work from dark to light (other than heightening a drawing on toned paper with a white pastel pen).

The only thing I can think of to do that is oil, but I had another horrible oil experience today, so... alternatives?

EDIT: Hang on, it says acrylic on the original URL of the video.
*sigh

krispee
01-18-2009, 08:51 PM
hi mr mu, yes, definitely acrylics on that video, very good wasn`t it.....the only problem with acrylics is that they dry so fast being water based, except if you use them impasto of course....anyway, good work on your sketchbook, keep it up.....music`s good too! :applause:

kris

Intervain
01-19-2009, 02:08 AM
I like the nose studies Mu! Keep'em coming :D

yarabe
01-19-2009, 06:31 AM
Hi Mu! Nice progress, and i think it's very good that you did the live drawing. The only life drawing i dare to do is at home ;) Some how not confident enough to go out there.
The nose studies just look great!

alicelefay
01-19-2009, 09:16 AM
Mu :) don't be sad for the acrylics ^_^
There's a thing, a medium, that makes them dry slower, so that you can use them in a way similar to oils.
now go and create! ^_^

alenah
01-22-2009, 09:18 AM
hi Mu, nice to see your "line" experiments :)

about the video/technique - I cannot see very well in the video how the strokes/details look like, but - I would say - you can achieve similar smooth blending (while still keeping details) with oils too, either on paper or canvas (diluted with terpentine or other oils); personally, I prefere oil painting/blending much more for "blended" paintings, as oil painting lets/allows you "undoing" pretty much (in early stages, when not dry, you can completely "redefine" your painting, as you may wish; very flexible and "safe" technique, for me) .. but I do not use acrylics very much, so I do not want to /cant compare which technique is better ..
a.

Mu
01-22-2009, 09:44 PM
HI there,

krispee- The acrylics in these videos are special acrylics which can be re-wet to work into them again wet-in-wet. I think they are called interactive acrylics or something. There's a bit of info about them in his comments on the videos.

Magdalena! Thanks so much for showing up!

yarabe - life is too short for not trying the things you want to do! Just go and do it. Dance as if noone is looking!

alice- Lol, go create is the one motto of my life...:scream:

alenah - that was what I was thinking and then I tried to achieve similar effects with watersoluble oils, but failed miserably. I really wanna do it, though, and will give it another try. And then another one, and then another one.... you get the picture.

The only life drawing I did last week I can't or won't post as I did it after I took a bath and was too lazy to leave the bathtub and grabbed my notebook and did a... well... life drawing...:D

You'll have to wait a bit longer, I'm afraid.

cya
Mu

Mu
01-24-2009, 06:38 PM
one from imagination.

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_sketches012009%20001_LOFI.jpg

an environment from imagination and a quick mouth detail self portrait:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/sketches012009%20002_LOFI.jpg

alicelefay
01-25-2009, 08:34 AM
Your understanding of planes and values is getting deeper, I can see it in your last mouth drawing.
Good work! :D

Mu
01-25-2009, 01:22 PM
thank you alice!

another landscape gesture. This one was pretty hard to boil down to its main aspects as I didn't realize from the start how complex the elements were layered.

At working size (zoomed out, click for slightly bigger version):
http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_bw4.JPG (http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/bw4.JPG)


Ref I used was this one. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mythlady/540998219/sizes/m/)

SpiritDreamer
01-27-2009, 01:52 PM
HEY..MR MU...:)

I like those latest updates :thumbsup:
On that last landscape...Maybe some blending and softening in that sky and far horizon...will really add depth to the piece.Think distant, middle and forground, and how the values change from being closer in value on the value scale from light to dark in the distance, and more contrast of values/farther apart on the value scale as you get closer to the forground....Why not stick a couple of little figures in there also...doing that will add scale and a fosus point of interest..they don't have to be detailed, just an indication of gesture kind of thing...Just a thought..:)
Anyway, keep going, and keep up those self studies/portraits...They will capture your moods and feelings along the way in the process..:eek: :scream: ;)
TAKE CARE MR MU
Glenn

Mu
01-29-2009, 06:12 PM
Glenn, that hint about the distant, middle, foreground would have helped me sort out the complexity of the layers in this landscape when doing the gesture! I will try to keep this in mind for future gestures!

I am taking part in the "self portrait as creature" workshop! Fits in with my occasional selfs and might add a bit of spice to it. Also, a more refined piece might be fun, again.

here's my approach:

I'll turn my self into a snakeself.
I just took a reference photo. The lighting is pretty bad, but my flash (which I could have put on a light stand to go for a bit of varied lighting) only syncs with my analogue camera. As I don't have much time, quick equals nice.
I will have to kind of model/simulate the lighting. The ref will merely serve as a base for the portrait and resemblance.
Mixture balance: roughly 70% human+30% snake
snake features:

tongue
eyes
teeth
lip structure
scales

I will start with the portrait drawing, collect snake reference, add or merge the snake characteristics on a rather developed portrait and refine or unify from there.

Lighting will have to be heavily altered from the ref, but I don't really know wether to do this at the beginning, in the middle or at the end. Maybe towards the end I can play a bit with layers and masks to add a bit of light atmosphere? Don't know. Any suggestions?

Mu
01-29-2009, 06:25 PM
apart from that, I rediscovered my copy of "drawing dynamic heads" or whatever its english title is, by Burne Hogarth and remembered that you won't find anything as strictly geared towards structure as Hogarth.

So, instead of Loomis, I will tackle my structural issues with Hogarth for a while.

click for hi res

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_hogarth%20001_LOFI.jpg (http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/hogarth%20001_LOFI.jpg)


only available in lofi:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/hogarth%20002_LOFI.jpg

Mu
01-30-2009, 05:16 PM
first WIP in the Imaginative Figure Workshop

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/snake_001.JPG


From here, I will add the following features (outlines) from various references:

snake teeth
snake scales
merge my eyes and snake eye characteristics
tongue
merge my lips with scaled ones

Mu
01-30-2009, 05:22 PM
and structural Hogarth homework:

click for hi-res
http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_hogarth%20001_LOFI%7E0.jpg (http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/hogarth%20001_LOFI%7E0.jpg)

NR43
01-30-2009, 05:42 PM
Hey Mu great to see you are also in the workshop!
Looks like you're having a great start already :)

Mu
01-30-2009, 06:20 PM
Hey Johan!

thanks!

starting to morph the mouth.

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/snake_002.JPG

Mu
01-30-2009, 09:02 PM
http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/snake_005.JPG

I will keep the tongue for later on, because I want to add a fuzzy movement blur on the double tip which I noticed in quite a few reference photos and that is easier to paint than to draw, I guess.

Scaling my face was an amazing experience, because I feel I got a completeley new and deeper understanding of the planes of my face through this exercise!

SpiritDreamer
01-31-2009, 12:06 PM
HEY MR MU...:eek: :thumbsup: :)

I was thinking that for the scales and color of them, ..you might want to check out some of the works of BORIS,..He does the best scales and color on them better than any other artist out there that I know of. I know alot of his images have snakes and scaly creatures in them...Chech them out, will inspire you, and give you great ideas for your piece I think..:)
KEEP GOING MR MU...But don't scare yourself and everyone else to much in the process..Think of the children..LOL :scream: :D
TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
01-31-2009, 09:09 PM
Actually, this started out as a quick colour test, but now it could very well be that I just start with this.

I am trying to follow the workflow I have seen in all the Bobby Chiu and Mark Behm videos and go from really dark and then gradually add lighter and lighter layers.
My ciaroscuro I set up like this: my fictional light source (fictional in the sense that my ref only feature frontal flash light - no time to set up my external flash) comes in from the upper right hand side, so I'll put the lit side of the face agains dark background and the shade side against a light background.
Maybe I will let the cheeks (the "horizon" line) pick up a bit of that green light to give it a bit of backlit feeling.

Or I'll just trash the whole thing and start from somewhere else...:scream:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/snake_009.JPG

SpiritDreamer
02-01-2009, 12:05 AM
HEY MR MU ,..Here's a link to some of the works of BORIS..
HAVE FUN..:)

http://vallejo.ural.net/

TAKE CARE
Glenn

NR43
02-01-2009, 08:36 AM
I think the green bg isn't working too well.
Perhaps shift the hue to something closer to the foreground colors and then spice up the focal point with some complementary colors?

Mu
02-01-2009, 01:12 PM
Hi Johan,

while I was actually happy with the venomous green I realized I can't handle the hues in the face *at all*.

Man, how long will it be til I finally learn to handle colours? Shit.

Anyway.
Back to values.

Glenn,

from what I can see (and as far as I was able to focus on the snake scales with all the distractions by butts and curves and legs and whatnot of all the beautiful women's portraits in that gallery...:D ) he hardly paints the scales at all in the shade.
He just puts them in very crisp and clear where the highlight hits.
Interestingly, though, in a drawing of his, he leaves the highlight blank and puts the scales in where the shade is.

As I am doing a painting, I will put the scales in where the highlight is. Thanks for the tip!

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/snake_012.JPG

Mu
02-01-2009, 06:43 PM
added a tongue, a bit of blending:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/snake_013.JPG

yarabe
02-02-2009, 09:08 AM
Hi there Mu. This is looking good, the scales look much better. Curious about how it's going to look in color.

SpiritDreamer
02-02-2009, 11:41 AM
HEY MR MU..:)

You might try putting some oposing curves into that tonque.. will add to it's flickering movement.....THINK FLAME.:)
TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
02-02-2009, 03:55 PM
Yarabe,

no idea about the colours right now. Anymore.

:D

Glenn,
ah! That's a good hint. I was wondering about the tongue. My ref photos look particularly straight.

SpiritDreamer
02-02-2009, 05:29 PM
HEY MR MU..:)
For tonque reference, you might also want to check out some of the Monitor lizards...Komodo Dragon maybe... Their tonques are the same shape as a snake, except much longer, so you might be able to find a better view of a flickering tonque if you do a search for them.
I have a baby Ball Python..I've had him for about three years now..He was a foot long and as wide as a pencil when I got him, ..Now he is five feet long and as wide as my forarm..A super strong snake..I watch my hand turn red when he tightens up his grip when he's coiled around my arm..He's pretty mild mannered though, never tries to bite, except when I throw a rat into his lair..then he springs into stalk and attack mode, and I do mean spring...he's as fast as lightning when he strikes and coils around the rat, who never knew what hit him, or what..The rat stops breathing in less than thirty seconds. and then it's down the hatch time.. I call him MERLIN..:D
He has extrordinaryly BEAUTIFUL colors and markings...Golds, coppers, browns, blacks,whites, and even blues when he's placed in the shunshine..especally right after he sheds his old skin, and his new skin is still moist...those colors just vibrate and shimmer all over the place as he moves.
That's the reason I got him in the first place..I thought he would make a great model to work from and for doing color studies, opossing curves in motion studies.ect..:)
They live for about twenty years, so i'll have lots of time to study him, his colors, and motions ect...LOL :D
Anyway,MR MU.. Good Luck on your search for reference, and on your painting...I'm looking forward to seeing it's progress..:thumbsup: :)
TAKE CARE
Glenn

Mu
02-03-2009, 07:39 PM
Thanks for that little story about Merlin, man. That was quite a nice read. Snakes are fascinating - I remember I was so surprised how warm and soft they felt when I first touched a python.
The venomous ones scare the shit out of me, though...:D


I did these today to test how the first structural studies of my hogarth book feel when applying them to faces from imagination. Feels nice. Was fun. I got no idea what happened to those ears, though, :scream:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/doodle200902_2.JPG

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/doodle200902.JPG

NR43
02-04-2009, 05:28 AM
First one is really nice Mu!

I was thinking of your approach for the workshop and did a similar thing.
Started sketching my own head and then took one of the poses from these thumbs I had made and painted my head accordingly. Then I started deforming myself, LOL that was fun! (too early to post yet, as I've already used up 2 posts I can't post before my grayscale image is done)

So thanks for the inspiration :D

Mu
02-04-2009, 05:21 PM
You're welcome...:scream: Looking forward to seeing you deformed...:D

Mu
02-04-2009, 07:55 PM
two more heads from imagination

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/heads1.JPG


http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/heads2.JPG

yarabe
02-04-2009, 08:22 PM
wow the first head looks really angry! I like the colors you used they create a spooky mood.

Mu
02-06-2009, 04:12 PM
hi yarabe,

thanks for watching...:)

more structural exercises from the Hogarth book.

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/hogarth%20001_LOFI%7E1.jpg

Mu
02-06-2009, 09:10 PM
another Hogarth structure study:

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/hogarth%20001_LOFI%7E2.jpg

NR43
02-06-2009, 09:10 PM
Nice work sir!