CGTalk - Alias Acquisition by Autodesk Finally Complete.

KevinG_ADSK

01-10-2006, 11:26 PM

Hello All -

Today we closed the acquisition of Alias. Details below.

With the addition of Maya and MotionBuilder to Autodesks' 3ds Max and our existing suite of 3D authoring tools, we look forward to offering customers unparalleled choice among some of the industry’s best products for their 3D pipelines. By closely aligning these products with our editing, effects and color grading solutions we can offer our customers and prospects a more complete digital film workflow.

We will have our first public showing of all products and technology at Game Developers Conference.
(March 21 - 24, 2006 -- back in San Jose this year)

Best,
Kevin G.
++++++++++++++++++
Autodesk Completes Acquisition of Alias

Acquisition Advances Autodesk’s 3D Visualization and Animation Capabilities

SAN RAFAEL, Calif., Jan. 10, 2006 — Autodesk, Inc. (NASDAQ: ADSK) today announced that it has completed the acquisition of Alias for cash consideration of $197 million USD. On October 4, 2005, Autodesk announced a definitive agreement to acquire Alias – a leading developer of 3D graphics technology. This acquisition extends Autodesk’s 3D software leadership in the manufacturing and media and entertainment industries.

“We’re excited to welcome Alias customers, partners and employees to Autodesk,” said Carl Bass, COO of Autodesk. “The acquisition of Alias is about fulfilling Autodesk’s vision: To give design and creative professionals the best software tools for realizing their ideas. Customers are demanding the next generation of 3D photorealistic visualization and animation tools, and we are poised to deliver. In the future, 3D assets will be created once and shared across a range of industries, from automotive and architectural design to films and games. This will be enabled by Autodesk technology.”

The combined company has more than seven million users. Alias’ automotive and design customers include BMW, Boeing, General Motors, Mattel, Honda, Renault and Rollerblade. Alias’ media and entertainment customers include major film studios and game developers, such as Industrial Light & Magic, DreamWorks SKG, Weta Digital, Sony Pictures Imageworks, Electronic Arts, Midway Games, Nintendo and SEGA. Many of these customers use both Autodesk and Alias products, providing an opportunity for the combined company to deliver a more comprehensive suite of solutions.

Alias’ products, technology and services will be integrated with Autodesk’s Manufacturing Solutions and Media & Entertainment divisions and Autodesk’s Consulting organization. Alias StudioTools – software for design tasks ranging from 2D sketches to production models – adds new design and visualization capabilities to Autodesk’s manufacturing portfolio. The acquisition also grows Autodesk’s media and entertainment portfolio with Alias’ Maya software – an Academy Award-winning application, Alias MotionBuilder – 3D character animation software, and FBX – a widely used format for the exchange and use of 3D content.

Autodesk plans to continue the development and support of Alias products and services. The combined company’s research and development priority is to link Autodesk’s and Alias’ existing products, delivering increased interoperability and improved data management. In the manufacturing industry, this will give users an extended workflow into conceptual design, as part of Autodesk’s design-to-manufacturing solution. In the media and entertainment industry, many customers already use products from both Autodesk and Alias. As such, they will benefit from a streamlined workflow for digital film, broadcast and game projects.

Several Alias management team members have joined Autodesk, including Dave Wharry and Michel Besner. Dave Wharry, formerly Alias Vice President of Global Sales and Marketing, is now Vice President of Sales for Autodesk’s Media & Entertainment Division. Michel Besner, formerly Alias Vice President of Business Development – Emerging Markets, is now leading product management for Autodesk’s Media & Entertainment Division 3D product portfolio. Alias’ former global headquarters in Toronto, Canada remains as a key development center for Autodesk.

Fourth Quarter Fiscal 2006 Business Outlook

Autodesk is reaffirming its previously issued standalone fourth quarter fiscal 2006 guidance. Excluding the impact of the Alias acquisition, net revenues are expected to be between $405 and $415 million and earnings are expected to be between $0.34 and $0.36 per diluted share.

Including Alias results for the remainder of the fourth quarter of fiscal 2006, Autodesk expects net revenues to be between $409 and $419 million. Due to the impact of in-process R&D expenses, amortization of intangibles, and equity-based compensation expenses, earnings per share are currently expected to be in the range of $0.31 to $0.33 on a GAAP basis. Excluding these items non-GAAP EPS is currently expected to be in the range of $0.33 to $0.35 in the fourth quarter. As previously communicated, Autodesk believes that Alias will be slightly accretive to non-GAAP earnings per share in the twelve months following the acquisition. Autodesk will provide updated guidance for fiscal 2007 including Alias in conjunction with the release of its fourth quarter financial results.

More information on Autodesk’s acquisition of Alias can be found at www.autodesk.com/autodeskandalias (http://www.autodesk.com/autodeskandalias).

Safe Harbor Statement

This press release contains forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties, including statements regarding the impact of the acquisition on Autodesk’s product offerings and the performance of its business, and the expected impact on Autodesk’s net revenues and EPS in the fourth quarter of fiscal 2006. Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially include the following: difficulties encountered in integrating merged businesses; costs associated with the acquisition, estimated costs of the deal, restructuring charges, and equity-based compensation expenses related to the acquisition; whether certain market segments grow as anticipated; the competitive environment in the software industry and competitive responses to the proposed acquisition; and whether the company can successfully develop and sell new products and integrate existing products.

Further information on potential factors that could affect the financial results of Autodesk are included in the company's report on Form 10-K for the year ended January 31, 2005 and Form 10-Q for the quarter ended Oct 31, 2005 which are on file with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

About Autodesk

Autodesk, Inc. (NASDAQ: ADSK) is wholly focused on ensuring that great ideas are turned into reality. With over seven million users, Autodesk is the world's leading software and services company for the manufacturing, building, infrastructure, wireless data services and media and entertainment fields. Autodesk’s solutions help customers create, manage and share their data and digital assets more effectively. As a result, customers turn ideas into competitive advantage by becoming more productive, streamlining project efficiency and maximizing profits.

Founded in 1982, Autodesk is headquartered in San Rafael, California. For additional information about Autodesk, please visit www.autodesk.com (http://www.autodesk.com/).

Autodesk, Alias, FBX, Maya, MotionBuilder and StudioTools are registered trademarks or trademarks of Autodesk, Inc., in the USA and/or other countries. All other brand names, product names, or trademarks belong to their respective holders. Autodesk reserves the right to alter product offerings and specifications at any time without notice, and is not responsible for typographical or graphical errors that may appear in this document.

© 2006 Autodesk, Inc. All rights reserved.

rblitz7

01-10-2006, 11:28 PM

"The acquisition of Alias is about fulfilling Autodesk's vision..."

idk but this kind of sounds evil...:curious:

mushroomgod

01-10-2006, 11:28 PM

"We're excited to welcome Alias customers, partners and employees to Autodesk,"

ahhhh, give us a hug.

mustan9

01-10-2006, 11:30 PM

Does it now mean that if I'm a 3D Studio Max artist that I can now apply for jobs where they are seeking Maya artists??? :D

ChewyPixels

01-10-2006, 11:33 PM

Autodesk: "My quest for complete 3d world domination has begun! Mwah, ha, ha, haaa!!" :D

ukyo

01-10-2006, 11:34 PM

you guys feel that, right there in your chest that liitle thing riiight there. yup thats part of our souls dieing in unison

chrisWhite

01-10-2006, 11:36 PM

you guys feel that, right there in your chest that liitle thing riiight there. yup thats part of our souls dieing in unison
ROTFL, that's one way to put it.

sphere

01-10-2006, 11:37 PM

I'm surprised the share price hasn't gone up more. Maybe it's a good buy atm :curious:

Does it now mean that if I'm a 3D Studio Max artist that I can now apply for jobs where they are seeking Maya artists??? :D

Haha, quite possibly. :)

ACantarel

01-10-2006, 11:38 PM

Don´t worry about the software, it´s still the artist who´s doing the nice pictures and animations ;)

André

MDB101

01-10-2006, 11:43 PM

we Joined forces! yes! now welcome mayans! Give us a hug!

Omita

01-10-2006, 11:51 PM

Just to pre-empt the 200,000 posts likely to follow...

I recon that autodesk's next 3D app will be called Maxmaya,

no wait, Mayamax

still, I do like the sound of Maxmaya.....

on second thoughts, Mayamax does sound cool...

Nah... Maya Max'd

If you can't beat them, let them buy you.

blkmaJic

01-10-2006, 11:57 PM

Maya 2 the Max ... or MayaMaximised

Bonedaddy

01-10-2006, 11:57 PM

you guys feel that, right there in your chest that liitle thing riiight there. yup thats part of our souls dieing in unison

You mean that's not a heart attack?

Oh wait, yes it is.

Ow.

BillSpradlin

01-10-2006, 11:58 PM

I die a little inside everytime I read one of your posts Bonedaddy.

csDevil

01-10-2006, 11:59 PM

I've just recieved their email.
scary, eh? I'd thought it would take longer to the conclusion of the deal. These guys really AREN'T messing around.

probably there will still be separate softwares for a considerably time. So, no reason to panic!

(yes, I'm trying to convince myself)

Capt.Joosh

01-11-2006, 12:01 AM

Mayans! I call to you my brothers have a stout heart! even as the enemy surrounds us!

itsallgoode9

01-11-2006, 12:15 AM

"Maya 2 the Max" that sounds like a logical followup to 3d Studio Max....always that that was such a dorky name; kinda like the Nintendo Ultra 64...bleah I am actually REALLY excited about this. I think I may be the only one in the world though :blush:

TheUnkind

01-11-2006, 12:18 AM

Feels like... there's gonna be a new 3d software competitor evolving....

Agamemnwn

01-11-2006, 12:21 AM

as a maya user i first thought , there goes maya . now i have to learn max instead. but it would be good if maya got the plugins max has . those max users sure have some sweet poly modelling plugins :D anyway. hope for the best and i hope i dont have to leave my sweet maya which i am so attached to.

ThommyBoy

01-11-2006, 12:23 AM

Ya Know, those natural horsehair brushes have always been so superior to those camelhair ones. I just really feel that if you paint with horsehair you shouldn't be painting professionally, since only amateurs use those.

Tongue in Cheek :o)

Settle down Beavis, as this is good for both Maya and Max users.

Uh so much for lite beer though, OUCH

Jozvex

01-11-2006, 12:31 AM

I think Autodesk bought Alias just to get back at them for adding a teapot primitive to Maya that had fur!!

Bonedaddy

01-11-2006, 12:35 AM

I die a little inside everytime I read one of your posts Bonedaddy.

Funny, I die a little bit every time I write one of them.

You'd think I'd have stopped by now.

kuman

01-11-2006, 12:57 AM

DDS

01-11-2006, 12:59 AM

W E L C O M E
http://membres.lycos.fr/dreamdesigner/coses/I_wanna_hug_you.jpg

ulb

01-11-2006, 01:14 AM

6foot5

01-11-2006, 01:16 AM

maybe i missed it but i dont think i read any thing to reassure me that neither one of the 3d apps will be binned. I would just like to say to mr Autodesk that if you are going to shelve one, please make it maya...(i know more max shortcut keys)

:)

lovisx

01-11-2006, 01:19 AM

3d studio MAYA! can't wait.

UrbanFuturistic

01-11-2006, 01:21 AM

Since when has it ever been so simple? The Maxers would complain that the Maya code had sullied their perfect program while the Mayans would claim the Max code had sullied their perfect program :thumbsup:

Of course, both sides would secretly use elements of the other codebase and tools but never admit it even to their girlfriends. :)

As an asides, I think it will be called Ninja Render Studio Monkey.

regards, Paul

sburgoon

01-11-2006, 01:49 AM

In other news, Kia aquires Ferrari and Hyundai takes over Lamborghini...

(Please note, before I get flamed into oblivion, I'm not saying 3dsmax is bad. It's very good for what it is. They are just very, very different products, and they serve a very different client base, just like my exagerrated analogy... but yeah, I don't know, something about that just makes me very, very sad)

eirenicon

01-11-2006, 01:51 AM

The Maxers would complain that the Maya code had sullied their perfect program while the Mayans would claim the Max code had sullied their perfect program :thumbsup:

Max? A perfect program? Hah! I've been using it for years but it still manages to frustrate me at least once a session :p

Funny, I die a little bit every time I write one of them.

I think you died a long time ago, Mr. "Bonedaddy". The Bureau of Reanimation would like to have a word with you.

Stahlberg

01-11-2006, 01:56 AM

I think it will be called Ninja Render Studio Monkey

Or perhaps "Ultimate 3D of Ultimate Destiny"

laureato di arte

01-11-2006, 01:58 AM

i dont know how i feel to be honest... im kinda anxious, i have really fallen in love with maya, her interface, the way she responds to my subtle key strokes. The way those menus apear at just the right time on the screen. I have never used 3dsmax so i cant judge it or its users to be honest, i hear it is a good program so hats off to its developers and users for mastering it, but to be honest im kinda scared. What will these mean for those who have bronze silver and gold memberships with maya? what will this mean for those cool books that they publish.:sad: Im scared who will comfort me?

laureato di arte

01-11-2006, 02:03 AM

one thing i must say is that I realy hope alias keep the name of maya, there was something magical and smooth about the name alias maya, not meaning to start a flame war, but i prefer it to the name autodesk 3ds max, kinda sounds to technical and not artistic, if you know what i mean. Kinda like having a daughter called Karida Xavier, and then she gets married to some guy called egbert haralambos, and then her name becomes karida egbert haralambos, maybe its late so im speaking rubbish , im kinda tired but cant sleep, exam period does that to me.

+disciple+

01-11-2006, 02:15 AM

we Joined forces! yes! now welcome mayans! Give us a hug!

mwaa hahahahaaaa!

Chris Bacon

01-11-2006, 02:17 AM

ARRRGGGHHHH!....its like a small part of me has been ripped out....:shrug:

but you never know...hopfully the next verion of maya/max/maxmaya?...will end up being realy good...hopfully work out some off those bugs

Projectkmo

01-11-2006, 02:31 AM

RIP - Maya

/cry

well, time for the borg to assimilate me.......

/crys more

mike0006

01-11-2006, 02:33 AM

I sure hope they keep the two different software packages separate. People like max, because it's max, and people like maya, because it's maya. Also, I can't imagine how bad the bugs could be if they rushed a version that merged the two. They'd be patching that thing up the ying yang.

JeffPalmer

01-11-2006, 02:38 AM

what would be insane is a unified 3d prog where you can instantly switch ui's, hotkeys, etc to match either max or maya, but under the hood it was a rewrite with the best of each prog. then maybe, just maybe the fued would finally be over ;).

I dont know about you, but i dont want Maya crashing ever 30 minutes, and have horrible open gl view ports. :D

Im not to happy about this, but ill take it in strides. Competition makes the market thrive and i hope Avid, and NewTek can step up to the plate and show us some muscle to the giant that now is Autodesk. Autodesk just better watch out and not change maya to much otherwise they will get some PISSED customers.

I still cant see a company producting 2 competing 3d applications, but well see what happens.

rebo

01-11-2006, 02:55 AM

Those touting names for the next product are being unrealistic, there will be no instance merging of product lines. In reality what you will see is a diverging of products not converging, max will be aimed towards the game market and maya the film market. Motionbuilder is imo a dead product it has no real future as a seperate package and its technology will be harvested into both max and maya, (perhaps with FBX being the bridging technology).

All of you guys are assuming that maya is the product that is somehow blackmarked, this isnt the case Autodesk doesnt really have any loyalty to either product over the other.

Furthermore what you most definitely will see is price increases in europe for the maya product line to bring it up to max EUvsNA levels. This will really suck for europeans.

Whilst this seems like bad news all round it does create opportunities for other players to compete for the centre ground. XSI has a great reputation for film work but with coups like being the basis for HL2 modelling it has shown its ability as an all round performer.

Im not sure wether side-fx is a floated company but if they are their shares are worth a punt, bound to be the next take over target by somebody.

Bonedaddy

01-11-2006, 03:02 AM

This thread is like a howling pit of madness. It's just a PR announcement. Lordy. Nothing y'all can do about it anyway, so stop fretting. It's bad for your health.

HieSpike

01-11-2006, 03:24 AM

This is just great! ;) Even though people here are saying that they won't be merging the two softwares, I really believe that they will most likely do so. Trying to integrate Maya into Autodesks suite of tools is going to be a nightmare for them, hence they will try to incoroprate Maya into Max (hey why not autoCAD as well), combining the two(three) to create something new...let see, "Autodesk 3D" Then they will be able to streamline it with Smoke and all the rest and you can do everything in one place, one GIANT software..how about "AUTOFILM" It does it all!

But really, they won't be able to do this...they will just mess it all up and have a lot of parts that don't work together. Oh did I mention that they will make Maya files proprietary so that you cannot open them in other applications (such as PolyTrans).

BUT GUESS WHAT EVERYONE...it's o.k. Beacuse you can be like me and use Lightwave 3D. O, oh....I've said to much...I'm outta here.:bounce:

Ollarin

01-11-2006, 03:28 AM

Bye bye Alias! :(

Hmm...All the 3Ds Max users have a very evil grin to them now.... :argh:

Rebeccak

01-11-2006, 03:35 AM

Anyone got a tissue? *sigh* It was good while it lasted. :)

RobertoOrtiz

01-11-2006, 03:47 AM

Quote from Star Wars that I think is appropiate:

"Obi-Wan (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000027/): I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. "

-R

[nitin design]

01-11-2006, 03:53 AM

Let the mayhem begin :D I hope my Maya gets treated with love and respect :sad:
Let's see what happens to prices in general and Europe in particular!

http://primates.ximian.com/%7Efederico/misc/brueghel-death-thumb.jpg

FloydBishop

01-11-2006, 04:29 AM

We will have our first public showing of all products and technology at Game Developers Conference.
(March 21 - 24, 2006 -- back in San Jose this year)

Best,
Kevin G.

Thanks for the post. I am wondering about the continuation of the programs Alias has helped make possible in the past. I live in the north east, and I have enjoyed going to Maya events in the greater New York and Boston area, hosted by Great Eastern Technology. I am wondering if Autodesk will continue this kind of community interaction? I am also wondering what Autodesks plans for new versions of Maya are? Will we continue to see updates along the same release schedule as we have in the past?

Again, thanks for posting here. It's nice to see.

Technofreak

01-11-2006, 04:32 AM

Autodesk Maxa :)

hehehe

@lias

01-11-2006, 04:36 AM

so ..its done:sad:

Grooveholmes

01-11-2006, 04:48 AM

"The acquisition of Alias is about fulfilling Autodesk's vision: To give design and creative professionals the best software tools for realizing their ideas."

Yeah, they can only do that buy purchasing someone elses engineering.

Kris-S

01-11-2006, 05:01 AM

Alias, poor Maya!--I knew
him, Autodesk; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent
fancy: he hath borne me on his back a thousand times;
and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! my gorge
rises at it. Here hung those tools that I have stroked I know
not how oft. Where be your gibes now? your gambols?
your songs? your flashes of merriment, that were wont to
set the table on a roar? Not one now, to mock your
own grinning? quite chap-fallen? Now, get you to my
lady's chamber, and tell her, let her paint an inch thick, to
this favour she must come; make her laugh at that.

I hope he never dies

tmr232

01-11-2006, 05:18 AM

It feels so safe using Blender at such times...

Open Source rocks!

KOKE

01-11-2006, 05:32 AM

Everybody hail MAXYA !!

:D

send2raj

01-11-2006, 05:33 AM

:cry: Late maya :cry: ...now is it going to be called Maxaya or Maxa.

:banghead: will wait & watch what's it going to be.

SirRon

01-11-2006, 05:38 AM

Well now that it's official I guess the Maya forum is going to be called Autodesk Maya right above Autodesk 3ds Max.

I don't know about you guys, but I think Maximum Maya sounds kinda cool.... or Maya Studio? Whatever. I'm still freaking clueless on what's going to happen lol :eek:

ZeroNeuro

01-11-2006, 05:39 AM

I have been a Maya user for quite a while now. While I do understand that the aquisition does not mean that Autodesk is going to 'weed out' the product line for a greater market share for Max... it does make me think about the possibility.

Aquisitions by large conglamerates have always been a bad thing at heart. To screw up a product by making it "more compatible" with the host company's products is a travesty that I think we can all look at and dread. Maya is fine. Max is fine. If they keep these lines as a SEPERATE entity then I think the added funding for research and development can only be a good thing.

However, I as many of you, still remember when Apple bought Shake. The discontinued support in Windows was horrible. A bad move.

What assurances can Autodesk honestly give us about the continued and unhampered growth of Maya? I would like to know some absolutes. Some actual answers on just this topic. The only thing we have gotten from Autodesk seems to be a PR statement that really does not mean that much.

OK Softimage. The ball is now in your court. Start actively developing, or work directly with Pixar to develop, an XSI Renderman solution that is production viable. Perhaps an XSItoR? Renderman Artist Tools for XSI?

To be frank, I am not sure that any of us Maya users feel that secure in our chosen platform at this time. We will see.

Ritchie L. Roberts
Lighting Artist
Omation Animation Studios

(My opinions do not represent the opinions of my employer.)

By the way I use XSI at work and don't get me wrong, XSI is a wonderful package. I just prefer Renderman over Mental Ray for most things :)

dejawolf

01-11-2006, 05:58 AM

got a letter from autodesk today.

seems like the first thing they're going to do is enable people to open maya scenes in max, and vice versa.

Dear Autodesk Customer,

On January 10, 2006 Autodesk completed the acquisition of Alias. We are excited about the new opportunities this brings for the combined company and our customers. Over the next few months, we will integrate the Alias business into Autodesk's Manufacturing Solutions and Media & Entertainment divisions and Autodesk's Consulting organization. Our priority is to make this transition seamless, ensuring that you can continue to create brilliant work with our expanded solutions.

We are dedicated to keeping you informed of the combined company's integration efforts. If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact your existing Autodesk and Alias representatives. We have also posted further information about the acquisition online at http://www.autodesk.com/autodeskandalias (http://i.nl03.net/ltr0/?_m=1n.00fa.4.so05q04snz.3).

Autodesk's vision is to give you the best software tools for realizing your ideas. This acquisition extends our 3D visualization, animation and design capabilities, allowing us to offer you a broader set of products and services from a single source. Our customers' future holds greater creativity and faster time-to-market and project completion, with less overall time from the conception of an idea to its realization.

I would like to reassure you that Autodesk plans to continue the development and support of both Alias and Autodesk products and services. The combined company's first area of R&D focus is on linking existing products to deliver better interoperability and data management. In the manufacturing design industry, this will give users an extended workflow into conceptual design as part of our design-to-manufacturing solution. In the media and entertainment industry, users will be able to benefit from a streamlined workflow for computer-generated animation, film and game projects.

As you may know, Autodesk is the world's leading design software and services company, with more than seven million users in the manufacturing, infrastructure, building, media and entertainment and wireless data services fields. Our solutions help customers create, manage and share digital assets more effectively. Alias is a leader in 3D graphics technology. Alias customers will benefit from Autodesk's nearly $300 million in R&D spending, while gaining access to new and complementary solutions.

We thank you for your business and reiterate our commitment to bringing you creative solutions of the highest caliber. Welcome to the new Autodesk.

Sincerely,

Carol Bartz
Chairman and CEO
Autodesk, Inc.

maybe they'll call this new software "merge"

the_zed_axis

01-11-2006, 06:14 AM

i started with 3ds max 3...the first 3d software that i ever used and while it was easy to learn it was a nightmare to use...frequent crashes and with each update the various plugins that seemed sooo cool would result in compatibility issues..then someone suggest maya and it was love at first sight ...it had everything built in ...cloth,fur and a very excellent renderer

I cant imagine what doing 3d would be like without maya :( even though i still (HAVE) to use max for the odd project.... gimme maya anyday...

3ds max has always relied on plugins to be COOOL(afterburn,facial studio,dreamscape,CAT to name a few) and now with the acquistion of maya ...it now has the best plugin money could ever buy

I KNOW that maya IS going to end ITS just a matter of time:(

mlmiller1983

01-11-2006, 06:25 AM

Why some people so gloom and doom. Until Autodesk announces that they are discontinuing Maya, there is no reason to panic. Lets just hope that doesn't happen but then again its probably inevitable.

DimitrisLiatsos

01-11-2006, 06:28 AM

ahhhh, give us a hug.

Hahaaaaaaa....:scream:....:thumbsup:

We are the world ....we are the people.......everybody sing now.....:bounce:.

Mio

01-11-2006, 06:31 AM

:D

hey!!! guys~~~

3d packcages is not everything!!!
the most important thing is you, the artist!
u will always got a good tools for yourself .

Pyke

01-11-2006, 06:35 AM

RockinAkin

01-11-2006, 06:53 AM

Thats it... im switching to Poser.

the_zed_axis

01-11-2006, 07:04 AM

Thats it... im switching to Poser.

hahahaha

i would suggest xsi .....if maya ends then it IS going to be xsi:) all the way baby

Fahad

01-11-2006, 07:18 AM

Parsec3d

01-11-2006, 07:43 AM

Nah... Maya Max'd

If you can't beat them, let them buy you.

mmmmm CADutoMayAX

nice :)

bring it on....

mlmiller1983

01-11-2006, 07:52 AM

i would suggest xsi .....if maya ends then it IS going to be xsi:) all the way baby

Who needs maya when there is XSI.

cpan

01-11-2006, 08:00 AM

Who needs maya when there is XSI.

all the major Film studios and other several 100.000k users.

kabojnk

01-11-2006, 08:05 AM

jcorpe

01-11-2006, 08:06 AM

How about M2?

reelmesh

01-11-2006, 08:22 AM

oh no, this sounds like typical Microsoft behavior.....

World domination and market monopoly, where did I heard this before?

Next thing you know they could be buying maybe Avid or even Maxon (Just in case)...

I hope they don't ruin Maya, it's such a great program.

I wish this could have been the other way arround, Alias buying Autodesk, kind of like Adobe buying Macromedia (which I think was great).

Oh well, let's wait and see, I'm not keeping my hopes high. :sad:

mlmiller1983

01-11-2006, 08:23 AM

^^^ A lot of places use XSI. Anyway, I think the whole thing about Autodesk acquiring Alias is being catastrophized just a bit. Although, I will say that it looks like Autodesk is looking to assimilate any competition.

Now that you think of it is kind of scary that one company now owns a huge chunk of the CG software market. But the plus side is that this will drive the other companies to make better software in order to compete though one in particular already has and the others have catching up to do.

OggieBoogie

01-11-2006, 08:32 AM

Honestly...I dont see why this thread is being plugged...we've been there done that.

Cheers!

deepcgi

01-11-2006, 08:40 AM

let's face it. Autodesk can do whatever they want and we have to like it. Try getting a job in games, film, architectural visualization or industrial design without wearing the scarlet A. For heaven's sake, please don't think about making games with Maya or films with Max!

bow down, kiss the ring, write the check.

thatoneguy

01-11-2006, 08:54 AM

I just want Autodesk to give us the Giant Finger, scrap Max and Maya and create a new program with an entirely rethought interface. Put to death all of this ridiculous "boo hoo I memorized Ctrl + Z for Maya/Max and am terrified of the inevitable demise of both.

This comment is directed specifically at the plethora of Maya users who seem to think that Autodesk favors one of its bastard children over another.

They bought ALIAS cos they wanted MAYA. Isnt that sinking in? Hell, VW bought Bugatti and then developed the Veyron. Was that a step backwards?

No they bought Alias because they wanted StudioTools. A gaping hole in the Autodesk continuous pipeline of product design.

bazuka

01-11-2006, 08:58 AM

So, does any1 know what will really happend with Maya??? It will be nice that some1 from Autodesk answer on this question!!! Users must know what will happend with their baby...

sorry for eng...

reelmesh

01-11-2006, 08:59 AM

I think that's a possibility as well.
Just look at Microsoft (yep, again), just because they are one of the biggest (and best selling) doesn't mean they're the best, at least not in the OS market.

dilipale

01-11-2006, 09:03 AM

Seeing how Autodesk is so big, maybe they could think about lowering the price of Maya!
That would be nice.

Go on, you know you want to.

living_for_cg

01-11-2006, 09:07 AM

welcome to the real 3D world Maya!:thumbsup: Cant wait to see what will happen:bounce:

Davain

01-11-2006, 09:10 AM

Seeing how Autodesk is so big, maybe they could think about lowering the price of Maya!
That would be nice.

I hope the prices wan't go up, especially in europe

Kabab

01-11-2006, 09:15 AM

My personal opionion is that the XSI's guys are shitting themselves...

Autodesk now has there hands on the post popular 3D software used in production work and they have the 2D compositing side covered really well, they have a end to end solution.

All the major verticles such as Games, Architecture, Visulisation is Autodesk's now as well, lets face it the majority of this work is done in Maya or Max oo whats left for XSI?

If Autodesk continue the development of Maya and praying to god they improve it life will be hard for XSI..

You have to remember Autodesk is a 2 billion dollar company thats ALOT of finanical backing.

I personally thing prices are going to go up... If you compare Maya to say Solidworks, Pro/E, Catia, Inventor etc its obvious to see for the level of technology and market size its under priced.

Agamemnwn

01-11-2006, 09:23 AM

They bought ALIAS cos they wanted MAYA. Isnt that sinking in? Hell, VW bought Bugatti and then developed the Veyron. Was that a step backwards?

they bought alias to get studiotools and motionbuilder as well as maya. applied logistics. find a market that your dont have a share and fill a need. alias had that with studiotools so they got on an even plane with pro engineer and solidworks for us engineers as well on a design level as it only had autocad. Motionbuilder and maya for film and animation purposes as XSI was getting more into play. so basically as i said they bought alias to get the whole package to get into more markets and get more of the pie :D

ninjacore

01-11-2006, 09:24 AM

http://www.forumspile.com/Misc-Internet_Serious_Business.jpg

all these maxmaya - mayamax names SUCK ! will you stop that!

dotTom

01-11-2006, 09:56 AM

I know it's a (very) small thing, but I'll miss the logo. Alias's branding has always been more artistic and human friendly than the uber-corp-borgorite Autodesk.

dalmanna

01-11-2006, 10:16 AM

This might have been said already but 3d world mag said that maya will stay as maya and that auto desk is just gonna run both products max for the low end and maya for the high end (they didn't mean that in a bad way max users just in terms of user base) so hopfully it might just me its gonna bring maya and combustion closer and stuff like that.

metroeast

01-11-2006, 10:19 AM

I am not so worried about the 2 software packages being integrated. I am concerned that there is now less competition in the high-end animation software arena. It will drive up the price of software. I like what both packages had to offer. Each had a niche in different areas.

There is always Softimage, Lightwave and others, but these are two heavy hitters that are going to make it harder for those smaller companies.

Epopisces

01-11-2006, 10:45 AM

Seeing how Autodesk is so big, maybe they could think about lowering the price of Maya!
That would be nice.

Go on, you know you want to.

If I recall one of the reasons Maya sold to autodesk is because it was so underpriced on the market. Like Kabab said, it was one of the cheapest on the market, undermining their profits.

However, i DO like the idea of opening Max files in Maya and vice versa

Naseem

01-11-2006, 11:09 AM

Not panicking yet. But I must say that if Autodesk develop Max to read Mayas scene files and hold that support from Maya to read Max scenes. Then I will start panicking. Research and development is more effective in a competition between companies just like technology advance very fast during a war metaphorically. For now Autodesk has no option but to keep Alias customers happy or they will lose valuable clients. But in the long run they will eventually reform Maya to there goal in the market and it may have a profound effect on the artists but companies usually develop software’s to the artists needs. Autodesk reminds me of the Borg! They will keep assimilating software’s and the artist will learn to adapt, who knows maybe Avid is the target.

If Autodesk is a Borg its words for Maya clients will something like:
prepare to be assimilated in Max resistance is futile.

loocas

01-11-2006, 11:22 AM

As an asides, I think it will be called Ninja Render Studio Monkey.

I tried so hard... SO HARD to resist trying to react on this thread, but MAN! :D
YOU F' ROCK! :buttrock:

It almost made me piss myself from laughter :D

--------------------------------------------

Yeah... aaaaaanyways, Autodesk aquires Alias... Oks... :surprised So what?! :curious:

As seen from the posts here, some take it as is and talk way off topic here :D which is cool, but the others still don't get it :rolleyes:

1) No matter what, you ain't gonna make a shit difference to this...

2) I actually think it's a good thing! There's always competition. For example the fast growing Luxology team, there's still Softimage, NewTek, Maxon etc... etc... and therefore merging those two giants, oh boy!, I'm so excited! I'm gonna gain access to both of those great apps. BUT WITH THE CHOICE OF A WORKFLOW AND UI I LIKE! Ain't it cool?! :thumbsup: C'mon maya dudes, admit it finally, it's freakin' cool! Maya and max won't die, not in the near future anyway, so what the F' are you scared of?! Be happy! More job opportunities!

I can even see IL&M, Weta and many many others using Max in their pipes! :bounce:

ok... where's my reel? *sending a demo to IL&M, just in case*

sergioKomic

01-11-2006, 11:31 AM

In other news, Kia aquires Ferrari and Hyundai takes over Lamborghini...

Dude that realy happened in the 80s when FIAT bought Ferrari....

Things like that happen:banghead:

DrFx

01-11-2006, 11:32 AM

Oh, boy. This is just gonna be another thread of whining and glooming for all the fankids out there and I will have no part of it... oh, wait... doh! :banghead:

basquiat

01-11-2006, 11:33 AM

Hi,

Never thought my first post on CGTalk would be in this forum, but...

Huge amounts of money have been invested in Alias education centers. Huge amounts of money have been paid by individuals for that knowledge. Three BASIC courses at the Alias training center in my city cost a total of 7 thousand EUR. And that's excluding books & DVDs. Get that, and buy Maya (you'll eventually have to quit using PLE if you intend to make a living), and I don't know about you, but if you're a student that practically leaves you begging for food. Unless you're rich, of course. Look at the Gnomon DVD titles and look at their school fees. I'm talking about people (worldwide) who are getting Alias education or who have recently finished, and who are paying thousand of dollars. It might not be much compared to Autodesk corporate value, or sales, but if something happened in terms of shutting down either one of the competitive products, I would be the first to come knocking on their door asking for all my invested money back.

Also, I don't understand why some people think because Autodesk already has Max that it is pro Max/against Maya. This is the market share for the previous year: Alias (33%), Autodesk (22%) and Avid/Softimage (15%). In the light of this data, that kind of opinion wouldn't be valid. Maya is film & broadcast oriented and Max is game industry oriented, and I seriously hope that if any changes occur its just gonna be further polarization in these two areas.

Well, that's all I wanted to say, hope it makes some sense :blush:

Azmodan Kijur

01-11-2006, 11:35 AM

DimitrisLiatsos

01-11-2006, 11:39 AM

That aside ...we have spaggeti today and Jackie Chan movie ....:scream:

:bounce: ...i am going back to work now with my Ninja Render Studio Monkey beta ! :scream:

Leonard

01-11-2006, 11:40 AM

I leave the scene for a little while to pursue my CA and come back to find this. I have never used the software involved much, except at my friends and that class, but this sounds vile even to me.

I have to mention that it seems like their PR isn't working very well. Kevin chimed in on the first page and then was to be heard no more. Worse, he simply repeated the news piece. That's PR with a difference! Perhaps I'm just bitter, but that looked pretty pointless from where I'm sitting.

Just to clarify, Kevin didn't actually post on this thread. He posted the news as a separate thread and I merged them together. If it seems a little discontinued, it's because they are two threads merged, and isn't actually Kevin's fault.

Cheers,

Leo

SergeAstahov

01-11-2006, 11:42 AM

Good one loocas that made me laugh LOL muhahahahaha.
Anyhow i think that nothing bad will happen to Maya. Just remind you that Autodesk will spend 300 million for R&D doesn't that tell you anything? - "Alias customers will benefit from Autodesk's nearly $300 million in R&D spending"? So as they said that they will continue to support all the Alias products and if there is a better transaction between Max and Maya, well i'm happy for that. I hope they take all the advantages from both of the programs and make those better.

sergioKomic

01-11-2006, 11:43 AM

Seriously, if they dont call it:

Ninja Render Studio Monkey

I m gonna go nuts...

(Leonard allready hates me for being in the bonanza, so I can have fun in other threads right?)

Awara

01-11-2006, 12:09 PM

would it be MAXA.............:curious:

Mr A

Eraq

01-11-2006, 12:38 PM

I dont care!!!

I use ms paint...na na na na na nana

:beer:

michael-olszak

01-11-2006, 12:47 PM

Autodesk is becoming quite the “BIG DADDY” in the industry.

A lot of users are used to Maya’s or 3DS’s workflow. So it would be very confusing and maybe super frustrating for them if Autodesk will merge the two into one major package.

Jozvex

01-11-2006, 12:58 PM

Seriously, if they dont call it:

Ninja Render Studio Monkey

I m gonna go nuts...

Shh with that name already! Don't give them any ideas they may be psychotic enough to use. Don't forget, these people create terms like 'spacewarp' and 'spherify', can they really be trusted?

I'm sure Maya will be around for a few more years yet, and if there are enough plugins left to tack on, so will Max. :thumbsup:

loocas

01-11-2006, 01:14 PM

would it be MAXA.............:curious:

Mr A

Sure it will...

http://www.duber.cz/dump/maxa_logo.jpg

---------------------------------------------------------------------

But hey, if it really isn't going to be a Ninja Render Studio Monkey I'm gonna ask for a refund! :deal:

Jozvex

01-11-2006, 01:29 PM

Haha, replace “Can you imagine?” with “Can you say *ka-ching*?"

jbradley

01-11-2006, 02:11 PM

loocas

01-11-2006, 02:47 PM

What will be big news for me is if Maya customers get access to the same licensing situation as with Max8. It's somewhat ridiculous that Max8 can render to unlimited mental ray nodes in a farm (using Max8, not standalone), and with Maya a customer needs to purchase a standalone license for each machine. I'm not talking satellite here.

An Alias rep mentioned to me that it's a specific deal between mental images and Autodesk, so it's likely at some point after the acquisition that this will occur. Man, I certainly hope so.

On a serious note... I just hope they won't introduce the same pricing policy to Alias products as well... I'm not a Alias products' user thou, but I'd really feel sorry for those in the EU who will be purchasing upgrades or even worse, full new licences of ADSK products, since they cost TWICE AS MUCH here in Europe than they do in the US, or generally, the rest of the world :cry: And I'm not talking about any special versions, or localised manuals etc... That'd be somehow acceptable (even thou, TWICE AS MUCH! man!), but the very same version of Max can be bought in the US for over $3000 USD, here, you HAVE TO BUY the very same Max for over $6000 USD!!! WTF?! And if you buy it in the US and wanna register in EU, you have to pay THE REST for being elligible to register your product!

That's bullshit!

nikiatanasov

01-11-2006, 03:17 PM

I'm not using any Autodesk's software since 2000 year,
I work in film industry and my vision about software/toolset is very different from Autodesk's.
I just don't need this combination for data managment with softwares like autocad or 3dmax for realizing my ideas.
btw, 3dmax is very usefull software especially with Vray renderer but it not fit in our workflow.

MAYA,XSI,LIGHTWAVE!!! rules ;)

more companies > more visions
the choise is mine

With Regards,
Nikolai Atanasov

bluerock

01-11-2006, 03:31 PM

"Shroud of the dark side has fallen... begun the autocad's war has"
maya master says.

byz
-Teo.

Sollesnes

01-11-2006, 04:14 PM

Whats next? Autodesk buying Adobe?

Damn, I hope Autodesk will keep working on Maya for a little while onwards..

Alden

01-11-2006, 04:36 PM

Hey Good News.

3D Max isn't going anywhere.
~Aldo

Nicodemus

01-11-2006, 04:42 PM

Discreet: " Gee, Auto what do you want to do tonight?"
Autodesk: "The same thing we do every night Discy'. Try to take OVER THE WORLD!"
~L~

Andre Silva

01-11-2006, 05:01 PM

Dont know if this has been talked about yet, I haven't had a chance to read the entire thread yet, but I was wondering what the big studios thinks especially the ones that use Maya a lot or in conjuction with their proprietary software, about the purchace and the fate of Maya, if they would have any say or pull to affect Autodesk descisions for Maya's future?

I've been using Maya for about 2yrs now and Im finally getting my groove with Maya, I'd just hate to start over.

hope, hope, hope...

Andre
loyal Maya user

Michael5188

01-11-2006, 05:09 PM

I can see how the two combining could bother some people, but there is a bright side.

Think about a software with the strengths of Max, and the strengths of Maya together. I think it sounds neat. I am hoping though that there is still competition between 3D software that it drives the developers to really push the envelope.

And, no more posts-

Hey, I'm new to 3d, should I get Maya or 3D Studio Max??

hanskloss

01-11-2006, 05:10 PM

StarSlicer

01-11-2006, 05:17 PM

Well, being a structural designer I can tell you right now Autodesk is making waves in the design build industry with Revit. They are pretty much phasing out AutoCAD in my industry with Revit which they acquired from a small developer some years ago. As it stands right now, architectural firms use two different programs. Architectural Desktop 2006, and Building Systems 2006. There are also other programs outside of these two such as Land Desktop 2006 which civil engineers use. These programs are basically ONE program, AutoCAD 2006 shipped with different tools for their respective destinations and intended use. There is also a program called Autodesk VIZ. This is basically 3ds Max with architectural tools. Anyway, they are doing the same thing now with Revit. Their intention is to ship various versions of Revit. Revit Building, Revit Structure and Revit MEP. These programs will eventually phase out AutoCAD and the various forms of it I mentioned above in the design build industry.

So if this is in fact their vision for the CG industry as well, then I see a few probable outcomes. One being, they release a new base version of Maya and ship it with various studio tools depending on the buyers needs. I could see them creating a new version of Maya, and then tooling out a different version for games, and another for movies.

My prediction for Maya honestly, is a vague variation of what I just outlined above. What about the long term? Well, I don't think anyone of us can really say. Maybe they will create one really fantastic 3D program and tool it out to the Multimedia industry and call that Maya, and tool out the same 3D program for real world applications such as architectural conceptual design and name that 3DS. I do see them releasing one all knowing 3D program for everyone and tooling out different versions no matter what happens though.

I will say one last thing, they don't care about names. They just want the all the business. They are currently willing to shed the AutoCAD name for the superior Revit software. Autodesk does want to give people a quality product, and that's good for all of us no matter what happens. None of these programs are of any use without creativity.

JeroenDStout

01-11-2006, 05:25 PM

I think the name will involve selery.

Or I hope so, anyway.

SirRon

01-11-2006, 05:34 PM

And, no more posts-

Hey, I'm new to 3d, should I get Maya or 3D Studio Max??

We'd probably get more posts like "What's the difference between Maya and Max? They're both by the same company?" :hmm:

chrisWhite

01-11-2006, 05:44 PM

Went to Alias' site to check out the new logo and the first thing I saw was:

http://www.alias.com/eng/img/int_home_buy_alias.gif

Man, they weren't kidding.

pixelmonk

01-11-2006, 06:04 PM

Don´t worry about the software, it´s still the artist who´s doing the nice pictures and animations ;)

André

actually some times it is the software. Some companies don't want to waste time and money to spin you up on new software just because you're pretty good at C4D but they use Maya.

there's no black and white answer.

pixelmonk

01-11-2006, 06:10 PM

You guys really are panicing over absolutely nothing. They arent going to discontinue anything. At all. They are making both software pacages more compatible with each other.

Discontinuing one of the software pacages makes no sence. They just spent $197 million USD so that they could loose half of their new client base? Riiiiiiiiight...

They bought ALIAS cos they wanted MAYA. Isnt that sinking in? Hell, VW bought Bugatti and then developed the Veyron. Was that a step backwards?

they can't make both packages 100% compatible when Max will never run on all the same platforms that Maya does.

Flawed logic in thinking it won't be a step backwards. Apple kills all PC (windows) development on any company or application they buy. Shake is a perfect example. It's perfectly easy to see how within a couple years one of the two products can cease to exist, unless they try to market both apps and specialize them into say the gaming market and film market, which is what the first Autodesk announcement has you believe.

mummey

01-11-2006, 06:19 PM

they can't make both packages 100% compatible when Max will never run on all the same platforms that Maya does.

Flawed logic in thinking it won't be a step backwards. Apple kills all PC (windows) development on any company or application they buy. Shake is a perfect example. It's perfectly easy to see how within a couple years one of the two products can cease to exist, unless they try to market both apps and specialize them into say the gaming market and film market, which is what the first Autodesk announcement has you believe.

Shake still runs on Linux because the customers demanded it. I expect the same will cause Maya to continue to support mutliple OS's in the future and any new product to succeed Maya/Max to as well.

UrbanFuturistic

01-11-2006, 06:36 PM

Shake still runs on Linux because the customers demanded it.Yeah, with a slightly older featureset and for about $3,000 more :p

But then apple are pushing a platform and not just the software.

Seriously though, automatically assuming the two products will be merged is silly; of course Autodesk will do this if it will benefit them but this may no necessarily be so.

A possibbility I don't think anyone has considered is that technology may be shifted from Maya to Max to aid with enough of a rewrite to release it on other platforms which would certainly help things go more smoothly.

Anyone remember the CorelDraw and Maya hybrid half Linux half WINE ports?

*shudder*

Wouldn't want a repeat of <i>that</i> mistake.

regards, Paul

Confracto

01-11-2006, 06:41 PM

honestly, whatever happens, I think the tools that come out are going to be better.
mainly because now they won't have to write ALL KINDS of export/import plugins to all their tools....ppl will be able to use combustion with maya, and no more dumb obj exports!
who knows, they might even unify the xyz axis thing!

also, it does mean that they'll be able to share things, so they won't have to write 'how to make a box' twice.

character

01-11-2006, 07:09 PM

ALL YOUR 3D BASE ARE BELONG TO US
-Autodesk

Thakandar

01-11-2006, 07:23 PM

ALL YOUR 3D BASE ARE BELONG TO US
-Autodesk

Who can contend with the will of both Sauron AND Isengard?
..there are none who can.. :banghead:

JeroenDStout

01-11-2006, 07:54 PM

No! I am your owner!

loocas

01-11-2006, 08:01 PM

JOIN THE DARK FORCE TODAY, OR BE DOOMED FOREVER!
Or, in other words, surrender or we BUY you!

http://www.duber.cz/dump/darth_duber_max.jpg

day_j

01-11-2006, 08:13 PM

Buy XSI = problem solved.

anopheles

01-11-2006, 08:16 PM

jupp, here we go!

agreenster

01-11-2006, 08:26 PM

besnik

01-11-2006, 08:30 PM

Long live MAX

stefan

01-11-2006, 08:50 PM

Besnik please be more carefull. Original is, as I remember - "King is death. Long live the King!"
So it is to early for it.

homayon2000

01-11-2006, 09:01 PM

I believe 3dmax user are only luckly, i as maya user don't have joy.

deadplant155

01-11-2006, 09:22 PM

i've been keeping this in the back of my head these past weeks or months or however long it's been in progress.... but it never really hit me till just today....it was like a punch in the gut, like i just found out a family member died or something.....ow....rest in peace alias.....and heaven help us.

Lolec

01-11-2006, 09:32 PM

i think this is good for both , max and maya users, anything coming from this will be better than is now , i mean. autodesk want money, no to kill maya , but , killing maya and not making something better will not benefit anyone . any change will be for better. the only thing to complain is that you, maya users maybe will have to learn our max shurtcuts :)

loocas

01-11-2006, 09:40 PM

I believe 3dmax user are only luckly, i as maya user don't have joy.

http://lcb.me.uk/losingit/wp-images/smilies/icon_yawn.gif

besnik

01-11-2006, 09:47 PM

Besnik please be more carefull. Original is, as I remember - "King is death. Long live the King!"
So it is to early for it.

If he is dead how can he live long

loocas

01-11-2006, 09:57 PM

If he is dead how can he live long

He didn't say he was DEAD, he actually said he was DEATH :argh: Man! So the king is the death?! http://www.thomasso.com/wp-images/moods/moods/scared.gif

Now I'm really scared something bad is going to happen... :blush:

SPIDER2544

01-11-2006, 10:05 PM

well finaly have some standard formats at least, and probibly have developed some of the worlds best tools ever by next year. personaly i cant wait to see what happens... worst comes to worst everyone jump to XSI hahah

homayon2000

01-11-2006, 10:15 PM

3dmax user makes you happy,
there comes largest plugin maya to you; ( 3dmax inseparably of plugin, otherwise does not function ).

kengi

01-11-2006, 10:15 PM

i only hope they develop pretty GUI for both max nad maya.
remember pretty GUI is most important thing in 3d graphic... imagine those beautiful screenshots!

:beer:

onlooker

01-11-2006, 10:21 PM

EyeForComplexity

01-11-2006, 10:27 PM

I really hope autodesk doesnt screw up maya....because its awsome...and if they do mess it up there is no way in hell im gonna use autodesk's software...By the time autodesk screw up maya XSI will probably rule the world.

loocas

01-11-2006, 10:32 PM

...By the time autodesk screw up maya XSI will probably rule the world.

Yeah! And here we go again... WORLD DOMINATION MARRY-GO-ROUND... :bounce:

minc

01-11-2006, 10:47 PM

Y is UP, damnit!

stefan

01-11-2006, 11:27 PM

Yes this one is interesting. If Autodesk shoud rule the 3d World /even with Maya/ everybody scream. And If it shoud be Avid with XSI we shoud be happy?

Quatermass

01-11-2006, 11:30 PM

Look, I've used both programs, and there really isn't that much difference between the two. The shortcuts are similar (no, really they are). So similar that when I had to learn Maya, it was a cinch to do so because I knew Max. Plus you can always CUSTOMISE the shortcuts. Jeez, I remeber reading about the guys at ILM when they were using Maya for 'The Phantom Mence', and they mentioned how it was sometimes difficult to to work on someone elses machine, since the main user had customised it up the wazoo.

It's a fallacy to think about Maya and Max in terms of who serves which section of the industry (film, games etc..), since they can do the same thing and use some of the same renderers. I'm pretty sure Pixar DOES use Max, and a lot of the smaller boutique film houses use it as well. When I used Maya, it was for a games company. I've used Softimage too, for game development and filmic stuff.

Yes Max crashes a lot, but Maya is certainly NOT free from bugs.

There is no problem except that which you are creating in your own minds for the sake of having an opinion.

loocas

01-11-2006, 11:47 PM

Look, I've used both programs, and there really isn't that much difference between the two. The shortcuts are similar (no, really they are). So similar that when I had to learn Maya, it was a cinch to do so because I knew Max. Plus you can always CUSTOMISE the shortcuts. Jeez, I remeber reading about the guys at ILM when they were using Maya for 'The Phantom Mence', and they mentioned how it was sometimes difficult to to work on someone elses machine, since the main user had customised it up the wazoo.

It's a fallacy to think about Maya and Max in terms of who serves which section of the industry (film, games etc..), since they can do the same thing and use some of the same renderers. I'm pretty sure Pixar DOES use Max, and a lot of the smaller boutique film houses use it as well. When I used Maya, it was for a games company. I've used Softimage too, for game development and filmic stuff.

Carve to marble, sell for a grand as a CGS carving, and I'm buying it for hitting everybody talking silly in looooong-bonanza threads, just like this one, to their heads!

Jozvex

01-12-2006, 12:13 AM

Look, I've used both programs, and there really isn't that much difference between the two.

I think most of us have used both programs and that's exactly why we're worried! We know what can happen to our chosen software if the other gets preference.

The shortcuts are similar (no, really they are).

Not so long ago they weren't at all, but now Max uses the QWERTY transformation tool setup like Maya has always had and so yes, it's a bit closer.

Jeez, I remeber reading about the guys at ILM when they were using Maya for 'The Phantom Mence', and they mentioned how it was sometimes difficult to to work on someone elses machine, since the main user had customised it up the wazoo.

Yes but they don't just mean hotkeys! In Maya with a bit of MEL knowledge you can redo the whole interface if you want to. Delete/create menus, add icon areas and new interface concepts, add web browser based controls etc etc. Hotkeys are one thing but places like ILM completely dismantle Maya and create mini apps out of it if they want to.

It's a fallacy to think about Maya and Max in terms of who serves which section of the industry (film, games etc..), since they can do the same thing and use some of the same renderers.

I'm more inclined to think it's a fallacy that its a fallacy and that somehow no-one has realised it yet.

A lot of people have 5+ years experience with both apps, they have their reasons to be worried.

IestynRoberts

01-12-2006, 12:25 AM

loocas

01-12-2006, 12:45 AM

So what exactly is going to happen to Maya then? All my books and everything else i've bought, will it mean that nothing will work with the new Maya stuff - or will Maya stay the same? I can't seem to find anything about this - and it's quite upsetting - wont be able to sleep tonight! Sob Sob.

I'm afraid you're going to have to sacrifice a chicken every sunday midnight with a crucifix in order to find out! :surprised

IestynRoberts

01-12-2006, 02:04 AM

He He...

*looks for chicken's..paranoia set's in..*

deepcgi

01-12-2006, 02:29 AM

I used to treat this forum and its posters with respect and thought most of the users were adult professionals who have a tiny bit of intelligence in their brains. This and previous Alias|Autodesk rants proves different. Reading many of these posts reminds me of high school.

I think you'll find that many of those complaining the loudest in these threads are small business owners and managers that actually have to write the checks to Autodesk.

I prefer Maya for game development. In fact, I prefer Maya for real-time database management as a whole, due to its flexible node-based architecture. I've devoted quite a lot of time in custom tools for this purpose. It is partly because I trusted in the market competition with Max to encourage Alias to continue to improve its polygon tools specifically for game developement. Do I have something to worry about? Very likely. Press releases from both Alias and Autodesk described the two apps in terms of their independent market strengths.

I've got news, three years is not a long time in product development cycles.

Just take a look at the new bundle pricing over at Adobe. Each individual app seems to have a reasonable price tag, but the bundle upgrade prices are substantial. We can expect the same thing here.

appppo

01-12-2006, 02:33 AM

You guys are wasting time.
Threre are tons of things other than 3D app, which are important for CG Artist.

Ah...so wake up and go out and draw something with pencil.
Jeez

nepaligurkha

01-12-2006, 04:00 AM

im not sure what to think, ive been only using maya for 3 years now. It dosn't sound like they're going to kill maya. "Autodesk plans to continue the development and support of Alias products and services. The combined company’s research and development priority is to link Autodesk’s and Alias’ existing products, delivering increased interoperability and improved data management etc...." but i what i was wondering about was im sure this will hinder the processes of converting maya to work on the new intel macs as universal binaries. I don't even know if the processes was taking place.

amannin

01-12-2006, 04:25 AM

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/amannin/buy_alias.jpg

And they did just that... :deal:

thatoneguy

01-12-2006, 06:39 AM

If people are trying to think of new naming conventions, lets at least be a bit more forward thinking.

MAYAX|SI

pronounced

mä'ăks ĕs ī

chrisWhite

01-12-2006, 07:11 AM

And they did just that... :deal:
Ha! Beat you to it back on page 8, glad to see I wasn't the only one who saw the irony in it though. :thumbsup:

Went to Alias' site to check out the new logo and the first thing I saw was:

http://www.alias.com/eng/img/int_home_buy_alias.gif

Man, they weren't kidding.
"MAYAX|SI"...Nice :scream:

pearson

01-12-2006, 07:20 AM

Wow, didn't think this would affect me so much, since the news is so old, but seeing the autodesk logo up on Alias' site... :sad:

Of course, I'm still mad that SGI gave up their awesome logo for that Geocities-ripoff, lower-case 'g'.

Ah, well, there go the "Good Old Days" All hail the evil new overlords!
:p

deepcgi

01-12-2006, 07:43 AM

I like "Yax". Think of the mascot.

olivierth

01-12-2006, 07:44 AM

With so much people arguing about having there software changed to the other one... I'm sure Autodesk is not stupid enough to go against what most people want... to keep there 3d software as they were.

the_zed_axis

01-12-2006, 09:05 AM

This is very simple logic:

If they don't keep developing Maya and making Maya users happy, they will NOT switch to 3DSMax. They WILL switch to XSI, and Autodesk loses TONS of money.

If they know what's good for them, they will maintain Maya and not **** it up.

good one

xsi already is trying to emulate maya workflow and setting up maya specific hotkeys etc with version 5

alexx

01-12-2006, 09:09 AM

"why oh why didn´t i take the blue pill...."

Gehof

01-12-2006, 10:18 AM

If I understand correctly, Maya is superior from an engineering standpoint being that it's so open-ended and customizable with MEL as well as the fact that it can save an entire scene as an editable script file. That and their codebase is newer and more open-ended than that of Max (it's just older) - all that considered I don't think Autodesk is going to junk Maya. If anything the next release of Max will just BE MAYA with a different name. Why junk Maya and rewrite your program almost entirely when you just bought a newer and more durable system? People scared of losing Maya are just panicking way too much.

I've used 3D Studio for a while, and I'm now officially enrolled as a student of Maya, and so far other than minor differences I can't say there's a tremendous difference, although Maya has a lot more going for it from an engineering standpoint (especially if you want to compare things like MEL to MaxScript).

loocas

01-12-2006, 11:44 AM

I've used 3D Studio for a while, and I'm now officially enrolled as a student of Maya...

Huh... no wonder man! During the time you were hybernated, M$ has taken over the world of OSes, released something called Windows (it's an OS). Arnie has become a LA Governor http://www.senocular.com/smilies/muscle.gif and Yost! Group had developed a 3d Studio MAX, which got renamed after discreet logic was ?bought? by Autodesk, to 3ds max, which is now called 3ds Max and is in its 8th version... :bounce: :buttrock:

Oh, and we're still not flying around in our retro-chevys powered by nuclear reactors as big as a dura-cell battery, so you might actually consider getting some more hybernational-sleep to get over this period... :thumbsup:

rebo

01-12-2006, 01:48 PM

Oh my will people stop with the stupid name concatenations they are simply not going to merge the products in the way you think.

Look at their entire software portfolio look at the technology they bought. Its obvious they are going to diverge maya and max with a strong interchange format ( FBX ) to attempt to corner the CG market from lowend realtime to highend film.

bugo

01-12-2006, 02:04 PM

Im really not enjoying it at all, if in 8 years of Maya has grown up too much, I think that the possibility to grown more is done, no way, they will suck Alias inteligence for their softwares and make a good fusion of them in the next 3 years (expectation).

Ow, yes, im kidding... but still afraid. :sad:

Fred Heys

01-12-2006, 02:07 PM

Oh boy, here we go.

Not sure how to feel :shrug:

Im sure you will manage....

loocas

01-12-2006, 02:45 PM

I...they will suck Alias inteligence for their softwares...

Ofcourse! Becuase they haven't had any up until now! How could we not have seen it before... :banghead:

hundredthirtyseven

01-12-2006, 03:22 PM

It's only a matter of time until Autodesk aquires Mental Images. Just my 2 cents. What do you think about it? It seems to be a reasonable step.

KidderD

01-12-2006, 03:34 PM

It's only a matter of time until Autodesk aquires Mental Images. Just my 2 cents. What do you think about it? It seems to be a reasonable step.

I disagree.

It would seem so, prior to them spending, what could only have been a butt load of money, on the current mental ray licensing deal that they have now.

So, think of it like this, though that makes sense, if AD was to buy MI now, that would mean that they don't think ahead at all in purchases like this, after all if they simply bought MI to begin with they would have saved themselves the cost of all that licensing.

And, I'm not a huge fan of AD, I mean AutoCAD, what's up with that? But, I do think that as a company, they do research their acquistions.

watermage

01-12-2006, 05:30 PM

Im not sure how to feel on this news...but, as with everything else I will "adapt and overcome."

eventually. For now let me cradle my Maya..."yesss my precioussssssss"

Gehof

01-12-2006, 08:03 PM

Huh... no wonder man! During the time you were hybernated, M$ has taken over the world of OSes, released something called Windows (it's an OS). Arnie has become a LA Governor http://www.senocular.com/smilies/muscle.gif and Yost! Group had developed a 3d Studio MAX, which got renamed after discreet logic was ?bought? by Autodesk, to 3ds max, which is now called 3ds Max and is in its 8th version... :bounce: :buttrock:

Oh, and we're still not flying around in our retro-chevys powered by nuclear reactors as big as a dura-cell battery, so you might actually consider getting some more hybernational-sleep to get over this period... :thumbsup:

I assume that at some point prior to 2003 there was a program not at all related to Discreet/AutoDesk's 3D Studio Max.

Jon A. Bell

01-12-2006, 08:16 PM

I assume that at some point prior to 2003 there was a program not at all related to Discreet/AutoDesk's 3D Studio Max.

Sure -- Autodesk released 3D Studio R1 (for MS-DOS) in October 1990. It went through 4 different versions, culminating in the release of 3D Studio R4, which came out in October 1994. (This could also be made to run under Windows 95, with a bit of tweaking.) This was the last version of "3D Studio" for DOS, although many people kept using it for quite a while. (It's also one of the most stable programs I've ever seen -- in two years of working with it 40+ hours a week, I crashed it exactly TWICE. I'd KILL to see that kind of stability with any modern GUI-based program today, on any platform.)

Anyway, 3D Studio MAX Release 1, for Windows NT, came out in April 1996, with subsequent releases appearing every 18 months (shortened to 12 months after the release of 3ds max 6 in October 2003.) The latest version, 3ds max 8, came out last October.

-- Jon

Gehof

01-12-2006, 08:17 PM

BillSpradlin

01-12-2006, 08:23 PM

I haven't read all of this thread, but if any of you are thinking that 3dStudio Max and Maya will co-exist for any longer than a couple of years, you really need a wake up call to reality. One if not both packages will get the axe and the two will converge, it will happen, no doubt about it.

Whatever the AD PR wagon is rolling out it's just damage control. Do you honestly believe for one second that if they would admit that this is going to happen? If they did, it would cause chaos, confusion and discent amongst their customers and people would start looking into other packages, but some might take a wait and see approach. Larger shops rely on a lot of itnernally developed software and probably wouldn't take such a big hit if AD announced tomorrow that they would be discontinuing development and support of either Max or Maya, but the smaller and mid size studios would really take a monsterous hit. Obviously, it will happen over the course of the next several years, one of them or both will go and we'll see a unified package developed.

Cheers.

neuromancer1978

01-12-2006, 08:25 PM

This thread is like a howling pit of madness. It's just a PR announcement. Lordy. Nothing y'all can do about it anyway, so stop fretting. It's bad for your health.

Yep.... I agree. I still feel all unclean though. I am not worried really, but this IS just wrong. It's almost like two mob families coming together, some are against it, other scared, others welcome it. Ultimalty we won't find out what the effects are untill Autodesk releases whatever it is that they are going to release.... and if we don't like it, well we have two choices. 1. stick with it and deal or 2. use a different program.
I started out in 3D with Lightwave, and this was several versions ago. If Maya/Max hybrid sucks, well I know I will go BACK to Lightwave. Enough said. I'll be sad, but I'll deal. Besides I still have Maya 6.0 so I may not get the latest and greatest, but it will funtion well for many years to go and when time comes I'll get yet another 3D app and work with that.
Put this in perspective.... all visual effects and animation studios have to deal with software changes. Hell ILM used Softimage and Electric Image before Maya came around and the results were the same.... great visuals.

Anyways.... that is my last post on this issue.

EDIT.
However what will happen to CGTalks forums? No more Maya forums.... :(

Texlon

01-12-2006, 08:47 PM

Hey people you need to relax a bit!
Keep cool and wait. Changes happen, but it's unlikely you're able to prevent them nor is it possible to alter their outcome. Autodesk is a huge company, and I am pretty sure that they know what is and what isn't good for them and the industry, as they depend on it.
We artists should keep our focus on the work that has to be done, as we devoted our lifes to it ;) and not really bother something that's going to happen in 2 years, soonest.
I personally don't bother at all. I don't care if they merge the two apps, drop one completely or write a entirely new one. It's up to them and it's not happening now... It will happen and then we have the decision to choose for a different app or stay with them.
It's wrong to worry about to future as it's always coming out differently. We need to worry about the now and adapt to what's coming up.
just my two cents, but as far as I'm concerned you can discuss this topic forever... good luck.

Gräck

01-12-2006, 10:04 PM

I don't think Max and Maya will be converged in the next couple of years.

They cannot simply kill one of them, that would be stupid. They would loose a lot of customers. So they have to merge them somehow. But how?

If they take the Maya core and add the Max features, what would happen to all those wonderful Max plugins? What will game developers do with their exporters?

If they take the Max core and add the Maya features, well maybe the plugins will work, but all those customers wouldn't use Windows for sure if they had to.

So how is it possible to converge both packages without loosing a lof of customers? I think it is impossible. Well, I am no programmer but I know this will be a huge task anyway.

The best solution for Autodesk is to change nothing, having customers for both packages and earning money from both sides. Why not?

Well and if they'll kill one of them anyhow, hope they'll keep Max. Z up rulez! ;)

Ahmattu

01-12-2006, 10:31 PM

I'm using Max for long time, but decided to take some (expensive) courses in Maya to use it for character animation instead of Max Character Studio,:sad:

do I cancel these courses??

or go back home to CS??:shrug:

Gräck

01-12-2006, 10:36 PM

or go back home to CS??:shrug:
No, go to sweet home CAT! :)

Ahmattu

01-12-2006, 10:56 PM

No, go to sweet home CAT! :)

thanks Gräck for the advice if u really mean it as an Animator pro,

oh forgot to tell u that I already ordered some Maya training cd's, now tell me what to do?

gmask

01-12-2006, 11:02 PM

Think I'll boot up my SGI Impact R10k for the first time in 6 years, launch Maya 3 and remind myself of the good old days when Alias was still owned by SGI! LOL!!!

Gräck

01-12-2006, 11:09 PM

thanks Gräck for the advice if u really mean it as an Animator pro,

oh forgot to tell u that I already ordered some Maya training cd's, now tell me what to do?
If you want to compare CS and CAT or looking for an animation package in general, this is my opinion for sure. Well, this is not the right topic to discuss about it, maybe you should join this thread: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=294891&highlight=CAT

Well, we will buy another two Maya7 licenses in our company (unfortunately, cause I'm the only Max user). So in respect of that I see no problems to go on with Maya. But personally I have a different view about that. The best would be to wait... a few years... then maybe you are able to get the best animation package in the world. But maybe there is no change at all and you didn't learn anything in that period. So like Texlon already said, live in the present, do it now.

Ahmattu

01-12-2006, 11:50 PM

Well, this is not the right topic to discuss about it, maybe you should join this thread: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=294891&highlight=CAT .

wow!!! great help man thanks for sharing this link,

I think I'll keep playing around with (CS, CAT) and wait like you just said, cuz I think I'll improve much faster on Character Animation, as opposed to doing that on Maya or MotionBuilder,

dont you think so ??

PS Idon't think this is much off topic:rolleyes:

reven

01-13-2006, 12:00 AM

you guys feel that, right there in your chest that liitle thing riiight there. yup thats part of our souls dieing in unison

i think this could be the reason i was totally depressed this morning...it took me three hours to work through it and get online!

Bob27

01-13-2006, 04:29 AM

MAYA + MAX = MAYAX

Kabab

01-13-2006, 04:42 AM

The emotional attachment people have to Alias is very interesting even suprising!

Bobo

01-13-2006, 05:07 AM

Thanks for the background. I was referring (in my other post) to 3ds Max 6/7.

Still no one commenting on Maya's newer codebase / open ended architecture? I'd say that if anything that'd be what will force Autodesk to either shelf Max or just re-adapt Max's UI and systems over a Maya platform to keep Max users comfortable but using newer/better technology. I'm not bashing Max as a program, I think it works fine and am comfortable in it. It's just plain facts that Maya is more up to date because it was created more recently, and how can argue with being able to save scenes as script files (not to mention the entire concept of MEL). For AutoDesk to shelve all that...I don't even want to think about how they'd manage to come to such a bad decision.

Unfortunately, the fact is that both Max and Maya are children of the 90s. Maya 1.0 came out in 1998, just two years after Max 1.0. Creating the applications took a couple of years, so the ideas and concepts are from the first half of the 90s, and some concepts are straight from the 80s. It is true that the two years difference show, but the world of computing has moved on in the last 10 years, so both are pretty old (although both can be used successfully to get the job done). While XSI shows some newer concepts, its scripting interface integration for example is far away from the glory of MEL or the elegance of MAXScript and is disappointing IMHO. So all current applications have their pros, cons, devoted users and certain future in front of them. Obviously, killing Maya or Max in the short term would be as stupid as it gets.
The most logical thing to do (and something that has been mentioned in official statements already) is to bridge the gap between them - sharing data between 3D applications today is just a PITA. Working at a Max VFX studio, it is usually our job to deal with it as we are an "island" in the movie world, so I would welcome such a development - either through an FBX bridge that ACTUALLY WORKS, or via an intermediate XML format along the lines of the Collada project (which would serve the game development customers of both applications).

Hooch

01-13-2006, 06:24 AM

I would like to have the power of Maya & the logic of max along with the

UI of XSI! :D

purvapar

01-13-2006, 07:17 AM

Quote : "The combined company’s research and development priority is to link Autodesk’s and Alias’ existing products, delivering increased interoperability and improved data management."

Well.. thats nice I guess.. as long as they dont screw up both of thm and try to incorporate the modeling capabilities of one and the texturing capabilities of another.. i think it just might work.. if not, Lightwave here i come!

Gräck

01-13-2006, 08:18 AM

wow!!! great help man thanks for sharing this link,

I think I'll keep playing around with (CS, CAT) and wait like you just said, cuz I think I'll improve much faster on Character Animation, as opposed to doing that on Maya or MotionBuilder,

dont you think so ??

PS Idon't think this is much off topic:rolleyes:
Well, if you want to start directly on character animation without having to create complex rig setups at first, CAT's the right choice. Currently, I think you'll drive a little more savely with Max since it is not 100% sure what will happen to Maya.

Magius

01-13-2006, 12:37 PM

i think what is going to happen... is gradually max infecting maya..
it will begin by simple compability issues.. like open max scene in maya and vice versa..
then it will go on and on and on..
if the guys at Autodesk (Which are acting like Microsoft now) want to kill Maya, it will
be as easy as squashing a bug , forcing Maya users to move to max , taking a risk, that the users won't abandon... but i don't think they want to utterly kill Maya...

to me it sound like : "If you can't beat'em, buy'em, eat'em..."

Hope everything goes well...

loocas

01-13-2006, 12:53 PM

"If you can't beat'em, buy'em, eat'em..."

Funny... Alias has never beaten Autodesk in terms of userbase/money (which is all what's this about...) So?! Why trying to beat somebody who actually isn't a competition?!

Anyways, why so much rubbish about max killing maya and vice versa while the only thing Autodesk was interested in in the first place were the Studio Tools and the CAD/CAM software!

:surprised

evo_supra

01-13-2006, 01:03 PM

cpan

01-13-2006, 01:05 PM

IF they make a new application, wich engine do you think they will use? the slow/outdated/buggy_as_hell core of max or the fast/flexible/full_node_based/rewritten_allready system of maya? I doubt they will use max's one, but they will extend maya's poly modeling power (in fact this is very easy to do due to the MEL nature of maya -> they only need to translate the algorithms and then modify some mel scripts) and also some parts of the UI, to make it easy to use for both maya users and max users. peace of cake, these modifications could be done in less than one year :p

maya will not die, it will reincarnate among with max goodies :D

loocas

01-13-2006, 01:35 PM

...the slow/outdated/buggy_as_hell core of max or the fast/flexible/full_node_based/rewritten_allready system of maya...

Oh man, I love black&white comparisons :thumbsup: They are so unbiased and objective, very often based on rich, long-term personal experience with both parties... :buttrock:

cpan

01-13-2006, 01:41 PM

wich has the best viewport performance? maya of max?
wich crashes at least 20 times a day? maya or max?
wich is more flexible? maya or max?

not saying that maya is better than max feature wise, but the core of max is really outdated.

samiujan

01-13-2006, 01:47 PM

Nah... Maya Max'd

If you can't beat them, let them buy you.

no, actually, you cannot imagine Jaguar acuiring Volvo but it is quite possible the other way round - Maya is too slick and cool for Alias to buy something as boring and clunky as 3DS

loocas

01-13-2006, 02:06 PM

wich has the best viewport display? maya of max?

- What I've seen, both are equal here...

wich crashes at least 20 times a day? maya or max?

- From my personal experience, max is rock-stable, haven't crashed on me for quite some time now! It's not always the problem of the SW, try to clean up your windows from time to time...

wich is more flexible? maya or max?

- Donno what you mean here by flexible. I find both flexible enough to get any kind of a job done...

...but the core of max is really outdated.

- This is the only thing I agree with you... ;) However, so is Maya's... If you wanna see the top-notch latest 3dapp core, go and see modo...

no, actually, you cannot imagine Jaguar acuiring Volvo but it is quite possible the other way round - Maya is too slick and cool for Alias to buy something as boring and clunky as 3DS

- :D:D:D:D

Joat

01-13-2006, 02:44 PM

Don't want to comment on the betterness of the two apps, since I don't know them enough.
What I want to comment, though, is the business logic behind this aquisition:

If company A buys a rival company B, it's always due to just a few possible reasons.

1. Widen the product range
2. Buy expertise
3. lessen the competition
4. restructure the company by expanding and then splitting key functions into separate companies specializing on narrower product range

There are other possible reasons as well, but I think these are the most relevant in this context. Let's use these as a base when thinking what will happen to our two 3d apps in the future:

1. Widen product range. Probably true that Autodesk is intrested on some of the tools (StudioTools?) Alias has on their offering. By buying they have the tools.
2. Buy expertise. This is a two way street, since companies usually merge two similar units into one and keep only the employers they think are the most vital for the development. Means that they will pick a direction to go (or app to continue) and assign resources to the development accordingly. Others have to go.
3. Lessen the competition. One 3d app less in the market will mean one less option for everybody to choose from. With the added benefit of marketing "transition deals" to the users of the app that is discontinued. You can see this happen all through the software industry.
4. Restructuring. By regrouping the company's productline and forming new subdivision companies to focus only in their key areas it is possible to make several succesful companies out of one (with the added benefit of cashing heavily when the companies stocks open for trade). Venture capitalism. It's been done all around the world. All the time.

By thinking in these terms, it is hard to see the situation where both apps continue to exist. Sorry guys. High-end / low-end approach simply doesn't work. If that would be the case, it would be done by implementing AppXPro / AppXValue / AppXlite approach. Where there is only one application and the ability to buy stripped down versions of it.

I do not believe 3dsmax will be the one in the firing-line. Wider user base and their own product. Max probably gains some new features, tho.

Gräck

01-13-2006, 02:59 PM

wich has the best viewport display? maya of max?
Do you mean something like DirectX shaders and stuff? Where can I find that in Maya?

wich crashes at least 20 times a day? maya or max?
Max crashes? Using version 7? Where? I have to use it a few weeks until the next crash. Well, but my teammates get some crashes with their Maya...

wich is more flexible? maya or max?
Flexible... if you mean plugin compatibility, it'll surely be Max which is more flexible.

UnlikelyCorny

01-13-2006, 03:30 PM

It has started allready.........

Alias to lay off 400 in post-merger move
Analyst worries layoff of sales staff may eventually hurt

Kevin Restivo
Financial Post

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 Alias Systems Inc., the Toronto software company bought by Autodesk Inc. for $182-million in October, will lay off up to 400 people worldwide today, sources told the Financial Post.

The high-end graphics software maker, best known for its work on such movies as Jurassic Park, is going to lay off predominately sales and support staff at its headquarters.

Wholesale cuts are expected at international offices in China, Germany, Japan and elsewhere.

Most of the firm's research and development staff in Toronto will be left untouched, sources said.

Alias employees in Toronto have been anticipating the cuts for months. "We're sitting on pins and needles," said one employee, who spoke to the Post on condition of anonymity. "We don't know anything yet."

Alias's top seven executives are expected to leave the company as part of the integration process with California-based Autodesk. Doug Walker, the company's chief executive, has said he will leave the company.

Neither Mr. Walker nor the six other top executives returned calls or agreed to speak with the Post yesterday.

Alias employs 500 people at its Toronto office and a total of 800 worldwide.

Autodesk, based in San Raphael, Calif., has said it wants to make the deal accretive to earnings in the second half of this year.

Brendan Barnicle, a software analyst with Pacific Crest Securities in Portland, Ore., said layoffs are a normal part of any merger and acquisition involving technology companies.

However, Mr. Barnicle said Alias risks losing customers if it cuts sales people with valuable product expertise.

"There is always a risk when you do things like that" he said, adding that Oracle Corp. hurt itself when it laid off some sales staff after it acquired PeopleSoft Inc. for US$10.3-billion.

Alias rose to prominence in the mid- to late 1990s, when its critically acclaimed technology was featured in such major Hollywood films as Lord of the Rings.

But the company's fortunes, like that of thousands of others in the beleaguered technology sector, waned after the tech investing bubble burst in the spring of 2001.

Alias chopped 100 jobs in 2002 and cut software prices due to slack demand, and later sold itself to Silicon Graphics Inc. The Silicon Valley company, which was also ailing, sold Alias the following year to Accel-KKR, a private equity firm in New York City, and Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan for US$57.5-million.

Original Article (http://working.canada.com/toronto/news/story.html?s_id=p1RV43Tlo%2bAa3T309NnQ5qOSzqv6dDF2dCE0rkwAhRmFQyil%2f%2banTQ%3d%3d)

......

JorgeIvanovich

01-13-2006, 04:19 PM

For a long time you Maya bastards have a program with very little bugs,now the
happiness its overs!

Welcome to the world of bugs

Maya 8 wil include autosave every 5 min,and of course it will hang when the jobs it´s
almost complete.

JWRodegher

01-13-2006, 04:34 PM

Jorge, stop it already you gonna make me cry man...

And joat, you´re making me really worried here. But still, I dont think they will just erase maya, I mean, the industry will hate them for it or at least a big part of I think. I could be totaly wrong though...

mlmiller1983

01-13-2006, 04:48 PM

I dont think they will just erase maya, I mean, the industry will hate them for it or at least a big part of I think. I could be totaly wrong though...

Yeah and the studios who use a Maya/Renderman workflow would just love Autodesk if they dumped Maya.

Grooveholmes

01-13-2006, 04:55 PM

mlmiller1983

01-13-2006, 05:14 PM

I think we are out of the cg rennaissance and in to the dark ages of cg now. As Autodesk/Discreet (or whatever the hell they want to call themselves now) decides that there is no serious competition that there is no longer any need to innovate and all the technology becomes stale.

http://working.canada.com/toronto/news/story.html?s_id=p1RV43Tlo%2bAa3T309NnQ5qOSzqv6dDF2dCE0rkwAhRmFQyil%2f%2banTQ%3d%3d

Softimage|XSI is still being innovative. They gave CG GATOR, Gigapolygon Core, the Novdex Physix Engine, and the upcoming Face|Robot facial animation technology. XSI is pushing foward in technology. Yeah Maya and 3DS Max are widely used now but that can change(hopefully) if they stop trying to be innovative.

loocas

01-13-2006, 05:48 PM

Ok, now the one about the girl in red on her way to visit her grand-ma' in the woods... :rolleyes:

Dudes, don't ya get it already?! What worries? What insecurity? What stress?! WTF! :banghead:

None of us KNOW what's gonna happen, so stop the F' speculating shit here, it ain't mean anything! You're not gonna change the minds behind Autodesk!

BESIDES, THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN MAYA NOR MAX! They make big bucks in the engineering/architecture industry, not the tiny little cg playground in which we all believe...

AMEN! :bowdown:

Ibanezhead

01-13-2006, 05:57 PM

Why all the hate towards MAX? Why be an "App X only" kind of person. Many companies use more than one app, and any wise artist will be familiar with several of them. MAX and Maya both have strengths and weaknesses, but neither is crap. MAX is very widely used because it is a good program. This only opens the door for an even better app to be made by Autodesk, and it opens the door for other companies like Luxology to shine. I think good years are ahead of us...

loocas

01-13-2006, 06:03 PM

Gräck

01-13-2006, 06:03 PM

None of us KNOW what's gonna happen, so stop the F' speculating shit here, it ain't mean anything! You're not gonna change the minds behind Autodesk!

But you think you know what Autodesk is interested in?

BESIDES, THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN MAYA NOR MAX! They make big bucks in the engineering/architecture industry, not the tiny little cg playground in which we all believe...

Joat

01-13-2006, 06:33 PM

Once upon a time there were a 3d application called Neogeo (not to be confused with the gamebox). It was developed by a small company which didn't make it in a rough world of business.
The head developer of the software managed to cut a deal with the owners of the software's rights. He formed a foundation which raised the amount of money needed to buy the software's rights. That foundation transferred the software into an open source project. Years passed. Nowadays that software is called Blender (http://www.blender3d.org), and it has a wide and active userbase (several millions of users more than on those Neogeo days). It has also developed tremendously since those Neogeo days.
This software is the strongest argument so far for me in my way of becoming a believer in opensource software. I formerly thought all opensource stuff is merely pale (and limited) reproduction of their commercial alternatives.
Blender and Gimp has proved me wrong.

If this gave you a feeling I'm trying to convert you from your software of choice, sorry. Not my intention. What I'm saying is that discontinuing doesn't necessarily always mean extinction. It can sometimes be a true new beginning. For Blender it certainly was.

loocas

01-13-2006, 08:17 PM

But you think you know what Autodesk is interested in?

Sure! There's a reason why people around here call me "Oracle" :wise: :buttrock: :scream: :D

Actually, I read it somewhere, that the main interest, Autodesk had in Alias, were the studio tools and other CAD/CAM software... :) Possibly not true, but then again, who knows?! :shrug:

deepcgi

01-13-2006, 09:21 PM

Just keep that modifier stack the hell away from me and no one gets hurt.

loocas

01-13-2006, 09:35 PM

Just keep that modifier stack the hell away from me and no one gets hurt.

I donno man, I kinda like it... :shrug: Sure it could have been improved! I'd love to see a node based modifier-flow for deriving selections etc... and feeding modifiers with them and so on so forth... Also, I'm not very familiar with maya's workflow, but it's just the way the apps work. There's no need to be hostile when it comes to comparing apples and oranges... They're both fruits right? ;)

deepcgi

01-13-2006, 09:53 PM

maya's non-linear history with node-based architecture and the Max modifier stack are mutually exclusive concepts. An effort to combine them would be unholy. I think we should call a priest.

opus13

01-13-2006, 10:44 PM

I think overall im a little let down by this. At the end of the day its just another Business Company taking out its rival, which is bad for us. Meaning less competition, which is all important for us consumers who benefits from this greatly. At just under $200m i expected Alias to be worth alot more, oh well i hope im wrong.

and autodesk paid 3x as much as they could have 2 years ago. the last transfer of Alias was valued at ~$57million.

autodesk is buying the same intellectual property for much more than anyone else has.

mustique

01-14-2006, 02:36 AM

Please welcome Michel Besner (former Kaydara chief) of Alias,
in << leading product management* >> of the Autodesk Media and Entertainment Division.

:applause::applause::applause:

This ladies and gentleman, is a very good indication of where things are heading.
My guess is there was never a solid B plan for what MAX would become at AD.
A Motionbuilder like architecture with MEL like flexibility might dictate the nextgen app
that will inevitably be revealed within 3 years.

Till then, Max-Maya-Motionbuilder will probably continue as separate but compatible apps, eventually becoming twins, that prepare users for the next big thing.

*http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/PR-Autodesk_Alias_close-FINAL_Jan_9.pdf

Eraq

01-14-2006, 09:41 AM

This would be the best and most expensive plugin Autodesk have ever bought!!

:twisted:

I think it sucks!!

hp_deluxe

01-14-2006, 03:06 PM

well, i just hope that the ratio between intelligent people and stupid crying babies at autodesk is better than here in this thread.
if not we are all doomed.

i work with both apps for a while now i'm still switching depending on the thing i want to create. i like and hate them both. both have great features and both are full of anoying bugs.
but if u watched the forums for the last years/months both usergroups are begging for a complete rewrite for a while now. compared to newer softwares like zbrush, modo and so on they both have a lack of usabilitiy and general performance. only because u got used to something, doesn't mean it's a something great. so is there anybody out there who thinks that we have ever seen(or will see) "3ds max 14" or "maya 12" without any big changes? i don't think so...

combined or not, autodesk or not. max or maya. none of them could dominate the cg market for the next 10 years without some heavy changes in it's general structure.
so now things happens that would have happened anyway to both packages. just under one hood and this might be good or not and end up with 2 or 1 new app. i don't care.
if u r not willing to learn new software all day long for the rest of your life u r in the wrong business.

my 2 cents

Gräck

01-14-2006, 03:55 PM

if u r not willing to learn new software all day long for the rest of your life u r in the wrong business.

Willing to learn - of course! But does everybody have time for that? - Personally I don't have and especially not anytime. Some people have so much work that learning another software is almost impossible, so they stick with one application and hope to get the job done with it in the future, too.

loocas

01-14-2006, 06:20 PM

Willing to learn - of course! But does everybody have time for that? - Personally I don't have and especially not anytime. Some people have so much work that learning another software is almost impossible, so they stick with one application and hope to get the job done with it in the future, too.

Not to mention the prices! I learnt max, which costs over $6000 USD here, and now I'll be learning maya, that's another 6 grand... :banghead: Not talking about PLE here... which is unusable for a pro. Same with max, besides, max has only a 30day trial! :argh:

Gräck

01-14-2006, 08:29 PM

Not to mention the prices! I learnt max, which costs over $6000 USD here, and now I'll be learning maya, that's another 6 grand... :banghead: Not talking about PLE here... which is unusable for a pro. Same with max, besides, max has only a 30day trial! :argh:
I agree. Especially small companies have to take care of their financial conditions very much, so they cannot simply switch their artists from one application to another. Not to mention all the stuff which is connected to the app, like exporters and workflow tools. Most of this work has to be done again from scratch. So I think saying you are in the wrong business when you want to stick with one app, is evidence of missing experience there.

mummey

01-14-2006, 09:47 PM

This thread needs...

http://dat.jeroenstout.net/girlswithselery.jpg

deepcgi

01-14-2006, 10:16 PM

well, i just hope that the ratio between intelligent people and stupid crying babies at autodesk is better than here in this thread.
if not we are all doomed.
. so is there anybody out there who thinks that we have ever seen(or will see) "3ds max 14" or "maya 12" without any big changes? i don't think so...

combined or not, autodesk or not. max or maya. none of them could dominate the cg market for the next 10 years without some heavy changes in it's general structure.

Absolutely not true. Adobe is a perfect example. Photoshop and Illustrator clearly improve over time but have seen little structural change over the past 10 years. Apple's Aperture is the first competition they've seen in some time and the result was swift. What is true is that we won't know what what we are missing.

Remember Wavefront. I believe they were in Santa Barbara. They essentially dissolved when Alias closed their offices and offered less than generous relocation packages to Toronto. It didn't happen right away to be sure, but the end result was consolidation. The difference this time is that there is only one company in control. Autodesk will be taking tens of thousands of your dollars and many thousands of hours of your life. You will not be able to get a job in any of the major industries without extensive experience in the Autodesk product line. That has not been true in our industry until now.

The intelligent people I have most respected in my life have not excepted the status quo.

loocas

01-14-2006, 11:44 PM

This thread needs...

http://dat.jeroenstout.net/girlswithselery.jpg

MMMMMM... beutiful nude women... :thumbsup: :buttrock: :thumbsup:

Absolutely not true. Adobe is a perfect example. Photoshop and Illustrator clearly improve over time but have seen little structural change over the past 10 years. Apple's Aperture is the first competition they've seen in some time and the result was swift. What is true is that we won't know what what we are missing.

It's off the road reffering to Adobe regarding this acquisition since there still IS healthy competition on the market to Autodesk regarding CGI tools...

deepcgi

01-15-2006, 12:21 AM

Are you aware of the market share Autodesk has? Of course they have to keep improving the app. Microsoft has to keep improving windows, too. However, most of us couldn't switch to a competing app if we wanted to. The Adobe comparison is valid. Photoshop CS2 is a much better app, but once we had adjustment layers with non-destructive image editing (5 versions ago?) not much has changed.

Prepare to be underwhelmed, unless AVID buys Mental Images, Pixologic and Luxology. Wouldn't that be fun.

loocas

01-15-2006, 12:39 AM

Yes, I am aware of how big and strong Autodesk has grown. And also that it isn't as black&white when it comes to choosing which app to go with. But, the thing is that there still IS competition! Even Microsoft has competition! And even Autodesk does...

It's just that even thou it may seem so doomed, this whole situation and the whole cgi industry (even thou it's a bullshit!), there are still options, there are still others and there are still US ARTISTS, who make the 3d software valuable, otherwise it'd be just a set of zeroes and ones...

You see, pencil won't sketch a beutiful portrait by itself...

Autodesk won't F' this up, because YOU STILL HAVE OPTIONS...

deepcgi

01-15-2006, 12:56 AM

You've hit the nail on the head. They won't screw it up. The very definition of a company NOT innovating.

-Vormav-

01-15-2006, 01:18 AM

Personally, with some of the features that Avid has been adding to their software the past couple of years, and with the rate that they've been adding them, I suspect that Max and Maya would be dead in the water if they simply stopped developing their tools further. This is a market that sells its annual subscriptions and platinum memberships based off of the new features they can offer (and to a lesser degree, increased stability and access to tech support) - unlike Photoshop, which is just selling you the industry standard. When 3D becomes as mainstream and easy to understand as 2d graphics, then a Photoshop of the 3d world can exist. It'll happen eventually, but I don't see it happening for a long time. :shrug:

loocas

01-15-2006, 01:29 AM

You've hit the nail on the head. They won't screw it up. The very definition of a company NOT innovating.

I kinda don't see the connection... :curious:

deepcgi

01-15-2006, 01:44 AM

XSI and all the rest are going to have to be polite and play nice with Autodesk if they want to get anywhere. It's exactly what Apple has to do. They are nowhere compared to Autodesk. The big A is a 1600 pound Gorilla now. You are thinking like an individual not a corporation. I'm in the middle of a three year development. We couldn't switch if we wanted to. It is highly, highly unlikely that we could switch for the project that follows this one (two more years). The next rev of Maya could be amphibious, it wouldn't matter - Autodesk gets the gig.

I don't think anyone is predicting doom for the industry. We are saying competition is good and this newest conquest by Autodesk is bad for the industry. We are saying it is a move towards stagnation and inflated yearly costs.

You don't have to buy fuel from oil companies, you have options. Go ahead. Try to ignore Autodesk and run a business in one of our industries.

I still say call the exorcist.

blinxpro

01-15-2006, 01:55 AM

I think it's funny how so many of the Maya users are saying things like "lightwave or XSI here I come."

Why are some of you so afraid of Max? I think alot of you are just bitter.

My honest opinion is that whatever they do it will be done well.

Autodesk and Alias both make great products, I think users of either can expect better products and faster advances.

Also why is everyone blaming Autodesk? If I am not mistaken Alias had to accept the deal, right? Or, did Autodesk burst through the doors with automatic weapons and force the deal upon helpless little Alias? No!

Those who are looking to blame someone for all this should blame Alias for being a sell out! Alias sold you out. Despite their growing success. Get over it.

I know there won't be a name change but IF there were I would like MAYAX.

-Vormav-

01-15-2006, 01:58 AM

I'm in the middle of a three year development. We couldn't switch if we wanted to. It is highly, highly unlikely that we could switch for the project that follows this one (two more years). The next rev of Maya could be amphibious, it wouldn't matter - Autodesk gets the gig.
A big reason why we won't be seeing some great big merger of the two apps (Mayax, Maxa, or what have you), and probably won't be seeing either app go for a long time as well. The pipeline would have to completely adjusted to move from Maya to Max, or Max to Maya, or from either of those to some hybrid Mayax. And if you're going to be completely adjusting the pipeline, suddenly moving to something like XSI isn't so far-fetched.
For studios with well-developed pipelines, the only way I can see Autodesk continuuing to get money from them is if they do continue to develop Maya and Max separately. And if the updates are as insignifigant as what we see in Photoshop, I can't imagine why any studio would even bother - afterall, even moving up from one version of Max or Maya to the next still requires some work to get things functioning normally again (new plugins compiled for Maya, ironing out the bugs in scripts that the new versions opened up, etc.).

I get your point, and I do agree that this isn't really a good thing for the industry. I just don't think that it's half as bad as people are making it out to be. :shrug:

loocas

01-15-2006, 02:44 AM

Also why is everyone blaming Autodesk? If I am not mistaken Alias had to accept the deal, right? Or, did Autodesk burst through the doors with automatic weapons and force the deal upon helpless little Alias? No!

Those who are looking to blame someone for all this should blame Alias for being a sell out! Alias sold you out. Despite their growing success. Get over it.

Now THIS is a really good point! :lightbulb

deepcgi

01-15-2006, 07:14 AM

Let me guess. Autodesk immediately begins making Maya files and Max files interchangeable. Next, they incorporate full body IK into Max. The two apps become as homogenous as possible with the exception of bundle deals marketing what used to be Maya Unlimited to the motion picture crowd and Max to the game groups. At this point, core elements of the development teams become redundant and the Maya development group switches to developing product exclusively for film work. The remainder of the development teams of Autodesk/Alias/Kaydara are hardcore fulltime on a next gen app that can encapsulate users of both apps (due to the homogeneity attained earlier) and eliminate all remaining redundancy between Maya and Max. The former three development groups are all vying for their vision to be the one that wins but ultimately, the one that alienates the least number of Maya and Max users wins and the other two are the great ideas that would have been in a more competitive industry. Lastly, the two apps are dragged out for as long as they can bleed them. We hear about this new app in whisper suites at Siggraph 2009. And it looks a whole lot like Modo version 5.5.

loocas

01-15-2006, 09:08 AM

Ooooohhhh spooky... :D

What a catastrophic script you've got there... :thumbsup:

One thing I'm actually really affraid of thou is that Autodesk would make 3ds Max exclusive to games developers and maya exclusive to movie vfx creators.

Even thou, nowdays the line between games and films is so thin it will vanish in the near future, but still, this would kinda make me a bit nervous atm...

deepcgi

01-15-2006, 10:10 AM

I have never implied doom for the industry. I have used Max for many years. This isn't some contest that Max has won and Maya users must not be sore losers about.

Maya's open, node-based architecture is a programmer's dream. The engineers at Autodesk may appreciate it more than the average user. Motion Builder is untouchable. If you want to know what your character animation pipeline will be like, look no further. Don't be surprised if you see more Maya in the next generation than you'd like.

I am saying, however, that marketing will push Maya for film and Max for games. The redundancy between the two apps just won't make sense in a business plan otherwise. With the one possibility that I, and a other daring souls, have raised such hell about the issue that they can't smooth it over.

They will probably just do it with pricing though. For example, if i were Autodesk, i'd add motion builder lite to maya complete and raise its price to less than the price of the two apps independently. Maya Unlimited then becomes a film makers bundle with pro level Kaydara functionality and Autodesk can still claim that they are making Maya affordable. Eventually I'd can Maya Complete altogether and market the two apps for the two separate markets. Testing the waters with bundle pricing deals will tell them if the strategy will work.

Sure the apps will keep getting better and better. In a dictatorship, the streets are often cleaner, the crime rate lower and the public square more beautiful than in a capitalist society.

loocas

01-15-2006, 10:24 AM

I have never implied doom for the industry. I have used Max for many years. This isn't some contest that Max has won and Maya users must not be sore losers about.

Maya's open, node-based architecture is a programmer's dream. The engineers at Autodesk may appreciate it more than the average user. Motion Builder is untouchable. If you want to know what your character animation pipeline will be like, look no further. Don't be surprised if you see more Maya in the next generation than you'd like.

I am saying, however, that marketing will push Maya for film and Max for games. The redundancy between the two apps just won't make sense in a business plan otherwise. With the one possibility that I, and a other daring souls, have raised such hell about the issue that they can't smooth it over.

They will probably just do it with pricing though. For example, if i were Autodesk, i'd add motion builder lite to maya complete and raise its price to less than the price of the two apps independently. Maya Unlimited then becomes a film makers bundle with pro level Kaydara functionality and Autodesk can still claim that they are making Maya affordable. Eventually I'd can Maya Complete altogether and market the two apps for the two separate markets. Testing the waters with bundle pricing deals will tell them if the strategy will work.

- Wasn't it you who was claiming that the switch to another app. won't be possible and therefore Autodesk can't kill/F' up maya/max?!

But basically by making max a games-only dev. tool, you'd force such studios as, for example, blur, blizzard etc... to switch over to maya! And vice versa :curious:

Sure the apps will keep getting better and better. In a dictatorship, the streets are often cleaner, the crime rate lower and the public square more beautiful than in a capitalist society.

- Way too off-topic. Autodesk doesn't represent dictatorship in no way since YOU DON'T HAVE TO use their software! Yeah, you can say whatever you want, but you really DON'T HAVE TO! :rolleyes:

stefan

01-15-2006, 11:40 AM

Everyone talking about MAx for games and Maya for film. But in all Autodesk interviews there are talking about bringing thinks together /reuse data in games - film - vizualizations/. Also unlimited mental ray licensis for backburner does not look like step toward game market.

loocas

01-15-2006, 11:53 AM

Gräck

01-15-2006, 12:17 PM

I don't think Autodesk bought Alias in order to seperate both apps even more between film and games. This wouldn't make sense at all. I think they will try to bring them together, so the work for film can be transferred to game development vice versa. Just look at the resently released King Kong - the game has the same atmosphere as the film. In the future, such characters as King Kong will be used unchanged for both game and film. This will take a few years, but believe me it will happen. And when the time has come, Autodesk will be perfectly prepared for that.

deepcgi

01-15-2006, 12:44 PM

If I must spell it out. I dare you to keep a job in the film or game industry, now, without extensive Autodesk experience. You have no choice. It's not doom and gloom for the industry it is simply unhealthy. All they have to do now is...not screw it up. Appease the user base. Don't lose them. To take a page from Microsoft, occasionally rip off any little guys who get too testy. Yes, I'm sure the streets will be much cleaner now.

Let's all chip in some bucks and buy Mental Images. Maybe we can hold them hostage for 30 days or so.

loocas

01-15-2006, 12:51 PM

I get a feeling that you, deepcgi, have watched too many times The Corporation... ;)

M.E.L.

01-15-2006, 12:51 PM

*snip*

One thing I'm actually really affraid of thou is that Autodesk would make 3ds Max exclusive to games developers and maya exclusive to movie vfx creators.

Even thou, nowdays the line between games and films is so thin it will vanish in the near future, but still, this would kinda make me a bit nervous atm...

I'm not so sure about the Max for games bit and Maya for VFX... that would be a rather dumb move considering that there are countless of games studios out there who are a Maya centric based shop and more making the jump based on project needs as well.

I don't think I'd really agree with you on the point of games and film being so close together at this exact moment. Even though the visuals are taking leaps and bounds with the new engnes coming out such as Source, Unreal 3 and the likes we are still ultimately constrained by bandwidth, processing power and of course media sizes (dvd's etc). Having worked in both fields you begin to see that while the visual quality of games is really coming along, the technology underneath at the core driving things such as character work are still well behind that of film.

Wherein film you can setup a character with a fullblown geometry based (nurbs) muscle simulation on a character, you're not so blessed with the ease or convenience of such work in a games scenario. Things like this are only temporary hampers of course as the technology begins to take shape itself hardware wise and allow developers to really begin to push the limits. Eventually we'll see the two areas begin to merge MUCH closer but I don't really foresee that coming about in the next 3-5 years (beyond the PS3 release looking more towards the 'next' next-gen cycle).

In regards to the whole merging of Softwares, this is not something I'd ever see a merger try and do between two competing softwares considering the absolute vast difference between the two applications. I mean to simply try and take a node-based architecture and a program that's entire UI is built upon it's own scripting language and try to merge it with the likes of Max and vice versa would just be a developers nightmare. I can foresee them simply holding both applications, developing as their userbase needs and being quite happy having a firm grasp on the market share itself. From a production standpoint, to combine the softwares or simply stop development on one would prove disasterous to production facilities who have built entire pipelines around the software (be it Max or Maya based).

On the note of switching applications... it's a very logical and valid point that people are making in this regard and I really fail to see why people are trying to flame others for saying such things. The steps Avid has been taking with XSI have been phenomenal from the standpoint of stability, ease of use (people crossing from other apps) and new development. Personally I find Avid to have really begun to dig their feet into the soil and have poised themselves as a threat to other developers now; I use a mix of Maya/XSI and I even find myself wishing at times that Maya had many of the great features that XSI 5 has. Just seems stupid that people feel the need to flame the others who say "XSI here I come", I guess it's just one of things where you have to use it to understand.

In the end... Maya isn't just going to drop off the face of the earth... even if Autodesk chops it off their development cycle, shops will continue to use it and maintain their pipelines (many studios have development departments dedicated to plugins, new tool R&D/feature R&D and whatnot) so I could easily foresee major houses running with Maya for a few years even after its death (IF that happens).

just my 10 cents.

-s